The hidden agenda of Obama's opposition

Jun 18, 2013

Is the US Tea Party movement a racial backlash against President Obama? A new study by Angie Maxwell from the University of Arkansas, and Wayne Parent from Louisiana State University, assesses whether racial attitudes are contributing to Tea Party membership, and if so, the exact nature of this racial prejudice. Their work is published online in Springer's journal, Race and Social Problems.

The is an American political movement that began in 2009 and which is focused on fiscal conservatism. The first major protests took place in 40 states just 37 days after Obama's inauguration. While public statements by Tea Party organizations claim that the movement is driven by , anecdotal accounts of Tea Party events suggest that the movement may be part of a racially charged, anti-Obama backlash.

In an analysis of national survey data of 1,649 white participants, taken from a poll conducted by , Maxwell and Parent look at the influence of three unique in the establishment of the Tea Party. Specifically, they investigate the role of:

  • – "old-fashioned racism," which exposes persistent attitudes and beliefs
  • symbolic racism – the beliefs of individuals who are often socialized in early life to connect moral conservatism and negative ideas of African Americans
  • ethnocentricism – the view that one's own cultural or ethnic group is superior to others

The authors' work demonstrates that both views on economic policy and disapproval of Obama drive Tea Party membership, as well as favorable attitudes to the Tea Party among non-members. In addition, in both cases, there is evidence of a racially biased, so-called "subterranean agenda" in the anti-Obama movement. Although there are nuances in terms of which particular racial attitudes motivate members versus supporters, both groups are driven by race.

The authors conclude, "Clearly, an African-American, mixed-race, liberal President may trigger symbolic racism and even racial stereotypes among the population at large. But these distinct measures are intricately connected, as is evident in this assessment of Tea Party membership and Tea Party support. What the Tea Party means to its members and what it represents to the public at large may, in fact, not be the same thing."

Explore further: Researchers urge early help for kindergarten students with low self-regulation

More information: Maxwell A & Parent TW (2013). A "Subterranean Agenda"? Racial Attitudes, Presidential Evaluations, and Tea Party Membership. Race and Social Problems. DOI 10.1007/s12552-013-9097-7

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jscroft
2.8 / 5 (26) Jun 18, 2013
Oh for crying out loud.
JamesG
2.8 / 5 (25) Jun 18, 2013
Publish or perish at it's worst.
Stop
1.9 / 5 (23) Jun 18, 2013
Can't type what he's called where I live.
VendicarE
Jun 18, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Q-Star
3.8 / 5 (23) Jun 18, 2013
@physorg,,,

I usually don't criticize the articles ya put up, but I really would like to know how this is physics of any sort? I see that ya categorized it as "Other Sciences", what science would that be? Political analysis of polls is not what I would call science, that's why I have cable TV,,,, for that kind of stuff.
VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (21) Jun 18, 2013
"but I really would like to know how this is physics of any sort?" Q-Star

Perhaps you should look at the top of the page that you are commenting on.

You will note a link titled "Other Sciences".

Noumenon
2.2 / 5 (48) Jun 18, 2013
Pathetic garbage , shame PhysOrg, shame, you've sunk to a new low.
Q-Star
3 / 5 (18) Jun 18, 2013
"but I really would like to know how this is physics of any sort?" Q-Star

Perhaps you should look at the top of the page that you are commenting on.

You will note a link titled "Other Sciences".



I thought I had noted that? Ooops, did I forget to write that in? I will do so now. (Again.)

Other sciences? Political analysis of public opinion polls is what kind of science?
ryggesogn2
2.8 / 5 (34) Jun 18, 2013
The 'agenda' of the tea party is to hold all US public officials accountable to the oath they swore to support and defend the Constitution of the USA.
The tea party must be making progress as we now see the 'race' card being played.
Funny how the 'liberals' tried to destroy the first black Supreme Court judge and how 'liberals' attack any one of 'their' minorities that dares to wander off the plantation.
"And if you dare wander off the liberal plantation, well...they'll make an example of you, pal. Just ask Juan Williams. Or Allen West. Or Justice Clarence Thomas."
http://jerseynut....ing.html
Noumenon
2.2 / 5 (48) Jun 18, 2013
Phys.Org should immediately remove this trash.

There are many prominent black tea party members that reject these ad homenim attacks against the tea party movement.
Noumenon
2.1 / 5 (45) Jun 18, 2013
The above "research" disgustingly posted by Phys.Org, is of course a fraud and pure bias propaganda, engineered to demonize rather than debate. Any idiot can find racists in every group, including the NAACP.

The factual motivations for the Tea Party can be found Here for anyone wishing to see the remarkable contrast with the above fraud.

More and more blacks are switching to the Republican Party, in fact, for reasons so eloquently put forth in such sublime truth, as expressed in the following video by Louisiana Senator Elbert Guillory.
Noumenon
2 / 5 (40) Jun 18, 2013
I urge Phys.Org to watch that 4 minute video and then promptly remove the above article to limit your embarrassment.
ryggesogn2
2.7 / 5 (26) Jun 18, 2013
""You see, in recent history, the Democrat party has created the illusion that their agenda and their policies are what's best for black people," Guillory said. "Somehow it has been forgotten that the Republican party was founded in 1854 as an abolitionist movement, with one simple creed: that slavery is a violation of the rights of man."

The former Democrat explained that Frederick Douglass called Republicans the "party of freedom and progress." He also pointed out that former Republican President Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation and Republicans in Congress wrote the Thirteenth, Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments.

"The Democrats, on the other hand, were the party of Jim Crow," Guillory added. "It was the Democrats who defended the rights of slave owners.""
http://www.thebla...l-video/
Guillory is a black LA state senator.
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (25) Jun 18, 2013
And don't forget about Artur Davis:
"A Southern Democrat defecting to the GOP is not news. A black Southern Democrat defecting to the GOP is pretty big news. A black Southern Democrat who was a member of Congress and a vocal supporter of President Barack Obama warrants a screaming headline."
http://www.thedai...rty.html
Are the African-Americans racist for opposing Obama?
Thomas Sowell, Walter E. Williams, Herman Cain, Allen West, Mia Love (black woman from UT)
"Tea Partier and former Saratoga Springs, Utah mayor Mia Love. If elected, the 36-year-old mother of three will be the GOP's first black female member of Congress.

Read more: http://www.americ...WblutETv
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
http://www.love4utah.com/
freethinking
2.2 / 5 (26) Jun 18, 2013
Phys Org showing once again it is a part of the Hezbollah Progressive movement. Lie, Lie, Lie and lie again.

BTW, it may surprise people, but I'm NOT a member of either the Republicans or the Tea Party.

I just attended a University commencement ceremony and talked to a lot of hard science professors and students, and heard from a lot of Progressive professors and students. I learned once again that hard science departments despises and looks down on the political science departments. They hate the term science even being applied to the political science department. One professor said Political Science is more accurately described as Progressive claptrap.
freethinking
2.2 / 5 (26) Jun 18, 2013
On an interesting note, they consider the Tea Party the opposition to Obama not the Republicans. What does that say about the Republicans????
ValeriaT
2.3 / 5 (16) Jun 18, 2013
Tea party nationalism - this portion of report in particular compiles opinion polling data, documents examples of racist vitriol, etc... What else to add?
VENDItardE
1.9 / 5 (18) Jun 18, 2013
yet more evidence that this site is operated by nothing less than extreme left-wing liberal trolls. and the article being provided by Springer....I would have to assume that would be JERRY? and just because you can place it into a class, like social science, does not make it science, more like quackery.
Thrasymachus
2.4 / 5 (16) Jun 18, 2013
The "science" you're looking for is social and political science. Its methods are similar to economics, as a science, relying on a lot of polling and statistical analysis, with scant room to do meaningful experiments. And this is science, whether you agree with its findings or not.

On a not unrelated topic, Physorg should turn off commenting on the articles they post. I can't recall the last time I saw a useful, educational or otherwise illuminating comment that wasn't a response to some previous commenter's idiocy.
ValeriaT
2.4 / 5 (17) Jun 18, 2013
Physorg should turn off commenting on the articles they post
You're not required to read it - or not? The Internet is full of BS - is this reason for to stop it? I admit, some topics are predestined to get more clueless discussions, than the other ones. The PhysOrg should remain focused to physics-related themes, because the politically motivated articles attract the social forums twaddlers, who will infest even the rest of serious discussions.
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (25) Jun 18, 2013
'Progressives' are attacking conservatives because they are effective and are making progress in spite of nearly all media and many govt agencies trying to stop them.
With science, eventually the facts will out.
Same goes for liberty and tyranny. Eventually the the tyrants will be toppled, but usually after much waste of life and property.
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (25) Jun 18, 2013
The not-so-hidden agenda of physorg, many here and Obama is Marxism:
"On September 11, 2012, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton did what collectivist tyrants do -- and then they did the other thing collectivist tyrants do, namely lie shamelessly about their actions. The facts, the witnesses, and the gaping holes in the administration's lies were all available from the outset. The "free press" pursued none of these, instead actively obfuscating the facts, burying the witnesses, and dutifully disseminating the lies. They wished to save the re-election campaign of inhuman creatures, and in doing so they masked the even deeper horror that full and immediate revelation might have exposed, namely that inhuman brutality is no anomaly among Marxist-progressives, but rather the raison d'être of progressivism itself."
http://www.americ...ion.html
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (25) Jun 18, 2013
"The "Young Pinkies" students drinking from "booze bottles of power" from very left-leaning socialist institutions of Columbia and Harvard Universities are riding in the "Democrat donkey" pulled apple cart, full of govt. dole - money, ridden and lead by Rexford Tugwell, former Economics Professor at Columbia and now Head of the FDR Resettlement Administration to relocate citizens. (Referring to as "Pinkies", the students are a "pink" color inside as their liberal political socialist beliefs are "red communist" beliefs hidden from the outside. Tugwell ran Federal Central Planning with a socialist program that redistributed people onto lands and into housing projects that majorly failed.)

http://peepholepo...ars.html
History repeats when the 'progressives' won't teach history.
Check out the cartoon from 1934.
Noumenon
2.1 / 5 (38) Jun 18, 2013
Tea party nationalism - this portion of report in particular compiles opinion polling data, documents examples of racist vitriol, etc


Every group has racist, for example, democrats, NAACP members, people who wash cars for a living, physics cranks, muslims, etc.

The question is what are the principals and policies that the given group advocates. The Tea Party does not advocate racism, though you may find racists in that group, ....as you may in any other group.

It's really is not difficult to design such a poll based "study" to vilify any group one sets out to. That is in fact what is at the core of racism to begin with,... finding a few examples to justify applying bigotry to the whole of the identifiable group.

It is a means of preventing principled debates, by creating caricatures to feed to the uninitiated, to supplant own opinion . Clowns like Thrasymachus even wish Phys.Org didn't have comments, so that the corrupt slander goes unchallenged.
ValeriaT
2.1 / 5 (18) Jun 18, 2013
Every group has racist, for example, democrats
Of course, but we are talking here about statistics, higher-than-average numbers.
Noumenon
2 / 5 (37) Jun 18, 2013
Every group has racist, for example, democrats
Of course, but we are talking here about statistics, higher-than-average numbers.


Where did you get your numbers, 'higher-than-average'? What questions were asked, and were they loaded? The people conducting the "study" already don't like the tea party, and the people buying into the fraud, already don't like the tea party. Do you not understand bias, which invalids such a "study" as propaganda.
freethinking
2.8 / 5 (29) Jun 18, 2013
First off according the Hezbollah Progressives, you are a racist IF any ONE of the following apply to YOU:
Didn't vote for Obama,
Didn't like Obama selling guns to drug lords (fast and furious),
Didn't like Obama giving tax payer money to his friends,
Didn't like Obama living like a King,
Didn't like Obama forcing Obama care on Americans,
Didn't like Obama bankrupting America,
Didn't like Obama promoting Gay Marriage,
Didn't like Obama destroying the economy of America,
Didn't like Obama blaming a video on the killing of American diplomats,
Didn't like Obama using the DOJ against reporters digging into Obama scandals,
Didn't like Obama using the IRS to go after his enemies,
In short if you are not a yes man to Obama, you are a racist.

Using that definition makes everyone in the tea party, according the Progressives, a racists.
ValeriaT
2.4 / 5 (14) Jun 18, 2013
I don't like any extremists. Tea Party Nationalism: A Critical Examination of the Tea Party Movement
and the Size, Scope, and Focus of Its National Factions. Why not to find similar a study about Democrats?
Obama bankrupting America, Obama destroying the economy of America
Everyone's is still remembering the crisis at the end of Bush's government... Do you think, that the current economical situation of USA is worse than that?
freethinking
2.1 / 5 (22) Jun 18, 2013
How about doing a study why Progressives have to make everything about Obama? Before the commencement ceremony many in the hard science department were taking bets how many times Obama's name would come up, and how many times a Progressive cause would be mentioned. (Thirteen times was my count)

Just like Homosexual Activists need to make everything about sex, Hezbollah Progressives need to make everything about Obama and Progressive Causes.
geokstr
2.7 / 5 (23) Jun 18, 2013
@physorg,,,

I usually don't criticize the articles ya put up, but I really would like to know how this is physics of any sort? I see that ya categorized it as "Other Sciences", what science would that be? Political analysis of polls is not what I would call science, that's why I have cable TV,,,, for that kind of stuff.

It's called Marxist Science.
ValeriaT
2 / 5 (21) Jun 18, 2013
Republican & Tea Party Racism

Most people who vote Republican no doubt vote out of belief that the Republican Party is the right choice and racist sentiments likely have absolutely no bearing on their decisions. However, it is well established that the Republican Party began catering to racist sentiments in the late 1960′s using tactics that still appear to be in practice.

ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (23) Jun 18, 2013
I don't like any extremists.

How much evil, how much tyranny is acceptable?

"extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

And from A. Rand, when you compromise with evil, evil wins.
djr
3.3 / 5 (14) Jun 18, 2013
yet more evidence that this site is operated by nothing less than extreme left-wing liberal trolls.

I have a theory about that. I think Physorg is run by some pretty smart young folks - who know that clicks earn them $$'s. So they bait the right wing trolls - who contact all their buddies in the echo chambers - and they all come over here and protest about the evil liberals - and put money in the pockets of the smart youg kids - who don't really give a shit about political affiliation - just clicks and $$'s. Just a theory. Of course it could be that the Physorg folks just love science - Nah - that is too simple....
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (25) Jun 18, 2013
Republican Party began catering to racist sentiments in the late 1960′s

If not for Republicans in the 60s, the Civil Rights Act would not have passed.

Would it have been racist to oppose the Black Panthers in the 60s?
Is it racist for a black AG to refuse to prosecute voter intimidation by Black Panthers in Philly?
http://www.washin...880.html
What would have happened if any white person tried to intimidate any black voter?
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (22) Jun 18, 2013
How racist!

"Join Tea Party Patriots and many others for an Audit the IRS rally on the west lawn of the Capitol in Washington, DC on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 at high noon."
http://www.breitb...inst-IRS

Of course Obama is not the first president to use the IRS to intimidate opponents. Nixon, who was impeached did, Clinton, who was impeached, did.
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (36) Jun 18, 2013
The above "study" is clearly trying to supplant rational ideological reasons for being in 'opposition to Obama' with emotionally charged caricatures. Spoon fed propaganda to those who would rather hate the tea party than understand their positions.

How did they define what is "racist". Did they poll the general population and subtract that number? Did they do a like poll in the black community where racism towards white exists, and subtract that number and compare to the general population? What tea party policies attract racists in particular, and wouldn't it be necessary to answer that question to justify the claim that tea party members are in particular racist.

Fraud, bias, and corruption of the worse kind.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (26) Jun 18, 2013
The not-so-hidden agenda of this article and physorg, prop up Obama:

"Last month only 37% believed the White House ordered the IRS to target conservative groups. Today, however, almost half the country -- 47% believe the same. Only 49% disagree.

Obama has lost Independents on this issue in a major way. Last month 36% believed the White House was behind the IRS harassment of Obama's political opponents. Today, that number has jumped 14 points to 50%. "
http://www.breitb...ea-Party
Noumenon
1.7 / 5 (34) Jun 18, 2013
I have a theory about that. I think Physorg is run by some pretty smart young folks - who know that clicks earn them $$'s. So they bait the right wing trolls - who contact all their buddies in the echo chambers - and they all come over here and protest about the evil liberals - and put money in the pockets of the smart youg kids - who don't really give a shit about political affiliation - just clicks and $$'s. Just a theory. Of course it could be that the Physorg folks just love science - Nah - that is too simple....


So they either have zero integrity or don't even know that the above can't possibly be science on account of its obvious bias.

More, likely who ever posted this is definity young as you say, mentally immature in fact, and likely a know-nothing OWS type.
geokstr
2.8 / 5 (23) Jun 18, 2013
Why not to find similar a study about Democrats

Because it's already just soooooo obvious that Tea Parties are hotbeds of filth, crime, vandalism, rioting, defecation in public, intimidation, rape, murder, destruction of private and public property, arson, drug using and dealing, assault, obstruction of police, and even associated with bombmakers and perps that shoot at the White House.

Oh, wait...

That's the Occupiers, the real fake "grass roots" protests organized and promoted by Communists, Socialists, the SEIU, and Soros funded leftling groups. This list is only through 12/11:
http://www.breitb...--So-Far

Please provide a similar list of transgressions by the Tea Parties (leaving rally sites cleaner than when they got there don't count). Show your work.

Occupy was enthusiastically embraced by Obama himself and the Democratic Party, and the "unbiased" media while the TP were trashed without evidence.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (15) Jun 18, 2013
"Pathetic garbage" - NumenTard

NumenTard is correct on this one.

TeaPublicans are pathetic garbage

Filth.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (12) Jun 18, 2013
"Political analysis of public opinion polls is what kind of science?" - QTard

Political and social science.
rwinners
2.1 / 5 (14) Jun 18, 2013
Garbonza beans. Why separate the Tea Party from the balance of the Republicans? I'm quite sure that the racial prejudice exhibited bye the TP's is felt by a great many more Reps.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (12) Jun 18, 2013
"The 'agenda' of the tea party is to hold all US public officials accountable to the oath they swore to support and defend the Constitution of the USA." - RyggTard

Morons like RyggTard feel that their own personal interpretation of the U.S. constitution is what their elected leaders must uphold.

It never occurs to mental dreks like RyggTard that they are violating their own constitution by ignoring the fact that the U.S. constitution assigns to the U.S. supreme court the soul authority to decide what is and is not constitutional.

If RyggTard and the other low life Conservatives in America were really interested in the U.S. constitution they would accept the authority and decisions of the Supreme Court in the interpretation of the constitution.

But they have no interest in that despite the fact that they honor their constitution.

What they are really interested in is overturning the vast majority of constitutional law which is impeding their greed, deceit and corruption.
VendicarE
2.9 / 5 (12) Jun 18, 2013
"The tea party must be making progress as we now see the 'race' card being played." -
RyggTard

If you define "progress" as the poster boy of the TeaPublican non-party Rand Paul coming out for open borders for all - in direct opposition to TeaPartyDoctrine, then ya, I guess that is progress.

But that claim of progress would be a lie wouldn't it?

The TeaPublican non-party consists primarily of angry old white men who have done their best to destroy their own nation and are looking for someone else to blame it on.

Filth.

VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (13) Jun 18, 2013
"Phys.Org should immediately remove this trash." - NumenTard

Better to remove the account of NumenTard, RyggTard and the other low life, anti-science vermin who are here.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (22) Jun 18, 2013
Another indication of the success of the tea parties is the irrationality of the 'progressive' response to tea parties.
Instead of trying to defend their tyrannical socialist policies, they call people names.
Another political physorg article tries to indict businesses for eliminating their competition. We see here, now, how weak and inept 'progressives' are at defending socialist tyranny as they have been protected from competition for decades.
VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (13) Jun 18, 2013
Young voters call GOP 'closed-minded,' 'racist,' and 'solely for the rich'

http://tv.msnbc.c...he-rich/

Here is a Republican who in a moment of clarity and honesty proclaims that his own party is full of racists.

"My party, unfortunately, is the bastion of those people not all of them, but most of them who are still basing their decisions on race. Let me be candid, my party is full of racists."

http://www.youtub...sZ_4fZoU
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (12) Jun 18, 2013
"The not-so-hidden agenda of this article and physorg, prop up Obama:" - RyggTard

Ya, the entire world is involved in an evil conspiracy to keep you Republicans down.

Have you considered why your kind of filth are near universally hated?

Do you think it could be your constant stream of lying, distortions and whining?

VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (11) Jun 18, 2013
"Another indication of the success of the tea parties is the irrationality of the 'progressive' response to tea parties. " - RyggTard

http://brotherpea...blem.jpg

http://www.blueri...ism5.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fnsOmb0Fvog/SegIYF_3X0I/AAAAAAAABWk/kRGybixxDiU/s400/pa-tea-party-obama.jpg

http://www.mother...bama.jpg

http://img.wonket...slin.jpg

http://cdn-ugc.ca...19228094

VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (11) Jun 18, 2013
"Instead of trying to defend their tyrannical socialist policies, they call people names." -
RyggTard

Health Care for all Americans = Tyrannical socialist policies according to RyggTard.

Moronic Filth.

VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (11) Jun 18, 2013
"Join Tea Party Patriots and many others for an Audit the IRS rally on the west lawn of the Capitol in Washington, DC on Wednesday, June 19, 2013 at high noon." - RyggTard

Republicans are so stupid, that the vast majority of them don't know that the interest it charges on loans to banks is returned to the Federal Government's, General Account.

Mindless... Morons....

There is stupid and then there is Republican stupid.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (10) Jun 18, 2013
"If not for Republicans in the 60s, the Civil Rights Act would not have passed." - RyggTard

Very true.

I think it is a very good thing that over the decades that followed, Racism has become concentrated in the Republican party.
MR166
2.9 / 5 (19) Jun 18, 2013
Yes Vendicar, the Democrats must love the impoverished since it is their policies that have created a system that keeps them from escaping from poverty.
VendicarE
2.1 / 5 (11) Jun 18, 2013
MR166. It has for decades now been the goal of the Repubican party to "starve the beast" of government and produce as much poverty as possible through selling American Jobs to third world nations.

If poverty was a concern of Republicans then you would think they would have spend the 4 trillion that Bush's war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan is costing America, and would have spent it on converting the U.S. power grid to solar rather than keeping the country dependent upon filthy coal, and dirty oil.

There have never in the history of mankind, been a dumber more corrupt group of Treasonous vermin than Modern Day Republicans.

VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (11) Jun 18, 2013
Anti-Science Republicans try again to destroy NASA and American Science....

If the Republican-led House Subcommittee on Space has its way, NASA's proposed asteroid-retrieval mission will be killed, the agency's budget will be capped for the next two years at about 5 per cent less than last year's, and NASA's Earth observation efforts will be cut back by 30 percent.

Filth...

http://www.thereg...mission/
Dr_Who
3 / 5 (14) Jun 18, 2013
Maybe the tea party is just a bunch of people, exactly like me, trying to stop the trillions and trillions our government is over spending and has nothing to do with anyone's race, sex, or religion. But it never hurts to try and marginalize a political enemy's valid arguments with an idiotic accusation as is done here.
djr
3.8 / 5 (10) Jun 19, 2013
"has nothing to do with anyone's race, sex, or religion."

So there would be no reason to feel there is a racist component to the tea party - correct Dr Who????

http://www.mother...st-thing
VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (13) Jun 19, 2013
"Maybe the tea party is just a bunch of people, exactly like me, trying to stop the trillions and trillions our government is over spending" - DrTard

Where were you TeaTards when Bush was spending America into the ground while cutting the bank regulations and oversite which caused the greatest economic failure in U.S. history since the great depression?

Oh. ya... You were cheering bush on.

The simple fact of the matter is that without the trillions in "overspending" by the Obama administration, America would be 4 years into a decades long grand economic depression that would have dwarfed the economic pain felt by Americans over the last few years.

It has been real fun seeing TeaTard Morons demanding that cuts on the order of "trillions" be made overnight.

Those TeaPublican Morons aren't smart enough to realize that their proposed cuts would have raised U.S. unemployment rates to the 40 precent range, and truly bankupted the nation.

Perhaps the time has come to require some CONT
VendicarE
2.4 / 5 (14) Jun 19, 2013
cont...

level of intellectual competence before someone is permotted to vote.

Americans need to find a way to import more mexicans and export the filthy TeaPublicans in their place.

The country would be a vastly smarter place for it.

alfie_null
3.7 / 5 (12) Jun 19, 2013
Wow. Poking a bear with a stick! All these outraged comments. Interesting that most are directed at phys.org, rather than the study itself. I've got to wonder if these critics don't like the alleged bias of the site, why don't they just leave. Go somewhere else. Please.

You guys can set up your own site. Discuss how the climate isn't changing, the evils of fetal stem cells, how stupid it is to try to develop non-petro energy alternatives (perhaps how endless our supply of oil is), how young the Earth is and how man got along with the dinosaurs. Who knows, maybe how flat the Earth is and how fast the Universe revolves around it. And you can engage in all the trash talking you like.

To reiterate what was stated earlier, this article is social science. And social science is a science. That you don't like what these researchers are reporting is apparent. Also evident that you don't know how to effectively refute.
antialias_physorg
4 / 5 (12) Jun 19, 2013
Interesting that most are directed at phys.org, rather than the study itself.

If you can't refute the message - kill the messenger.
It's been the standard procedure for despots and believers since the dawn of time.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (22) Jun 19, 2013
"has nothing to do with anyone's race, sex, or religion."

So there would be no reason to feel there is a racist component to the tea party - correct Dr Who????


No reason to 'feel'?
What does 'feel' have to do with anything?
Significant leaders and supporters of tea parties are individuals. Some are women. Some are black women. Some are men. Some are black men....
All agree that the govt is too big and takes too much of every individual's liberty.
The 'progressives' are the ones selling snake oil socialism and need to divide individuals into classes to redirect their attention from the tyrants before them.
Tea parties are stating the obvious, " The tyrants have no clothes, have no substance and are destroying liberty and prosperity to keep themselves in power."
MR166
2.9 / 5 (19) Jun 19, 2013
Vendicar how many riots and how much poverty will it take for you to understand that big government is the problem not the solution. As every government grows stronger it rewards it's innermost circle at the expense of the welfare of the periphery. The founding fathers of the US understood this well and did everything they could to limit the power of the central government.
Noumenon
2 / 5 (37) Jun 19, 2013
I've got to wonder if these critics don't like the alleged bias of the site, why don't they just leave. Go somewhere else. Please.


This is a comment section. If Phys.Org does not want debates or counter opinion presented they can remove it. You're at least the 2nd person complaining that others are posting counter arguments and opinion, despite having provided yours.

If you knew anything about science, you would understand that such a study as presented above cannot possibly be unbiased, because obviously the very motive behind conducting the study in the first place, presumes a negative attitude toward the tea party.

It is yet another unprincipled ad homenim attack by the left who are trying to persuade their base not to even attempt to understand the tea party ideas. It's a old tactic to marginalize a group to stop their base from being influenced by principled ideas. They know they can't argue ideas, so they slander.
antialias_physorg
3.8 / 5 (10) Jun 19, 2013
If Phys.Org does not want debates or counter opinion presented they can remove it.

Physorg doesn't moderate or even read the comments section (and hasn't for at least a year or so). Whining in the comments section about bias, typing errors or whatnot on behalf of physorg is like shouting in deep space - a waste of everybody's time.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (24) Jun 19, 2013
It is yet another unprincipled ad homenim attack by the left who are trying to persuade their base not to even attempt to understand the tea party ideas. It's a old tactic to marginalize a group to stop their base from being influenced by principled ideas. They know they can't argue ideas, so they slander.


If those in science are not on the left, why are they so silent?
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (35) Jun 19, 2013
If Phys.Org does not want debates or counter opinion presented they can remove it.

Physorg doesn't moderate or even read the comments section (and hasn't for at least a year or so). Whining in the comments section about bias, typing errors or whatnot on behalf of physorg is like shouting in deep space - a waste of everybody's time.


I couldn't care less if Phys.Org reads or doesn't read the comment section. The comment section exists. When crankery and fraud is posted it gets challenged ,... just like you have done so to johanfprins and others. That the tea party organized as a backlash against a black president is complete stupidity and fraudulent slander.
Noumenon
1.6 / 5 (33) Jun 19, 2013
Interesting that most are directed at phys.org, rather than the study itself.


What study are you referring to? Where is it? The only link that I see redirects one to spend $39.95 to buy it. The above write up is entirely devoid facts.
plaasjaapie
2.1 / 5 (14) Jun 19, 2013
So, PhysOrg has decided that political hit pieces constitute "science" have they? Not surprising.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (17) Jun 19, 2013
Of course its racial. Why do you think he was put into that position?

Obama had to take the responsibility for some very unpopular, very socialist, but nevertheless very essential Measures to prevent the total collapse of western economies.

Moderates would feel guilty for blaming a black man because it would make them look like bigots. Extremists who blamed him would naturally look like bigots for doing so.

It was a brilliant maneuver for a number of reasons, not the least of which being the comfort level of the latest influx of pragmatic, ambitious moslem immigrants who would best complement this melting pot of ours.

I always find the Methods of Those who Run Things breathtaking. But what would you expect from Leaders who get to choose from the very most capable of each generation to assist Them in Their Work?

Their Mission is survival and preservation of the species in its best form. Why would we expect anything less than Excellence?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (17) Jun 19, 2013
Interesting that most are directed at phys.org, rather than the study itself.


What study are you referring to? Where is it? The only link that I see redirects one to spend $39.95 to buy it. The above write up is entirely devoid facts.
What, are you complaining about capitalism at work? Dont you think that people need to be PAID for the work they do?

Intellectual property does have value you know.
Noumenon
1.7 / 5 (34) Jun 19, 2013
"I pray that Hillary decides to run for Pres. Would [be] most qualified person in modern history" - Angie Maxwell, one of the above propaganda authors.

Kinda of way over the top sentiment. If Hillary wasn't the wife of a former president, she would be bagging groceries.

She is clearly a "left winger" and has an aversion to the Tea Party, given some of her tweets,.. and thus is especially unqualified for conducting any meaningful 'disinterested' study of that group. Fraud.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (22) Jun 19, 2013
Hillary is praised by 'progressive' for marrying into power and given a pass for failing with that power.
Palin earned her elected positions and is attacked by 'progressives'.
The NAGS (national association of gals) , like the NAALCP (national association for the advancement of 'liberal' colored people) only accept 'liberals' and if a woman or black is not a 'liberal', they are heretics and must be pilloried.
antialias_physorg
3.5 / 5 (13) Jun 19, 2013
The comment section exists. When crankery and fraud is posted it gets challenged ,...

Yup, and I hereby challenge you to support your claim of bias that you think is part of this paper.

They asked a legitimate question and made a legitimate survey and then presented the results. Whether you like them or not doesn't matter. But saying they're biased just because you don't like the results isn't terribly convincing.
ValeriaT
1.6 / 5 (13) Jun 19, 2013
If you can't refute the message - kill the messenger. It's been the standard procedure for despots and believers since the dawn of time.
It would sound nice, if only you wouldn't act here many years in the same way regarding the messages about AWT and/or another ideas violating established paradigm.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (24) Jun 19, 2013
""When will there be an honest conversation about poverty and racism and inequality that hinders the delivery of an education product in our school system? When will we address the fact that rich white people think they know what's in the best interest of children of African-Americans and Latinos, no matter what the parents' income or education level?" she asked."
http://chicago.cb...roblems/
Chicago, whose mayor used to work for Obama, and is Obama's hometown is 'liberal' and according to the 'liberal' Chicago teacher's union president, racist.
Inspector Spacetime
1.7 / 5 (11) Jun 19, 2013
They had better not get rid of the comments section. I will be very pissed off if they do. Hate is fun.
Inspector Spacetime
1 / 5 (7) Jun 19, 2013
.
Noumenon
1.5 / 5 (33) Jun 19, 2013
Interesting that most are directed at phys.org, rather than the study itself.


What study are you referring to? Where is it? The only link that I see redirects one to spend $39.95 to buy it. The above write up is entirely devoid facts.
What, are you complaining about capitalism at work? Dont you think that people need to be PAID for the work they do?

Intellectual property does have value you know.


I'm not complaining that they are selling it. Please read the post I was responding to.
Noumenon
1.7 / 5 (34) Jun 19, 2013
The comment section exists. When crankery and fraud is posted it gets challenged ,...


Yup, and I hereby challenge you to support your claim of bias that you think is part of this paper.


I already did that above, pay attention. The fact that the authors are left wing and politically motivated, de facto means they are biased (toward their political opposition, conservatives). i.e. inclination of temperaments or outlook to present or hold a partial perspective at the expense of possibly equally valid alternatives in reference to objects, people, or groups,... lacking in a neutral point of view.

The authors are not social scientists. They are left wing political scientists and experts at propaganda.
Noumenon
1.7 / 5 (34) Jun 19, 2013
IOW, they a-priori disliked the Tea Party before conducting their "research". They wrapped a "study" around their preexisting aversion to that group.

If they linked a specific policy acknowledge as advocated by the tea party with a clearly defined form of racism, then they can make a case. Just doing loaded question polls and interpreting those results subjectivity as to what is racist, is meaningless non-sense.,.. and is just going through the motions so they can say " the tea party are just a bunch of racists, don't listen to them".

If anyone knows anything about American politics , the charge of racism is thrown around at the drop of a hat in most cases without any rational justification. The charge only works as a political weapon against those who are not racist and don't want to be known as such.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (16) Jun 19, 2013
I'm not complaining that they are selling it. Please read the post I was responding to.
I did. And it is not clear if you are criticizing physorg for not providing you with facts for free that you should rightfully be paying for.
VendicarE
2.9 / 5 (12) Jun 19, 2013
"Chicago, whose mayor used to work for Obama, and is Obama's hometown is 'liberal' and according to the 'liberal' Chicago teacher's union president, racist." - RyggTard

As usual. RyggTard is reading words that don't exist. He has a significant problem with honesty.

On the other hand...

Young voters call GOP 'closed-minded,' 'racist,' and 'solely for the rich'

http://tv.msnbc.c...he-rich/

Republican admits that his party is full of racists....

http://www.youtub...sZ_4fZoU
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (10) Jun 19, 2013
What the ConservaTards are really whining about here is the fact that Reality and Science have a strong Liberal Bias.

After they were trounced in the last Federal Election you would think that they would realize how perverted, distorted and unreal their view of the world really is.

But Conservatives are incapable of learning.

RyggTard is a particularly effective example of Conservative idiocy.

VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (11) Jun 19, 2013
"I'm not complaining that they are selling it." - NumenTard

And now the dishonest Conservative whiner denies that he was whining.

Filth.

VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (11) Jun 19, 2013
"The fact that the authors are left wing and politically motivated" - NumenTard

The fact that NumenTard is a space alien bent on the Earth's destruction is proof that he is a space alien bent on the destruction of the world.

When RepubliTards aren't just lying they are assuming what they wish to be true and then proclaiming it as such.

He is such a Moron.

That is why they need to audit the corruption at the corrupt Federal Reserve.

Morons.
freethinking
2 / 5 (24) Jun 19, 2013
VD, you and other Hezbollah Progressives do nothing but lie. I was just at a university commencement last week. Most people in the real science, math, physics, chemistry, engineering, etc. are conservatives. Probably the reason more conservatives are in the real science is that it is hard and it does require discipline.
Almost all people in the soft (easy - lazy science according to the Hard Science Professors) are lazy progressives.
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (24) Jun 19, 2013
Question. Which group of protestors would you want to be in front of your business you own or residence.
1. Gay rights protestors. (you'll see nudity and sex, have condoms spread around, and your place is left trashed)
2. OWS. (You'll see nudity and sex, people defecating on cars, and your place is left trashed)
3. Union protest. (Violence and your place will be trashed)
4. Environmentalist group. (Boring however your place will be trashed.)
5. TEA Party Protestors. (Boring, however the place will be cleaner than when they started.)

Name ANY progressive protest group that leaves the place they protest in better shape than when they find it..... waiting..... My son has has asked me why environmentalist when they protest leave the place trashed.....
Noumenon
1.5 / 5 (32) Jun 19, 2013
Maybe I'll do a study and conclude that groups 1 - 4 are gross and smelly. Shouldn't be difficult to scrap up enough facts.

"The fact that the authors are left wing and politically motivated" - My Superior Noumenon


The fact that NumenTard is a space alien bent on the Earth's destruction is proof that he is a space alien bent on the destruction of the world.


Umm nice logic there, LOL. That propaganda was specially brewed for spooning feeding mushheads like you. Are you full yet?

Only a mush headed liberal would make use of the logic of bigotry to insinuate bigotry.
freethinking
2.4 / 5 (23) Jun 19, 2013
Noum, perhaps we can convince a university to fund a study into:
Which groups are more violent, Progressives groups or Conservative groups.
Which groups have more terrorists in them, Progressive groups or Conservative groups.
Which groups trash protest areas more, Progressive groups or Conservative groups.
Which groups have more rapes, assaults, and crime during a protest, Progressive groups or Conservative groups.
Which groups tolerate criminals and criminal activities, Progressive groups or Conservative groups.
freethinking
2.2 / 5 (23) Jun 19, 2013
How about a study, Which is safer, for Obama to be in a middle of a Tea Party rally, or Sara Palin to be in a middle of a OWS demonstration?
I would bet Obama would be safer without the Secret Service in a NRA rally than Sara Palin in an anti gun rally.
I would bet Obama would be safer without the Secret Service in a Pro-Life rally than Sara Palin at a Planned Parenthood rally.

VD, If I needed to personally protect Obama, give him sanctuary in my home, or give my life to save Obama I would, even though I believe he is the worst president in modern history. VD or any Progressive on this board, Would you give your life for Bush or Palin?

How many people truly believe that VD or most Hezbollah Progressives are caring and loving individuals?
freethinking
2 / 5 (21) Jun 19, 2013
VD or any Hezbollah Progressives on this board. I issue you a challenge. If you go to a gay rights rally and hold up a sign saying I support Traditional Marriage, or go to a planned parenthood rally and hold up a sign saying I am Pro-Life, if you are beaten up, spit on, shot, ruffed up in anyway you will admit on this board that Progressives are haters.

I'll go to a traditional marriage rally with a sign saying I support Gay Marriage, or I'll go to a Pro-Life rally and hold up a sign saying I'm Pro-Choice. Heck, I'll even go to a NRA meeting and say I support gun confiscation. If I'm verbally assaulted, beaten up, spit on, or ruffed up in anyway I'll come on this board and say conservatives are haters.

Which groups are move civil? Progressives keep saying Conservative are dangerous... VD or any Progressives, will take me up on this challenge??????

ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (22) Jun 19, 2013
"Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach (R) compared the tactics used by hundreds of protesters who marched on his home over the weekend to "KKK-type of intimidation" on the Glenn Beck radio program Tuesday.

Targeted for his work on combating illegal immigration, Kobach has certainly faced opposition in the past, but it has always been in public locations. Now, he says, "the left has crossed a line" by surrounding his home."
http://www.thebla...an-laws/
"The Ku Klux Klan was founded Dec. 24, 1865 by Democrats for the sole purpose of terrorizing Republicans. They lynched 3,466 Blacks and 1,297 Whites. It was not just about race, it was about intimidation and control. "
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (20) Jun 19, 2013
"that those possessing altruism bias would be most strongly biased to object to the very concept of altruism bias. Research has shown the near impossibility of reaching biased individuals using rational approaches, no matter their level of education or intelligence; such attempts can be likened to squaring the circle. "
http://reason.com...o-hell-r
freethinking
2 / 5 (20) Jun 19, 2013
Rygg, the left has no objection to using intimidation, threats, and even violence, which is why I call them Hezbollah Progressives. This term was coined by a Persian Friend of mine who hates the Hezbollah's and sees their tactics being used by the Progressives here in the USA.

When groups use terror tactics, call them what they are.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (22) Jun 19, 2013
left has no objection to using intimidation, threats, and even violence


"The US government's secret seizure of Associated Press phone records had a "chilling effect" on newsgathering by the agency and other news organizations, AP's top executive said Wednesday."
http://www.france...chilling
JohnGee
2.6 / 5 (14) Jun 19, 2013
If Hillary wasn't the wife of a former president, she would be bagging groceries.

She's an attorney and you're seemingly a sexist.
kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (14) Jun 19, 2013
Rygg, the left has no objection to using intimidation, threats, and even violence, which is why I call them Hezbollah Progressives. This term was coined by a Persian Friend of mine who hates the Hezbollah's and sees their tactics being used by the Progressives here in the USA.

When groups use terror tactics, call them what they are.
Given you see angels and reanimated zombie Jews everywhere, please pardon my utter disregard for your friend's analogy along with other religious tripe
Noumenon
1.6 / 5 (34) Jun 19, 2013
If Hillary wasn't the wife of a former president, she would be bagging groceries.

She's an attorney and you're seemingly a sexist.


Now you see, straight off you feel the need to come to the defense of whom you unconsciously view as inferior, women. This is typical of the far left. Their racism is likewise subliminal and implicite in their perpetual victimhood scam.

I was exaggerating to say that she would be entirely unknown to anyone and that she has accomplished nothing but by virtue of being Mrs. Clinton, much less being "the most qualified in modern times". Even she admits this fact by not promptly divorcing Bill after X'th affair. Even less than G.W.Bush in fact.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (21) Jun 20, 2013
If Hillary wasn't the wife of a former president, she would be bagging groceries.

She's an attorney and you're seemingly a sexist.

Where is she licensed to practice?
And aren't lawyers supposed to be truthful? As Secretary of State she, and others, lied and continue to lie about Libya.
kochevnik
2.3 / 5 (15) Jun 20, 2013
And aren't lawyers supposed to be truthful? As Secretary of State she, and others, lied and continue to lie about Libya.
They're all working for the banksters, rygg. If a democrat is employed by Raytheon, do you think he will object to doing his daily work based on principle? Remember the banksters are too big to fail, and prosecuting their crimes would "THREATEN THE ECONOMY"
freethinking
2.2 / 5 (23) Jun 20, 2013
Any progressives agree with this?
http://www.france...chilling

If Bush did this, the media (aka the propaganda arm of the Progressives), would be screaming at the top of their lungs, Progressives would be marching in the streets.

Hezbollah Progressives are nothing but Hypocrites.
Howhot
2.8 / 5 (11) Jun 21, 2013
Freethunk askes
...the media (aka the propaganda arm of the Progressives),
Umm. No. You have a very screwed up notion of what propaganda is. Progressives tend to lay out fact and reason and argue within bounds of facts and reason, which is not propaganda. However, the rightwing, conservative, teaparty, wingnuts, fruits and cakes that spew junk like you do, ARE propagandists. Which is why you are hear posting, isn't it? To spread your propaganda?
VendicarE
3 / 5 (12) Jun 21, 2013
The Tardieboy Wingnuts of the TeaPublican party were shocked by the last U.S. presidential election.

They had been telling themselves for over a year that they had the election won by a landslide.

When election day came, they LOST by a landslide.

They had been lying to themselves all along.

FreeTards are like that. They insist that they are free to create their own facts.

The universe holds another opinion on that matter, and that is why to them, Science and reality has a strong Liberal Bias.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (12) Jun 21, 2013
"Any progressives agree with this? " - FreeTard

"The AP has said US authorities appeared to have sought out the records as part of a criminal investigation into leaked information contained in a May 2012 AP story about a foiled terror plot." - FreeTard's own link

I have no problem with the U.S. government investigation a crime.

Why do you FreeTard?

Perhaps you should turn your attention to laws that criminalize communication.

You know, like the laws you supported last month that make it a crime to communicate industrial trade secrets,,,,

freethinking
2.3 / 5 (25) Jun 21, 2013
VD, your a hypocrite just like other Hezbollah progressives. You are seriously asking if I object to investigating crimes. Lets see, I stand for truth, honor, integrity, that all people are treated equally, for the constitution, and I demand it of my leaders. Hezbollah progressive such as you have no issues with lying, cheating, intimidation, perversion, attacking honest people, attacking the constitution, and your leaders have problem defining what is is, leave women to die, have no issues sending private part pictures to strangers, admitting to beating women, taking dope, appointing pedophiles to head the Department of Education, giving guns to drug runners, planting bombs that kill people then making them professors, have no mercy of babies born alive after failed abortion, indeed have no issues sticking scissors into the brains of a breathing half born child, and on and on it goes.

VD, Your are a hypocrite
ryggesogn2
2.7 / 5 (24) Jun 21, 2013
Progressives tend to lay out fact and reason and argue within bounds of facts and reason

When? Where?
I have seen no facts or reason offered by 'progressives' here or on any of their propaganda outlets.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (12) Jun 21, 2013
"VD, your a hypocrite just like other Hezbollah progressives. " - FreeTard

You just have to read the first sentence and you know hat the person writing is a mentally ill TeaPublican.

you just can't fake that kind of brain death.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (12) Jun 21, 2013
"When? Where? " - RyggTard

Almost all the time, and all most everywhere.

You just don't notice because you spend your days in a ConservaTard bubble inhaling your own feces.
freethinking
1.8 / 5 (21) Jun 21, 2013
Rygg, is it because VD is a typical Hezbollah Progressive that he is obsessed about excrement or is there other reasons?
anti-geoengineering
1.5 / 5 (15) Jun 21, 2013
Ovomit is the biggest fraud ever. Kenyan-born Barry Soetoro/Obama has destroyed the economy and the reputation of our country on purpose. Hang him high...
ryggesogn2
2.7 / 5 (24) Jun 21, 2013
Rygg, is it because VD is a typical Hezbollah Progressive that he is obsessed about excrement or is there other reasons?

I ignore VD.
This piece describes 'liberals' quite well:

http://www.jewish...3/06/20/
kochevnik
2.2 / 5 (13) Jun 21, 2013
Progressives tend to lay out fact and reason and argue within bounds of facts and reason

When? Where?
I have seen no facts or reason offered by 'progressives' here or on any of their propaganda outlets.
Physorg is a "propaganda outlet" now, ryggie?
MR166
2.4 / 5 (20) Jun 21, 2013
"Physorg is a "propaganda outlet" now, ryggie?

Kochevnik you have to understand that propaganda is not so much what you print as much as it is what you don't print. If you heavily favor one side of a agenda you become a "propaganda outlet" and cease being a news outlet.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (21) Jun 21, 2013
"Better off stateless:
Somalia before and after government collapse"
"If state predation goes unchecked government may
not only fail to add to social welfare, but can actually reduce welfare below its level under statelessness.
Such was the case with Somalia's government, which did more harm to its citizens than good. "
http://www.peterl...less.pdf
Howhot
2.8 / 5 (9) Jun 21, 2013
Progressives tend to lay out fact and reason and argue within bounds of facts and reason

When? Where?
I have seen no facts or reason offered by 'progressives' here or on any of their propaganda outlets.
Physorg is a "propaganda outlet" now, ryggie?


The rightwing, conservative, teaparty, wingnuts, fruits and cakes really never think anything through except how it will effect themselves. Everyone knows that a progressive will get more done in a shorter time with community support, over the rightwing who try to exclude the community.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (21) Jun 21, 2013
Everyone knows that a progressive will get more done in a shorter time with community support,

Typical.
Socialists always blame their failures on the wrong leader.
What does a 'progressive' want to 'get done'?
Before the 'progressive' era, individuals created mutual aid societies to 'get things' done. Trouble is, they were quite successful without govt coercion.
Eventually, guilds, like medical doctors, used state laws to prohibit doctros from working in successful mutual aid hospitals.
And what we have now is govt run doctors that are expensive and provide bad care.
"The first major blow against fraternalism occurred when the American Medical Association gained control of the licensing of medical schools. In 1912, a number of state medical boards formed the Federation of State Medical Boards, which accepted the AMA's ratings of medical schools as authoritative."
http://mises.org/daily/5388
Howhot
3.2 / 5 (9) Jun 22, 2013
R2, everyone knows there is nothing dumber than a freaking republican. Your libertaria-con-job is nothing but BS. Same old. I've never seen a Libertarian community activist. In fact, I never met a libertarian that wasn't all wrapped up in their own self importance.

If you want to know, the labor movement (the lefties) and it's efforts have done more to improve America's capabilities, strengths and economy than anything ever, EVER put forth by republicans, libertarians or the neo-con anarchist that you seem to be. It was labor that "created mutual aid societies to 'get things' done."

All the tea party has done is gotten groups of angry old white people together to have red-neck bitch-sessions about Obama being born in Kenya! Or bitch sessions about Obama-care or any number of useless discussion points. It's either that or they have a social agenda the de-humanizes everyone with the least bit of sympathy to family on food stamps, black or white!

Are these people animals?
kochevnik
2.5 / 5 (11) Jun 22, 2013
Of course in US there are civil libertarians (progressives) and economic libertarians (Koch&bankster ponzi schemers) who only share a name
VendicarE
3.2 / 5 (9) Jun 22, 2013
"it because VD is a typical Hezbollah Progressive" - FreeTard

On Sunday's Freetard spends his days marching up and down main street, wearing a sandwich board and screaming to his fellow citizens on the shape shifting grey alien invasion, the evil of flouridation and the commie hoard that is eating America alive.

He needs to get back on his meds.
VendicarE
3.2 / 5 (9) Jun 22, 2013
In the U.S. there has been no group (LESS) fiscally rational than the Republicans and no group (MORE) fiscally conservative than the Democrats.

As has been well documented, for decades, the stated Republican and Libertarian plan has been to bankrupt America.

The Republican/Libertarian plan has been to "starve the beast" of big government through national fiscal bankruptcy.

Treason.
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (9) Jun 22, 2013
"Are these people animals? " - HowHot

Worthless animals... Yes.

Fortunately they are a dying breed and this TeaPublican nonsense is their last kick at the can before they expire.

America will be vastly better off when they are 6 feet under.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (10) Jun 22, 2013
"Socialists always blame their failures on the wrong leader." - Ryggtard

Where are those Iraqi WMD again TardieBoy?
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (9) Jun 22, 2013
"I ignore VD." - RyggTard

You also ignore reality.

That is why everyone here considers you a moron.

Despite your self imposed ignorance, reality persists.

And so do I.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (22) Jun 22, 2013
civil libertarians (progressives)

The ones that use the IRS to intimidate their oppoenents, spy on reporters who are working on stories they don't like and us the NSA to blackmail?
Typical of socialists, aka 'progressives'.
The gov of TX had to pass a law to make it LEGAL to say 'Merry Christmas'.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (21) Jun 22, 2013
labor movement (the lefties) and it's efforts have done more to improve America's capabilities, strengths and economy than anything ever,


Remind Detroit and California, which is controlled by govt unions.

t was labor that "created mutual aid societies to 'get things' done."

Is that why govts force workers to join unions?
they have a social agenda the de-humanizes everyone

The 'progressives' only dehumanize babies so they can be killed before being born and old people so they have have doctors kill them, and, of course, anyone who disagrees with them so they can call them names.
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (22) Jun 22, 2013
" 'I Was Brought Up in the Tea Party'"
"She said that she wasn't taught the trinity of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" growing up, but instead learned a different one: "Democrats, skin color, and gender." There was very little "God, country, and family" during her upbringing, but there was a whole lot of "bitch, moan, and whine," she said. "
"she suggested that the Tea Party will have a central role in creating that America. Johnson appeared on a panel of black conservatives Friday night on Fox News' "Hannity" and emphasized that she was more conservative than Republican because the Tea Party primarily influenced her political beliefs. "
""where are blacks in the Tea Party?"

She suggested Republicans needed to point out liberal movements—like Occupy Wall Street—do not have a large black presence.

"Where are the blacks in the Occupy movement?" "
http://www.breitb...ea-Party
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (22) Jun 22, 2013
The 'progressive' way, break the law.

" The Democrats had been badly shaken by the Republican comeback of 2010. They feared a repeat in 2012 that would lose them the White House.

Might targeting the tea-party groups—diverting them, keeping them from forming and operating—seem a shrewd campaign strategy in the years between 2010 and 2012? Sure. Underhanded and illegal,"
http://blogs.wsj....a-party/

Power is so important to 'progressives' they will do ANYTHING to keep it.
MR166
2.8 / 5 (20) Jun 22, 2013
In reality Progressives abhor freedom since true freedom includes the right for some to succeed and others to fail on their own merits. They do not view freedom as fair and must do everything in their power snuff it out whenever it rears it's ugly head.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (22) Jun 22, 2013
What 'progressives' have wrought:

"Economic reality, such as Detroit's shrinking population and tax base, does impose a limit: Once all the blood is squeezed from the stone, you are unsecured."

Cutting Detroit income and property taxes so that they're competitive with surrounding areas is critical to reversing crippling population and job losses, Orr said in his report. "
http://www.bloomb...ngs.html

"Since a federal judge ruled in April that Stockton, Calif., can pursue bankruptcy protection, the question has been which of the state's fiscally troubled cities will be next. These 10 are facing the kind of serious financial stress that sent Stockton and several other cities toward bankruptcy."
Atwater, Azuza, Compton, Fresno, Hercules, Mammoth Lakes, Monrovia, Oakland, San Jose, Vernon,
http://www.usatod...2076217/
Sean_W
1.9 / 5 (14) Jun 22, 2013
SCIENCE 2.0
It sort of smells like science but with all the fun of an insane religious cult.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (21) Jun 22, 2013
Racist 'liberals':
"The most dangerous place for an African Ameircan is in the womb."
http://blackgenoc...ome.html
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (23) Jun 22, 2013
"In the surest sign that the liberal/progressive journalist special forces aligned to protect President Obama and the prospective candidacy of Hillary Clinton are beginning to fear the rise of Sen. Rand Paul, founding member of Journ-o-list and darling of the "Juice Box Mafia" Matt Yglesias defamed the Kentucky Republican Senator as a "white supremacist" Thursday on Twitter:"
http://www.breitb...remacist

"Byrd joined the Klan at the ripe young age of 24 — hardly a young'un by today's standards, much less those of 1944, when Byrd refused to join the military because he might have to serve alongside "race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds," according to a letter Byrd wrote to Sen. Theodore Bilbo at the height of World War II.

Read more: http://dailycalle...X0SO8ipg
Byrd was a 'progressive'.
JohnGee
2.2 / 5 (10) Jun 23, 2013
Byrd changed his ways, and not coincidentally he changed parties. He had the highest rating from the NAACP of any senator at the time of his death.

I suggest you look up Strom Thurmond. He was a racist until the end but switched from the Democrats to the Republicans during the Civil Rights movement. I wonder why.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (19) Jun 23, 2013
not coincidentally he changed parties.

When did Byrd switch parties?

I suggest you look up Artur Davis and Elbert L. Guillory from Louisiana.
kochevnik
2.5 / 5 (11) Jun 23, 2013
Racist 'liberals':
"The most dangerous place for an African Ameircan is in the womb."
If they were trapped in some womb, like that of a blue whale, I assume any person could work their way out. Nice image, ryggie. No, the most dangerous place for anyone to be is under the care of a crazy libertarian
VendicarE
3 / 5 (8) Jun 23, 2013
"The ones that use the IRS to intimidate their oppoenents, spy on reporters who are working on stories they don't like and us the NSA to blackmail?" - RyggTard

Sorry TardieBoy, but that isn't a sentence.

Shouldn't the IRS be targeting the legions of Republicans who claim they have no legal obligation to pay taxes, for investigation?

Rational people think they should.

Why don't Repubicans who claim they don't pay taxes?
VendicarE
3 / 5 (8) Jun 23, 2013
"The most dangerous place for an African Ameircan is in the womb."

Why is it that rates of Abortion, child molestation, and pornography consumption are highest among Conservative American Christians?
VendicarE
3 / 5 (8) Jun 23, 2013
"Remind Detroit and California, which is controlled by govt unions." - RyggTard

Everyone knows that California's economic problems are primarily the result of State Republicans who hold enough votes to prevent the increase in taxes needed to reduce the state deficit, combined with the actions of Federal Republicans who have done their best to move as many manufacturing jobs out of California and to the Pacific Rim.

Detroit is just a dying city that put it's faith in the viability of the U.S. auto industry and was stabbed in the back by that very same industry.

Capitalists are inherently untrustworthy and dishonest.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jun 23, 2013
"Cutting Detroit income and property taxes so that they're competitive with surrounding areas is critical to reversing crippling population and job losses, Orr said in his report." - RyggTard

Orr, appointed by Republican Governor Rick Snyder to oversee Michigan's largest city, proposed a deal last week that included skipping a $39.7 million payment on pension-obligation debt.

Orr is just another Republican who refuses to pay his debts.

That is the Republican plan for America as well. Cut and Run from the massive debts they have created. Blame others for their own borrow and spend folly.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jun 23, 2013
"Since a federal judge ruled in April that Stockton, Calif., can pursue bankruptcy protection, the question has been which of the state's fiscally troubled cities will be next." - RyggTard

Yup, and the blame rests at the feet of California Republicans who have done their best to bankrupt their own state.

Their plan is known as "Starve the Beast"
VendicarE
3 / 5 (8) Jun 23, 2013
RyggTard fails to post the following from his own link...

SLATE'S YGLESIAS CALLS RAND PAUL 'WHITE SUPREMACIST'

In broader context, Paul's musings on Jim Crow are probably driven by his white supremacist leanings.

He seems to specifically not regard African-Americans as worthy of any consideration at all.

Why did RyggTard leave those lines out of a 4 paragraph piece?

Answer. Because his goal is misrepresentation.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jun 23, 2013
And again from RyggTard's own link.

"The data show that had the Tea Party groups continued to grow at the pace seen in 2009 and 2010, and had their effect on the 2012 vote been similar to that seen in 2010, they would have brought the Republican Party as many as 5-8.5 million votes compared to Obama's victory margin of 5 million.""

But the TeaTards didn't give the Republcans those 5 million more votes. and the reason for it is quite clear...

There is a limit to the number of stupid old Republican white men in America.

The TeaPublican party fell flat on it's face during the last election cycle, and despite the "Ra-Ra" of RyggTards article from Conservative Bubble land, reality is defined by real events. And those events from the last election cycle were the political defeat of a very large number of TeaPublicans who had been voted into office just a few years before.

The Electorate realized that they had voted a Extremist Republican Moron into office and he was promptly removed
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jun 23, 2013
"Byrd was a 'progressive'." - RyggTard

Who renounced his racist past and became a Democrat.

He earned my respect as a result.

Did he earn yours?

VendicarE
2.9 / 5 (7) Jun 23, 2013
Another defeat for American Conservatives...

Gay "Conversion" Ministry Apologizes, Disbands

A Christian group devoted to so-called gay "conversion" has closed its doors and apologized to the LGBT community. Exodus International had billed itself as the oldest Christian ministry devoted to the practice of trying to shame gay people into changing their sexual orientation. In an open letter to LGBT people who underwent its practices, Exodus International president Alan Chambers said the group was part of a "system of ignorance,"

http://www.democr...eadlines
Howhot
3.7 / 5 (9) Jun 24, 2013
labor movement (the lefties) and it's efforts have done more to improve America's capabilities, strengths and economy than anything ever,


Remind Detroit and California, which is controlled by govt unions.

t was labor that "created mutual aid societies to 'get things' done."

Is that why govts force workers to join unions?
they have a social agenda the de-humanizes everyone

The 'progressives' only dehumanize babies so they can be killed before being born and old people so they have have doctors kill them, and, of course, anyone who disagrees with them so they can call them names.


Of course R2 goes all nuclear about Detroit and it's decent into economic turmoil from the W. Bush admin and the typical republican lack of concern to dehumanizing vast infrastructures by the unregulated pull out of capital from a thriving city. California BTW, is doing fine fruitcake.
Howhot
2.8 / 5 (9) Jun 24, 2013
Remind Detroit and California, which is controlled by govt unions.
You know, only a real ALEC pocket pussy would complain about govt unions which have be a solid foundation of government trust between the people and it's citizenry for a century or more. It is ridiculous to blame labor when the only issue is corporations lack of duty to it's citizenry, place and environment to provide accommodation of a few cents to shareholders.

Something is really screwed up in the good-old USofA if somehow labor is the cause of the issues with America. I can tell you, it's certainly not labor. No. It's you guys that F-ed up the whole deal!

Heck we let you all have W as a president without a riots or court-battles for the good of the nation, and you drill us into war, deregulate everything, totally tank the economy, destroy the unions, piss-off on any environmental issue and make sh-t miserable for everyone. And you fight Obama on every little step forward. Enjoy what comes R2.
Urgelt
2.5 / 5 (6) Jun 24, 2013
The authors wrote, "Clearly, an African-American, mixed-race, liberal President may trigger ..."

What 'liberal' President are they talking about, again?

President Obama has continued and extended most of the policies of his predecessor, appointed conservatives to key positions, defied liberal aims for health care reform, placed Wall Street bankers in charge of Wall Street regulation. His foreign policy is based on assassinations. He has expanded Bush's spying on Americans, gone after whistleblowers with a vengeance, dragged his feet on closing Gitmo, ramped up the drug war...

Looks like a smarter, more articulate version of Bush to me.

This country has not seen an actual liberal in the Presidency since Kennedy. Johnson? Pro-corporate hawk. Carter? Conservative Southern Democrat. Clinton? Pragmatist who sold out to wealthy donors on Wall Street. Obama? Clinton imitator. Why do so many in mainstream media and academia pretend he's a liberal?
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (19) Jun 24, 2013
A list of people that were not likely surveyed for this article:
DR.BENJEMIN CARSON SR, DIRECTOR OF PEDIATRIC NEUROSERGERY JOHNS HOPKINS HOSPITAL, BISHOP COUNCIL NEDD II, PROJECT 21 MEMBER;CHARLES LOLLAR, CHAIRMAN, NEW DAY MARYLAND PAC; DAVID WEBB, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST; KEVIN MARTIN, PROJECT 21 MEMBER; REGINALD JONES, PROJECT 21 MEMBER

REV CL BRYANT, "RUNAWAY SLAVE" CREATOR

RON CHRISTIE, FORMER BUSH ADVISOR

STACY SWIMP, PROJECT 21 SPOKESMAN

WAYNE BRADLEY, "THE WAYNE BRADLEY SHOW" HOST

CRYSTAL WRIGHT, EDITOR, CONSERVATIVE BLACK CHICK

DENEEN BORELLI, FREEDOMWORKS DIRECTOR AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR -

ERICA DRAYTON, BLOGGER, ACTIVIST, WRITER

JADA JACKSON COLLINS, AUTHOR, LIFE COACH AND COMMUNICATOR KARL

MILLER, CONSERVATIVE WRITER, EXAMINER.COM & REDSTATE.COM

KEVIN JACKSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE BLACK SPHERE

LESLI BROWER, CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE

STAR PARKER, PRESIDENT, CURE

CAROL SWAIN, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR

JASON RILEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR

ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jun 24, 2013
defied liberal aims for health care reform,

What are these aims?
The intent of Obamacare is to nationalize/socialize health care.
That is not 'liberal' enough for you?
govt unions which have be a solid foundation of government trust between the people and it's citizenry for a century or more.

FDR was OPPOSED to any govt workers union basically siting conflict of interest.
Detroit and it's decent into economic turmoil from the W. Bush

Typical. Blame Bush and ignore the decades of corruption by the sociologists leading MI and Detroit.
California BTW, is doing fine

Compared to what, Cuba? "California's dilemma: Remain a 'basket-case' state economy or become more like North Dakota?" http://www.aei-id...-dakota/
Read more at: http://phys.org/n...html#jCp
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jun 24, 2013
unregulated pull out of capital from a thriving city.

That IS the socialists solution. FORCE people to keep THEIR money in a failing city so the govt can continue to plunder.
Fortunately socialist cities can't 'nationalize' companies like Cuba or Venezuela did.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (18) Jun 24, 2013
Government Unions, a great Progressive scam. Government Unions are nothing more than a arm of the Democrats. Government Unions are the foot soldiers, fund raisers, leakers of government information against Democrats enemies. What is worse is that tax payers that pay for this.

IF Government can be trusted, then why do the workers who run the Government need a union.

Free the country, disband Government Unions.
freethinking
1.6 / 5 (20) Jun 24, 2013
One thing I wonder about is how many Hezbollah Progressives are on this board.

For example known sock puppeteer VD, will most likely be voted up by and mostly in the same order by deepsand, sinister1811 8 ball and 6 of 28.

It's always interesting that these other names crop up most often in the same order. Could this be the same consensus that Prophet, or is that profit Al Gore keeps talking about? Or could this be the same WE as Obama keeps speaking about.

Remember Progressives love to lie, cheat, steal, vote, and vote often.
topfuel
3 / 5 (8) Jun 24, 2013
"The authors conclude, "Clearly, an African-American, mixed-race, liberal President may trigger symbolic racism and even racial stereotypes among the population at large."

What a preposterous conclusion presented here, sans actual facts. Is this coming from the academic research wing of the IRS? This is simply one more article from the"left" using their long litany of disingenuous propositions...playing their "race" card yet again. Even a mediocre comic has more one liners than this bunch. This time it's done under the guise of academic research. The only thing "clear" here is that these profoundly dim witted academics are allowed to waste money and get away with it in public. CLEARLY it's time for these two to have their pay docked while an investigation determines what nitwit let them out of school prematurely.

Howhot
2.9 / 5 (7) Jun 24, 2013
R2 makes another BS claim;
FDR was OPPOSED to any govt workers union basically siting conflict of interest.
which is typical of the right-wing mind. Somewhere they think they heard this, or they just make up a lie and see if it will stick. Here is what FDR actually said about govt works unions; "". Nothing not a damn thing.

Here is what FDR said in general about an American Citizen's rights;
"It is now beyond partisan controversy that it is a fundamental individual right of a worker to associate himself with other workers and to bargain collectively with his employer." FDR.


Of course the primary reason of government unions is to provide some protection from an every changing political leadership, and to establish professionalism and structure in government work. I don't know about your state, but in ours, every fed gov work I've met has always been a top notch professional. Same with the state works too. It would be awful to loose these folk to appease R2.
Howhot
3.3 / 5 (9) Jun 24, 2013
An idiot tea-party wingnut fool said
Remember Progressives love to lie, cheat, steal, vote, and vote often.
Well we only learned it from you. It dates back to Nixon. Or are you such a dim-bulb as to not know the history of your own party.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 25, 2013
People of Liberty party leader convicted of illegal relations with Child Prostitutes.

My, my... How Libertarian/Randite of him.

http://news.yahoo...697.html
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 25, 2013
"Somewhere they think they heard this, or they just make up a lie and see if it will stick." - HowHot

Yup. RyggTard lies all the time. Lying is a way of life for Libertarians/Randites and Republicans.

I have never encountered a Liertarian/Randite or Republican who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

They will manufacture any lie they need to in order to defend their corrupt political Liedeology.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (19) Jun 25, 2013
Well we only learned it from you.

'Liberals' have been lying and cheating LONG before Nixon.
I'm sure Nixon was motivated by the voter fraud that put JFK in office.
"Even before Election Day, rumors circulated about fraud, especially in Chicago, where Mayor Richard Daley's machine was known for delivering whopping Democratic tallies by fair means and foul. "
"once an election has been stolen in Cook County, it stays stolen." What's more, according to journalist Seymour Hersh, a former Justice Department prosecutor who heard tapes of FBI wiretaps from the period believed that Illinois was rightfully Nixon's. Hersh also has written that J. Edgar Hoover believed Nixon actually won the presidency but in deciding to follow normal procedures and refer the FBI's findings to the attorney general—as of Jan. 20, 1961, Robert F. Kennedy—he effectively buried the case."
http://www.slate....d.2.html
Chicago corruption.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (17) Jun 25, 2013
I wish Hezbollah Progressives learned from conservatives.
I wish Hezbollah Progressives learn honesty, dignity, caring, honor, respect, love of family and country, and the belief in hard work.

But mind you if a Hezbollah Progressive, or any Liberal Progressive learned those things, then they would be considered a conservative.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (19) Jun 25, 2013
Driving down the road one sees huge, well lighted sign for feminine protection products and a small, dingy sign for condoms. Why the difference? The former is out for blood and the later is just messing around.
'Liberals' are out for blood, power, and will do anything to obtain it.
Those opposed to tyranny need to stop messing around and defend our liberty even more tenaciously.
JohnGee
1.9 / 5 (9) Jun 25, 2013
Driving down the road one sees huge, well lighted sign for feminine protection products and a small, dingy sign for condoms. Why the difference? The former is out for blood and the later is just messing around.
'Liberals' are out for blood, power, and will do anything to obtain it.
Those opposed to tyranny need to stop messing around and defend our liberty even more tenaciously.

What fresh hell is this? I hope you're on something because that's some seriously disjointed garbage you're gracing us with.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jun 25, 2013
Gee, as we see 'liberals' will do ANYTHING, break laws, leak details of a sealed court case (Jerri Ryan divorce) , intimidate opponents with the IRS, record data for later blackmail (NSA). .. and for what? A job that ostensibly pays ~$200k/year?
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jun 25, 2013
Here is what FDR actually said about govt works unions; "". Nothing not a damn thing.

Yes, he did:
"The Government does not engage --of course, the words "collective bargaining" were unheard of in those days --the Government does not make contracts with any Government employee."
"The pay of Government employees is fixed by the Congress. We people who run the Executive Department of Government as a whole are bound by the law. Every workman has a full op~ortunity to be heard. They can lay the case before the Congress if any change is contemplated in the lav!. That is where it is made."
"Mr. PreSident, do you think that Government employees should have the right to strike to enforce their demands?
THE PRESIDENT: No, the Civil SerVice rules cover that. That is very simple."
"Not in the Government, because there is no collective contract. It is a very different case. There isn1 t any bargaining, in other words, with the Government, therefore the question does not arise."
FDR Lib.
JohnGee
2.5 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2013
FDR Lib.

And Reagan raised taxes. Your point?
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (19) Jun 25, 2013
Point:
This is a lie:

"Here is what FDR actually said about govt works unions; "". Nothing not a damn thing. "

"FDR lib" is a reference to the source, the FDR Library.
Howhot
3.4 / 5 (7) Jun 25, 2013
No R2, here is the point; it is a fundamental individual right of a worker to associate himself with other workers and to bargain collectively with his employer. If you find that objectionable, then there is no hope for you or your soul. It makes the individual worthless when the value of his/her work is lessened by the inability to negotiate a fair wage. The economy would shutdown without strength of the labor force and the unions for demanding fair compensation for work performed. Its bad for the economy.

Government unions have a purpose to protect government employees from the political influences of an ever changing political landscape. The political orientation of government union members has no bearing on the services they provide. The huge mistake that is happening in Wisconsin (for example) is that the wages (and employee protection from politics) for function of services is not negotiated. It is dictated by mean-n-stingy Tea party and WACK JOB religious conservative.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (19) Jun 26, 2013
individual right of a worker to associate himself with other workers and to bargain collectively with his employer.


Govt employees are paid from wealth plundered from their fellow citizens and controlled by politicians elected by the govt employees and the plundered.
protect government employees from the political influences of an ever changing political landscape

So why are ALL govt unions supporting socialist politicians? Oh, I get it, the union want to END the changing landscape and create the socialist state with no parties.
FDR opposed govt unions because he feared exactly what happened in WI. Unions use their plundered dues to support socialist candidates who then in turn promote and support unions. Govt for the unions and by the unions and the plundered peasants would not be happy with govt and rise in opposition. That's what happened in WI and the plundered citizens are now better off and trust in govt is falling.
freethinking
1.6 / 5 (19) Jun 26, 2013
Union workers directing funds to their friends:
http://blogs.fede...e-fifth/

I think that under Obama more government workers and officials have pleaded the 5'th than any other president. I'm sure Eric Holder will investigate (sarcasm)

How about the poor hard working selfless public employee's, who can't get fired, get golden pensions, who investigate Obama's enemies, who can destroy a persons life, using Americans money to buy wine, porn, etc. http://www.breitb...A7512Q00

freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Jun 26, 2013
Another selfless, unfireable, union supported and protected, dedicated public employee.

http://www.nypost...yorkpost

Anyone who supports freedom must be against public service unions
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 26, 2013
"Another selfless, unfireable, union supported and protected, dedicated public employee." - FreeTard

FreeTardo is right. Health care in America is substandard.

But of course in the Libertarian Utopia he wishes for America she would have died anyway unless she had enough money in her wallet to pay for the EMT for her services.

You see, in his Libertarian imagination, Corporations will magically appear to provide EMT services all over America.

But then we have the case of the private fire department in the U.S. who just won't respond to house fires unless you have paid them up front for their services.

They just let your house burn to the ground Libertarian style.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 26, 2013
"Union workers directing funds to their friends:" - FreeTard

Are you saying that non-union workers never direct funds to their friends.

Isn't that what Washington Lobbyists do? Are Republican Senators and Congressman Unionized?
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 26, 2013
"Govt employees are paid from wealth plundered from their fellow citizens" - RyggTard

No they aren't. You pay your taxes willingly don't you?

If you don't want to pay for the benefits of being an American then you should head off to the Libertarian paradise of Somalia.

What is keeping you, Libertarian Boy?

Can't you afford to purchase a ticket?

VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 26, 2013
"So why are ALL govt unions supporting socialist politicians?" - RyggTard

Because they recognize Republicans and Libertarians for what they are... The Enemies of America.

The fact that you are so mentally polluted that you don't, is your failure, and your bias. Not theirs.

Time and time again we have illustrated your dishonesty, your mental confusion, your revisions of history, and your willful misinterpretation of facts and scientific reality.

This indicates that your claim that there is bias on the Liberal side is really just self delusion on your part.

In summation. You are a dishonest, self deceiving, NutJob.

VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 26, 2013
"Gee, as we see 'liberals' will do ANYTHING, break laws, leak details of a sealed court case (Jerri Ryan divorce) " - RyggTard

JUNE 22--In what may prove a crippling blow to his U.S. Senate campaign, divorce records reveal that Illinois Republican Jack Ryan was accused by his former wife, actress Jeri Ryan, of pressuring her to have sex at swinger's clubs in New York, Paris, and New Orleans while other patrons watched.

The bombshell allegation is contained amidst nearly 400 pages of records ordered released yesterday by a Los Angeles Superior Court judge who ruled on media requests to unseal documents from the Ryan case.

The performer alleged that she refused Ryan's requests for public sex during the excursions, which included a trip to a New York club "with cages, whips and other apparatus hanging from the ceiling." While Ryan, a former Goldman Sachs executive, confirmed the trips with the actress, he described them simply as "romantic getaways," CONT..
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 26, 2013
Cont...

denying her claims that he sought public sex.

The politician has repeatedly claimed that his divorce file--portions of which were sealed in 2000 and 2001--contained no embarrassing information that would harm his chances against Democratic nominee Barack Obama.

http://www.thesmo...-scandal

--------------------------

So once again the Claims made by RyggTard turn out to be nothing but Libertarian/Randite lies.

I have never encountered a Libertarian or Randite who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (18) Jun 26, 2013
Another selfless, unfireable, union supported and protected, dedicated public employee.

http://www.nypost...yorkpost

Anyone who supports freedom must be against public service unions

Since unions are so great, let's start a Producers union and then go on strike.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jun 26, 2013
"let's start a Producers union and then go on strike." - RyggTard

Corporations can certainly band together and refuse to produce.

There is no law on the books that prevents it.

Poor RyggTard. He just doesn't have a rational grasp of how the world works.

His mental disease prevents it.

Howhot
3 / 5 (6) Jun 26, 2013
You know R2, that must have taken a lot of effort to compose this thought line;
Govt employees are paid from wealth plundered from their fellow citizens and controlled by politicians elected by the govt employees and the plundered.
Man your view of a Govt employee is wacko. I suggest you go ask a Govt employee "are you providing the service we paid for". All will say "that and beyond!" because that is what they do. That is what America is all about.

That is what America is all about my friend. You will find hard workers everywhere; be it the at the pinnacle of wall street, or the city park service gardener. 47% of us work hard to keep the USA afloat.

ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (18) Jun 27, 2013
Man your view of a Govt employee is wacko. I suggest you go ask a Govt employee "are you providing the service we paid for". All will say "that and beyond!" because that is what they do.


"The IRS held a 2008 conference in Atlanta that included an open bar, elaborate hors d'oeuvres and a video of agency employees dressed as Olympic athletes with makeshift torches.

Read more: http://thehill.co...XQ8IjL5d
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
"Poor oversight by the Internal Revenue Service allowed workers to use agency credit cards to buy wine for an expensive luncheon, dorky swag for managers' meetings and, for one employee, romance novels and diet pills, an agency watchdog said Tuesday."
http://www.breitb...A7512Q00
IRS Sent $46,378,040 in Refunds to 23,994 'Unauthorized' Aliens at 1 Atlanta Address - See more at: http://cnsnews.co...ds-23994
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (19) Jun 27, 2013
Man your view of a Govt employee is wacko.

Like the WI teachers who lied about sick leave and went to Madison, WI to yell and scream?

"The details of the $822,000 Las Vegas conference — featuring mind readers, lavish parties and embarrassing parodies — were released April 2 in an inspector general's report and widely covered. More than a half-dozen top leaders at GSA were immediately fired, put on leave or forced to resign. And stern rebukes came from the White House."
http://www.federa...expected
"Educators accused of breaking rules, abusing kids — or simply failing to provide students with a decent education — will be paid a stunning $22 million by the city this year for doing absolutely nothing."
http://www.nydail....1184406
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Jun 27, 2013
As a private citizen, I can direct my funds to my friends and it is not stealing. In Government if I direct funds to friends, it is stealing taxpayers money to give to my friends.

When the IRS is out of control, who's to blame? No one it seems. Government employees now regularly plead the 5'th. If Government employees need a Union because they don't trust the Government that they run, how can the general public trust the Government.

To save this country, we must fire the government unions.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 28, 2013
What is it with Republicans, nazi flags, rampant Racism, and Hate for Obama?

STRATFORD, Conn. (AP) — A man's decision to fly a Nazi flag outside his Connecticut home has prompted a visit from police.

Sincavage, who flew a Confederate flag in the same spot several months ago, said flying the flag is his way of protesting the policies of President Obama. He said he has no plans to take it down.

Read more: http://www.myfoxn...XUZjDzu9
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 28, 2013
"As a private citizen, I can direct my funds to my friends and it is not stealing." - FreeTard

Doing so is never "stealing", it is the ethical failure called "nepotism"

http://en.wikiped...Nepotism

Poor FreeTardo. No wonder he is so ethically challenged. His view of ethics is so course and incomplete that he simply identifies nepotism as "stealing" and uses that mis-identification as the basis of some faulty logic.

Garbage in = Garbage out.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 28, 2013
"Like the WI teachers who lied about sick leave and went to Madison, WI to yell and scream?" - RyggTard

Most school systems implement "personal days" rather than Sick Leave, and even allow teachers to bank those days up to some limit. If not taken they are often lost.

Given your long history of lying and misrepresentation, RyggTard, can you provide any proof to us that this teacher was on "sick leave" rather than a "personal day"?

No. I didn't think you could.

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jun 28, 2013
"The IRS held a 2008 conference in Atlanta that included an open bar, elaborate hors d'oeuvres and a video of agency employees dressed as Olympic athletes with makeshift torches." - RyggTard

We have something similar every year where I work.

Management considers it "Team Building"

They are right.
Howhot
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 29, 2013
"let's start a Producers union and then go on strike." - RyggTard

Corporations can certainly band together and refuse to produce.

There is no law on the books that prevents it.

Poor RyggTard. He just doesn't have a rational grasp of how the world works.

His mental disease prevents it.



I tend to agree. I think it depends on if you want a rational world, or one of irrational ism based on political over exuberance. R2 Tends to fall in the later as best I can tell. I wish I knew where R2 pulls all of his quotation from though. I could say Benjamin Franklin was one of America's best patriots, and he will argue that to not be the case based on tea party principles. If anything, the Rygg has some Cojones, even if he is a wingnut.

ValeriaT
1 / 5 (7) Jun 29, 2013
It is a big mistake to suppose, that the humans are predestined to create multicultural communities spontaneously. Such a mixing of cultures and races would kill the cultural and racial diversity instead and it will inhibit the natural competition - so that as the whole the resulting homogeneous mixture will evolve slower. From the same reason the organisms form a diverse species, not a single homogeneous jelly covering the surface of Earth. Therefore the people will form racial mixtures if it will be advantageous for them, for example economically, but from long term perspective they will lose as a whole. We should realize, that the multicultural world is a product of economical globalism of international monopolies, which just struggle to achieve the free motion of labor force, but they don't solve the resulting social problems and transfer their solution to local government. In this way we all are paying the international companies for their cheaper labor force and higher profit.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (19) Jun 29, 2013
I think it depends on if you want a rational world, or one of irrational ism based on political over exuberance.


It's irrational to want the US govt to follow the Constitution?
I guess Hottie prefers the 'rational' destruction of the US to a complete totalitarian state by Obama and his fellow socialists.
VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (8) Jun 29, 2013
"It's irrational to want the US govt to follow the Constitution?" - RyggTard

Would this be the Constitution that allowed America's Founding Fathers to own salves, and prohibited women from voting?

"destruction of the US to a complete totalitarian state.." - RyggTard

This would be the democratic "totalitarian state" that you are living in, in which you elect your government officials, move anywhere you want, Travel to any nation you want = Except Cuba where you are barred by Republican sponsored law?

This would be the "totalitarian state" which Republicans and American's regularly claim is the freeist nation on earth, and a beacon of freedom and liberty for the entire world?

Watching Faux news and listening to mindless Conservative Mouthpieces like Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and the others has made your mind soft and is feeding your mental disease, TardieBoy.

You should take a Vacation.

I suggest the Glorious Libertarian-Paradise state of Somalia, where you can see real freedom.
antialias_physorg
2.5 / 5 (8) Jun 29, 2013
American's regularly claim is the freeist nation on earth, and a beacon of freedom and liberty for the entire world?

Every time I hear something similar from an american I can't help but think that it's like a North Korean saying he lives in the most free nation ... at some point the public buy the PR bull so much (and are so little knowleadgeable about the world outside their nation's borders) that they actively start believing it.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jun 29, 2013
American's regularly claim is the freeist nation on earth, and a beacon of freedom and liberty for the entire world?

Every time I hear something similar from an american I can't help but think that it's like a North Korean saying he lives in the most free nation ... at some point the public buy the PR bull so much (and are so little knowleadgeable about the world outside their nation's borders) that they actively start believing it.

"The United States, with an economic freedom score of 76, has lost ground again in the 2013 Index. Its score is 0.3 point lower than last year, with declines in monetary freedom, business freedom, labor freedom, and fiscal freedom. "
http://www.herita...edstates
After seven years of socialist rule. What a surprise, not.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (14) Jun 29, 2013
Every time I hear something similar from an american I can't help but think that it's like a North Korean saying he lives in the most free nation ... at some point the public buy the PR bull so much (and are so little knowleadgeable about the world outside their nation's borders) that they actively start believing it
Yeah without specifics here I would have to conclude that aa is just posturing. What freedoms do euros have that americans dont?

Our taxes are lower, our cost of living is far lower on average, we have better health care, our gas is cheaper, we can own guns, etc.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 29, 2013
"After seven years of socialist rule. What a surprise, not." - RyggTard

Poor RyggTard, he just can't explain why Socialist states like Canada, iceland, Sweden, Norway, etc all score higher on the freedom scale than the U.S.

Even the socialist state of Chile does better.

But that is ok because his source of "Freedom statistics", is the Heritage Foundation, an organization that still promotes smoking as a healthy lifestyle choice.

Filth.
freethinking
1.8 / 5 (19) Jun 30, 2013
Freedom is being allowed to say Homosexuality is wrong, Homosexual Marriage is wrong and not going to jail or being dragged to the human rights tribunal.
Freedom is not being forced to make a cake for a homosexual wedding.
Freedom is not being forced to make a flower arrangement for a homosexual wedding.
Freedom is being treated equally by the IRS irrespective of your political party.
Freedom is not having the press fear that the DOJ will investigate you for reporting things embarrassing to the president.
Freedom is being secure in your communications.

Only an absolute idiot or a Progressive nut, can believe that freedom has not been lost in the last 5 years. Are American's safer with this loss of Freedom over the last 5 years? Has lost freedoms increased our safety? Only an absolute idiot or a Progressive nut can say we have traded our freedoms for additional safety.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jun 30, 2013
"Freedom is being allowed to say Homosexuality is wrong, " - FreeTard

Freedom is being able to fire someone who says homosexuality is wrong.

Isn't that the kind of freedom you have been demanding in your mindless tirades against Unions?

VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jun 30, 2013
"Homosexual Marriage is wrong " - FreeTard

Your personal opinions are of no consequence. Homosexuals have the freedom to marry.

Your plan to limit their Liberty shows us how much of an enemy you are to true freedom and Liberty.

Tea-Tarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jun 30, 2013
"Only an absolute idiot or a Progressive nut, can believe that freedom has not been lost in the last 5 years" - FreeTard

Poor FreeTard. He still thinks it is his Gawad Given right to piss in the pool.

Sorry TardieBoy. You have never had that right.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jun 30, 2013
"Freedom is being treated equally by the IRS irrespective of your political party." - FreeTardo

I don't grant the party of Republican Tax Evaders a waver from being preferentially investigated for tax evasion.

No rational person would.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 30, 2013
"Freedom is not being forced to make a cake for a homosexual wedding." - FreeTard

Freedom is expecting your employees to do their job even if they don't like who they are working for.

Poor FreeTardo. He is just one cock short of a chicken coup.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jun 30, 2013
"Freedom is not being forced to make a flower arrangement for a homosexual wedding." - FreeTardo

Do your job FreTardo, or else your employer will fire you, as he has every right to do.

Youi Poor Tardieboy..... you.
JohnGee
2.1 / 5 (11) Jun 30, 2013
Freethinking is the perfect example of everything that is wrong with Christianity.
freethinking
1.8 / 5 (16) Jul 01, 2013
johngee and VD show whats wrong with Homosexuals activists and Progressives. They want to take rights away and force business owners to support things they religiously oppose. Remember religious freedom is in the constitution.

So, JohnGee and VD, would you support book store owned by an Atheist being forced by LAW to carry bibles and pro-christian reading material? Do you support a LAW mandating that Atheist flower shops MUST provide flowers to first communion services? Do you support a law stating Atheists baker MUST make a baptism cake? Do you support laws that would arrest an Atheist who says anything derogatory towards a christian church?

IF you are against any such laws, you are a hypocrite!
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 01, 2013
Freedom is not being forced to make a cake for a homosexual wedding.
Freedom is not being forced to make a flower arrangement for a homosexual wedding
And this would also include the freedom not to bake childrens birthday cakes with xian symbols on top of them which glorify torture, martyrdom, and human sacrifice. Or to serve people who perpetuate religionist lies, bigotry, and violence in restaurants, supermarkets, hospitals, and so forth.

This would only be retaliation mind you.
http://www.ration...174.html
book store owned by an Atheist being forced by LAW to carry bibles and pro-christian reading material?
So you read my post and posted right away.

So why not ft? Why shouldnt there be laws against bigotry? And why are you implying there SHOULD be laws protecting it?

Ill tell you. Because bigotry is a core value of religion. Religion could not exist without bigotry.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 01, 2013
"They want to take rights away and force business owners to support things they religiously oppose." - FreeTard

When Businesses and Corpoations become people they will be free to have personal opinions.

Until then they will be regulated by the state for the good of the people, and correctly so.

"So, JohnGee and VD, would you support book store owned by an Atheist being forced by LAW to carry bibles and pro-christian reading material?" - FreeTard

Of course not. That would be promoting one religion over another.

Do you actually think before you write your nonsense?

Mindless.. Absolutely mindless.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 01, 2013
Freethining.... A random series of thoughts disconnected from reality and from any logical connection with each other.

Incoherent, Illogical, and Irrelevant to anything but an imaginary world.

bmorrow492
1 / 5 (3) Jul 01, 2013
You realize, don't you, that you will destroy phys.org if you continue trying to use it for political indoctrination.
Howhot
2 / 5 (4) Jul 01, 2013
Remember that the US constitution frees the people from the shackles of religion. That is the important lesson the goofball freethink need to absorb in the one puny wingnut neuron he has in his brain case. I'm proud to stand with progressives because they are much freer thinking than he and and his conservative tightwad anti-women religiosity crap.

Is the US Tea Party movement a racial backlash against President Obama?
Absolutely! I was listening to NPR the other day, and a lady (forgot the name) was talking about coming from Africa to the US, and to experience USA racism for the first time. Free think need to change shoes and go through that process (even as a mental exercise, maybe we all should). To her, she didn't know what a watermelon was or its association. She had to learn to *fake* being ashamed because that was what the racists wanted.

There is a big lesson we all need to take home; that a country like USA has racism and we all need to fight against it.

ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 02, 2013
Remember that the US constitution frees the people from the shackles of religion.

No, it prevents Congress from establishing a state religion and passing laws to prevent the free exercise of religion.
Congress has violated the part about establishing a state religion. The state religion is now atheism and Congress passes laws to prevent the free exercise of other religions.
I was listening to NPR the other day,

What a surprise! Hottie listens to state run radio.
that a country like USA has racism

Which is promoted and supported by those who profit from it, 'liberals', Al Sharpton, Jackson, .....
Jesse Jackson's business model is to shakedown businesses by threatening discrimination lawsuits.
Eric Holder refused to seriously investigate black gangs attacking whites in Chicago and WI.
Racism is a wonderful tool for the 'progressives'.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 02, 2013
Otto, if you owned a store and you don't want to bake cakes with religious symbols on it and I wanted one baked, I wouldn't take you to court to force you to bake one, if you owned a book store and you don't carry the bible, I would not force you to, if you were a printer and you wouldn't print for a church, I wouldn't force you. Yet Progressive will take small businesses to court to force them to do so for Homosexual Marriage. This Proves Progressives are Hypocrites. Progressives hate the constitution Because it forces Government to leave People alone. The Constitution LIMITS Government, Progressives WANT unlimited power given to the Government. Progressives are the true Bigots, they want to force conformity with their values.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 02, 2013
if you owned a store and you don't want to bake cakes with religious symbols on it and I wanted one baked, I wouldn't take you to court to force you to bake one
I am sure some little old lady in your congregation or the aclu would though, and rightly so.

See, because if I was allowed to get away with something like that then the guy across the street might want to stop selling to jews or black people, and we couldnt let that happen could we? Of course jews or blacks are not fairies which I guess in your mind is somehow different.

This is why we have laws meant to restrict bigots such as yourself from discriminating. This is reasonable dont you think?

But we have yet to address the bigotry recorded in your books, which is clearly defamatory and inciteful.

"Don't associate with non-Christians. Don't receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them." 2 John 1:10

"Christians are "of God;" everyone else is wicked." 1 John 5:19

-This is hate speech is it not?
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 02, 2013
I was allowed to get away with something like that then the guy across the street might want to stop selling to jews or black people,

So?
Then someone else will sell to them.
Should all stores in Little .... have signs in English because they are driving away anyone who can't read the language.
Free markets where people are free to sell THEIR stuff to whomever THEY wish will either go out of business excluding some customers, or not.
The wedding cake baker in OR were set up by homosexuals. Their cakes were in demand around the area but the homosexual mob intimidated them and their customers.
In addition to the bakers, their customers are being intimidated not to buy a quality product. Too bad their neighbors and customers put up with the intimidation.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 02, 2013
So?
Then someone else will sell to them.
Should all stores in Little .... have signs in English because they are driving away anyone who can't read the language.
Free markets where people are free to sell THEIR stuff to whomever THEY wish will either go out of business excluding some customers, or not
Well there you go. And people who cannot buy food or gas where they live because of the color of their skin or the nature of their religion can just move, cant they? Or starve, or die.

Thats not the way this country works rygg. And thats why your free markets do not exist here or anywhere where there are govts that quarantee equal rights for everyone.

Because sadly there are always people like you who would gladly take those rights away from people who dont look or think like you do.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 02, 2013
And people who cannot buy food or gas where they live because of the color of their skin or the nature of their religion can just move, cant they? Or starve, or die.

What's stopping a competitor?
And if business is so good anyone can turn away customers, there is room for competition.
And there will be people like the homosexual mafia in OR that try to put Sweet Cakes by Mellisa out of business.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (10) Jul 02, 2013
And people who cannot buy food or gas where they live because of the color of their skin or the nature of their religion can just move, cant they? Or starve, or die.

What's stopping a competitor?
And if business is so good anyone can turn away customers, there is room for competition.
And there will be people like the homosexual mafia in OR that try to put Sweet Cakes by Mellisa out of business.
Oh sorry I try not to interact with bigots. Is that bigotry? I dont know.

And if you came into my flowershop I would tell you to go shop at the bigot-owned flowershop down the street. You know, the one covered in eggs and graffiti.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 02, 2013
"What's stopping a competitor?" - RyggTard

Oh, probably the same things that are stopping the U.S. from Competing against China.

Your assumption that every niche however small will be filled by some corporation that magically sprouts up out of nowhere, is another well disproved Libertarian Fantasy.

But since you choose to live in self imposed ignorance, you keep making that mistake as well.
Howhot
2.7 / 5 (3) Jul 03, 2013
Remember that the US constitution frees the people from the shackles of religion.


No, it prevents Congress from establishing a state religion and passing laws to prevent the free exercise of religion.

Same difference R2. An atheist has just the same rights as a person of faith. It's a well hashed over debate but the constitution provides protections from government from establishing a religion on people. That means by law, I'm not bound to any religion. It's as simple as that.
The state religion is now atheism and Congress passes laws to prevent the free exercise of other religions.
That's BS. You can't treat the disbelief of religion as a religion for law.
All law would be meaningless if there wasn't a secular social component of the law. On this great 4th of July week and Egypt's new grand revolution against religious cronyism, recall the preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America; "We the People of the United States of America..."
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 03, 2013
You can't treat the disbelief of religion as a religion for law.

Yes, you can.
"a Chicago federal court of appeals ruled in favor of a Wisconsin inmate who claimed that the prison violated his first amendment right to practice religion. The problem? He's an atheist. According to the American Family Association, The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals "ruled that prison officials erred because they 'did not treat atheism as a 'religion.'" "
http://www.cathol...eligion/

And yes, atheism requires faith and is a religion.
Agnosticism is a different story.

An atheist has just the same rights as a person of faith.

So if an atheist can demand the state force Christians not to practice their religion in public then Christians can demand the state force atheists not to practice their religion in public.
A local talk host had the right word for atheists who put up a monument beside the 10 commandments, obnoxious.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 03, 2013
Hottie, Independence Day celebrates the Declaration of Independence.
"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, ..."
"He {BHO} has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good. "
"He {BHO}has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, "
"He {BHO}has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance."
http://www.let.ru...ndence-j
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 03, 2013
"An East Coast pastor is fighting back after being told that he can't hold church services on the beach. The town of Rehoboth, Delaware says prayer on the public beach might violate the separation of church and state."
"The pastor pointed out that ironically, there is a plaque on the beach commemorating the fact that the community was established as a permanent Christian camp."

Read more: http://foxnewsins...Y2k4YoPw
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 03, 2013
"A Sonoma State University student has filed a religious accommodation request after she said she was ordered to remove her cross necklace because it might offend other students."
""It's amazing in this day of diversity and tolerance on university campuses that a university official would engage in this type of obvious religious discrimination," said Liberty Institute attorney Hiram Sasse"

Read more: http://foxnewsins...Y2kQ4Z6X
Howhot
3.5 / 5 (2) Jul 04, 2013
R2 says
And yes, atheism requires faith and is a religion.
Agnosticism is a different story.

Point well taken. Atheism requires a religion to deny, therefore itself becomes a religion. Where as agnostic would be exactly what you would want government to be. Secular-agnostic and progressive.

Happy Independence day to all in the USA and coincidentally to the our friends in Egypt. Good luck to them in there revolution!

antialias_physorg
3 / 5 (4) Jul 04, 2013
And yes, atheism requires faith and is a religion.

Funny how all those people who were around before somone invnted gods were atheists.
Tell me: did they have a belief? Or was it just the ABSENCE of a belief that made them atheists?
If you can answer this simple question then you will understand that the statement:
"atheism is a belief"
is completely moronic.

To an atheists the isue of believing in something or not isn't a choice between preferences (which WOULD be a belief). It isn't an issue at all.

The notion that "either you believe it, or you believe it doesn't exist - but that, too, is a belief" is a false dichotomy.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 04, 2013
Funny how all those people who were around before somone invnted gods were atheists.

When was that?
It seems likely humans had invented many gods as soon as they were mentally capable to do so.
Atheism is a BELIEF there is no God. Atheists can't objectively prove their belief.
Agnostic is the most intellectually honest, non-religious, objective position one can take if you don't believe or are not sure God exists.
It's so amusing to watch the umbrage taken when atheists are confronted with their faith.
agnostic would be exactly what you would want government to be. Secular-agnostic and progressive.

Then a govt can't be 'progressive' as that too is a religion. Socialism requires more faith than any faith in God.
John Adams said the Constitution was written for a moral and religious people and was inadequate for any other.
That's why Hottie and his fellow travelers need to destroy the Constitution.
antialias_physorg
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 04, 2013
When was that?

Somewhere between 10k and 100k years before now. Does it matter?
(As long as evolution is an accepted) there is SOME point before which gods became an issue for humans or their antecendants.

Atheism is a BELIEF there is no God.

No. Atheism is a stance where the issue of gods is a non-issue- like purple-green isn't a color (and not an 'anti-color').

Atheists can't objectively prove their belief.

Since it's not a belief they don't need to.

As for proof: You can never prove the absence of a thing.
If I say to you: "around every corner a unicorn stands which vanishes as soon as you go to look" who do you think is the onus of proof on? Me that they're there or you that they're not there?
If you answer that the burden of proof is up to me then you have just answered your own question

It's so amusing to watch the umbrage taken when atheists are confronted with their faith.

It's the exasperation of dealing with adults that behave like children.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 04, 2013
Somewhere between 10k and 100k years before now.

Where is the evidence?
Atheists demand evidence to prove their view of the world
t the burden of proof is up to me

I have faith in the existence of God and I have no need to prove it to you.
You have faith in no God and you can't prove it to anyone but yourself.
That is the nature of faith.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 04, 2013
Mindless Idiocy....

"Atheism is a BELIEF there is no God." - RyggTard

Atheists "believe" there is no Gawad in exactly the same way that trees, chickens and rocks "believe" there is no Gawad.

In other words, the term "believe" is misapplied.

The Misapplication of words is common among Libertarians and Randites.

I once had a Libertarian tell me that since wages were his life's blood and taxes took his wages, that government was logically taking his life which is equivalent to attempted murder.

He used that Libertarian Logic to call for the murder of any and all Government Employees.

And RyggTard still hasn't explained to us ehy his Hero - Ayn Rand, chose to become a Welfare Queen late in her life.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 04, 2013
As usual, Faux nerws is fabricating the news and RyggTard is regurgitating the dishonesty.

"An East Coast pastor is fighting back after being told that he can't hold church services on the beach." - Faux news

In fact, the Pastor applied for a permit to conduct 8 church services at a band stand, owned by the town that is close to a beach.

His permit was denied to assemble at the bandstand, not at the beach which is freely accessible and unrestricted..

Conservatives always lie like this.

Lying is a core aspect of being a Republican.

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 04, 2013
"Where is the evidence?" - RyggTard

In every introductory anthropology text that has been written over the last 200 years.

Check the references at the back of the book.

Just because you refuse to look, and refuse to understand, doesn't mean the evidence you refuse to look at doesn't exist.

It just means that you are willfully ignorant.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 04, 2013
"I have faith in the existence of God and I have no need to prove it to you." - RyggTard

That is very convenient for you since there is no material evidence for your Gawd.

We do however have ample evidence that the book you base your faith upon is a mishmash of nonsense copied from earlier books about different Gawad's, and famous figures from different religions.

What I find most amusing about Christianity is it's vilification of Lucifer, who in fact liberated man from a existence as an ignorant servant and put him on the path of to ever greater freedom and knowledge.

Clearly Christian Conservatives yearn for the good oll days when people were ignorant servants. This is why they insist that Americans become the slaves of Corporations and also explains their self imposed state of ignorance that they so adeptly demonstrate in this forum.

VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 04, 2013
More Disinformation from Faux News - regurgitated by RyggTard

"A Sonoma State University student has filed a religious accommodation request after she said she was ordered to remove her cross necklace because it might offend other students."

The student did not say she was "ordered" she said she was requested by her supervisor.
that she should "hide the cross under her shirt or remove it".

It is a reasonable request, and the University agrees with her that she was within her rights to ignore the request.

The university spokesperson on this matter says...

"It was absolutely an inappropriate action for him to make that request of her,"

So once again Faux news covers a non-story and reports it as an attack on Christianity.

Republican lies are destroying America.

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 04, 2013
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," - RyggTard

Fine words, written by slave owners.
antialias_physorg
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 04, 2013
Atheists demand evidence to prove their view of the world

Did you just really argue that the first living cell was already a christian? Really? Doesn't that strike (even you) as preposterous?

I have faith in the existence of God

Good for you. My nephew has faith in the existence of Santa Clause.
He's 4 years old - for him I can accept that he believes childish things. For you? Well...you are probably (physically) an adult. But don't expect to be treated as one if you continue to believe in childish things.

You have faith in no God

As noted: No. I don't have faith in that. Faith has no place in my life (neither for nor against anything). Faith is for lazy people who don't want to know any better.
If an issue arises I can either say "I know" or "I don't know". But gods aren't even an issue - so the necessity for a choice doesn't arise. (Issues don't arise just on someone's say-so. Issues must have REAL/OBSERVABLE components to become one)
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 04, 2013
"a Chicago federal court of appeals ruled in favor of a Wisconsin inmate who claimed that the prison violated his first amendment right to practice religion." - RyggTard

And as we all know, American Courts make flawless decisions.

Atheism is not a religion but according to international human rights standards it should, as a belief or part of a belief system, be treated on an equal footing with religious faiths. It it not more difficult than that.
Howhot
1 / 5 (1) Jul 04, 2013
It's amazing, R2 can pull up page after page of quotations but I wonder if he ever thinks through the logical foundations for those quotes and whether the argument made in the quote has truthful foundations and good intent. For example, you quote an example of a preacher being denied the ability to hold a sermon on a beach, but then ask why an atheist is allow to, suggesting a double standard. First, I would have to see an Atheist give a sermon on a beach and one would have to determine if it was religious speech or free speech. If the Atheist is talking about ohh astronomy (for example), that is quite different from a sermon lecturing about a religious belief system.

If the city (in your example) allowed that, they WOULD BE violating the first amendment by sponsoring a religion. Beside, as a politician that would be opening the city to a can of worms, when every other church and denomination decided to hold there sermons on the beach taking away the beach from the citizens.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (15) Jul 04, 2013
the first living cell w

The first living cell was self-aware? So anti can't support his assertion that early humans were atheist. The earliest intentional burial of humans is 100,000 years ago:
"At Qafzeh, Israel, the remains of as many as 15 individuals were found in a cave, along with 71 pieces of red ocher and ocher-stained stone tools. The ocher was found near the bones, suggesting it was used in a ritual."
http://humanorigi...l-burial
Why would atheists ceremoniously bury their dead?
Faith has no place in my life

Of course not. At least that is what tell yourself. Faith is an integral part of being human.
If an issue arises I can either say "I know" or "I don't know".

How do you KNOW God does not exist and prove it? After all the Bible was written over hundreds of years by many different individuals. Why did they do this and why were they so insistent upon faith? And why has it endured for 5000+ years?
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 04, 2013
antialias: "No. I don't have faith in that. Faith has no place in my life"

Of course you are correct antialias - the amazing thing is that this one issue (and many like it) has been beaten to death over and over on physorg - and Ryggy just re-ignites the fire - while fighting on multiple other threads at the same time. Of course the absence of belief is not the same as faith. We can try to find metaphors to make it more clear - like - 'not being married does not make me a member of the not married club' - and - 'not believing in leprechauns does not mean that I have faith'. It is all futile. The fire will be ignited on the next thread - maybe it is just a game - maybe a mental illness - who knows.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (15) Jul 04, 2013
I would have to see an Atheist give a sermon on a beach and one would have to determine if it was religious speech or free speech.


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF ; or ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH , or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
opening the city to a can of worms,

You mean intimidation by atheists.
djr
1.5 / 5 (2) Jul 04, 2013
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

Friedrich Nietzsche

Hey - I can quote obscure, archaic philosophers too.

Ryggy - please define 'faith' for us.
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 04, 2013
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."

Richard Dawkins

"Faith: not wanting to know what is true."

Friedrich Nietzsche

ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (15) Jul 04, 2013
"According to a proper definition of biblical faith, however, it is only because of the rational justification and logical evidence available that true Christians hold to their beliefs (see Miller, 2003). What it takes to be an atheist is not biblical faith. To be an atheist, a person must choose to completely deny the concept of biblical faith and adopt an irrational allegiance to that which has been repeatedly disproven."
"Faith is a desirable characteristic by which a person assesses the available evidence and comes to a valid conclusion based on that evidence. " {Sounds like modern science}
http://www.apolog...cle=4157

"

Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith.'

Max Planck
"
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 04, 2013
"Faith is a desirable characteristic by which a person assesses the available evidence and comes to a valid conclusion based on that evidence. " {Sounds like modern science}

If that is your definition of 'faith' - then I can live with it. Atheists have assessed the available evidence, and come to the valid conclusion - based on that evidence - that there is no basis for believing in a creator. Case closed.

ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (15) Jul 04, 2013
"If faith is understood as commitment beyond independent objective certification to the truth of some overall interpretation of experience and reality, then all who commit themselves to such a Weltanschauung will be people of faith. Faith of this kind may be religious, and it may be religious without being theistic, of course, as in classical Buddhism. But there may also be non-religious faith: in particular, 'scientific' atheists may be making a faith-venture when they take there to be no more to reality than is in principle discoverable by the natural sciences. The suggestion that atheism rests on a faith-venture will, however, be strongly resisted by those who maintain 'the presumption of atheism' (Flew, 1976).""
http://plato.stan...s/faith/
Yes, strongly resisted by those who maintain a presumption of atheism.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (15) Jul 04, 2013
" It is arguable, however, that an existentially vital faith that grounds hope can belong within a wholly secular context. Annette Baier suggests that 'the secular equivalent of faith in God, which we need in morality as well as in science or knowledge acquisition, is faith in the human community and its evolving procedures—in the prospects for many-handed cognitive ambitions and moral hopes' (Baier 1980, 133)."
http://plato.stan...s/faith/
Atheists have assessed the available evidence, and come to the valid conclusion - based on that evidence - that there is no basis for believing in a creator. Case closed.


That's what YOU believe.
That's not the conclusion reached by those who have examined the evidence and concluded God must exist.

'Case closed': sounds like AGWites who stamp their feet and say, " The science is settled and don't bother me ANY data that challenges my position."
Not very scientific.
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 04, 2013
My family, frankly, they weren't folks who went to church every week. My mother was one of the most spiritual people I knew but she didn't raise me in the church, so I came to my Christian faith later in life and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead.

Barack Obama

ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 04, 2013
'Progressives' are sooo tolerant:

"Pro-choice protesters shouted, "Hail Satan!" as an attempt to drown out pro-lifers' rendition of "Amazing Grace."

"Abortion supporters are once again showing their true colors," Priests for Life National Director Fr. Frank Pavone writes of this and other inflammatory tactics of pro-abortion protesters.
- See more at: http://cnsnews.co...iOE.dpuf
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 04, 2013
"That's what YOU believe.
That's not the conclusion reached by those who have examined the evidence and concluded God must exist."

So there is evidence that leads some to conclude that God must exist. But others (Hitchens, Dawkins, et al) have examined the same evidence - and concluded that God must not exist. So we have a stand off.

To evaluate the evidence folks use to either support or deny the existence of God is of course beyond this forum. I would recommend 'The God Delusion'

But yes - it is a personal issue. So along with the libertarian leanings I often mention - I take responsibility for who I am. I don not believe in God - and do not concern myself with issue of faith. Like Antialias - I do not have faith.

ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 04, 2013
But others (Hitchens, Dawkins, et al) have examined the same evidence - and concluded that God must not exist. So we have a stand off.


There are millions more who conclude God does exist, including scientists. A consensus, so to speak.
I do not have faith.

You are free to lie to yourself.

As for anit, given the recent history of Germans, if they don't have faith they should all commit suicide. After all, they started two world wars, murdered millions. Why won't they do this again? Or do they have faith they won't allow a three-peat?
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 04, 2013
Correction:

'As for anti'...
ryggesogn2
Jul 04, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 04, 2013
"To Dr. Krauss it is liberating to think of ourselves as mere matter, purposeless matter. He enthusiastically embraced the position that we humans have no significance. At the conclusion of his remarks he boldly informed his audience, "You are far more insignificant than you ever imagined." Such is the terrible human sacrifice required by Scientism."
" In spite of the human degradation taught by his Scientism, I would guess that his wife is human, and that he treats her better than dirt. How about his children, too, and his students and coworkers?"
"Even when Dr. Krauss insists "You are far more insignificant than you ever imagined," he inadvertently reminds us that we do "imagine." We all are spirit. Without spirit there would be no science. Science is driven by spirit-including the desires for solutions to problems, satisfied curiosity, fame, reward and success."
http://www.christ...k-94442/
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 04, 2013
" After all, they started two world wars, murdered millions. "

Have you ever heard of the Native Americans Ryggy? They were slaughtered wholesale in the early history of the U.S. Are you going to commit suicide - to take responsibility for that slaughter. Same logic!

"We had better have dj and anti checked out.They must be aliens as they assert they are not human."

Your assertion is that if someone does not practice religion, then they are not human. And you hope to be taken seriously??????

"Science is driven by spirit"

Please define spirit. You keep using the messy words. I would say that science is driven by curiosity. Curiosity does not a deity in order to exist.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 04, 2013
"There are millions more who conclude God does exist, including scientists. A consensus, so to speak."

Cool - you decide your philosophy based on taking a poll. I will decide mine based on critical thinking.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 04, 2013
Your assertion is that if someone does not practice religion, then they are not human.

That's what the research from Oxford shows.
Are you going to commit suicide - to take responsibility for that slaughter. Same logic!

Not the same logic as my ancestors did not arrive in the US until 1880s.
The US govt did mistreat Indians. And the Indians mistreated each other. Many were not slaughtered but died from disease brought from Europe.
Prussian/German culture and nationalism is an inherent in their culture which lead to WWI and WWII. Why do Germans have any faith they won't be so inclined in future?
I will decide mine based on critical thinking.

If that's what you call it.
Please define spirit.

Why don't you apply your critical thinking to it and do some research?
BTW, why are you curious? What motivates your curiosity? If athesits believe humans are 'mere matter', what is the purpose of science?
kochevnik
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 04, 2013
What I find most amusing about Christianity is it's vilification of Lucifer, who in fact liberated man from a existence as an ignorant servant and put him on the path of to ever greater freedom and knowledge.
Oh yes, the famous xtian "Tree of knowledge" which split man from the beasts. Apparently heaven is a paradise where men live like animals, which would include cannibalism, parasitic relationships, wanton killing, insect politics and outright extinction due to blind ignorance of the world around

Xtians would counter that gawd made heaven with animals that fart fillets and female breasts fed all with yogurt and cheese while trees rained down fruit baskets. Only when man questioned heavenly workings did the entire system clusterfuck. Asking questions is the root of all evil
kochevnik
1.9 / 5 (9) Jul 04, 2013
Your assertion is that if someone does not practice religion, then they are not human.

That's what the research from Oxford shows.
Then giving a report on a new cancer therapy or battery technology, where the researcherers committed all their time without attending church, is clearly inhuman. Good job, ryggee. Why didn't you get a Nobel prize? Must be those socialists plotting and scheming again
Why are so many atheists bitter and obnoxious?
They sound like spoiled children who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas.
Your grasp of "sound" is akin to a cat tapping it's tail in time with Jimi Hendrix
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 04, 2013
Why are so many atheists bitter and obnoxious?
They sound like spoiled children who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas.
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 04, 2013
"Why don't you apply your critical thinking to it and do some research? "

Translation - I know not to define words any more - that really gets me into trouble - because then I have to live with the definition that I propose - much better to keep it all undefined - fits Ryggy's difficulty with complex thinking.

I will apply some critical thinking for you. Many people use the term spirit to refer to dimensions outside of our universe - that we cannot currently experience. I think that this is nonsense. I use spirit in the sense of the human spirit - meaning more about a person's mind, or character. I don't acknowledge the existence of an unseen spirit world.
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 04, 2013
"Why are so many atheists bitter and obnoxious?"

I can't speak for anyone else - but I will speak for myself. I am bitter and obnoxious because I have to live in a world with so much hate, violence, and ignorance. I am aware of the potential of the human species to transcend this condition of ignorance - but currently those of us pushing for enlightenment are outnumbered by the ignorant religionists who want to keep us shackled. The scales are tipping in the right direction - but not fast enough to assuage my bitterness and obnoxiousness.
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 04, 2013
They sound like spoiled children who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas.

"I pay taxes and anything I can do to get that money back is fair game. Because it is MY money. NOT yours OR the govts." -ryggesogn2
http://phys.org/n...html#jCp
JohnGee
1.8 / 5 (10) Jul 04, 2013
Like Antialias - I do not have faith.


"We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies,' he said. "
http://www.oxford...an-.html

We had better have dj and anti checked out.They must be aliens as they assert they are not human.

MODERATORS: Will you please do something about ryggesogn2? This is ridiculous.
Howhot
5 / 5 (1) Jul 04, 2013
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF ; or ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH , or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
R2 quotes of the 1st amendment of the USA Constitution. If Egypt had just put that into their constitution, they could stand as a shining beacon for the rest of the Middle East.

In the case of the preacher on the beach story, that is providing government support for the establishment of a religion. It's been argued in the courts and preacher lost. On the other hand Mr hypothetical Atheist is protected by the 1st because a) he's not classified as a religion, and b) he doesn't declare himself to be preacher or hold a faith. c) The atheist pays taxes, unlike the tax exempt religious organizations.

So the bottom line is Atheism is not a religion until the person makes it one as a "personal" religion.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 04, 2013
In the case of the preacher on the beach story, that is providing government support for the establishment of a religion.


It's a public beach.

Atheism is not a religion

Not according to US courts.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 04, 2013
who want to keep us shackled.

How?
Atheists are using the force of the state to shackle people who want to practice their religion, which is against the first amendment, abridging the free exercise thereof part.
Real libertarians respect others and their faith and wouldn't use, or want to use, the govt to violate the rights of others.
dj is therefore not the libertarian he claims to be.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 04, 2013
Like Antialias - I do not have faith.


"We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies,' he said. "
http://www.oxford...an-.html

We had better have dj and anti checked out.They must be aliens as they assert they are not human.

MODERATORS: Will you please do something about ryggesogn2? This is ridiculous.

What do you think? An Oxford study finds religion is a common fact of human nature. Reading the study one finds that they find all humans have some element of faith. But some claim to have no faith. Therefore they are wrong or not human, or a peer reviewed study is wrong.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 05, 2013
dj, who is being shackled?
"Obama's Department of Health and Human Services issued the final version of a regulation that orders Catholics, and other Christians who share the Catholic view that abortion is evil, to buy health insurance that covers sterilizations, artificial contraceptives, and abortion-inducing drugs. - See more at: http://www.cnsnew...rW.dpuf"
This is not a very libertarian POV and violates the free exercise of religion clause of the 1st Amendment.
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
"they find all humans have some element of faith."

No they did not. Read this quote from your article.

"Interestingly, we found that religion is less likely to thrive in populations living in cities in developed nations where there is already a strong social support network.'"

So if religion is less likely to thrive in some environments - clearly some people do not have religion. I do not have religion. Just because religion is common to all cultures - does not mean that some members of society may not have religion. You are really not capable of understanding nuance Ryggy.
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
Ryggy: "dj, who is being shackled?"

Asking that question tells me that you do not have a clue about what is happening in the world you live in. And yet you spam physorg as if you are an expert on everything.

Why do you not know that the Taliban forcibly prevent girls from going to school and learning to read? You need to pull your head out of your behind, and watch the news more often. Do you know how many Christians refuse to let their children read Harry potter - because it is evil? You see - unshackled means letting children's minds be free - to explore the universe - and explore - and form their own conclusions about the universe. Religionists are terrified of letting children think. Read Dr. Joyce Meyerss - 'Battlefield of the Mind. I will lend you a copy if you like.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 05, 2013
"Joyce Meyer's Battlefield of the Mind includes four programs that will teach you how to overcome negative thoughts and take personal responsibility for your own joy."
"What Would Jesus Think? shows you how to become a better person by correcting your own thoughts. "
Why do you recommend this?

Do seriously equate parents who care about what their children read to Taliban?

Who are 'religionists'?
Harvard was started to educate clergy.
There are many Catholic school graduates who say the nuns were tough, but they learned.

Who do you want to 'help' children form their own conclusions about the universe? How about ASU astrophysicist Paul Davies?
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
"Who do you want to help children form their own conclusions?"

People who are not afraid to let the children think for themselves. The goal of many religionists is to indoctrinate. The goal of a good parent or educator is to inspire the child - to excite the child about the amazing universe we live in.

Do you understand how I would be dumbfounded that you would be so poorly informed as to need to ask so basic a question as 'who is shackled?'

djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
"dj is therefore not the libertarian he claims to be."9
I am not a libertarian. There are aspects of the libertarian philosophy that i admire - primarily the constructs of personal responsibility, small government, and a free and open society. I differ with modern day libertarians - in that i believe there is an important role for government in protecting the public good. For example - environmental regulations have done a good job of clearing up pollution here in the u.s. I find myself siding with the left on many issues - eg. nsa surveillance programs, abortion rights, and legalization of drugs. Sorry Ryggy - i don't fit neatly in a box.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 05, 2013
find myself siding with the left on many issues

Gee, what a surprise!
You side with socialists on education, too.

"Now we know why Eric Holder is so adamant about sending the Romeike family back to Germany so that they can be coerced to attend the public schools. Barack Obama is philosophically opposed to private education.

Today in Europe he said: "If towns remain divided—if Catholics have their schools and buildings and Protestants have theirs, if we can't see ourselves in one another and fear or resentment are allowed to harden—that too encourages division and discourages cooperation."

Crush religion in the coerced homogeniety of the modern state. These words have been said before and were the prelude to very dark days at the instigation of tyrants."
Breitpbart
i don't fit neatly in a box.

Yes, you do. The box labeled socialist.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 05, 2013
People who are not afraid to let the children think for themselves.

Like parents who home school? "U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has said that home schooling is not a parent's right. " cbn.com
Or Sweden: "President of the Nordic Committee for Human Rights, went even further, branding Sweden a dictatorship where social workers tell parents what to do." cbn.com
(This sounds like what dj wants.)
Like Jesuits?
"Jesuit education takes the whole person into account and fosters not only intellectual development, but also moral and spiritual growth. Intellect and faith are seen as complementary, not contradictory. The Jesuit tradition values the richness and variety of human experience and is therefore dedicated to helping all students discover the deeper meaning and purpose in their lives while also finding their individual places in the larger society."
The goal of many religionists is to indoctrinate.

The goal of socialist govt education is to indoctrinate.
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
"Yes, you do. The box labeled socialist"

As do you - so what? You are a simplistic thinking name caller. I do not fit neatly in a box in terms of my philosophy of life. I am an Atheist, I have some libertarian leanings, and also recognize a role for government in terms of the public good. I am not happy with the public education system we have in the U.S. (or my home country of England). I recognize that they are very dysfunctional systems. Unlike you - I am very aware of what goes on in the world I live in. I am aware of child abuse and neglect, gang violence, rape, poverty, domestic violence ignorance etc. These are complex issues, and I definitely see a role for government in trying to formulate solutions. You have no solutions - only childish name calling.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 05, 2013
"The crime was simply that the Johanssons, a devout Christian couple, had pulled Domenic out of the state school and were educating him at home. It was, we should note well, perfectly within their rights by the Swedish law then in force to do this. It was also within their rights as specified by the European Union."
"The Swedish education domina has even written, openly, brazenly, that all homeschooled children should be abducted."
http://www.crisis...groaning
dj, and many who post here, (except anti, Germany outlaws home schools) would like Sweden.
The not-so-hidden agenda of BHO's opposition is to oppose socialism.
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
"The goal of socialist govt education is to indoctrinate." That is a lie - a lie told by a small minded little name caller. My children went through the public education system. It is not a good system - but when the parents are providing the primary education to the children - things can work well. Both of my kids have advanced degrees, and are very independent thinkers. Both are doing very well for themselves life wise. If the school system did any indoctrination - it was in terms of conforming to the system. They said the pledge of allegiance every morning - and I taught them that it was a lie - there is not liberty and justice for all. You are a small minded name caller - with no practical solutions - you can quote archaic philosophy, but cannot think independently.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (14) Jul 05, 2013
the public good.

At the expense of individual liberty.
I am aware of child abuse and neglect, gang violence, rape, poverty, domestic violence ignorance etc.


But you attack religion. And there are many religious based organizations who provide support to these victims.

You have no solutions -

I have no socialist solutions. I do have anti-socialist solutions, which you seem to oppose. What is your priority, atheist socialism or solutions?
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (14) Jul 05, 2013
you can quote archaic philosophy, but cannot think independently.

Unalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness is archaic philosophy?
These are requirements to think independently.
Is 'thou shall not steal' archaic philosophy?
What is 'archaic philosophy'? Provide examples.
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
"What is 'archaic philosophy'? Provide examples."

Your friend Mises - and many other archaic texts you quote from - including of course the Bible.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (14) Jul 05, 2013
there is not liberty and justice for all. You are a small minded name caller


Why is there not 'liberty and justice for all'?
The pledge is an individual commitment to the republic of the USA that was created to promote liberty and justice for all.
Where is the lie?
The fact that people are not perfect and that a govt created by, for and of the people is not perfect?
Is the system of govt (The Constitution) flawed or is it the implementation by 'progressives', who are opposed to individual liberty, at fault?
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 05, 2013
Of course at the expense of individual liberty. If the government passes a law to ban lead in gasoline - that of course takes away your liberty to drive a car with gasoline containing lead. Of course there has to be a trade off - showing that you do not understand such a basic a concept - reminds me of yesteray's conversation - where you had to ask 'what shackles'. Showing that you are not even aware that the Taliban oppresses young girls by forbidding them to go to school. You really should try to do some more reading.

"I have no socialist solutions."

You have no solutions - it is much easier to jump up and down - and say 'so and so is a socialist' You are child like in your thinking - and do not promote solutions - only childish criticisms.
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 05, 2013
"Why is there not 'liberty and justice for all'?"

Your ignorance knows no bounds. You really need to pull your head out of your behind. Just one quick example - black people who are caught using drugs go to jail far more frequently that white people do. The system is biased. So - there is not liberty and justice for all. That is where the lie is.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 05, 2013
"What is 'archaic philosophy'? Provide examples."

Your friend Mises - and many other archaic texts you quote from - including of course the Bible.


How has human nature changed the past 5000 years?
People still murder, still steal, still commit adultery, still covet.
Where is Mises wrong in 'Human Action'?
Greek literature and Shakespeare, Chaucer are still taught is quality schools because they still apply to people today.
Such 'archaic' knowledge is immaterial and should be discarded?
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. 'Archaic' philosophy from Plato, Aristotle, Kepler, Newton, Adam Smith, John Locke, .... must be discarded?
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 05, 2013
Just one quick example - black people who are caught using drugs go to jail far more frequently that white people do.

So is this a flaw in the system or in the implementation of the system?
Is the fix to let black people off for committing crimes or put more non-blacks in jail to satisfy your justice quota?
Or is the solution to support religious groups in black communities who are striving to provide a moral foundation. Or is it to get black hucksters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson out of the way, get the welfare state out of the way to promote discipline and a work ethic? Or maybe help black families?
""You cannot go to the black Muslim neighborhoods and sell drugs. They shut down drug dealers," Cosby said, comparing Christian and black Muslin neighborhoods. "
http://rollingout...ference/
Cosby noted what works. Where are the atheist results?
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 05, 2013
You probably didn't attend this in Tulsa:
http://www.jhfcen...mposium/
Theologians were present.

What is more important to you dj, atheism or results?

I am engineer, not a scientist. I like Koen's definition of engineering:
"The engineering method is "the strategy for causing the best change in a poorly understood or uncertain situation within the available resources and the use of heuristics."
At the heart of his definition is the concept that engineering is an approximation to reality"
Engineering and Theology: Approximations to Reality: William Jordan
Baylor University
Engineering Metaphysics Conference
Tulsa

Another interesting conference in Tulsa!
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 05, 2013
he Taliban oppresses young girls by forbidding them to go to school.

Taliban forced men to grow beards. They beat women who wore high heels or did anything, even wearing an abaya, that would tempt a man to look at her.
Taliban murder Jews and Christians.
So if Taliban let girts attend school, dj would like the Taliban?
"Taliban Executes Woman in Front of Cheering Crowd in Afghanistan " http://www.humane...n-video/
"The Obama administration continues to hope that talks with the Taliban will lead to a smoother and more peaceful end to America's 12-year war in Afghanistan."
http://www.usnews...hanistan
Where is dj's outrage at BHO for returning Taliban to power?
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 05, 2013
"So if Taliban let girts attend school, dj would like the Taliban?"

You complete idiot - you asked me for an example of shackles that are caused by religionists - and I gave you one. Now you elaborate on said example. The point was that you needed me to point it out to you in the first place. You asked - "what shackles" - and I showed you. I could also show you the mormons who enslave little girls, or the Christians who beat little children because they are witches, or the Christians who will not give their children medical treatment - and let them die, etc. etc. etc. The point is that you had to ask the question - that you do not know what is going on in the world you live in - so you are an example of those shackles - you are a religionist who can quote Mises all day long - but you cannot see what is happening in front of you eyes - that is the point.....
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 05, 2013
"Where is dj's outrage at BHO for returning Taliban to power?"

dj is plenty outraged - and also for the NSA outrage that is going on. Contrary to your misinformation - dj is not an apologist for the bad things that President Obama does - I definitely wish he would pull all of our troops home - shut down every military base in other countries - and keep or money in our own economy.

Where is Ryggys outrage that President Reagan loved the Taliban - or of how chummy chummy President Bush was with Vladimir Putin the terrible?

Check out these pictures Ryggy - see how complex the world actually is

http://whitenoise...e-house/
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 05, 2013
And I showed how 'religionists' have promoted education for centuries. If not for 'religionist' monks, much archaic knowledge would be lost.
Bottom line is dj is more of an evangelical atheist dedicated to what socialists must do, stamp out religion, than recognizing the enormous positive impact religion has had on Western Civilization, and working in good faith (wait, dj said he has no faith, good or bad so he can't work in good faith) to solve the problems he asserts makes him bitter and obnoxious.
And this highlights why socialism leads to mental disorders. Socialists insist central planning by experts is the only way to solve (pick a problem). And when the masses don't respond appropriately to being 'planned' they get upset and 'plan' more. What socialists won't admit to others and themselves, is they are more interested in power and control than really solving a problem.
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
"What is more important to you dj, atheism or results?"

I don't think they are exclusive - in fact - I am looking forward to the day when the scales tip - and we are able to have an honest and robust conversation in our world about the damage that religion causes - and I believe that when that day comes - we will become more solution oriented. I am not pollyanna - I am very aware that there is a lot of hatred and bigotry in the atheist community - there are robust debates going on right now about how to deal with this problem - so far really no solutions - only acknowledgement of the extent of the problem. Check out the elevator incident as one example of that process https://en.wikipe...a_Watson
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 05, 2013
I definitely wish he would pull all of our troops home - shut down every military base in other countries


How do YOU plan to help those poor Taliban girls?

Yes, the world is complex when communists are pointing nuclear weapons at you and when 'liberals' like Carter do like dj suggests enabling the USSR to invade Afghanistan and for Iranian Muslim radicals to take US citizens hostage for 444 days.
Charlie Wilson had the right idea, but Congress refused follow up in Afghanistan.
we will become more solution oriented

As long as any religion is not part of the solution?
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 05, 2013
As long as any religion is not part of the solution? Hopefully it will not - but that will be determined by those formulating the solutions.

How do YOU plan to help those poor Taliban girls?

I don't - I have more than I can cope with taking care of myself. We have been at war with the Taliban since 2001. Have we won yet? Maybe we cannot fix all of the world's problems with our war machine. We killed 100 million people in Vietnam - with the expressed goal of containing the North - and then we left - and the North took over. So it seems that war is not a good solution. I would be lying if I sad I had the answers to all the world's problems - so would you. I don't need to get into that debate today - especially when I am talking to someone who knows so little about what is going on in the world. Here is a suggestion - stop arguing so childishly with me - go read some history books, and turn on the news. You are woefully uneducated about your world - and a waste of time to arg
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 05, 2013
and then we left - and the North took over.

Thanks to the 'liberals'.
War is not the problem. The problem is not first winning the war. Allies obtained the unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan and unlike what happened after WWI, the Allies proceeded to rebuild Germany and Japan.
Unless the country is committed to declaring war and then winning the war, war should not be an option.
I understand the argument why MacArthur was not allowed to defeat North Korea and why the US did not want to commit to real victory in Vietnam. But Patton was correct. The USSR should have been destroyed in 1945.
Korea and Vietnam were battles in the Cold War with the USSR and eventually the US defeated the USSR.
Iraq and Afghanistan were essentially mop up actions, but the US was not committed to do what it would take to win the strategic war with Iran.
It doesn't help when so many socialists sympathize and collaborate with our enemies.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 05, 2013
How do YOU plan to help those poor Taliban girls?

I support committing to winning in Afghanistan.
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 05, 2013
Ryggy - I am not going to debate the issue of war with you. You have proven that you do not know what is going on in our world. Why would anyone listen to your opinion on a subject as complex as international affairs? Like I said - go read some history books - turn on the news - educate yourself.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 05, 2013
am not going to debate the issue of war with you.

I understand. Great Britain did loose their empire, and were forced to retreat from their colonies in the Americas by a rag-tag band who only had 30% support from the colonists, so you really don't have much credibility in this area.
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 05, 2013
"so you really don't have much credibility in this area." Wow - your childishness knows no bounds. The point here is not what happened 200 years ago between Britain and the U.S. - the point is your obvious lack of current knowledge of the world you live in.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 05, 2013
"I support committing to winning in Afghanistan." - RyggTard

How many more people do you commit to murdering? Fascist.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 05, 2013
"the point is your obvious lack of current knowledge of the world you live in." - dir

RyggTard lives in the 1800's and has on multiple occasions stated that he wants to return America to those good oll days of ignorance, pestilence and premature death.

VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 05, 2013
"The USSR should have been destroyed in 1945." - RyggTard

How many more millions of people did you want America to murder?
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 05, 2013
"We killed 100 million people in Vietnam" - dir

3 million.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 05, 2013
"I would be lying if I sad I had the answers to all the world's problems" - dir

The solution is equity in all things. Simple equity. The abolition of privilege based on position, race, family, money, nationality, etc. The rest will follow.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 05, 2013
"How do YOU plan to help those poor Taliban girls?" - dir

Trivial... Remove them they wish to leave.

If they wish to stay, there is no problem.

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 05, 2013
"the world is complex when communists are pointing nuclear weapons at you" - RyggTard

Why were you pointing your nuclear weapons at them?

Perhaps they were concerned that people like you would try to murder millions of their citizens?

Don't you remember saying just a couple of posts ago...

"The USSR should have been destroyed in 1945." - RyggTard

Poor RyggTard. Alzheimers is coming early.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 05, 2013
"Carter do like dj suggests enabling the USSR to invade Afghanistan and for Iranian Muslim radicals to take US citizens hostage for 444 days." - RyggTard

Perhaps TardieBoy would tell us how Carter allowed the USSR to invade Afghanistan, when the invasion occurred after Ronald Reagan was elected.

And as to the American Hostages in Iran, RyggTard just can't seem to remember that the hostage taking was in retaliation to America's military support for an Iranian dictator - the Shaw, who had killed tens of thousands of people with American acquiescence.

Was Carter supposed to cure the Shaw's cancer? Or was he to murder Khomeini before he could return to Iran?

How many people would RyggTard have murdered to prevent these things?

ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 05, 2013
lack of current knowledge of the world you live in.

To understand the present one must understand the past.
JohnGee
1.9 / 5 (9) Jul 05, 2013
You understand neither.
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 05, 2013
"We killed 100 million people in Vietnam" - dir

3 million.

Thanks Vendi - I meant to write 100 thousand. Your number seems more accurate - it is apparently difficult to know the total count - due to things like carpet bombing - who knows how many people were in the jungle when the bombs hit?
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 05, 2013
"I think that one of the greatest mistakes that America made was to allow women the opportunity to vote. We should have never turned that over to women."
"It was a big mistake…these women are voting in the wrong people. They're voting in people who are evil, who agree with them…Men in the good old days understood the nature of the women, they were not afraid to deal with them." - Jesse Lee Peterson (born May 22, 1949) is president and founder of The Brotherhood Organization of A New Destiny (BOND), an American group dedicated to a conservative agenda among African Americans.

Peterson is also the Founder and President of BOND Action, Inc., a nonprofit, 501 (c) (4) organization. In 2011, Peterson founded the South Central LA Tea Party (SCLATP), a black led Tea Party group
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 05, 2013
"To understand the present one must understand the past." - RyggTard

Difficult for Christian Republicans to do when they believe the world is only 6,000 years old or when they believe their evidence free, fantasy Gawad created the universe in 6 days, or when they deny evolution, or the science of global warming,

Conservatives like you are Morons aren't they?

VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 05, 2013
"Taliban murder Jews and Christians." - RyggTard

Why were they the good friends of Ronald Reagan who provided them will hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid?

Why did George Bush provide them with 50 million U.S. dollars 2 months before he decided upon committing his campaign of war crimes in Afghanistan and Iraq?

VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 05, 2013
"Why is there not 'liberty and justice for all'?" - RyggTard

Not in Conservative America where money purchases justice.

But that is part of the Libertarian/Randit Ideology isn't it?
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 05, 2013
" for the years 1945 to 1956 the Vietnamese communists likely killed 242,000 to 922,000 people "
'60-'75: N.Vietnam/Viet Cong war dead: ~1.011 million; S.Vietnam war dead, civilians: 391,000; S.Vietnam military: 219,000; US: 47,000;
'45-'87: Total Vietnam war dead: ~2.5 million
'49-'56: Vietnamese democide: 415,000; French democide: 10,000
http://www.hawaii...6.1A.GIF
"For all Vietnam, Hanoi killed about 1 percent of those Vietnamese under its control, or near 1 out of every 901 people per year. "
http://www.hawaii...HAP6.HTM
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 05, 2013
"Where is dj's outrage at BHO for returning Taliban to power?" - RyggTard

The Taliban have never been out of power, at least not here on planet earth.

Perhaps they were on whatever fantasy planet you live on.

Planet LiberToon.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 05, 2013
" for the years 1945 to 1956 the Vietnamese communists likely killed 242,000 to 922,000 people "

American Capitalists killed 3 million.

ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (19) Jul 05, 2013
"The international community should focus on the true root of conflict in the Middle East, which is the human rights violations occurring in the Muslim world."
"Presently, whether 94,000 or 120,000 Syrians have perished, more Syrians have been killed within the last two years than the total number of causalities from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict between 1948 and 2009. Aside from the horrific death toll, Syrian civilians are getting tortured and raped en masse, while entire population centers are getting leveled to the ground."
"he situation for Egypt's Jewish and Coptic minorities have also significantly worsened. Copts have gotten massacred since Mubarak fell from power, illustrating that Egypt is not a safe place for Christians, unlike Israel, which is the safest place for Christians in the entire Middle East. "
http://www.jewish...0/?print

VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 06, 2013
"The international community should focus on the true root of conflict in the Middle East, " - RyggTard

Which is the Murderous, thieving, criminal nation of Israel.

It is amusing to watch RyggTard proclaim statism as evil and yet spend his time defending the Murderous Israeli state.

Moron.

ryggesogn2
1.9 / 5 (18) Jul 06, 2013
"The self-esteem movement hurt our public schools and degraded the curriculum. The self-esteem time bomb is now coming full circle, as the victims of our schools, colleges, and universities have moved into leadership of our country."
"Obama's ineptness is exceeded only by his giant ego. Obama received a "to be determined" Nobel Peace Prize in the naked hope that he might do something later to promote peace. This is self-esteem taken to a ridiculous extreme -- but in real life. But wait: Isn't that exactly what the liberal educational approach teaches in our schools and even in our universities and law schools?"
"Henry Ford claimed that he wasn't all that smart, but he succeeded by hiring people smarter than he. But the difference is he could admit his own strengths and weaknesses and take action to compensate.

The most important sentence in The Amateur is: "He doesn't know what he doesn't know."

http://www.americ...tim.html
JohnGee
2.5 / 5 (11) Jul 06, 2013
Obama's ineptness
But he's also a socialist mastermind that has turned the US into a totalitarian dictatorship with most of the populace having no idea, right? Ever heard that saying about having your cake and eating it too?

The most important sentence in The Amateur is: "He doesn't know what he doesn't know."
You are one of the clearer examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect I've come across. Darwin said it better, "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 06, 2013
"The self-esteem movement hurt our public schools and degraded the curriculum." - Jonathon Moseley

And who is this nobody Jonathon Moseley?

He is a whack tard Tea-Bagger of course. Part of the Republican Echo Chamber of nobodies using the proclamations of other nobodies to support their evidence free beliefs and accusations.

http://www.mother...t-muslim

Mosley asserts that Obama is a Muslim because he once recited the call to prayer that he had memorized as a child, to a reporter over the phone.

Such is the desperation of the Republican deceit machine.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 07, 2013
A little note on RyggTard's latest source of Republican Faux news concerning Obama.

Public records and court filings reveal that he has a 27-year criminal record, with a specialty in crimes involving deceit. The record includes forgery charges in two states, one of which drew Sinclair a 16-year jail sentence. The Pueblo County, Colo., Sheriff's Office also has an outstanding warrant for Sinclair's arrest for forging an acquaintance's signature and stealing her tax refunds.

So we have RyggTard - a congenital liar, using another Congenital liar as a reference to slander his own president.

That is what Republicans do. That is what Republicans are.

Republicans are deceit.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (17) Jul 07, 2013
I find it ironic that VD who wants to be the son of the father of all lies, is accusing someone else of lying.

Very Progressive of you VD. Accuse someone of something you love to commit.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 07, 2013
"I find it ironic that VD who wants to be the son of the father of all lies, is accusing someone else of lying." - FreeTard

FreeTard who is a chronic liar, is so desperate he is now lying about other people lying.

I challenge him to provide a single example.

Watch the coward run.

freethinking
1.7 / 5 (18) Jul 09, 2013
Obama supporters have no issues with repealing the bill of rights.....

http://www.youtub...e0cqHH20
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (18) Jul 09, 2013
Obama supporters have no issues with repealing the bill of rights.....

http://www.youtub...e0cqHH20

Obamites sign petition to ban petition signing. I'm not surprised.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (17) Jul 09, 2013
The only rights Obama supporters care about is the right to have Homosexual Sex, the right to kill unborn children, and the right to call anyone who disagrees with Obama a racist.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (19) Jul 10, 2013
Not so hidden agenda of 'progressives':
"The education establishment might claim that it's not their fault. They're not responsible for the devastation caused by female-headed families, drugs, violence and the culture of dependency. But they are totally responsible for committing gross educational fraud. It's educators who graduated Jeantel from elementary and middle school and continued to pass her along in high school. It's educators who will, in June 2014, confer upon her a high-school diploma.

It's not just Florida's schools. According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress, nationally most black 12th-graders test either basic or below basic in reading, writing, math and science. "
http://townhall.c...n1636072
VendicarE
2 / 5 (4) Jul 10, 2013
God American's are soooooooo stupid.

http://www.youtub...pEpMK7FE

South Dakota GOP and thermological astrology.

http://www.youtub...C5DB36CC
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 10, 2013
VendicarE
2.4 / 5 (5) Jul 10, 2013
"The Coming Civil War: Producers Vs. Parasites " - Free Republic

"Parasites must perish" - Ayn Rand

http://www.freere...45/posts
Howhot
3.7 / 5 (6) Jul 11, 2013
Freethink says
The only rights Obama supporters care about is the right to have Homosexual Sex, the right to kill unborn children, and the right to call anyone who disagrees with Obama a racist.

Excuse me; do you even have a right to speak? It seems you have the typical mindset of the moron class, Racist, gay, and all up in controlling women. In other words, how much hate to you want to spread around? I've never heard a logical argument for your three points, so let me give it to you in three simple ways; Sex = Love, Pregnant Women = Sex (loved and wanted or forced, raped, distressed, too young, too old, too poor, too rich, to drugged, too deformed, too deadly, too dangerous... too etc) and Racist = You.

There is a great scene in the movie "Easy Rider" where these guys are driving down the road on their choppers; "You know, this used to be a helluva good country. I can't understand what's gone wrong with it." while he flips you the bird.
Howhot
3.7 / 5 (6) Jul 11, 2013
Obama supporters have no issues with repealing the bill of rights.....

http://www.youtub...e0cqHH20

Obamites sign petition to ban petition signing. I'm not surprised.

Geeze; you guys are such dups. It's staged just like the Acorn crap was staged. Of course you guys will believe anything if it comes out of a Fox run chicken coup.

ryggesogn2
1.9 / 5 (17) Jul 11, 2013
staged just like the Acorn crap was staged.

It's called a sting.
No one was forcing people to be stupid.
'Acorn crap'? Are you upset Acorn was caught committing voter fraud or upset they were committing voter fraud?
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (16) Jul 11, 2013
Howhot, you are typical Progressive. Were you one of those that signed the petition to eliminate the bill of rights as you asked of me "do you even have a right to speak"

According to the Bill of Rights, which Progressives such as you disdain, I do!

As for being called a racist I find that funny. Unlike you and other Progressives I judge a person by their character and not the color of their skin. It is mainly Progressives that use racial and sexual pejoratives against people of color or women who are Conservatives. If Conservatives would use such language, they would be accused of racism and sexism, yet typical of Progressive, they are silent when they do it.

Only idiots fail to see that Progressives = Hypocrites.
JohnGee
2.2 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2013
'Acorn crap'? Are you upset Acorn was caught committing voter fraud or upset they were committing voter fraud?
That wasn't even the scandal, and the scandal was manufactured.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 11, 2013
"No one was forcing people to be stupid." - RyggTard

So what's your excuse then? Brain death? Recurrent Strokes? Brain Cancer?

30 percent of Americans can't find their own country on an unnamed map of the world.

Most Republicans still think that WMD were found in Iraq.

All you are doing is providing more evidence that Americans are idiots. But then we can figure that out for ourselves simply by watching American news and laughing.

http://www.youtub...y4Jbp4Bc

http://www.youtub...3WCarLf8
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 11, 2013
"Are you upset Acorn was caught committing voter fraud " - RyggTard

The fraud is you claiming it is fraud when the entire thing was staged for the cameras.

Moron.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (19) Jul 11, 2013
"Yet another former ACORN employee was convicted of voter fraud last week. This brings the total number of convictions for former workers from the embattled group to at least 15 so far this year."

Read more: http://dailycalle...YmcRducT
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (18) Jul 11, 2013
rygg, quit telling the truth and join the Progressive side.

Repeat after me, ACORN GOOD, they never committed voter fraud. If you can say that 10 times without breaking out in laughter, then you can become a lying progressive like VD and Johngee.

Remember the great Progressive Bill Clinton, you need to define every word, even the word 'is", so you need to ask what Progressives consider voter fraud. Progressives like VD and JohnGee do not consider, illegals voting, dead people voting, intimidation of conservative voters, voting multiple times, creating "lost Ballots", etc to be voter fraud IF it is done to elect a Progressive.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (20) Jul 11, 2013
"how the roots of the Holocaust lay in a dry run genocide carried out by the Germans (who else?) in German South-West Africa (now Namibia) in the 1900s against the Herero and Namaqua natives. Around 80 per cent of the former tribe and 50 per cent of the latter were brutally massacred with many of the survivors sent to concentration camps where their racial characteristics were studied by proto-Dr-Mengeles as part of the fashionable new scientific field popularised by Francis Galton – eugenics."
"Racism wasn't some backward-looking reactionary ideology: it was the state of the art and people then believed in it as readily as people today BUY the theory of man-made climate change.""
Harrison Brown: ""Thus we could sterilize or in other ways discourage the mating of the feeble-minded."
Obama's science czar, Holdren, praised Brown.
http://blogs.tele...ugenics/
At least the Brit press isn't in the tank for BHO.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 11, 2013
You just have to love these TeaPublican WhcakTards.

Is it any wonder why America is a has been nation?

OBAMA GAVE CHINA PERMISSION TO iNVADE THE UNITED STATES FROM THE PACIFIC OCEAN WHEN THE DOLLAR DIES

http://www.youtub...iJeUH6bU

Brain death, thy party is TeaPublican
Howhot
3.7 / 5 (6) Jul 11, 2013
The freeper among us say;
Repeat after me, ACORN GOOD, they never committed voter fraud. If you can say that 10 times without breaking out in laughter
No, Acorn was doing it's job of political activism to help intercity minorities become more politically active and involved in their communities. They registered voters. Unfortunately from your political perspective, Acorn is the exact opposite teaparty.

Intercity are taxpayers too don't forget, and citizens as well. Many in the intercity have been dealt a hand you or I could not deal with. However, the one items that has the potential to lift them up is they are citizens and have a right to vote. They have a right to representation otherwise, why are they being taxed. And if you are poor don't think they don't pay anything, there is always a sales tax somewhere. Conservatives would like nothing better than to see entire urban populations fall off the map, then the map would be totally red and you win.


Howhot
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 11, 2013
The freethunk said earlier
As for being called a racist I find that funny. Unlike you and other Progressives I judge a person by their character and not the color of their skin.
Prove it.
Look, freepper... I'm not trying to finger point or blame stuff on race relations. I'm certainly not passing accusations or blame around. People will always have pre-disposed preferences based on culture, but to work together we need to work to get over that.

Unlike nearly all other countries, we are a cultural melting pot like it or not. If you go to China, everyone is Chinese, Africa the same. Come to America and it's awesome. Rich, poor, black, white, upside down, and sideways; when we trust each-other, work together and respect each other, amazing things happen. We put a men on the moon, not once but seven times. We made the transistor, etc.

VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 12, 2013
Documenting the spectacular ignorance of Conservatives.

http://www.youtub...nrvcS6AQ
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (18) Jul 12, 2013
when we trust each-other, work together and respect each other, amazing things happen.

Tell that to the lying president and his fellow travelers.
Acorn is the exact opposite teaparty.

Yes because tea party members follow the law.
Conservatives would like nothing better than to see entire urban populations fall off the map,

'Progressives' need to commit fraud to keep their base. In MA, after months of refusing the request of state legislator, the states' welfare dept handed over EBT records. EBTs are debit accounts democrat voters and illegal aliens can use to buy just about anything as cash can be extracted. There are no photos on the cards. Some have accounts in the thousands. Witnesses describe people filling grocery carts with prime meats, using their welfare EBT and driving off in luxury cars.
And BHO little brother, Patrick is finally embarrassed enough to sign legislation to put photo ID on the cards.
Search EBT and Boston for more data.
JohnGee
2.3 / 5 (9) Jul 12, 2013
Yes because tea party members follow the law.
Tax evasion is against the law.

Witnesses describe people filling grocery carts with prime meats, using their welfare EBT and driving off in luxury cars.
Which end of your ass did you pull that out of?

EBTs are debit accounts democrat voters and illegal aliens
You're such an obvious troll. If you aren't a troll I have a wall I'd like you to stand in front of.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 12, 2013
"Tell that to the lying president and his fellow travelers." - RyggTard

George Bush is out of office, and isn't much of a listener.

Don't you think it would be just better to prosecute the lying traitor for war crimes?

Doing so might actually earn the U.S. some international respect.

Don't you agree?

freethinking
1.7 / 5 (18) Jul 12, 2013
JohnGee, Tea Party leaders and supporters pay their taxes, and still they are singled out and audited by the IRS. While Progressive groups get special treatment, Progressive/Democratic leaders, while calling on everyone else to pay more, fail to pay taxes,
http://www.freere...79/posts
http://www.creato...hem.html
http://www.latime...6.column

The truth is, Progressives are Hypocrites, demanding everyone pay more taxes, while they themselves don't.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (17) Jul 12, 2013
So did Clinton, Al Gore lie about WMD in Iraq as well? Or did they evolve on the subject....
See....You always need to define terms with Progressives. IS can mean different things, just ask Clinton,

Lie, which most people define as the deliberate misleading people, for Progressives means any mistake by anyone not a Progressive, even if it wasn't intentional.

and it isn't lying for a Progressive to deliberately mislead anyone IF it is for the Cause of Progressivism.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 12, 2013
"Yes because tea party members follow the law." - RyggTard

Tea Party Gun-Nut Arrested, Posted Liberal Kill List AATTP February 22, 2013

http://aattp.org/...t-video/

Tea party's Mark Meckler arrested on gun charge

http://www.cbsnew...-charge/

Greensboro NC Tea Party protestor arrested Tax Day, April 15,

http://www.youtub...y-vUvln0

Tea Party founder arrested on drug charges

http://heraldbull...-charges
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 12, 2013
"So did Clinton, Al Gore lie about WMD in Iraq as well?" - FreeTardO

Because they didn't.

FreeTarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 12, 2013
"Tea Party leaders and supporters pay their taxes, and still they are singled out and audited by the IRS." - FreeTard

Good.

Those who claim that they have no obligation to pay taxes SHOULD be targeted for investigation of tax invasion.

You know. it's kinda like investigating NAMBLA members for child molestation.

Don't you agree FreeTardO?

freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Jul 12, 2013
So VD, your saying that the Obama administration should direct the IRS to target those that pay their taxes for additional scrutiny and persecution, yet give a free pass to those that are KNOWN not to?

Did you happen to sign the petition to void the bill of rights?

ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (18) Jul 12, 2013
"There is a woman ahead of us with a child about 4 years old. The woman, I couldn't help but notice....had beautiful fingernails, clearly professionally done...and I also noticed her brand new IPHONE...which she was talking on, and I think that is rude while you are being checked out. Her little girl was commenting on the TWO live lobsters in a bag on the checkout, asked if it was going to hurt when they get cooked, her mom brushed her off...at that time I took a look at what else she had on the counter...A HUGE roast, sirloin tips, shrimp, beef ribs and pork ribs...only the prime cuts... I thought to myself....mmmmmm someone is having a yummy dinner and must have a great job as I could not afford these things (not that I'd get my nails done anyway)....

So...the cashier gives her a total and what does she pull out of her wallet but a BENEFIT card!!!!!!! I had all I could do to contain myself..."
http://theeconomi...to-buy-p
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (18) Jul 12, 2013
"Prime Meat Market is listed as an Indiana EBT Card accepting store located in Indianapolis, IN. "
http://www.ebtcar...a-st3234
"St Joe Prime Meat Co is a store that accepts your MISSOURI food stamps."
http://www.foodst...MISSOURI
"As many middle-class Americans struggle with their own bills and needs they forgo the nice dinners to pay–through taxes–for those enrolled in SNAP. Food stamp dependents than can use their "benefits" card to routinely eat a steak dinners or gorge on unhealthy junk foods and soda. "
http://www.bulwar...endency/
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (18) Jul 12, 2013
"U.S. Senator David Vitter says he is outraged after an undercover investigation revealed 'free Obama cell phones' are being sold for drugs, shoes and handbags."
"TracFone, the largest beneficiary of the free cell phones, receiving more than $1.5 billion and $440 million in 2012 from the free cell phone program, recently ran attack ads against Vitter due to his efforts to eliminate the fraudulent program."
http://nwlabusine...s-money/
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (17) Jul 12, 2013
Yes because tea party members follow the law
They do?

"More shocking accusations about people from the "Christian Party of Law and Order"

"The San Diego Tea Party Public Relations Spokesman has been charged with rape, kidnapping, and forcible sex with a foreign object. The evidence against him includes convenience store CCTV.

"Michael John Kobulnicky, 50, is the Public Relations spokesperson of the San Diego Tea Party and the former regional director of the Southern California Conservative Party."

-I am sure he checked with his priest first. Because

"They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh"
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (14) Jul 12, 2013
So...the cashier gives her a total and what does she pull out of her wallet but a BENEFIT card!!!!!!! I had all I could do to contain myself..."
"Yes, let them eat tastykake!" says ryggy.
http://tastykake.com/

Yum.
"U.S. Senator David Vitter says he is outraged after an undercover investigation revealed 'free Obama cell phones' are being sold for drugs, shoes and handbags."
-And as we know the drug trade is one of the few examples of free markets we can find. And no govt supports it except the ones it purchases, which is also an expression of ingenuity and enterprise.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 12, 2013
'Progressives' need to commit fraud to keep their base
No I think you meant conservatives

"A Virginia Republican and supporter of former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA) pleaded guilty on Tuesday to perjury and 36 counts of voter fraud.

Adam Ward, 28, claimed he collected more than 11,000 petition signatures for Gingrich during the Republican presidential primaries, in an effort to ensure the candidate's embattled campaign had a spot on the state's ballot. Over 4,000 of those petition signatures turned out to be fake, according to NBC News affiliate WVIR-TV."

-This is too easy. It takes me 2 MINUTES to find something which makes you look silly.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (16) Jul 12, 2013
"TracFone, the largest beneficiary of the free cell phones..." Hmmm...

"The legal document alleges that TCOV lobbied against Slim's acquisition of TracFone and SimpleMobile, which are recipients of U.S. government mobile-phone subsidies for the poor, despite not being registered as a lobbyist or other type of political committee. "TCOV is heavily engaged in advocating for regulatory and legislative action in California," the complaint states. It also states that multiple California politicians, including State Senators Kevin De Leon [D] and Ricardo Lara [D], and State Assembly members Das Williams [D] and Nancy Skinner [D], either participated in TCOV's events or were engaged in other activities against Slim's companies in California."

-Well thats odd. Why would latinos and dems be against some mexican billionaire acquiring a company that benefits the most from one of their socialist welfare programs?
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (16) Jul 12, 2013
Otto, You fail to see the difference. One is a group, aka ACORN, gets government money, is supported by Democrats, gets caught, is then protected by the Government and media, but once the evidence is overwhelming all they do is change their name while they still get government money and support form Progressives.

The second, an individual committed fraud, is disavowed by the person he commits fraud for, and is punished.

Conservatives have standards, and according to Conservatives, committing fraud for any group is a crime and should be punished.

Progressives are Hypocrites. Just going by Progressive track record, committing fraud is OK if it's done for the progressive cause and paid for by Government funds.

freethinking
1.7 / 5 (18) Jul 12, 2013
Otto, btw, that fellow convicted of rape is now qualified to run as a Democrat.

Again the difference is, Democrats relish filth and take it as a per-requisite for elected office, while Republicans don't.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 12, 2013
yet give a free pass to those that are KNOWN not to?
More lies. The biggest tax evaders are the big corporations.

"...the largest companies (those with assets greater than $5
billion) had the greatest percentage of firms with a tax deficiency (74 percent) and
the highest proposed deficiency rate (14.6 percent, versus a range of 9.9 percent to
13.4 percent for the other six groups)."

"...managers of corporations whose profit performance is below its
industry norm may utilize tax noncompliance as a strategy to cut costs."

"private companies have higher proposed deficiency rates than public companies (17.1
percent versus 12.5 percent)"

"the percentage of annual executive compensation in the form of bonuses and the level
of equity incentives from exercisable stock options are positively related to the
proposed tax deficiency"

http://darp.lse.a...P07).pdf
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (14) Jul 12, 2013
-Followed by the self-employed, who are the main proponents of your free-marketeering and libertarian ideals.

"Self-employment business income is not subject to information reports, and its estimated noncompliance rate is sharply higher.

"An estimated 57 percent of nonfarm proprietor income is not reported, a
total of $68 billion, which by itself accounts for more than a third of the total
estimated underreporting for the individual income tax. As with prior estimates of
the individual income tax underreporting gap, over half is attributable to the
underreporting of business income, of which nonfarm proprietor income is the
largest component."
Otto, btw, that fellow convicted of rape is now qualified to run as a Democrat.

Again the difference is, Democrats relish filth and take it as a per-requisite for elected office, while Republicans don't
He committed those crimes.while was a republican you dimwit.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (13) Jul 12, 2013
Conservatives have standards, and according to Conservatives, committing fraud for any group is a crime and should be punished
-And how long do you think it would take me to google 'republican crime' and post 10 or 20 examples of corruption, fraud, money laundering, racketeering, tax evasion, sexual impropriety and so forth committed by republicans you freeking moron?

I remember someone posting the link to a site where someone had compiled a nice long list.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 12, 2013
If you haven't noticed, most Republicans today are NOT conservatives.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (16) Jul 12, 2013
rygg, while I agree that most Republicans are not conservatives, conservatives in general do not tolerate crime and scandals, sexism, and racism in the Republican party.

However Progressives tolerate and even promote those evils in the Democratic party.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 12, 2013
rygg, while I agree that most Republicans are not conservatives, conservatives in general do not tolerate crime and scandals, sexism, and racism in the Republican party.

However Progressives tolerate and even promote those evils in the Democratic party.

Ever hear of Gary Studds?
How about Barney Frank whose boyfriend ran a bordello out of Barney's house and bed? Or Spitzer or Wiener or Clintons, Kennedys (all of them) ...?
Fraud and immorality are all that is required to become a 'progressive'.
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 12, 2013
"An important component of the argument of F. A. Hayek's The Road to Serfdom is that those people likely to derive utility from directing and ordering others will come to occupy the positions at the top of a government hierarchy in a centrally planned economy because more tolerant and conciliatory individuals would not be attracted to such work. It is for this reason, Hayek argued, that in a socialist polity 'the worst get on top'."
"we should expect that the people most willing to work to attain political office will be those who expect to gain the most from holding it. "
http://www.iea.or...c-choice
So true.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (17) Jul 12, 2013
Perversion and corruption gets republicans kicked out of office.
Perversion and corruption gets democrats elected.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 12, 2013
Not so hidden agenda of BHOs fellow travelers.

"Sutton recalled that al-Mansour said that "there is a young man that has applied to Harvard. I know that you have a few friends up there because you used to go up there to speak. Would you please write a letter in support of him?" Sutton did.

The story is given credibility by a November 1979 column by Chicago Tribune columnist Vernon Jarrett with the title: "Will Arabs Back Ties To Blacks With Cash?"

The late Vernon Jarrett was the father-in-law of Valerie Jarrett, who would go on to become Barack Obama's closest friend and White House adviser. Mr. Jarrett was was a former Chicago communist and a colleague of Frank Marshall Davis, the former Chicago journalist and Communist Party activist who moved to Hawaii in the late 1940s and years later befriended Stanley and Madelyn Dunham and their daughter Stanley Ann, mother of Barack Obama."
http://gulagbound...-mentor/
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 12, 2013
Anyone surprised?
"Despite the outright admission from Filner he was engaging in sexual harassment, the Democratic Party's national women leaders have not said anything about the matter. Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Barbara Boxer (D-CA) have released no statements, nor has House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Democratic National Committee chairwoman Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) has also remained silent."
http://www.breitb...rassment
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 12, 2013
Tea party Republicans flocking to appear Monday at white nationalist-connected march

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, Iowa Rep. Steve King, former Rep. Allen West and Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions are all planning to appear at an anti-immigration reform rally held by a group with close connections to the white nationalist movement. According to Right Wing Watch, the Black American Leadership Association (BALA) is not the grass-roots organization it purports to be, but rather a longstanding cabal of anti-immigration activists who have "deep connections" to white nationalist John Tanton, a man the Southern Poverty Law Center calls "the racist architect of the modern anti-immigrant movement."

http://www.rawsto...d-march/
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 12, 2013
"Tea Party leaders and supporters pay their taxes, and still they are singled out and audited by the IRS." - FreeTard

Good.

Those who claim that they have no obligation to pay taxes SHOULD be targeted for investigation of tax invasion.

You know. it's kinda like investigating NAMBLA members for child molestation.

Don't you agree FreeTardO?

ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (20) Jul 12, 2013
"As a youth, Rafael Cruz got involved in the Cuban revolution and heard messages of "hope and change" from Fidel Castro. Cruz said that Castro began attacking religion and freedom of the press, he instituted socialized medicine, and he destroyed free enterprise.
In 2013, he says, he is shocked to see a government in the United States promoting socialist policies, which he says he easily recognizes because of his experience in Cuba.

Rafael Cruz said the most ominous words he has ever heard was in the last two State of the Union addresses when President Obama said, "If Congress does not act, I will act unilaterally."

"Not much different than that… friend that I left behind in Cuba. Governing by decree, by executive order, just like a dictator, like Fidel Castro," said Rafael Cruz."
http://blog.chron...-castro/
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 12, 2013
Study: 90% of Criminal Corporations Are Republican

An examination of this list, by the present reporter, indicates that nine of these ten big-donating criminal firms gave far more to Republican political campaigns than to Democratic ones. Only one firm, Pfizer, donated more to Democrats; and they contributed only slightly more to Democrats than to Republicans. By contrast, each one of the nine big-donating Republican criminal corporations – Honeywell, Lockheed, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Boeing, GE, Northrop, Koch Industries, Raytheon, and Exxon – donated far more to Republicans than to Democrats; and the most lopsidedly political criminal firm of them all, Koch Industries (which organized the "Tea Party" starting when Obama first entered the White House), donated a whopping 98% to Republicans.
VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (6) Jul 12, 2013
Republican Sex Offenders and GOP Perverts

http://www.ringof...erverts/

Sample...

Robert "Bob" Allen, Florida state Rep. arrested in the afternoon at a Veteran's Memorial Park for solicitation of prostitution from an undercover male officer inside a restroom.

Sample.

Larry Craig, Republican Senator for Idaho, was arrested on July 11, 2007, by plainclothes police officer investigating complaints of lewd behavior in a Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport airport men's room.

Sample

Ted Haggard, was fired as pastor of the New Life Church and resigned from his position as president of the National Association of Evangelicals in November 2006 after a former male prostitute alleged they had a cash-for-sex relationship.
VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (7) Jul 12, 2013
REPUBLICAN OFFENDERS

Huge list of Republican criminals, liars, cheats, and lowlifes.

http://www.archiv...djvu.txt
Howhot
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 12, 2013
If you haven't noticed, most Republicans today are NOT conservatives.

BS. The results are still the same. They are one an the same; no difference.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 12, 2013
"Castro began attacking religion and freedom of the press, he instituted socialized medicine, and he destroyed free enterprise." - RyggTard

And the Cuban people love him for it.

America did it's best to destroy the Cuban Economy. Failed.

Viva Castro, Viva Cuba.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 13, 2013
If you haven't noticed, most Republicans today are NOT conservatives.

BS. The results are still the same. They are one an the same; no difference.

The results would be quite different if all republicans were conservatives like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Jeff Sessions. There would be no 'gang of 8'. There would have been no McCain Fiengold. BHO would not be president if a real conservative had run against BHO in 2008.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (13) Jul 13, 2013
Fraud and immorality are all that is required to become a 'progressive'
So why dont you acknowledge VDs long long list of republican offenders? Is it that you really cant admit that republicans can be just as crooked and deviant as democrats? WHY IS THAT ryggy?
Castro began attacking religion and freedom of the press, he instituted socialized medicine, and he destroyed free enterprise
Island nations are particularly vulnerable to overpopulation. Communism was the only way to keep cubans on the verge of starvation while at the same time destroying the religion which would force them to procreate.

Percentage of pregnancies aborted in Cuba in 2009 - 39.5
Total number of abortions 1968 - 2009 - 5,056,150
The Population growth (annual %) in Cuba was last reported at -0.04 in 2011

-This of course does not include the effect of family planning.

Need I point out that this resounding victory could not have occurred had their religion-based culture remained intact?
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Jul 13, 2013
Rygg. Progressives love to trot out republicans caught in scandals, which is fine as I believe elected officials should be above reproach and if they are caught in scandals should be thrown out of office and put in jail if they committed a crime.

However Rygg, do you think Progressives believe that democrats and progressives have the same standards that Progressives and Democrats (basically one and the same) should also be above reproach and if they commit a crime go to jail?

It appears that he vast majority of Progressives on this board give democrats and Progressives a pass at scandals and crime..... which makes them hypocrites.
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Jul 13, 2013
Otto, do you agree that if a Progressive and/or Democrat commits a crime or is involved in a scandal they should be removed from office? Do you believe that Republicans and Democrats should be held to the SAME standard of conduct? If not, why not? I ask the same question to VD, Howhot and every other progressive on this board.
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Jul 13, 2013
One thing I can't stand above almost everything else is Hypocrites, which is probably why I have so many issues with Progressives.
JohnGee a Progressive on this Board, reminded/lectured me on physorgs comments policy. Here are some of his comments, I'm sure, unless he is a hypocrite and believes Progressives don't need to follow the same rules, he would report himself and other progressives on this board....

If you aren't a troll I have a wall I'd like you to stand in front of.
You are a pathetic coward and a homophobic homosexual.
Like most reactionary crybaby conservatives
Crawl back in your hole, troglodyte. You are also clearly a latent homosexual
you are a disgusting, racist, homophobic coward. Probably homosexual too
Freethinking's gym class scenario speaks volumes about his latent homosexuality.
A bit of advice: if you are going to be such a smarmy prick
Or am I right to assume he has half his arm up your ass? I won't speculate on whether you enjoy it or not?
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 13, 2013
'Progressives' crave power. Power corrupts, but even worse are 'progressives' like Pol Pot or Mao or Auto who truly believe they can and should have the power of God to do whatever it takes to achieve their Utopian fantasy.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 13, 2013
Says it all:
"Liberals are more upset when a tree is chopped down than when a child is aborted."
- Ann Coulter.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 13, 2013
Sept. 29, 2005

^ Rep. Tom DeLay, House Majority Leader was indicted for campaign finance fraud, criminal
conspiracy and two counts of money laundering. He was arrested and booked at Harris County
jail October 20, 2005.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 13, 2013
March 14, 2008

Republican attorney Richard "Dickie" Scruggs along with Republican Sidney Backstrom pled
guilty to conspiring to bribe a judge. Also indicted was Zachary Scruggs, Timothy R.
Balducci, and Steven A. Patterson, for trying to bribe a Mississippi state court judge with
$40,000 in cash. Scruggs is also the brother-in-law of outgoing GOP Sen. Trent Lott.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 13, 2013
August 27, 2007

Republican Mayor of Ocean Township, NJ, Terance Weldon pleaded guilty to accepting
$64,000 from three developers in return for his help in gaining zoning approvals in the township.
The judge in the case threw out the prosecutor's plea for leniency and Weldon was sentenced to
nearly 5 years in prison.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 13, 2013
March 27, 2007

"^ Republican David Stockman, Ronald Reagan's budget director was "indicted on charges of
defrauding investors and banks of $1.6 billion while chairman of Collins & Aikman Corp., an auto
parts maker that collapsed days after he quit"
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 13, 2013
October 27, 2006

Miami-Dade Country Commissioner, Republican Miram Alonos pleaded guilty to 20 felonies for
looting campaign accounts in 1998 and 1999 and trying to cover up the crimes and charges that
she looted her campaign accounts of more than $100,000. She was sentenced to 4 1/2 months
and force her and her husband had to pay the county $250,000 in restitution.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 13, 2013
August 26, 2006

^ Lt. Col. Bruce D. Hopfengardner, Republican, pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit
money laundering and wire fraud. He served as a special adviser to the American-led occupation
forces, recommending funds for projects in Iraq.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 13, 2013
SERIAL KILLERS, TELEVANGELIST & TALK SHOW HOSTS

is" Dennis L. Rader, the BTK killer, was a Republican, a boy scout leader and a president in his
Lutheran church. He pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11 -year old girl he murdered.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 13, 2013
March 8, 1999

"S" Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pled guilty to offering $1.5 million on-line
contract to kill anyone who would murder an abortion provider.

When the cops shut down his
web site they found 1,000 to 2,000 images of child porn featuring children as young as five to
seven years old.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 13, 2013
October 6, 2005

"S" Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.
"He kissed her, and when he kissed her, he stuck his tongue in her mouth. She asked him where
he learned that, and the child told her Bobby did that to him, talking about Bobby Stumbo,"
Detective Byron Hansford said.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (17) Jul 14, 2013
Otto, do you agree that if a Progressive and/or Democrat commits a crime or is involved in a scandal they should be removed from office?
Well they are arent they? I do agree that it is as easy to produce a list of conservative scumbag criminals as it is liberal scumbag criminals, as VD has graciously demonstrated. And I wonder why lying hypocrites such as yourself would fail to acknowledge this.

Is it because trolls crave attention? Yeah thats probably it. Otherwise you WOULD be acknowledging this instead of posting endless inflammatory comments.
freethinking
1.8 / 5 (19) Jul 14, 2013
Otto, not true. Kennedy, Clinton, Sharpton, etc. do crimes, are praised and do no jail times. That is the hypocrisy I'm talking about.

The list of Progressives doing crimes, involved in scandals and having no long term negative impact on their political careers, is huge. The list of Progressives who get promoted after being involved in scandals and crimes is huge as well.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2013
April 23, 2003

"S" Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn after paying two
teenage girls to pose for sexual photos in a Baltimore hotel. He was only sentenced to two years
probation. Delgaudio also served as president of the Republican-affiliated Legal Affairs Council
and spent time raising money for Oliver North's defense during the Iran-Contra scandal.
VendicarE
2.2 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2013
April 2001

"S" Republican activist Parker J. Bena was found guilty of child porn on his computer and
sentenced to 30 months in prison.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2013
October 3, 2004

"& Former lawyer to the Ohio House Republican caucus, Stephen Linnen, the "Naked
Photographer" would ambushed women in the nude and took photos of their shocked
expressions. He was sentenced to 18 months and ordered not to possess any cameras, video
equipment or recording device of any kind.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2013
September 4, 2004

"S" Hawaiian Republican Rep. Brian Blundell, was convicted of sexual assault for fondling an
undercover male police office in a Waikiki restroom.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 14, 2013
January 15, 1999

"S" Republican Neal Horsley, who has called for the arrest of all homosexuals, admitted on the
Fox News Radio's The Alan Colmes Show, that he's had sex with mules. He was convicted of
possession of hashish with intent to sell and has sense been released. Horsley was responsible for
creating a web site called "The Nuremberg Files" which displayed the names and locations of
various doctors who performed abortions throughout the United States. The web site was shut
down after a lawsuit from Planned Parenthood.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 14, 2013
I am gratified to know that there are outstanding Republicans out there doing their best to advance the Republican way by having sex with Mules.

The Mules love it, and like having sex with children, according to the Libertarian party platform, there is no legitimate claim of molestation if the child (or mule) is willing.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2013
RyggTard, and FreeTardo seem to have cut and run from this conversation.

Conservatives are fond of cutting and running from conflict.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (17) Jul 15, 2013
VD if your not a hypocrite, start listing Progressives caught in scandals and crimes...or do you personally believe Progressives are godlike and are not involved in scandals or crimes?

Then the next question becomes, why do Progressives take it as a badge of honor or a prerequisite to be involved in scandal to move to higher office?
JohnGee
1.5 / 5 (8) Jul 15, 2013
That's kind of hard FreepTwink, you listed them all.

FreepTwink, if you are not a hypocrite, start listing conservatives caught in scandals and crimes.
djr
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 15, 2013
Rygg and Free make such fools of themselves by trying to argue that one party has a monopoly on corruption and scandal. Here is a list of 62 sex scandals involving politicians. I think that 34 of them are Republicans - either way - it is pretty evenly balanced. Either way - it shows that both parties have a pretty high number of perverts in their upper ranks.

http://www.thedai...endSlide
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (16) Jul 15, 2013
djr, you miss the point. The way they are dealt with differs between parties. Progressives and Democrats consider scandals a positive, while conservatives consider scandals a negative.

I've said previously, I much rather have a truthful, above board Progressive in power (if there is such a person), than a lying scumbag Republican elected.

With an honest person who has integrity, even if you disagree with them, you can respect and trust them.

All people must EXPECT their elected leaders to be honest and people of integrity. If not, get rid of them irrespective of party.
djr
3 / 5 (4) Jul 15, 2013
No Free - i did not miss the point. You have provided no support for the idea that Republicans view scandal any different that Democrats do. Slime is slime. There is slime everywhere we look, and politics seems to attract way more than it's share of slime. You and Rygg just make yourselves look stupid by trying to argue that Democrats have more of an issue with slime that Republicans. If they can get away with it - they do. If they get busted - they try to wiggle out of it. You are the ones trying to rewrite reality.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 15, 2013
'Progressives' know their leaders must be deceitful and corrupt to sell their agenda. All that matters to a 'progressive' is the power.
NYC 'progressives' have not laughed Wiener-Spitzer off the stage and they adore the Clintons and the scandalous Kennedys.
It's too bad the husband of Jeri Ryan (7of9) hadn't stayed to challenge BHO in the senate.
Nixon was no conservative, but when he was caught doing a fraction of what BHO has so far done, resigned.
BHO will NEVER resign. He has no shame and must be forced out of office via a formal impeachment process. But a Republican controlled senate is the first step.
djr
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 15, 2013
Progressives are all - (fill in the blank). Yes Ryggy - we know what you think of progressives. You have shown us that you cannot think in a complex manner at least a million times. You have demonstrated that you can only engage in group think - 'all liberals are such and such.' I am not sure why you feel the need to continually advertise your ignorance on an international forum. It is sure sad to watch the comments on physorg be so dominated by such immature thinkers as yourself. Oh well - Dunning Kreuger I guess.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 15, 2013
A 'progressive' is quite a simple creature. They want nothing but power to impose themselves onto to others.
What's complex about that?
I understand 'progressives' need to act more complex to divert attention from their objective, power. And they may even convince some their motives are pure, if only....
As noted, many times, it is the 'progressives' that has found the need to change their name. Wilson and Hoover ran as 'progressives' seizing new powers. FDR ran as a 'liberal', seizing even more power. As the 'liberal' brand was tainted over the years by Johnson, Carter and Clinton, the L word, they reverted back to 'progressive'.
Why are they so afraid to call themselves socialists?
djr
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 15, 2013
A 'progressive' is quite a simple creature.

Strange - you continue to demonstrate the exact level of ignorance that I am trying to draw attention to. You seem incapable of understanding the point - the point of childish thinking - you know - 'All progressives are such and such' You are such a baby.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 15, 2013
'Progressives' know their leaders must be deceitful and corrupt to sell their agenda. All that matters to a 'progressive' is the power
Open your other eye.
http://www.youtub...63n1lJ4M

"Perhaps the most disturbing news about Nixon and the tax system came not from the investigations of his tax returns, but from the Watergate investigation itself. After Nixon had agreed to pay the $465,000 deficiency, the news shifted to revelations that the Nixon White House had used IRS-provided tax information about Nixon's "enemies" and had attempted to use the agency to audit and harass those who had been adversaries of the Nixon administration."
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (14) Jul 15, 2013
Heres something you might find surprising (or not)

"New Study: The Wealthy are more Unethical
"It's been said that money is the root of all evil. But does money really make people more likely to lie, cheat and steal? New research released by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences says "yes".

"Seven studies using experimental and naturalistic methods, reveal that upper-class individuals behave more unethically than lower-class individuals. In studies 1 and 2, upper-class individuals were more likely to break the law while driving, relative to lower-class individuals. In follow-up laboratory studies, upper-class individuals were also more likely to:
•exhibit unethical decision-making tendencies (study 3),
•take valued goods from others (study 4),
•lie in a negotiation (study 5),
•cheat to increase their chances of winning a prize (study 6),
•and endorse unethical behavior at work (study 7) than were lower-class individuals."
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 15, 2013
While Nixon was a R, he was no conservative and his actions were quite 'progressive'.
Wage and price controls, creation of EPA, ....and very willing and capable to use any means necessary to retain power. He learned that from the democrat's voter fraud in 1960.
Nixon was a piker compared to Clinton and BHO using agencies, like IRS and FBI to intimidate and blackmail enemies.
RINOs are weak 'progressives'.
If dj can point out any 'progressive' that promotes AND votes and can be trusted to support limited govt, lower taxes, and less govt control, please point one out.
And it really IS that simple.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 15, 2013
, reveal that upper-class individuals behave more unethically than lower-class individuals.

Who should be surprised when a socialist govt controls the money? They are just following the example set by the state.
djr
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 15, 2013
"And it really IS that simple."

It really is that simple - that all progressives are poopy heads, and all Conservatives are angels! - what really is that simple is your ability to think. This thread has pointed out over and over to you that it is as easy to find a conservative with his/her fingers in the cookie jar, as it is a liberal - you just don't have the reasoning skills to understand the information presented to you. In fact - Otto showed you a series of studies that show that the rich are more inclined to unethical behavior than the poor - so by extension - it would follow that Republicans have a higher incidence of finger in the cookie jar syndrome that Democrats - but you are just not capable of higher levels of reasoning - easier to resort to baby think - 'all liberals are bad, all Conservatives are good' You really need to get an education Ryggy.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 15, 2013
that all progressives are poopy heads

If you say so.
What I said is 'progressives'/socialists/'liberals' seek power and will do whatever it takes to obtain that power.
the rich are more inclined to unethical behavior than the poor

What 'rich'? Those that worked hard and earned their wealth providing products and services people wanted or the political entrepreneurs who rent seek and lobby the socialist state for favors?
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 15, 2013
"If there's a line of demarcation when shame lost its status as a poison dart for a political career, it came in the late 1990s. President Bill Clinton's dalliance with Monica Lewinsky was graphically described day after day. Clinton was impeached but not removed from office, and he left the presidency in 2001 with stellar approval numbers. He now is more personally popular than any other living former president."

Read more here: http://www.mcclat...link=cpy
"Such is the conversation Eldridge and Hughes convened when they launched Protect Our Democracy in 2012. The group called for public financing of elections in New York. Like many campaign reforms, those advocated by Protect Our Democracy would not prevent individual candidates from spending their own money on campaigns. Campaign finance reform thus gives an edge to the super-wealthy and their spouses—people just like Chris Hughes and Sean Eldridge."
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 15, 2013
"Such is the conversation Eldridge and Hughes convened when they launched Protect Our Democracy in 2012. The group called for public financing of elections in New York. Like many campaign reforms, those advocated by Protect Our Democracy would not prevent individual candidates from spending their own money on campaigns. Campaign finance reform thus gives an edge to the super-wealthy and their spouses—people just like Chris Hughes and Sean Eldridge."
http://freebeacon...honyism/
Why do they want political power?
djr
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 15, 2013
What I said is 'progressives'/socialists/'liberals' seek power and will do whatever it takes to obtain that power.

I understand what you said - and it is the thinking of a child. All progressives are such and such. That is the thinking of a little child. Adults understand that life is more complex - and that it is very lazy thinking to say all X - do Y. That is where racism comes from. Yes - clinton was a slime ball - as was Nixon - see how that works....
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (14) Jul 15, 2013
While Nixon was a R, he was no conservative and his actions were quite 'progressive'
I see.

So when we find conservative criminals its because they are not conservative enough. I guess only jesus and john birch were true nazis in ryggys eyes.

True conservatives are intrinsically good. They never lie, cheat or steal. They never do it except in the missionary position. They only drive caddys. What else? Grain alcohol and rain water?

The only true conservative was nailed to a cross by pinkos.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (17) Jul 15, 2013
Isn't it disturbing that Progressives will not agree to the statement that: we should expect ALL politicians of ANY stripe to be ethical, honest, and above reproach. AND If they are caught being dishonest, unethical, or involved in scandals that they should be removed from office.

Simple statement

BTW, for the Progressives, the definition for dishonest is: Deliberate Intended to mislead or cheat. Making a mistake is not being dishonest.
ryggesogn2
1.9 / 5 (17) Jul 15, 2013
Simple:

liberalism: moochers electing looters to plunder from producers

"I have never understood why it is 'greed' to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." Thomas Sowell

"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." --Robert A. Heinlein.

"A thief is more moral than a congressman; when a theif steals your money, he doesn't demand you thank him." Walter E. Williams
All progressives are such and such.

Truth hurts? What 'progressive' doesn't crave power?

Bastiat tagged the 'progressives' in The Law:
"the reformers, the legislators, and the writers on public affairs — do not desire to impose direct despotism upon mankind. Oh no, they are too moderate and philanthropic for such direct action. Instead, they turn to the law for this despotism, this absolutism, this omnipotence. They desire only to make the laws. "
ryggesogn2
1.9 / 5 (17) Jul 15, 2013
" I do not insist that the supporters of these various social schools of thought — the Proudhonists, the Cabetists, the Fourierists, the Universitarists, and the Protectionists — renounce their various ideas. I insist only that they renounce this one idea that they have in common: They need only to give up the idea of forcing us to acquiesce to their groups and series, their socialized projects, their free-credit banks, their Graeco-Roman concept of morality, and their commercial regulations. I ask only that we be permitted to decide upon these plans for ourselves; that we not be forced to accept them, directly or indirectly, if we find them to be contrary to our best interests or repugnant to our consciences.

But these organizers desire access to the tax funds and to the power of the law in order to carry out their plans. "
Bastiat, The Law
ryggesogn2
1.9 / 5 (17) Jul 15, 2013
"if the force of government were limited to suppressing injustice, then government would be as innocent of these sufferings as it is now innocent of changes in the temperature.
As proof of this statement, consider this question: HAVE THE PEOPLE EVER BEEN KNOWN TO RISE AGAINST THE COURT OF APPEALS, OR MOB A JUSTICE OF THE PEACE, IN ORDER TO GET HIGHER WAGES, FREE CREDIT, TOOLS OF PRODUCTION, FAVORABLE TARIFFS, OR GOVERNMENT-CREATED JOBS? Everyone knows perfectly well that such matters are not within the jurisdiction of the Court of Appeals or a Justice of the Peace. And if government were limited to its proper functions, everyone would soon learn that these matters are not within the jurisdiction of the law itself.
But make the laws upon the principle of fraternity — proclaim that all good, and all bad, stem from the law; that the law is responsible for all individual misfortunes and all social inequalities"
The Law
What's so complicated?
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 15, 2013
Freethinking. I believe that ALL politicians of ANY stripe should be ethical, honest, and above reproach AND if they are caught being dishones, unethical, or involved in scandals - they should be removed from office.

I guess that means I am not a Progressive.

What I also believe is that corruption is not a Republican, or Democrat, or Progressive, or Conservative issue. I see clearly that corruption is not exclusive to any particular party - but is an equal opportunity evil. The last point is the one I am disagreeing with you guys on. Ryggy clearly believes that all progressives are bad, and all conservatives are good. Such reched childish thinking.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (16) Jul 15, 2013
djr, Great, we agree on ethics, so you must not be a progressive after all! :)

Now comes the true test..... do you believe the News Media should treat all politicians the same? Ie. if they slam one party for one thing they should slam the other party for doing the same? If they say party X is bad for doing Z, then they should say party Y is bad for doing Z as well.
JohnGee
1.9 / 5 (9) Jul 15, 2013
FreepTwink, you set up your verbal traps with all the finesse of Wile E. Coyote.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 15, 2013
I guess that means I am not a Progressive.

That wasn't the key discriminator.
The quest for power to do MORE than The Law should do is.
dj has failed that test, many times.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis"

Corruption is the inevitable result as the 'progressive' laws continues to fail 'to do good'.

"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." --Robert A. Heinlein.

djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 15, 2013
"The quest for power to do MORE than The Law should do is."

So I quest for power huh? And I have failed Ryggy's test of something or other! And then a few quotes thrown in there for good measure - no one is sure why.
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 15, 2013
"do you believe the News Media should treat all politicians the same?"

Yep - sure do Free. Did I pass your little test? I failed Ryggy's - no one is sure what the test was for - but probably there is something going on in Ryggy's child like little brain. Neither one of you has understood the main issue of this thread - which is that corruption is not specific to one party or the other - but I think that is too complex for you guys.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 15, 2013
"VD if your not a hypocrite, start listing Progressives caught in scandals and crimes...or do you personally believe Progressives are godlike and are not involved in scandals or crime?" - FreeTardo

I have never said such a thing of course, but you and RyggTard have.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
"The quest for power to do MORE than The Law should do is.' - RyggTard

With TardieBoy deciding what the law (should) do, of course.

Sorry Tardieboy, but you are barely capable of thinking rationally enough to feed yourself. It would not be a good idea for us to accept your application for deciding what the law "should" and should not do.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
"do you believe the News Media should treat all politicians the same? if they slam one party for one thing they should slam the other party for doing the same? " - FreeTardo

Doing so requires the media to ignore hypocrisy.

When all those Conservative Christian TV evangelists are out there preaching against sin on Sunday and purchasing the services of hookers on Monday, I expect the media to come down hard on them because of their hypocrisy. But not so for someone who promotes prostitution who does the same.

You poor Tard. You don't know the difference, do you?

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
"What's so complicated? - RyggaTard.

Absolutely nothing...

January 15, 1999

"S" Republican Neal Horsley, who has called for the arrest of all homosexuals, admitted on the Fox News Radio's The Alan Colmes Show, that he's had sex with mules. He was convicted of possession of hashish with intent to sell and has sense been released. Horsley was responsible for creating a web site called "The Nuremberg Files" which displayed the names and locations of various doctors who performed abortions throughout the United States. The web site was shut down after a lawsuit from Planned Parenthood.

So RyggTard. Sex with Mules. Is it Legal in your Libertarian/Randite Utopia or not?
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
"Who should be surprised when a socialist govt controls the money?" - RyggTard

Yup, that evil gubderment isn't gonna let you let you use your money to purchase the services of child prostitutes, contrary to Libertarian doctrine.

Awwwwwwww..

Why not head out to the Libertarian Paradise of Somalia where I hear they are having a sale on 10 year olds.

Other girls were recruited at home, or on their way to school, by the gang members' girlfriends, who lured them with promises of manicures and pedicures, haircuts and clothing.

"Gradually the youngsters [were] made to become full sexual slaves—that [was] the beginning," said Jibreel, who, since the arrests, has been in contact with five of the girls forced into prostitution. "The stories they told me were shocking, really shocking. They told me there were organized pimps and madam houses and all that kind of thing."

cont
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
The gangs that carried names such as the Somali Outlaws, the Somali Mafia, and the Lady Outlaws lured the girls with presents, telling them to "tell your mom you are going to study with your girlfriend, and you'll be back in two or three hours," or occasionally threatened the girls outright, saying they'd call the police, said Jibreel.

Disturbingly, some advocacy groups became aware of the problem years ago but were unable to get anyone in the Somali community to talk about it and continually encountered "roadblocks" when trying to unravel what was going on.

Smells like pre-teen spirit in Libertarian paradise.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 15, 2013
March 1, 2008

"^ Former North Carolina state legislator, and currently on the Cabarrus County Board of
Commissioners, Republican Coy Privette has been charged with six counts of aiding and abetting
prostitution. On August 22, 2007, he pleaded guilty and the judge agreed to expunge his record
upon completing 48 hours of community service, saying he's only concerned with "making sure
the behavior stopped." Also on Privette 's resume was his unsuccessful campaign for Governor in
1976 and President of the Christian Action League.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
July 18,2007

"S" Republican Leandro Aragoncillo was an FBI intelligence analyst and was assigned to the staff

of Vice President Dick Cheney. On October 5, 2005, Aragoncillo was indicted and arrested for

espionage. Federal agents accuse him of stealing classified information, including information

about the current President of the Philippines, Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo and passing it to

opposition leaders in that country. Aragoncillo was sentenced to 10 years in prison on July 18,

2007
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
April 29, 2007

"^ Republican Steve Rosen, American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) Indicted for
criminal conspiracy involving classified national security information. His trial in the U.S.
Courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia is scheduled to begin on April 29, 2008.
http://en.wikiped...ki/Steve Rosen
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
April 29, 2007

"S" Republican Keith Weissmann, AIPAC Indicted for criminal conspiracy involving classified

national security information. http://en.wikiped...ki/Keith Weissman
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
February 16, 2007

vs- Major Republican donor Abdul Tawala Ibn Ali Alishtari, a/k/a Michael Mixon, has been

indicted in federal court on charges of providing material support to terrorists.

Accused Terrorist Is Big GOP Donor
http://blogs.abcn...ori.html
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2013
April 11, 2003

Republican Katrina Leung, (Codename: Parlor Maid) was arrested in April 2003, on charges of
working covertly for the Chinese. Leung was alleged to have copied U.S. secrets with intent of
providing them to Chinese intelligence services.
Howhot
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 15, 2013
R2 and the freething always crack me up. They are so serious and yet so ignorant on just about every issue. Do you so called quote "conservatives" un-quote ever look at what benefits society or have a concern about the extinction of the spotted salamander over some guy saving 10000 bucks sinking a drill hole? 10000 buck he'll spend on something like lawn service and pool cleaning. Everyone knows how well trickle-down has worked; It hasn't. Just look at your own situation if you want proof.

ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 16, 2013
extinction of the spotted salamander

How many animals have become extinct without anyone even knowing about it?
New species are being found every day.
One of the most idiotic thing I hear now is the US Army is wasting taxes trying to protect pocket gophers. They are dangerous pests and should be eradicated.
'Liberals' also use the endangered species act to plunder land. The Mt Graham red squirrel was imported from TX decades ago for hunting. When the UofA wanted to build a telescope on Mt. Graham the 'liberals' went nuts asserting it would endanger a species not even native to Mt.Graham!
"There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." --Robert A. Heinlein.

ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (16) Jul 16, 2013
"The quest for power to do MORE than The Law should do is."

So I quest for power huh? And I have failed Ryggy's test of something or other! And then a few quotes thrown in there for good measure - no one is sure why.

Yep.
You assert that IF ONLY people are educated to YOUR level they would be atheists and there would be no more problems. Utopia would be established, IF ONLY everyone was as educated in complexity as dj. And of course the state must control the education stamping out religion in order to obtain dj's vision.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 16, 2013
Wow Ryggy - not sure where you got all of that from. I do advocate education as the main solution to our current f**cked up world - and I do believe that if people are left alone (not indoctrinated like your paranoid religion does) - they will naturally figure out that stories about sky fairies are ridiculous. I have never said that the state must control education - in fact I have often criticized our current state run education system. I think that parents are the most important piece of the education of a child - home schooling is often a lot better than state run schooling - but often worse. See it is not so simple. You have to address all the social issues like poverty, lack of education, drug abuse, crime, etc. - you know all those thorny problems that you have no solution for. Maybe if you got an education - and stopped with the baby think - you could start to formulate some real world ideas.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 16, 2013
"How many animals have become extinct without anyone even knowing about it?" - RyggTard

It is time to drive the Republican Menace to extinction.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (17) Jul 16, 2013
djr, with respect I ask you, where did all that exists come from? The big bang? What was before the Big Bang? Going back into time something came out of nothing. How did this something come about?

Again with respect, you stated that rygg's religion which I'm assuming you are referring to as Christian is a paranoid religion. What specifically do you consider paranoid about it? Where you aware that Christians are to Prove all Things and to Test what people say? (I'll agree if you bring up the point too many Christians don't question and test enough)
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
"What was before the Big Bang?" - FreeTard

Stupid question.

Nothing can come before the establishment of time.

What is north of the north pole?

Once again, FreeTardo has Free thunked his way into the freedom toilet.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 16, 2013
"And of course the state must control the education stamping out religion in order to obtain dj's vision." - RyggTard

Religion is the Opiate of the Masses, and RyggTard is as stoned as Rush Limbaugh on Oxycontin and Tranquilizers.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 16, 2013
think that parents are the most important piece of the education of a child - home schooling is often a lot better than state run schooling - but often worse.


Unless they teach religion at home, right?
You have to address all the social issues like poverty, lack of education, drug abuse, crime,

Religious institutions do a very good job addressing all of these issues.

There is a key common denominator between socialists and Muslims. Both assume man is weak and must have external controls place upon them for order, by other men who think they are better, more complex, more nuanced than the masses.
Christians, Jews, and maybe other religions, assume people are weak, but they have the capacity, the intelligence the inner fortitude, the soul to rise above their animal nature. The US govt was created with such an assumption, but is spiraling down.
JohnGee
1.5 / 5 (8) Jul 16, 2013
The US govt was created with such an assumption, but is spiraling down.
Actually it was founded on the assumption that quite a large chunk of the population did NOT have this ability, therefore requiring they be enslaved for their own good. Women too.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 16, 2013
VD, why is it so hard to believe God made something from nothing, and time from no time since you believe something came from nothing, and time came from no time? Or do you believe there is no cause for time and matter?
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 16, 2013
BTW just like Ard Louis, Jennifer Wiseman, John Lennox, Brian Kobilka, Don Page, Denis Alexander, Francis Collins,William Daniel Phillips, Henry F. Schaefer, III, Christopher Isham, Eric Priest, Jocelyn Bell Burnell, Colin Humphreys, George Francis Rayner Ellis, Ghillean Prance, Michał Heller and many many more famous scientists who believe in God, the more I learn about science, physics, astronomy, biology, and even chemistry, the more my faith is bolstered.

So VD, you still believe something came from nothing? Time from no time? You must have a lot of faith to believe that.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
"Unless they teach religion at home, right?" - RyggTard

Is what David Koreshe taught his children (Koreshe of the Wako Waco's), part of your home schooled religion?

You know. The part where he taught that he could molest 11 year old as long as he married them before your God?

We know that the Libertarian Religion holds that there is no legitimate claim of molestation of the child is willing.

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
"many many more famous scientists who believe in God," - FreeTard

Yes. Childhood indoctrination into nonsense is hard to overcome. It will fade over time but for it to persist, weekly sessions of additional indoctrination are required. Sunday church services suffice.

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
"So VD, you still believe something came from nothing?" - FreeTardo

Your use of the word "came" implies a distinction between before and after.

My acting expectation is that as one approaches the original singularity the concepts of before and after lose their meaning.

The universe simply is.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
"VD, why is it so hard to believe God made something from nothing" = FreeTardo

It is not difficult. It is ridiculous.

It is at all levels childlike in it's foolishness and naivete.

The "belief" signifies the existence of a significant mental defect, specifically in a well practiced ability to lie to ones self.

Filth.

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
"Religious institutions do a very good job addressing all of these issues." - RyggTardo

If that were true, Religious institutions would not have been replaced with secular governments as they have been.

You poor Retard.

You shouldn't try to think on your own. You don't have the capacity.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
Republicans need to stop promoting the birth of these children.

http://cdn.mix4fu...d836.gif
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 16, 2013
Ryggy: "Unless they teach religion at home, right?"

Nope - wrong - parents have the right to abuse their children - and I support their right to teach them about their religion - to a point. To illustrate that point - let me ask you a question Ryggy.

If a parent believes that God calls them to sacrifice their first child on the alter - do you support the exercise of that right? What about if they believe that God will heal their child from a terminal disease - and therefore withold life saving medical treatent? Do you support the government intervening in these situations - or support the right of the parents to practice their chosen religion?
freethinking
1.6 / 5 (14) Jul 16, 2013
VD, It is at all levels childlike in it's foolishness and naivete to believe that something can come from nothing, if you wait a long, long, long, long, very long, super long, time.

VD, you don't have faith that God can create anything, you have faith that time, if given enough of it, can make everything.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 16, 2013
parents have the right to abuse their children

That's your angle.
Germans who want to home school tried to escape Germany to the USA but have been refused asylum. Germany takes children away from parents who do NOT want to have their children indoctrinated by the state.
freethinking
1.8 / 5 (16) Jul 16, 2013
djr, I support a parents right to teach them about hating religion and science - to a point. To illustrate that point - let me ask you a question djr.

Would you allow VD to raise children to hate Christians so much that his children spit on and bully Christians?

Would you allow a parent to tell their boy that he is a she, and raise him as a girl and giving him drugs to prevent him from developing as a boy, perhaps even doing gender reassignment surgery?

AS for your question, the first one you are referring to repeating Abraham and Issac. However Issac at the time was probably 23, very strong, and most likely, Issac trusted God enough to allow his father to sacrifice him. So if the child is under 23 and not willing, your question isn't valid.

For second question, if both parents agree to a course of action AND they have the child's best interest at heart, then who are we to judge what is right.
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 16, 2013
"That's your angle."

As usual - you avoid my questions - and simply go off on another tangent. If Germany is using state indoctrination - and refusing parents the right to raise their children as they see fit (up to a point) - then I oppose that practice.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 16, 2013
To dj, parents who educate their children in religion are committing child abuse.
To dj this is the moral equivalent of murdering children and therefore the state must step in and rescue those children.
But that same 'progressive' state promotes murdering children before they are born.
Amoral/immoral insanity is quite complicated.
as they see fit (up to a point)

Of course, up to what point?
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
"Germany takes children away from parents who do NOT want to have their children indoctrinated by the state." - RyggTard

No it doesn't. You are lying.

Germany does prevent children from being significantly abused however.

Some parents are just to stupid to allow to control children.

You are probably such a person.

Now answer the questions put to you TardieBoy...

If a parent believes that God calls them to sacrifice their first child on the alter - do you support the exercise of that right? What about if they believe that God will heal their child from a terminal disease - and therefore withold life saving medical treatent? Do you support the government intervening in these situations - or support the right of the parents to practice their chosen religion?
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 16, 2013
"To dj, parents who educate their children in religion are committing child abuse." - RyggTard

They are indeed.

For the moment, society tolerates your preferred form of child abuse.

Why do Republicans like yourself promote the production of children like this?

http://stopwarcoa...cts1.jpg

http://www.sunni-...2(2).jpg

http://www.sunni-...4(2).jpg

http://www.sunni-...6(2).jpg

http://www.sunni-...5(2).jpg

http://www.lcnn1....cts1.jpg

Is there any form of child abuse that Republicans do not promote or facilitate?

VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 16, 2013
"if both parents agree to a course of action AND they have the child's best interest at heart, then who are we to judge what is right." - FreeTard

Yup. According to the Libertarian vision. It ain't molestation if the child is willing.

It is good to see FreeTardo supporting the morality of the Libertarian position.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 16, 2013
"VD, It is at all levels childlike in it's foolishness and naivete to believe that something can come from nothing," - Freetardo

What I said, and what FreeTardo isn't bright enough to comprehend was...

Your use of the word "came" implies a distinction between before and after.

My acting expectation is that as one approaches the original singularity the concepts of before and after lose their meaning.

The universe simply is.

FreeTardo should stop trying to think for itself. It simply doesn't have the capacity to do so.
freethinking
1.8 / 5 (16) Jul 16, 2013
Dj and Regg. what do each of you define as Child Abuse?

(easy one for me, VD having Kids is child abuse)
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 16, 2013
The definition is so broad that it is difficult to provide a concise definition.

Lying to your children is one example though.

So is screwing them.

But we realize that as a "free" thinker, you hold alternate opinions.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 16, 2013
Ryggy: "this is the moral equivalent of murdering children and therefore the state must step in and rescue those children."

Good - so you agree that the state must step in at some point - even if the parents say 'this is our religous right' - and the question becomes - where is the line.

What about emotional abuse of the children?
What about neglect of the children?
What about depriving the children of education?
Who gets to decide what education is approptriate?

See Ryggy - these things are not so simple.
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 16, 2013
Jeantel, child abuse victim.
http://www.realcl...ion.html

where is the line.

Where is it?

so you agree that the state must step in at some point

Yes, when parents abdicate responsibility, food, housing, clothing, and when parents intentionally cause physical harm or allow others to do so.
What is child abuse for the US govt to murder children in Waco?
djr
3 / 5 (4) Jul 16, 2013
Ryggy: "this is the moral equivalent of murdering children and therefore the state must step in and rescue those children."

Good - so you agree that the state must step in at some point - even if the parents say 'this is our religous right' - and the question becomes - where is the line.

What about emotional abuse of the children?
What about neglect of the children?
What about depriving the children of education?
Who gets to decide what education is approptriate?

See Ryggy - these things are not so simple.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (15) Jul 16, 2013
Just to show the world that VD is like a little child who likes to throw the word liar around with anyone who disagrees with him.

Germany taking away children of home schooler's away.
http://www.wnd.co...5/64093/
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (16) Jul 16, 2013
More state supported child abuse:
"In the 20-day period of the George Zimmerman trial, four minors – three teens and a five-year-old boy - were gunned down in Chicago, according to Homicide Watch Chicago, a Chicago Sun-Times publication, which details every murder that takes place in the city. - See more at: http://cnsnews.co...wvM.dpuf
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 16, 2013
More media child abuse:
"To mock teenaged girls, a routine source of sick humor is anything Seth MacFarlane touches on his Sunday night Fox cartoons. The May 6, 2012 edition of "Family Guy" made all its usual mean-spirited fun of Meg, the ugly-duckling daughter of the Griffin family.
During a high school semester in Paris, Meg is abducted and is auctioned as a sex slave. The announcer says, "This girl is perfect is you want to buy a sex slave but don't want to spend sex-slave money." - See more at: http://cnsnews.co...ad.dpuf"
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 16, 2013
"Where is it?"

I don't know Ryggy - do you?

I would say that the state has a right to expect parents to behave in the best interest of their children. Where exactly the lines are drawn - that is a very tough and complex question. While I think that teaching children stupid stuff like 'unless you accept Jesus - you will burn in hell for eternity' is abusive - most probably the state has to be cautious in where it intervenes - and only do so in situations of obvious abuse/neglect.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 16, 2013
Free " with respect I ask you, where did all that exists come from?"

That is an easy one Free - I don't know - do you?

Now a question for you. If you answer the above question by stating that God made it - the next question you have to answer is 'where did God come from?' If your answer to that is that God has been here all along - then we get to turn around and reply 'If God could have been here all along, why could the universe not have been here all along?' It is called the problem of infinite regression.
VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (7) Jul 16, 2013
"Just to show the world that VD is like a little child who likes to throw the word liar around with anyone who disagrees with him." - FreeTardO

The freeTard tries to support the absurd claim by providing a broken link to a Whacko right wing news service.

World Net Daily, is Tea Tard KookVille Central.

With him and RyggTard it's all Right wing Quack news, 24 hours a day, every day.

But they are still "free thinkers".

VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (7) Jul 16, 2013
"This girl is perfect is you want to buy a sex slave but don't want to spend sex-slave money." 0- RyggTard

What do you expect from Faux, TardieBoy?

Faux News has a business model that promotes it's own profits at the cost of destroying America.
Howhot
4 / 5 (4) Jul 16, 2013
I'm an atheist. I hate all religions equally; some more some less.

Seriously though, the @freething asked an interesting question that is fitting of Physorg, namely; "What came before the big bang". That is funny, there was an article about this not long ago; see:

http://phys.org/n...ion.html

It blows the mind!
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
"State-supported Child Abuse - three teens and a five-year-old boy - were gunned down in Chicago" - RyggTard

Sorry TardieBoy, but the state didn't kill those kids. Anti-social "free thinkers" like you did.

You see, they agree with you that they should be free to do whatever they want unmolested by that evils gubderment.

It is just like it's done in the the freedom loving Libertarian paradise of Somalia.

When do you plan to emigrate, Libertarian Boy?

VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Jul 16, 2013
Jeantel, child of free market Capitalism.

http://www.realcl...ion.html

Howhot
4 / 5 (4) Jul 16, 2013
More state supported child abuse:
"In the 20-day period of the George Zimmerman trial, four minors – three teens and a five-year-old boy - were gunned down in Chicago, according to Homicide Watch Chicago, a Chicago Sun-Times publication, which details every murder that takes place in the city. - See more at: http://cnsnews.co...wvM.dpuf


So @R2; if this is State supported child abuse, the only state support I can think of are the lack of gun control laws. So are you saying you favor more gun control laws?

VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (7) Jul 16, 2013
"What is child abuse for the US govt to murder children in Waco?" - RyggTard

Sorry TardieBoy, but only the spectacularly idiotic claim that the children who were burned to death at Waco were killed by Gubderment.

Those fires were started on the orders of Good Christian David Koresh, to in part hide the fact that he was a child molester.

And the fact that he was a child molester is verified by the testimony of former children in the compound that he took control of.

Your repeated defense of a child molester who murdered his own children by fire, is noted.

No doubt like your mentor Ayn Rand who took a multiple child murderer as a good friend, you believe that Koresh was a moral superman.

Filth.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 16, 2013
Free: "Would you allow VD to raise children to hate Christians so much that his children spit on and bully Christians?"

I don't think that I get the choice on that issue free. There are plenty of pretty evil people in the world - who teach their children terrible things - (like God is wathching you - and if he is displeased with you - he will send you to burn in hell for eternity), but we don't get to go into their homes and dictate what they teach their children.

VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (7) Jul 16, 2013
"I'm an atheist. I hate all religions equally; some more some less." - HowHot

I am also an atheist but don't "Hate" religion anymore than I hate the Easter bunny.

I simply view religion as a belief system for fools and mental defectives that is promoted by fools and mental defectives.

I find that the core moral concepts that are common to most if not all stable religions are generally correct - even those of New Christianity.

Where religion fails is in the indoctrination of people into nonsense spirituality.

There is no need for a creator, or threats of eternal punishment from that creator to teach and preserve the fundamental rules of morality.

As we see from good Christian RyggTard, being a Christian does not prevent one from being spectacularly immoral.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (17) Jul 17, 2013
Where exactly the lines are drawn - that is a very tough and complex question

For the atheist dj it may be.
King Solomon ended one example of child abuse by threatening to cut a baby in half giving a part to each of the women claiming it was her child. Of course it was the real mother who relinquish any claim so her child would live.
but we don't get to go into their homes and dictate what they teach their children.

But you WOULD like the opportunity?
Golda Meir said terrorism would end when Palestinian mothers loved their children more than they hated the Jews.
Child abuse would be reduced when parents love their children more than themselves.
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 17, 2013
I'm an atheist. I hate all religions equally;

But not atheism?
lack of gun control laws.

There is no lack of gun control laws in Chicago or IL. What is not lacking is a corrupt political and legal system run by 'progressives'. A system that spawned the career of BHO.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 17, 2013
"For the atheist dj it may be." Is it not a tough and complex problem for a religionist? Do you think that is an easy balance to determine? You know the balance between respecting a person's right to autonomy, but protecting the society as a whole from those who would abuse their children, or hurt others. Your comment only goes to reinforce the understanding that you think in a very child like manner. If these issues are not tough and complex - you need to come here to Oklahoma and help out the social service agencies. They wrestle every day with parents who neglect their children - often through ignorance - often because it is what their religion tells them to do - but the social service agencies are so overwhelmed - they struggle to find solutions. Thus we periodically get another story in the paper of a child dying a horrible death, in wretched circumstances, and the social service agencies knew of the situation, but were overwhelmed with the scale of the problem. cont.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 17, 2013
cont. And if - as you asserted Ryggy - the Religious institutions are doing such a wonderful job with these issues - why do I live in arguably the most religious country in the world - and yet we have a shorter life expectancy than every other industrialized country.

http://www.common.../07/15-4

It seems the explanation is because of the wealth disparity here in the U.S. So maybe your rabid religionism is not such a good thing after all - and we will be fortunate when we follow the other countries down the road of less religion, and more rationalism.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 17, 2013
Freethinking - you asked a question - that I answered - where is your response?

ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 17, 2013
protecting the society as a whole from those who would abuse their children,

Why not protect the child from the abuse?
What is this 'society'?
Not too long ago there used to quite a few orphanages run by various church groups.
Now, 'social scientists' assert it is better for the a state bureaucracy to put children in with foster parents.
Sort of like an EBT card so those on the dole won't get dirty looks from the customers behind them.
Before the 'progressive' state, there used to be many options offered by society, not the state, to care for children who were not wanted and/or abused.
For the state, what is most important, what's best for the children or the bureaucracy?
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 17, 2013
'Not to long ago there used to be quite a few orphanages run by various church groups"

Oh yes those wonderful church groups like the Catholic church...... We want to leave our children with those nice people. Have you seene "The Magdalene Sisters" Ryggy? You really should get out more - learn what is really happening in your world
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (14) Jul 17, 2013
I'm an atheist. I hate all religions equally; some more some less
The term is antireligionist.
I am also an atheist but don't "Hate" religion anymore than I hate the Easter bunny
Funny. You enjoy exposing abuse by evil republicans but are apparently oblivious to the much larger problem among the organized religions.

"Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper delivered a long-anticipated apology yesterday to tens of thousands of indigenous people who as children were ripped from their families and sent to boarding schools, where many were abused as part of official government policy to "kill the Indian in the child.

"Investigations have established that thousands of Indian, Inuit and Metis children suffered mental, physical and sexual abuse in 132 boarding schools, most of them run by churches. The first opened in the late 1800s; the last -- in Saskatchewan -- continued operating until 1996."

-What makes you think these people are in any way comparable to easter bunnies v
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (16) Jul 17, 2013
I find that the core moral concepts that are common to most if not all stable religions are generally correct
So do you believe that it is generally correct to stone women and throw acid in their faces because they refuse to wear a niqab?

The bible condones and promotes slavery and the only reason it is illegal is because secular law forbids it. You think this is just a technicality vd?

How about this?

"12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." matt19

-Are you ok with a book that encourages people to castrate themselves to demonstrate their love for god?

Do you think it is moral to teach little kids that they are born evil and that if they do not believe in some god they will be tortured for eternity because of it?

-Are you a little 2-faced vd or merely a fashion whore?
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 17, 2013
" But a new collection of academic histories of orphanages dating to the first millennium, which I edited, draws a different conclusion: Orphanages were generally created by communities to improve the life chances of the children in their care and, by and large, did just that.

There were bad orphanages in the past, and there are, no doubt, bad orphanages across the globe, but the same can just as easily be said of many biological and foster families. Good orphanages, which provide long-term care for disadvantaged children (and are different from group homes, which provide short-term care, often for difficult children), are not the only solution for all modern child-welfare problems, but neither is foster care nor adoption"
" Ed Shipman, founder of Happy Hills Farm on the plains of Texas, and Phyllis Crain, head of The Crossnore School deep in the mountains of North Carolina, are showing the way."
http://online.wsj...074.html
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 17, 2013
Yeah Ryggy - that's right - go ahead and wish reality away - that will work won't it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 17, 2013
What - this happy hills farm?

"WACO (April 21, 2011)—Eric Michael Grimes, 27, of Somervell County, was sentenced to federal probation Thursday in Waco's federal district court after he earlier pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography...Grimes was sentenced to three years probation, ordered to pay a $5,000 fine and $100 in special assessment to the court...Federal prosecutors presented evidence during the plea hearing that Grimes was employed as a residential parent at Happy Hill Farm Academy, in Somervell County"

What - this crossnore school?

"The Crossnore School is also accredited by COA, which accredited confirmedly abusive and now closed Pathway Family Center. This program does not include the program details nor enrollment information online. We have downloaded the 6-page application. But, HEAL finds this program requires further investigation."

-tsk tsk. Got any others?
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (18) Jul 17, 2013
"Children in foster care experience high rates of child abuse, emotional deprivation, and physical neglect. In one study in the United Kingdom "foster children were 7–8 times, and children in residential care 6 times more likely to be assessed by a pediatrician for abuse than a child in the general population".[14] One study by Johns Hopkins University found that the rate of sexual abuse within the foster-care system is more than four times as high as in the general population; in group homes, the rate of sexual abuse is more than 28 times that of the general population.[15][16] An Indiana study found three times more physical abuse and twice the rate of sexual abuse in foster homes than in the general population.[16] A study of foster children in Oregon and Washington State found that nearly one third reported being abused by a foster parent or another adult in a foster home.[17]
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (18) Jul 17, 2013
"The highest ranking federal official in charge of foster care, Wade Horn of the Department of Health and Human Services, is a former child psychologist who says the foster care system is a giant mess and should just be blown up."
http://abcnews.go...cO21h8oo
"the child welfare system labors in an atmosphere of distrust, impending failure, and reflexive, uniform solutions that rarely succeed for anyone. "
http://www.prince...leid=132
Sounds like any typical centrally planned govt program.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 17, 2013
That's all true Ryggy - but it won't be solved by putting the kids in the care of the wonderful Catholic church will it? Read what Otto wrote about the Australian situation. You are not going to make matters better by giving the kids over to a bunch of psychotic perverts - idiot.
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 17, 2013
""One document from 1913, when Ohio began monitoring facilities and setting standards, shows the state inspector beginning his assessment with 'The home has an atmosphere like a family.' Many of the children that were here were here because of tragic circumstances. They did not have a natural family, but the orphanage was the best substitute they could get outside of having their own loving parents.

"Some of the kids, during the Depression, said coming to the home was the best thing to happen to them," Labuhn continued."
http://www.pressp...mosphere
djr
5 / 5 (4) Jul 17, 2013
Keep trying Ryggy - finding an example of a good orphanage does not negate all the really awfull ones - run by religious organizations - in which the children were subjected to terrible abuse. You really can't think in a complex manner.
Howhot
4 / 5 (4) Jul 17, 2013
I'm an atheist. I hate all religions equally; some more some less
The term is antireligionist.
I stand corrected. I'm sorry, but I flunked Sunday school. Straight F's. But in reply to R2's question;
I'm an atheist. I hate all religions equally;

But not atheism?
No. I treat atheism separately from religion. It's more of a philosophy of life unlike a belief system. Anyway, its not important. There are better and more important issues to be concerned with; like the survival of Mankind from global warming for example.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (14) Jul 18, 2013
I stand corrected. I'm sorry, but I flunked Sunday school

http://www.urband...igionist
http://en.wikiped...religion

-Note the long list. Including this guy who probably did very well in catechism.
http://www.youtub...TVUulGwc

-At 3:40.

ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 18, 2013
It's more of a philosophy of life unlike a belief system.

If that's what you believe...
Hotties religion is scientism and the denomination is AGW.
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 18, 2013
Keep trying Ryggy - finding an example of a good orphanage does not negate all the really awfull ones - run by religious organizations - in which the children were subjected to terrible abuse. You really can't think in a complex manner.

But the current socialist govt foster care process has no faults and is the best way.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 18, 2013
As is now self evident, there can be no reasoning with Conservative Retards like RyggTard.

He is a good Christian Patriot, immune to facts, and motivated strictly by TeaTard ideology.

In his world, Timothy McVeigh was a hero of his fatherland, and David Koresh was the re-embodiment of Christ and not the child molester the children molested by him claim him to be.

Dat Evils Gubderment started the WACO fires even though Koresh and his followers are recorded on audio tape as they coordinated between themselves to start those fires.

For him, Gubderment conspiracy is everywhere, and the spooks have been poisoning his precious bodily fluids for decades.

Death is the only cure for his kind of Tea Tard mental disease.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 18, 2013
"But the current socialist govt foster care process has no faults and is the best way." - RyggTard

How do you fix a child who's mind has been destroyed by Capitalism?

RyggTard seems to be demanding re-education camps.

The Conservative in him, demands it.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 18, 2013
"One document from 1913" - Ryggtard

I thought you wanted to take America back to it's roots, TardieBoy.

Isn't 1913 rootie enough for you? Or do you need to take America back to the 1800's horse and buggy - soap is a luxury - era for that?

Howhot
5 / 5 (3) Jul 18, 2013
Ghost says;
-Note the long list. Including this guy who probably did very well in catechism.
http://www.youtub...TVUulGwc


http://www.huffin...Politics

Somehow justice is served.
djr
5 / 5 (3) Jul 18, 2013
Ryggy: "But the current socialist govt foster care process has no faults and is the best way."

I am not advocating for the current socialist govt system. You are the one avocating placing children in homes being run by sicko paedophiles like the Roman Catholic priests - not very nice of you.... I know I know - let's go back to the good old days - with the orphanages connected to the garment factories - with all the rats and the bad food, and the overcrowding, and working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day. Ryggy would love that I am sure. Read the biography of Helen Keller if you want to get glimpse into that world - her little brother died in one of those nightmares.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 18, 2013
"There is no lack of gun control laws in Chicago or IL. What is not lacking is a corrupt political and legal system run by 'progressives'." - RyggTard

Chicago's primary mistake was in trusting Corporations to do right by their workers and the citizens who were the families of those workers.

It's secondary mistake was in presuming that American Capitalism was anything other than a spectacular failure, temporarily propped up by WWII.

For RyggTardieBoy, socialism - he can't even define socialism - is the boogyman under every bed.

Not enough BooBerries in your bowl of Captian Crunch? Blame socialism
Too many BooBerries in your bowl? Blame Socialism.

TeaBaggers like Ryggtard are mentally ill.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 19, 2013
"with all the rats and the bad food, and the overcrowding, and working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day. Ryggy would love that I am sure" - dir

Has there ever been a law restricting child labor that Republicans haven't opposed?
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 19, 2013
"But that same 'progressive' state promotes murdering children before they are born." - RyggTard

Here is a child that RyggTard demands die a slow painful death after being delivered full term.

http://www.nayari...4434.png

Here is another

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5uqr_ulcFg0/UFpDww_SfrI/AAAAAAAAAxU/2Olzpe2E95E/s1600/anencefalia6.jpg

This BABY will have a wonderfully productive life.

http://medicinewo...ects.jpg

But RyggTard demands that the state have no hand in supporting the child financially.

Make sure it's born, and then abandon it is the Libertarian/Randite policy

Here is a lovely little girl....

http://kamalayang...ones.jpg

Why hasn't RyggTard adopted her?

RyggTard want's this child to die horribly....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8P9CQ1n4RLg/Twh1wDcY_cI/AAAAAAAAAc4/6akTx9gaUPA/s320/fallujah+birth+defects.JPG

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 19, 2013
Perhaps RyggTard was just born without a brain like this baby....

http://farm5.stat...186d.jpg

For demanding that the above children be brought to full term and then left to die, I brand RyggTard one of the most immoral people to walk the earth.

He is one disgusting and despicably immoral Christian Patriot.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 19, 2013
I am not advocating for the current socialist govt system

You don't have a solution and are too afraid to offer one.
djr
5 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
"You don't have a solution and are too afraid to offer one."

How could I offer a solution, if I don't have one - that is a pretty crazy sentence. You don't have a solution either, and if you think you do - you are delusional. I think the current problems of poverty, crime, gangs, drug abuse, overcrowded prisons etc. are huge social problems that do not have easy answers. If you understand anything about history - you see the roots of these problems in colonialism, slavery, and religion. We are still living with the effects of these evils. As we move forward - we will hopefully evolve to a better state - and put these evils behind us. I actually see the solutions as coming from science and technology (why I read physorg - and object to your ignorance). Diverting our resources from war, into a real education system would be a help too. This is going to take many generations. The Taliban is not going to go away without a fight.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 19, 2013
poverty, crime, gangs, drug abuse, overcrowded prisons etc. are huge social problems that do not have easy answers

For an anti-theist they are not easy.
What needs to be done is easy. Implementation with atheist socialism is difficult since the solution involves the human soul and morality. Both in short supply among socialists and atheists.
djr
5 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
"What needs to be done is easy."

What an absurd statement - thinking that you have a magic wand - and can wish away problems as deep as poverty and crime - you really are an idiot. These problems are not only tough for an anti-theist - they are tough period. At least as anti-theists - we are willing to admit the enormity of this kind of problem - and begin the search for solutions. Dumping magic thinking like you engage in is first on my list of solutions - look for real solutions - not fairy story ones about a mythical old man in the sky - who sends any one who disagrees with him to hell for eternity.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 19, 2013
look for real solutions

Real solutions like instilling discipline, humility, responsibility are a few of the 'what's' that need to be done.
Govt can't do it.
Only the individual with support of family, society and finally rule of law can implement what needs to be done.
An anti-theist rejects out of hand organizations that can help.
'Liberals' turning the Boston bomber into a rock star is a symptom of how NOT to respond. Instead of holding criminals responsible for their acts, 'liberals' want to find and make excuses. {But not for a reported white man kills a thug attacking him. 'Liberals' want to lynch him.}
One result of this ignorance were the murders of professors in Huntsville, AL by a colleague refused tenure. Amy Bishop years earlier had killed her brother, with no repercussions from the local MA police.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 19, 2013
"The answer, of course, is when there are more people who develop the self-discipline to choose law-abiding behavior rather than law-breaking behavior. Self-discipline that helps a person choose lawful behavior can be developed through learning a sense of respect and caring for individuals and their property. This is crime prevention at its best. Unfortunately, many people don't sustain good behavior out of a sense of respect and caring, so the fear of punishment for a crime becomes a learning factor."
"If a person does not have respect and care for other people and their property, he or she is at risk of committing a crime because of not having developed the self-discipline for good behavior. "
"Parents, teachers, coaches and leaders in civic and church organizations who teach good character and values are real crime-prevention heroes"
http://www.lasveg...-in-fig/
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 19, 2013
" Kenneth "Boo" Glover turned 37 years old, out of prison, drug-free, employed. A major accomplishment in a small world.

Present at a birthday luncheon at the Timbuktu Restaurant in Hanover were the faithful women in his life -- mother Barbara Jean, sister Kim and aunt Cookie. They are seated among people out after church, all in their Sunday best. He blesses the food and says in prayer, "Thank you, Lord, for 37 years, to be where I am."

And the women say, "Amen." "
http://www.washin...7_5.html
{This is a good, but long article.}
When society and the state refuse to hold people accountable, it does get complicated.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 19, 2013
"Tell me where Jesus would allow drug dealing on the corner? Tell me where Jesus would allow people to shoot guns for no reason, missing and then hitting a child who is paralyzed for life? And we don't do anything but have a funeral. But let a cop shoot [a black man], and you set his car on fire and burn up the police stations. Contradictions.

"The black Muslims take time to explain who they are, so that by the time the children are 12 years old, male or female, they are proud of who and what they happen to be," he said.

And, normally, what a man or woman thinks of themselves internally is reflected externally, including the neighborhoods where they live. So look around at yourselves: what do the people in your neighborhood think of themselves?"
http://rollingout...ference/
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 19, 2013
"What we don't know is whose fault it is that Main Line children are doing so poorly–whether the school district is to blame, or whether, as Bill Cosby has pointedly suggested in recent remarks, much of the fault may lie with black parents and students themselves."
"If it's not money, if it's not segregation, what is it? There are two schools of thought: Either the school district's racism and classism create and maintain the achievement gap, or it results from black pathologies like unwed parenthood, chaotic households and unchecked TV-watching."
http://www.philly...s-right/
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 19, 2013
"In our own neighborhood, we have men in prison. No longer is a person embarrassed because they're pregnant without a husband. No longer is a boy considered an embarrassment if he tries to run away from being the father of the unmarried child."
"I'm talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? Where were you when he was twelve? Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don't know he had a pistol? And where is his father, and why don't you know where he is? And why doesn't the father show up to talk to this boy?"
http://www.americ...eech.htm
VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
"You don't have a solution" - RyggTard

Non-problems require no solution

Some problems, like your mental disease, have no solution.

Death is the only cure.
.

VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
""In our own neighborhood, we have men in prison. No longer is a person embarrassed because they're pregnant without a husband. " - RyggTard

It is called Freedom, Tardieboy.

Choke on it.
VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
"it results from black pathologies like unwed parenthood, chaotic households and unchecked TV-watching.. - RyggTard

Now RyggTard want's to limit TV watching for blacks.

It just ain't good for em, massa done said.

Apparently it isn't socialism when TeaTardie boy tells Blacks how much TV they can watch.
VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
"If it's not money, if it's not segregation, what is it? " - RyggTard

It's freedom baby.. American Money Grubbing Freedom.

Freedom means being free to be an imbecile like yourself.

Right?

VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
Real solutions like instilling discipline, humility, responsibility are a few of the 'what's' that need to be done." - RyggTard

In other words brain-washing by the state.

"None of which are compatible with freedom."

Poory RyggTard. He has become his own enemy.
VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
"Only the individual with support of family, society and finally rule of law can implement what needs to be done." - RyggTard

Individuals in your nation don't want to do it. Responsibility limits freedom and has unwanted costs.

Why should individual Americans be responsible, when American Corporations who are also considered people do not have to be responsible?

Do you consider the mass migration of American Corporations to the Pacific Rim and the Bankrupting of America a responsible action by American companies?

VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
"Amy Bishop years earlier had killed her brother, with no repercussions from the local MA police." - RyggTard

Because as we all know, American police don't investigate Murders.

CooKoo.

"She previously drew the attention of law-enforcement officials in 1986 when she shot her brother to death in Braintree, Massachusetts, in an incident officially ruled an accident." - Huntsville Police

Once again RyggTard is found to be just making it up as he goes along.

Lying is the only way he can keep the TeaTard rhetoric alive.
VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 19, 2013
"Tell me where Jesus would allow drug dealing on the corner? Tell me where Jesus would allow people to shoot guns for no reason, missing and then hitting a child who is paralyzed for life? And we don't do anything but have a funeral. But let a cop shoot [a black man], and you set his car on fire and burn up the police stations." - RyggTard

TeaTardieboy seems strangely fixated on Blacks.

Racists are like that.

ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (12) Jul 19, 2013
As Detroit files for bankruptcy it should be noted that it was the US that taught the Japanese companies about quality under the tutelage of Deming.
US companies were too arrogant as they had no competition after WWII and when some foreign competitors begin working on the fringes, crony capitalists and unions supported trade restrictions.
In the early 80s, Deming held seminars on how to improve quality. Ford sent a VP but Deming advised him to return as quality is not a program that can be forced. It is an attitude that requires leadership commitment from the top.
The challenge is that leaders must trust those they lead with some of their authority, give them responsibility and hold them accountable.
That's not really that complicated, unless the leader can't give up power.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 19, 2013
Orson Wells:
"In common with all Protestant and Jewish cultures, America was developed on the idea that your word is your bond. Otherwise, the frontier could never have been opened, 'cause it was lawless. A man's word had to mean something. My theory is that everything went to hell with Prohibition, because it was a law nobody could obey. So the whole concept of the rule of law was corrupted at that moment. Then came Vietnam, and marijuana, which clearly shouldn't be illegal, but is. If you go to jail for ten years in Texas when you light up a joint, who are you? You're a lawbreaker. It's just like Prohibition was. When people accept breaking the law as normal, something happens to the whole society. You see?"
http://blog.indep...-of-law/
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 20, 2013
In all of your rants Ryggy - I do not see one offer of a real solution. It is not a solution to say 'people need to behave more responsibly.' Of course we agree with that maxim - but just saying that does not change anything. NOTHING you have just said in all of your rants constitutes a real world solution. You have highlighted many of the problems - and then said - 'so people need to behave more responsibly.' But problems of poverty and crime just don't go away when you say 'Jesus would not have allowed drug dealers.' Where are the solutions?
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 20, 2013
Let me pick up on one more point Ryggy - to show how totally out of touch you are. You lionize Orson Wells, and his expression of how moral, and wonderful the old frontier days were. But you obviously do not realize that the U.S. government has broken every treaty that it ever signed with the people who inhabited this land before the Christian nations tore it to piecies - http://blog.nrcpr...-broken/

Are you aware Ryggy that your moral and upright early settlers paid bounty for the scalp of a Native American? http://askville.a...=2411251

You need to read some real history books Ryggy - instead of relying on what your Sunday School teacher tells you about the romance of the settling of the 'greatest nation on earth'. Go ahead - talk to us about morality.......
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 20, 2013
"When people accept breaking the law as normal, something happens to the whole society. You see?"

When you accept cutting an innocent persons scalp off - and selling it to your government - as normal - you go down the road of a f**cked up society. Time to get rid of religion Ryggy.

http://www.histor...scalping

Read up on the Battle of Sand Creek if you want to educate yourself Ryggy. I doubt you really do - it is easier to believe what Fox news tells you.....http://en.wikiped...massacre
VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 20, 2013
"As Detroit files for bankruptcy it should be noted that it was the US that taught the Japanese companies about quality under the tutelage of Deming." - RyggTard

How sad for America that Deming was so thoroughly ignored - and laughed off - by American companies.

The Japanese have a long history of adopting foreign technology, dramatically improving it and then selling it back to the country from which it came.

Cont...

VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 20, 2013
Toyota was founded in 1926 as Toyoda Automatic Loom Works, Ltd. by Sakichi Toyoda, the inventor of a series of manual and machine-powered looms. The most impressive of these was the 1924 Toyoda Automatic Loom, Type G, a completely automatic high-speed loom featuring the ability to change shuttles without stopping and dozens of other innovations. At the time it was the world's most advanced loom, delivering a dramatic improvement in quality and a twenty-fold increase in productivity.[2] In 2007, this machine was registered as item No. 16 in the Mechanical Engineering Heritage of Japan as "a landmark achievement that advanced the global textile industry and laid the foundation for the development of the Toyota Group.
VendicarE
1 / 5 (2) Jul 20, 2013
"Orson Wells:" - RyggTard

Isn't an authority on anything other than being a Hollywood Actor.

So now TardieBoy is so despite for material that he is appealing to celebrity.

In fact, the entire Republican echo chamber is designed around finding some ridiculous comment made by anyone - Joe the Plumber - for example, and then using that comment as if it has some intellectual authority behind it, when in fact all it is as a statement of the ideology that they are trying to support.

This feedback mechanism is the reason why Republican Tardieboys, are so out of touch with reality.

They consume their own dung.

VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 20, 2013
Priceless Libertarian Stupidity. Comedy has never been so funny.

Watch to the end.....

http://www.youtub...i110hIzQ
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 20, 2013
early settlers paid bounty for the scalp of a Native American? http://askville.a...=2411251

"Based on markings on skulls, drawings, linguistic clues, and the diaries of 15th- and 16th-century explorers, their conclusions were ultimately published in a 1981 book, "The European and the Indian," which argues that the practice of scalping in North and South America predated the arrival of Christopher Columbus. "
"the English in Connecticut paid the Mohegans for the heads of Pequots"
"Scalping continued up to the Revolutionary War, with Englishmen even scalping each other on the battlefields."
http://www.hawtho...263.html
I do not see one offer of a real solution.

I am not surprised. There is no socialist solution so you can't see one.
problems of poverty and crime just don't go away w

If you read the WaPo story, you find how one man changed.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 20, 2013
From a fellow atheist who was not a socialist:
"That which you call your soul or spirit is your consciousness, and that which you call "free will" is your mind's freedom to think or not, the only will you have, your only freedom, the choice that controls all the choices you make and determines your life and your character." | P3C7
Rand, Atlas Shrugged
Which means individual's choose their character and how they respond to life.
Societies and states that don't support the individual are part of the problem.
VendicarE
2 / 5 (4) Jul 20, 2013
Tea Tard Loonie runs for mayor. Calls for "Instant death penalty" and a 12 foot tall wall around city to keep out blacks from Detroit.

http://cbsdetroit...mp;h=217
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 20, 2013

"From a fellow atheist who was not a socialist:" - RyggTard

Ahahahahah.. Now the Tardieboy is quoting from fictional characters written in fictional stories, to support his lunacy.

Sorry Tardieboy. But your quote isn't from an atheist. It isn't even from a person.

It is entirely fantasy, and that reality underscores your inability to distinguish between the real world and your delusional fantasy world.

You are mentally diseased Tardieboy. Get help.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 20, 2013
the practice of scalping in North and South America predated the arrival of Christopher Columbus. "

Great argument Ryggy - they did it first - so that makes it fine for us to do it right? Fine for us to cut a person's scalp off - and then get a bounty from our government. And you want to talk to us about morality????/

Your history is wrong any way Ryggy - scalping dates back many centuries - earliest dates are from Eurasia. See - http://en.wikiped...Scalping
VendicarE
2 / 5 (4) Jul 20, 2013
RyggTardieboy is now scouring the Internet for quotes that link scalping with Socialism, and the ongoing contamination of his bodily fluids by black helicopters that are spraying Commie mist over his house.

Hopefully he will get medical treatment before he traps his children in the bathroom and burns down his house on the orders of the apparition of Good Christian David Koresh that appears above the foot of his bed every night.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 20, 2013
Here is a neat quote for Ryggy from the wiki article on scalping - " in June 12, 1755, Lieutenant Governor Spencer Phips of Massachusetts Bay colony was offering a bounty of £40 for a male Indian scalp, and £20 for scalps of females or of children under 12 years old"

Wonder if Orson Wells thinks that paying for the bloody scalps of little children is brave and honorable. It must have been a wonderful time of honor back then. Go to church on Sunday, and scalp a few little children on Monday - nice way to make a living eh Ryggy!
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 20, 2013
et a bounty from our government

"OUR"?
In 1755 the govt was British. dj is from UK, right?
"The removal of the skin covering the top of a person head during or after a battle dates back to the Scythians (c. 400 BC). The Visigoths also took scalps during the wars with the Anglo-Saxons in the 9th century. When the Europeans first visited America they observed that the Huron, Chichimec, Iroquoi and Muskhogean tribes scalped enemy warriors. "
"In 1688, the French-Canadians began paying for every enemy scalp. This encouraged the emergence of groups trying to make a business out of scalping settlers. The British responded in 1693 by announcing that they would pay money for the scalps of Frenchmen and their Indian allies. As much as £100 was obtained for an important scalp."
http://www.sparta...ping.htm
Shelgeyr
2 / 5 (12) Jul 20, 2013
Our agenda isn't hidden. The libs only think it is because they're stupid, and can't comprehend open opposition to those things which are destroying our country.

We oppose Marxism, communism, statism, collectivism, whatever you care to call it - it all has the same completely evil core.

And we stand against it.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 20, 2013
"In Ireland, for instance, the occupying ENGLISH once paid bounties for the heads of their enemies brought to them. It was a way for those in power to get other people to do their dirty, bloody work for them.

Europeans brought this cruel custom of paying for killings to the American frontier."
http://www.manata...438.html
"n both Canada and Nova Scotia, aboriginal warriors received bounties for the scalps of British soldiers (and sometimes civilians) that they delivered up to the French authorities.
This is incontestably documented in colonial correspondence from French governors at Quebec City and at Louisbourg to their superiors in France. Indisputable proof of this may also be found in the financial accounts of both Quebec and Louisbourg pertaining to the French colonial period.
The French records clearly show that during the early 1750s British scalps were taken (and paid for) in places as close to P.E.I. as the Chignecto area and the Strait of Canso."
http://www.theguar
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 20, 2013
Previous link: http://www.thegua...scalps/1

Of course what Orson Wells was referring to was something like this:
"But as several empirical investigations have pointed out, much to the so-called "conservatives" and "liberals" (actually two branches of social democracy, dogma and fallacy based, respectively) dismay, the less government there is, the more peaceful and prosperous a territory can be with respect to its own cultural potential."
http://libertaria...in-fact/
and this: http://voluntaryc...lism.pdf
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 20, 2013
Sure Ryyg - change the subject - the fact is that the U.S. government was paying bounty for the scalps of little children - and you want to idealize that time in history. Then you try to talk to us about morality. Keep howling at the moon Ryggy - maybe you can change reality if you howl loud enough.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 20, 2013
Orson Wells said nothing about scalps. The Brit, dj brought it up, out of the blue.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 20, 2013
"Orson Wells said nothing about scalps." - RyggTard

The only person who quoted Orson Wells was you TardieBoy. You did it to lend support to your belief in Christian exceptionalism.

Your goal was to use celebrity to support your ideologically based claim rather than use facts and reason, since you have no facts to offer, and your ability to reason logically is significantly impaired by your mental disease.

Get help.

djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 20, 2013
That 'less government' issue probably did not feel to good if you were a Native American back in those days - did it Ryggy. Did you read up on the Sand Creek massacre? Did you read the part about how it was ordered by a Methodist preacher and freemason? Great world back then eh Ryggy?
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Jul 20, 2013
"The removal of the skin covering the top of a person head during or after a battle dates back to the Scythians (c. 400 BC). The Visigoths also took scalps during the wars with the Anglo-Saxons in the 9th century. " - RyggTard

So you are saying that Scalping children is moral because the Scythians did it 2400 years ago?

The Scythians also raped and murdered. Is that what you use to excuse Rape and Murder?
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 20, 2013
Orson Wells said nothing about scalps. The Brit, dj brought it up, out of the blue.

Yes I did - because you were trying to suggest that life on the frontier was idylic - and 'a man's word had to mean something' - in other words there was great morality in the frontier days - and I showed you evidence to the exact opposite - it was a cruel and lawless time - and good 'Christian' people had no problem killing children for money.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 20, 2013
with the orphanages connected to the garment factories

Thanks to the British govt.

I think the current problems of poverty, crime, gangs, drug abuse, overcrowded prisons etc. are huge social problems that do not have easy answers.


The answer is easy.

"If you wou'd be reveng'd of your enemy, govern yourself."
Benjamin Franklin
What's complicated for atheists like dj is how to force people to govern themselves.
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (16) Jul 20, 2013
with the orphanages connected to the garment factories

Thanks to the British govt.

I think the current problems of poverty, crime, gangs, drug abuse, overcrowded prisons etc. are huge social problems that do not have easy answers.


The answer is easy.

"If you wou'd be reveng'd of your enemy, govern yourself."
Benjamin Franklin
What's complicated for atheists like dj is how to force people to govern themselves.
t was a cruel and lawless time

Compared to what?
I did not say idylic, and neither did Wells. What he said was the US frontier was lawless and the only way it was settled was by trust. ' a person's word was his bond'.
The family of Laura Ingalls traveled from WI to KS to SD in a covered wagon in the late 1800s and somehow survived the wildness.
People who lived on the frontier had to depend upon each other and there was little margin for cruelty to each other. Nature was harsh enough for homesteaders they didn't need to fight amongst themselves.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 20, 2013
Yeah Ryggy - so what do you say to the little children who were scalped by the nice Christian people who took over THEIR land? What do you tell the dead people who listened to Black Kettle when he told them not to worry - the good Christian people had given their word that they would not be harmed. It is too f**cking convenient for you isn't it Ryggy - Good Christians - bad Native Americans - I mean they were savages right - they were not Christians - they had it coming right Ryggy? And you want to talk to us about morality - you hypocrite you.

"they didn't need to fight amongst themselves."

But you have no problem with them scalping little children......Do some reading Ryggy - learn what really happened in your world - not what the Sunday School teacher brainwashed in to you.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 21, 2013
"If you wou'd be reveng'd of your enemy, govern yourself" - RyggTard misattributing a quote from Benjamin Franklin.

What RyggTard doesn't want people to know is that Franklin was referring to drinking to excess in the comment above.

The entire quote goes...

"Drink water. Put the money in your pocket, and leave the dry bellyache in the punchbowl." " If you woul'd be reveng'd of your enemy, govern yourself."

Poor Tea Tard. With all the misrepresentations of fact, of history, of reason fed him by Faux news and other dishonest Conservative Information providers, is it any wonder why he lives in La-La land.

On the other hand Franklin seems to know the TeaPublicans quite well..

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do." - Franklin

And RyggTard in particular...

"Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest." - Franklin

Ouch! What a slam on TardieBoy.

ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
dj discovered people, even Christians, are not perfect.
If you want to go down that route, lets look at the what the British did to those aboriginal peoples in their Empire and what atheist socialists did to their people.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 21, 2013
If you want to go down that route, lets look at the what the British did to those aboriginal peoples in their Empire and what atheist socialists did to their people.

I will be the first to have a conversation about the blood soaked history of the British Empire. We have probably slaughtered more innocent people than any one. I am not the one trying to lie to myself about the moral nature of the early frontier days. An atheist is simply someone who does not believe in god. Atheism is not a religion - it is the absence of religion. Talking about what has been done by other atheists - is like talking to me about what has been done by other people who do not wear contact lenses. Yes - terrible things have been done by atheists. What they did does not reflect badly on atheism - only on that individual (Pol Pot for example). Murdering people in the name of God and Country (as practiced by all the colonial powers) is a very different story.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 21, 2013
dj discovered people, even Christians, are not perfect.

Stupid comment Ryggy - sure - none of us are perfect, but slaughtering innocent people in the name of your god is a very different animal than 'not being perfect'.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
Murdering people in the name of atheism is not acceptable either?
What they did does not reflect badly on atheism


Lenin flat out sated communists must be atheists.

in the name of God and Country

I can't find anywhere in the New Testament where Jesus advocates murder for God or Country.
I think a doctrine, a philosophy that has a commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" is preferred even if no one can live up to the commandment 100% of time. Jesus understands and when one fails, God forgives that failure IF one truly repents the failure and continues to try.
Compare this to the atheist communist doctrine that uses state power to murder, to plunder because murder and plunder IS part of the doctrine.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 21, 2013
"Murdering people in the name of atheism is not acceptable either?"

You totally miss the point as usual Ryggy. Of course murdering people in the name of atheism is evil. Murdering people is evil. Let me give you an analogy. Hitler murdered for many reasons - but just for this argument - let's say Hitler murdered in the name of blue eyed, blonde, arian supremacy. Does that mean that all people with blue eyes and blonde hair are evil? Of course not. Any more than all Christians are evil for what has been done in the name of Christianity. However - history is soaked in the blood - much in the name of god. Great evil continues to be done in the name of god. Evil is not being done in the name of atheism. Many atheists are evil - but that is an important distinction - that I fear is lost on you.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
" The socialist creed rests upon three dogmas:

First: Society is an omnipotent and omniscient being, free from human frailty and weakness. {For the socialist, society is god.}

Second: The coming of socialism is inevitable.

Third: As history is a continuous progress from less perfect conditions to more perfect conditions, the coming of socialism is desirable."
"The essential mark of socialism is that one will alone acts. It is immaterial whose will it is."
http://mises.org/...sec2.asp

The classical liberals who believed in an omniscient, perfect God, were led to a philosophy that each human individual, not a collection of individuals (society) have inherent rights to life, liberty and property. From such free individuals emerged a society and state that was designed to defend the individual. But not all individuals believe in God and believe any rights are dictated by omniscience society, led, of course, by one or more imperfect humans.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 21, 2013
does that mean that all people with blue eyes and blonde hair are evil? Of course not. Any more than all Christians are evil for what has been done in the name of Christianity.

How big of you to say so!
Evil is not being done in the name of atheism.

Lenin was unequivocal, communists must be atheists.
Socialism is Godless and much evil is done in its name.
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 21, 2013
"murder and plunder IS part of the doctrine." Ryggy - you continue to conflate socialism with atheism. It is frustrating that you cannot understand the difference.

Murder and plunder is not part of atheism - that is a really ignorant contention. Murder and plunder may be done by atheists - but not in the name of atheism. See if you can get your mind around the difference. Murder and Plunder ARE done in the name of Christianity, and Isam, and Bhudism, and Hinduism etc. etc. etc.
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 21, 2013
You don't say!

Stop cutting sentences in half and changing the meaning - that is childish.

"Lenin was unequivocal, communists must be atheists.
Socialism is Godless and much evil is done in its name."

You continue to make the same error. Please answer this question - are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you truly too stupid to understand what is actually a very simple point. Socialism and Atheism are not the same thing. Atheism is simply the absence of religion. Just the same as being single is the absence of being married. If a single person does something evil - that does not indict all single people. If a Christian does something evil - that does not indict all Christians. However - when evil is done in the name of Religion - that does indict religion. It is a false set of beliefs - that OFTEN lead to great evil (look at what the Taliban does). My point is, and always has been - our world will be better off when we grow out of the need for religion. cont.

ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
Murder and plunder is not part of atheism -

In the ten commandments from God, He explicitly states that murder, plunder, lying, adultery are against His Law.

Atheists don't believe in God or His commandments so are free to murder, plunder and lie for their God-less way of life?
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
cont.

When we grow beyond the need for the fairy stories of religion to help us feel good about ourselves - we will be better off. There is no doubt in my mind that the world is moving towards secularism as we become better educated - and the world will be a much better place when everyone is atheist (which is an inevitability - sadly, probably not in my life time.)
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
"Atheists don't believe in God or His commandments so are free to murder, plunder and lie for their God-less way of life?"

That is a very ignorant premise. Secular humanism is a very moral philosophy. As an atheist I am not free to murder, plunder or lie. I am bound by my own set of principles - that did not come from a mythical fairy in the sky - but came from a deliberative process. I see this as a much higher means of arriving at a system of morals.

If you are going to use the old testament for your system of morality - you better be ready for some pretty weird stuff - like concluding that it is OK to own slaves - and even to beat them - just not too badly.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
Murder and Plunder ARE done in the name of Christianity, and Isam, and Bhudism, and Hinduism etc. etc. etc.


And orders of magnitude MORE murder and plunder has been done in the name of the state, yet dj is not too concerned about state power.
I am bound by my own set of principles -

Which could be murder and plunder. After all, only you are the judge.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
"And orders of magnitude MORE murder and plunder has been done in the name of the state, yet dj is not too concerned about state power."

Now you are being really ignorant. I don't know how you quantify how much murder has been done in the name of the state vs. how much has been done in the name of religion. However - I have been very consistent in condemning the evil that has been done in the name of the state. Often it has been very mixed up - you know - the old British maxim - 'For God and Country' There is not point in having a conversation - if you are going to be stupid and ignorant.

ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
"The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people – the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped – have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is permitted.""
http://www.csmoni...age%29/2
And we can't forget how science promoted and perpetuated the eugenics craze leading to millions of atrocities.

ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 21, 2013
[
I don't know how you quantify how much murder has been done in the name of the state vs. how much has been done in the name of religion

Then how can you make your claims against religion of you have no data?

Here is data:
"Governments have murdered hundreds of millions of their citizens and those under their control. The questions are, then, how is this democide defined, is genocide included, how many have been killed, how do we find this out, and what sources can be used?"
http://www.hawaii...RDER.HTM
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
" The level of education or economic development of a nation is uncorrelated with and does not predict to the foreign or domestic democide or the genocide of its regime. "
"just before World War II Germany was considered one of the most developed and educated nations in the world. Moreover, Japan was the most educated and developed nation in Asia at the same time it was carrying out mass extermination campaigns in China. "
{dj asserts education will cure all}
"the bottom line of this research is that power kills and the more power the more killing."
"The more power a government has, the more it can act arbitrarily according to the whims and desires of the elite, the more it will make war on others and murder its foreign and domestic subjects. "
http://www.hawaii...APER.HTM
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
ur world will be better off when we grow out of the need for religion.

No, it will be better off when people don't want the power to control others.
Christianity and other religions promote humility. Humility limits a desire to control others.
AGWites lack humility and have the hubris to believe they can fix the world.
May atheists lack humility and assert those who believe in God are not as good, not as smart as they.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
"Then how can you make your claims against religion of you have no data?"

What you are saying here is - 'because I do not know how many people died in the crusades - I cannot determine that the crusades were evil.' I hope you recognize the stupidity of your position.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
'No, it will be better off when people don't want the power to control others.'

I agree fully - and religion is one of the worst offenders in terms of controlling others. Why do the Taliban insist that women cover themselves, and girls not be allowed to go to school. Why do the Catholics and Protestants, or the Sunni and the Shia, or the Moslems and the Christians - kill each other in endless cycles of violence and hatred?

I have no interest in controlling others - I simply believe that when left alone - people naturally understand the reality that there is no fairy god in the sky - and the true meaning of life is to find yourself, and knowledge. Read Dr. Meyers book if you want to see how badly Christians want to control others.

"Christianity and other religions promote humility." Some do, and some don't. I don't see too much humility in John Hagee, or Benny Hihn.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
"And we can't forget how science promoted and perpetuated the eugenics craze leading to millions of atrocities."

Many terrible things have been done by scientists. You continue to show a complete misunderstanding of what atheism is - I think it is deliberate. Atheism is the absence of religion. Atheism is not science. Many atheists are evil. Many scientists are evil. In general - science has been a great force for the evolution of our species. We are on the verge of creating artificial intelligence that is superior to individual human intelligence. Then the lid comes off our development. I am excited to witness that moment.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 21, 2013
superior to individual human intelligence
I am excited to witness that moment.

And you say you are not a socialist! If you hate being human, why are you still alive?
Define superior.
You should dust off the Star Trek Episode, The Return of the Archons. "the society has no spirit, no spark; Landru's orders are being issued by a computer. "
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (16) Jul 21, 2013
religion is one of the worst offenders in terms of controlling others.

The state is not worse?
I suggest those in DPRK, Mao's China, or even today's China, or those who survived under Saddam and his sons, or Stalin, Mugabe, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Adolf, .... or dozens of other state tyrannies would not agree.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
"Then how can you make your claims against religion of you have no data?"

What you are saying here is - 'because I do not know how many people died in the crusades - I cannot determine that the crusades were evil.' I hope you recognize the stupidity of your position.


What is more significant for you? The quantity killed/murdered or the quality? A socialist wouldn't really care about the quantity murdered, only the quality.
As a recent example, the socialists are more excited about the quality of the death of Trayvon Martin, who attacked George Zimmerman and was killed by GZ defending himself. In the meantime, just during the trial, in Chicago, many more black youth were murdered. But there is no hue or cry from the socialists.
dj is more concerned about how religion was used to kill, while the state killed orders of magnitude MORE people.
According to this source, http://www.hawaii...DER.HTM, ~ 1million were killed over a 250+ year time in the Crusades.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
I have been very consistent in condemning the evil that has been done in the name of the state

The physorg article is about attacking the tea parties for opposing BHO's socialism.
Yet all dj can do is attack those who are opposed to BHO.
BHO is spying on reporters, spying on anyone he thinks opposes him using state power like the NSA and IRS. He lets his representatives get murdered in Libya. He allows the illegal sale of firearms to Mexico in order to attack the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment.
And all dj can say is I am a racist for being critical of the Dear Leader for the evil he is doing in the name of the state.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
"You should dust off the Star Trek Episode, The Return of the Archons. "the society has no spirit, no spark; Landru's orders are being issued by a computer. " - RyggTard

Everything TardieBoy claims to knwo about the real world seems to come from deliberate misinterpretation of real world events, outright fabrication, or his inability to distinguish between fiction and fact.

Odd how it never occurs to him that in "The Day The Earth Stood Still", Klatu describes his advanced meta-society as being policed and therefor governed by a race of robots that they had created. One of those robots was Gort.

Poor TardieBoy. His mind is so limited, so small and so closed, and so polluted by his corrupt, immoral ideology.

Death is the only cure to his mental disease.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 21, 2013
"The physorg article is about attacking the tea parties for opposing BHO's socialism." - RyggTard

RyggTard either didn't read the article, doesn't remember what it is about, or is lying about it's content, because the article is clearly about the inherent racism in the TeaPublican Movement.

But it can't be explanation 1 since at the beginning of the comments list TardieBoy was whining about how the Article was misrepresenting the TeaPublicans as racists.

So we are left with option 2 or 3. Too stupid to remember, or just a liar.

Given RyggTard's long history of lying, I take his comment to be just another example.

I have never encountered a Libertarian/Randite who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

RyggTard is no exception to that observation.
djr
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
"Yet all dj can do is attack those who are opposed to BHO."

In my view - President Obama is no better, and no worse than all of the other presidents. I am offended by the spying scandals, and even more by his continuation of the Bush wars. I am not a supporter of President Obama, although I do find him a more intelligent, and enlightened person than President Bush was. I believe a great deal of the opposition to President Obama is fueled by racism - some of which you exhibited earlier on this thread. That racism makes me very sad. Fortunately for our world - the younger generation of Americans seems to be more tollerant of multi culture, and less inclined to the simplistic racist thinking of folks like you Ryggy. Also they are more inclined to atheism - which I think is a natural part of the evolution of the human race.
GermanJoey
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 21, 2013
Star Trek you say? Mr. Data has something to say about this.

youtube.com/watch?v=a9GftrRJXkE
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
I do find him a more intelligent, and enlightened person than President Bush was.

Why won't he publish is academic record to prove it?
Ever hear BHO speak without a teleprompter?
the opposition to President Obama is fueled by racism

Socialism IS your religion if you believe this.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
"Mr. Obama has said a lot of unsmart things: there are 57 states; Canada has a president; "Austrian" is a language; America is "20 centuries" old; Arabic is spoken in Afghanistan. He's called the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) the Maldives, and declared it would be "unprecedented" for the Supreme Court to invalidate a law passed by Congress."
"President Obama's stimulus bill didn't stimulate. His subsidies to "green" firms have produced neither the jobs nor the energy he promised. Unemployment on his watch peaked at 10 percent, one of the highest rates since the Great Depression. Deficits are out of control."
""According to my professor friend, [Obama] had the lowest intellectual capacity in the building. ... The other professors hated him because he was lazy, unqualified,""
http://www.realcl...271.html
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 21, 2013
"youtube.com/watch?v=a9GftrRJXkE" - Joey

Are you casting RyggTard as a fictional Ferengi, Dishonest, Disreputable, Untrustworthy, Greedy, Cowardly, and Slovenly?

If so, then I agree, he is self evidently all of the above.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 21, 2013
From RyggTard's own link....

"Barack Obama is the smartest man with the highest IQ ever to be elected to the presidency, historian Michael Beschloss told radio talk show host Don Imus in November of 2008."

Poor Tardieboy. It is a shame you have such trouble reading.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 21, 2013
From RyggTard's link...

"And, according to blogger Doug Ross, he wasn't very popular with the real professors."

In other words according to some TeaTard nobody (Doug Ross) who' fame and expertise comes from writing an internet blog, Obama wasn't very liked.

RyggTard's sources have zero credibility. But at least this one is a real person rather than a the fictional characters he has used in the past.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 21, 2013
"We don't know the revenue-maximizing point of the Laffer Curve, but Obama seems determined to push tax rates so high that the government collects less revenue. Not that we should be surprised. During the 2008 campaign, he actually said he would like higher tax rates even if the government collected less revenue."
{Why would BHO want HIGHER tax RATES if LESS revenue is raised? POWER and control.}
http://danieljmit...k-obama/

BHO and his regime have been very smart fooling some and intimidating others, NSA, IRS, racist!, into transforming the USA into a complete socialist state. This is what dj admires.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 21, 2013
"We don't know the revenue-maximizing point of the Laffer Curve, but Obama seems determined to push tax rates so high that the government collects less revenue." - RyggTard

Tax rates have gone down under Obama.

If you don't know the maximum point of the Laffer Curve then you don't know if raising tax rates will raise or lower revenue, so the second sentence of RyggTard;s quote is logically disconnected and in fact a contradiction of the first sentence.

Moooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrooooooooonnnnnnnnn
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 21, 2013
And who is RyggTard's latest quote source? It is a real person this time rather than some fictional character.

The person is Dan Mitchell, chief economic Liar for the Fascist CATO Institute.

Dan flys around the country paid by American Corporations to promote the idea of a flat tax in which the wealthy are excluded from paying income tax on their investment income I.E. their primary source of income.

Dan is the biggest promoter of income inequity in America. In his eyes, the wealthy shouldn't pay taxes.

Taxes are only for the little people.

djr
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 21, 2013
"his grades from Harvard Law School. It is public record, and was reported in the press of that time (1991) that he graduated in the top 10% of his class and received academic honors (Magna Cum Laude). His professors also have said publicly that he was a top student, which is why he became the editor of the Harvard Law Review. "

From - http://wiki.answe..._college

But Ryggy can find evidence that President Obama is not smart - or could it be that Ryggy does not like President Obama - and will do yoga pretzels to find some asshole looking for publicity to put the President down. Filth....

And Ryggy claims that atheists have no morals. Look in the mirror Ryggy.
VendicarE
2 / 5 (8) Jul 22, 2013
Deceit is the ultimate immorality since it is used to excuse or hide all other forms

Self deceit is the highest form of deceit since lying to oneself comes only after lying to everyone else.

Libertarians, Randites, Tea-Publicans and Republicans live in worlds of non-stop self deceit.

Their ideologies are the most immoral belief systems on the planet.

The sooner they are exterminated the better.
PeterParker
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 22, 2013
Vendicar is exactly right. Deceit is the worst form of immorality, and RyggTard has been caught telling multiple lies on this thread.

I have also never encountered a child of Rand who wasn't a continuous liar.

Filth.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 22, 2013
djr, you stated: Atheism is not science. Many atheists are evil.

Do you believe that evil and morality is to be defined by the majority?

For example if Hitler won, and a majority of people agreed with him that killing Jews is ok, why wouldn't killing Jews be ok, Would it still be evil to kill Jews or would it become the moral thing to do?

ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 22, 2013
It is public record,

The link has no public record.
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 22, 2013
Many atheists are evil.
Many Christians are evil. Hitler was a lifelong Catholic. The Pope aided and abetted him.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (6) Jul 22, 2013
Documenting RyggTard's continuous stream of lies about Obama....

http://www.factch...records/
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 22, 2013
"Do you believe that evil and morality is to be defined by the majority?"

No I do not. If you want an example of the development of a system of morality - that does not involve God, or a magic book, do some reading on secular humanism. When I see the example of morality that a racist like Ryggy demonstrates on this board (expression of racist ideas, lack of concern for the suffering of others, child like misinterpretation of the horrors of history etc.) - I can assure you that many secular humanists have a much more consistent moral code than many religionists.

djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 23, 2013
"Many Christians are evil. Hitler was a lifelong Catholic. The Pope aided and abetted him."

No question John - I was not trying to label atheists as evil - I am an atheist. My point was that just because someone is an atheist - and that person does evil things, that does not make atheism evil. Ryggy tries to use this false logic - 'Lennin was an atheist, Lennin did evil things - therfore atheism is evil.' I keep trying to explain that atheism is simply the absence of religion - and that I may have nothing in common with another atheist - other than we both do NOT go to church. It falls on deaf ears.
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 23, 2013
"The link has no public record."

Because it is public - meaning you can find it easily if you want. Here is an interview with one of Obama's professors - which validates the assertion that President Obama had a stellar record at Harvard. http://www.dailyk...d-Record

You should also read Vendi's link - it was very informative. You may want to think about what it makes you look like - doing yoga pretzels to find any way you can to smear the character of the President.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 23, 2013
djr, so where do secular humanists get their morality code? Do they make it up? Do they vote on it? How do I know that a secularist humanists morality code is good?

For example, some secular humanists say black skinned people are not as good as white skinned people and need to be eliminated from society. Are they wrong, if so, how do I know they are wrong?

How do I know which secular humanist code economic system to follow? There are some secular humanists who say communism is the best, while others say capitalism is best?

Or is it the easiest just to follow the secular humanists who are popular right now?
JohnGee
1 / 5 (8) Jul 23, 2013
Secular humanists derive their moral code through exercise of free thought, something you would know nothing about.

Do they make it up?
No, unlike your bronze-age fairy tails.

Do they vote on it?
No, morals are not to be imposed on others unless it would violate the harm principle.

How do I know that a secularist humanists morality code is good?
Well, I'd say that varies from person to person. Just like with Christians. A Christian's moral code tends to be good in proportion with how much that christian ignores the bible. The more strictly you follow the bible, the more of an asshole you are.

How do I know which secular humanist code economic system to follow?
This isn't even an intelligible question.

Or is it the easiest just to follow the secular humanists who are popular right now?
Follow? What secular humanists are in positions of power in the US? You want to be persecuted so badly you can't even acknowledge you're in the majority.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (12) Jul 23, 2013
If the public record is so easy to find regarding BHOs official Harvard grades, provide a link to the official Harvard.edu site showing the grades.
free thought

Then you are free to think that Jews should be exterminated?
My point was that just because someone is an atheist - and that person does evil things, that does not make atheism evil.

But atheists assert that when a theist is evil, it is the fault of the theism.
Theists have a well established, published moral codes to follow.
Atheists have no such well established, published moral codes to follow and are free to make it up as they desire.
JohnGee
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 23, 2013
Then you are free to think that Jews should be exterminated?
In the United States? Yes, certainly. Have you read the Constitution?
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 23, 2013
If the public record is so easy to find regarding BHOs official Harvard grades, provide a link to the official Harvard.edu site showing the grades.

Colleges do not post individuals grades on their web sites - that is a really stupid assertion. I have provided you with testimony from one of President Obama's professors who confirms that he was an excellent student. The President graduated Magna Cum Laude, and was the editor of the Harvard review. Your continued attempts to smear the President in any way you can - show you up for the very small minded person you are.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 23, 2013
Free - JohnGee wrote an excellent response to your question - I concurr.

Being that you seem either unwilling or incapable of doing a little honest research - I will give you a link to an example of Secular Humanist values. Counter to your poor understanding - it is possible to have a very comprehensive moral code - without the need to reference God.

http://www.secula...ion=main
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 23, 2013
Secular Humanist values

Sounds similar to the USSR constitution.
Didn't see anything about the rights of an individual human being, and I am not surprised.

freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 23, 2013
djr, do you believe that some things are right for some people and some situations that may be wrong for other people and other situations? Basically that there is no absolute right and wrong and everything depends on the situation?
djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 23, 2013
free I don't mind answering your questions - but think it would be decent if you took the time to read the answers - and answer any questions that I respond with. Look earlier at the question regarding the problem of infinite regression.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 23, 2013
Secular humanists derive their moral code through exercise of free thought - sounds very scientific, but what does it mean?

Do they make it (morals) up? JG answer: No, Then where do they come from? Humanists say it is from science, yet science deals with facts but Morals are behaviors.

Also isn't the do no harm relative? For example in my eyes not killing a rival leader will do harm to my standing in the community, or in my eyes his leadership is dangerous so killing him is helping the community and so not causing harm but doing good.

(But) morals are not to be imposed on others unless it would violate the harm principle. This harm principle is what? Immediate harm, potential harm, possible harm, or actual harm?
Would a secular humanist support banning, smoking, gambling, para-shooting, abortion, race car driving, scuba diving, loud music concerts.

freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 23, 2013
If one famous still popular and honored humanist called for the the elimination of human weeds, for the cessation of charity, for the segregation of morons, misfits, and the maladjusted and for the sterilization of genetically inferior races, would that be wrong? This famous humanist wanted to ensure that the eugenically superior strains could multiply without competition from the unfit, and so argued that it was moral to do these things.

This morality sounds very scientific as it is for the greater good of society because it harms society if genetically inferior races or people are allowed to out breed superior strains?

How would a secular humanist respond? Is it evil to promote such philosophies? If it is evil, why is it evil from a secular humanist position as humanists?
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (14) Jul 23, 2013
In 'I Robot', the AI, which dj prefers, said humans needed to be controlled, for their own safety.
How moral is this?
Morals are behaviors.

Morals are values which science can't address.
"He puzzled over whether it was A-OK for a man to kill his daughter after she had been raped in order to save his (and her) honor. Most of us say no, though our mere agreement is not a proof we're right. "
""The demagogues are right about one thing: we need a universal conception of human values." In so admitting what is true, that there are moral absolutes, he has not proved these absolutes are scientific. "
http://wmbriggs.c.../?p=7671
" Facts don't lead to values."
http://www.empiri...ould-be/
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 23, 2013
In 'I Robot', the AI, which dj prefers, said humans needed to be controlled, for their own safety.
How moral is this?

So Ryggy goes from quoting Orson Wells - to talking about a science fiction story - in a discussion about morals. Let me put it simply Ryggy - you gave up the right to talk to others about morals - when you broadcast your racist nonsense on the internet - and then showed that you would go to any length to smear the reputation of the President - including telling lies about him - spread by a serial criminal. You have no authority on the issue of morals.....
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 24, 2013
The first manifesto, entitled simply A Humanist Manifesto, was written in 1933 primarily by Roy Wood Sellars and Raymond Bragg and was published with thirty-four signatories including philosopher John Dewey. Unlike the later ones, the first Manifesto talked of a new "religion", and referred to Humanism as a religious movement to transcend and replace previous religions based on allegations of supernatural revelation. The document outlines a fifteen-point belief system.

The second Manifesto was written in 1973 by Paul Kurtz and Edwin H. Wilson, and was intended to update and replace the previous one. It begins with a statement that the excesses of Nazism and World War II had made the first seem "far too optimistic", and indicated a more hardheaded and realistic approach in its seventeen-point statement, which was much longer and more elaborate than the previous version.

Humanist Manifesto III, a successor to the Humanist Manifesto of 1933, was published in 2003 by the AHA
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 24, 2013
Aside from the official Humanist Manifestos of the American Humanist Association, there have been other similar documents. "Humanist Manifesto" is a trademark of the AHA. Formulation of new statements in emulation of the three Humanist Manifestoes is encouraged, and examples follow.

A Secular Humanist Declaration was an argument for and statement of support for democratic secular humanism. The document was issued in 1980 by the Council for Democratic and Secular Humanism ("CODESH"), now the Council for Secular Humanism ("CSH")

Humanist Manifesto 2000: A Call for New Planetary Humanism is a book by Paul Kurtz published in 2000. It differs from the other three in that it is a full-length book rather than essay-length,

The Amsterdam Declaration 2002 is a statement of the fundamental principles of modern Humanism passed unanimously by the General Assembly of the International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) at the 50th anniversary World Humanist Congress in 2002.
JohnGee
1.9 / 5 (9) Jul 24, 2013
Wow, thanks for the informative posts! I'm assuming you forgot to inject them with your usual vile garbage, or maybe you are saving that for part 3.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 24, 2013
In engineering I've always been taught, any dumb engineer can make something complex, but a great engineer makes things simple.

I think a Jewish Carpenter 2000 years ago summed up morality as "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

He defined neighbor as everyone including your enemies.

and defined love as: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Christian morality, very simple, very direct, very unambiguous. Too bad few people follow Christian morality.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 24, 2013
Can someone define what no harm means to a secular humanist? Immediate harm? Possible harm? Probable harm?

So is secular humanist not telling a Homosexual that living the homosexual lifestyle is very unhealthy, doing harm?
So is secular humanists who not telling the dangers of free sex, doing harm?
So is secular humanists who not promoting stable traditional families, doing harm?
So is secular humanists who do not stand against abortion, doing harm?
So is a secular humanist who wants to get rid of "human weeds" being a good secular humanist or a bad secular humanist?
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 24, 2013
So is secular humanist not telling a Homosexual that living the homosexual lifestyle is very unhealthy, doing harm?
So is secular humanists who not telling the dangers of free sex, doing harm?
So is secular humanists who not promoting stable traditional families, doing harm?
So is secular humanists who do not stand against abortion, doing harm?
So is a secular humanist who wants to get rid of "human weeds" being a good secular humanist or a bad secular humanist?

What you are saying is you want to set up a giant bureaucracy to do nothing more than stop people from doing things, almost universally in private, that offend you. Selfish.

This is known as the "offense principle" and is the opposite of the harm principle. Stop trying to claim you are the opposite of what you are. It's offensive and I might have to get together with my atheist non-church goers and lobby the government to stop you.

Also, it helps when the "harm" in question isn't based on religious pseudoscience.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2013
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."

I wonder what Freethinking would suggest an intelligent person, who has weighed the evidence, and clearly understands that there is no god should do. Freethinking's whole system of morality just fell apart for someone like me. Freethinking cannot conceive of a system of morals that do not invoke god (who is imaginary). Other more free thinking folks understand that there can be morality without this mythical god. Recently Freethinking asked me what came before the big bang, and if something can come from nothing. I replied that I did not know - and then asked Free what came before God, and if something can come from nothing. Crickets chirping.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 24, 2013
SH's morals are not objective so whether they are from God or pulled out of dj's arse, they are not objective.
god (who is imaginary).

Mathematicians had to invent an imaginary number, sqrt(-1) to help them solve many previously unsolvable problems.
exp(i pi) + 1 =0. How convenient.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (13) Jul 24, 2013
JG, how hypocritical. So according to secular humanists it is ok not to tell someone their actions are harmful, furthermore to allow harmful actions to take place if the harm is also offensive? So this is your morality?

Then how arrogant to say that extremely intelligent people and scientists who weigh the evidence for God and accept that there is a God, that their belief is imaginary.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (15) Jul 24, 2013
Then how arrogant to say that extremely intelligent people and scientists who weigh the evidence for God and accept that there is a God, that their belief is imaginary
Your belief is imaginary because as I have shown you many times in the past, archeologists have been digging in the holy land for 100 years and have found conclusive evidence that none of the bible stories ever happened.

And so YOUR evidence must be hallucination. The same sort of perceptual distortion that hindus suffer when they pray to vishnu, and moslems with muhammud, and buddhists to buddha, and etc.

You are all afflicted. It causes you to lie to yourself and to the people around you. It causes you to believe in obvious lies only because they make you feel so good.

This activity is immoral.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 24, 2013
Secular humanists are hypocrites:
They say: We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation. ----- They deplore efforts to denigrate, yet denigrate those who believe in God. Also, IF there is evidence for God, they would refuse to look at it. Very closed minded.------
They say: We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance. ---yet they never speak out against the secular humanists who want to eliminate human weeds.-----
They say: We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.---Again, will they speak out against those that want to eliminate human weeds?----
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (14) Jul 24, 2013
I think a Jewish Carpenter 2000 years ago summed up morality as "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment
-And after that he said that whosoever did not believeth in him was evil and should be killed.

Am I paraphrasing? No. I am sure it is in there somewhere because you religionists have been using your books to justify exactly that ever since they were written. Which is why they are evil.
Secular humanists are hypocrites
But xians are liars.
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 24, 2013
How do you plan on funding the CBI (Christian Bureau of Investigation)? Do you plan on letting them in your bedroom voluntarily?

The Christian Taliban will stop at no lengths to impose their bronze age immoralities on the rest of society.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 24, 2013
Secular Humanists say: We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.---- but they insult religion at every turn, and they want to define the common good, ie. getting rid of human weeds, removal of religion, destruction of the traditional family unit.---

On and On they go, saying this and that, yet like Progressives you need to define each word they say. What do they mean by dignity? What do they define as moral?

Their The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles sounds good, but when read with an open and inquiring mind their principles contradict each other.

Christian morality is based on Love, which is very specifically defined. Secular Humanist morality is based on whatever is agreed upon, is dependent on the situation and time.
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 24, 2013
Christian morality is based on Love
And your sense of love is warped because you are a latent homosexual that spends every moment in fear of eternal damnation if you express that love. This is a common theme among Christian Jihadis and explains their support of big government.

The Christian Taliban won't stop until everyone is as tortured in society as they are in their own heads.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 24, 2013
JG what do Hezbollah Secular Humanists use to install their agenda's?

Hate crime laws, if you are forced to have your business promote homosexual lifestyle which is against your religion too bad. (lets see, printer being forced to print pro homosexual material, flower shop forced to provide flowers for homosexual wedding, cake shop forced...)

Speaking the truth is no defense against hate crime in Canada. So If I just say the truth about the homosexual lifestyle, I can be dragged before the secular humanist human rights tribunal.

legislation to prevent parents from exercising their parental rights to exclude their children from being exposed to things they deem unacceptable.

Then using Planned Parenthood to remove human weeds.

But hey, its moral to do these things if you are a Secular Humanist, it's for the common good as Secular Humanist elite have currently defined it.
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 24, 2013
FT, why do you want to destroy the freedoms generations of hard working Americans have fought to secure? If you want cameras in your bedroom, I'm sure North Korea has them for you.

The Christian Taliban needs to learn what being a Real American is all about.

legislation to prevent parents from exercising their parental rights to exclude their children from being exposed to things they deem unacceptable.
I'm sure your kids get the two-minutes hate every day Uncle Sam be damned!

I am in no way using homosexuality as a slur. I'm not criticizing you for being homosexual, i'm criticizing you for being afraid of your own nature and condemning others with the same predilections. It's very hypocritical of you. I hope someday you can accept your true self.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 24, 2013
GJ, you are a hypocrite when you say you are for Homosexuals, yet you use them as a slur....

But since you are a secular humanist doing no harm is relative. When it is convient you are pro-homosexual, but when it's for the common good to use homosexuality as a slur your morality allows you to use it. So once Christianity is wiped out, will your hatred of homosexuals come out and you persecute them as well.... Again for the common good.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2013
"You are all afflicted. It causes you to lie to yourself and to the people around you. It causes you to believe in obvious lies only because they make you feel so good.

This activity is immoral." - Otto

This is one of the primary failure of members of any faith. Self deceit is the ultimate deceit, and is well practiced among the faithful.

Even FreeTard's chosen name is based on self deceit, as his "free thinking" comes directly from the Corporate Propaganda industry.

Pathetic.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2013
"SH's morals are not objective so whether they are from God or pulled out of dj's arse, they are not objective." - RyggTard

All systems of morality must follow two rules.

First it must be internally consistent.

Second it must be generally acceptable to the class who's actions it limits.

Everything other requirement is simply personal preference.

SaulAlinsky
2 / 5 (8) Jul 24, 2013
Freetard is second only to Ryg in terms of fractal wrongness.
Fractal wrongness is the state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview.
Debating with a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of poor logic, and outright lies, that requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one. It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.
If you ever get embroiled in a discussion with a fractally wrong person on the Internet — in mailing lists, newsgroups, or forums — your best bet is to say your piece once and ignore any replies, thus saving yourself time.
VendicarE
1 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2013
"Sounds similar to the USSR constitution." - RyggTard

RyggTard works hard to find a commie under ever bed.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 24, 2013
The Hezbollah secular humanist progressives is what this country needs to fear. It is they who are trying to remove freedom of speech, freedom of religion, who is monitoring what is being said and to whom, who is monitoring what is being emailed. It is they who are trying to control what you drink, eat, think, and say. It is they who are trying to say how to raise children.

If you want to live the homosexual lifestyle you are more than free to do so. However love demands that I speak the truth saying the dangers of that lifestyle, and that there is hope to get out of that lifestyle if you choose. The problem with secular humanists is that love is something they cannot understand which is why it is not mentioned once in their statement of principles.

http://www.youtub...dKOfbC9c

djr
3 / 5 (2) Jul 24, 2013
"SH's morals are not objective"

That is correct Ryggy - and it says a lot about you that you do not understand that for the most part morals are highly subjective, and situational. Here let me show you.

'Thou shalt not kill' - That is very clear and objective right. Except in self defense, or if you are at war, or if killing one person would save many others, etc. So Ryggy - Yes - formulating your own moral code is much preferable to taking rules out of a fairy book.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (12) Jul 24, 2013
So djr, why is love not mentioned in the The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles? Is it because Secular Humanists don't believe in love, or that they don't believe love is important?

If you say secular humanists do believe in love, can you define what you call love is?

With Christianity, love is defined as actions, it is not defined as feeling or emotions.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 24, 2013
Hate crime laws, if you are forced to have your business promote homosexual lifestyle which is against your religion too bad.
Well those same laws force people to sell flowers to idiot religionists for easter celebrations, bar mitzvahs, funerals, wakes, irish weddings, and the like. You ought to be thankful for secular law which forbids discrimination of even the most evil and idiotic among us.

And no I dont mean irish people except when they are slaughtering each other over the question of whether god had a mother or not.
With Christianity, love is defined as actions
Xians define divine love as something which issues endlessly from their god except to unbelievers who are roasted for eternity just because they cant believe in a god as described in a book full of lies. The xian god is one that you must fear as well as love, sort of how your dog feels about you.

This sort of love is pathological. Sick. Demented. Monstrous. Foul. Evil.
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2013
Meanwhile here in the real world, love is an emotional state.

ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (15) Jul 24, 2013
Thou shalt not kill' - That is very clear and objective right

Actually it is 'thou shall not murder'.

But if your morals are subjective, how can they be scientifically based?
VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2013
"Actually it is 'thou shall not murder'. - RyggTard

Already the Fascists are re-writing their Bible for their planned campaigns of mass murder.

freethinking
1.9 / 5 (14) Jul 24, 2013
Otto, if you don't want to sell me flowers for a religious ceremony, I may be offended and I most likely would never use you shop again, BUT unlike Secular Humanist Progressives I won't force you to do something against your will.

So love is only a feeling to Secular humanist, nothing not even love is concrete with a secular humanist. Feeling come and go.... just like a secular humanists morals.

BTW, love is mentioned 615 times in the bible, good 856, evil 447, hate 188, fear 180 and for otto who likes taking things out of context: There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear.----- Since Secular Humanists don't know what true and perfect love is, could this be the reason they fear God?
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2013
The Christian God want's your love. It is the shortest path to your bank account.

Love is defined as an action as claimed by FreeTard, then giving him your money is the action he has in mind for you.

The Christian God is hungry. Send money.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2013
Ryggy - "But if your morals are subjective, how can they be scientifically based?"

Who said they were? I have simply said that it is possible to have a moral code that does not invoke god. I stand by that assertion. I also assert that it will of course have a high degree of subjectivity. See the above 'thou shalt not kill' example.

Here is a possible example -

Be nice to each other - and treat others as you would want them to treat you.
Leave the world a better place than you found it.
Take responsibility for all of your decisions.
VendicarE
2 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2013
As RyggTard demonstrates with almost every post, he is incapable of taking responsibility for the continual failure of his own ideology.

With Conservatives, their failure is always someone else's fault.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2013
So djr, why is love not mentioned in the The Affirmations of Humanism

Free - not playing your game any more. Answer the questions I asked you.
VendicarE
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2013
Isn't it interesting that FreeTard, RyggTard and the other Conservative Tards here virtually never answer any of the questions put to them.

Doing so would generally show that their ideology is a fraud, and that their support of it is based on either idiocy or dishonesty or both.

VendicarE
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2013
For example, RyggTard has continues to refuse to respond to Faux News covering up the death threat issued against a New York Reporter by TeaPublican candidate Carl Paladino during the last election.

Here is a link to some coverage of the death threat and the cover up by Faux News.

http://www.youtub...I4JisF1w
djr
3 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2013
"could this be the reason they fear God?" Guess what Free? I don't fear God, or Allah, or Shiva, or Krishna - do I need to go on? You guys really have a hard time understanding that there is life beyond your silly book don't you?
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 25, 2013
I finally understand why Secular Humanists hate so much. It is because they don't understand what true love is. If you can't understand true love you are left with hate. If you can understand love, then you can go further and understand Hesed love.

Michael Card gives a great description in the following link http://www.sbts.e...-part-1/ If you go to minute 18 to minute 22 you will get a good definition of what Hesed love is all about.

I did find the theme song for Progressive Secular Humanists: https://www.youtu...NiYHOTHA
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 25, 2013
life beyond your silly book don't you?

Even if atheists don't believe in God, the Bible is a source of history and literature.
Schools still teach the Illiad and Odyssey. Is that a silly book?
Supposedly dk agrees wight most of the ten commandments and even one Jesus's commandments.
Anti-theists like dj are dishonest in their claim they desire reason. Rejecting as silly a collection of books that have inspired millions is quite irrational.
Does dj reject out of hand all of English literature as it is all fiction or not real?
dj condemns Christian parents for not wanting their children to read Harry Potter, but HP is wizard that practices magic. Does dj believe in magic?
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 25, 2013
the Bible is a source of history
According to what compelling evidence?
Rejecting as silly a collection of books that have inspired millions is quite irrational.
How do you feel about the Quran? The Bhagavad Gita?
Does dj believe in magic?
I'd say almost certainly he doesn't, but you certainly do. Why would you pose such a hypocritical question? Rising from the dead is a pretty neat magic trick.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (12) Jul 25, 2013
Gee, like dj,must see no value in any literature.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 25, 2013
Other words missing from the Humanist Manifesto, Truth and Prove.

None of the Humanist Manifesto's speak about truth, or love or prove.

Why does the Humanist Manifesto not ask to be proved? They make pronouncements and we are just to accept the pronouncements as fact. To me that's Very closed minded. As Christians we are commanded to PROVE ALL Things. BUT we don't need to worry, these pronouncements, given as facts, "evolve" over time depending on the situation.

Since the secular humanists manifestos doesn't speak about love, truth, and proving statements, could that be why, as evidenced by the secular humanists on this board, that humanists are so hateful to those that challenge their beliefs?
djr
3 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2013
"I finally understand why Secular Humanists hate so much"

Do you also wonder why religionists hate so much? Or (like Ryggy) are you very selective in the things you see in the world? Look across your world - see the Sunnis and the Shias slaughtering each other. Look at India - see the Moslems, and the Christians, and the Hindu's killing, and torturing, and hating each other. Just look at how much Ryggy hates the Moslems. Look at the Jews, and the Palestinians committing atrocities. Look at the Taliban - throwing acid in the face of women who dared show and ankle. And no - it is not just the 'other' religions. The Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland have be slaughtering each other for generations. And yes - a great deal of this goes back to colonial and imperial government policies - I have some awareness of the historical roots - I am just pointing out your hypocrisy in only thinking that secular humanists hate.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (15) Jul 25, 2013
And don't forget the atheist/socialists who hate Jews, Christians and anyone else who believes in a human individual's INHERENT right to life, liberty and property.
MissPiggy
1.4 / 5 (9) Jul 25, 2013
Report the above hatespeech
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2013
Ryggy - as usual you have no clue what you are talking about - and advertise to the world your total ignorance. Note - I do not consider myself a 'secular humanist'. I am an independent atheist - this means I do not believe in god, and I think for myself. That said - In reference to your above stupidity - please read this quote.

" We are for the defense of basic human rights, including the right to protect life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Which is taken from this secular humanist web site. http://www.secula...laration

(section 3. on 'The ideal of Freedom')

I do not hate Jews, or Christians. I have told you before - I have many good friends who are religionists. I do hate ignorance - you demonstrate it repeatedly. Perhaps you could take a year of off - say nothing - and do some deep introspection.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 25, 2013
We are for the defense of basic human rights, including the right to protect life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

But later the SH manifesto demands access to health care. How can this be accommodated without violation property rights?
A right for all cannot violate the rights of anyone.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 25, 2013
Otto, if you don't want to sell me flowers for a religious ceremony, I may be offended and I most likely would never use you shop again, BUT unlike Secular Humanist Progressives I won't force you to do something against your will
But the govt WILL because the LAW says so. Secular law applies to everybody equally. Religious law invariably favors believers.

This is why secular law is GOOD and religion-based law is BAD.
There is no fear in love.
The bible says love god or go to hell. It THREATENS unbelievers with eternal torture. This IS NOT love you imbecile. This is something to be despised.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 25, 2013
But if your morals are subjective, how can they be scientifically based?
Is the current xian stance on rejecting slavery, refraining from stoning insolent children and adulterers, and discouraging self-castration - despite what the bible condones and REQUIRES - subjective as well? Of COURSE it is.

These things have been written out of secular law but they still remain in your book. And so we can assume that the current popular abstention is only temporary. In most areas.

They do still stone and burn witches in some parts of the world because the word of god demands it. Is it naive to assume that this practice will never return in the west? Yes. Because god is pretty adamant about it. You all are just itching to resume stoning gays arent you?
djr
4 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2013
But later the SH manifesto demands access to health care. How can this be accommodated without violation property rights?

Every other advanced country in the world has universal health care. Obviously universal health care is not contradictory to a system of morals. You may not personally agree with universal health care - but again you miss the point - a system of morals is possible without invoking god. You always want to delve into details - without understanding the main point being outlined. I believe that the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness is far easier - if you are not worrying about dying of cancer - because you cannot afford the treatment. I believe that a country is far more moral - when it provides universal health care for its citizens.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (12) Jul 25, 2013
Every other advanced country in the world has universal health care. Obviously universal health care is not contradictory to a system of morals.


Morality is by majority vote?
Of course a system of morals is possible without God, but then you get NAZI Germany, DPRK, Cuba, France, ....
provides universal health care for its citizens.

But it must violate the inherent property rights of its citizens to do so.
In dj's morality by majority, there can be NO rights to life, liberty or property. And this has been the 'morality' in most 'progressive'/socialist states.
freethinking
2 / 5 (12) Jul 25, 2013
Rygg, the problem with Progressive Secular Humanist and Atheists is that morality needs to be defined, and each word they use to define morality needs to be defined. It's a moving goal post, as a famous Progressive once said, it depends on what the meaning of is is. http://www.youtub...T-l-_3y0

They use the term harm, but never state what type of harm they are talking about.
They use the term equality, but what does equality mean to them?

Again, Christian morality is Loving God, Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Neighbor is defined as everyone including your enemies.
Love is defined as: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

Progressives use a lot of words that sound good, but are meaningless. Humanist Morality Manifesto (1, 2 or 3) is meaningless, changing, contradicting, jumble of words.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 25, 2013
If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate. If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, "Jump," and it jumps, but I don't love, I'm nothing. If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't love, I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love.

Love never gives up. Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn't want what it doesn't have. Love doesn't strut,
Doesn't have a swelled head, Doesn't force itself on others,
Isn't always "me first," Doesn't fly off the handle,
Doesn't keep score of the sins of others, Doesn't revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth, Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always, always looks for the best,
Never looks back, But keeps going to the end.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (12) Jul 25, 2013
Christian morality is about Love:
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

Otto, any Christian who is not acting in a loving manner, is not following what God commands them to do.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (14) Jul 25, 2013
Again, Christian morality is Loving God, Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Neighbor is defined as everyone including your enemies
Absolutely. You have a god who does the dirty work for you while you sit there smug in the knowledge that they will roast.

More feel-good promises from the god of opiates.

"17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for GODS WRATH, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord." rom12

READ IT. It would not work unless you were assured you had a thug god on your side. Paybacks a bitch says the god of love.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 25, 2013
"Barry was being raised in Hawaii by his white grandparents. It was as a child of privilege that Barry attended Punahou, and before that, he was living in Indonesia among that nation's elite. Maybe one reason the president's talk about race Friday sounded so embarrassing was that it was artificial, and besides, Americans have heard it all before. They heard it from that poor little boy from Arkansas, Bill Clinton. Now they hear it from poor Barack Obama. Both attended elite schools, graduated from Ivy League universities, and entered the American establishment. My guess is that knowledgeable Americans know that Obama is a creature of his own imagination, aided and abetted by what might be called the liberal imagination"
"from Dr. Ben Carson, comes the definitive response to Obama's comments last week. "Tone down the rhetoric," says Carson, "and recognize that we the people are not each other's enemies..."
Emmett Tyrrell
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 25, 2013
"Right now Obama exists in only one stripe of the race rainbow. He only talks to the Sharptons, but never the Steeles. Has he ever thought of sitting down and talking to Shelby Steele, or Thomas Sowell, or Larry Elder, or Ben Carson, or even Allen West?"
"As long as Obama relies on the Holders and the Reverend Al's of the world for perspective, nothing will change. Cities like Detroit will continue to crumble, and prisons will become the closest to communities many young blacks have."
http://www.breitb...OF-FACTS
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2013
Morality is by majority vote?

Ryggy - the whole system of morals is way too big for a forum like this. The U.S. has morals by a bunch of old white guys getting in a room - and deciding that black people have no rights, and only old white men who own land have the right to vote. Also - as previously pointed out - your racism, and your willingness to participate in disgusting character assasination of the president using very slimy tactics totally precludes you from having anything to say on the subject. Maybe you should think about why others (misspiggy) for example recognize that you express hate speach. Then you want to lecture others about morals.
Howhot
3 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2013
Love never gives up. Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn't want what it doesn't have. Love doesn't strut,
Doesn't have a swelled head, Doesn't force itself on others,
Isn't always "me first," Doesn't fly off the handle,
Doesn't keep score of the sins of others, Doesn't revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth, Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always, always looks for the best,
Never looks back, But keeps going to the end.


You are so full of shit. You don't believe a single piece of that, and if you do, you have been trained like a stupid monkey to do toss fluffy BS if you feel you need to. Besides, I know you need to work on the swelled head part.

To me the issue isn't the religion, its the foundation of the religion. Does it have a sound logical basis for one to put faith into. Only Mr. Spock from Startrek has a handle on that. Until then do you trust your faith to be correct? In other words where is the logic?

Howhot
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2013
"Right now Obama exists in only one stripe of the race rainbow. He only talks to the Sharptons, but never the Steeles. Has he ever thought of sitting down and talking to Shelby Steele, or Thomas Sowell, or Larry Elder, or Ben Carson, or even Allen West?"
"As long as Obama relies on the Holders and the Reverend Al's of the world for perspective, nothing will change. Cities like Detroit will continue to crumble, and prisons will become the closest to communities many young blacks have."


R2, since you quote that commentary without a disclaimer comment, I think everyone reading this can assume you own that quote; and given the quotations context; it's a very racist. It insults me and I'm sure many others.
djr
1 / 5 (1) Jul 25, 2013
And Ryggy cuts and pastes some more right wing rants - and continues to expose Ryggy's need to race bait. Yeah - we should listen to Ryggy on the subject of morals.
Howhot
1 / 5 (1) Jul 26, 2013
he problem with Progressive Secular Humanist and Atheists is that morality needs to be defined, and each word they use to define morality needs to be defined. It's a moving goal post, as a famous Progressive once said, it depends on what the meaning of is is.

You know, if that wasn't so laughably tilted, I think you just called out every Progressive as being an immoral atheist. You seem to ignore all of the Devil worshipers. They deserve a fare shake in this democracy too. Shee. if an atheist or non-believer deserves your scorn, then surly a Devil worshiper deserves more!

How about all of those Devil worshiping Obama supporters that destroyed Detroit, and who sucks on the tit of welfare? Isn't Devil worshiping a tax exempt religion? What say you conservatards about that religious loop hole?

There is no need to defend yourself, just admit your wrong and listen closely to what BS propaganda the blowvalves on AM radio preach. Then look at the US condition.
JohnGee
1.9 / 5 (9) Jul 26, 2013
This whole secular humanist argument is moronic. Every couple of weeks FreepTwink and Rygtard think they've stumbled upon ~Progressive Kryptonite~ and flood the comments section with nonsense for Jesus and von Mises!

1. There are no absolute morals. Some principles will have strong agreement among disparate societies virtually always; however, there will always be exceptions. All morals are derived from human thought and are only as good as the person that thought them up.

2. Rights are not inherent. They don't come from a god as it likely doesn't exist or doesn't intervene in our affairs. You can either view the state as restricting or granting rights; however, it is functionally the same. The state is the determining factor in either case.

There's your strawman. Have fun.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (11) Jul 26, 2013
JG, I agree with you that Progressives do not believe in absolute morals and that Rights are not inherent.

Which is why Progressives accept, promote, encourage, lying, cheating, stealing if it promotes the cause of Progressivism. It is also why Progressives have no issues taking away religious, parental, free speech, rights.

We agree, since progressives do not believe absolute morals, if you trust a Progressive, you trust someone without fixed morals.
kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (8) Jul 26, 2013
We agree, since progressives do not believe absolute morals, if you trust a Progressive, you trust someone without fixed morals.
Fixed to what? Your ignorance? That would be hell on Earth. The only thing fixed with you are the number of brain cells you kill with every post
JohnGee
1 / 5 (6) Jul 26, 2013
Which is why Progressives accept, promote, encourage, lying, cheating, stealing if it promotes the cause of Progressivism. It is also why Progressives have no issues taking away religious, parental, free speech, rights.
The only people here doing any of that are you and Rygtard. You lie incessantly about every little thing that offends you, claim other people do it and not you, then wish to deny them rights you claim they are taking from you.

Unlike you, I won't say EVERYONE that thinks like you is the same, because I have the cognitive abilities required to model reality with a dash of nuance. You're black and white worldview is the symptom of a simple mind.
JohnGee
1 / 5 (7) Jul 26, 2013
How about criminalizing doctors who want to ban a discipline method that reduces the chance of verbal abuse.

http://medicalxpr...ids.html
It only took you ONE post after your last in this topic to do exactly what I said you do. You are calling on eliminating the Free Speech rights of doctors that disagree with you.

Why should anyone respect your rights if you respect no one elses? You are a social communist. You think everyone should be treated equal socially regardless of how awful their opinions are. You are failing the "good human test" and want the professor to grade on a curve.

Spanking done properly quickly ends many issues before they escalate causing parents to loose control.
Is that why you're sexuality is so tortured? Mommy hit you for touching yourself in public and now you hate women?
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (11) Jul 26, 2013
The U.S. has morals by a bunch of old white guys getting in a room - and deciding that black people have no rights, and only old white men who own land have the right to vote


The document they produced wasn't perfect and reflected the accepted standards of the day. They HAD to compromise on slavery or there would not be a Constitution. But included was a Bill of Rights and a defined process to amend the document, by a super majority vote.
It was Christian activists in Great Britain that finally ended slavery for most of the world in 1809 and the UK enforced these laws around the world.
What dj implied is morality should be determined by a simple majority and should be changed as the majority opinion changes.
The SHs claim to support science. Science demands objective standards, measures and rules to proceed, except when these scientists begin discussing what humans value. Then, all standards established over 10s of thousands of years by humans are immaterial. The SH's know bes
JohnGee
1 / 5 (6) Jul 26, 2013
The document they produced wasn't perfect and reflected the accepted standards of the day.
So you are saying we don't share the same morals as the founding fathers? Interesting. You just admitted something you never would have in straightforward, honest language.

It was Christian activists... that finally ended slavery...
And Christians established slavery in the Western hemisphere. It was quite nice of them to fix their previous mistake; I will admit.

What dj implied is morality should be determined by a simple majority and should be changed as the majority opinion changes.
You fail to realize just a few sentences above you lauded the founders for putting the SAME principle into the Constitution. From your argument, a super majority vs. a simple majority doesn't make much difference. Obviously, you weren't trying to say it's okay for a super majority but not a simple majority, but I'm sure you'll claim that's what you meant all along.
JohnGee
1 / 5 (6) Jul 26, 2013
Then, all standards established over 10s of thousands of years by humans are immaterial.
Standards like what? Exposure? Ius primae noctis? Inquisitions? Human sacrifice? Feudalism?

I'm assuming you are talking about Traditional Marriage™? Dress it up all you want, but it is your implied goal to deny the rights of others. Christians didn't invent marriage and the bible doesn't define it for everyone.

The SH's know best
You are projecting. For all your railing against social engineering, you are one of the very few people on here that comes across in his arguments as actually wanting to engineer society. It is so so obvious to anyone but you. It's like trying to convince someone that he hates himself. Even if it is true, the mind just is not equipped to deal with that. You will dance around the subject and redefine every word. "I hate my life, not myself." Well, you are your life so there really isn't any difference.
JohnGee
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 26, 2013
What dj implied is morality should be determined by a simple majority and should be changed as the majority opinion changes.
Just to expound on this a little more:

1. No one said morals should be up for a vote. This is just another one of your strawmen.

2. It's obvious your problem with voting on morals is with the voting itself, not the threshold for success. So your impeding simple vs. super majority argument is moot. Don't try it.

3. You laud the founders for doing exactly what you falsely accused djr of. To be clear, in reference to slavery you mentioned the constitution wasn't perfect and "reflected the accepted standards of the day." You say this is okay because the founders included an amendment process. In doing so, you admit that American morals have changed over the last two centuries and you laud the amendment process (voting) for allowing those changes.

JohnGee
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 26, 2013
"Many southern Christians felt that slavery, in one Baptist minister's words, "stands as an institution of God." Here's why."
http://www.christ...324.html

"John C. Calhoun said, "Never before has the black race of Central Africa, from the dawn of history to the present day, attained a condition so civilized and so improved, not only physically, but morally and intellectually."

"James Thornwell, a minister, wrote in 1860, 'The parties in this conflict are not merely Abolitionists and slaveholders, they are Atheists, Socialists, Communists, Red Republicans, Jacobins on the one side and the friends of order and regulated freedom on the other.' "
http://www.ushist.../27f.asp
I knew you were old, but I didn't know you were THAT old.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 26, 2013
dj asserted that since most developed countries have nationalized there health care system, it is a good and moral thing for the state to decide who will live and who will die.

Of course the US Constitution was written assuming a minimum common morality based upon the Ten Commandments.The Bill of Rights ostensibly applied to all, equally.

Actually the morals of the US haven't changed that much. There was significant opposition to slavery at the time on moral grounds. Morals were compromised to create the govt and morals continue to be compromised by govts to stay in power.
And the socialists here want morals to be defined by the state.
JohnGee
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 26, 2013
dj asserted that since most developed countries have nationalized there health care system, it is a good and moral thing for the state to decide who will live and who will die.
It's a good thing because it's a good thing. It's objectively better as comparing the US to an similarly developed country will show. Taxes aren't theft. Death panels don't exist.
Of course the US Constitution was written assuming a minimum common morality based upon the Ten Commandments.The Bill of Rights ostensibly applied to all, equally.
I don't recall the bible being mentioned anywhere in the Federalist Papers, but slavery condoned in the 10 commandments so you may have a point :-)
Actually the morals of the US haven't changed that much. There was significant opposition to slavery at the time on moral grounds.
Abolishing slavery isn't a significant change in morals? LOL!
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 26, 2013
Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Col 3:22
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."

Eph 6:5
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves."
JohnGee
2 / 5 (8) Jul 26, 2013
"If slavery be a sin, it is not yours. It does not rest on your action for its origin, on your consent for its existence. It is a common law right to property in the service of man; its origin was Divine decree."--Rygges... I mean Jefferson Davis

"African slavery, as it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing."

"My own convictions as to negro slavery are strong. It has its evils and abuses...We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude...You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be."

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts."
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (12) Jul 26, 2013
Christian morality of Love, sorta makes slavery difficult. Speaking the truth in love, anyone who ever owned a slave wasn't acting in a christian manner to that slave.

However, since according to Progressive Humanists, morality can change at any time, humanists 300 years ago would have said slavery was good, humanist of today say slavery is bad now, but humanists in the future can say it is good to own a slave.

So what about abortion? How is killing a child doing no harm?

Also in the future, how do we know that secular humanists will not espouse the killing of defective humans? In the 1930's Secular humanist saw nothing wrong with the elimination of human weeds. Any secular humanists want to say the elimination of human weed philosophy is evil, and the person who said it was going against secular humanist philosophy?
JohnGee
1.7 / 5 (6) Jul 26, 2013
Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Col 3:22
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."

Eph 6:5
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves."
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 26, 2013
OK JG, why were slave commanded to be excellent to their masters in the bible? Any clue?

Hint.......could it be about the slave Loving.....

OK, I forgot, Secular Humanist Atheists know nothing about Love and care for no one else but themselves.

The slaves were told Love their masters in order to win them to Christ. The slaves were told to do everything they could so that they could save their master. But slaves were also told that if they could win their freedom, they should do so.

It goes in the same vein as, Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

Did you view the video about Hesed Love from Michael Card? Do you even understand what love is?
JohnGee
2.1 / 5 (7) Jul 26, 2013
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

The Bible condones slavery; it doesn't merely mention it.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (12) Jul 26, 2013
gj: http://www.equip....slavery/

Now answer my questions.....
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (13) Jul 26, 2013
There are no absolute morals
Tabula rasa is dead. We now know that behavior is the result of natural selection, and that morality is derived from the specific needs of mating, raising and protecting young, and interacting within the tribe.

"There can be no doubt that a tribe including many members who, from possessing in a high degree the spirit of patriotism, fidelity, obedience, courage, and sympathy, were always ready to give aid to each other and to sacrifice themselves for the common good, would be victorious over most other tribes; and this would be natural selection" -Darwin

""Such conflict of groups could not fail to operate effectively in developing the moral nature of man; those communities in which this higher morality was developed would triumph over and exterminate those which had not attained it in equal degree." -McDougall

Internal altruism with external animosity. The trick is to extend the tribal identity beyond the tribe. Religion is one obsolete method.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2013
Now answer my questions.....

And none to mine - funny how that works.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2013
Also in the future, how do we know that secular humanists will not espouse the killing of defective humans?

I guess we don't - but then we don't know that the religionists wont do that either. If you took the time to read any of the material referenced on secular humanism - you would know that doing such a thing would be totally counter to what they espouse - but it is easier to ignore evidence, and make up your own nonsense.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 26, 2013
Christian morality of Love, sorta makes slavery difficult.
No the xian ethic IS the slave/master relationship, the edict that you both love and fear the one you have to serve. The bible ethic REQUIRES slavery, which is why it was so hard to eradicate. Xians had a holy book which condoned it.
OK JG, why were slave commanded to be excellent to their masters in the bible?
And why didnt your lovegod universally CONDEMN slavery? Is slavery intrinsic in his definition of love? Of course it is.

You can only afford to love your enemies if you are certain they are going to hell.
I guess we don't - but then we don't know that the religionists wont do that either.
The OT describes a continual process of tempting the people and culling all who cannot conform, leaving the remnants. Wheat from chaff.

This is eugenics, domestication, husbandry. Even moses and aaron were not allowed into the holyland because they wouldnt obey orders.
djr
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2013
dj asserted that since most developed countries have nationalized there health care system, it is a good and moral thing for the state to decide who will live and who will die.

As opposed to those decisions being made by who has the most money. I guess you think that this is what happens under the American socialist health care system (Medicare) - and if you ask Americans if they would like to keep their medicare - you will get a resounding yes. It is also funny that people live longer in every country that has universal health care - than they do here in the U.S. So who has the more moral system? http://www.common.../07/15-4
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 26, 2013
GJ, Eps 6.... in context slaps slave owners
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

So slave masters, (here is the big slap down) treat your slaves in the same way they are treating you. Obey your slaves with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart. Serve your slave wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord,

How can a slave owner do that, they can't and that's the point.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (13) Jul 26, 2013
GJ, Eps 6.... in context slaps slave owners...How can a slave owner do that, they can't and that's the point.
Well this is easy. Ephesians most likely is a forgery.

"most critical scholars think it improbable that Paul authored Ephesians at all. Among this group are Allan, Beare, Brandon, Bultmann, Conzelmann, Dibelius, Goodspeed, Kilsemann, J. Knox, W.L. Knox, Kümmel, K and S Lake, Marxsen, Masson, Mitton, Moffatt, Nineham, Pokorny, Schweizer, and J. Weiss."
http://en.wikiped...phesians

-Looks like somebody thought to include a disclaimer after the fact. The fake epistles are notorious for this. Because as JG shows, the bible is pretty unequivocal in supporting the idea that people should be able to OWN each other.
ryggesogn2
2.5 / 5 (14) Jul 26, 2013
Christians established slavery in the Western hemisphere.

Native Americans practiced slavery and human sacrifice before Western Civilization arrived.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (12) Jul 26, 2013
Otto and your Jesus seminar's. For anyone who is not familiar with the Jesus Seminars, it's a group of humanists, who cast lots and vote on what they think is or isn't true in the Bible. Anything Jesus says that doesn't match what they think he should have said is ruled a forgery. Anything that they don't agree with is ruled a forgery....

So Otto, is getting rid of "human weeds", as espoused by famous and popular Secular humanists wrong? And which humanist manifesto are you living by today, 1,2, or 3.
Why do secular humanist support the killing of undesirable or unwanted children?

freethinking
1.7 / 5 (12) Jul 26, 2013
For those that are interested in the Authorship of Ephesians and why Otto is wrong again about relying on Jesus Seminar or Wikipedia for his information: http://www.tekton...uth.html
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 26, 2013

"'We're Racist' Sign Was A Liberal Hoax. Media Won't Retract Story"
http://www.reagan...oax.html
When there is no racism, 'liberals' try to create it.
Recall Dan Rather? "Fake, but true"?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (13) Jul 26, 2013
Otto and your Jesus seminar's. For anyone who is not familiar with the Jesus Seminars, it's a group of humanists...Anything that they don't agree with is ruled a forgery....
None of those people in the list are in your jebus seminars. They form a scholarly consensus. The bible is full of obvious forgeries, adulterations, plagerism, poltical screed, and graffiti. And lies.

But thats all ok since god wrote it right?
So Otto, is getting rid of "human weeds", as espoused by famous and popular Secular humanists wrong?
I dont know is it wrong to kill 70,000 people just because david took a census? Of course, says the religionist, he IS god isnt he??
And which humanist manifesto are you living by today, 1,2, or 3.
Why do secular humanist support the killing of undesirable or unwanted children?
Why do religionists force women to conceive cannon fodder until it kills them?

And why does god say its ok to dash canaanite babies against rocks?
djr
3 / 5 (4) Jul 27, 2013
"When there is no racism, 'liberals' try to create it."

But your comment was racist - so stop trying to do yoga pretzels to slurr the president - and making false accusations using discredited criminals who are just trying to get attention. Sometimes racism really is racism.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 27, 2013
Restating the fact that BHOs father was a socialist from Kenya is racist to a 'liberal'. His step father from Indonesia was a socialist and his mentor in HI was as socialist, too.
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 27, 2013
Now that Senator Ted Cruz may be a candidate for president, the 'liberal' media are questioning his place of birth, Canada, to a US citizen mother and Cuban exile father.
Cruz graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law and was "off the charts brilliant" by Prof. Alan Dershowitz.
If a 'liberal' is critical of Cruz then by dj's illogic, he must be racist.
djr
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 27, 2013
Restating the fact that BHOs father was a socialist from Kenya is racist to a 'liberal'.

Well - it is actually racist to anyone who is paying attention - when the fact that he is from Kenya has no bearing on the discussion at hand - so your only motivation is to slur the President by associating him with Kenya. Just like you tried to slur the president by linking to a know criminal and con artist who accused the President of having oral sex. Just like you stated that he went to a 'Moslem' school. If it walks like a duck Ryggy......
ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 27, 2013
Why is it a slur for BHOs father to be from Kenya? Your words, not mine.
But its not a slur in dj's world to have a family history, mother, father, step father, mentors who are socialists?
djr
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 27, 2013
Why is it a slur for BHOs father to be from Kenya?

Because the fact that his father is from Kenya had no relevance to the conversation at hand - so the only possible motive could have been that you were trying to slur the President - because in YOUR mind, drawing attention to his African roots was a way of rallying support for you anti Obama agenda. Lines up with lying about his going to a Moslem school, and referencing a discredited criminal who lied about having oral sex with the President. Stop fighting it Ryggy - just embrace your inner racist - you are in good company with the Tea Party.
djr
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 27, 2013
But its not a slur in dj's world to have a family history, mother, father, step father, mentors who are socialists?

No it is not. I do not judge a person by the actions of other people - only by their own actions. Self responsibility - It is kind of a libertarian thing - you would not understand. Besides - there are many very honorable people who have an honestly held belief in socialist principles - I can respect their honestly held beliefs - you are not capable of such enlightened thinking - too self centered.
JohnGee
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 27, 2013
there are many very honorable people who have an honestly held belief in socialist principles
Ryg even likes to quote them and lie about their stated politics. Albert Einstein comes to mind.

More bible pro-slavery quotes:
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
JohnGee
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 27, 2013
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Here's some of that "Christian love" Freep keeps talking about:
"But let me not be understood as admitting, even by implication, that the existing relations between the two races in the slaveholding States is an evil:–far otherwise; I hold it to be a good, as it has thus far proved itself to be to both, and will continue to prove so if not disturbed by the fell spirit of abolition. I appeal to facts. Never before has the black race of Central Africa, from the dawn of history to the present day, attained a condition so civilized and so improved, not only physically, but morally and intellectually." John C. Calhoun

Christians only want to enslave people because they love them! You obviously don't understand love!
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (14) Jul 27, 2013
there are many very honorable people who have an honestly held belief in socialist principles - I can respect their honestly held beliefs - you are not capable of such enlightened thinking - too self centered.


dj considers armed robbery and the murder of millions, honorable. That's what happens when one has no morals.

BTW, 'liberals' are ALWAYS making excuses for the actions of others. BHO's learned his socialism from his family, mentors and 'education'.
And I AM judging BHO by HIS actions and the actions of his fellow travelers.
JohnGee
2.1 / 5 (7) Jul 27, 2013
That's what happens when one has no morals.
Actually, opposing universal healthcare is what happens when one has no morals.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (14) Jul 27, 2013
That's what happens when one has no morals.
Actually, opposing universal healthcare is what happens when one has no morals.

Govt run health care is wrong on two levels.
One is the wealth plundered to pay for it (or the slavery of the health care workers if not paid), and two, the poor quality of care as demonstrated by the UKs NHS with patients starving to death in hospital.
"The blunders, neglect and abuse that left up to 1,200 patients dead at Stafford Hospital should have been met with strong ­disciplinary action against those responsible
Yet not one person was fired over the shameful four-year period"

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror...aJ0Yth51
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

But this occurs for all govt: high cost, poor performance.
djr
2 / 5 (4) Jul 28, 2013
"And I AM judging BHO by HIS actions and the actions of his fellow travelers."

You are judging President Obama by associating him with others - that is the behavior of someone with a very poor ability to