Russia meteor not linked to asteroid flyby

Feb 17, 2013
A meteor seen flying over Russia on Feb. 15 at 3:20: 26 UTC impacted Chelyabinsk. Preliminary information is that this object was unrelated to asteroid 2012 DA14, which made a safe pass by Earth today. Credit: Google Earth, NASA/JPL-Caltech

New information provided by a worldwide network of sensors has allowed scientists to refine their estimates for the size of the object that entered that atmosphere and disintegrated in the skies over Chelyabinsk, Russia, at 7:20:26 p.m. PST, or 10:20:26 p.m. EST on Feb. 14 (3:20:26 UTC on Feb. 15).

The estimated size of the object, prior to entering Earth's atmosphere, has been revised upward from 49 feet (15 meters) to 55 feet (17 meters), and its estimated mass has increased from 7,000 to 10,000 tons. Also, the estimate for energy released during the event has increased by 30 kilotons to nearly 500 kilotons of energy released. These new estimates were generated using new data that had been collected by five additional infrasound stations located around the world - the first recording of the event being in Alaska, over 6,500 kilometers away from Chelyabinsk. The infrasound data indicates that the event, from atmospheric entry to the meteor's airborne disintegration took 32.5 seconds. The calculations using the infrasound data were performed by Peter Brown at the University of Western Ontario, Canada.

"We would expect an event of this magnitude to occur once every 100 years on average," said Paul Chodas of 's Near-Earth Object Program Office at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "When you have a of this size we would expect a large number of meteorites to reach the surface and in this case there were probably some large ones."

The trajectory of the Russia meteor was significantly different than the trajectory of the asteroid 2012 DA14, which hours later made its of Earth, making it a completely unrelated object. The Russia meteor is the largest reported since 1908, when a meteor hit Tunguska, Siberia.

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katesisco
1 / 5 (10) Feb 17, 2013
Gas balls lobbed by the sun? Remember those spheres with tails in the sun's corona photographed by NASA? I propose a high energy profile makes E a target for these energy balls. Since the Tungusta event could not be precipitated by Earth energy (wait-- the nuclear tests?) perhaps it was a meteorite like our fly by that draws them?
Mayday
1 / 5 (5) Feb 17, 2013
Can anyone offer an explanation as to why the observed performance of the object bears only scant resemblance to these figures? The videos are very short, well short of anything like 30 seconds. My guess is it was quietly slowing in the high atmosphere far off, only to finally fall to its death in short burst. Never mind.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (10) Feb 17, 2013
The trajectory of the Russia meteor was significantly different than the trajectory of the asteroid 2012 DA14, which hours later made its flyby of Earth, making it a completely unrelated object.
Actually, if it was a satellite of asteroid 2012 DA14, its trajectory could appear quite different from the asteroid's, depending on where it was in its orbit around the asteroid when the meteor was captured by the earth.

There was an apparently smaller event over California, too.

http://abclocal.g...=8995699

Two relatively simultaneous coincidences seems unlikely.

guillaume_pussetto
2 / 5 (4) Feb 17, 2013
The calculated density of the meteorite is more than concrete and less than steel. On a 10000 tons bolid, how is that there are no remains to be found yet?
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (9) Feb 17, 2013
Yes. You are a genius.

"perhaps it was a meteorite like our fly by that draws them?" - Kate

Please contact your nearest newspaper and insist that they print your scientifican theory as son as possible so that the draw can be nullified with appropriate sucking.

Please put your genius to guess how much and what kind of sucking will be needed.

Come back when you have the answer in kilopascals.
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (9) Feb 17, 2013
"how is that there are no remains to be found yet?" - quil

Obviously because the moon men, funded by the illuminati, arrived early and beamed up all of the crash evidence.

There is no other explanation.
VendicarE
2.9 / 5 (8) Feb 17, 2013
VonTard is once again being completel innumerate.

The only way the two trajectories could be quite different is if the orbital velocity of the impacting meteorite around the asteroid were roughly the same as the speed of the combined system of meteor/asteroid.

We know the asteroid/meteor separation at the time of the impact was around a million kilometers and we know the mass of the asteroid is around 100,000 tonnes, and the mass of the meteor around 10,000 tonnes

So the force acting on the meteor by the asteroid is around 10E-14 Newtons, and impart an orbital speed of around 8mm per second.

So the the 500,000,000 mm/s velocity of the meteor could be deflected by around 10mm/s at right angles by the gravity of the flyby asteroid.

I don't think that most sane people believe that a difference of 1 part in 50 million makes much of a difference in velocity.

"Actually, if it was a satellite of asteroid 2012 its trajectory could appear quite different from the asteroid's" - UbVonTard

VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Feb 17, 2013
Your guess is wrong of course.

"My guess is it was" - Mayday

By just watching the video's and counting I was able to estimate that the speed of the thing as it was producing it's trail was around 8,000 kilometers per second.

The atmosphere is 100 kilometers thick, and the earth has a radius of 6,300 kilometers.

A trajectory tangential to some point on the earth surface can therefore pass through a maximum of squrt(6000 100**2-6000**2) kilometers = sqrt(121*10000) = 1100.

This represents roughly 110 seconds of flight time for the asteroid of which 11 seconds would be through the lower 10th.

On the other hand, if the asteroid came in at a 30' angle then the flight time through the atmosphere would be 20 seconds with 2 seconds through the lower 10th.

The 30' angle matches the observations, so the meteor experienced about 8 seconds in the earth's upper atmosphere where it is the least dense, and produces virtually no resistance.
cyberCMDR
5 / 5 (3) Feb 17, 2013
A good example of where correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Whether the events were linked or not, I'm glad they woke up some people to the fact that there is a universe outside of Earth that we need to be more aware of.

Anyone who dismisses this can just look at the Moon, where weather and erosion have not erased the marks of previous impacts. We are a bigger target than the Moon, yet we have few visible impact marks. This speaks to the age of the Earth (far more than 6000 years old), because if the Moon got all those pockmarks over 6000 years we should have been just as pummeled by space debris.
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (6) Feb 17, 2013
It should be clear by now that if you are innumerate like UbVonTard, you will lead and ignorant and innumerate life like UbVonTard.
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (9) Feb 17, 2013
The Republican position on Asteroid Deflection...

"Due to the Democrats' wasteful spending, our deficit has already risen to unprecedented levels. We can't keep borrowing money like this; it would be irresponsible. The American people are tired of it! If this asteroid deflection plan passes, our children and grandchildren will remember this moment as when their futures were forfeited. What what we really need to be doing is cutting spending and easing the tax burden on our corporations so they can keep on creating jobs like they've been doing these last few decades."
VendicarE
3 / 5 (10) Feb 17, 2013
"Look no meteor NASA. Just a bunch of stars like there always are. How convenient that the asteroid is only visible in the southern hemisphere now. How gullible do the Democrats think we are?" - Faux News Glenn Beck

"According to NASA, part of Kenya is supposed to be in the direct path of the asteroid. A coincidence? I think not. This is just more of Barack Hussein Obama's betrayal of America." - Republican Rush Limbaugh
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (5) Feb 17, 2013
The only way the two trajectories could be quite different is if the orbital velocity of the impacting meteorite around the asteroid were roughly the same as the speed of the combined system of meteor/asteroid.

We know the asteroid/meteor separation at the time of the impact was around a million kilometers and we know the mass of the asteroid is around 100,000 tonnes, and the mass of the meteor around 10,000 tonnes

So the force acting on the meteor by the asteroid is around 10E-14 Newtons, and impart an orbital speed of around 8mm per second.

So the the 500,000,000 mm/s velocity of the meteor could be deflected by around 10mm/s at right angles by the gravity of the flyby asteroid.

I don't think that most sane people believe that a difference of 1 part in 50 million makes much of a difference in velocity.
LOL. The Vendispambot confuses velocity with trajectory. LOL.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Feb 17, 2013
It should be clear by now that if you are innumerate like Uba, you will lead and ignorant and innumerate life like Uba.
LOL. Says the spambot which made no allowance for the spacetime curvature around the earth in regards to the trajectory of the meteor (supposing it was a satellite of the asteroid). LOL.

Gee, I wonder what might have happened had it been captured by the earth in any of an infinite number of relative positions?

Let's see, if it was captured parallel to latitude on one side of the earth, it might fall east to west ...on the other side, west to east ...or longitudinally south to north ...or north to south.

So, did I describe all possible degrees of freedom for this capture scenario? Yup.

Maybe Vendispambot needs more programming. LOL.
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (5) Feb 17, 2013
UbVonTard is free to select whatever initial conditions he likes for the position and and shape of his presumed "orbit" of the meteor around the asteroid.

"The Vendispambot confuses velocity with trajectory." - UbVonTard

He will never meaningfully produce a difference of more than one part in 50 million.

He is innumerate, scientifically illiterate, and mentally diseased.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (6) Feb 17, 2013
Uba is free to select whatever initial conditions he likes for the position and and shape of his presumed "orbit" of the meteor around the asteroid.
Yeah? How much are you willing to bet? LOL.
VendicarE
3.4 / 5 (5) Feb 17, 2013
UbVonTard now shows a new side of his scientific illiteracy by implying that relativistic effects will produce a significant part in the calculation of the path of a meteorite that is traveling at a mere 8 km per second. or roughly 1/50,000 the speed of light.

"made no allowance for the spacetime curvature around the earth" - UbVonTard

UbVonTard is Scientifically Illiterate, Innumerate, and Mentally Diseased.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Feb 17, 2013
I will bet you your life.

"Yeah? How much are you willing to bet?" - UbVonTard

"Gee, I wonder what might have happened had it been captured by the earth in any of an infinite number of relative positions?" - UbVonTard

Since it's velocity was greater than the escape velocity of the earth, it couldn't have been captured through gravitational effects.

And now of course UbVonTard is running away from his earlier claim that the meteor could have had a wide range of relative velocities if it were orbiting the passing asteroid.

At a speed of 8mm per second.

UbVonTard is numerically illiterate, scientifically illiterate and mentally diseased.

Zed123
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 17, 2013
Get a room you two....
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Feb 17, 2013
Two would go in. I would come out.
andyarok
3.3 / 5 (3) Feb 18, 2013
What would have happened if this meteorite (or a similar one) had hit the Asteroid. Wouldn't the impact be good enough to alter the trajectory by a considerable amount.
VendicarE
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 18, 2013
Yes, the trajectory would have been altered by a tiny amount.

Assuming the speeds are about the same and the densities are about the same and the estimates of the radius of the meteorite is 10 meters and the asteroid 150 meters and they are both spherical, and they impact at right angles then the change in angle would be atn((rm/ra)**3 = atn(1/15**3) = .016'

Lots of assumptions here, but they are all reasonable, given the question.

A more interesting question is what would have happened if the meteor had exploded closer to the ground.

If the height of the explosion had been half of what it was, then Cherblinsk would have been largely demolished. Half again and it would have been completely obliterated, along with everything else in a 20 to 30 kilometer diameter area.

PosterusNeticus
5 / 5 (6) Feb 18, 2013
The calculated density of the meteorite is more than concrete and less than steel. On a 10000 tons bolid, how is that there are no remains to be found yet?


Some fragments have in fact been recovered. BBC news has this:

"This meteorite is an ordinary chondrite, it is a stony meteorite which contains some 10% of iron. It is most likely to be named Chebarkul meteorite," -- Viktor Grohovsky, Urals Federal University.

As usual, there is no conspiracy. Just a lack of information and a tendency among the conspiracy theorists to grasp the most paranoia-laden interpretation possible.
Egleton
1 / 5 (2) Feb 18, 2013
Chicken Little was right. The Sky is Falling!!
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (4) Feb 18, 2013
Uba now shows a new side of his scientific illiteracy by implying that relativistic effects will produce a significant part in the calculation of the path of a meteorite that is traveling at a mere 8 km per second. or roughly 1/50,000 the speed of light.

"made no allowance for the spacetime curvature around the earth" - Uba
LOL. Now the Vendispambot confuses spacetime curvature (aka gravity) with relativistic effects! LOL.

What a buffoon. LOL.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (5) Feb 18, 2013
I will bet you your life.
Interesting. And what are you willing to risk?

"Gee, I wonder what might have happened had it been captured by the earth in any of an infinite number of relative positions?" - Uba

Since it's velocity was greater than the escape velocity of the earth, it couldn't have been captured through gravitational effects.
Gee. I don't see me mentioning a gravitational capture there. Do you just make this crap up as you go along? LOL.

And now of course Uba is running away from his earlier claim that the meteor could have had a wide range of relative velocities if it were orbiting the passing asteroid.
LOL. When did I supposedly make that claim?

At a speed of 8mm per second.
Will someone PLEASE unplug the Vendispambot? It's just spewing gibberish, now.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (5) Feb 18, 2013
Two would go in. I would come out.
Sure ...in a spambot trash can! LOL.

How can anyone still take this gibberish generator seriously?

VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Feb 18, 2013
UbVonTard uses terms like "spacetime curvature" but has no clue that they are a concept of General Relativity.

He then insists that "spacetime curvature" is not about relativity.

"Now the Vendispambot confuses spacetime curvature (aka gravity) with relativistic effects!" - UbVonTard

He is spectacularly ignorant, and mentally diseased.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Feb 18, 2013
Poor UbVonTard. he still doesn't know how to solve basic arithmetic problems.

"How can anyone still take this gibberish generator seriously?" - UbVonTard

He can't add, or do basic algebra. But he insists that he knows science.

It is all part of his mental disease.
VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 18, 2013
"Gee, I wonder what might have happened had it been captured by the earth in any of an infinite number of relative positions?" - UbVonTard

Since you now assert that your use of the word "capture" means collision and not gravitational capture, it is a trivial matter to compute an answer to your question given any initial conditions.

But since you are numerically and scientifically illiterate, you are incapable of doing so.

Hence your perpetual state of mental delusion.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (3) Feb 18, 2013
UbVonTard uses terms like "spacetime curvature" but has no clue that they are a concept of General Relativity.
OMG. So now the Vendispambot thinks anything having to do with GR is about relativistic effects! LMAO. So much for artificial intelligence. This thing is as dumb as a box of rocks! LOL.

He then insists that "spacetime curvature" is not about relativity.
Apparently, the Vendispambot doesn't understand that GR is a description of the properties of (gravity*)! LOL.

"Now the Vendispambot confuses spacetime curvature (aka gravity) with relativistic effects!" - Uba

It is spectacularly ignorant, and poorly programmed. It seems the more they try to fix it, the worse it gets!

*Apparently, Vendispambot can't read words in (parenthesis). LOL.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (3) Feb 18, 2013
Poor Uba. he still doesn't know how to solve basic arithmetic problems.

"How can anyone still take this gibberish generator seriously?" - Uba

He can't add, or do basic algebra. But he insists that he knows science.

It is all part of his mental disease.
Reported for irrelevance.

Moderator: When will you finally ban this spambot, again? Would you please be consistent and ban it immediately, every time it returns?

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (3) Feb 18, 2013
"Gee, I wonder what might have happened had it been captured by the earth in any of an infinite number of relative positions?" - Uba

Since you now assert that your use of the word "capture" means collision and not gravitational capture,
LOL. When did I supposedly make that overly simplistic assertion?

it is a trivial matter to compute an answer to your question given any initial conditions.
LOL. Right, and the answer is exactly what I said it was. Such a satellite could enter the earth's atmosphere at any point, from any direction.

But since you are numerically and scientifically illiterate, you are incapable of doing so.
What's the matter spambot? Afraid to admit I was right all along? LOL.

wildblulou
2 / 5 (4) Feb 18, 2013
I don't know about you guys, but I don't buy the trajectory thing as any kind of legitimate reason why the recent spate of heavy meteor activity is not related to Friday's flyby. In the vast vacuum of space, objects like this would naturally be traveling together in that great emptiness. As big of a gravitational pull that Earth is in all that, it's much easier to believe that small fragments traveling with the rain main rock simply got pulled in as the ancient caravan passed by. They could have hit the atmosphere from a variety of different directions considering their size and momentum.
VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 18, 2013
By definition general relativity is about relatavistic effects.

"So now the Vendispambot thinks anything having to do with GR is about relativistic effects!" - UbVonTard

Poor UbVonTard. He just gets dumber and dumber with each passing moment.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (3) Feb 18, 2013
By definition general relativity is about relatavistic effects.
LMAO! See? It still hasn't figured out what I'm talking about (gravity).

(by definition: (general relativity) LMAO

"So now the Vendispambot thinks anything having to do with GR is about relativistic effects!" - Uba

Poor Uba. He just gets dumber and dumber with each passing moment.
Poor Vendispambot. It can't read the dates on these posts, it can't read words (in parenthesis) it can't read words in "quotations," and it doesn't even think "it's" is a valid word! LMAO

It's interesting it's mispelling more words than before (like with relativistic). Is this on purpose, or is it being corrupted by its search results? LOL.

VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Feb 19, 2013
Sentence 1

"Gee. I don't see me mentioning a gravitational capture there. Do you just make this crap up as you go along?" - UbVonTard

Sentence 2

"LMAO! See? It still hasn't figured out what I'm talking about (gravity)." - UbVonTard

UbVonTard just lies, and lies and lies, and lies.

Lying is what he lives for.

Lying is his life.
VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (2) Feb 19, 2013
If the meteor were orbiting the fly by asteroid as UbVonTard has asserted, then it could not have entered the earth's atmosphere at any point since the maximum deviation of it's velocity from that of it's primary (the fly by asteroid) would be on the order of 10mm per second.

This compares to the velocity of the fly by asteroid of approximately 10,000 mm per second.

This means that the meteor would have necessarily approached the earth from the same direction as the asteroid within a small fraction of a degree.

UbVonTard has been told this at least twice, and now three times.

Yet he persists in ignoring reality and trying to escape from his error through a non stop stream of lies.

"Such a satellite could enter the earth's atmosphere at any point, from any direction." - UbVonTard

How typically Republican of him.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Feb 19, 2013
Nope. Not possible.

See above If they are gravitationally bound their speeds can not exceed the escape velocity which would be around 10mm per second.

If they are not gravitationally bound then they do not stay together as a group.

Further, their separation was so large that tidal forces on the meteor/asteroid system would have separated them long ago.

"They could have hit the atmosphere from a variety of different directions considering their size and momentum." - Wild

They were moving independently.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (2) Feb 23, 2013
Sentence 1

"Gee. I don't see me mentioning a gravitational capture there. Do you just make this crap up as you go along?" - Uba

Sentence 2

"LMAO! See? It still hasn't figured out what I'm talking about (gravity)." - Uba
LOL. I still don't see me mentioning a gravitational capture there. Maybe you think gravity doesn't do anything else? LOL!

Vendispambot needs more programming.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (2) Feb 23, 2013
If the meteor were orbiting the fly by asteroid as Uba has asserted, then it could not have entered the earth's atmosphere at any point since the maximum deviation of it's velocity from that of it's primary (the fly by asteroid) would be on the order of 10mm per second.
LOL. The Vendispambot still gets velocity mixed up with trajectory. ...too funny!

This compares to the velocity of the fly by asteroid of approximately 10,000 mm per second.

This means that the meteor would have necessarily approached the earth from the same direction as the asteroid within a small fraction of a degree.
LOL. Vendispambot still doesn't understand my 3rd post to this article.

Uba has been told this at least twice, and now three times.

Yet he persists in ignoring reality and trying to escape from his error through a non stop stream of lies.

How typically Republican of him.
So meteors are political now? LOL!