Physics group looks ahead past LHC to LEP3

Aug 08, 2012 by Bob Yirka report

(Phys.org) -- A group of physicists is looking beyond the usefulness of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) to a new collider that would sit in the tunnel still occupied by the LHC, to an updated version of what was there before, the Large Electron-Positron Collider (LEP). The new one would be called, aptly enough, LEP3. The group, from the UK, Russia, Japan, Switzerland and the US, say the collider would be used to study the Higgs boson.

The infamous LHC, is of course, the large circular piece of machinery that sits in a tunnel beneath the ground near Geneva, Switzerland and is used to study what happens when sub-atomic particles are smashed together at very high speeds. Two projects there, and CMS, part of the research effort, recently made worldwide headlines after proving the existence of a “Higgs-like” particle that most believe to be the elusive . Current research efforts on that project are still undergoing, with both teams still hoping to offer definitive proof that the particle they are observing is indeed the Higgs. But then what? That’s the question on the minds of many as plans for utilizing the massively expensive experimental equipment look as far ahead as perhaps the 2030’s. And because such equipment takes years of planning and construction, physics teams have already been formed looking towards the next phase.

First, virtually all agree that the LHC equipment will be upgraded over the next decade or so, to bump up its energy and luminosity. After that though, it appears the next step will depend on what researchers turn up using the LHC. Most assuredly, more will be learned about the Higgs, but if new experiments also uncover more particles, such as the supersymmteric particle, than will want to be able to study those as well, which would dim the prospects of a project that could only study the Higgs, such as LEP3. That’s where other proposals such as the International Linear Collider (ILC) and the Compact Linear Collider (CLIC) come in, both are capable of including the study of other particles, but both would also cost more.

One major difference between the LHC and LEP3 would be the type of particles that are smashed together. The LHC runs protons into protons, whereas LEP3 would run electrons into positrons or vice-versa. LEP3 also calls for two accelerator rings rather than just the one used by the LHC. The team says they believe the LEP3 could be built in as little as ten years using the existing infrastructure and could even coexist with the for some amount of time if necessary.

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User comments : 11

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gopher65
5 / 5 (11) Aug 08, 2012
I'm curious: you called the LHC "infamous" rather than "famous". Are you simply grammatically illiterate, or did you actually mean to call it infamous?

You made me doubt my understanding of what the word meant, so I went and looked it up. Nope, I was right. Here are the two definitions that can apply to inanimate objects (the other applies only to people, or, more specifically "citizens"):

1) having an extremely bad reputation, or
2) deserving of or causing an evil reputation.

The dictionary specifically mentions that bad writers sometimes incorrectly use "infamous" as a synonym for "famous". It's not. Don't use it that way.
chardo137
2 / 5 (4) Aug 08, 2012
Haven't you seen the Three Amigos? The LHC is like El Guapo, better than famous, it's in-famous!
But seriously, I hope this team is thinking about the new laser accelerator technology recently tested at Lawrence Berkeley Labs.
LuckyBrandon
2.3 / 5 (4) Aug 08, 2012
recently made worldwide headlines after proving the existence of a Higgs-like particle that most believe to be the elusive Higgs boson. Current research efforts on that project are still undergoing, with both teams still hoping to offer definitive proof that the particle they are observing is indeed the Higgs.


Aren't they up to six sigma positive...that's pretty much definitive....
gopher65
5 / 5 (5) Aug 08, 2012
Aren't they up to six sigma positive...that's pretty much definitive....

They're as certain as reasonably possible that they've found a new particle. It appears to be a boson. Whether or not it is specifically the Higgs Boson that would indirectly provide evidence for the existence of the Higgs Field (that gives mass to particles) is entirely another matter. Determining that will require several years of additional study.

However, based on the mass of the particle, it *could* be the Higgs Boson. Or, if it turns out the Higgs doesn't exist, it could be a particle similar to the Higgs that fulfills a similar roll in a slightly modified version of the Standard Model.
Satene
1.5 / 5 (8) Aug 08, 2012
The LEP3 can be understood as an expression of the fear, the LHC won't find anything interesting in future due to high noise/signal ratio. Apparently the collider industry and lobby of private companies involved needs some new contracts and well payed business. BTW The physicists still didn't recovered all data of LEP wasted into form of digital garbage.
El_Nose
4.3 / 5 (3) Aug 08, 2012
@lucky

gopher is correct, six sigma would mean that they definitely have a new particle -- but not necessarily the Higgs particle. It happens to have the mass expected of the Higgs, but they have to prove it has no spin to actually be THE Higgs -- this is just a Higgs candidate until that is proven.
Torbjorn_Larsson_OM
5 / 5 (3) Aug 08, 2012
More precisely, the found 125 GeV particle is boson (integer spin) with either spin 0 or 2. Spin 1 is excluded already, IIRC meaning no photon decay.

This is in the predicted mass range from observed exclusion combined with theoretical constraints. To confirm that it is a standard higgs it would have to have the right ratio of decay pathways, which settles the spin 0 requirement.

The decays haven't enough statistics yet, the combined statistics went into the detection. A few decay channels have 3 sigma, but that is still only a few higgs per channel.
Torbjorn_Larsson_OM
not rated yet Aug 08, 2012
@ chardo137:

Isn't studying such a compact technology what the CLIC project is for?

@ Satene: The old LEP was ~ 20 % less energy than was required to find the higgs (if that is what it is). The new LEP would use its energy range to study the higgs but also the top, to prepare for future accelerators (if any) by looking at the beyond higgs/top physics.

The more costly ILC is more immediately useful if they find new particle physics already in the LHC. And that has nothing to do with SNR problems of LHC but how the physics works.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (17) Aug 08, 2012
The LEP3 can be understood as an expression of the fear, the LHC won't find anything interesting in future due to high noise/signal ratio. Apparently the collider industry and lobby of private companies involved needs some new contracts and well payed business. BTW The physicists still didn't recovered http://arxiv.org/abs/0912.1803 wasted into form of digital garbage.
So I guess theyre going to keep building these things until they make some stranglet goo or a black hole, right?
http://cerntruth....destiny/

-Sorry Im just a little bored.
hcnap
1 / 5 (1) Aug 11, 2012
Higgs Boson has not been found for 50 years. We are still not sure what was found recently is Boson. This and other pending confirmation of predictions means that man is reaching his limits in the sub atomic field
Pkunk_
1 / 5 (1) Aug 12, 2012
Higgs Boson has not been found for 50 years. We are still not sure what was found recently is Boson. This and other pending confirmation of predictions means that man is reaching his limits in the sub atomic field


AS evidenced with the discovery of new particles every few years, the rapid advances in understanding the DNA of organisms, we are nowhere near our "limits".
If anything , these prove that man has no limits when he puts his mind to anything.
The opportunities of man are limited only by his imagination. But so few have imagination that there are ten thousand fiddlers to one composer. - Charles F. Kettering