'Economic violence' caused RBS to fail, new study suggests

Jun 25, 2012

University academics look at bank's management and discover why the bank failed. The management style adopted by former senior executives at the Royal Bank of Scotland amounted to ’economic violence’ used to build their reputation and win City backing for their disastrous expansion of RBS, according to an in-depth study by management experts from Newcastle University Business School and the University of Leicester.

The authors of the study use the term ’economic violence‘ to describe a style of leadership based on threatening employees with redundancy and forcing them to meet aggressive sales targets.

This led to the destruction of the company as individuals became embroiled in a battle for status against leaders of rival financial institutions that distracted them from severe problems within their own bank, according to the research published in the journal Organization Studies.

The ongoing study charting the rise and fall of RBS provides an alternative explanation for the failure of the bank, based on the disciplines of management and social science rather than solely economics. The 2008 collapse of RBS was one of the key events in the UK’s credit crunch.

Dr Robinson and co-author, Ron Kerr, Lecturer in Organisational Studies at Newcastle University Business School, begin by showing how the traditional old guard of Scottish banking, educated at elite public schools and Oxbridge, were supplanted as the top executives by ‘modernisers’ from more humble backgrounds.

Ron Kerr said: “Previous executives at RBS had retained power by relying on ’symbolic violence’. The expression, coined by the French sociologist Pierre Bourdieu, means the creation by leaders of the belief among those they lead, that the subordinate position is just and natural.

“However, within RBS the modernisers instead wielded what the authors call ’economic violence’ to acquire and retain their leading role – a variation on Bourdieu’s “symbolic violence”. This meant a form of leadership that operated through the threat of destroying people’s economic power by laying them off or forcing them to meet aggressive sales targets.”

“A management culture of overt economic violence within RBS’ Scottish headquarters translated into the cultural capital that management would use in their battles for power in the City of London”, suggests Sarah Robinson, Senior Lecturer in Management and Organisation Studies at the University of Leicester School of Management. “Competition among banking leaders for legitimacy within the field triggered irrational behaviour, which contributed to the financial crisis.”

Dr Robinson said: “RBS executives’ reputation for economic violence counted as ‘capital’ in the City of London”.

She suggests this reputation helped RBS secure City backing for the takeover of ABN Amro, the Dutch bank. This acquisition completed RBS’ transformation from a Scottish into a national UK financial institution, and finally an international banking behemoth.

However, during this expansion RBS executives “missed problems of ‘toxic assets’ and bad debt in RBS” because they were distracted by attempts “to legitimate themselves by competing successfully against the English elite banking leaders”.

Explore further: The significance of digits: just how reliable are reported numbers?

More information: "From Symbolic Violence to Economic Violence: The Globalizing of the Scottish Banking Elite," Organization Studies, February 2012, 33(2) 247-266

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User comments : 101

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CapitalismPrevails
1.5 / 5 (15) Jun 25, 2012
"University ACADEMICS look at bank's management and discover why the bank failed." All i have to say is that's amusing.
frajo
5 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2012
UNIVERSITY academics, not university ACADEMICS.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (16) Jun 25, 2012
"economic violence"
What BS.
In a free market, people can be fired at will.
If the RBS is successful with this strategy it is only because they have the power of the govt to protect them by preventing competition.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.2 / 5 (11) Jun 25, 2012
Which is another reason why free markets do not serve the interest of people.

"In a free market, people can be fired at will." - RyggTard

Well done Tard Boy. Well done.
xX_GT_Xx
4.6 / 5 (9) Jun 25, 2012
Management that uses aggressive negative reinforcement only ever accomplishes two things: They demotivate their talent, and they trigger survival instincts in everyone else.
The survival instincts never, never, include boosting one's performance. Never. Did I mention never?

To survive, one seeks shelter from the threat. A few may challenge the threat, and some subset of that group may even succeed. But they have a higher mortality rate. This reinforces the belief that hiding is the better tactic overall.

The workday quickly devolves into a day spent devising threat assessment strategies. Avoid visibility. Deflect blame, seize credit. Lie. Kiss-ass your way into the good graces of someone who can shield you.

None of this is groundbreaking economic theory. It's just office politics.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (15) Jun 25, 2012
They demotivate their talent, and they trigger survival instincts in everyone else.

And if the company is protected by the govt, it's not called the Royal Bank of Scotland for nothing, there are no competitors for the talent to escape to.
extinct
2.1 / 5 (12) Jun 25, 2012
i'm looking forward to the failure of all banks. once the world operates on something other than money, we might start getting somewhere.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.2 / 5 (9) Jun 25, 2012
Of course RyggTard has no evidence that the bank was protected by Government. But he is so obsessed with his hate for the people governing themselves, that he continually fabricates stories implicating government in fictional crimes.

He is a True Blue Libertarian.

"And if the company is protected by the govt." - RyggTard

I have never encountered a Libertarian who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

RyggTard is no exception.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.1 / 5 (8) Jun 25, 2012
There is no problem with money being a means to facilitate the exchnage of goods and services. But the manipulation of money for the purpose of profit, or the fixation on acquiring money above all else is a deep sickness that has greatly damaged society and human morality.


"once the world operates on something other than money" - extinct
xX_GT_Xx
4.7 / 5 (6) Jun 25, 2012
Money = A useful common medium of exchange. If civilization abandoned currency and used instead, I don't know, good intentions, that would still be a common medium of exchange and therefore money.

Someone would eventually figure out how to control that too. It's all just one form of hydraulic despotism or another. The trick is to diversify. The less you rely on one particular resource (or medium of exchange), the less the people that control that reseource (or medium of exchange) have power over you.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (17) Jun 25, 2012
i'm looking forward to the failure of all banks. once the world operates on something other than money, we might start getting somewhere.

Money is the greatest invention of man.
Why do you think govts want to control it?
Govts control ALL money, except Somali currency.
So why do you blame banks for the acts of the govt?
Unless you are a socialist and want to be controlled by the state?
Caliban
3.7 / 5 (6) Jun 25, 2012
i'm looking forward to the failure of all banks. once the world operates on something other than money, we might start getting somewhere.

Money is the greatest invention of man.
Why do you think govts want to control it?


Another idiotic proclamation from riggsuckn. Money is most definitely not the "greatest invention of man".

That honor most high is held by ice cream.

Moron.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.2 / 5 (9) Jun 26, 2012
Yes. I can certainly see how a loathsome money grubber might think that.

Rational people would probably choose language, or cooking, or perhaps the wheel or the lever or counting.

How could money grubbers ever manage to count their money without counting having been invented?

"Money is the greatest invention of man." - RyggTard

Is it any wonder why America is dying when Libertarians like Tard Boy here, have stealthfully taken over the Republican party?

The Republican Enemy will not be defeated until the nature of the Republican Enemy is identified and understood.

Vendicar_Decarian
3.1 / 5 (10) Jun 26, 2012
Incorrect.

"The trick is to diversify." - xX

Modern Socialist society provides a means of surviving well independent of income. So the trick is to ignore wealth as a goal and work for the betterment of yourself and others, while supporting the socialist system that has minimized corporate slavery. and of course also work to minimize the corporate slavery even further.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.7 / 5 (7) Jun 26, 2012
Absolute idiocy.

"Govts control ALL money, except Somali currency." - RyggTard

Tard Boy has much bad wiring in that peanut he calls a brain.
But he is a true, blue Libertarian.
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (12) Jun 26, 2012
"So why do I think money is the greatest invention of all time? Well, without it, most subsequent inventions would not be possible. You cannot build a moon rocket without money. Bartering chickens or eggs for a Saturn-V booster just is not practical. So any major undertaking of mankind usually requires some sort of money or money-like medium of exchange. Money allowed the creation of modern societies. Money allowed us as Humans to do things other than scratch in the soil all day long. Money allows me to sit here and type this blog, rather than be out hunting for food all day long."
"Money also allows us as humans to time-shift wealth. In many more primitive societies, people try to have as many children as possible in order to insure that in their old age, they will be cared for. Overpopulation has often been the result of this practice. "
http://livingstin...ney.html
Ehrlich disciples should LOVE money.
xX_GT_Xx
4 / 5 (6) Jun 26, 2012
Socialism (and Libertarianism for that matter) requires everyone to live the same ideal, without dissent. Working for the betterment of society, for no reason other than you want to, works great if everyone behaves that way. But as soon as you get even one selfish person in your society, the ideal will collapse.

Since we know for a fact that selfish people exist, there needs to be some way to keep them out to maintain the ideal. Which means there needs to be criteria for keeping people out. Which means there need to be people who decide what those criteria are.

Which means that your oversight committee (or whatever) defines what the ideal is, not the people, and if you don't like it there's the door. Very un-socialist.

There's a reason that Socialist (and Libertarian) ideal societies don't exist, and it's not because of evil government and corporate oppression. It's because they have built-in negative feedback loops.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (14) Jun 26, 2012
Socialism (and Libertarianism for that matter) requires everyone to live the same ideal, without dissent.

No.
Dissent is encouraged in a libertarian society. What is DISCOURAGED in a libertarian society is using the power of the state to stifle dissent OR impose your dissent.
live the same ideal,

In a libertarian society, everyone lives to THEIR ideal, not yours.
there needs to be some way to keep them out to maintain the ideal.

It is called a limited govt that prevents you from imposing YOUR ideal upon me or anyone else by force.
There are no negative feedbacks in society where the state protect each individual's property rights.

rubberman
3 / 5 (8) Jun 26, 2012
Socialism (and Libertarianism for that matter) requires everyone to live the same ideal, without dissent.

No.
Dissent is encouraged in a libertarian society. What is DISCOURAGED in a libertarian society is using the power of the state to stifle dissent OR impose your dissent.
live the same ideal,

In a libertarian society, everyone lives to THEIR ideal, not yours.
there needs to be some way to keep them out to maintain the ideal.

It is called a limited govt that prevents you from imposing YOUR ideal upon me or anyone else by force.
There are no negative feedbacks in society where the state protect each individual's property rights.



Is there a country like this?
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (14) Jun 26, 2012
There is one with a Constitution that is trying.
But socialists like rubber continue to support using violence to impose their views.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.8 / 5 (6) Jun 26, 2012
Yup, without money there would be no wheels, levers, language, roads, etc. etc. etc...

"Well, without it, most subsequent inventions would not be possible" = RyggTard

Of course, all inventions are possible without money.

It is just that money grubbers like Libertarian RyggTrad have such limited mental capacities that they can't conceive of anything but money grubbing.

Vendicar_Decarian
2.8 / 5 (4) Jun 26, 2012
Of course you can.

"You cannot build a moon rocket without money. - RyggTard

You are just jabbering nonsense.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 26, 2012
And if RyggTard wasnt's to screw his underage daughter then hay... that is his right as a free man.

Can't have no evils gubderment tellzen him he can't do it, causen it's his right.

"In a libertarian society, everyone lives to THEIR ideal, not yours." - RyggTard
Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (4) Jun 26, 2012
"There are no wombats, bananas, or spray cheese in society where the state protect each individual's property rights." - Ryggtard

Which of course makes even more sense than his original claim.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (6) Jun 26, 2012
Ryggtard hates government education.

In America here is the kind of for profit private education that is taking it's place...

Thousands of students across the state are eligible to receive publicly funded vouchers to allow them to attend private Christian schools where textbooks published by Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) claim the monster was actually a dinosaur that existed at the same time as man, an assertion which conflicts with the theory of evolution.
Louisiana Private Schools Teach Loch Ness Monster Is Real In Effort To Disprove Evolution Theory

...

http://www.huffin...643.html
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (6) Jun 26, 2012
From the American Private School Textbook.

"Are dinosaurs alive today? Scientists are becoming more convinced of their existence. Have you heard of the `Loch Ness Monster' in Scotland? `Nessie,' for short has been recorded on sonar from a small submarine, described by eyewitnesses, and photographed by others. Nessie appears to be a plesiosaur.
Could a fish have developed into a dinosaur? As astonishing as it may seem, many evolutionists theorize that fish evolved into amphibians and amphibians into reptiles. This gradual change from fish to reptiles has no scientific basis. No transitional fossils have been or ever will be discovered because God created each type of fish, amphibian, and reptile as separate, unique animals. Any similarities that exist among them are due to the fact that one Master Craftsmen fashioned them all."
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.9 / 5 (23) Jun 27, 2012
There is one with a Constitution that is trying.
But socialists like rubber continue to support using violence to impose their views.
-As opposed to capitalists who prefer deception and cronyism eh? I think violence is more honest. If I had a choice. Which I know I dont.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jun 27, 2012
capitalists who prefer deception and cronyism

It is the socialist/'progressive' that deceives and wants the govt to limit competition.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.4 / 5 (5) Jun 27, 2012
Is that why Apple is trying to keep Samsung from selling it's telephones in the U.S. markert?

"It is the socialist/'progressive' that deceives and wants the govt to limit competition." - RyggTard

You haven't answered the question Tard Boy. Why are for profit private schools in the U.S. teaching their students that the Loch Ness monster exists and is a dinosaur?

Such is the quality of for profit education.
Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (4) Jun 28, 2012
RyggTard doesn't seem to have the mental capacity to answer questions.

It exists only to parrot the Libertarian party line.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.9 / 5 (23) Jun 28, 2012
capitalists who prefer deception and cronyism

It is the socialist/'progressive' that deceives and wants the govt to limit competition.
No PR and advertising are inventions of marketeers.

But you are right deception is so much more effective than force, which is why Sun Tsu said it was all of war.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Jun 28, 2012
deception is so much more effective than force,

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Why do socialists keep calling people stupid when they want them to vote for them?
I guess that's why the socialists need to use force, to stay in power, once the stupid people voted them in.
Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (4) Jun 28, 2012
A more interesting question is why Private American Schools are teaching students that evolution is a fraud and that the Loch Ness monster exists and is a Dinosaur.

"Why do socialists keep calling people stupid when they want them to vote for them?" - RyggTard

Any thoughts on that Tard Boy?
Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 28, 2012
And RyggTard still hasn't told us why the originator of his Liedeology - Ayn Rand decided to become a welfare bum at the end of her life.

Any thoughts about that RyggTard?

You don't seem to have the capacity to answer any questions with anything but Libertarian Boilerplate nonsense and paragraphs taken from news stories.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (9) Jun 29, 2012
I will answer it. Welfare bum? Socialism SUPPORTS the real welfare bums who never worked a day in their life even though able-bodied and who just didn't want to seek employment due to laziness and wanted a handout each month. Supporting of lazy welfare kings and queens who fleece the taxpaying public on a regular basis seems to be your shtick, VD. It wouldn't surprise anyone if YOU are a welfare bum yourself.
Ayn Rand paid into Social Security from its inception, and she was only getting back what she paid into it. Are you saying that she wasn't entitled to her own money, but some lazy dirtbag was? You have been told the truth by others about the degenerative and demeaning process in which those who will avoid working will do all they can to avoid it further. But your mind seems incapable of absorbing these truths, and for which you ask the same questions over and over and get the same answers, which you still fail to absorb as any other person with a normal mentality would.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (9) Jun 29, 2012
I seriously have my doubts about your mental health, Vendicar_De Idiot. It's no wonder you live in Canada, IF you really live there...the land to which the so-called "conscientious objectors" of the Vietnam war era fled to avoid the draft, when better human beings than they, were bleeding and dying for a war that they thought was righteous and justified. I would trade you and your kind any day to have them all back if it was possible. You are an Untermensch...a true subhuman....you are an anthropogenic disaster. Shame on your parents.
frajo
5 / 5 (2) Jun 29, 2012
You are an Untermensch...a true subhuman....

Nazi language? Why?
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Jun 29, 2012
You are an Untermensch...a true subhuman....

Nazi language? Why?

""Under Man" A term used by the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche to describe the common man. Likened to sheep, the Untermensch is a social animal spouting pacifist and liberal morality. In this way, he can rationalize his subservience to social and political mores. His existence is solely for the purpose of providing statistical "filler"."
"Although usually considered to have been coined by the Nazis themselves, the term "under man" in the above mentioned sense was also used by American author Lothrop Stoddard in the title of his 1922 pamphlet The Revolt Against Civilization: The Menace of the Under-man.[3]"
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (8) Jun 29, 2012
@ frajo.
There is no such thing as a "Nazi language". It is a German word.
For NAZI references, you may want to consult with TheGhostofOtto1923 aka TheGhostofOtto1932 who calls himself, with pride, Otto Skorzeny in his 1932 sock puppet profile. The Austrian Otto Skorzeny was a real person, a Nazi SS officer who, at the behest of Adolph Hitler, rescued the war criminal, Benito Mussolini from his prison in a daring raid on a mountain top prison in the Appenines.
Skorzeny then brought Mussolini to Hitler's quarters. Skorzeny was a mass murderer and became secretary to Adolph Hitler. After the war he was captured by the allies and was brought to the U.S., probably supported by George H. W. Bush, who was said to be a Nazi sympathizer at the time.
Perhaps Blotto can explain his adulation and admiration of a dead Nazi to you.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (23) Jun 29, 2012
Frajo knows me better than that you lying dimwit. And frajo knows more about skorszeny and mussolini than you can ever make up. And by now, frajo has read enough to conclude that you are a lying dimwit without my having had to point this out.
Estevan57
1.4 / 5 (27) Jun 29, 2012
PussyCat, what do you care what a person calls themselves? Or worships? Otto has the right to do these things if he wants. If you are complaining to the general public about this, then you are better off being silent. Many are just tired of the ongoing argument between you two. Look through your threads and see how many people have asked you to leave, shutup, or change behaviour.
Be a better citizen on the site.
Read the article. Mean people destroy what is around them, businesses, and comments sections of science news websites as well. One Vendicar is enough.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jun 29, 2012
Look through your threads and see how many people have asked you to leave, shutup, or change behaviour.
Be a better citizen on the site.

Have you asked VD to be a better citizen on the site?
How many have reported VD but it is still here, drip, drip, drip..
My guess is VD is a staff ringer to keep up traffic.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (22) Jun 29, 2012
Otto has the right to do these things if he wants.
Except that I didnt. Dont propagate lies.
Estevan57
1.6 / 5 (28) Jun 29, 2012
Otto, I said you have the right to. I have never said that you did anything PCat says you do. I don't care either way. I have propagated nothing.

"Have you asked VD to be a better citizen on the site?" Yes, I have, to no end. Reported also. No result. If you search hard enough I believe his real name can be found. He goes back a long way on the net. He makes a good foil for NotParker. When those two start at it the comment thread is pretty much done. Both of their trolling and name calling are actually used by a local high school as a bad example of net behaviour.
The staff ringer may be true, or the staff is just totally ineffective.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (7) Jun 29, 2012
@Esteven57

I doubt you might be one of the many sock puppets of TheGhostofOtto1923 and 1932. You really should consider tat there is 2 sides to any argument, and so far, you have been on Blotto's side, even though it is he who comes into a thread to verbally jostle and accost me. I think he does it because HE wants to be the one to present ideas and information in any given thread and he resents that I have done so. That's why he makes up stories about what I've said. I'm onto his game now..and so is everyone else.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (8) Jun 29, 2012
I believe the topic was "economic violence"? And I was also answering frajo's question about the word "Untermensch" which he mistakenly thought was "Nazi" language. Personally, I am not concerned with what Blotto worships...that's not my problem....but when he continuously comes into threads to pester me with his lies, then that IS a problem...and I WILL address it.
Estevan57
1.6 / 5 (28) Jun 29, 2012
Whatever.... go make me a sandwich.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (8) Jun 29, 2012
here's something to chew on
http://phys.org/p...tto1932/
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (8) Jun 29, 2012
alacazam....you're a sandwich.

Royal Bank of Scotland...you see, it's titles like that that depresses and demoralizes the Scottish people. Which is one of the reasons that so many get sick.It's always a reminder that they have nothing of their own...it's royal this and royal that. I suggest that they change the name to the Bank of Scottish Independence, or Scottish Free State Bank (ripoff of the Irish Free State).
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (7) Jun 29, 2012
Conservative Bank of Scotland - Bank of Conservative Scotland - Scottish Bank for Savings - Independence Savings Bank of Scotland - A name change means a lot.
"Toxic assets" and "bad debt"....sounds a lot like Obama's plan to force U.S. banks to give out home mortgages and loans to those who could least afford to pay back with interest, and the banks were stuck with houses whose owners just walked away without a how-do-you-do, which is why the Obama "American Dream" machine failed. Which is also why cities like Detroit are turning into a slum, and Obama is the SlumLord.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (6) Jun 29, 2012
Inother words she repudiated her insistance through her entire life that taxes were pure theft. Suddenly when she needed government money, taxes became a loan.

But we all know that Ayn Rand not only took Social Security handouts from the Government, but had government pay for her health care costs as well, as she died from lung cancer, after spending decades claiming that the claimed connection between smoking and lung cancer was a scam by medical scientists who wanted to nothing more than to establish a one world communist state.

Her delusional Randite Ranting sounds all too familiar doesn't it?

"Ayn Rand paid into Social Security from its inception, and she was only getting back what she paid into it." - PussyCatLies

Now we all know that medical care in America is very expensive. I submit that Rand took more money from the government in medical expensises, and welfare than she ever paid in taxes.

What a filthy hypocrite she was.

Vendicar_Decarian
2.7 / 5 (7) Jun 29, 2012
You are of course referring to the "better human beings" who went off and murdered 3 million Vietnamese civilians.

"when better human beings than they, were bleeding and dying for a war that they thought was righteous and justified." - PussyCatLies

Pieces of filth... Every one of them. As is the system of false patriotism that created them.

Don't you agree PussyCatLies?

Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 29, 2012
Sorry GirlieTard. That was Bushie's plan.

http://www.youtub...Qx7sjoS8
http://www.youtub...tUq0OJ68

"sounds a lot like Obama's plan to force U.S. banks to give out home mortgages and loans to those who could least afford to pay back with interest" - PussyCatLies

Conservative Filth at it's best. Don't you agree GurlieTard?
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 29, 2012
Because Libertarianism/Randism is NeoFascism.

"Nazi language? Why?" - Frao
Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (5) Jun 29, 2012
You still haven't answered the questions Tard Boy.

We are waiting.....

Ayn Rand.. Welfare queen.
Private American schools teaching children that the Loch Ness monster exists and is a dinosaur.

"Have you asked VD to be a better citizen on the site?" - RyggTard

What is your problem Tard Boy? Is your ideology incapable of defending against reality?

Estevan57
1.6 / 5 (27) Jun 30, 2012
Is Vendicar Scott Nudds?
ForFreeMinds
1.4 / 5 (9) Jun 30, 2012
"Which is another reason [that people can be fired at will in a free market] why free markets do not serve the interest of people."

Vendicar shows he believes in state power preventing firms from firing people; thus, stepping all over the rights of people who actually own a firm and pay their employees. Isn't it in our best interests that an employer be able to fire an employee if the employee's contributions don't exceed his compensation (or should we allow the firm to fail along with its jobs)?

While I agree that the management style called "economic violence" here where an employer threatens terminating employees if they don't perform adequately isn't as good as other approaches, I see no comparisons to other approaches in the study, just that this "distracted" management from seeing other problems.

Thus, this is just a theory. One that fails, IMHO, as how do they explain so many other financial institutions failed to see the problems with their "toxic assets and bad debt"?
frajo
not rated yet Jun 30, 2012
I was also answering frajo's question about the word "Untermensch" which he mistakenly thought was "Nazi" language.

I know that you know the facts:
1941 veröffentlichte SS-Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler eine Broschüre mit dem Titel Der Untermensch, um die deutschen Massenmorde an Sowjetbürgern zu propagieren. Auch der sogenannte Reichenau-Befehl verwendete den Begriff "Untermensch" als Begründung für die Massenmorde an Sowjetbürgern.

It's not necessarily the first use which coins the meaning of a term. And I know that you know that.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (6) Jun 30, 2012
Inother words she repudiated her insistance through her entire life that taxes were pure theft. Suddenly when she needed government money, taxes became a loan.

But we all know that Ayn Rand not only took Social Security handouts from the Government, but had government pay for her health care costs as well, as she died from lung cancer, after spending decades claiming that the claimed connection between smoking and lung cancer was a scam by medical scientists who wanted to nothing more than to establish a one world communist state.

Her delusional Randite Ranting sounds all too familiar doesn't it?

"Ayn Rand paid into Social Security from its inception, and she was only getting back what she paid into it." - PussyCatLies

Now we all know that medical care in America is very expensive. I submit that Rand took more money from the government in medical expensises, and welfare than she ever paid in taxes.

What a filthy hypocrite she was.

- I don't like smoking either.
PussyCat_Eyes
1.4 / 5 (9) Jun 30, 2012
You are of course referring to the "better human beings" who went off and murdered 3 million Vietnamese civilians.

"when better human beings than they, were bleeding and dying for a war that they thought was righteous and justified." - PussyCatLies

Pieces of filth... Every one of them. As is the system of false patriotism that created them.

Don't you agree PussyCatLies?

- Vendicar_De Idiot

None of what you say makes any sense, VD. You should get checked out for a brain tumor.
If you were even half the man that any one of those 58,000 American soldiers were, and the Australian men who were involved also, you might be worth something. But since you're not, and you're only capable of meanness toward those who've never met and will never know and who can't defend themselves against your pretentious superiority, I think that the only way I can honor their memory is to not mention them to you any further.

Australian men died also in Vietnam. Do you hate them too?
PussyCat_Eyes
1.5 / 5 (8) Jun 30, 2012
http://www.rslnsw...tnam-war

This is for any Aussies who have lost one of their own. I lost my uncle there also.
PussyCat_Eyes
1.4 / 5 (9) Jun 30, 2012
Is Vendicar Scott Nudds?
- Estevan57

Yes, he is....and he's also Scott Douglas and other names. He'll be arrested if he tries to enter the U.S.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (8) Jun 30, 2012
Untermensch is a term used by the the 'progressive' eugenics movement.
Eugenics, what a great moment in 'progressives' scientific history. It led to such great movements like the NAZIs and Planned Parenthood.

"Eugenics gained much support from progressive reform thinkers, who sought to plan social development using expert knowledge in both the social and natural sciences. In eugenics, progressive reformers saw the opportunity to attack social problems efficiently by treating the cause (bad heredity) rather than the effect."
http://www.ncbi.n.../2698847
Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (4) Jun 30, 2012
Translation. You are so detached from reality you can't even follow a rational argument once presented.'

Tard girl just can't fathom why American soldiers who murdered 3 million Vietnamese Civilians are vermin.

It just don't make no sense, to her Conservative Braincell.

"None of what you say makes any sense, VD." - PussyCatLies
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (3) Jun 30, 2012
Clearly you are mentally defective if you wish to honor the acts of mass murderers.

"I think that the only way I can honor their memory" - PussyCatLies

No doubt you honor the service of the NAZI regime as well.

You are quite sick in the head girl.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 30, 2012
No one I know travels through the U.S. anymore. Too much rectal probing has been ordered by George Bush.

"He'll be arrested if he tries to enter the U.S." - PussyCatLies

When I do re-enter your country it will be in just a few short years. I will do so to dance on the smoldering ruins of your cities.

Civil war is coming to America.

ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (8) Jun 30, 2012
"The progressives somewhat antidemocratic impulses also led them to believe
that academic experts were both sufficient and necessary for the task of wise public
administration, {That's what all the AGWites and Ehrlich disciples say!} because they could and would suspend their own interests to
transcend the messy business of democratic politics. As one widely read eugenics
text put it: [G]overnment and social control are in the hands of expert politicians
who have power, instead of expert technologists who have wisdom. There should be
technologists in control of every field of human need and desire (as quoted from
Albert Wiggams New Decalogue 1923, in Ludmerer, 1972, pp. 1617)."
Retrospectives
Eugenics and Economics in the
Progressive Era
Thomas C. Leonard
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 30, 2012
If Murdering 3 million people makes one a "great man" in your eyes, then you must absolutely croon over Hitler's count.

"If you were even half the man that any one of those 58,000 American soldiers were" - PussyCatLies

When it comes to war, I live by a simple philosophy. Draft me and you have recruited me to work for your enemy. Give me a gun and I will use it to kill as many of the officers and recruits as possible.

Comprehend, Tard Girl?

PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (8) Jun 30, 2012
No one I know travels through the U.S. anymore. Too much rectal probing has been ordered by George Bush.

"He'll be arrested if he tries to enter the U.S." - PussyCatLies

When I do re-enter your country it will be in just a few short years. I will do so to dance on the smoldering ruins of your cities.

Civil war is coming to America.

- Vendicar_De Nutcase

Yeppers....you read him right, folks. Vendicar_De Idiot wants to dance on your graves. I read somewhere on the internet that he is really a Palestinian and hangs out with terrorists. He isn't even aware that Barack Insane Obama has been President of the U.S. for over 3 1/2 years now.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (7) Jun 30, 2012
Adolph Vendicar Hitler was insane, VD....he ruined Germany deliberately...and he wasn't even a German.
But if you MUST learn more about Nazis....check this out for a real Nazi lover.

http://phys.org/p...tto1932/

Google the first and last name....and take notice of the "Empire/Reich" remark
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (6) Jun 30, 2012
http://www.vetera...korzeny/

This is interesting. It could be true that Otto Skorzeny murdered the great scientist, Nikola Tesla. I will look further into it.
frajo
5 / 5 (1) Jul 01, 2012
Australian men died also in Vietnam. Do you hate them too?

I despise any of my (German) relatives who has killed innocent people.
I despise anybody who justifies the killing of innocent people for whatever reason.

Why don't you?
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Jul 01, 2012
I despise anybody who justifies the killing of innocent people for whatever reason.

What are you willing to do about it?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (21) Jul 01, 2012
Australian men died also in Vietnam. Do you hate them too?

I despise any of my (German) relatives who has killed innocent people.
I despise anybody who justifies the killing of innocent people for whatever reason.

Why don't you?
Ho chi Minh was directly responsible for perhaps a million deaths. He invaded the south. Communists intended to make all of southeast Asia communist, by force. Pol pot showed us how this was going to be done. Similar actions in china had resulted in 40 million dead.

I despise people who would just sit by and let something like this happen because they think it is ideologically wrong to act preemptively, a shameful xian martyr sentiment. Angriff ist die beste Verteidigung.
Comprehend, Tard Girl?
VD is so bored and lonely that he has to engage with imbeciles. So sad.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (21) Jul 01, 2012
I despise anybody who justifies the killing of innocent people for whatever reason.

What are you willing to do about it?
Ha apparently frajo is willing to sit by and do nothing because 'aggression is wrong'. A critical flaw in the dogma. Xians debated their dogma for centuries to weed out such flaws. Perhaps frajo needs to post more?
Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (4) Jul 02, 2012
Wow, another PussyCat Factoid that isn't in any of the history books.

"Adolph Vendicar Hitler was insane, VD....he ruined Germany deliberately" - PussyCatLies

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) Jul 02, 2012
Graves? No. I will desecrate those.

When it comes to dancing, I will dance on the smoldering ruins of America's cities.

It's just a few years away, and my dancing shoes are ready for a gig.

"Vendicar_De Idiot wants to dance on your graves." - PussyCatLies

Please try and keep your comments honest PussyCatLies. It really isn't so difficult to do. But it does require you to avoid inventing your own reality.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 02, 2012
Fools say many childish things.

Bigger fools believe them.

"I read somewhere on the internet that he is really a Palestinian and hangs out with terrorists." - PussyCatLies

It is the model for the Republican Echo-Chamber.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 02, 2012
'Economic violence' caused RBS to fail, new study suggests

http://phys.org/n...firstCmt

It is sad that these Capitalists were so inadequately regulated.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (7) Jul 02, 2012
Oh VD...too bad you're so abnormal..you might've been brilliant in any number of sciences or philosophy. You deny that you're a true Capitalist, while accepting a salary from some slave job. But you're here to entertain us, aren't you? And a great entertainer you are. But you ARE a lot less abnormal than, say, Blotto. You could put a collar and a leash on him and he'll follow you everywhere with his tongue hanging out. Blotto is still searching for his b.f...someone named RitchieParrot. Here is one of his latest gaffes:

http://medicalxpr...cer.html
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) Jul 02, 2012
Might have been? Snicker.

"Oh VD...too bad you're so abnormal..you might've been brilliant in any number of sciences" - PussyCatEyes

"You deny that you're a true Capitalist, while accepting a salary from some slave job." - PussyCatEyes

Since you know nothing about me, your presumption that I accept a salaried job is just that. Presumption.

Your fantasies aside. America Continues to fade to grey.

http://www.youtub...=related
frajo
3 / 5 (2) Jul 02, 2012
Australian men died also in Vietnam. Do you hate them too?

I despise any of my (German) relatives who has killed innocent people.
I despise anybody who justifies the killing of innocent people for whatever reason.

Why don't you?
Ho chi Minh was directly responsible for perhaps a million deaths. He invaded the south. Communists intended to make all of southeast Asia communist, by force. Pol pot showed us how this was going to be done. Similar actions in china had resulted in 40 million dead.


I am talking about innocent victims.
You are talking about guilty offenders.
Why?
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Jul 02, 2012
Australian men died also in Vietnam. Do you hate them too?

I despise any of my (German) relatives who has killed innocent people.
I despise anybody who justifies the killing of innocent people for whatever reason.

Why don't you?
Ho chi Minh was directly responsible for perhaps a million deaths. He invaded the south. Communists intended to make all of southeast Asia communist, by force. Pol pot showed us how this was going to be done. Similar actions in china had resulted in 40 million dead.


I am talking about innocent victims.
You are talking about guilty offenders.
Why?

What are you willing to do to stop the guilty?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.9 / 5 (23) Jul 02, 2012
I am talking about innocent victims.
You are talking about guilty offenders.
Why?
Ho chi Minh was responsible for the deaths of perhaps a million INNOCENT victims. The religionist cultures in that region FORCED the population overgrowth which made their deaths inevitable whether in war, revolution, starvation, or disease.

But you would only blame the west because they chose to act to REMEDY these problems, which unavoidably resulted in the deaths of people already doomed. YOU would condemn future generations to suffering and DEATH by your refusal to act. This is criminal.

Vietnam is peaceful and prosperous today BECAUSE the religionist cultures there were destroyed by combined western and communist Activity. This could NOT have happened without the deaths of 100s of 1000s of innocent people.

Blame the cause not the solution.
frajo
2.4 / 5 (5) Jul 03, 2012
you would only blame the *** because they chose to act to REMEDY these problems, which unavoidably resulted in the deaths of people already doomed.

I've heard this kind of justifying the murdering of innocent people by the followers of Hitler, Jughashvili, Caesar and lots more.
Let's assume, you don't agree with what those killers did.
But why then do you use their very "arguments"?

The religionist cultures in that region FORCED the population overgrowth which made their deaths inevitable whether in war, revolution, starvation, or disease.

The inevitable death of a human being is your justification for killing him?
Thus the WTC killings are justifiable because the death of the victims was inevitable?

The death of any human is inevitable. From your logic it follows that the killing of any human is justified.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (22) Jul 03, 2012
I've heard this kind of justifying the murdering of innocent people by the followers of Hitler, Jughashvili, Caesar
Yes and Ive heard yours as justification for the millions of martyrs who presented themselves for killing, rather than fight. Like xians in rome or jews in the third reich. Nie wieder.

Iran will not be allowed to have nuclear weapons. Tens of thousands of innocent conscripts and civilians will die in order to prevent far worse.
The inevitable death of a human being is your justification for killing him?
No the end of the society which only CREATES him as a method of aggression, is the reason that IT must be destroyed. IT will use him as a soldier or as a human shield. If it is not destroyed it will destroy us. THIS is the equation.
Thus the WTC killings are justifiable because the death of the victims was inevitable?
Did roosevelt allow the attack on pearl harbor which killed a few 1000, in order to end isolationist sentiment? What do you think?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.9 / 5 (21) Jul 03, 2012
The inevitable death of a human being is your justification for killing him?
Are you saying that human shields are a legitimate and morally justifiable weapon of war? Who is guilty if they die - the soldier who shoots them or the slimy gutless coward who uses them? This question is not a hard one to answer.

Who is guilty - the terrorist who takes innocent hostages or the govt that refuses to deal with terrorists, thereby ensuring their decapitation?

Is the child who throws a grenade into a huey full of green berets an innocent? Is a population which harbors enemy combatants innocent? Are women and children who engage in acts of sabotage innocent? If a carful is speeding toward your position are justified in stopping them by whatever means necessary?

Is assad fighting terrorists or citizens? Were the northern states justified in invading the confederacy in order to preserve the union?

Your mantra leaves you no way of reasonably answering these questions.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (22) Jul 03, 2012
"There are no innocent civilians." -Curtis lemay
http://en.wikiquo...is_LeMay

"There are no innocents in a war" rabbi dor lior
http://www.ynetne...,00.html

'In war there are no innocent victims' -J. Romains

"Rabbi J. David Bleich2 writes: "Not only does one search in vain for a ruling prohibiting military activity likely to result in the death of civilians, but, to this writer's knowledge, there exists no discussion in classical rabbinic sources that takes cognizance of the likelihood of causing civilian casualties in the course of hostilities legitimately undertaken as posing a halakhic or moral problem."
http://www.nishma...-06.html
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.9 / 5 (21) Jul 03, 2012
Just War Doctrine - Catholic church

"It also must be foreseen with moral certainty, moral certainty being the highest kind of assurance that is possible in geo-political matters. If this is present -- and if the other conditions are met -- then it is lawful to resort to war...it is not necessary for the aggressor to strike first. A moral certainty that the aggression will occur is sufficient. Such certainty might be present, for instance, if a party with a history of aggression began amassing troops or munitions.

"...it does not require the result of no innocents being harmed. Such a result is impossible to guarantee...Catholic theology recognizes this. It applies to such situations a well-established principle known as the law of double-effect. According to this law it is permissible to undertake an action which has two effects, one good and one evil, provided that certain conditions are met."
http://www.cathol...doctrine

-Even god agrees.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (5) Jul 03, 2012
Blotto, I never thought I would ever agree with you on anything, so I won't. But your 4 examples of indefensible crap by 2 rabbis, a military man and some other schnook regarding innocent victims of war reminds me of the words that Timothy McVeigh uttered, "collateral damage". As a preteen at the time, I felt sympathy for the 168 innocent people in the bombing of the Murrah Building and the killing of 19 children. McVeigh was justifiably executed. But the 76 people killed, including 19 children murdered at Waco, Texas by government "shock troops" with the approval of Pres. Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno were just as innocent, and their murderers got off scot-free because they were government agents. There is no justifiable homicide in the killing of innocents, especially children, and not only McVeigh should've been punished with death, but Janet Reno should have been removed from her job as AG. Obviously it was a double-standard that was applied to the punishment of others.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 03, 2012
frajo still refuses to state what he would do to protect the innocent.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (6) Jul 03, 2012
A true bleeding heart Pacifist, he.
Although, some Pacifists have a few valuable ideas. IF they show hatred of ANY aggression anywhere in the world. But most often, they will have their noses all out of joint over Bush's wars, e.g., but you don't hear a peep out of them during Obama's wars. Again, with the double-standards.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 03, 2012
A true bleeding heart Pacifist, he.
Although, some Pacifists have a few valuable ideas. IF they show hatred of ANY aggression anywhere in the world. But most often, they will have their noses all out of joint over Bush's wars, e.g., but you don't hear a peep out of them during Obama's wars. Again, with the double-standards.

Nor do they say much about how socialist tyrannies murder their 'citizens' every day.
If the US tries to protect a tyrannized minority, people like frajo claim that is morally equivalent to DPRK.
Bottom line is people like frajo don't want to be responsible.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (5) Jul 03, 2012
Continued social and political irresponsibility is what the advocates of "expanded government and less Liberty" are hoping to achieve...a veritable Dystopia where the tyranny of the iron hand and the jack-booted enforcers will remove power from the individual, and place it in the hands of the corrupt bureaucracy. When the masses finally wake up from their stupor, that is when the howling in rage will begin. They will blink and say, "what happened?"...and we can only tell them that they've brought it on themselves as we head for the mountains. ObamaCare is now the law of the land. God help us.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (5) Jul 04, 2012
ObamaCare will create economic violence in the U.S.....27,000 pages of an unjust law that has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court with the Liberal Justice Roberts the deciding vote. The only ones who will not have to deal with the possibility of not getting the proper and affordable medical care because the government will deem it too expensive, can take heart. As one woman asked Pres. Obama what can be done about her mother's needing a pacemaker, his answer to her was to give her mother "a pill".
This is what we have to look forward to, and only the very rich will not be concerned about the economic violence placed on the backs of ordinary citizens by the ObamaCare. The rich can afford to pay directly to their doctors and hospital visits. While the rest of us will have to grovel and plead with gov't agencies to allow us to keep the health plan we like and want to keep.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (22) Jul 04, 2012
Wow, another PussyCat Factoid that isn't in any of the history books.

"Adolph Vendicar Hitler was insane, VD....he ruined Germany deliberately" - PussyCatLies

Bwaaahaaahaaaha and pussy has a cat named Diarrhea hehee.

You will note how people who are pretending to be who and what they are not, will tend to go to extraordinary lengths in their posts and profiles to establish their gender and backgrounds; while genuine posters usually will not. Ritchieguy did this, pretending to be a toughguy and making threats after pirouette got the derision that he/she/it deserved. Russkiye was a pretty transparent phony Russian charicature. And pussy is now the caboose.

This, along with the ignorant things they post, tend to convince us that they are lying phonies. Or they are pretending to be lying phonies, which is even more fucked up.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (20) Jul 04, 2012
And what is your little cocker spaniels name - Puupshute? Ha.
"Oh VD...too bad you're so abnormal..you might've been brilliant in any number of sciences" - PussyCatEyes
-They will also make shameless and greasy suckup attempts to others who are being similarly derided, trying to form alliances.

Too bad pussy your ignorance is absolute. VD, Terriva, noumenon, ryggy and everybody else has rejected your affections. Lonely girl.
PussyCat_Eyes
1 / 5 (4) Jul 04, 2012
MY CAT'S NAME IS DALRIADA, WHICH IS AN IRISH PLACE NAME. IT IS YOU WHO SUFFERS FROM DIARRHEA OF THE BRAIN.
I AM NOT LOOKING FOR AFFECTION, AS IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW ALREADY. I HAVE A BOYFRIEND AND YOU THINK THAT HE IS GOING TO BE SENT TO AFGHANISTAN. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT AFGHANISTAN BUT YOU HAVE PRESUMED IT. SO YOU KNEW ALREADY THAT I HAVE A BOYFRIEND, AND YET YOU'RE CALLING ME A "LONELY GIRL". YOUR MEMORY IS BAD, BLOTTO, AND THAT IS ONE OF THE SYMPTOMS OF YOUR BEING AFFLICTED WITH DISSOCIATE IDENTITY DISORDER. YOU ALSO THINK THAT GLYCOSYLATED HEMOGLOBIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GLUCOSE, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE PROVEN YOU WRONG TIME AND TIME AGAIN. YOU STILL CONTINUE WITH YOUR LIES AND INCOMPREHENSIONS.
YOU ARE EVIDENTLY SEXUALLY IMPOTENT AND THIS RITCHIE YOU SEEK OUT EXCITED YOU WHERE NO ONE ELSE CAN. IT IS YOU WHO ARE LONELY. AND YOU MUST FIND ATTENTION IN EVERY THREAD BY ACCUSING AND TELLING LIES. YOU ARE PROBABLY IN A MENTAL INSTITUTION THAT ALLOWS YOU THE USE OF COMPUTERS.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (21) Jul 05, 2012
MY CAT'S NAME IS DALRIADA, WHICH IS AN IRISH PLACE NAME. IT IS YOU WHO SUFFERS FROM DIARRHEA OF THE BRAIN.
Yawn.
I HAVE A BOYFRIEND AND YOU THINK THAT HE IS GOING TO BE SENT TO AFGHANISTAN. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT AFGHANISTAN BUT YOU HAVE PRESUMED IT.
Yes you did. More posting in a drunken stupor?
YOU ALSO THINK THAT GLYCOSYLATED HEMOGLOBIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GLUCOSE, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE PROVEN YOU WRONG TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
The fake nurse says that erythrocites carry glucose to feed all the cells, and then tries to LIE even when the quote is repeatedly posted. As with all their lies and ignorance.

What IS wrong with you?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (21) Jul 05, 2012
I think I have arrived at a diagnosis. Something to do with cat poop.
http://medicalxpr...ide.html

"...toxoplasmosis, has been linked to mental illness, such as schizophrenia, and changes in behavior.
PussyCat_Eyes
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 05, 2012
Poor Blotto De Idiot's memory cells are dying. He insists that I said that my boyfriend is going to Afghanistan. I NEVER said that he is going to Afghanistan - I said he's going to THE MIDDLE EAST. Apparently, Blotto thinks that Afghanistan is in the Middle East...or the Middle East is in Afghanistan. Has to be one or the other since Blotto gets everything wrong anyway....LOL
Maybe Blotto will be able to understand what is said in the following link...or he will continue to get that wrong also. (snicker snicker) Right, Vendi?

http://www.medici...sary.htm

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