Experiments illuminate how order arises in the cosmos

Oct 05, 2012 by Breanna Bishop
Lawrence livermore experiments illuminate how order arises in the cosmos
Plasmas stream from the top and bottom to form large-scale electromagnetic fields.

(Phys.org)—One of the unsolved mysteries of contemporary science is how highly organized structures can emerge from the random motion of particles. This applies to many situations ranging from astrophysical objects that extend over millions of light years to the birth of life on Earth.

The surprising discovery of self-organized electromagnetic fields in counter-streaming ionized gases (also known as plasmas) will give scientists a new way to explore how order emerges from chaos in the cosmos. This breakthrough finding was published online in the journal on September 30.

"We've created a model for exploring how electromagnetic fields help organize ionized gas or plasma in astrophysical settings, such as in the plasma flows that emerge from young stars," said lead author Nathan Kugland, a in the High Science Group at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL). "These fields help shape the flows, and likely play a supporting role alongside gravity in the formation of solar systems, which can eventually lead to the creation of planets like the Earth."

"This observation was completely unexpected, since the plasmas move so quickly that they should freely stream past each other," explained Hye-Sook Park, team leader and staff physicist at LLNL. Park added that "laser-driven plasma experiments can study the microphysics of plasma interaction and structure formation under controlled conditions."

Studying astrophysics with laboratory experiments can help answer questions about that are far beyond the reach of direct measurements. This research is being carried out as part of a large , Astrophysical Collisionless Shock Experiments with Lasers (ACSEL), led by LLNL, Princeton University, Osaka University and Oxford University, with many other universities participating.

Explore further: Scientists create possible precursor to life

More information: "Self-organized Electromagnetic Field Structures in Laser-Produced Counter-Streaming Plasmas" Nature, Sept. 30, 2012 www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v… /full/nphys2434.html

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cantdrive85
1.5 / 5 (8) Oct 05, 2012
One of the tenets of Plasma Cosmology is the fact the plasmas are scalable over many orders of magnitude and that laboratory plasmas can be extrapolated to represent space plasma of all sizes.
Ophelia
3.4 / 5 (5) Oct 05, 2012
... nobody denies that the clouds of plasma ... would behave like the plasma.


Care to expand upon what you mean?
SoylentGrin
5 / 5 (9) Oct 05, 2012
cantdrive, by saying it's a tenet of plasma cosmology, does that mean that if plasma in the lab behaves like plasma in space, that will be taken as a confirmation of plasma cosmology?
Wouldn't "plasma behaves like plasma" be more of a tautology rather than a prediction?
cantdrive85
1.5 / 5 (8) Oct 05, 2012
The tenet is that PC can be confirmed by laboratory experiment, unlike the theoreticals that are largely just mind exercises and are not readily falsifiable or testable.
ODesign
1.4 / 5 (7) Oct 05, 2012
wild speculation:
Self organizing structures in plasma may not want to us to understand and manipulate them. I think the definition of life says something about complex and self organizing system and also reproduction. Do sun spots in the plasma of he sun spawn other sun spots? Do fast moving plasma's that unexpectedly interact with each other function similar to dendrites in nerve cells? Electromagnetic phenomena in a star/sun acting in a complex intelligent manner would definitely affect the Drake equations.
Lurker2358
1.2 / 5 (6) Oct 05, 2012
Well, aspects of plasma theories can certainly be tested more readily than dark energy, dark matter, or string theories, that's for certain.

WE know enough, as a race, about plasma so that we have tools based on plasma and we have experimental antiseptic devices based on plasma, and even military researching the possibility of plasma shields and weapons, so our understanding of this state of matter is far greater than any of the theory or hypothesis of post-modern physics.

Some o four understanding of chemistry is warped by our ordinary "common sense" experience.

On earth, we see a fire shoot up via convecton currents as a flame.

If you could suspend a wood fuel source inside a globe using wires to keep it in the dead center, and then put it far out in space away from gravity, and ignite a fire in there with normal air, I believe the "flames" would pass radially in every direction, with the radiation moving in every direction. and tat leaves another problem.
Lurker2358
1 / 5 (7) Oct 05, 2012
Under conservation laws, when something "burns" or changes state, such as going from gas to plasma, energy gains/releases must be equal to cancel out everything back to the saem universal values.

So gravity warps the natural condition of chemical and plasma reactions, but there is no textbook explaination of how this "warping" is offset in order to maintain conservation laws!
A2G
1 / 5 (5) Oct 05, 2012
They are getting close, but still far away from the real answer.

We also work with plasma in vacuum chambers and they need to be aware of the walls of the vacuum chamber itself affecting the experiment from the charge build up that occurs. Without the walls of the vacuum chamber I think their results would change.

Our work will be online in the form of a HD video of real time experiments that undeniably show the forces at work in a star.

I would estimate that in early Nov. it will be online in multiple places. It will blow your mind. Guaranteed.

But it will also reveal a lot of statements by the EU crowd to be totally false. It will even show that some of Birkeland's experiments reveal a lot of stuff that he and others never realized even thought they were looking right at it.

You will not see just a sun in action. You will see a galaxy formed in plasma. Then by just minor manipulations you can achieve other formations which we now see in space that currently mystify.
A2G
1 / 5 (5) Oct 05, 2012
Further. From all of our testing Birkeland currents have nothing at all to do with what is seen in space, at least as far as a cause. They may result here or there, but they are not the drivers the EU crowd makes them to be.

Then back to the current experiment from the article. Counter streaming plasma jets certainly occur in space, but they are not the cause of matter organization in space. They are the result.

They have cause and effect reverse from their forced experimental conditions that would not occur on their own in space. i.e. where did the counter streaming plasma come from in the first place? What was the initial organization of matter that caused the counter streaming plasma to occur initially??

Answer that and then you have something.

Hint. Intrinsic spin is involved.

atomic to galactic.
cantdrive85
1.4 / 5 (9) Oct 05, 2012
@A2G,
I don't think anyone in the "EU crowd" is under the presumption that they have all the answers. Much of their knowledge and hypotheses are based on knowledge of laboratory plasma experiments, if space plasma does indeed behave differently than laboratory plasmas their views must change. Until they actually see the different behavior you claim, the scientist should rely on his experiments to make assessments.
As far as the galaxy formation, Bostick's Plasmoids and Anthony Peratt's paper, "On the evolution of interacting, magnetized, galactic plasmas", both do a pretty good job explaining the observed phenomenon.
You claim that Birkeland's experiments revealed more than he or others recognized, if this is indeed the case, it's a sad state of affairs in science that those phenomenon took nearly a hundred years to find, mostly due to lack of research.

Sanescience
2 / 5 (4) Oct 05, 2012
It remains to be seen if aspects of the universe are infinite fractal versions of itself at all scales.

It sure seems like quantum level is a lot different than macro level.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (22) Oct 06, 2012
I believe the "flames" would pass radially in every direction, with the radiation moving in every direction. and tat leaves another problem.
Sorry lurker as usual many have already anticipated your uncommon insight. Google is your friend. Your only friend.
http://archive.or...-0601309
http://www.space....rch.html

alfie_null
5 / 5 (5) Oct 06, 2012
Sorry lurker as usual many have already anticipated your uncommon insight. Google is your friend. Your only friend.

Also worth mentioning, the Solid Surface Combustion Experiment, run on several shuttle flights back in the early 90s.

http://www.grc.na...23k2.htm
A2G
1 / 5 (4) Oct 06, 2012
Cantdrive85 wrote,

You claim that Birkeland's experiments revealed more than he or others recognized, if this is indeed the case, it's a sad state of affairs in science that those phenomenon took nearly a hundred years to find, mostly due to lack of research."

It was not due to lack of research. It was due to not having all the info that we now have from all the excellent research that NASA et al has done and published online. I know that the mainstream crowd is pushing other theoretical ideas than you or I may be, but I prefer it that way. That way the actual data they collect is not polluted in some way towards what my view is, as they do not acknowledge it at all. Yet the data is the data, and it will be proven that formations we see in the known universe can be explained and made in the lab in without BH, DM, or DE. This has been done and video of it will be there for all to see.

The research in the article proves that EM fields can form and organize matter. Very cool and true.
Lurker2358
1.8 / 5 (5) Oct 06, 2012
Sorry lurker as usual many have already anticipated your uncommon insight. Google is your friend. Your only friend.
http://archive.or...-0601309


The joke's on you, because I inferred that on my own.

While Google is a friend of mine, I can't be bothered to "Google" every insight of mine to see who else had discovered it, otherwise i'd do very nearly nothing else.

I wondered whether experiments were done with fire on the shuttle, but I figured it was probably too dangerous, so I didn't bother checking.

I know I wouldn't want to be in a tin can with limited oxygen and intentionally start a fire...
vidyunmaya
1 / 5 (6) Oct 07, 2012
Sub: Origins-Cosmic Function-Prime to Base Concepts
Plasma Regulated Electromagnetic phenomena in magnetic Field Environment- see Cosmology vedas Interlinks
http://www.scribd...rse-2003
http://www.scribd...del-2003
vidyunmaya
1 / 5 (6) Oct 07, 2012
sub: Knowledge base
Knowledge base must lead to Knowledge Expansion.
space Cosmology vedas Interlinks help dimensional knowledge with comprehension of the universe and multi -Universe concepts.
East West interaction- Cosmology Vedas Interlinks help in time. support a center for best of brains trust
http://vidyardhic...pot.com/
mgmirkin
1 / 5 (4) Oct 07, 2012
This is "news," a "surprising discovery," a "breakthrough finding"?

Maybe to those unfamiliar with Plasma Cosmology. The rest of us have known collectively that electromagnetic forces shape overall structure for decades...

Is absolutely nobody familiar with the works of Kristian Birkeland, C.E.R. Bruce, Hannes Alfvén, Anthony Peratt and a host of others?

Congratulations you've just haphazardly rediscovered Plasma Cosmology. You must be proud... Now, could'ja maybe catch up on like the last 100 years of research and theory?

*Rolls eyes, just a bit*
mgmirkin
1 / 5 (4) Oct 07, 2012
Congratulations you've just haphazardly rediscovered Plasma Cosmology. Now, could'ja maybe catch up on like the last 100 years of research and theory?


In fact, I'll even give you a couple hints:

(Physics of the Plasma Universe; Anthony Peratt, recently reprinted!)
www.amazon.com/Ph...1276667/

(Cosmical Electrodynamics; Alfvén & Falthammar)
www.amazon.com/Co...06BLK9I/

(Cosmic Plasma; Hannes Alfvén)
www.amazon.com/Co...7711518/

(The Plasma Universe)
http://www.amazon...1519276/

(The Electric Universe; David Talbott & Wallace Thornhill)
www.amazon.com/El...7285138/
mikamar.biz/book-info/teu-b.htm

(The Electric Sky; Don Scott)
www.amazon.com/El...7285111/
mikamar.biz/book-info/tes-a.htm

That should keep you busy a while..
jsdarkdestruction
3 / 5 (10) Oct 07, 2012
sub: Knowledge base
Knowledge base must lead to Knowledge Expansion.
space Cosmology vedas Interlinks help dimensional knowledge with comprehension of the universe and multi -Universe concepts.
East West interaction- Cosmology Vedas Interlinks help in time. support a center for best of brains trust
http://vidyardhic...pot.com/

you realize know one ever reads your links you spam all over? why you have not been banned is beyond me.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (17) Oct 08, 2012
While Google is a friend of mine, I can't be bothered to "Google" every insight of mine to see who else had discovered it, otherwise i'd do very nearly nothing else.
I think I misunderstood - are you saying you would find yourself with nothing left to post? You could post links to their stuff and actually contribute something useful to the community.

For instance this
So gravity warps the natural condition of chemical and plasma reactions, but there is no textbook explaination of how this "warping" is offset in order to maintain conservation laws!
-is just rubbish. As I and alfie null showed you, there is much hard data on combustion in space, and theories on how it works. You guessed and, because of your flagrant egomania, concluded no one else could possibly have thought if it first. Disappointed?

This is not adding anything beneficial to the community. Some might even read it and think you are actually aware of what is in textbooks, which you most obviously are not.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (17) Oct 08, 2012
For instance
and then put it far out in space away from gravity
-you are apparently unaware of microgravity in orbit. If you had been aware of microgravity in orbit perhaps you might have suspected that experiments on combustion would have been among the first they would have attempted on space stations.

You demonstrated a similar fundamental lack in your attempts at celestial mechanics, sun calcs, and the idea that dry ice could be found in the Antarctic. And so much more.