Gorillas filmed performing amazing feat of intellectual ability

so where is the video?

They should teach them how to set snares for poachers. Poachers are bushmeat too.

Why arent rich activists funding safaris to hunt poachers? This would only make sense.

@PJS - I'm speculating wildly here, but a video would likely go viral pdq, and eventually become known to poachers who might then modify the snares.

Source? references? links? Who made this "discovery"?

rich activists

Never heard of people bing both rich and activists.
Do I sense a tone of disliking activists, here?
-.

rich activists

Never heard of people bing both rich and activists.
Do I sense a tone of disliking activists, here?
-.

Why not? How many movie stars can you think of who are activists?
http://www.consum...ch-aunt/
http://in.news.ya...723.html

-Lots of rich idealists out there. Some I would assume would enjoy hunting poachers.

Poachers should be all shot and their families too. It will never stop until the price is too high or there isn't anything to poach.

Ah, I see.

Yes, these are rich activists out there.
-.

That is so sad and uplifting at the same time.

And then TheGhostofOtto1923 destroys everything emotional and sane in this thread:

"Why arent rich activists funding safaris to hunt poachers?"

Because they, like those 'rillas, are moral animals? Morality is primarily directed within species. It is first in later times that we have started to include other animals, and they us, in an extended family.

Even the possibility of this should ensure that we maintain a commitment to avoidance of suffering. Such action by primates does not surprise me personally.

That is so sad and uplifting at the same time.

And then TheGhostofOtto1923 destroys everything emotional and sane in this thread:

"Why arent rich activists funding safaris to hunt poachers?"

Well let's see... Humans wantonly kill gorillas. Gorillas do not kill humans.
Which are the sane ones?

Um...hunting poachers is referred to as murder, and you get a LONG fkn time in prison for that one...not really worth it (not that I'm necessarily opposed to the concept...human hunting is probably GREAT game). These are just freakin animals...nothing special..as goes with all animals...Darwin explained survival of the fittest a long time ago, this shouldn't be a surprise that poachers are out there taking out the less capable species off our planet. This doesn't make them bad, its just what they do.
If you kill a deer out of season in the US, technically, you are poaching...BUT ITS STILL JUST A FREAKING DEER...

Poverty causes people to do what it takes to survive. There is enough for all, but not enough for the biggest number in the computer.

Poverty causes people to do what it takes to survive.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I think it is a little more complicated than that. Poaching requires poverty and lack of respect for law and wildlife; if you remove any of the three a poacher stops poaching.

Why arent rich activists funding safaris to hunt poachers?

Because being an activist means you have a conscience and ethics. Playing "tit-for-tat" isn't ethical if the "tit" isn't ethical - so they don't do it.

Tit for tat is ethical. I feel no compunction to treat you better than you treat me.
The planet is infested by H.Sap. He is in overshoot. The numbers will crash no matter how he throws the dice.
Humans are a commodity. The more of them there are the less valuable they become.
Already they are a dime a dozen.
Gorillas on the other hand are much more rare and therefore valuable.
AND SHOUTING ABOUT THEM BEING JUST ANIMALS DISPLAYS YOUR HYSTERIA.

These are just freakin animals...nothing special..as goes with all animals...

Well, gorillas would be considered special compared to, say termites or locusts, when you consider their numbers. All animals are not equal. I would say all animals are, in the grand scheme of things, equally important. They wouldn't exist if there wasn't a niche to fill. When that niche no longer exists (a volcano destroys an island) then they will either disappear or adapt to a new niche and will either push out the incumbents or fail = that is natural selection. However, wiping them out just for entertainment or greed is not.

This shouldn't be a surprise that poachers are out there taking out the less capable species off our planet. This doesn't make them bad, its just what they do.

An incorrect understanding of "survival of the fittest".

Tit for tat is ethical. I feel no compunction to treat you better than you treat me.

Tit for tat is OK in most scenarios. However it only can lead to a status quo or worse.
Tit for tat relies on both sides evaluating the action EXACTLY the same. If one side has an even minutely different appraisal of what the action is worth then you'll get an inexorable downward spiral. So it's not really a stable strategy
(only in computer simulations is it stable - but there evaluations are absolute and therefore equality of interpretation can be assured)

But activists/idealists aren't interested in keeping the status quo or making the world worse. So tit for tat isn't a viable strategy for them.

Tit for tat is ethical. I feel no compunction to treat you better than you treat me.

Excuse me. I'm not sure if these come from American-raised youngsters, or something with similar social undevelopment. But those rejecting generally-held principles of morality its high time that they get severely criticized. I'm fed up from this open declaration of selfishness and aggresion.
-.

Tit for tat is ethical. I feel no compunction to treat you better than you treat me.
The planet is infested by H.Sap. He is in overshoot. The numbers will crash no matter how he throws the dice.
Humans are a commodity. The more of them there are the less valuable they become.
Already they are a dime a dozen.
Gorillas on the other hand are much more rare and therefore valuable.
AND SHOUTING ABOUT THEM BEING JUST ANIMALS DISPLAYS YOUR HYSTERIA.

Are you a self loathing human or a superior extraterrestrial? If you are a self loathing human with less value than a gorilla then why should we listen to you? If you are a superior extraterrestrial, don't you have better things to do than insult humans in the comment section of a physics website powered by inferior human technology?

Perhaps you should post your comments on a site powered by gorilla technology. That way, you and your superior gorilla friends can make fun of us pathetic humans behind our backs.

Nah. It's just everybody else. he himself is surely (in his mind) not part of that 'infestation'. Or he'd have offed himself long ago (or sold himself for a twelfth of a dime).

Tit for tat is ethical. I feel no compunction to treat you better than you treat me.

Excuse me. I'm not sure if these come from American-raised youngsters, or something with similar social undevelopment. But those rejecting generally-held principles of morality its high time that they get severely criticized. I'm fed up from this open declaration of selfishness and aggresion.
-.

Excuse me. I'm not sure if these come from EurAfriAsian-raised youngsters, or something with similar cognitive undevelopment. But those rejecting generally-held principles of logic its high time that they get severely criticized. I'm fed up from this open declaration of generalizations and xenophobia.

@ RWS:

"Humans wantonly kill gorillas. Gorillas do not kill humans. Which are the sane ones?"

Humans < bonobos < orangs < gorillas < chimps in frequency of violence AFAIK. Cross-species violence is about ability and opportunity, not sanity.

@ jalexmead:

There is much less poverty in the world than 20 years ago. Still, and perhaps therefore, the bushmeat trade has exploded.

@ verkle:

Creationist _and_ conspirationist? That would make you less intelligent than the gorillas.

@ Egleton:

- There is no sign of any population crash, but all the signs of a controlled leveling out.
- Humans are valuable to humans, and self to self. Morality and its evolved behavioral traits can, as I already noted, only be made sense of based on a species basis.

If you are talking economics OTOH, humans rule the planet and most of its markets (carbon recycling vs climate change et cetera) because we can.

Um...hunting poachers is referred to as murder, and you get a LONG fkn time in prison for that one...

1) Only if you get caught; 2) I am not sure if this is true in uganda.

not really worth it

Empirically not worth it? This is a subjective opinion.

(not that I'm necessarily opposed to the concept...human hunting is probably GREAT game). These are just freakin animals...nothing special..

Until they are all gone.

as goes with all animals...Darwin explained survival of the fittest a long time ago, this shouldn't be a surprise that poachers are out there taking out the less capable species off our planet.

Many animals ally with others for added protection, as in mixed herds of grazers.

This doesn't make them bad, its just what they do.

Exactly.

If you kill a deer out of season in the US, technically, you are poaching...BUT ITS STILL JUST A FREAKING DEER

There is open season on many human factions in uganda. http://en.wikiped...y#Uganda

@Torbjorn_Larsson_OM

Humans < bonobos < orangs < gorillas < chimps in frequency of violence AFAIK. Cross-species violence is about ability and opportunity, not sanity.

That's not really accurate. Even putting cross-species violence aside, bonobos can hardly be considered to be more violent than humans, quite the opposite, they have better mechanism for dealing with the conflicts they do have. If we were to take in cross-species violence, then humans would be far above all the primates, just by taking into account the hundreds of thousands of slaughter-houses,poaching, hunting, insecticide use and so on.

There is much less poverty in the world than 20 years ago.

Yes, but not where there should be less really, which is exactly where poaching still occurs, and often as cash crop to sell to rich countries.

@Torbjorn_Larsson_OM

- There is no sign of any population crash, but all the signs of a controlled leveling out.

False - Bonobos: population decline over a three-generation period from the 1970s to 2045 is thought to exceed 50%; Sumatran Orangs: an estimated decline of over 80% over the last 75 years; Lowland Gorillas: a population reduction of more than 80% over three generations

- Humans are valuable to humans, and self to self. Morality and its evolved behavioral traits can only be made sense of based on a species basis.

I beg to differ. We ourselves have proven that humans are not valuable to humans as we've been killing each other in great numbers for a while now. SOME humans are valuable to OTHER humans, but not all, it seems. In terms of morality, we are indeed the only ones who can decide for our own species, however there is no inherent basis for morality that excludes moral principles towards other species, and I think we would do well to develop those.

That's not really accurate. Even putting cross-species violence aside, bonobos can hardly be considered to be more violent than humans, quite the opposite, they have better mechanism for dealing with the conflicts they do have.

Like any other animal, bonobos can be expected to expend energy in conflict only if they, their offspring, or their tribes are threatened, at which time they can be expected to fight like hell. Just like human beings.

Human history is violent because humans have eliminated all natural attritive elements which would keep our numbers in check, leaving us in constant conflict over resources and reproductive rights.

@Otto

That is perfectly true, nor did I argue otherwise, I don't consider bonobos to be a miracle species, there is a fair consensus that the primary reason for their more peaceful nature and ways of resolving conflict have evolved primarily due to the availability of resources in their habitat. On the same argument however, humans have the resources of the entire planet at their disposal, however our "higher" intelligence has apparently also proven to be our undoing in many ways, creating conflicts on basis that do not exist in the bonobo or the primate world and otherwise increasing our numbers to the point where war within our species and with other species is relatively commonplace.

I don't consider bonobos to be a miracle species, there is a fair consensus that the primary reason for their more peaceful nature and ways of resolving conflict have evolved primarily due to the availability of resources in their habitat.

Yeah you are. Bonobos resolve conflict like any other animal. You fall for hype. The more we learn about them the more obvious this will become.
http://www.cosmos...udy-says

humans have the resources of the entire planet at their disposal, however our "higher" intelligence has apparently also proven to be our undoing in many ways

-AND you are prone to 1960s humanity disparaging. Just what undoing are you talking about? Despite chronic overpopulation and the violence this engenders, humans have consistently improved their lot, and are now poised to colonize the solar system.

We have done unbelievably well. You should discard your 20th century human-hating.

@Otto

Yeah you are. Bonobos resolve conflict like any other animal. You fall for hype. The more we learn about them the more obvious this will become.

That is misquoting what I originally said. I said bonobos have better mechanisms for resolving conflict within their own species, not that they don't exhibit violence towards other species. I'm well aware of the research done into bonobo hunting behavior, but that does not change what has been learned about their social structure so far, and that is still that of a fairly peaceful one in comparison at least to other primates and certainly with humans. Even so, the primates can't even hold a stick to humans when it comes to violence against other species.

@Otto

We have done unbelievably well. You should discard your 20th century human-hating.

I guess that depends entirely on how you judge "unbelievably well" doesn't it?
I believe that humanity, through it's very nature but also through it's self-definition as a "superior" species has also set much higher standards for itself than success in numbers and space. You have the right to disagree of course, but that does not invalidate my view of the world that includes factors like happiness and wellbeing.

From a strict evolutionary perspective, yes, we've done well. We have however also done considerable damage to our environment and that alone can be considered part of our potential undoing - our advantage and success as a species could very rapidly turn into the means for our extinction, whereas that is not the case for other species. It is worth noting that there are species that have been around for much longer than we have, numbers aside, so the jury is still out on humans.

Brandon wins the tard of year award! Congrats buddy ... you earned it!

and that is still that of a fairly peaceful one in comparison

Yeah that is what they said about the maya until it became impossible to conceal their true nature. Hype is good for stimulating public interest and securing funding. Per the article above we are still learning very fundamental things about primates. Our current opinions about the warlike nature of chimps is actually based on very few observed instances.

Bonobos, as with any species, replaced their competition because they were better at exploiting their environment to their advantage.

We have however also done considerable damage to our environment

Any species exists today because they were able to eject their competition from their niche. Ejectees most likely went extinct, or evolved into something else.

Humans are the only species which seeks to preserve their competition. To us this makes sense because it maintains the diversity of life. We can see this as an advantage while other animals perhaps do not.

that is not the case for other species

Extinction is the NORM in nature. Most every species which ever existed, has gone extinct.

Terror birds were very successful for a very long time, until the land bridge connected north and south america. Canines showed up with a better approach and extincted them. Millions of species have disappeared in this manner. Humans are the only species which strives not to extinct other species.

It is worth noting that there are species that have been around for much longer than we have, numbers aside, so the jury is still out on humans

Those species were all stranded on one very small and vulnerable planet. Most all have disappeared due to the fragile and precarious and volatile nature of said planet.

Only humans are able to offer ALL life the chance for permanent survival, by seeding the other bodies within the solar system with it.
http://www.guardi...n-review

Human history is violent because humans have eliminated all natural attritive elements which would keep our numbers in check, leaving us in constant conflict over resources and reproductive rights.

I don't think that is necessarily true, and certainly not for all sides involved in a war.

american Revolution:
From the colonists perspective, they had plenty resources, but were taxed to the point of slavery by the monarchy,. From the U.K. point of view, they needed the lumber and fisheries resources, but probably not "really" to the point of war. It was more or less pride and power mongering.

WWI and WWII? Not about resources at all. First was escalation after an political assassination. Second was again power mongering and genocide for no good reason, certainly not related to immediate material resources, but rather applied evolution-based Eugenics, which is precisely what the theory of evolution produces in humans when actually applied: violence and racism.

American civil war?

A bit more complicated than that as well. The North had the moral high ground regarding abolishing slavery, but they hypocritically crushed the southern states to oblivion, eventually making most of the population impoverished during the reconstruction era. This is one reason many southern states lagged so far behind in technology and infrastructure right up through most of the 20th century.

Grant and Sherman practiced Total War siege and blitz campaigns which killed, impoverished, and starved at least as many civilians as combatants. In many cases, they didn't even take the resources, they simply burned forests and fields along the way, destroying everything in sight.

At the time, they were considered war heroes by the North and elected president thereafter, but if they were alive today, they'd be tried for war crimes and executed, either by a Federal or international body.

they had plenty resources, but were taxed to the point of slavery

I suppose you would discount Efforts to make these sorts of things happen on Cue, at the proper Time, so that they may produce maximum Benefit with a minimum of disruption? Why did the pope decide to charge for absolution in Germany, thereby sparking the reformation?

The US was intended from the start to be that 'city on the hill'; a new beginning, a Construct where the brightest and most ambitious could be skimmed from around the world and brought here. The revolution was Timed and Initiated to accomplish this.

Further, strife was systematically created abroad, in the Proper areas at the Proper Times, in order to compel these people to leave their obsolete, decaying cultures, and come here.

You have to ponder what Inevitability means, in order to appreciate this Possibility. Joseph and pharaoh appreciated Inevitability. Your god explained it to them. They chose to Plan and Prepare for it.

A bit more complicated than that as well. The North had the moral high ground regarding abolishing slavery, but they hypocritically crushed the southern states to oblivion, eventually making most of the population impoverished

The industrial revolution was making the slave culture obsolete. Indigenous pops had grown to the point where they could provide labor for industry and agriculture.

The slave population had grown to 1/3 the total southern pop. Obviously, this many people could not be released without having some place for them to GO. they would have tended to congregate in southern cities, and in a few gens a separate caribbean culture would have emerged, willing to fight a real civil war.

And so one was Staged. An officer cadre trained at west point and forged in the Mexican war, was split; one cadre went south to assemble large armies of hapless youth who would otherwise fight as guerrillas for decades.
Cont>

Up north, these officers gathered inner city youth who had already begun starting trouble in street gangs. These 2 forces were systematically set against one another in very Controlled and Coordinated fashion.

By the end of the war a strong industrial base had been created in the north, ready to extend itself into a thoroughly ruined south, and labor markets had been drained to accommodate a freed population of 11M former slaves.

And to assist in their demographic redistribution, the KKK was Developed to compel them to relocate whenever their settlements got too big. They were herded just like the rest of us, just like when the Mongols and Huns drove khazars and germanics westward, or when the 30 Years War was Staged to drive Germans out of Europe.

But only those pragmatic and clever enough to accept the Inevitable. The rest felt that sitting tight and praying for salvation was their best choice. Because they were told as much, and they were simple enough to believe it.

this must be big news; it's got two pages already!

Seriously, the article says this has been known for awhile now.

I used to take advantage of my military card to get into balboa park zoo for free; i took advantage of it! The primates(all) were always my favorite, and I'm a cat lover.

I remember this one time one large group with a large group of kids being rather memorable. The kids on both sides of the fence had a great time! The silverback came and put his back against the glass and just hung out. My black jacket confused the silverback at first; at first, he thought I was wearing gorilla hide; but, after awhile, he decided maybe not; of course, he'll never know what plastic is!

i'd keep an eye out for national geographic; that's probably why they havn't shown the video; they're going to make an official video about it!

rich activists

Never heard of people bing both rich and activists.

David Rothschild wants to tax your unlicensed breathing.

Praise Darwans, his teory of evolutions is the righiest ones. Yes the big bangs is true, um, the unvierses evolves, n parallels n multiple dimnensin raelitieis too. Doz Christins who worships sky daddy in duh sky are so dumb for not believings in prophet Darwins, hes me herio. Prophets Darwsin will show duh christins is wrongs about their god stuff n reliduns.. chridins is dumb, they beliueves in jebuz n thats all dey are trolls n stuff. hehe ima watch more anime and beveis and buttsheads more again and then some Dicovery Channel dinosarus cartoons n thens color n my color book of dinsors evolvings n also do newyorks times crossworld pozzles and also doz uh, those whuz that thing that stars with an s puzzle things, like sobukan or somthins? yeah, i love mainstreams liberals climate changing global warming comets can evolve and rocks too lebrAls scientists, they proof the christdins are all dummies who just do nothing bibbling GOD GOD GOD uh hur, I love sex, i love homosex. Im atheist!1

Those christaisna re so sstupid, Why they not beliueve us liberals atheists and sketpics whens we says theyrs was a big bangs fiddeen bildon yeasrs agos? Whyas thats so hards believe? Why noi believs thats evolutions is truths? WHy no believes? See I ssee things get complexer all the times after bomnbs explode bildions of years ago,. I saw it, really, i time travels using the John Titor methods from coast to coast am, george noory proves me that time travel possible,. I listens to mchio kraku talks about parels universes and so i use my mind for time travels and me see stars anz galaxies formings an i saws the big bangs too!!!!!! I SAW IT!I SAW PROGFS WITH MY OWNS MINDS EYES THE KUNDALINIS THIEDS EYES! SEE?! Se this articles proves crhidians is wrong and that rocks and comets can evolves, they just dont wanna believe cuz its a crutch. see smarty apes procves no sky daddies in is in sky. "God is love" thats not good for Chritans to just say all day, they shud say PROPHET DARWIN! atheist

i saw a cat turn into a man yesterdays, it's proofs of evolutins, heee. pay m3 $200,000 to go to my harvard college now cuz me the professor says evolutionis is true and facsinatings, n u cant get ahead if ur a crazy creationsit kook who guys to a dummy lil universities hah, u can only have a good life and be happy if u gimme ur $200,000. oh u hav such nice hair, hey look at this sciens articles on intelligences apes, see, why u not wanna gimme ur $200,000 now? i'm a nice science guy, aren't i? heee. i haves a nice suit don't I? Look at my tie, it's very nice, u wants one like mes one days? GOMME UR $200,000 UR DUMB MIDDLE CLASS IDIOTS.

BUT ITS STILL JUST A FREAKING DEER...

And you're still just a freaking human... most humans I've met are violent, ignorant, and disgusting excuses for "intelligent" life, I see little difference between the common rabble and any Gorilla.

I didn't notice when I posted that, but a perfect example of what I said can be seen right above my post...

Sounds like 'jewelblade' is experiencing some kind of wondrous reality, that doesn't QUITE mesh with the mundane. Those posts look like that person is speeding at a million miles an hour. I guess they are just another person who has taken SOMETHING and suddenly thinks that they have something tremendously important that they just HAVE to share with everybody else. They also probably think that they are making perfect sense (to everyone else) Perhaps they should reread their posted 'contributions' when they have become sober again and look up the definition for 'total idiot' to see how well it fits. Cheers DH66.

P.S. @Deathclock, that's called serendipity. :D And I do heartily agree with you.

Poaching is not the root of the problem, killing poachers therefore would not solve the problem. The problem is systemic poverty, with available resources being hoarded, mismanaged and wasted by international bankers/corporations in charge of the monetary system.

There is no logic in punishing someone for trying to earn a living, when the reason they can't earn a living other ways is systemic oppression.

Kinda late but ...

Oh is that it raven? You sound like a liberal. They always blame society for the drop outs dropping out .. and are eager as hell to take other people's money to help them. Is it help .. or pacification? So ask a drug dealer why he does what he does when he could be making a honest decent living flipping burgers at McDonalds. The gold he's wearing says it all. These guys poach because the money is too enticing, more than they could make doing an honest day's work. These guys are basically human garbage that the soft head and soft heart types want to make excuses for ...