Americans and religion increasingly parting ways

Mar 13, 2013

Religious affiliation in the United States is at its lowest point since it began to be tracked in the 1930s, according to analysis of newly released survey data by researchers from the University of California, Berkeley, and Duke University. Last year, one in five Americans claimed they had no religious preference, more than double the number reported in 1990.

UC Berkeley Mike Hout and Claude Fischer , along with Mark Chaves of Duke University, analyzed data on religious attitudes as part of the , a highly cited biannual poll conducted by NORC, an independent research institute at the University of Chicago.

Results of the – which looked at numerous issues, including attitudes about and how tax dollars should be spent, and is funded in part by the National Science Foundation – are being released now and in coming weeks.

On American attitudes toward religion, UC Berkeley researchers found that 20 percent of a nationally reported no religious preference. That's a jump from 1990 when all but 8 percent of Americans polled identified with an organized faith.

"This continues a trend of Americans disavowing a specific that has accelerated greatly since 1990," said Hout, lead author of the study.

Hout and Fischer are authors of the General Social Survey study that in 2002 first identified a rise in the number of "unchurched." They are careful to distinguish the survey category of "no religion," which means individuals who are not part of an organized religion, from "atheists," who do not believe in God and made up just 3 percent of those interviewed last year. Meanwhile, just 8 percent of those surveyed said they were raised with no religion.

Responses in the survey were to the question, "What is your religious preference? Is it Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, some other religion, or no religion?"

An analysis of the results suggests the following:

  • Liberals are far more likely to claim "no religion" (40 percent) than conservatives (9 percent)
  • Men are more likely than women to claim "no religion" (24 percent of men versus 16 percent of women).
  • More whites claimed "no religion" (21 percent) compared to African Americans (17 percent) and Mexican Americans (14 percent).
  • More than one-third of 18-to-24-year-olds claimed "no religion" compared to just 7 percent of those 75 and older.
  • Residents of the Midwestern and Southern states were least likely to claim "no religion" compared to respondents in the Western, Mountain and Northeastern states. But Midwesterners and Southerners are catching up, Hout said.
  • Educational differences among those claiming "no " are small compared to other demographic differences.
  • About one-third of Americans identify with a conservative Protestant denomination, one-quarter are Catholics (although 35 percent were raised Catholic) and 1.5 percent are Jewish.

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BSD
3.2 / 5 (29) Mar 13, 2013
More and more people are seeing religion for what it really is: Fraudulent Bullshit.
Those who preach it: Fraudulent Bullshit Artists.
hemitite
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 13, 2013
BSD,
You should temper your faith with reason.
baudrunner
2.2 / 5 (29) Mar 13, 2013
Religion is not a fraud. it is based on something. And the truth behind that something has yet to be fully realized, which makes the strength and longevity of religious foundations a compelling reason to respect them. We'll know the real truth someday, but in the meantime, keep the faith. It certainly does no harm, and can be only a good thing when taken for what it represents - community; family; harmony; peace and good will; charity; hope; etc. etc.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (29) Mar 13, 2013
All while the socialist welfare state grows. Not a coincidence.
panorama
4.1 / 5 (24) Mar 13, 2013
It certainly does no harm

Crusades...inquisition...9/11...countless other "faith based initiatives"

Does no harm...that's bullshit.
kochevnik
3.7 / 5 (22) Mar 13, 2013
I realized that half of humanity claims knowledge of some divine creator, yet they're too stupid to connect with same so they go through middlemen, i.e. religion. How can they sense a connection yet not have an original thought?

Then I realized another 49% ascribe to reason in some form, yet they also outsource the task of what to think ABOUT to the media or peers.

I estimate only about 1% grasp their skills at a conscious level, enough to successfully adapt to change without copying others
baudrunner
3.4 / 5 (19) Mar 13, 2013
All while the socialist welfare state grows. Not a coincidence.
The alternative is crime or genocide. I prefer what we have now.

Crusades...inquisition...9/11...countless other "faith based initiatives"
True enough, but those are expressions of vanity, not spiritual in nature. Vanity, with its roots in selfishness and pride, is a deadly sin. Also, reassess your definition of "faith based initiatives", a new meme not related to those events.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (22) Mar 13, 2013
Religion is not a fraud. it is based on something. And the truth behind that something has yet to be fully realized
Nope its a fraud.

Science shows that the events and people described in the books didnt happen. Therefore the authors of those books were either knowingly lying or they were unaware that they were propagating lies. Either way they cannot be the honest, omniscient gods they claimed to be IN THEIR BOOKS.

If the book gods lie then they cannot be valid sources of knowledge or morality. We can conclude that the books were written by people for wholly human reasons.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (16) Mar 13, 2013
We'll know the real truth someday, but in the meantime, keep the faith. It certainly does no harm
Richard Dawkins will tell you that faith is evil.
http://www.aljaze...381.html

-Belief despite evidence is evil. It should be resisted and rejected wherever it emerges.
PeterD
2 / 5 (11) Mar 13, 2013
More humans have been damaged by religion than anything else humans have invented.Religion is complete nonsense, and anyone who believes in it is an idiot. The root cause of every war is religion. Yes,the soul may go on after the death of the body,but we all go to the same place,and religion has NOTHING to do with it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (16) Mar 13, 2013
Yes,the soul may go on after the death of the body,but we all go to the same place,and religion has NOTHING to do with it
Still cant let go eh? Everything we know about souls and afterlife and heaven and hell, come from religion and nowhere else. There is absolutely no evidence for any of it.

The only reasons for these notions to exist at all, is that religions could NOT exist without them.
Q-Star
3 / 5 (15) Mar 13, 2013
More humans have been damaged by religion than anything else humans have invented.Religion is complete nonsense, and anyone who believes in it is an idiot. The root cause of every war is religion. Yes,the soul may go on after the death of the body,but we all go to the same place,and religion has NOTHING to do with it.


I realize that ya only have an average IQ, somewhere in the 115 to 120 range. But even so, if ya had paid attention in your history classes, ya would know that,,,

The root cause of every war is religion.


,,,, is just plain wrong. Sometimes people fight over stuff. Real world, not make believe stuff. At times they may to pretty it up, and justify it by singing "My God is Better Than Your God",,, but in the end it is often over stuff that one party has, and another party wants. (Anyone with an average IQ, which I am assuming ya have should know that.)
VendicarE
4 / 5 (12) Mar 13, 2013
The "truth" is sustainability.

Those beliefs that are sustainable are sustained.

"And the truth behind that something has yet to be fully realized" - BaudRunner

For Religion, sustainability is in large part a result of apparent equity and it's ability to produce happiness.

Love thy neighbor works because it produces stability. The opposite - Hate thy neighbor - can not be used to form a stable society.

It is for this reason that most religions have hit upon the same general formula for defining "morality", since virtually all other moral codes are socially unstable and die out over time.

It is no coincidence that as the Libertarian/Randite view that "Greed is the ultimate good, Self interest is the only valid interest, and money the only true God" has become more prevalent in America, American society has collapsed, and America has become a chronic and spectacular failure.

kris2lee
1 / 5 (3) Mar 13, 2013
,,,, is just plain wrong. Sometimes people fight over stuff. Real world, not make believe stuff. At times they may to pretty it up, and justify it by singing "My God is Better Than Your God",,, but in the end it is often over stuff that one party has, and another party wants. (Anyone with an average IQ, which I am assuming ya have should know that.)


Maybe the leaders of those people do that but the whole mass who will not benefit? Let me question this.

Even when they do they do not it without any self-justification why they are allowed to do this.
VendicarE
4 / 5 (9) Mar 13, 2013
As the precision of language increaes and metaphor is increasingly removed from language, and as a result the precision of cognitive formulation improves, the magical aspects of religion are being abandoned, and correctly so.

It remains to be seen how much the spiritualism and tradition will remain.

"More humans have been damaged by religion than anything else humans have invented.Religion is complete nonsense, and anyone who believes in it is an idiot." - PeterD

Current Religions carry so much historical baggage that it is difficult to see how they could morph into their proper role as the formulator and director of the global societies moral and ethical governance.

VendicarE
4.2 / 5 (10) Mar 13, 2013
And he is absolutely wrong.

"Richard Dawkins will tell you that faith is evil." - Otto

I have enough faith that if I let go of a hammer on a planet with positive gravity, to know without looking that it has fallen.

What Dawkins should be challenging is faith in magical thinking. Faith without evidence. Faith without valid scientific theory. Etc.

However, faith in one form or another is the basis of every belief system, and every fact.
VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (13) Mar 13, 2013
That is after all, what Christ wanted.

"All while the socialist welfare state grows." - RyggTard
Q-Star
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 13, 2013
,,,, is just plain wrong. Sometimes people fight over stuff. Real world, not make believe stuff. At times they may to pretty it up, and justify it by singing "My God is Better Than Your God",,, but in the end it is often over stuff that one party has, and another party wants. (Anyone with an average IQ, which I am assuming ya have should know that.)


Maybe the leaders of those people do that but the whole mass who will not benefit? Let me question this.

Even when they do they do not it without any self-justification why they are allowed to do this.


What thing are ya trying to ask me? I just can't make out a coherent question in all that?
Neinsense99
2.4 / 5 (14) Mar 13, 2013
I realize that ya only have an average IQ, somewhere in the 115 to 120 range. But even so, if ya had paid attention in your history classes, ya would know that,,,
---
My IQ is more than high enough that I can recognize arrogance when I encounter it.
ryggesogn2
2.7 / 5 (22) Mar 13, 2013
It certainly does no harm

Crusades...inquisition...9/11...countless other "faith based initiatives"

Does no harm...that's bullshit.


Faith based societies like communism, socialism, fascism have murdered millions.
Spanish priests traveled with Cortez and conquistadors and were appalled by the atrocities committed by the Spanish military and reported such to higher authorities.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (24) Mar 13, 2013
Govts have been trying to replace God with State for thousands of years.
State is still losing.
kochevnik
2.3 / 5 (8) Mar 14, 2013
@Q-Tard
The root cause of every war is religion.

,,,, is just plain wrong. Sometimes people fight over stuff. Real world, not make believe stuff. At times they may to pretty it up, and justify it by singing "My God is Better Than Your God",,, but in the end it is often over stuff that one party has, and another party wants. (Anyone with an average IQ, which I am assuming ya have should know that.)

All Wars Are Bankers' Wars https://www.youtu...EBupAeo4

Bankers align themselves with government, which in turn aligns with religion to instigate and incite ALL wars.
@VendicarE I have enough faith that if I let go of a hammer on a planet with positive gravity, to know without looking that it has fallen.
No need to call out for faith, when a simple requirement for reproducibility will suffice. A robot can test a theory, and requires no religion chip
alfie_null
5 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2013
Faith based societies like communism, socialism, fascism have murdered millions.
Spanish priests traveled with Cortez and conquistadors and were appalled by the atrocities committed by the Spanish military and reported such to higher authorities.

Umm- that would be the Catholic Church, right?
BSD
1.6 / 5 (16) Mar 14, 2013
BSD,
You should temper your faith with reason.

I'm a faithless, militant religion (BULLSHIT) hater and sneer at the at the bullshit artist freaks who preach it.
The only good religious, are the dead religious.
Islam and Christianity, the two most violent religions on earth. They only understand death and destruction, that is how you communicate with them.
kochevnik
3.1 / 5 (9) Mar 14, 2013
Faith based societies like communism, socialism, fascism have murdered millions.
Spanish priests traveled with Cortez and conquistadors and were appalled by the atrocities committed by the Spanish military and reported such to higher authorities.

Umm- that would be the Catholic Church, right?
Argentinian cardinals helped military criminals avoid human rights groups by hiding them on an island. The Argentinian military disappeared at least 22,000 people off the street by kidnapping, flying them to altitude and dropping them with weights into the ocean. They sold the orphan children into sex slavery to the highest bidder
: http://www.guardi...ce?rss=1
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (12) Mar 14, 2013
,,,, is just plain wrong. Sometimes people fight over stuff. Real world, not make believe stuff. At times they may to pretty it up, justify it by singing "My God is Better Than Your God",,, but in the end it is often over stuff that one party has, and another party wants. (Anyone with an average IQ, which I am assuming ya have should know that.)
Wars have always been fought over resources. Tribes inevitably grew to the point where they were in conflict over their neighbors. Tribes which could develop greater internal cohesion in concert with external animosity, could be expected to prevail in these conflicts.

Religions emerged which could assist with this successful tribal dynamic. They could extend internal cohesion over larger groups of strangers, and direct animosity toward enemies with greater effect. Those which were best at this are the ones which survived to this day.

This enhanced dynamic is recognizable in EVERY conflict, every state ideology.
Cont
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (12) Mar 14, 2013
It shows us that functionally speaking, communism is no different than Catholicism or islamism, in galvanizing large, disparate masses of people and setting them against one another to greatest effect.

The DETAILS of the ideologies are unimportant. The STRUCTURES all share crucial aspects: a chosen people with an intrinsic right to take what others have, or to prevent others from taking what they have.

Religions will claim moral superiority but are certainly no better at avoiding war or resolving it that any other system. That is because these other systems are ALL religious in nature.

If there had been 6 million cathars in southern France then the inquisitor would have killed them all, along with a sizable number of innocent Catholics; and we could then claim that he and hitler were equals. They both used the same religionist structure to do what they did. So did Mao, Stalin, pol pot, muhammud, caesar, genghis khan, and any other successful conqueror you wish to name.
BSD
2.5 / 5 (13) Mar 14, 2013
Stalin was a Catholic, that prominent German leader from 1933 to 1945 was also a Catholic. Religion is a form of totalitarianism and violence sweetened with a sickly syrup of moral superiority and smiling, feigning kindness.
Modernmystic
2.3 / 5 (12) Mar 14, 2013
It is no coincidence that as the Libertarian/Randite view that "Greed is the ultimate good, Self interest is the only valid interest, and money the only true God" has become more prevalent in America, American society has collapsed, and America has become a chronic and spectacular failure.


So what happened in Soviet Russia? Eastern Europe? Actually as much as I hate to admit it America hasn't just recently come to libertarian ideals, it was FOUNDED on them and as it's become more socialist/collectivist has it become the chronic failure that it is.

That is not to say that one can have the "sense of community" the average libertarian does and have any kind of cohesive society, but their economic theory is extremely sound and makes socialism look like something a monkey penned with one of those large crayons they give to two year old children before they have developed a prehensile grasp...
Modernmystic
2.8 / 5 (9) Mar 14, 2013
The only good religious, are the dead religious.
Islam and Christianity, the two most violent religions on earth. They only understand death and destruction, that is how you communicate with them.


And here is a perfect example of how not to be a human being...

What YOU are preaching is FAR worse than what most religions do. I hope you never get the chance to actually hurt anyone.
antialias_physorg
3.3 / 5 (10) Mar 14, 2013
Religion is like any other type of forming societies based on nothing but says-so (in this it isn't much different from nations and national pride/nationalistic sentiments). As such it is prone to being abused.

Religion itself isn't good or bad.
It's when people start to think that it means something that problems arise. Because as soon as some people value something inherently without value (like a particular belief or being born one one side of an arbitrary line instead of another) that they can be led into doing stupid things by others who want to profit from such stupidity.

Religion is a powerbase rife for abuse. Slightly moreso than nationality because religion attracts the stupid (whereas nationality, at least, isn't selective about intelligence).
djr
4.4 / 5 (7) Mar 14, 2013
antialias "because religion attracts the stupid"

A huge part of religion is the suspension or reason. 'this is true because the holy book says it is true'. The big problem with the suspension of reason is that children are in a highly formative stage. A responsible culture helps them develop reason. If we suspend reason - we stunt the growth of our children - and suppress the intelligence of our society as a whole. We will make great strides as a species when we evolve beyond the need to suspend reason.
CapitalismPrevails
3.4 / 5 (17) Mar 14, 2013
It certainly does no harm

Crusades...inquisition...9/11...countless other "faith based initiatives"

Does no harm...that's bullshit.


And how can you say it isn't human nature that's to blame?
CapitalismPrevails
3.1 / 5 (17) Mar 14, 2013
Everything we know about souls and afterlife and heaven and hell, come from religion and nowhere else. There is absolutely no evidence for any of it.

The only reasons for these notions to exist at all, is that religions could NOT exist without them.


You know cosmic black holes were thought not to exist at one time but now we know they do exist. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of the absence of evidence.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (13) Mar 14, 2013
Religion itself isn't good or bad.
Religion is most decidedly BAD. It thrives on belief despite evidence. It debases evidence.

Religionists rejects all non-believers on the claim that heresy and apostasy threaten their future in heaven. Religionists claim that anyone who doesnt believe in their god CANNOT be moral, and therefore cannot be trusted.

These attitudes are not arbitrary; they are explained in detail in their books, and demanded of adherents by their gods on the promise of granted wishes and immortality.

RELIGION is by definition bigotry, superstition, and immorality. It generates distrust, suspicion, and discord. It survives by sustaining ignorance. It encourages criminal activity against innocents.

Because of these things it is fundamentally evil.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (12) Mar 14, 2013
You know cosmic black holes blah
Scientists and religionists alike have been digging all over the middle east, and methodically studying the books, for centuries. What they have found convinces them that the bible stories never happened. There is no way that this could NOT be true. Mountains of evidence tell them this.

No flood. No exodus. No genocidal joshuan rampage. No great davidic or solomonic kingdoms. No superhuman lovegod. All fantasy, all fiction.

Therefore the omniscient god who claims to have written books describing these things as if they were REAL, cannot and DOES NOT exist.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (13) Mar 14, 2013
Govts have been trying to replace God with State for thousands of years.
State is still losing
Western countries have laws enacted by the majority. Gods have laws which they claim only apply if people worship them and them alone.

3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
4–6 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain
8–11 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

-And if you cant accept these then you are incapable of the rest. This is simply not true ryggy. Even your god does not comply.
ryggesogn2
2.9 / 5 (21) Mar 14, 2013
Humans have been around for thousands of years.
Only after men like Locke and others observed that human rights to life, liberty and property are inherent from God, not any collective of men.
Coincidentally (?) our modern age of liberty and prosperity exploded around the world and the concept is still spreading.
This concept was told to Samuel in 1 Samuel 8: 10-20 when the Israelis demanded a king, and God warned men what a king (state) will DO to them. When God is your king, men do not need a human king.
And for you atheist socialists, this means that moral humans don't need the state.
Lenin stated this quite well when he said communists MUST be atheists as a communists can put nothing above the socialist state.
panorama
2.6 / 5 (7) Mar 14, 2013
And how can you say it isn't human nature that's to blame?


Human nature soaked in the subterfuge of religion...yeah...I feel better.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.4 / 5 (14) Mar 14, 2013
Only after men like Locke and others observed that human rights to life, liberty and property are inherent from God, not any collective of men
No, as I have shown you in the past, lockes religion made him a bigot who RESTRICTED rights to those who believed in HIS GOD ALONE.

[Catholics] can have no right to be tolerated by the magistrate, which is constituted upon such a bottom, that all those who enter into it, do thereby ipso facto deliver themselves up to the protection and service of another prince. For by this means the magistrate would give way to the settling of a foreign jurisdiction in his own country, and suffer his own people to be listed, as it were, for soldiers against his own government."

"Those are not at all to be tolerated who deny the being of God. Promises, covenants, and oaths, which are the bonds of human society, can have no hold upon an atheist."

-Internal altruism and external animosity. Unbelievers and enemy tribes are always a little less than human.
EverythingsJustATheory
2.7 / 5 (9) Mar 14, 2013

And for you atheist socialists, this means that moral humans don't need the state.


Moral humans most certainly don't need religion. When religion is involved, one's morality always seems to be negotiable to what one thinks god wants at that time.

Lenin stated this quite well when he said communists MUST be atheists as a communists can put nothing above the socialist state.


Thereby creating his own religion with him being god. That is not atheism.
EverythingsJustATheory
5 / 5 (3) Mar 14, 2013
All a moral human needs is what Confucius stated 500 years before your imaginary god supposedly existed: "Do not unto others, as you would have not done unto you."
antialias_physorg
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2013
Religion is most decidedly BAD.

Religion is like captalism or communism or vegtarianims or fire...it can be lead to beneficial behavior (look at Buddhism for example. Certainly not without its problems but not really a force of evil, either)...and it can lead to being abused.
I'd agree that religions TEND to turn out bad (much like any other group forming mechanism based on fantasy) - and should therefore be avoided like the plague. But they're not inherently bad.
Religionists claim that anyone who doesnt believe in their god CANNOT be moral,

Tolerant religions exist (a minority, but still...).
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (11) Mar 14, 2013
Lenin stated this quite well when he said communists MUST be atheists as a communists can put nothing above the socialist state
You yourself are an atheist regarding any gods besides your own.

I have also shown you that communists played to the same emotions as OTHER religions do.

"In direct contradiction to those writers of fantasy who profess to find in the representation of private interests ideal romanticism, immeasurable depths of feeling, and the most fruitful source of individual and specific forms of MORALITY, such representation on the contrary abolishes all natural and SPIRITUAL distinctions by enthroning in their stead the immoral, irrational and SOULless abstraction of a particular material object and a particular consciousness which is slavishly subordinated to this object."
-Debates on the Law on Thefts of Wood

-He borrowed these concepts directly from religion, as he was constructing one of his own.
EverythingsJustATheory
3 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2013
Religion is most decidedly BAD.

Religion is like captalism or communism or vegtarianims or fire...it can be lead to beneficial behavior (look at Buddhism for example. Certainly not without its problems but not really a force of evil, either)...and it can lead to being abused.
I'd agree that religions TEND to turn out bad (much like any other group forming mechanism based on fantasy) - and should therefore be avoided like the plague. But they're not inherently bad.
Religionists claim that anyone who doesnt believe in their god CANNOT be moral,

Tolerant religions exist (a minority, but still...).


While I would tend to agree with you in theory, the problem is in the application. Tolerant religions don't prevail and are usurped by the militant ones.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.4 / 5 (14) Mar 14, 2013
(look at Buddhism for example. Certainly not without its problems but not really a force of evil, either)
OF COURSE it is. Millions got themselves killed when they were expelled from india. Martyrdom is an especially disgusting form of religion-inspired violence... sacrificing oneself for a lie.

"Burma: escalating violence signals religious war

As the country prepares for Barack Obama's arrival, Rohingya and Arakanese communities claim atrocities on both sides"
http://www.guardi...escalate

-Buddhism says the same things as any other religion, and produces the exact same results.
Tolerant religions exist
They all claim toleration of potential converts. They ALL practice exclusion, persecution, ignorance, bigotry.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (10) Mar 14, 2013
Tolerant religions don't prevail and are usurped by the militant ones.
They all read the exact same books, which contain the exact same instructions for the most extreme forms of violence in their defense. If they were serious about tolerance they would edit these parts out. If they were serious about truth they would edit out all the lies.

If they were serious about morality they would REMOVE all sources of immorality from their BOOKS. This may prevent moderates from becoming fanatics when their beliefs or their ways of life are threatened.

But you still have that nonsense about eternal life which people seem so eager to kill and die for. Without that, religion ceases to exist.
Guy_Underbridge
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2013
Oblivion is scary. Insurance against oblivion sells well, and no one ever comes back asking for a refund.
panorama
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2013
Oblivion is scary. Insurance against oblivion sells well, and no one ever comes back asking for a refund.


http://www.subgenius.com

Eternal Salvation or triple your money back!
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (8) Mar 14, 2013
I like these ideas:
http://www.christ...l-30231/
http://news.disco...0308.htm

-Fellowship without the superstition. And you dont have to be trying to get sober.
djr
3.7 / 5 (12) Mar 14, 2013
"Absence of evidence isn't evidence of the absence of evidence."

So what? Absence of evidence of leprechauns, does not disprove the existence of leprechauns - so what? You will still have to give me evidence of leprechauns before I will believe they exist - so I will not expend any energy in believing in them. Do you see the difference?
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (18) Mar 14, 2013
http://phys.org/n...firstCmt

For the atheist/socialists out there who sneer at the concept of inherent human rights, why didn't the dinosaurs or some other form of life become intelligent, make tools, and sent probes outside the solar system? If they did, where are the artifacts?
I'm sure some of you will think this is about ID, I don't rule it out, but so many of you refuse to acknowledge each human is an intelligent individual not a drone in a hive subject to a socialist state.
CapitalismPrevails
3.6 / 5 (13) Mar 15, 2013

So what? Absence of evidence of leprechauns, does not disprove the existence of leprechauns - so what? You will still have to give me evidence of leprechauns before I will believe they exist - so I will not expend any energy in believing in them. Do you see the difference?


Faith doesn't work for me because i believe faith=delusion. But in the case of God, it would behoove us to at least hold out the possibility of his existence. The universe is to big to know the truth and that's why i'm agnostic and don't believe in absolutes. Personally i would not like to believe leprechauns exist and God is not spaghetti monster behind the moon. I would also like to believe that i own myself and that i am my own master but i recognize the fact the universe is inherently unfair. Why do gamma ray bursts and black holes destroy solar systems? They didn't ask to be destroyed but it sure happens. Neither do orphans ask to be orphans.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.4 / 5 (14) Mar 15, 2013
why didn't the dinosaurs or some other form of life become intelligent, make tools, and sent probes outside the solar system?
Ryggy is devolving I think.

Why is it that true humans walked the earth for 300k years before your god showed up? What took him so long to offer salvation?

And if I am reading your thought processes correctly, how much further along technologically would we be, if the church-sponsored dark ages hadnt occurred? Thats 1000 YEARS of stagnation caused by your religion.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (15) Mar 15, 2013
The universe is to big to know the truth and that's why i'm agnostic and don't believe in absolutes
BECAUSE we are absolutely certain that the major events described in the bible DID NOT occur, we can conclude that the god described therein, DOES NOT EXIST. How can anyone doubt this?
Modernmystic
3.3 / 5 (12) Mar 15, 2013
Basically people are starting to "grow up". Now one can be a rationalist about spiritual matters and be a complete infant on other matters (some people on this board are PERFECT examples). However, people who don't believe someone is coming to save them, whether it's the government, or invisible all powerful beings who live in the sky or in another dimension generally (key word) tend to be more mature, tolerant, and emotionally stable.
CapitalismPrevails
3.3 / 5 (12) Mar 15, 2013
Can you elaborate on how you are "absolutely certain"? Most of the books of the Bible were written 2000 years ago. BTW, did i say i was using the Bible as substantiation? Why would the old testament or the new testament really matter to my logic? I'm arguing more from a philosophical perspective.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (11) Mar 15, 2013
to my logic?
?? The bible says it was written by god.
http://www.openbi...ods_word

This god claims to be all-knowing and all-powerful.
http://thoughtful...iscient/

-And the only source of morality.
http://www.openbi...s/morals

-including being incapable of lying.
http://wiki.answe..._not_lie

So. We have an all-powerful, all-knowing, and completely honest god who CREATED the universe described thusly in the book he says he wrote. And nowhere else but the book.

And yet EVIDENCE tells us that the flood, the exodus, the joshuan slaughter, the kingdoms, and jesus never happened.

Did god lie? Did he make all the evidence disappear and replace it with contrary evidence in order to deceive us? Or did he just not know that the stories were lies?

He CANNOT BE the god of the books if he is a liar, or ignorant, or incompetent.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (11) Mar 15, 2013
-So why would we trust anything that the books say, if they claim to be written by a perfect god who nevertheless made so many factual errors in them?
http://www.freeth...ictions/

-Can we believe in a heaven which was supposed to have been made along with the earth in a day, when we KNOW the earth took billions of years to create?

-Can we believe that souls exist when they are described by a god who only stole the resurrection story from far earlier godman myths?
http://loltheists.com/?p=778

-Can we trust anything we find in books which claim to have been written by people who did not write them?
http://news.disco...0518.htm

-or use stories which were obviously pilfered from earlier religions?
http://www.livius...od3.html

-or falsely claim to be the origin of law and morality?
http://www.specia...abi.html
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (17) Mar 15, 2013
Faith doesn't work for me because i believe faith=delusion.

Data proves otherwise:
"Dr. Barbara Fredrickson gives you the lab-tested tools necessary to create a healthier, more vibrant, and flourishing life. She discovered that experiencing positive emotions in a 3-to-1 ratio with negative ones leads people to a tipping point beyond which they naturally become more resilient to adversity and effortlessly achieve what they once could only imagine"
http://www.positi...thor.php
ryggesogn2
3 / 5 (18) Mar 15, 2013
Another question I have for the anti-relgious, especially the anti-Christians and Jews, (they are too afraid to be actively anti-Islam), civilizations have rose and fell for thousands of years. All have had some form of state religion. Maybe 5000 years is too short a time, but the Judeo-Christian faith has spread around the world. Can the same be said of the Egyptian religion, or the Sumerian or any of the Indian (Asian) religions?
And those religions that have have a more global reach, Hindu, Buddhism, what has been holding these societies back?
Western civilization celebrates individual liberty. Heroes include King Leonidas, Spartacus, William Wallace, Martin Luther and documents like the Magna Carta, Theory of Moral Sentiments, Wealth of Nations and the US Constitution. China and India are only now trying to emulate the West because of its success. Why are so many from the West ashamed and attack the moral principals that led to their success?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (13) Mar 15, 2013
they are too afraid to be actively anti-Islam
Patience. The religion is busy destroying itself.
but the Judeo-Christian faith has spread around the world
Technology enabled this didnt it? Each of the religions spread as far as technology allowed it to at the time.

But religions have evolved, keeping what worked and discarding what didnt. Less effective religions were simply overwhelmed and destroyed. Islam is only a more stripped-down and purpose-built version of your own.

Jews threatened the roman empire. Their unique formula for maximizing reproduction, outgrowing and overrunning the enemy, was unparalleled in the ancient world. Augustine and others described this.

And so rome and greece invented a yet more virulent religion which vilified the jews, and commenced to destroying the jewish state in palestine and providing a mechanism for periodic pogrom throughout the western world.

Your religion says nothing different than any other religion. All are based on lies.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (13) Mar 15, 2013
You mention the magna carta. It reinforces the restrictions placed on jews.

"* (10) If anyone who has borrowed a sum of money from Jews dies before the debt has been repaid, his heir shall pay no interest on the debt for so long as he remains under age, irrespective of whom he holds his lands. If such a debt falls into the hands of the Crown, it will take nothing except the principal sum specified in the bond.

* (11) If a man dies owing money to Jews, his wife may have her dower and pay nothing towards the debt from it. If he leaves children that are under age, their needs may also be provided for on a scale appropriate to the size of his holding of lands. The debt is to be paid out of the residue, reserving the service due to his feudal lords. Debts owed to persons other than Jews are to be dealt with similarly."
Why are so many from the West ashamed and attack the moral principals that led to their success?
-Your book is full of lies, bigotry, violence. This is its legacy.
Modernmystic
2.7 / 5 (7) Mar 15, 2013
Would it sway me if someone asked me why more people around the world seemed to believe in Santa Claus rather than the Easter Bunny? Would that have any bearing on my credulity in any fashion?

Hmmmmm....no, it wouldn't....

Modernmystic
2.6 / 5 (8) Mar 15, 2013
As to "what's been holding" the rest of the world back?

Well there are a LOT of opinions and theories about that. I'm least likely to believe it has something to do with supernatural, non extant, non interfering beings than just about any of the others...

http://en.wikiped...nd_Steel
kochevnik
2.3 / 5 (12) Mar 15, 2013
Faith doesn't work for me because i believe faith=delusion.
Data proves otherwise:
Actually data from a study right here on physorg show optimists die younger, ryggie. Too bad they didn't study greedy libertarian sociopaths
For the atheist/socialists out there who sneer at the concept of inherent human rights, why didn't the dinosaurs or some other form of life become intelligent, make tools, and sent probes outside the solar system?
Dolphins are self-aware and give individuals names like humans. What about inherent dolphin rights, ryggie? Shouldn't they be able to own property and put fishermen on trial for genocide?
VendicarE
3.1 / 5 (7) Mar 15, 2013
Why haven't you done so?

"why didn't the dinosaurs or some other form of life become intelligent, make tools, and sent probes outside the solar system" - RyggTard

Are you suggesting that NASA is a fulfillment of your God's wishes?

If so then why do Randites and Libertarians (your ideology) demand that NASA be abolished?
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (17) Mar 15, 2013
Shouldn't they be able to own property and put fishermen on trial for genocide?

Why don't they?
Some dinosaurs are reported to have had the dexterity to manipulate tools. Why didn't dinosaurs travel to the stars and leave behind their arrowheads and stone spear heads.
They certainly had enough time to evolve. Homo Sapiens from apes to space in less than 4 million years.
Why didn't the dinosaurs or dolphins do this?

VendicarE
3.4 / 5 (5) Mar 15, 2013
None exist of course.

"inherent human rights" - RyggTard

You are too cowardly to list them.
ryggesogn2
2.9 / 5 (18) Mar 16, 2013
"New brain research proves doctors like Cohen are onto something: Pessimism can override the effectiveness of even powerful treatments."

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...html#jCp
"When it comes to the placebo effect, it really may be mind over matter, a new analysis suggests."
http://phys.org/n...959.html
"Researchers used the placebo effect to successfully treat psoriasis patients with one quarter to one half of their usual dose of a widely used steroid medication,"

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...html#jCp
"The findings show that about one-quarter of placebo response was explained by the personality traits of resiliency, straightforwardness, altruism
{Faith?}
Read more at: http://medicalxpr...html#jCp
ryggesogn2
2.9 / 5 (18) Mar 16, 2013
"Spirituality correlates to better mental health regardless of religion: researchers"
http://medicalxpr...ion.html
"A 'can do' attitude is the key to a healthy lifestyle, University of Melbourne economists have determined."

Read more at: http://medicalxpr...html#jCp
""There's no doubt that religions have done some good and some bad confronting AIDS in Africa," said Jenny Trinitapoli, assistant professor of sociology, religious studies and demography. "But the negative side is often exaggerated, while the good that religious groups do is often overlooked."
{no surprise}
Read more at: http://medicalxpr...html#jCp
ryggesogn2
3 / 5 (18) Mar 16, 2013
No surprise here:
"More power leads to more dehumanization, says study"
http://medicalxpr...ion.html
"Floyd and other researchers have found that communicating our positive feelings for others through words or actions offers a wide range of health benefits. These include lower stress hormones, lower cholesterol, lower blood pressure and a stronger immune system."
{God is love.}
Read more at: http://medicalxpr...html#jCp
"Performing small acts of kindness and gratitude can make people happier, researchers believe, but how this occurs is more of a puzzle."
{Love your neighbor as you love yourself.}
Read more at: http://medicalxpr...html#jCp
VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (10) Mar 16, 2013
Just as I predicted. RyggTard was too much of a coward to list these "inherent human rights" that he claimed exist.

He is a worthless moron.
ryggesogn2
3 / 5 (16) Mar 16, 2013
This should make a few heads spin around:

"Sacred mystery: Blockbuster ratings for 'The Bible' confound Hollywood"http://www.washin...nfound-/

"Mark Burnett says 'weird things happened' on 'The Bible' set"
http://insidetv.e...ble-set/
ryggesogn2
3 / 5 (16) Mar 16, 2013
"Guy Consolmagno on Theology and Astronomy "
http://www.vatica...omy.html
Wolf358
5 / 5 (5) Mar 16, 2013
Oblivion is scary. Insurance against oblivion sells well, and no one ever comes back asking for a refund.


http://www.subgenius.com

Eternal Salvation or triple your money back!


How can you argue with a deal like that?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (13) Mar 16, 2013
Western civilization celebrates individual liberty. Heroes include King Leonidas, Spartacus, William Wallace, Martin Luther and documents like the Magna Carta, Theory of Moral Sentiments, Wealth of Nations and the US Constitution.
One thing that should be obvious to everyone but stupified religionists, when reviewing history, is that individual freedom and standard of living only began to increase when religious domination decreased.

The enlightenment was not a victory for YOUR Protestant religion, it was the beginning of the emergence of secularism and true equality for everyone. By declaring that all religions were equal and that none could legitimize the state, the west began the long Process of destroying them.

The less influence that religion has on govt, the more egalitarian it can be. The less power that religion has over science and technology, the faster they can progress.

The western progress you cite ryggy, is inversely proportional to the decline of religion.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) Mar 16, 2013
Someone once said that the best way to mitigate religionist influence was to afford them all equal rights. All religions were allowed in Alexandria. Adherents were invited in from around the world. All were allowed and encouraged to discuss, debate, and compare. In this way it could become obvious that none were true.

It also became possible in this atmosphere to ascertain the most effective aspects of each religion, and to begin to alter their constitution and improve their function to benefit Empire instead if endangering it. Monotheism was refined in just such an atmosphere.

It and it's Purpose-built descendants became powerful Tools in the extension of Imperial Order and Stability throughout the world.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2013
Oblivion is scary. Insurance against oblivion sells well, and no one ever comes back asking for a refund.


http://www.subgenius.com

Eternal Salvation or triple your money back!


How can you argue with a deal like that?
Right. And that's why it became obvious to Leaders that they had to be the ones to offer it most convincingly, or others would use it against them. The meme as a weapon.

The state alone could build the magnificent edifices which told the rubes that only god could inspire such majesty, and so the state must exist because god wants it to.
dav_daddy
2.8 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2013
You know cosmic black holes blah
Scientists and religionists alike have been digging all over the middle east, and methodically studying the books, for centuries. What they have found convinces them that the bible stories never happened. There is no way that this could NOT be true. Mountains of evidence tell them this.

No flood. No exodus. No genocidal joshuan rampage. No great davidic or solomonic kingdoms. No superhuman lovegod. All fantasy, all fiction.

Therefore the omniscient god who claims to have written books describing these things as if they were REAL, cannot and DOES NOT exist.


You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The Torah (old testament) was never meant as literal truth. The important thing is what you are supposed to learn from the stories. The old sect that wastes time trying to interpret the old testament as "true" are whack job protestants. Catholics, Jews, etc are under no such misconceptions.
ryggesogn2
2.9 / 5 (17) Mar 16, 2013
The important thing is what you are supposed to learn from the stories.

Based upon those Old Testament stories, human societies refuse to learn those lessons.
For hundreds of years the Jews were admonished to be faithful to God. When they were, they were rewardede with a prosperous society. When they failed to follow God, their society did not prosper and were taken captive.
This is playing out today. Societies are abandoning the virtues promoted by God and those societies are collapsing as the pagan State enslaves people.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (16) Mar 16, 2013
"Political theory in our tradition is based on the assumption that men must be free in society because each person has a destiny beyond society which he can work out only under conditions of liberty." If it is true that each individual has such a destiny, then he cannot be treated merely as a means to an end, but as an end in himself. And if each individual is an end in himself, then it would be a gross violation of the essential nature and basic dignity that each person possesses to treat him as a means to someone else's ends. In addition to the violation of human dignity that would result, such a treatment of people (as means rather than ends in themselves) would undermine the very foundation of civil organization. No one, not even the perpetrator of human rights violations, ultimately would be safe in such a situation."
http://www.acton....-society
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (10) Mar 16, 2013
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The Torah (old testament) was never meant as literal truth
SURE it was. Because that's what it SAYS. Religionists try to wiggle their way out of embarrassing mistakes and lapses by claiming allegory. But the books are all very clear on this - the stories were written as unequivocal TRUTH, which they most obviously are NOT. Declaring that this is not so only makes the tragedy worse.

And this is not just my opinion. It is the conclusion drawn by scores of religious and non-religious scholars and scientists, after having studied the books and excavated throughout the holy land their entire lives.

"I'm sorry but it just didn't happen." -Zahi Hawass, premier Egyptologist, recently fired for his honesty and candor.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (11) Mar 16, 2013
For hundreds of years the Jews were admonished to be faithful to God. When they were, they were rewardede with a prosperous society. When they failed to follow God, their society did not prosper and were taken captive
?? The Torah tells them that they have the god-given right to take from the goyim. It is only when they were able to reject this tribalist edict that they could live in peace.
When they failed to follow God, their society did not prosper and were taken captive.
Yah a nice story but we have determined that it is fiction.
This is playing out today. Societies are abandoning the virtues promoted by God and those societies are collapsing as the pagan State enslaves people
No, it is religionist societies worldwide which are systematically oppressing, torturing, and murdering. When they give up religion, this stops. This goes for recently liberated Europe and the US. Women and blacks can vote now did you know it?

Happy st pattys day. That's new too eh?
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (18) Mar 16, 2013
Yah a nice story but we have determined that it is fiction.

The past 2000 years of Jewish persecution is fiction?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2013
Yah a nice story but we have determined that it is fiction.

The past 2000 years of Jewish persecution is fiction?
No the bible stories about asking for a king, and being taken captive, and being slaves in Egypt, are all fiction. The jews restricted status as money lenders and nothing else, was first established by Constantine.

This was BECAUSE of the trouble that their religion was causing them around the Mediterranean. It is imperialist by nature. It is designed to conquer the enemy by outgrowing and overwhelming them, and was wildly successful at this. Which is why Rome very pragmatically chose to include the torah in it's new state-sponsored religion. A brilliant move. Xians employed it to great effect in world conquest as did Moslems.

And it is also why the gospel of John was so specific in describing the Jews as killers of christ and scourge of the world. This enabled their confinement in ghettos and stetls, and their periodic eradication.
kochevnik
2.8 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2013
@dav_daddy The Torah (old testament) was never meant as literal truth. The important thing is what you are supposed to learn from the stories. ... Catholics, Jews, etc are under no such misconceptions.
I felt the same way after watching Lord of the Rings and The Terminator
VendicarE
2.4 / 5 (5) Mar 16, 2013
Yup. Pretty much.

"The past 2000 years of Jewish persecution is fiction?" - RyggTard

Many Jews have a persecution complex, and spend their days proclaiming that they are victims of the Palestinian children they have mass murdered.
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (6) Mar 16, 2013
I've seen several Vatican priests referring to biblical "history" as nothing but "good stories".

"The Torah (old testament) was never meant as literal truth." - DayDaddy

This relegates the bible to the status of fairy tale like "The grinch who stole Christmas", or "Logan's Run".

VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (8) Mar 16, 2013
Make up your mind Tard Boy. Do you have free will or do you have none and instead have a pre-determined destiny as your nonsense BLOG site claims?

"because each person has a destiny beyond society" - RyggTard

Libertarians and Randites like RyggTard, are chronically incapable of avoiding self contradiction.

This is because their principle goal is not freedom, but the promotion of Corporatism and slavery to the Corporate machine.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (8) Mar 16, 2013
Which God are you referring to? There are so many of them.

"Societies are abandoning the virtues promoted by God and those societies are collapsing as the pagan State enslaves people." - RyggTard

Were the American founding fathers working to your God's great plan when they engaged in slavery, and created a constitution which valued blacks as a fraction of whites?

Were they working to your God's great plan when they murdered 8 million native Americans and exported war all through Mexico and South America?

Is that why America is collapsing? Because of equal rights, womans rights, and a lack of Indians to kill?

Filth.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (16) Mar 16, 2013
@dav_daddy The Torah (old testament) was never meant as literal truth. The important thing is what you are supposed to learn from the stories. ... Catholics, Jews, etc are under no such misconceptions.
I felt the same way after watching Lord of the Rings and The Terminator

"Another aspect of evil developed in Tolkien is the insatiable hunger to possess, to rule, to dominate. " {Like Obama or Putin}
"Because of history's open-endedness and the input of God and man, both free will and predestination intertwine. Out of respect for freedom, Gandalf, Elrond, and other good leaders consistently refuse to coerce those over whom they exercise authority (except in punishment, as with Saruman when his wand is broken) insisting instead upon the liberty each has to make choices, and directing a measure of rational persuasion wherever it seems essential. "
http://www.christ...835.html
VendicarE
3 / 5 (8) Mar 16, 2013
And the dream of every Capitalist.

"Another aspect of evil developed in Tolkien is the insatiable hunger to possess, to rule, to dominate." - RyggTard

Pure evil.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (10) Mar 16, 2013
"Because of history's open-endedness and the input of God and man, both free will and predestination intertwine
Only for believers, as your heroes Luther and Locke expressly state. Religion is tribalism. Tribes always have enemies who are a little less human than they.

Time to grow up ryggy and join the community of humankind. Religion is the only thing preventing you and so so many others from doing this.

Let go and let god... go. Peace will come to earth when god finally leaves it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (10) Mar 16, 2013
Yup. Pretty much.

"The past 2000 years of Jewish persecution is fiction?" - RyggTard
Get real. Jews served a proscribed Purpose: they were restricted to lending money. At the beginning of an economic Cycle they would be welcomed into an area. They would lend money without interest to fund business projects.

As prosperity ensued they would be allowed to charge usury. As growth inevitably turned into overgrowth, inflation set in, and business owners began to default, the Jews would be blamed for greed.

The king would confiscate their money and pogrom would ensue. This System was devised so that the king, who would normally be the one shelling out the seed money, could escape blame and still reap the profits.

Jewish settlements could be kept small and dynasties could endure. Win-win. This is incidentally exactly how economics work in today's world.

The question is: where did the Jews get the money to lend out in the first place? Where else but from the king?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (12) Mar 16, 2013
@dav_daddy The Torah (old testament) was never meant as literal truth. The important thing is what you are supposed to learn from the stories. ... Catholics, Jews, etc are under no such misconceptions.
I felt the same way after watching Lord of the Rings and The Terminator
Did you learn that you could live forever in paradise by worshipping tolkein and slaughtering his enemies for him? Did you learn that Tolkien created the earth in 6 days, only to find it necessary to flush it some generations later? Did you learn that human sacrifice was the only way to salvation, really and honestly?

No.
ubavontuba
2.7 / 5 (12) Mar 16, 2013
"Doctor claims he has evidence of the afterlife"

http://www.today....terlife/

VendicarE
3.2 / 5 (11) Mar 17, 2013
Doctors are expert bio-mechanics. Nothing more.

"Doctor claims he has evidence of the afterlife" - UbVonTard

You might as well have linked to an article titled.

"Auto Mechanic claims he has evidence of the afterlife."

As always, UbvonTard proves himself to be an enemy of science and reason.
Mannstein
4 / 5 (9) Mar 17, 2013
"Richard Dawkins will tell you that faith is evil."

If Richard Dawkins makes this claim it must be true. He also has a bridge in Brooklyn he is wanting to sell, incidentally.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (10) Mar 17, 2013
"Richard Dawkins will tell you that faith is evil."

If Richard Dawkins makes this claim it must be true. He also has a bridge in Brooklyn he is wanting to sell, incidentally
Naw see, Dawkins makes a claim and then backs it up with mountains of evidence.

Religionists make claims with nothing but contrary evidence to present, and then they assert that their faith alone makes it true, despite the fact that it is obviously not. And then they will insist you believe them or they will shun you, ostracize you, refuse to do business with you, forbid their kids from playing with your kids, etc.

This can and does often lead to persecution, the passage of laws forbidding anything but religious doctrine being taught in schools, etc etc and even up to and including pogrom, ethnic cleansing, war, and nuclear holocaust.

See the difference?

Faith despite evidence is what causes ALL of this. This is why Dawkins calls it evil.
kochevnik
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 17, 2013
Did you learn that Tolkien created the earth in 6 days, only to find it necessary to flush it some generations later?
Tolkien DID destroy much of Middle Earth. Perhaps he measured time in hobbit years? PROVE ME WRONG!
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 17, 2013
Did you learn that Tolkien created the earth in 6 days, only to find it necessary to flush it some generations later?
Tolkien DID destroy much of Middle Earth. Perhaps he measured time in hobbit years? PROVE ME WRONG!
Dawkins and myself want to know where is your evidence. Tolkein lacks cred and has not one basilica. Only books and movies and CGI which do not fully correlate.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 17, 2013
"Richard Dawkins will tell you that faith is evil."

If Richard Dawkins makes this claim it must be true. He also has a bridge in Brooklyn he is wanting to sell, incidentally.

Dawkin's faith:
Richard Dawkins:
"… I believe, but cannot prove, that the same is true all over the universe, wherever life may exist. I belive that all intelligence, all creativity, and all design, anywhere in the universe, is the direct or indirect product of a cumulative process equivalent to what we here call Darwinian natural selection."
What We Believe But Cannot Prove, p.9.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (9) Mar 17, 2013
Dawkin's faith:
Richard Dawkins:
"… I believe, but cannot prove, that the same is true all over the universe, wherever life may exist. I belive that all intelligence, all creativity, and all design, anywhere in the universe, is the direct or indirect product of a cumulative process equivalent to what we here call Darwinian natural selection."
What We Believe But Cannot Prove, p.9
Right. His belief is confidence based on accumulating evidence and the success of scientific inquiry. Your belief is wishful thinking despite increasing evidence that it is baseless.

See the difference? He has confidence based on evidence. You have faith based on squat. Deception. Smoke and mirrors. Tradition. Pretense. Lies.

Scientists also have the courage to say 'I don't know' while religionists use it as an excuse when presented with obvious nonsense from their books. 'No one can know why god does things.' This is cowardice not courage.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 17, 2013
Sam Harris
"… What I believe, though cannot yet prove, is that belief is a content-independent process. …"
What We Believe But Cannot Prove, p.51.

Paul CW Davies
"…I believe we are not alone because life seems to be a fundamental, and not an incidental, property of nature. It is built into the great cosmic scheme at the deepest level and therefore is likely to be pervasive. …"
What We Believe But Cannot Prove, p.17

Randolph M. Nesse, MD
"… It's harder to explain the disadvantage suffered by people who lack a capacity for faith, but consider the outcomes for those who wait for proof before acting compared with those who act on confident conviction. The great things in life are done by people who go ahead when going ahead seems senseless to others. Usually they fail-but sometimes they succeed. …"
What We Believe But Cannot Prove, p.41

TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 17, 2013
Confidence based on evidence and results. Confidence based on evidence and results. Confidence based on evidence and results. How many times do you need to hear it ryggy?

The church thrives on the cowardice of people who are afraid to examine the evidence, and on the immorality of people who refuse to present it. Religions thrive on ignorance and deception and weakness.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 17, 2013
u have faith based on squat.


Keith Devlin, Mathematician, Stanford
"…following Descartes, I can prove to myself that I exist, but I can't prove it to anyone else. Even to those who know me well, there is always the possibility, however remote, that I'm merely a figment of their imagination. If it's rock solid certainty you want from a proof, there's almost nothing beyond our own existence (whatever that means and whatever we exist as) that can prove to ourselves, and nothing at all we can prove to anyone else."
What We Believe But Cannot Prove, p.79

Confidence based on evidence and results.

That I prove to myself. That's the essence of faith.
ryggesogn2
3.5 / 5 (13) Mar 17, 2013
Paul Steinhardt, Theoretical physicist, Princeton
"I believe that our universe is not accidental, but I cannot prove it.
Historically, most physicists have shared this point of view. For centuries, most of us have believed that the universe is governed by a simple set of physical laws -- laws that are the same everywhere-- and that these laws derive from a simple unified theory. …" What We Believe But Cannot Prove P. 217
beyondApsis
5 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2013
ryggesogn2,
The unique difference in the "beliefs" that you are quoting is that they are based on a preponderance of EVIDENCE usually also backed by mathematical certainties. Believing what you can actually see is the most fundamental and reliable of all assumptions.
MandoZink
5 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2013
Believing what you can actually see is the most fundamental and reliable of all assumptions.

I think it was P.D. Ouspensky, a Russian mathematician, who expressed a good example of that:

"There either is, or isn't, but there seems to be, so I will assume that there is."

With a fundamental belief such as that you can begin to build on a foundation of evidence and proof.
zaxxon451
2.5 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2013
So what happened in Soviet Russia? Eastern Europe? Actually as much as I hate to admit it America hasn't just recently come to libertarian ideals, it was FOUNDED on them and as it's become more socialist/collectivist has it become the chronic failure that it is.


There's no doubt that America was founded on radical individualism. The move to more socialist policies in America was due to the failing of these libertarian ideals. Radical individualism/pure capitalism has proven to utterly fail society. "Let them eat cake" has never been an effective way for a proper society to function.

Ultimately, we can either be our brother's keeper or we can all hunker down wide eyed in our fortified bunkers and suck down canned soup until our stash gets sacked by someone with bigger guns.
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 17, 2013
Radical individualism/pure capitalism has proven to utterly fail society.

What has failed society is the force of government plundering the wealth of the individual AND the idea that the use of such force can make society better.
Only the 'radical' individual can make a better society. A 'radical' individual who will not use force to plunder the property of others and has the compassion to help others who are in true need.
Such a 'radical' individual has been called moral or virtuous. Where is the virtue in ganging up and plundering the wealth of anyone in society when another gang can do the same to you?
MandoZink
not rated yet Mar 17, 2013
"There either is, or isn't, but there seems to be, so I will assume that there is."

I should have explained that the above statement by Ouspensky(?) was only aimed at the most basic of questions - whether or not we even exist at all.

We seem to exist, so lets now lets look to prove everything else by logic and evidence.
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 17, 2013
Believing what you can actually see is the most fundamental and reliable of all assumptions.

How about believing what you experience?
I just saw a book by a neurosurgeon who claims he went to heaven while in a coma due to a brain injury.
Sagan has his atheist scientist character contact an alien, but she had no way to prove it to others.
If the human mind and consciousness can leave the body, how can it be measured?
Or what if an alien beams you up and says hi and returns you? How do you prove it?
Science will need to expand its capabilities if it is going to understand human consciousness and, maybe, the soul.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Mar 17, 2013
That's the essence of faith
You say this. Do you believe in evolution ryggy? People who don't believe in evolution hear what you say and this gives them confidence that they are right.

You believe in internal medicine ryggy? You reinforcing the notion that faith trumps evidence, gives others who think internal medicine is evil, the confidence that they are right.

Do you believe that Moslems should be killed? With people like you saying that faith without evidence is something honorable, these people gain confidence in their idea that genocide is a good thing.

Faith in intangible things, especially things which exist only through ignorance or emotion, often leads to unanticipated and unfortunate results. You so sure that you want to ascribe to that sort of thing? You so sure that faith without evidence is as as honorable as it FEELS?

And what about those people whose faith is diametrically opposed to your own? It makes them FEEL exactly the same way as yours does you.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 17, 2013
That I prove to myself
That sounds a little selfish doesn't it? What about those who reject evolution, or internal medicine, or who want to shoot Moslems on sight, by your standards don't they have the right to act on the proof of their own convictions as well? Your insistence in believing without evidence means they have the right to do so as well.

Belief without evidence means anything goes. Luckily, the doctrines of people like Locke and Luther could be purged of their religionist bigotry, but not before doing enormous damage. Ever read about the 30 years war?
I just saw a book by a neurosurgeon who claims he went to heaven while in a coma due to a brain injury
You think he might just try to induce this in his patients? Hope not-
Sagan
This was fiction. Like Jesus talking to an invisible god.
Or what if an alien beams you up
I am sure it obeys the laws of physics. You believe in aliens now? No evidence of them either.
Modernmystic
3.3 / 5 (7) Mar 18, 2013
I think the point to make here is that we enjoy a high degree of personal freedom (historically relatively speaking) in SPITE of religion, not because of it.

Let's face it, even the protestants weren't big on personal freedom, intellectual freedom, or even economic freedom.

To be fair neither is the current (last 50-70 years or so) American government even though they think they are....which is truly baffling as to how they arrive to that self assessment.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 18, 2013
I think the point to make here is that we enjoy a high degree of personal freedom (historically relatively speaking) in SPITE of religion, not because of it.
Only because many have fought and died to make it so. Most religionists would have it otherwise, which is why the fight needs to continue.

It's funny that ryggy is so adamant about living free of govt oppression but is perfectly willing for himself and everybody else to live under religious oppression... as long as it's roughly equivalent to his own personal, tailor-made dominator.

Ryggys god is a jealous god. No other gods but him, no thoughts which do not originate from his immaculate mind.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 18, 2013
Let's face it, even the protestants weren't big on personal freedom, intellectual freedom, or even economic freedom.


Martin Luther was the beginning of personal and intellectual freedom from the Holy Roman Empire.
The Gutenberg Press, the internet of its day) and Luther's German translation of the Bible began the process of everyman being able to read the Bible, and anything else.
Just 100 years after Luther's 95 theses, Protestants landed in MA and began an experiment in liberty and property the socialists are trying to murder today.
Modernmystic
2 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2013
Martin Luther was the beginning of personal and intellectual freedom from the Holy Roman Empire.


And that has exactly what do do with what I said? He did nothing of the kind. He wanted freedom to practice his brand of Christianity.

Locke, and Smith and similar are who you're thinking of I believe.
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 18, 2013
"In conclusion: I will preach it, teach it, write it, but I will constrain no man by force, for faith must come freely without compulsion. Take myself as an example. I have opposed the indulgences and all the papists, but never by force. I simply taught, preached, wrote God's Word; otherwise I did nothing. And then while I slept, or drank Wittenberg beer with my Philip4 and with Amsdor5, the Word so greatly weakened the papacy, that never a prince or emperor inflicted such damage upon it."
"What do you suppose is Satan's thought, when an effort is made to do things by violence? He sits back in hell and thinks: How fine a game these fools will make for me! But it brings him distress when we only spread the Word, and let it alone do the work. "
"Let this be enough at this time concerning the things that are necessary, and let us beware lest we lead astray those of weak conscience."
http://library.un...nday.htm
Modernmystic
3.3 / 5 (12) Mar 18, 2013
You must have a point in there somewhere but I'm missing it.

The people who came to America came here to ESCAPE political and religious persecution from the Church of England....which was and is protestant...

If you're looking for tolerant religion don't look to Christianity. Christ may (or may not) have been but his followers AREN'T. I became a MUCH better "Christian" after I became an atheist.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 18, 2013
The people who came to America came here to ESCAPE political and religious persecution from the Church of England....which was and is protestant...


Note the Church of ENGLAND. It was a STATE sponsored church that was established by Henry VIII so he could divorce.

The FIRST amendment prevents the US Federal govt from establishing a state religion (including atheism and socialism).
kochevnik
2.5 / 5 (11) Mar 18, 2013
Note the Church of ENGLAND. It was a STATE sponsored church that was established by Henry VIII so he could divorce.
All major religions are state sponsored, ryggie. Constantine created christianity in 325AD to consolidate state power
ryggesogn2
3.5 / 5 (13) Mar 18, 2013
Note the Church of ENGLAND. It was a STATE sponsored church that was established by Henry VIII so he could divorce.
All major religions are state sponsored, ryggie. Constantine created christianity in 325AD to consolidate state power

No, he usurped Christianity to hold on to power.
Modernmystic
2.1 / 5 (7) Mar 18, 2013
Note the Church of ENGLAND. It was a STATE sponsored church that was established by Henry VIII so he could divorce.
All major religions are state sponsored, ryggie. Constantine created christianity in 325AD to consolidate state power

No, he usurped Christianity to hold on to power.


....So Christianity is a usurped religion...

Will the real Christianity stand up please?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Mar 18, 2013
Note the Church of ENGLAND. It was a STATE sponsored church that was established by Henry VIII so he could divorce.
All major religions are state sponsored, ryggie. Constantine created christianity in 325AD to consolidate state power

No, he usurped Christianity to hold on to power.
He and others commandeered it and adapted it to serve rome. He used it to consolidate pagan euro tribes and to counter jewish proselytism.

In order to do this rome added pagan crap like the solstice/equinox holidays, earth mother mary, the cannibal eucharist, and the trinity.

If there was an independent populist religion before that time, it resembled little the institution that the greco/roman empire made out of it.
ryggesogn2
3.5 / 5 (13) Mar 18, 2013
If there was an independent populist religion before that time, it resembled little the institution that the greco/roman empire made out of it.


Exactly.
Which is why Luther referred to source documents.

Just as the US must return to source documents, the Constitution, to eradicate socialism.
Will the real Christianity stand up please?

It's called the New Testament.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 18, 2013
Ryggy is as selectively blind as any committed religionist.

"In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth." Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine," and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".
http://en.wikiped...eir_Lies

Luther HATED
Jews
Catholics
Other protestant denominations including anabaptists ('they were in the advanced stages of devilry')

-and, we can assume, heretics, heathens, people of color, women perhaps? and anyone else who offended the lord in his eyes.

These were not idle musings. Lutherans herded catholics into churches and burned them during the 30 years war.
Martin Luther was the beginning of personal and intellectual freedom from the Holy Roman Empire.
Hitler united the german people. So what?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 18, 2013
Well perhaps he didnt hate women, but felt they best served by increasing the flock until they dropped.

"Martin Luther himself taught that "the wife should stay at home and look after the affairs of the household as one who has been deprived of the ability of administering those affairs that are outside and concern the state…." John Calvin agreed that "the woman's place is in the home."
http://en.wikiped...ormation

-Ryggys early american utopia extended this attitude by forbidding them the right to vote, among other things.

Interestingly enough, he married one of the nuns he helped to escape from a convent. The reformation then outlawed religious service for women. This is eerily similar to henry the VIIIs creating his own church so he could get rid of a wife.
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 18, 2013
the wife should stay at home and look after the affairs of the household

This is called wisdom.
Research has shown children whose mothers stay at home do better in school and in life.
It is the socialists that NEED women to work outside the home so they may plunder more wealth and indoctrinate the children in socialism.
Which is why home schooling is under assault by the present regime.
Lutherans herded catholics into churches and burned them during the 30 years war.

Not at the urging or with the sanction of Luther.
Socialists murder millions WITH the sanction of their leaders.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 18, 2013
Which is why Luther referred to source documents
Source documents? There is no way to tell what those 'source documents' were. The roman church had the bible in its exclusive control for 1000 years. The 'Q' source from which the gospels copied from has long since disappeared.

The pagan elements, the anti-jewish rhetoric, the fake ending to the gospel of mark, the 'cast the first stone' story, and dozens of other alterations and additions and adulterations, were obviously made while in catholic hands.

So what source docs are you talking about? The NT was written in greek. Jesus and his merry men werent greek. The books were nevertheless written a gen or 2 after they all died.

40% of the works attributed to paul, werent written by him, and were added long after he died. Neither 1 peter or 2 peter were written by peter. They are forgeries.

So are you referring to original forgeries or forgeries after the fact?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 18, 2013
This is called wisdom. Research has shown children whose mothers stay at home do better in school and in life.
Ah. So they should be forced to stay at home and make babies like the islamists do.

Wisdom tells us that uneducated, idle women who have nothing to do but make babies usually die during childbirth. Wisdom tells us that cultures which insist upon this quickly grow beyond the point of stability, and these children begin to starve. And so they have little choice but to try to steal what they need - land and resources - from their neighbors, because their god NEVER gives them what he promises.

Wisdom tells us that this has to stop.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 18, 2013
Not at the urging or with the sanction of Luther
Oh no of course not. He just deemed catholics subhuman satanspawn and let nature take its course.
Socialists murder millions WITH the sanction of their leaders
Yes and we have already ESTABLISHED that godloving despots are no less effective at this, havent we?

Having god on your side has absolutely NO EFFECT on reducing depravity or immorality against ones enemies, when by all accounts it should PREVENT this altogether.

Why not ryggy? Why are xian soldiers every bit as vicious and barbaric as any pol pot or mao tse dung?

Serbian Atrocities in Kosovo
http://www.youtub...BQPUhGP8
Modernmystic
3 / 5 (10) Mar 18, 2013
Will the real Christianity stand up please?

It's called the New Testament.


Well the new testament was written between the 3rd and 4th century BCE...which is when Constantine usurped it.

I'll repeat the question...

Not at the urging or with the sanction of Luther. Socialists murder millions WITH the sanction of their leaders.


Agreed, but so do all States to one degree or another. Does the number murdered matter or is it the principle that's important? Is your issue with socialism one of degree or one of principle?
ryggesogn2
3.5 / 5 (13) Mar 18, 2013
Will the real Christianity stand up please?

It's called the New Testament.


Well the new testament was written between the 3rd and 4th century BCE...which is when Constantine usurped it.

I'll repeat the question...

Not at the urging or with the sanction of Luther. Socialists murder millions WITH the sanction of their leaders.


Agreed, but so do all States to one degree or another. Does the number murdered matter or is it the principle that's important? Is your issue with socialism one of degree or one of principle?


"This manuscript (P52) has generally been dated to ca. A.D. 125. This fact alone proved that the original Gospel of John was written earlier, viz. in the first century A.D., as had always been upheld by conservative scholars."
http://library.du...pts.html
ryggesogn2
3.5 / 5 (13) Mar 18, 2013
Does the number murdered matter or is it the principle that's important? Is your issue with socialism one of degree or one of principle?


Principle.

When the anti-religionists attack they usually consider themselves to be 'intellectuals', 'progressives', and don't seem to have any problem with socialism.
They get all kinds of bent out of shape when fascism, communism, corporatism are equated with socialism, which they are. All the 'isms' do not respect the individual's private property (which includes his liberty and free will).
We are seeing a fine example of socialism in action as the Cypriots are literally having their wealth plundered from banks.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 19, 2013
When the anti-religionists attack they usually consider themselves to be 'intellectuals', 'progressives', and don't seem to have any problem with socialism
Personally I have a big problem with lies, and the people who sell them as something worth killing and dying for.
-Your religion is based on lies as we have determined.
-Fascism is a lie used to turn whole countries into armies for the purpose of fighting wars.
-Socialism HAS no definition. In tribes, everyone shares. Those unable to hunt or gather are provided for by those who can.This is the basis of your own socialist religion is it not? Robin hood and jebus were both socialists by your own definition.
We are seeing a fine example of socialism in action as the Cypriots are literally having their wealth plundered from banks
I went into a bank america the other day and they wanted to charge me $6 to cash one of THEIR checks. This is capitalist plunder.

The tithe is plunder. In germany the state collects it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 19, 2013
And communism is a LIE. Communist regimes in reality have nothing to do with the democratic worker-controlled state. They are single-party dictatorships which instill martial law on the populace for the purpose of eradicating obsolete religionist cultures when no other method will work.

ALL communist regimes have done NOTHING but this. This is their form, this is their function. They eradicate these cultures through oppression, starvation, forced relocation, mass murder and mass incarceration.

And they use an obtuse pseudo-religious ideology as a disguise for convincing the masses to steal everything of value and give control of it to their oppressors.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 19, 2013
Socialism HAS no definition.

Of course it does.
You must not like it.
Robin hood and jebus were both socialists by your own definition.

It's not my definition. Socialism is state control of private property.
Jesus (who is a fictional character to Auto) had no interest in personal control of private property nor did he advocate for state control of private property. Jesus supported the right of the individual to control his property.
Robin Hood, a fictional character, was not a socialist. He recovered state plundered wealth and returned it to its owners. According to the legend, Robin Hood was a knight and has his own property plundered.
I went into a bank america the other day and they wanted to charge me $6 to cash one of THEIR checks.


I didn't know BoA was the ONLY bank in the world where one can cash a check. I belong to several credit unions and have never paid a fee to get my money.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 19, 2013
Jesus...had no interest in personal control of private property
-According to your personal, tailor-made imaginary friend perhaps. According to the official book he wrote:

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." matt19:21

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." matt19:25

-He was pretty clear on this. Worldly possessions corrupt your soul.

"For everything in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--comes not from the Father but from the world." 1john2:16

-Sadly however,

"Of the Johannine literature, Revelation bears the least grammatical similarity to the Gospel. Many modern scholars hold that the Apostle John wrote none of these texts."

"Numerous modern scholars dispute that these works were by the same person."

-ie, forgeries.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 19, 2013
Robin Hood, a fictional character, was not a socialist. He recovered state plundered wealth and returned it to its owners.
No the poor never HAD wealth nor any way to generate it. It was exclusively for capitalist barons and monopolists.
I didn't know BoA was the ONLY bank in the world where one can cash a check. I belong to several credit unions and have never paid a fee to get my money.
A company sent me a BoA check. I tried to cash it at a BoA bank and they were going to charge me $6 to do so. This is plunder not unlike on cyprus.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 19, 2013
nor did he advocate for state control of private property.
So let me repeat:

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." matt19:25

-Kingdom of god. The thing that your hebrews rebelled against when they demanded a king. The kingdom of god is what judo-xians want for THIS life, here on THIS planet. Lust for worldly possessions is what is PREVENTING this.

"He who loves gold will not be justified, and he who pursues money will be led astray by it. Many have come to ruin because of gold, and their destruction has met them face to face. It is a stumbling block to those who are devoted to it, and every fool will be taken captive by it" (Sir. 31: 5-7)

-In the kingdom of god only god the Commander in Chief of YOU owns anything. HE is the state.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 19, 2013
-He was pretty clear on this. Worldly possessions corrupt your soul.

Not really, but socialists like to use this to justify more plunder.
No the poor never HAD wealth nor any way to generate it.

Of course they had wealth. They had themselves, but the state (barons, etc.) plundered what the created.

A company sent me a BoA check. I tried to cash it at a BoA bank and they were going to charge me $6 to do so. This is plunder not unlike on cyprus.

Go to a different bank.

On Cyprus, the tax is NOT from the Cyprus govt or from the banks and there is NO choice.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 19, 2013
In the kingdom of god only god the Commander in Chief of YOU owns anything. HE is the state.

You think the Bible is fiction but you like to use it justify socialism.
"Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
". Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so."
Genesis
ryggesogn2
3.5 / 5 (13) Mar 19, 2013
" The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.'

21 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'"
Mathew 25

""This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights:...He will TAKE the best of YOUR fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will TAKE a tenth of YOUR grain and of YOUR vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. ...He will TAKE a tenth of YOUR flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day."
1 Samuel 8
Note the possessive pronoun 'YOUR' God used to describe the property a king (state) would plunder.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 19, 2013
Go to a different bank
Why should I? The check is from THEIR bank. They should be forced to honor it, for the FULL AMOUNT, dont you think?
You think the Bible is fiction
I KNOW the bible is fiction. I have given you ample evidence for this.
And it was so.
-Except that the EVIDENCE which is amply available in this world, which the god who supposedly WROTE these words created, tells us it simply didnt happen this way.

So what do we believe... the world or a conspicuously faulty book? The more we learn about the world, the more faulty your book appears. Why is this so?
21 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant!
Well as I have indicated, the book is faulty. It contradicts itself in many places. Joseph and pharoah conspired to steal the wealth of all of egypt. But no matter, they were pagans.
God used to describe the property a king (state) would plunder
Prophets instead of kings. Who would only be stealing for your god in the same way.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 19, 2013
"Cyprus has become the latest eurozone nation to apply for a bailout amid a financial crisis linked to debt defaults in Greece. The Mediterranean island has a huge banking sector and its public debt is expected to match GDP within the next decade. Proposals to tax existing bank deposits as part of a rescue package have alarmed investors." http://edition.cn...pt=hp_t4

What's happening in Cyprus is typical socialist plunder. Socialist govts like Greece, Cyprus, Spain, etc. spend too much, kill economic growth and then wonder why they are bankrupt.
Like Dillenger said, he robbed banks because that's were the money is. Trouble is, ALL banks are controlled in one way or another by their govts so any failures of the banks are really the failures of the govt.
When the people can't trust the state to protect their wealth, they will create ways to protect it themselves.
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 19, 2013
I KNOW the bible is fiction. I have given you ample evidence for this.

Then why do YOU use it to justify socialism?
Why should I? The check is from THEIR bank. They should be forced to honor it, for the FULL AMOUNT, dont you think?


Forced by whom?
Go to different bank.
And because of many new govt regulations on banks, they start charging more fees.
But the govt regulations that control banks are not at fault?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Mar 19, 2013
Samuel was a prophet and a priest. The israelites served Levites and kohanim in exactly the same way they did kings. Tithes instead of taxes. Priests lived off the burnt offerings from the people. Before the kings, it was prophets who directed their people against their enemies. No difference.

But as I say, this is nuances in descriptions of fictional characters. Evidence tells us there were never 2M jews in goshen, nor did any travel for 40 years through sinai and the levant thoroughly occupied by garrisoned egyptian soldiers, nor did they destroy any of the cities the book says they did, nor were they taken captive the way the book says they did.

It just didnt happen.

And so discussing why fictional prophets and kings might have said or did anything, is pointless.
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 19, 2013
And so discussing why fictional prophets and kings might have said or did anything, is pointless.

But you are the one using the Bible to justify socialism.

As for BoA, render unto BoA what is BoA's. The check belongs to BoA so they get to decide what to charge to exchange their check for currency.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Mar 19, 2013
Go to different bank.
I dont have access to my bank here. Any third party bank will charge me to cash it, unless of course I open an account.

"A cheque...is a document that ORDERS a payment of money from a bank account. The person writing the cheque, the drawer, usually has a current account or checking account where their money was previously deposited. The drawer writes the various details... ordering their bank, known as the drawee, to pay that person or company THE AMOUNT OF MONEY STATED."

-Think I can get a class action thing going?
And because of many new govt regulations on banks, they start charging more fees
No, they CAN because of lack of regs. BoA found yet another loophole for soaking their clients. This is how capitalism works. Passing more regs only makes banks more adept at circumventing them.

Why were priests allowed to eat the offerings meant for their god? Was this a loophole as well, or was it actually the reason for burnt offerings in the first place?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Mar 19, 2013
But you are the one using the Bible to justify socialism.
Fiction to justify fiction? Its done all the time. 'Of the people, by the people, for the people... liberty and justice for all...' These exact words can be found in communist and fascist manifestos. They all say the same things, just like all your holy books.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 19, 2013
yet another loophole for soaking their clients. This is how capitalism works. Passing more regs only makes banks more adept at circumventing them.


Sounds like a good reason to eliminate regulations, dissolve the Federal Reserve and end the state control of money.
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 19, 2013
But you are the one using the Bible to justify socialism.
Fiction to justify fiction? Its done all the time. 'Of the people, by the people, for the people... liberty and justice for all...' These exact words can be found in communist and fascist manifestos. They all say the same things, just like all your holy books.

So why do you support socialism if it is fiction?
"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." Bastiat
ryggesogn2
3.4 / 5 (15) Mar 19, 2013
the wife should stay at home and look after the affairs of the household

"Children raised in two-parent households are more likely to go to college, more likely to be employed, and more likely to earn a high wage. The rise of unwed mothers might be logical for many of these women. But there is too much evidence that it deepens the divide between the haves and have-nots in America."
http://www.theatl.../274111/
kochevnik
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 19, 2013
Sounds like a good reason to eliminate regulations, dissolve the Federal Reserve and end the state control of money.
I agree about the FED. But without the state, who will control the money Ryggie?
DarkHorse66
2 / 5 (4) Mar 20, 2013
the wife should stay at home and look after the affairs of the household

"Children raised in two-parent households are more likely to go to college, more likely to be employed, and more likely to earn a high wage. The rise of unwed mothers might be logical for many of these women. But there is too much evidence that it deepens the divide between the haves and have-nots in America."
http://www.theatl.../274111/

@ryggs: If you are expecting the woman to stay at just so that she can take care of everybody else...sounds like you just want the maid/nanny/mother-substitute/bed-bunny package without having to pay for it. Perhaps you are the kind of person who expects all of those things (except the bed-bunny) from your own mother and then transfers those expectations to your wife? I certainly don't. Here is a novel...cont
DarkHorse66
2.6 / 5 (5) Mar 20, 2013
cont...idea: instead of the husband going out to work, while wifey drudges at home, why not have the wife go out to work while hubby wipes baby's bottom & pushes the vacuum cleaner. Especially if she has the better qualifications or earns the better money. The truth is too, that these days, BOTH partners in a couple often NEED to go out to work, to make ends meet. Not everybody has the brains or the desire to GET the education for those high wages(not to mention the money it costs) Regardless of what you think, men &women are as entitled as each other, to choose not to submit to someone else, esp if it is merely on account of their gender. I find it funny too, that you are advocating that one gender stays home(for the convenience of the other), but speak about 'children'.Shouldn't it be 'boys' who get educated for earning that 'high wage'? Afterall, those pesky girls, who are only good enough to 'serve' the male, don't really need educating -if they aren't actually going to be..cont
DarkHorse66
2 / 5 (4) Mar 20, 2013
cont...working,do they?I don't care that you are using a quote, you have endorsed its content for the purposes of this discussion.Often such men who want to be looked after like that, are just trying to avoid growing up &maturing enough to take on responsibility for themselves.Perhaps it's time you stopped giving men a bad name by advocating returning to the 'good ol years',just so that you can justify your paternalistic &caveman attitude(apologies to any real cavemen)It is also a powertrip for the person in a position ofpower &religion is the worst justification of all here(or anywhere)Perhap it is time you grew up &did your own dishes.Or scrubbed out your own toilet bowl.I am a believer in equality,incl. of the sexes(DON'T make the mistake of thinking that being equal means being the same)&thatyour kind of attitude belongs to history of the knuckle-dragging kind.I think you know that I don't normally speak from a personal pt.of view.But your misogyny is too breathtaking.Regards,DH66
DarkHorse66
2 / 5 (4) Mar 20, 2013
Men & women ARE different.But the does NOT mean that they are unequal.Together, they are the two halves of the human race.Your patriarchal attitude is the product of patriarchal societies, stemming from patriarchal deities.Despite many attempts to justify otherwise(&usually with the same patriarchal teachings),this is NOT a 'natural order'.There have been many societies where men were not exclusively in charge.I don't have the book with me right now(I'm at uni, not online at home)but it has a very nice chapter that gives many eg's &I will be happy to bring it in, in the next couple of days &use it to find articles online to post.In case you don't know the difference between 'same'&'equal',here is a simple example:I have 2 fifty cent coins & one dollar bill.Are they the same?No, absolutely not. The coins are metal, the bill is paper.But they ARE equal.Why?They each add up to one dollar&are thus worth the same amount.They buy the same item;&they are both fully legal tender.RegardsDH66
ryggesogn2
3.4 / 5 (15) Mar 20, 2013
Sounds like a good reason to eliminate regulations, dissolve the Federal Reserve and end the state control of money.
I agree about the FED. But without the state, who will control the money Ryggie?


What do you mean, 'control'? Who should print it? Or if you use precious metals, who will certify quality and mass?
Somalians control their money. The only accept one denomination note that costs a few US pennies to print, and that is its value. Anyone could print up their own, but its value is the cost of printing.
Who controls the value of money now, govts that print too much or too little and govts that set interest rates. Why should govts control, and continue to inflate, the value of money?
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 20, 2013
sounds like you just want the maid/nanny/mother-substitute/bed-bunny package without having to pay for it.


Darky, hit a nerve?
The original point was Auto asserted Martin Luther said women should be at home caring for household. I said their is wisdom their and the Atlantic article concurs.

Men can't bear children.

Many here are so worried about the survival of the human species, but if women don't have children, and if those children are not raised well, the human species declines. We see that happening in Japan and in Russia.
So what's wrong if women DO want to say home, have children and take care of them?
Is that why so many 'liberal' women hated Sarah Palin? She chose to have children and a career? (And she is attractive.)
DarkHorse66
1 / 5 (1) Mar 20, 2013
"Anyone could print up their own, but its value is the cost of printing."
And who determines or controls that? You need agreement on the worth of something. Don't say 'market forces'. That is determined as much by a government's fiscal policy as it might be by Joe anonymous. The government has more of a hand in regulating that too, more than you think. Regards,DH66
DarkHorse66
3 / 5 (6) Mar 20, 2013
"Darky, hit a nerve?"
Yes. But not where you think.
"Men can't bear children"
Of course not. But that doesn't mean that they can't raise them, and do a proper job, as well as a woman can. (and a man can still adopt) Or have you been too afraid of the smell of a dirty nappy....
"So what's wrong if women DO want to say home, have children and take care of them?"
Absolutely nothing. If it is fully their choice and not the husband or society trying to dictate.
Sentence can be rewritten and be just as valid:
"So what's wrong if men DO want to say home, have children and take care of them?"
"..if women don't have children, and if those children are not raised well.."
Um, how do you raise children that you don't have...
Also, there is more than one way of raising a child well, including by a male. As for single vs couple. It is just as possible to raise a child well, on your own; as it is to screw it up as a couple. Many neglected children have both parents there. Think about that one...cont
DarkHorse66
2.7 / 5 (7) Mar 20, 2013
cont... "Is that why so many 'liberal' women hated Sarah Palin? She chose to have children and a career? (And she is attractive.)"
No it's not.I have spoken(or laughed)with many people about her(both male & female)The general consensus is:
She was a self-styled pitbull(her words: hockeymoms were pitbulls with lipstick &she was proud to be one,she said at a hockey game)& so uneducated that(if memory serves me correctly)she was clueless about the whereabouts of prominent countries that the US was at war with.But she knew where Russia was:"I can see Russia from my house."She was also too reminiscent of George 'Dblya' or 'redneck' Bush.That kind of a president does too much damage in the longrun.Ah yes,then there was also the double standard.She spouted plenty about marriage before sex,but had/has a young daughter who is a single mother.Somehow, she missed/ignored the obviousy conflicting bit of those circumstances.Attractiveness is NOT a substitute for brains.Neither is brawn ;)CheersDH66
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 20, 2013
Or have you been too afraid of the smell of a dirty nappy....

I was 8 years old when my mom had my two brothers. I changed their cloth diapers and put them in the diaper pail to soak.
I cleaned out pig pens, dairy barn gutters, etc for several years. We have two boys and I changed their diapers and wiped their butts.
I can wash my own clothes, clean the house, etc.

You need agreement on the worth of something. Don't say 'market forces'.

That is what market forces DO, determine the value of things.
Looked at housing prices lately?
The numbers that represent money are manipulated by the state for their benefit. Inflation is an oversupply of money that benefits the state. They can pay back their debt with cheaper money.
It is just as possible to raise a child well, on your own; as it is to screw it up as a couple.

Many things are possible. Data shows the reality are not the exceptions.
So why attack what is most likely to succeed?
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 20, 2013
he was clueless about the whereabouts of prominent countries that the US was at war with

I doubt that as here son is in the military. And she knows how to hunt and fish.
Joe Biden, the moron VP tells women to fire a shotgun through a door or in the air to defend themselves.
I would take Palin as a VP over a moron like Biden any day.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 20, 2013
.Ah yes,then there was also the double standard.

It must be nice to be a 'liberal' and have NO standards.
Barney Frank's boyfriend can use Barney's house to prostitute himself or Gary Studds can have have sex with male interns and Bill Clinton can have a BJ in the Oval office by an intern, and take advantage of women his entire career, and all this is quite acceptably to 'liberals' with no standards, (except that socialism must be forced upon the world).
But woe be to anyone who has standards, and tries to live up to them, and fails. They are soundly condemned by the 'tolerant' 'liberal', but forgiven as being human by Christians.
kochevnik
2.6 / 5 (10) Mar 20, 2013
Sounds like a good reason to eliminate regulations, dissolve the Federal Reserve and end the state control of money.
I agree about the FED. But without the state, who will control the money Ryggie?
@Ryggie What do you mean, 'control'? Who should print it? Or if you use precious metals, who will certify quality and mass?
Somalians control their money. The only accept one denomination note that costs a few US pennies to print, and that is its value.
Oh then you're for the precious metals standard. Your only problem is how to repay loans at interest when there's a fixed supply of precious metals. With a fixed supply there will always be debtors who are late with payments. In old Europe the barons would drop debtors ten meteres from a rope onto the hard cobblestones of the square, thereby releasing the gold back into circulation. What is your mechanism for growth? Somali is an imploding economy so growth is not an issue there
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (11) Mar 20, 2013
Many here are so worried about the survival of the human species, but if women don't have children, and if those children are not raised well, the human species declines. We see that happening in Japan and in Russia
Back during our formative years, the village raised the child. For 1000s of gens high tropical birthrates along with high attrition rates meant large families and vibrant communities.

We evolved in this context. Mothers often ended their lives in childbirth, and fathers often never returned from the battlefield. Children were often raised by relatives, neighbors, and siblings. Families were amorphous and transient things.

Ryggys few dozen gens of religion-enforced structure does not make it ideal as we have not had time to adapt to it. We HAVE in the meantime eliminated most all natural attritive elements which kept our numbers in check.
cont>
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (11) Mar 20, 2013
Tropical repro rates in conjunction with low attrition means that we are forced to limit our growth. Religion-based cultures designed to maximize growth are the worlds greatest threat.

Religions dominated western culture up until only a few gens ago. Their aggressive growth rates depended on large families produced by women who were allowed to do little else but make and raise babies. This country was rapidly filled in this context. This is where ryggy gets his ideas about family and morality.

Today however, the west can no longer sustain this sort of growth. The best way to restrict growth is to give women something else to do with their lives.

Everything is beautiful in its own time ryggy. There is a Time to embrace and a Time to refrain. Child development may suffer somewhat from growing up in small families, but children would suffer much more from malnutrition and and terror of constant war.

Your large healthy families inevitably lead to what we see throughout the middle east.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (11) Mar 20, 2013
Why is it your gods and godmen are always conquerors ryggy? Even jesus was the consummate revolutionary. He came to conquer the hearts and minds of the people, and by doing so he fully intended to DESTROY families.

21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death."

34 "...I did not come to bring peace, but a sword...37 "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." matt10

-All your notions of large families and unrestricted growth come from the OT. Jehovah demanded conquest using large armies. Jesus preached revolution with proselytism. And what is a revolution without martyrs?

Martyrdom, destruction of the aggressive hebrew culture based on maximizing growth... Jesus was there to REDUCE growth. Lets not forget celibacy, monasteries and nunneries. Reduced gentile pops also benefited rome.
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 20, 2013
Even jesus was the consummate revolutionary.

Revolutions against tyranny and oppression are not bad.
the west can no longer sustain this sort of growth.

Yes, it can. But fertility rates ARE falling around the world so don't worry, only the Mormons, Muslims and Catholics will be reproducing in large numbers.
Somali is an imploding economy

Not compared to its socialist neighbors.
then you're for the precious metals standard.

What 'standard'? If people want to use grams of gold or silver or any other metal, that's ok. Somalia's currency is working for them.
What is needed is money that can't be devalued by a govt. Rome devalued gold coins by shaving off the edges. Coins have serrated edges for that reason, to identify if they have been shaved. But coins today have no intrinsic value so that is irrelevant.
Govts control the money so they can control their people.
ryggesogn2
3 / 5 (16) Mar 20, 2013
""for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe."
http://blogs.stan...h-faith/

In the movie Constantine, John is taking with Gabriel about going to heaven. Since John had already been to hell he KNEW heaven and hell existed so faith was not possible for John. Only self sacrifice earned his way to heaven.

The ENTIRE theme of the Bible is faith. For thousands of years a major world religion has promoted faith.
Why does God want humans to develop faith?
Modern atheists contend humans don't need faith in anything, yet there is still SO much humans do not know or understand about the universe, about life, consciousness ,etc. Those who follow scientism have faith they will eventually know all, and be God.
ryggesogn2
3.4 / 5 (17) Mar 20, 2013
Philosophers like Gene Roddenberry tried to address the human condition comparing humans with rational Vulcans, androids, borg and more irrational Klingons.
I have read a key feature of humans is their ability for abstraction. To be able to anticipate and plan ahead. And that requires a measure of faith in one's understanding of the basis for the abstraction.
The Jews are some of the most intelligent people in the world so why would they promote faith?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 20, 2013
Revolutions against tyranny and oppression are not bad
Not according to the forgers who wrote 1 and 2 Peter:

"13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God's slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor."

-More good evidence that the books were written BY rome, FOR rome eh?
Yes, it can. But fertility rates ARE falling around the world so don't worry, only the Mormons, Muslims and Catholics will be reproducing in large numbers
-And the west is configured to absorb only the best and the brightest of the overflow.
cont>
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 20, 2013
This is why indigene pop growth has been restricted, to accommodate a larger influx than ever before. But no, pops in many areas have been growing far faster than expected and are doing far more damage than anticipated. This is due to religion.
http://phys.org/n...nds.html
http://phys.org/n...ple.html

-We are fast running out of food, clean water, and space.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 20, 2013
In the movie Constantine, John is taking with Gabriel about going to heaven.
...A fictional account about fictional characters and fictional superbeings. I guess the writers could infer absolutely anything they wanted to eh?
Since John had already been to hell he KNEW heaven and hell existed so faith was not possible for John. Only self sacrifice earned his way to heaven
...like presupposing the existance of a place where the most peaceful and kindest and lovingest god of all, would send people to be tortured for eternity just because they couldnt believe in him, because the book he wrote happened to be chock FULL of easily disprovable and embarrassingly inane LIES.

What a beast. What a MONSTER.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 20, 2013
The ENTIRE theme of the Bible is faith. For thousands of years a major world religion has promoted faith. Why does God want humans to develop faith?
-Because the people who made him up, needed the people whom they ruled over to do things that they wouldnt normally do; like suffer and starve, and fight in wars against strangers. And so they needed to have loving gods who would torture them for eternity (but usually in real life) if they didnt obey.
Modern atheists contend humans don't need faith in anything, yet there is still SO much humans do not know or understand about the universe, about life, consciousness ,etc. Those who follow scientism have faith they will eventually know all, and be God
If the god who wrote your books really wanted thinking people to believe in them ryggy, he would have used them to describe the world as it actually IS.

The more absurd the story, the easier it is to discern who is domesticated enough to fall for that crap, and who is not.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 20, 2013
The Jews are some of the most intelligent people in the world so why would they promote faith?
ALL the jews...ALL promote faith. Can you recognize the insidiousness of religious bigotry at work ryggy?
ENTIRE theme of the Bible is faith
Thats right. Who can believe without evidence, and who cannot? See, its a test. Kids are taught not to think from birth. If you question the holy book, you get a spanking.

This creates a mindset of not questioning authority. The more absurd the dogma is, the better. By the time a person is an adolescent they are fully prepared to go off to war and slaughter innocents just like joshua did, because god tells them to.

THIS is called DOMESTICATION. It equates to the dog who will stare crosseyed and motionless at the biscuit on his nose until his handler tells him its ok to eat.

Humans have been domesticated for their own good and for the good of the planet. They have threatened it for 1000s of years.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 20, 2013
"17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor."

-How much CLEARER could it possibly be ryg? It says so right in your BOOK.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 20, 2013
So the atheist won't, or cant' understand the importance of faith to humans.
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 20, 2013
"To exemplify their theory, Cohran and Harpending – neither of whom is Jewish - set out to explain the unusually high IQs of Ashkenazi Jews, Jews of European descent.

While the average IQ of Europeans is 100, the average Jew of European descent earns an IQ score of 107.5 to 115, making an Ashkenazi Jew almost 6 times as likely to be a genius as a non-Jewish European. In a 2005 paper published by Cochran and Harpending entitled "Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence", the pair notes "During the 20th century, [Jews] made up about 3% of the US population but won 27% of the US Nobel science prizes and 25% of the ACM Turing awards. They account for more than half of world chess champions."

http://www.israel...ScnebWHc
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (14) Mar 20, 2013
Darkie:
"All Three Networks Ignore Harry Reid Connecting Marine Deaths to Sequester Cuts

Read more: http://newsbuster...O7nGQNaO
"
Where are your attacks on stupid 'liberal' politicians?

Given your terminology, I suspect you could be British, and UK has its share of stupid 'liberals'.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 20, 2013
So the atheist won't, or cant' understand the importance of faith to humans.
Yeah. Its like any other drug. It makes you feel good but is in essence evil. It is a poor substitute for reality.

What is the importance of faith to you besides making you feel good?
kochevnik
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 21, 2013
@Ryggie So the atheist won't, or cant' understand the importance of faith to humans.
Atheists have the longest marriages. Much longer than your 'faith based' union that is founded upon fairy tales
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 21, 2013
So the atheist won't, or cant' understand the importance of faith to humans.
Yeah. Its like any other drug. It makes you feel good but is in essence evil. It is a poor substitute for reality.

What is the importance of faith to you besides making you feel good?


Isn't faith required for abstraction?
If reality is all, then every equation use to model the 'real' world must be rejected by Auto and the the atheists because it cannot ever account for reality.

Max Planck, the father of quantum mechanics:

"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: Ye must have faith. It is a quality which the scientist cannot dispense with. "

Modernmystic
3.3 / 5 (7) Mar 21, 2013
Darky, hit a nerve?


Well if you didn't he obviously did...

So what's wrong if women DO want to say home, have children and take care of them?


Fine if they do, I think the point you're EVADING here is what if they DON'T?

Is that why so many 'liberal' women hated Sarah Palin? She chose to have children and a career? (And she is attractive.)


No I think they disliked her politics and her inability to articulate herself in an intelligent manner...kind of like George Bush...
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 21, 2013
No I think they disliked her politics and her inability to articulate herself in an intelligent manner...kind of like George Bush...

Unlike the cogent, intelligent wisdom of Vice President Joe Biden?

So obviously stupidity and 'liberalism' are quite acceptable to 'liberal' women and men.

Palin was elected mayor, appointed to the state oil commission, defeated an incumbent Republican governor in a primary and was elected governor by the citizens of Alaska. And, has five children, one with Downs Syndrome she refused to abort. And she can hunt and fish.
Obviously 'liberal' feminists (that's a redundant term) would rather be like the helpless law student Sandra Fluke who can't afford birth control.
Modernmystic
2.6 / 5 (5) Mar 21, 2013
Unlike the cogent, intelligent wisdom of Vice President Joe Biden?


When did I mention Joe Biden? Or is it your well considered opinion that two inept communicators on either side of the aisle make a valid point?

So obviously stupidity and 'liberalism' are quite acceptable to 'liberal' women and men.


The only obvious thing here (which you are so brilliantly demonstrating) is that party line politics and sheepish behavior with respect to such is alive and well in America.

Obviously 'liberal' feminists (that's a redundant term) would rather be like the helpless law student Sandra Fluke who can't afford birth control.


How is that obvious. Please explain...
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 21, 2013
Isn't faith required for abstraction?
What is the importance of abstraction to you besides making you feel good?
every equation use to model the 'real' world must be rejected by Auto and the the atheists because it cannot ever account for reality
Ah I see. 'Abstraction' to you means abstract religionist concepts like 'soul' and 'immanence' and 'immaculate conception' and 'resurrection' etc which have no basis in reality ie theyre imaginary, bogus, fake, phony.

A maintenance manual describing how your subaru works is not an abstraction in that sense.

It occurred to me that even though religion is unscientific in that it is immune to evidence and thus explains nothing, it is evident that religions evolved according to scientific principals.

Religions responded to evidence of their effectiveness by borrowing from other religions, and by discarding what proved to be superfluous. They were 'evolved' by design. The best conceived, ie the most virulent, are the only ones left.
kochevnik
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 21, 2013
@ryggie Isn't faith required for abstraction?
No more than faith is required for an optic illusion. But drugs were required to be faithful. Notice the many statues at the Vatican which have poppy pods attached to sceptres or engraved in the moldings. Your bible is nothing more than junkies writing about their drug trips

Without drugs, organized religion is dying

Also, you dodged the fact that atheists have the longest marriages
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 21, 2013
The science of sociopolitics created your religion for you ryggy. What worked best at managing populations is what was emphasized.

Todays religions are pragmatic, efficient, and focused in their abstractions. They employed obvious expediencies like incorporating the holidays and heros of their competitors so as to make conversion easier. You know, the trinity, mary earth mother, solstice/equinox.

Islam was only a little more efficient and streamlined. It no longer needed those particular gimmicks, opting instead for anti-icon and anti-godman in order to attract jews and eastern orthodox, so they could absorb great swaths of the eastern roman empire and the middle east.

Islam is the most dumbed-down version of monotheiism to date, and the most scientifically-derived. Except for jinns and mohammad flying to jerusalem before going to heaven just so they could put a mosque on the non-existant ruins of herods temple. Those are a little hokey.

No, I am surprised you dont embrace it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 21, 2013
Here are some examples of the stuporific, psychopathic potential of religion
http://www.youtub...U-DislkI
http://www.youtub...ure=fvwp
http://www.youtub...24KC3LzU
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 21, 2013
What is the importance of abstraction to you besides making you feel good?

"Abstract thought is the contemplation of things beyond what we can sense.

"This is not to say that our mental faculties sprang fully formed out of nowhere," Hauser wrote. "Researchers have found some of the building blocks of human cognition in other species. But these building blocks make up only the cement foot print of the skyscraper that is the human mind. The evolutionary origins of our cognitive abilities thus remain rather hazy. Clarity is emerging from novel insights and experimental technologies, however.""
http://www.lifesl...ies.html
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 21, 2013
When did I mention Joe Biden?

You didn't. But why not? He is dumber than an ashtray AND is is the Vice President so intellectual ability, or any ability, is not high the list for 'liberals'
How is that obvious. Please explain...

Fluke was the poster child of 'liberal' women who need a govt sugar daddy to pay for their birth control. She was all over the news before the election.
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 21, 2013
Of course, govt welfare is ALWAYS the answer regardless of efficacy.

"The solution? More government programs "to help 20-something men and women figure out new ways to put the baby carriage after marriage."

Fagan disagrees.

"Government is incompetent in social policy," Fagan said. "That is very clear.

"The competence lies within the family, within the church and within the school," Fagan said. "They are the three people-forming institutions."
http://cnsnews.co...-mothers
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 21, 2013
Abstract thought is the contemplation of things beyond what we can sense
Funny, I google this sentence and I get a long list of religionist websites. Hard to say what the origin is.

Lets try the dictionary.

ab·stract
adj.
1. Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.
2. Not applied or practical; theoretical.
3. Difficult to understand; abstruse: abstract philosophical problems.
4. Thought of or stated without reference to a specific instance: abstract words like truth and justice.
5. Impersonal, as in attitude or views.
6. Having an intellectual and affective artistic content that depends solely on intrinsic blahblahblah.

-A cat dreams abstractly when we can see his paws twitching as he sleeps. Scientists extrapolate possibilities from evidence and known theories. Religionists conjure abstractions they think will sell the best, as do script writers and PR people and politicians and philos.

In what sense are you using the word 'abstraction'?
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 21, 2013
"Combining materials to create a product that doesn't resemble the original ingredients and saving the concoction for later suggests people at the time were capable of abstract thinking, innovation and planning for the future.

These are among the mental abilities that many anthropologists say distinguished humans, Homo sapiens, from other hominids. Yet researchers have no agreed-upon definition of exactly what makes human cognition so special.
"Marean thinks symbolic thinking was a crucial change in the evolution of the human mind. "When you have that, you have the ability to develop language. You have the ability to exchange recipes of technology,"

Read more: http://www.smiths...OCCMZBw6
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
Modernmystic
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 21, 2013
You didn't. But why not?


No, no ryg the question was WHY mention him. Re-read and catch up. You're trying to obfuscate and doge by saying in a sense that "two wrongs make a right" Palin is dumb as a post and so is Biden...now what point EXACTLY are you trying to make?

You asked why people didn't like Palin. To anyone without an obvious party blindness it's painfully obvious. That was my point, you brought up another example, but that doesn't negate mine simply because both are true...GET IT?

Fluke was the poster child of 'liberal' women who need a govt sugar daddy to pay for their birth control. She was all over the news before the election.


Was there an explanation in that morass of how that equates to liberal women wanting to be poor and helpless? It seems to me that if someone is poor and has few options liberals are glad that the government is there to help (which I don't necessarily agree with). How in THE HELL do you get anything else out of that?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 21, 2013
"Combining materials to create a product that doesn't resemble the original ingredients and saving the concoction for later suggests people at the time were capable of abstract thinking, innovation and planning for the future. These are among the mental abilities that many anthropologists say distinguished humans, Homo sapiens, from other hominids
Hogwash. Birds build nests. Rodents dig warrens. Squirrels bury nuts.

You religionists are desperate to find something which distinguishes us from animals by anything besides degree. But you have come up empty.

Abstract planning, anticipation, cooperation, communication in chimps.
http://www.youtub...EMy4Z_zM
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 21, 2013
You asked why people didn't like Palin. To anyone without an obvious party blindness it's painfully obvious.


The ONLY reason 'liberals' don't like Palin IS her politics.
Biden is much less intelligent, but 'liberals' LIKE him so any intelligence argument against Palin is specious.

Fluke wasn't poor. She was attending law school and complaining about not have the govt pay for her birth control.
Hogwash. Birds build nests. Rodents dig warrens. Squirrels bury nuts.

Sure, those are real things. A cave painting of a bison is an NOT a bison. It is an abstraction being used by the artist. What's real about any painting is ONLY the paint and canvas. Not the image.
kochevnik
1 / 5 (3) Mar 21, 2013
When did I mention Joe Biden?

You didn't. But why not? He is dumber than an ashtray AND is is the Vice President so intellectual ability, or any ability, is not high the list for 'liberals'
At least he's not trying to outsource the job of POTUS to a Canadian, as your conservaturd friends are planning

Out president has concluded that your government's global strategy is based upon insanity
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 21, 2013
A cave painting of a bison is an NOT a bison
It is a way of communicating info about a bison. Those chimps have similar ways of communicating info about those monkeys they intend to hunt. The dreaming cat is seeing images of the things he is chasing or being chased by.

Same thing. They only differ in degree of complexity not substance.
http://www.youtub...SGe7zSIc

-His planning is an abstraction. He studies tourists, anticipates their activity, imagines how to hit them from different vantage points, and prepares in advance to do so.
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 21, 2013
info about a bison


It is a poor substitute for reality.

have no basis in reality ie theyre imaginary, bogus, fake, phony.

The dreaming cat is seeing images of the things he is chasing or being chased by.
{Which are not real.}

Auto has a lot of faith in 'reality' which is subjective.
Trouble is humans can never know reality as our senses are limited and our tools are limited and can only observe an abstract portion of objective reality, assuming it exists.
ryggesogn2
3 / 5 (14) Mar 21, 2013
Biden, the gift that keeps on giving:

"Vice President Joe Biden incorrectly stated early today that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords had been "shot and mortally wounded":"
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (9) Mar 21, 2013
{Which are not real.}
As you point out, neither is your cave painting.
Auto has a lot of faith in 'reality' which is subjective. Trouble is humans can never know reality as our senses are limited and our tools are limited and can only observe an abstract portion of objective reality, assuming it exists
Are you retreating into philo bullshit mode now? How sad. Looks like I win again.
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (15) Mar 21, 2013
philo bullshit mode now

How do you prove objective reality?
kochevnik
2.1 / 5 (7) Mar 21, 2013
philo bullshit mode now
How do you prove objective reality?
By consensus
DarkHorse66
2.6 / 5 (5) Mar 22, 2013
"Isn't faith required for abstraction? If reality is all, then every equation use to model the 'real' world must be rejected by Auto and the the atheists because it cannot ever account for reality."
So, according to your own words, pure/theoretical maths would require faith?!?! A number on its own is an abstract quantity in its own right. Do you still need to count on your fingers or use physical objects to represent them.....? No faith required there.....or is there a god of numbers?
Cheers, DH66
DarkHorse66
2 / 5 (4) Mar 22, 2013
@ryggy: read these.
Would you REALLY want someone so unsavvy that they think that North Korea is an ALLY??
http://politicalh...p-10.htm
http://politicalh...alin.htm
http://www.brainy...lin.html
There is plenty more where that came from. Just google 'sarah palin'.
If you call that smart..(snigger, snigger!)
Happy reading! DH66 :}
There is plenty more where that came from. Just google 'sarah palin'.
If you call that smart..(snigger, snigger!)
Happy reading! DH66 :}
DarkHorse66
2.3 / 5 (3) Mar 22, 2013
Anybody know how to strangle this editor?? Or get it not to cut out links on a re-edit?
DH66
Estevan57
3.8 / 5 (16) Mar 22, 2013
@ryggesogn2 Mortally wounded means expected to die, which was likely in her case. Fatally wounded is the expected result of being mortally wounded. Biden was correct, this time.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 22, 2013
philo bullshit mode now

How do you prove objective reality?
You drop it on your foot. You go out and dig all over the holy land and find nothing but little villages and dust where great kingdoms were supposed to be. You read 1 and 2 peter and realize that they reference pauline epistles written long after peter died. Stuff like that.
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 22, 2013
philo bullshit mode now
How do you prove objective reality?
By consensus

Not very objective as every individual has their own reality, or heuristic.
"arithmetic was an heuristic! Arithmetic might only be an heuristic, but clearly it was a good and very necessary one. All the while I could not help wondering—"If arithmetic is in doubt, what is not?" Slowly, the phrase All is heuristic was born, and this discussion some thirty-six years later is the result."
http://www.me.ute...ory.html
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 22, 2013
"Consequently, the concept of engineering rationality is a bit of a misnomer; engineering intentionality is a more appropriate term. Design - in fact, all human behavior - is ultimately governed by motives, rather than reasons. Although common usage treats these two terms as virtually synonymous, the prevalence of the latter in both ordinary and philosophical discourse reflects an ancient prejudice that subordinates practice to theory and action to contemplation; i.e., willing to knowing. Since engineers exemplify willing, we should strive to resist and reverse this tendency.▪ "
http://www.struct...eID=1039

You go out and dig all over the holy land and find nothing but little villages and dust

"Troy is still being discovered today. "
http://www.cerhas...15b.html
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (13) Mar 22, 2013
Again, comparing Palin, elected mayor and governor, mother of 5, someone who can hunt and fish with Joe Biden:
"Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., fighting to salvage his Presidential campaign, today acknowledged ''a mistake'' in his youth, when he plagiarized a law review article for a paper he wrote in his first year at law school." http://www.nytime...p;src=pm
Sounds like a typical lawyer.
Biden barely practiced law before being elected to Congress so he is a professional, 'liberal' politician.
ryggesogn2
3.3 / 5 (12) Mar 22, 2013
"It's not even surprising anymore when the Vice President says something impolitic, is it? A week ago, during a White House St. Patrick's Day celebration, he briefly mourned the death of the Irish Prime Minister's mother, even though she was very much alive.

Read more: http://www.time.c...,00.html #ixzz2OIjhkkxk

"He paused, thinking about vice presidents he had known. 'I have a soft spot for Joe Biden,' he said. 'I like him. But he's dumb as an ashtray.'""
http://www.thebla...imbaugh/
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Mar 22, 2013
"Troy is still being discovered today. "
Troy isnt even in the bible ey? You should actually read it sometime I think.
ryggesogn2
3.2 / 5 (11) Mar 22, 2013
"Biden falsely claimed that he had "graduated with three degrees from college" (he had one degree), was "the outstanding student in the political science department" (he was in the bottom 26% of his class), had gone to law school "on a full academic scholarship" (he had no academic scholarship), and had graduated in the top half of his law school class (he was in the bottom 12%). Biden self-contradictorily defended himself by saying, "I've never gone around telling people things that aren't true about me." At the time, Johnny Carson joked that Biden had violated the first rule of politics: always lie about the future, but never the past. "
http://www.breitb...-in-1987
ryggesogn2
3.1 / 5 (12) Mar 22, 2013
"Troy is still being discovered today. "
Troy isnt even in the bible ey? You should actually read it sometime I think.

Never said it was.
Troy was a myth until it may have been discovered in 1870.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 23, 2013
The thing is, ryggy, that scads of archeologists both religious and secular have been digging at the holy sites for at least 100 years. You can imagine that religionists are most desperate for any solid evidence that Jews have an intrinsic right to reestablish Israel for instance.

They know where to dig and theyve become very good at dating strata and identifying artifacts. AND they have indeed found a great deal of evidence.

Alas this evidence tells them that other things were going on during the periods in question. Goshen was never occupied by 2M Jews. The exodus and the genocidal joshuan rampage could not have happened because the levant and Sinai were dotted with large Egyptian garrisons the whole time.

The 400 cities, towns, and villages supposedly razed by him show no signs of this. Jerusalem was a small hilltop village of the sort occupied by afghan warlords; NO kingdoms. Jericho was a ruin at the time. Etc.

EVIDENCE, and not the lack of it, tells us the bible is a lie.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 23, 2013
Troy was a myth until it may have been discovered in 1870
Troy is a reality. We know a great deal about the Trojans because of the evidence they left behind. Ahab, David, and Solomon left absolutely none.

No ruins or tablets like we found with the Hittites; no independent reliable descriptions of these great and powerful kingdoms like we have of the phoenicians and the cretans; nothing but a ton of contrary evidence which says that it was all a fabrication. Like Paul Bunyan or king Arthur or oz.

The only descriptions we find are from one single book which is itself full of errors, misconceptions. plagerized fables and gods, forgeries, and lies.

You may be willing to conclude that the book of Mormon or the Quran are fabrications but you insist that your own book (Protestant? Torah? Catholic? Eastern orthodox? Gnostic? Which??) is the complete, unabridged, and unalterable word of your own personal god even though the EVIDENCE should tell you it was made exactly the same way.
ryggesogn2
3 / 5 (12) Mar 23, 2013
Archeology is soooo easy:

"The archaeological team behind the discovery of the mortal remains of King Richard III after over five hundred years has been honoured by a leading archaeology magazine.

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...tml#jCp"

It only took 500 years to find the remains of a famous English king.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 23, 2013
Archeology is soooo easy:

"The archaeological team behind the discovery of the mortal remains of King Richard III after over five hundred years has been honoured by a leading archaeology magazine.

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...tml#jCp"

It only took 500 years to find the remains of a famous English king.
They had all of Britain to search. The key sites in the holy land are well known. They have been thoroughly excavated. Scientists know what went on there during the time of the bible and it was NOT what the bible says.
ryggesogn2
2.8 / 5 (13) Mar 23, 2013
"Two geologists think they know how the infamous biblical cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Graham Harris and Tony Beardow argue in the Quarterly Journal of Engineering Geology that the land near the Dead Sea on which the cities may have stood literally liquefied in an earthquake, swallowing them up ca. 1900 B.C. A similar event, in which loosely packed, waterlogged soils liquefy under seismic force, destroyed an area of nearly 30,000 square miles in China in 1920."
http://archive.ar...dom.html

"The Dead Sea constantly discharges asphalt, a feature very unusual to any lake. It spits up small pebbles of the black substance from its deep cracks. Asphalt coated figurines and bitumen coated Neolithic skulls from archaeological sites have been found. It is believed that this asphalt had been used to mummify Egyptians."
http://www.deadse...cts.html

"Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah"
ryggesogn2
2.8 / 5 (13) Mar 23, 2013
"Most natural bitumens contain sulfur and several heavy metals, such as nickel, vanadium, lead, chromium, mercury, arsenic, selenium, and other toxic elements.[citation needed] Bitumens can provide good preservation of plants and animal fossils."
"Natural deposits of asphalt/bitumen include lakes such as the Pitch Lake in Trinidad and Tobago and Lake Bermudez in Venezuela, Gilsonite, the Dead Sea,"
"In the ancient Middle East, the Sumerians used natural asphalt/bitumen deposits for mortar between bricks and stones, to cement parts of carvings, such as eyes, into place, for ship caulking, and for waterproofing.[1] The Greek historian Herodotus said hot asphalt/bitumen was used as mortar in the walls of Babylon.[15]"
http://en.wikiped.../Asphalt
"Since Biblical times the asphalt of the Dead Sea has been an important commodity for trade in the region, "
http://archives.d...0837.htm
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) Mar 23, 2013
"Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah"
So you give an example of a wholly natural occurance of which there is no mention other than in your book, which bible writers could possibly have chosen to exploit by lying about it to impress the rubes. Nice.

Paul bunyans big blue ox Babe dug the grand canyon because, well, its THERE isnt it?

There was most likely a flood along the southern shores of the mediterranean due to an earthquake or an exploding volcano, and so this is how pharoahs chariots got inundated by moses.

This is how your brain works.

Oh by the way there is absolutely reason to believe that sodom or gemorrah ever existed. NO mention anywhere else but in your book. NO archeological evidence whatsoever.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) Mar 23, 2013
Sounds like your mr harris can at times act toward colleagues in somewhat less than professional fashion.
http://www.tfmeta...m-harris

Also moses didnt part the red sea. He parted yam suph. How did you all get this wrong when its stated so right in your BOOK??
http://en.wikiped...Yam_Suph
barakn
3 / 5 (4) Mar 28, 2013
"The Dead Sea constantly discharges asphalt, a feature very unusual to any lake. It spits up small pebbles of the black substance from its deep cracks. Asphalt coated figurines and bitumen coated Neolithic skulls from archaeological sites have been found. It is believed that this asphalt had been used to mummify Egyptians." http://www.deadse...cts.html

"Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah"
So now you're trying to convince us the ancients were idiots that didn't know the difference between asphalt and sulfur?
CptNemo
5 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2013
This study supports my observation that people are becoming less dependent upon organized religions. Perhaps it is because of an increase in analytical thought, newsmedia coverage of misdeeds performed by religious leaders, or something else. Perhaps a combination of things. I think people should decide for themselves what they want rather than have it spoon-fed to them anyway.
Faith is a highly subjective issue and I doubt any two people believe exactly the same things. And I think a large majority of people tend to seek evidence (if they seek it at all) to support their conclusion rather than letting evidence point the way to a conclusion.
I'm agnostic and think that if deities exist, they are indifferent and therefore, irrelevant; but I also think that whatever people use to get by is fine as long as it does more good than harm.
ryggesogn2
2.6 / 5 (10) Apr 09, 2013
This study supports my observation that people are becoming less dependent upon organized religions.


"Religious institutions may find no takers in a few years, but a new University of Chicago survey has revealed private religious practices like prayer are actually on the rise."
""Americans' attitudes toward religion are growing more complex. While fewer people identify with a particular religion, belief in God remains high," said study author Tom W. Smith, Director of the General Social Survey at the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago."

Read more: Spirituality on the Rise Among Cosmopolitans, Religion Takes a Beating | Medindia http://www.medind...Q0jSl7tg
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2013
"The Dead Sea constantly discharges asphalt" - RyggTard

"Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah" - RyggTard

I'm not sure how anyone would logically connect tar bubbling up from a lake with sulfur falling from the sky.

I am however, shocked by the fact that RyggTard didn't claim that taxes caused sulfur to fall from the sky and that asphalt is in fact plant food.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2013
RyggTard's reference was written by Tanja in 2009.

"Spirituality on the Rise Among Cosmopolitans, Religion Takes a Beating" - RyggTard

RyggTard has no interest in reading his own references.

"Although belief in God remains strong, the survey found that 22 percent of people said they had never attended a religious service, compared with 9 percent in 1972."

The rest of his article pretty much corroborates what RyggTard is arguing against.

Idiot.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2013
"Since Biblical times the asphalt of the Dead Sea has been an important commodity for trade in the region," - RyggTard

And never has it been referred to as "Sulfur".

Until you just did, while frothing at the mouth over your dead God.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2013
"Two geologists think they know how the infamous biblical cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Graham Harris..." - RyggTard

Isn't a geologist.

"Tony Beardow" - RyggTard

Isn't a geologist either. Although he does have a BSC in geology.

Having a BSc in Geology means that he has a basic understanding of the principles of geology, but no specific training or expertise. He operates at the level of comprehension of "novice".

This is still better than RyggTard's comprehension of science or Economics, which is essentially non-existent.

VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2013
"Since Biblical times the asphalt of the Dead Sea has been an important commodity for trade in the region," - RyggTard

And yet you claim that they couldn't distinguish it from sulfur.

Odd isn't it, how your own references and facts always seem to contradict your own claims.

You present us with a perfect reason why home schooling produces ReTards.