(AP) The more we study animals, the less special we seem.
Baboons can distinguish between written words and gibberish. Monkeys seem to be able to do multiplication. Apes can delay instant gratification longer than a human child can. They plan ahead. They make war and peace. They show empathy. They share.
"It's not a question of whether they think it's how they think," says Duke University scientist Brian Hare. Now scientists wonder if apes are capable of thinking about what other apes are thinking.
The evidence that animals are more intelligent and more social than we thought seems to grow each year, especially when it comes to primates. It's an increasingly hot scientific field with the number of ape and monkey cognition studies doubling in recent years, often with better technology and neuroscience paving the way to unusual discoveries.
This month scientists mapping the DNA of the bonobo ape found that, like the chimp, bonobos are only 1.3 percent different from humans.
Says Josep Call, director of the primate research center at the Max Planck Institute in Germany: "Every year we discover things that we thought they could not do."
Call says one of his recent more surprising studies showed that apes can set goals and follow through with them.
Orangutans and bonobos in a zoo were offered eight possible tools two of which would help them get at some food. At times when they chose the proper tool, researchers moved the apes to a different area before they could get the food, and then kept them waiting as much as 14 hours. In nearly every case, when the apes realized they were being moved, they took their tool with them so they could use it to get food the next day, remembering that even after sleeping. The goal and series of tasks didn't leave the apes' minds.
Call says this is similar to a person packing luggage a day before a trip: "For humans it's such a central ability, it's so important."
For a few years, scientists have watched chimpanzees in zoos collect and store rocks as weapons for later use. In May, a study found they even add deception to the mix. They created haystacks to conceal their stash of stones from opponents, just like nations do with bombs.
Hare points to studies where competing chimpanzees enter an arena where one bit of food is hidden from view for only one chimp. The chimp that can see the hidden food, quickly learns that his foe can't see it and uses that to his advantage, displaying the ability to perceive another ape's situation. That's a trait humans develop as toddlers, but something we thought other animals never got, Hare said.
And then there is the amazing monkey memory.
At the National Zoo in Washington, humans who try to match their recall skills with an orangutan's are humbled. Zoo associate director Don Moore says: "I've got a Ph.D., for God's sake, you would think I could out-think an orang and I can't."
In French research, at least two baboons kept memorizing so many pictures several thousand that after three years researchers ran out of time before the baboons reached their limit. Researcher Joel Fagot at the French National Center for Scientific Research figured they could memorize at least 10,000 and probably more.
And a chimp in Japan named Ayumu who sees strings of numbers flash on a screen for a split-second regularly beats humans at accurately duplicating the lineup. He's a YouTube sensation, along with orangutans in a Miami zoo that use iPads.
It's not just primates that demonstrate surprising abilities.
Dolphins, whose brains are 25 percent heavier than humans, recognize themselves in a mirror. So do elephants. A study in June finds that black bears can do primitive counting, something even pigeons have done, by putting two dots before five, or 10 before 20 in one experiment.
The trend in research is to identify some new thinking skill that chimps can do, revealing that certain abilities are "not uniquely human," said Emory University primatologist Frans de Waal. Then the scientists find that same ability in other primates further removed from humans genetically. Then they see it in dogs and elephants.
"Capacities that we think in humans are very special and complex are probably not so special and not so complex," de Waal said. "This research in animals elevates the animals, but it also brings down the humans.... If monkeys can do it and maybe dogs and other animals, maybe it's not as complex as you think."
At Duke, professor Elizabeth Brannon shows videos of monkeys that appear to be doing a "fuzzy representation" of multiplication by following the number of dots that go into a box on a computer screen and choosing the right answer to come out of the box. This is after they've already done addition and subtraction.
This spring in France, researchers showed that six baboons could distinguish between fake and real four-letter words BRRU vs KITE, for example. And they chose to do these computer-based exercises of their own free will, either for fun or a snack.
It was once thought the control of emotions and the ability to empathize and socialize separated us from our primate cousins. But chimps console, and fight, each other. They also try to soothe an upset companion, grooming and putting their arms around him.
"I see plenty of empathy in my chimpanzees," de Waal said. But studies have shown they also go to war against neighboring colonies, killing the males and taking the females. That's something that also is very human and led people to believe that war-making must go back in our lineage 6 million years, de Waal said.
When scientists look at our other closest relative, the bonobo, they see a difference. Bonobos don't kill. Hare says his experiments show bonobos give food to newcomer bonobos, even when they could choose to keep all the food themselves.
One reason scientists are learning more about animal intellect is computers, including touch screens. In some cases, scientists are setting up banks of computers available to primates 24-7. In the French word recognition experiment, Fagot found he got more and better data when it was the baboons' choice to work.
Animal cognition researcher Steve Ross at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago agrees.
"The apes in our case seem to be working better when they have that control, that choice to perform," he said.
Brain scans on monkeys and apes also have helped correct mistaken views about ape brain power. It was once thought the prefrontal cortex, the area in charge of higher reasoning, was disproportionately larger than the rest of the brain only in humans, giving us a cognitive advantage, Hare said. But imaging shows that monkey and ape prefrontal cortexes have that same larger scale, he said.
What's different is that the human communication system in the prefrontal cortex is more complex, Hare said.
So there are limits to what non-human primates can do. Animals don't have the ability to communicate with the complexity of human language. In the French study, the baboons can recognize that the letters KITE make a word because through trial and error they learn which letters tend to go together in what order. But the baboons don't have a clue of what KITE means. It's that gap that's key.
"The boundaries are not as sharp as people think, but there are certain things you can't overcome and language is one of them," said Columbia University animal cognition researcher Herbert Terrace.
And that leads to another difference, Ross said. Because apes lack language skills, they learn by watching and mimicking. Humans teach with language and explanation, which is faster and better, Ross said.
Some of the shifts in scientific understanding of animals are leading to ethical debates. When Emory University researcher Lori Marino in 2001 co-wrote a groundbreaking study on dolphins recognizing themselves in mirrors, proving they have a sense of self similar to humans, she had a revelation.
"The more you learn about them, the more you realize that they do have the capacity and characteristics that we think of as a person," Marino said. "I think it's impossible to ignore the ethical implications of these kinds of findings."
After the two dolphins she studied died when transferred to another aquarium, she decided never to work on captive dolphins again. She then became a science adviser to the Nonhuman Rights Project, which seeks legal rights or status for animals. The idea, Marino said, is to get animals such as dolphins "to be deemed a person, not property."
The intelligence of primates was one of the factors behind a report last year by the Institute of Medicine that said the National Institutes of Health should reduce dramatically the number of chimpanzees it uses in biomedical research.
The NIH is working on new guidelines that would further limit federal medical chimpanzee use down from its current few dozen chimps at any given time, said NIH program planning chief James Anderson. Chimps are a special case, with their use "very, very limited," he said. But he raises the question: "What happens if your child is sick or your mother is dying" and animal research might lead to a cure?
The issue is more about animal welfare and giving them the right "not to be killed, not to be tortured, not to be confined unnecessarily" than giving them legal standing, said David DeGrazia, a philosophy and ethics professor at George Washington University.
Hare says that focusing on animal rights ignores the problem of treatment of chimps in research settings. He contends that for behavioral studies and even for many medical research tests they could be kept in zoos or sanctuaries rather than labs.
Animals performing tasks in near-natural habitats "is like an Ivy League college" for the apes, Hare said. "We're going to see them do stunning and sophisticated things."
Explore further:
'Peter Pan' Apes Never Seem To Learn Selfishness

Squirrel
1.4 / 5 (29) Jun 24, 2012Similarities can always be found by ignoring degree of skill and sentimentality can play such forced "similarities" into claims that apes are not so different but below the surface what humans do with their brains, each other and the rest of the world is alien to anything done elsewhere in nature.
slayerwulfe
1.7 / 5 (10) Jun 24, 2012DavidW
3.1 / 5 (21) Jun 24, 2012I didnt get nonsense out of it. It seemed pretty balanced for further clarifying observations.
This may be a current an accurate observation for you, but the observations of others are no less real.
Can, is not the answer to why. We are alive and they are alive. We cannot change the past and they cannot change the past. They are animals and we are animals. In these ways, we are completely identical in every sane human mind there is on this planet and its completely free of the, "can" as in, "Can we still find excuses to enslave, torture, rape, and murder animals for the sole needless purpose of self-gratification?"
We only have a right to life as human animals by life being the first self-evident truth. The animals also share this truth with us. The most thing in life is life. Compassion is truth manifest.
Terriva
2.4 / 5 (20) Jun 24, 2012Deadbolt
3.4 / 5 (20) Jun 24, 2012However, if you pitted a human against a chimp in a series of logical puzzles designed to test general intelligence, and allowed the human no outside knowledge, it's not clear to me who would come out best.
Can a human outsmart a chimp?
Telekinetic
3.2 / 5 (13) Jun 24, 2012It may be in the explanation.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (12) Jun 24, 2012"you don't speak or understand squirrel so squirrel does not exist" - Slayer
Vendicar_Decarian
4.1 / 5 (13) Jun 24, 2012You have it exactly right. Bang on. Congratulations.
We use our inner monologue to organize a mishmash of sensory modeling into a linear chain of actions and or logical inferences that can be recorded, transmitted to others, and analyzed on a step by step basis for correctness, and modified should an error or better plan of action be found.
Complex language is the key organizer in our mind that has allowed us to understand and exploit the world around us, and as our technical capacity improves, our language continues to evolve into a more technical, more precise formulation.
Telekinetic
2.5 / 5 (16) Jun 24, 2012Vendicar_Decarian
3.2 / 5 (10) Jun 24, 2012I use either concentrated plant protein, or eat as low on the food chain as possible, excluding fish (unfortunately).
I will eat chicken, because they are dumber than rats.
"I decided to put an end to my eating meat, because it's becoming more evident through research like this that it is wrong." - telekinetic
BikeToAustralia
2.4 / 5 (10) Jun 24, 2012Everything everywhere deserves respect. Those closer to 'home' will get more respect. It is natural. We give more (of what we value) to our children than we give to someone else's child. "Our kind" gets preferential treatment, it is inevitable.
It would not be natural to stop experimenting on apes and dolphins, but instead experiment on humans of another color, religion, country or sex. Why would we? Only if we care more about accurate results than ethics and morals. Scary thoughts.
But, why do we NEED to experiment harmfully? Are we not creative enough to learn and explore without breaking and mutilating what is fundamentally NOT "ours"?
verkle
Jun 24, 2012Telekinetic
3.2 / 5 (16) Jun 24, 2012Christians have bastardized the teachings of a sage to the point of them being unrecognizable. He would be rolling in his grave to see what's been going on in his name.
HatersGonnaHate
2.7 / 5 (16) Jun 24, 2012A great example are the posts that Vendicar Decarian makes. Clearly a monkey, and commenting on a physics site. Years ago nobody would have thought this was possible.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.4 / 5 (7) Jun 24, 2012"And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature." - Genesis 2.7
Vendicar_Decarian
1.9 / 5 (11) Jun 24, 2012"A great example are the posts that Vendicar Decarian makes. Clearly a monkey, and commenting on a physics site." - HatersGonnaHate
Hate yourself for being vastly inferior.
HatersGonnaHate
2 / 5 (16) Jun 24, 2012Kind Regards
ziphead
2.5 / 5 (10) Jun 24, 2012And if a hungry wild boar comes across your sorry arse somewhere in the wild, you think it would be put off by a moral dilemma?
Empathy serves purpose in the evolutionary sense only if it is bidirectional. So, enjoy the perks of being on top of the food chain; it may not last.
Vendicar_Decarian
1.9 / 5 (11) Jun 24, 2012"Oh I don't hate you." - HatersGonnaHate
Now lets work on your self loathing shall we? When did it start? When you realized that your daddy was boffing your mommie and you weren't getting any?
"As a matter of fact I pity you. " - HatersGonnaHate
Yes, my vast intellect is often a burden. I suffer greatly due to the constant exposure to intellectual inferiors such as yourself.
Worry not. I tread carefully around the infirm and the little people.
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (9) Jun 24, 2012"And if a hungry wild boar comes across your sorry arse somewhere in the wild, you think it would be put off by a moral dilemma?" - ziphead
"Empathy serves purpose in the evolutionary sense only if it is bidirectional." - Ziphead
I will remind you of that should you ever be dying in agony.
la7dfa
3.5 / 5 (8) Jun 24, 2012Why have we wandered the earth so long, and first now learned this?
We can blame retarded religions for at least half of our stupidity .
PussyCat_Eyes
1.4 / 5 (10) Jun 24, 2012There was once a story that the great granddaddy of all squirrel's way back when, had developed a language and planned to teach it to his children. But his plans went awry when he accidentally entered the wrong burrow and got eaten by a snake. The End.
Telekinetic
1.4 / 5 (9) Jun 24, 2012Wild boars don't eat people. Secondly, empathy is a refinement of human character, whether it's reciprocated or not. I have empathy to a degree for those with zip in their heads.
Turritopsis
2.1 / 5 (13) Jun 25, 2012Vegan/vegetarian diets can be a healthy alternative ONLY when food is carefully selected and combined to satisfy the nutritional requirements. Otherwise, these diets can be very dangerous to human beings.
Turritopsis
2.6 / 5 (14) Jun 25, 2012Nyloc
4.3 / 5 (6) Jun 25, 2012Yes, we have a unique ability to share ideas through symbols, and we have invented machines to make us more sensitive with scents than dogs, sound than bats, sight than owls, etc. Yet all other creatures have found a way to live sustainably on this planet, which we have yet been "smart" enough to do.
HatersGonnaHate
2.1 / 5 (15) Jun 25, 2012Kind Regards
sirchick
2.5 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2012It would be great to have a talking dog wouldn't it :D
Vendicar_Decarian
1.7 / 5 (6) Jun 25, 2012"I rather like it that granola eaters like Venereal Disease opt out of eating meat." - HatersGonnaHate
Yes, he is correct for hating himself because he is inferior.
HatersGonnaHate
2.2 / 5 (13) Jun 25, 2012I'm not the one that stuffed you into that locker every day between second and third period. Your emotional distress is understandable but your anger is misplaced. Maybe a nice steak will make you happy.
Kind Regards
elektron
1.9 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012Indeed if we were to one day discover an alien species (not that I think this day will arrive) that was also aware of it's own awareness then, in this respect it could be defined as 'human'.
PS3
2.6 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012boater805
2.5 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012An interesting theory. I have packed knife and fork and I'm off to the BBQ to do more research (I only hope my government grant comes through).
alfie_null
4 / 5 (4) Jun 25, 2012UleeUggams
4 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2012It would be great to have a talking dog wouldn't it :D
OMG I have seen a dog that could growl simple words it scared the hell out of me. it could growl " I want out" plain as day
kevinrtrs
1.2 / 5 (18) Jun 25, 2012Surely if humans "evolved" then there is no such thing as having been "designed". Evolution by it's very definition excludes such a notion.
If you can see the design in the digestive system, then you are implying there's a designer. Perhaps you'd better hide from all the vitriol you'll receive from commentators who disagree with you.
So just HOW do you explain the digestive system in this context?
On another note, I find it interesting that some people who believe in evolution want to go back to the directions given in the Genesis chapter and resort to eating only vegetarian meals. This reversion being on the basis of morality/ethics. There is no such things in the evolutionary model because there is no absolute standard of moral behaviour there. All things arose spontaneously and at random, so where would morality come from and who does it answer to? The two don't agree - evolution requires no morals.
Telekinetic
2.6 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012Because we're conscious beings, our conscience has evolved along the way with our physical characteristics. Human morality is innate and instinctual. We have a physical reaction to wrong-doing if we're healthy. There are also laws written from human minds in most civilizations that codify this innate sensibility. I also think that infants are born with these instincts, only to become distorted in adulthood by the neurotic and manipulative forces of the nuclear family, social anxieties, and religious dogma. The immediate victims are women, children, animals, and the environment, but we all suffer in the end.
DavidW
2.7 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012That's not true. The real truth is that man has been consuming flesh for about a million years. Before that we were not considered man by current science. The previous 7-8 million years was 100% herbivore.
The number 1 killer in the USA is heart disease. Any unbalanced diet is unhealthy. So, what's your point? Because we can eat unhealthy we are suppose to kill for no reason other than personal gratifcation and lying to our own selves?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (13) Jun 25, 2012DavidW
2.2 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012That comment is not truthful. We can't chew raw flesh. My evidence? Try. :) This is self-evident in the highest degree.
Guess what else? The number one cause of choking to death for humans is on flesh. Dogs and bears, omnivores, dont have this problem.
Your response is filled with fantastic statements to deny the truth. We are not supposed to be vegans. We are supposed to follow the truth. The truth says that we did kill each other for a very long time. This is not an excuse to continue killing each other anymore than to continue killing and harming animals for the sole purpose of personal gratification.
Turritopsis
2.2 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012Most of the domesticated foods available to eat do not resemble those we evolved on, being constantly selected for quantity vs quality. Your veggies are devoid of nutrients and full of contaminents. Grasses for instance were the last things a hunter/gatherer would eat as they take the most energy to gather and prepare vs the energy they provide.
Grasses are not something we should be eating, and gluten alone may be the main reason for the obesity epidemic.
and7barton
1 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 201213 hours ago
Didn't Jehova formeth the monkey -- dust from the ground???
Ah ! - Ground monkey-dust, sprinkle it on your salad !
Milou
1 / 5 (6) Jun 25, 2012Are we justified eating or experimenting with another live "mind"? I have no further comments???
PBeaudoin
1.4 / 5 (5) Jun 25, 2012DavidW
1.7 / 5 (9) Jun 25, 2012Excuses to behave as a pedophile. Quit pissing down my back and telling me it's raining.
Vendicar_Decarian
1.4 / 5 (5) Jun 25, 2012"I'm not the one that stuffed you into that locker every day between second and third period." - HatersGonnaHate
Is there anything other than hate that makes you fabricate such nonsense?
If you need to hate something... Hate yourself for being an inferior.
DavidW
2.6 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012None of us can change the past. This is truth. Therefore the truth is we are equal under the truth. Please stop calling yourself inferior. We are all important because the most important self-evident truth says we are, and no for no other reason. It is enough for us to be equally important, however our own importance is never above the truth.
Telekinetic
2.8 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012" Wild boar are omnivorous and will consume a large variety of food items. Typically, plant material accounts for 90% of their diet and animal matter the remaining 10%. Plant matter consists of roots, bulbs and tubers (unearthed by rooting with their long snouts) and fruit and berries. Animal matter can consist of mice, birds eggs, snakes, lizards, worms, beetles and centipedes and carrion. The diet changes to accommodate seasonally available items and forest fruits (for example, acorns, beech mast, chestnuts, olives) are particularly important in the autumn as these protein rich foods enable the sows to be in peak breeding condition. In times of shortage, agricultural crops may be raided, particularly fields of maize, turnips and potatoes."
Chances are slim to none that you'll ever come across a wild boar unless you're hunting, and they generally avoid humans unless threatened or cornered. Their habitat is under stress from human activity.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.4 / 5 (14) Jun 25, 2012And why is it we are supposed to eat fermented milk meant for baby cows? Does god eat this too? Anybody else have comments on gods poor design abilities? The appendix?
No I know the reason we suffer Kevin - eve ate the pomegranate. So she bleeds once a month and we have spastic colons right?
wiyosaya
5 / 5 (1) Jun 25, 2012This also happens with animals. Take, for instance, the monkeys in Japan that bathe in the warm springs. They learn(ed) this from other monkeys. http://news.natio...eys.html
wiyosaya
3 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2012Sounds like you believe this cannot be applied to animals. Interesting.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (12) Jun 25, 2012Altruism within tribes is evolutionarily selected for.
http://rechten.el...RID2.pdf
-Similarly, in the context of individuals, families, and tribes, animosity toward enemies is MORAL and selected for.
PussyCat_Eyes
1.5 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012Experience is the best teacher, for sure. But I, for one, will forego all other flesh except for these 4, namely, the pig, chicken, steer, and saltwater fish. Everything else is safe from my palate, except for strawberries and other fruits and veggies. No chimps will ever pass my lips, I can guarantee that.
:)
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012http://en.wikiped..._culture
How many religionists don't know their own book?
"18Â I also said to myself, As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19Â Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals." ecc3
-Of course Ecclesiastes was only meant for priests.
HatersGonnaHate
1.8 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012Venereal,
Your definition of "likely" is rather amusing. Considering we all know this locker situation to be the absolute and unadulterated truth. But I don't doubt you were sought out by the football team. You most certainly would have been an outstanding water boy had you accepted the head coach's offer.
Citrus
1 / 5 (6) Jun 25, 2012Telekinetic
1.7 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012Shouldn't you be on facebook with an insipid post like that?
PussyCat_Eyes
1.7 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012Or he could've been the football.
Turritopsis
2.2 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012I was a strict vegan a while back. Found the diet hard to adhere to since I love eating meat. I have the utmost respect for vegans because the lifestyle is not an easy one to execute in a healthy manner.
I love sashimi. I'm not forcing you to eat it. I respect the food chain. I don't look down on lions for being carnivorous. I don't think less of buffalos for being herbivores.
You want to be a purist vegan that's fine with me. I don't care what you think of my dietary choices. You don't have to like it. I'm just presenting facts.
Meat is nutritious for human beings, and a meat based diet is a healthy lifestyle choice.
Telekinetic
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 25, 2012"A new species of ass was also detected on the Russian Plains and appears to be related to European fossils dating back more than 1.5 million years. Carbon dates on the bones reveal that this species was alive as recently as 50,000 years ago."
Looks like they discovered your ancestors, Citrus. Who are you, besides the sockpuppet "Citrus"?
Telekinetic
1.8 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012"Eating red and processed meat associated with increased risk of death-
Individuals who eat more red meat and processed meat appear to have a modestly increased risk of death from all causes and also from cancer or heart disease over a 10-year period, according to a report in the March 23 issue ...
Medicine & Health / Health
Turritopsis
1.8 / 5 (10) Jun 25, 2012The problem here is not red meat in the diet. The problem is eating in larger quantities than the body requires and a sedentary lifestyle.
Telekinetic
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 25, 2012"any amount and any type -- appears to significantly increase the risk of premature death, according to a long-range study that examined the eating habits and health of more than 110,000 adults for more than 20 years.
For instance, adding just one 3-ounce serving of unprocessed red meat -- picture a piece of steak no bigger than a deck of cards -- to one's daily diet was associated with a 13% greater chance of dying during the course of the study."
Turritopsis
1.5 / 5 (8) Jun 25, 2012Red meat is regarded as unhealthy because of saturated fats, but saturated fats are necessary for biological processes, such as for energy and hormone production.
Again, the problem is not meat (including red meat), but sedentary lifestyles and overeating.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (1) Jun 25, 2012For example: manufacturing the lie that Obama is a Muslim and then expressing their religious intolerance in the form of hate directed at him.
Or in their manufacture of the claim that he isn't an American, when his birth certificate has been validated multiple times by his birth state.
"Considering we all know this locker situation to be the absolute and unadulterated truth." - HatersGonnaHate
Yes... Rage... Hate... Hate yourself for being the inferior that you are.
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (6) Jun 25, 2012And my statement was much broader than the "red and processed meats" that you have lead the discussion into.
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (6) Jun 26, 2012Red meat is getting a bad rap but it is undeserved, red meat is very healthy and full of necessary nutrients.
The study you point to is garbage. The red meat is not the cause of early death, but instead the early diers just choose to eat red meat.
Turritopsis
1.9 / 5 (9) Jun 26, 2012HatersGonnaHate
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 26, 2012I've yet to lie on this comment section. You, on the other hand tried to make us believe that an athletic organization showed interest in you. This is as laughable as the claim that you aren't a known pedophile.
Kind Regards
Mike_Massen
1.4 / 5 (9) Jun 26, 2012Verkle, please get with the program, a bible isnt any sort of Science, it has No discipline whatsoever... And any comments made by such bible can be interpreted so widely its not a good source of information at all...
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 27, 2012Red meat is full of fat and additives. We desire it because it was a major food for a million years and our innards are adapted to it. But the stuff we have to eat today is not what we used to hunt.
Consider the amount of effort it took to stalk and kill and butcher and transport a water buffalo or a mammoth. The people who did this had to be in prime shape. They were able to do it because of the nutrient density of the stuff they ate.
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (5) Jun 27, 2012I wouldn't say none of it, but it is a gross generalization on my part, I'll admit, this was more of a rant than anything. It's not a price per quantity thing (although, some of the time that is the case). Truth is, people choose red meat because it is tasty. So I agree with you, the first paragraph (the one you quoted), is not so true. I wouldn't say that 'none of it is true', but I can't say it is 100% true for 100% of the cases.
I completely agree with the rest of your post though. I think it would be a great idea to stick a large conveyor belt underneath our livestock to keep them running, and to feed them high quality food. The healthier our food, the healthier we'll be.
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (6) Jun 27, 2012Turritopsis
1 / 5 (6) Jun 27, 2012Telekinetic
1 / 5 (6) Jun 27, 2012You know nothing of which you speak, Turritopsis. You're not an expert or in the least bit qualified to make pronouncements about what is safe to eat. You're an imbecile to contradict scientific evidence that red meat is bad for your health. It's outrageous, really, that you dismiss a study of over 100,000 people over 20 years as garbage. I think the meat you're eating must be affecting your brain.
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (6) Jun 28, 2012So there's your solution.
Turritopsis
1.1 / 5 (7) Jun 28, 2012There is no scientific evidence that backs this up. The evidence shows that red meat is found in the diets of less healthy people. There is a difference.
Turritopsis
1.2 / 5 (6) Jun 28, 2012Turritopsis
1.2 / 5 (6) Jun 28, 2012The most thorough article as it contains a consortium of opinions, both positive and negative from multiple professionals on the subject.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Jun 28, 2012Turritopsis
1 / 5 (5) Jun 28, 2012We do know what is in there. That is the reason we know that they are pumped with hormones, we run tests on the meat.
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (6) Jun 28, 2012Turritopsis
1.7 / 5 (6) Jun 28, 2012Just some food for thought.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 28, 2012http://www.kmov.c...195.html
-We do not know what we are lacking but a possible way to find out would be to study pleistocene diets, including seasonal variations, and including things like bush meat. Cannibalism was a lot more common than we may want to admit because of the state of chronic tribal warfare that accompanied our evolution, and of the interchangeability of hunting and fighting. Humans are immune to certain prions most likely as a result of the consumption of human flesh. And ape meat is as close to human meat as one can get. It is a favorite of many african indigenes and very difficult to get them to give up.
http://www.bushme...ode/2258
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 28, 2012http://www.amazon...s=Before the Dawn%3A Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 28, 2012http://en.wikiped..._animals
-Their internal chemistry is drastically different. They are sedentary their whole lives which alters their metabolism and immune systems. They have been subjected to diseases unique to, and arising from, domestication; and their immune systems, like ours, are overactive and self-destructive.
They are forced to live in environments which they would shun in the wild. This changes their mental state which further alters their chemistry and internal biome.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 28, 2012http://www.youtub...dIzIuYkc
"the average human bacterial load is approximately 2 to 9 pounds..."
-And what about this relationship in the animals we consume? How does it affect us? And how has the process of domestication altered it, even before we started pumping livestock full of antibiotics?
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (5) Jun 28, 2012-By this I mean in relation to the quality of meat outside of North America.
But excellent points Otto.
Turritopsis
1.9 / 5 (7) Jun 28, 2012The interest of corporations is not to produce healthy cattle, but to profit. This is the root of the problem.
10,000 years ago our bovine spent nights sleeping in barns (Domesticated). During the day they were taken out to pasture (which still takes place in many parts of the world).
The problem is clearly profit maximizing practices. Pump them full of hormones so they're ready for slaughter sooner and so there is more meat to sell. Confine them into as small of a space as possible and minimize expenditure.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (8) Jun 28, 2012Hunter gatherers were and are smarter and healthier than we are because they consume what they evolved to consume.
http://en.wikiped...hic_diet
http://www.time.c...,00.html
http://www.kajama...ageNum=1
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (6) Jun 28, 2012Turritopsis
1.6 / 5 (7) Jun 28, 2012Although not optimal, our hormone full foods are not as bad as they're demonized to be.
You want to be healthier? Reduce stress. Exercise. Practice portion control.
You could go out hunting and kill a sickly animal by mistake. At this point you're better off going with hormone filled meats. At least they're tested for illness and treated with antibiotics.
Exercise will utilize the saturated fats you ingest as energy. The proteins will help rebuild muscle tissue.
blackwel
1 / 5 (3) Jun 28, 2012Anorion
1 / 5 (3) Jun 30, 2012proof, they even post comments on phys org,
you probably seen their comments sometime, they called kevin, verkl, julien,....
perrycomo
1 / 5 (8) Jun 30, 2012casualjoe
not rated yet Jun 30, 2012The same could be said for a lot of humans too.
SatanLover
1 / 5 (4) Jun 30, 2012A2G
1 / 5 (5) Jul 01, 2012http://www.washin...ory.html
DavidW
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 07, 2012Have you seen the evidence? Most people cry. Ever seen a cow ground alive? A pig disemboweled alive? A dog put in an oven alive? By asking others to do our killing the killers become desensitized and become completely brutal.
When we are sick/addicted and/or deceived the human brain seeks out fantastic excuses to justify our behavior.
We cannot justify needlessly killing animals that we bred to be eaten any more then we can justify killing each other because we have done it in the past. Neither can be justified and so are not truthful to do. We must not attempt to place ourselves above the truth. Attempting to do so is as fantastic as saying, I am not alive, or that, I can change the past. Its not truthful reality. Truth comes first, 100%. Whatever people have done in the past is irrelevant. If it is needless and still done then it is deception and/or sickness. Look!