CERN to give update on search for Higgs boson

Jun 22, 2012
This handout picture provided by the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) shows scientists celebrating at the CERN's control center after the restart operation of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in 2009 near Geneva. The European Organisation for Nuclear Research said Friday it may announce next month whether tests with its atom-smasher have found the elusive "God particle".

The European Organisation for Nuclear Research said Friday it may announce next month whether tests with its atom-smasher have found the elusive "God particle".

Known formally as the , the particle is the theoretical missing link in the of physics and is believed to be what gives objects mass, though scientists have never been able to pin it down.

The organisation, known as CERN, saids that at a July 4 Geneva conference it will "deliver the latest update in the search for the Higgs boson" it is carrying out with its atom-smasher, the Large Hadron Collider.

The theory behind the so-called is that mass does not derive from themselves but instead comes from a boson that interacts strongly with some particles but less, if at all, with others.

"In December we said that there were hints in the data that there may be something there (but) not strong enough to say it's a discovery or not," spokesman James Gillies told AFP by telephone.

"On July 4 we will be able to say whether either there is nothing in the data this year; or there are still hints in the data, but not strong enough for us to be able to say that it is a discovery; and possibly a discovery," he said. "Either of those three things is possible."

The seminar will precede a major physics conference in Melbourne, Australia, where progress in the search for the Higgs boson will be reported.

The Large Hadron Collider, sometimes called the world's largest machine, is located in a 27-kilometre (17-mile) ring-shaped tunnel near Geneva that straddles the Franco-Swiss border up to 175 metres (580 feet) below ground.

It fires streams of in opposite, but parallel, directions in the tunnel. The beams are then bent by powerful magnets so that some of the protons collide in four giant labs, which are lined with detectors to record the sub-atomic debris that results.

Data-taking for the Melbourne conference concluded on Monday, CERN's director for accelerators and technology, Steve Myers, said in a statement.

"I'm very much looking forward to seeing what the data reveals."

The agency's research and computing director, Sergio Bertolucci, added there was now twice as much data as last year.

"That should be enough to see whether the trends we were seeing in 2011 data are still there, or whether they've gone away. It is a very exciting time."

If and when a new particle is discovered, scientists will need time to ascertain that it is indeed the Higgs boson, or some other, unknown particle.

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baudrunner
1 / 5 (9) Jun 22, 2012
My thinking on the subject is that there are yet more of these "god" particles at even higher energy levels than the Higgs, which is predicted to be discovered at that threshold energy which the biggest machine in the world can muster up. That's just quantum physics. But what's the point? When the Higgs boson is found, how does one prove that it confers mass on other particles? I maintain that it is just another W boson. And the next one too. Didn't Einstein establish that mass is conferred upon an object/particle through motion and velocity? Isn't mass proportional to velocity? Wasn't that proved recently, when it was discovered that electrons at super cold temperatures in superconducting materials have increased mass? Why that crazy "Higgs confers mass on particles" theory? Who was the brainiac who thunk that one up?
Sean_W
4.2 / 5 (11) Jun 22, 2012
No one calls it the God particle. Except the people who write science news articles that is.
sirchick
3.7 / 5 (3) Jun 22, 2012
How did the term "God Particle" arise anyway ? I personally don't like the term.
nayTall
1 / 5 (4) Jun 22, 2012
formerly known as nayTall, i am now God.
casualjoe
1 / 5 (1) Jun 22, 2012
"On July 4 we will be able to say whether either there is nothing in the data this year; or there are still hints in the data, but not strong enough for us to be able to say that it is a discovery; and possibly a discovery,"

I won't hold my breath for the 1st and 3rd option but good effort nonetheless.
gshanemiller
3 / 5 (2) Jun 22, 2012
CERN's motto: we might be saying something sometime later and either it'll be true or it won't and you'll have to hold your breath more.

me: everybody's already searching for Higgs. I know you are so what's the point in telling me what I already know? When did CERN become run by sales, marketing, and public outreach people?
lettermanstud
4.3 / 5 (6) Jun 22, 2012
How did the term "God Particle" arise anyway ? I personally don't like the term.


The guy who first theorized the higgs particle called it the 'God Damn' particle because of how elusive it was. He is on camera talking about it in BBC shows and the like. It has NOTHING to do with a deity or god.
Terriva
1 / 5 (7) Jun 22, 2012
In AWT perspective the detection of Higgs field is analogous to detection of water molecules with ripples at the water surface. We can never observe the underlying structure of vacuum, where every fluctuation is composed of many other. In Standard Model it corresponds the "hierarchy problem": that quantum corrections can make the mass of the Higgs particle arbitrarily large, since virtual particles with arbitrarily large energies are allowed in quantum mechanics. But the limited scope of view brings the limit to this fractal recursion. IMO what we are observing in vacuum background during particle collisions corresponds the miniaturized version of foamy structures of dark matter on the sky and the power spectrum of Higgs field should therefore correspond the power spectrum of CMBR noise: it implies the existence of multiple "Higgs bosons" of different mas
Deesky
5 / 5 (6) Jun 22, 2012
My thinking on the subject is that there are yet more of these "god" particles at even higher energy levels than the Higgs, which is predicted to be discovered at that threshold energy which the biggest machine in the world can muster up. That's just quantum physics. But what's the point?

The point is to learn how the universe works. It's one of humanity's best qualities - intellectual curiosity. Would you have asked what is the point in knowing how to make fire?

When the Higgs boson is found, how does one prove that it confers mass on other particles?

You've got that the wrong way around. Theory came first and the resulting prediction is the Higgs mechanism. If the Higgs is found, it will validate existing theory and will therefore be the proof (as far as anything is proved in physics).
Deesky
5 / 5 (7) Jun 22, 2012
Didn't Einstein establish that mass is conferred upon an object/particle through motion and velocity?

Yes, but you're confusing two issues. For example, photons travel at lightspeed and yet are massless particles, but they do have energy. There is a difference between relativistic mass (what you're talking about) and particle rest mass (or inertial mass), which is thought to be conferred by the Higgs mechanism.

Why that crazy "Higgs confers mass on particles" theory? Who was the brainiac who thunk that one up?

That would be Mr Higgs!
Terriva
1 / 5 (5) Jun 22, 2012
There is way too many theory for Higgs, the Standard Model is not the only one. In addition, Standard Model cannot predict Higgs boson mass by itself from the reason above given - you need to combine it with another theory to get some particular number. The guesses go from 109 -12 GeV to 760 -21 GeV, plus two unconventional theories with 1900 GeV and 10{18} GeV. There are so many comparably likely models - most of which contain continuous parameters whose values aren't calculable right now - that the whole interval is covered almost uniformly.
Terriva
1 / 5 (6) Jun 22, 2012
In addition, Higgs model is too vague for being considered seriously, because it has more than single formulation: it's based on different phenomena in classical physics, then the Higgs-Anderson model in boson condensates and its technical derivation consists in a mere reshuffling of degrees of freedom by transforming the Higgs Lagrangian in a gauge-invariant manner.
Deesky
5 / 5 (12) Jun 22, 2012
Higgs model is too vague for being considered seriously, because it has more than single formulation

That's funny. Most of the scientific community is, and has been, taking it seriously for decades. What's more, they're so serious about it that they commit their professional lifetimes to the research and build machines that can answer the deep questions.

I'm glad I live in this world rather than Zephir-world - a world of anti-intellectual sniping and non-achievement.
chardo137
5 / 5 (1) Jun 22, 2012
"The God Particle" is the title of a book by Leon Lederman about the search for the Higgs boson.
DruidDrudge
1 / 5 (5) Jun 23, 2012
the God Particle... cause everyone is looking for it... get it!
A nerds joke for nerds. but of course the media.. how should say... did not get it!!
Terriva
1 / 5 (7) Jun 23, 2012
I'm glad I live in this world rather than Zephir-world
It's questionable, who is anti-intellectual here. The twenty year standing ignorance of cold fusion, even longer ignorance of aether model, etc.. I'm just pointing to fact, that the Higgs mechanism isn't actually well defined and there are many derivations of it. Note that the more insightful theories like the Heims theory are able to predict the mass spectrum of most of particles without assumption of two dozens of parameters and Higgs boson at all. It's evident, the continuation of experiments and development of theories is the main motive of "scientific approach" here.
ewj
1 / 5 (4) Jun 23, 2012
The supernatuaral god particle does not exist, and the speed of light cannot be exceeded. At the moment that is. Yes light is constant - but it does not determine its own constancy in isolation. Its speed is determined by the Primary dimension. We live in a universe of 4 real spatial dimensions. ut, x,y,x. Ut is the main dimension into which the other common 3 can be located. This primary dimension is providing space second for second at the rate 300,000kms. It is impossible for light to move faster than the ability of Ut to creating the space for it to move. The god particle does not exist because Ut determines the natural association and dissociation of energy into matter. You only have to look at Planks contant to work this simple problem out. The speed of light is nothing more than an inidcator of the local expansion of the universe creating New space. It amazes me that everyone continues to ignore this constantly! A book Absolute Relativity - Theory of everything!
Terriva
1 / 5 (3) Jun 23, 2012
The god particle does not exist because Ut determines the natural association and dissociation of energy into matter.
The god particle indeed does exist just because Ut determines the natural association and dissociation of energy into matter so well. It's quite evident from your theory of Absolute Relativity. Just try to disprove it - and you'll see how blind you actually are.
Anda
5 / 5 (1) Jun 23, 2012
There are a lot of nobel winners writing their absolut truth here.
But of course, as far as i'm concerned, i'll give it to "water ripples"...
Turritopsis
1 / 5 (1) Jun 23, 2012
Pantheism is the belief that God and the Universe are identical. If Peter Higgs is correct, then the Higgs field spans (and is) the entire Universe. A Higgs boson would be a fragment of this Higgs field.

A piece of the Universe is a part of God. Or, the God particle.
ant_oacute_nio354
1 / 5 (1) Jun 23, 2012
The mass is the electric dipole moment!
Higgs doesn't exist.

Antonio Jose Saraiva
Turritopsis
not rated yet Jun 23, 2012
The mass is the electric dipole moment!

Although, if you consider the Higgs Theory, all parts of the Universe are potentially massive. For mass to emerge the field only need be energized. Although photons don't couple with the field to produce point particles, they are never-the-less energetic. Intergalactic space, and the Universe in its entirety, is flooded with photons. The empty intergalactic space is not empty at all but full of energy. Why bring this up? If the Higgs field is energized in the galactic surroundings our Dark Matter problem would have its resolution. If space itself around galaxies has mass, no matter how low the density (remember: there is a lot of it), then no mysterious particles would be needed to explain the anomalies. The extra mass would be an attribute of the Higgs field energized by transitory photonic energy.
Terriva
1 / 5 (3) Jun 23, 2012
Most of the scientific community is, and has been, taking it seriously for decades. What's more, they're so serious about it that they commit their professional lifetimes to the research and build machines that can answer the deep questions.
The only thing which scientists do care about seriously is their occupation. If they wouldn't find a Higgs boson, they would simply search something else. For example, the particle found at LHC collider by now has apparently nothing very much to do with Higgs boson, predicted with Standard Model - but who will take a shit about it? No one - they will simply study the ways, how to explain it without Standard Model, until their money will be going.
Deesky
5 / 5 (4) Jun 23, 2012
The only thing which scientists do care about seriously is their occupation.

Bingo! I'd wondered how long it would take you to trot out that (implied) nonsense. I say implied because people like you are always trying to denigrate REAL scientists by implying they're in it just for the sweet, sweet money, mmmmm. Utter nonsense!

There's far more money to be made in the private sector and for work which is far easier and often way less valuable IMO than what scientists do.

But even setting that fact to one side, are you seriously suggesting that any working person should not care about their chosen occupation?? Or that they should not be remunerated for it?
Deesky
5 / 5 (3) Jun 23, 2012
If they wouldn't find a Higgs boson, they would simply search something else.

Absolutely! That's how science works - you propose the best theory based on current knowledge and you TEST it (not blog about it). If it doesn't pan out, you scratch your head for a while and propose a credible alternative and the test that.

Frankly, I'd almost love it as much if no sign of the Higgs is found because that would seriously shake things up and lead to who knows what unexpected riches in the future.

For example, the particle found at LHC collider by now has apparently nothing very much to do with Higgs boson, predicted with Standard Model - but who will take a shit about it?

Huh?
Tangent2
1 / 5 (1) Jun 23, 2012
What about black holes? How does a particle that gives other particles mass work in a black hole where there are no other particles but a hole in space-time?
Deesky
5 / 5 (1) Jun 24, 2012
What about black holes? How does a particle that gives other particles mass work in a black hole where there are no other particles but a hole in space-time?

There is nothing special going on inside a black hole's horizon. Particles do exist there and it is not just a giant hole in spacetime. Of course, things get interesting and exotic as you approach the assumed singularity, but that's a much, much smaller region than the volume of space enclosed by the event horizon (at least for stellar mass BHs and up). So, I don't see why there should be any problem with the Higgs field in this context.
typicalguy
not rated yet Jun 24, 2012
We all know that they will announce that they saw the light and gave up on the standard model. All future physics will be determined without true experiment. AWT will put all scientists out of work because they are just charlatans trying to steal taxpayer money anyway with phony research.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA JUST KIDDDING! That AWT guy spams that garbage everywhere like he's paid to do it. Hey, no one believes your math-less theory so go away annoying pest!
Terriva
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2012
..I'd almost love it as much if no sign of the Higgs is found because that would seriously shake things up and lead to who knows what unexpected riches in the future...
Of course, but are we paying scientists for such blind research and considering the simplest solution only when all more complex and jobs providing options are exhausted? I'd expect some effectiveness and prioritization in scientific research. Instead of it, the mainstream science nearly systematically ignores the useful findings, whereas it follows the most obscure routes of most abstract and useless theories, which is able to develop at given time.
Deesky
5 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2012
are we paying scientists for such blind research and considering the simplest solution only when all more complex and jobs providing options are exhausted?

Listen, this research is at the forefront of physics. There is nothing blind about it. The 'simplest' solution is the one that is being investigated because it dovetails with what we already know about physics and physical theory, in the same way that theory has previously predicted unknown particles, like antimatter. Obviously, you have never heard of the principle of Occam's razor. Only a fool would pursue more complex and convoluted ideas when a simpler alternative is available and in fact is the best fit under the circumstances.

I'd expect some effectiveness and prioritization in scientific research

Really? Because it doesn't sound like it from everything you have (ever) said. In fact, this is exactly what is happening here.
Vendicar_Decarian
not rated yet Jun 25, 2012
Why do you think a BH will effect anything like an electron that has no physical dimensions?

"How does a particle that gives other particles mass work in a black hole where there are no other particles but a hole in space-time?' - Tangent2
Deesky
5 / 5 (1) Jun 25, 2012
Why do you think a BH will effect anything like an electron that has no physical dimensions?

Why do you think that matters at all?
TkClick
1 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2012
The mainstream theoretical physics of last forty years didn't achieve nothing spectacular. The string theory, loop quantum gravity and sypersymmetry theories all vaporized in the light of recent LHC experiments. We didn't find the gravitational waves, extradimensions or WIMPS yet. The number of evidence again Big Bang theory is rising. The most pronounced achievement of theoretical physics therefore remains so-called Majorana duality. This model essentially says, that the behaviour of generalized quantum field theory (so-called the conformal field theory) at small scales should mirror the general relativity (which is describing anti de-Sitter space and universe geometry) at macroscopic scales (AdS/CFT). Because AdS/CFT duality is five-dimensional construct, it's heavily violated with extradimensions, nevertheless for low-dimensional space-time it may remain valid. The evidence of five-dimensions are just the foamy streaks of dark matter observable at most distant cosmological scales.
extinct
1 / 5 (1) Jun 25, 2012
there are no serious physicists who use the phrase "God particle." that phrase was conjured up by people *outside* the field of physics, in order to generate sensationalism and more to the point, division. i'm siding with the serious physicists on this one
yyz
not rated yet Jun 25, 2012
Actually, physicist and Nobel laureate Leon Lederman coined the phrase, although this was not his first choice:

"Lederman said he gave the Higgs boson the nickname "The God Particle" because the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our final understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive," but jokingly added that a second reason was because "the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing."

http://en.wikiped...Particle

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