Orion's hidden fiery ribbon

May 15, 2013
In this image, the submillimetre-wavelength glow of the dust clouds is overlaid on a view of the region in the more familiar visible light, from the Digitized Sky Survey 2. The large bright cloud in the upper right of the image is the well-known Orion Nebula, also called Messier 42. Credit: ESO/Digitized Sky Survey 2

(Phys.org) —This dramatic new image of cosmic clouds in the constellation of Orion reveals what seems to be a fiery ribbon in the sky. This orange glow represents faint light coming from grains of cold interstellar dust, at wavelengths too long for human eyes to see. It was observed by the ESO-operated Atacama Pathfinder Experiment (APEX) in Chile.

Clouds of gas and interstellar dust are the raw materials from which stars are made. But these tiny dust grains block our view of what lies within and behind the clouds—at least at —making it difficult to observe the processes of star formation.

This is why astronomers need to use instruments that are able to see at other . At , rather than blocking light, the dust grains shine due to their temperatures of a few tens of degrees above absolute zero. The APEX telescope with its submillimetre- wavelength camera LABOCA, located at an altitude of 5000 metres above sea level on the Chajnantor Plateau in the Chilean Andes, is the ideal tool for this kind of observation.

This spectacular new picture shows just a part of a bigger complex called the Orion Molecular Cloud, in the (The Hunter). A rich melting pot of bright nebulae, hot young stars and cold dust clouds, this region is hundreds of light-years across and located about 1350 light-years from us. The submillimetre-wavelength glow arising from the cold dust clouds is seen in orange in this image and is overlaid on a view of the region taken in the more familiar visible light.

The large bright cloud in the upper right of the image is the well-known , also called Messier 42. It is readily visible to the naked eye as the slightly fuzzy middle "star" in the sword of Orion. The Orion Nebula is the brightest part of a huge where new stars are being born, and is the closest site of massive star formation to Earth.

The dust clouds form beautiful filaments, sheets, and bubbles as a result of processes including gravitational collapse and the effects of stellar winds. These winds are streams of gas ejected from the atmospheres of stars, which are powerful enough to shape the surrounding clouds into the convoluted forms seen here.

Astronomers have used these and other data from APEX along with images from ESA's Herschel Space Observatory, to search the region of Orion for protostars—an early stage of star formation. They have so far been able to identify 15 objects that appeared much brighter at longer wavelengths than at shorter wavelengths. These newly discovered rare objects are probably among the youngest protostars ever found, bringing astronomers closer to witnessing the moment when a star begins to form.

Explore further: Despite extensive analysis, Fermi bubbles defy explanation

More information: Research paper: http://dx.doi.org/10.1088/0004-637X/767/1/36 (PDF)

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cantdrive85
1.7 / 5 (11) May 15, 2013
The dust clouds form beautiful filaments, sheets, and bubbles as a result of processes including gravitational collapse and the effects of stellar winds. These winds are streams of gas ejected from the atmospheres of stars, which are powerful enough to shape the surrounding clouds into the convoluted forms seen here.


That's what plasma does, it forms filaments, sheets, and cells and it has little or nothing to do with gravity. EM forces drive the behavior of plasma, gravity is largely inconsequential in the mechanisms of plasma.
Fleetfoot
5 / 5 (4) May 15, 2013
That's what plasma does, it forms filaments, sheets, and cells ...


Gravity does exactly the same. It is obvious that the dominant process here is simply the momentum of the ejected material, there is no evidence for plasma effects.
cantdrive85
1.4 / 5 (10) May 15, 2013
That's what plasma does, it forms filaments, sheets, and cells ...


Gravity does exactly the same. It is obvious that the dominant process here is simply the momentum of the ejected material, there is no evidence for plasma effects.

Only if the blinders are retained. Blinders, check!
Fleetfoot
5 / 5 (4) May 15, 2013
That's what plasma does, it forms filaments, sheets, and cells ...


Gravity does exactly the same. It is obvious that the dominant process here is simply the momentum of the ejected material, there is no evidence for plasma effects.

Only if the blinders are retained. Blinders, check!


Or as you might say, "All hail the great god plasma.".

Science doesn't work on beliefs, produce real evidence and people will listen.
cantdrive85
1.4 / 5 (10) May 15, 2013
Science doesn't work on beliefs, produce real evidence and people will listen.


LOL, I have linked to peer-reviewed papers repeatedly, only to be met with the comment that "this plasma isn't really plasma, it's hot gas that can be explained with ideal gas laws".

"Students using astrophysical textbooks remain essentially ignorant of even the existence of plasma concepts, despite the fact that some of them have been known for half a century. The conclusion is that astrophysics is too important to be left in the hands of astrophysicists who have gotten their main knowledge from these textbooks. Earthbound and space telescope data must be treated by scientists who are familiar with laboratory and magnetospheric physics and circuit theory, and of course with modern plasma theory."
[Lamenting the traditional neglect of plasma physics]
— Hannes Alfvén

There you go again, this plasma isn't really plasma nor does it act like plasma, it must be dark gravitational plasma!
Shelgeyr
1.5 / 5 (6) May 17, 2013
That's what plasma does, it forms filaments, sheets, and cells ...


Gravity does exactly the same. It is obvious that the dominant process here is simply the momentum of the ejected material, there is no evidence for plasma effects.


But the electromagnetic forces at play are some 39 orders of magnitude greater than that of gravity. As you can see, this diffuse plasma is not dispersing according to gas laws, so you are flatly incorrect when you say there is no evidence for plasma effects. On the contrary, there is ONLY evidence for plasma effects. Why do you think we can even see it at all?
Fleetfoot
5 / 5 (3) May 18, 2013
Gravity does exactly the same. It is obvious that the dominant process here is simply the momentum of the ejected material, there is no evidence for plasma effects.


But the electromagnetic forces at play are some 39 orders of magnitude greater than that of gravity.


For what kind of particle? Is that true for a dust grain of 1 microgram mass which has collected a single electron? What about a crystal of ice? That's exactly the sort of pseudoscience the EU fraternity propagate.

As you can see, this diffuse plasma is not dispersing according to gas laws,


Internal pressure opposes gravitational collapse. Above the Jeans mass, the cloud will condense from say a roughly ellipsoidal, random shape into a flat sheet, then a filament and finally, if it has enough mass, a small ball we call a star.
Fleetfoot
5 / 5 (2) May 18, 2013
you are flatly incorrect when you say there is no evidence for plasma effects.


Plasma effects may be present or they may not, do not make the mistake of thinking that I am claiming that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. What I said is true based only on the image.

On the contrary, there is ONLY evidence for plasma effects.


Then identify that evidence. Everything in the image is compatible with only gravity only acting on a cloud of dust.

Why do you think we can even see it at all?


It is an infrared image as the article said so what we can see are black-body thermal emissions from dust grains.

You I guess are thinking it is recombination emission from charged nuclei but the energy levels then would be predominantly Lyman alpha which is in the UV. The image gives no evidence even for the existence of an ionized component though undoubtedly some of the hydrogen will be in that state.
cantdrive85
2.1 / 5 (7) May 18, 2013
But the electromagnetic forces at play are some 39 orders of magnitude greater than that of gravity.


For what kind of particle? Is that true for a dust grain of 1 microgram mass which has collected a single electron? What about a crystal of ice? That's exactly the sort of pseudoscience the EU fraternity propagate.


Here is some "pseudoscience" produced by NASA that shows how water ice and dust grains behave and act like plasma. So do to your IGNORANCE you decide to call others pseudoscientists? There's a name for that, it's called pseudoskeptic. You would be greatly helped by a wider understanding of what plasma is, how it behaves and only then will you understand that in the presence of plasma, gas laws and gravity are of little concern. You will also realize how remarkably STOOOPID this statement is;
Everything in the image is compatible with only gravity only acting on a cloud of dust.

http://www.nasa.g...531.html
Fleetfoot
5 / 5 (2) May 18, 2013
Here is some "pseudoscience" produced by NASA that shows how water ice and dust grains behave and act like plasma. So do to your IGNORANCE you decide to call others pseudoscientists?


No ignorance here, I'm well aware of the article. Here are some quotes that will help you overcome yours:

some Cassini scientists think they have observed "dusty plasma," a condition theorized but not previously observed.

"Such strong coupling indicates the possible presence of so-called 'dusty plasma', rather than the 'dust in a plasma' conditions which are common in interplanetary space,"


This is a unique observation under quite unusual conditions, as the article says, what is commonplace is to observe dust mixed in with a plasma and acting like dust.
cantdrive85
1.8 / 5 (5) May 18, 2013
So, these "scientists" are disregarding the in situ observations and ASSUME that this is somehow unique? How about applying what is known rather than clinging to theoretical beliefs? There is absolutely no reason to believe that this behavior is unique, especially considering how the dust is organized in filaments, cells, and current sheets. Once again it is yourself and these scientists who are acting like pseudoscientists by IGNORING in situ observations to cling to your theoretical beliefs.
Fleetfoot
5 / 5 (1) May 19, 2013
So, these "scientists" are disregarding the in situ observations and ASSUME that this is somehow unique? ...


No, they are stating a fact, that this is the first time it has been OBSERVED even though the possibility has been predicted.

.. filaments, cells, and current sheets.


Exactly what is predicted by gravity alone.
cantdrive85
1.8 / 5 (5) May 19, 2013
So, these "scientists" are disregarding the in situ observations and ASSUME that this is somehow unique? ...


No, they are stating a fact, that this is the first time it has been OBSERVED even though the possibility has been predicted.

.. filaments, cells, and current sheets.


Exactly what is predicted by gravity alone.

Let's state another fact then, there has never been any in situ observations of the theoretical astrophysical non-plasma dust. So they are in fact ignoring the observation of how this dust behaves in favor of their theoretical POV. And what pray tell makes this situation unique? Magnetic field? Nope, lots of fields in clouds of "hot gas". Electric currents? Nope, lot's of that in plasma too. Plasma is not unique, it is by far the most dominate form of matter.

It's predicted by "gravity only" so long as you have some hypothetical dark matter to enable such a feat.

cantdrive85
1.8 / 5 (5) May 19, 2013
It is an infrared image as the article said so what we can see are black-body thermal emissions from dust grains.


Really? Are we sure? The easiest answer is NO! This from a paper that discusses the black body relation to plasma;

"Although the plasma – body radiation involves qualitatively a profound change from the black –body radiation, its quantitative effects are not yet measurable in the cosmic radiation. There is hope that the plasma correction may be observed in a (near) future."

Well, you'd think they would have that one figure out already, being in excess of 99% of the Universe is in the plasma state.

http://www.piers....4_02.pdf
Fleetfoot
not rated yet May 19, 2013
.. filaments, cells, and current sheets.


Exactly what is predicted by gravity alone.


It's predicted by "gravity only" so long as you have some hypothetical dark matter to enable such a feat.


Nope, it is predicted for all forms of mass as a result of Jeans Instability.
Fleetfoot
not rated yet May 19, 2013
It is an infrared image as the article said so what we can see are black-body thermal emissions from dust grains.


Really? Are we sure? The easiest answer is NO! This from a paper that discusses the black body relation to plasma;

"Although the plasma – body radiation involves qualitatively a profound change from the black –body radiation, its quantitative effects are not yet measurable in the cosmic radiation. There is hope that the plasma correction may be observed in a (near) future."

Well, you'd think they would have that one figure out already, being in excess of 99% of the Universe is in the plasma state.

http://www.piers....4_02.pdf


You'd think so, but that's a "Plasma Universe" paper. In reality, hydrogen plasma emits due to recombination:

http://en.wikiped...l_series

Even more importantly, neutral hydrogen atoms can be ionized at the same frequency:

http://astro.berk...lya.html
cantdrive85
1.8 / 5 (5) May 19, 2013
.. filaments, cells, and current sheets.


Exactly what is predicted by gravity alone.


It's predicted by "gravity only" so long as you have some hypothetical dark matter to enable such a feat.


Nope, it is predicted for all forms of mass as a result of Jeans Instability.

There you go applying physics of gas laws developed in the early 1900's before it was understood that these areas are in fact plasma. Gerrit Verschuur has gone to great lengths to show the CIV value is readily met by the relative motion of these clouds, even a partially ionized astrophysical "gas" will behave as an electromagnetically driven plasma.
cantdrive85
1.8 / 5 (5) May 19, 2013
You'd think so, but that's a "Plasma Universe" paper. In reality, hydrogen plasma emits due to recombination:


Even NASA acknowledges the Universe is >99% plasma, any paper that refers to such is only acknowledging the obvious.

Recombination of astrophysical plasma is theorized, and it largely ignores lab results of plasma experiments. Recombination readily occurs within Earth atmosphere, this is not the case with astrophysical plasmas. Astrophysical plasma form DL's, electromagnetically bound filaments and cells, electric fields and electric currents. Dissimilar charges don't seek each other and "cancel out" in an astrophysical sense, this is pseudoscience that ignores lab results and observation.