Former astronaut criticizes NASA's current course

May 15, 2012 by Jason Major, Universe Today
Story Musgrave, 76, railed against the administration's current direction -- or lack thereof.

Former NASA astronaut Story Musgrave is neither happy nor excited about the current state of the space administration or about the commercial COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation Services) program. He’s not happy, and he’s not afraid to say so.

“The whole thing is chaos and a cop out. The whole thing is a Washington failure,” Musgrave bluntly stated to Examiner.com’s Charles Atkeison in an interview this past weekend.

Musgrave was a astronaut for over 30 years and was a crew member on six shuttle missions. He performed the first shuttle spacewalk on Challenger’s first flight, was a pilot on an astronomy mission, was the lead spacewalker on the Hubble repair mission and on his last flight he operated an electronic chip manufacturing satellite on Columbia.

He has 7 graduate degrees in math, computers, chemistry, medicine, physiology, literature and psychology. He has been awarded 20 honorary doctorates and was a part-time trauma surgeon during his 30 year astronaut career.

And, according to Atkeison, Musgrave “feels the space agency has no true goals or focus today.”

“We’re not going anywhere… there is no where, there is no what, and there is no when,” the former astronaut told Atkeison. “There is no Mars program, none. There is also no Moon program. There is no asteroid program… there’s no what we’re gonna do and no when we’re gonna do it.”

Neither does Musgrave put much faith in the value of the COTS program… which includes the upcoming launch of SpaceX’s Dragon capsule.

This isn’t the first time Musgrave has spoken out against NASA’s direction, either; in June of 2011 Musgrave lambasted the administration for its failure to have a “next step” after phasing out the shuttle program.

“Why are we so poor in our vision and so poor in our project management that we come to a point where it’s reasonable to phase out the current program and we have no idea what the next one is?” Musgrave said in 2011. “Washington has to stop doing that.”

Story Musgrave, now 76, currently operates a palm farm in Orlando, FL, a production company in Sydney and a sculpture company in Burbank, CA. He is also a landscape architect, a design professor and  a concept artist with Disney Imagineering. It’s clear that Musgrave is a man who knows what vision is — and isn’t. Still, he’s always honored to have had the opportunity to be a part of NASA.

“I’m massively privileged to be part of the space program, and I never forget to say that,” said Musgrave last year.

Explore further: Cassini watches mysterious feature evolve in Titan sea

More information: Read the full story by Charles Atkeison on Examiner.com here.

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Lurker2358
2.1 / 5 (19) May 15, 2012
And, according to Atkeison, Musgrave feels the space agency has no true goals or focus today.

Were not going anywhere there is no where, there is no what, and there is no when, the former astronaut told Atkeison. There is no Mars program, none. There is also no Moon program. There is no asteroid program theres no what were gonna do and no when were gonna do it.


You, Sir, win the prize.

NASA is too hung up on making probes and telescopes, which are of very little functional value.

It is time NASA viewed space as a resource in terms of energy and materials, and began working on ways of developing these resources.

We don't want to go to Mars or an Asteroid "just for the hell of it to say we did," we want to go there to aquire and develop resources for the future.
CapitalismPrevails
1.7 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
It is time NASA viewed space as a resource in terms of energy and materials, and began working on ways of developing these resources.


I wouldn't expect a government bureaucracy(ie NASA)to make economical decisions instead of political decisions. Troll of Trolls, what say you? U know who u are.
CHollman82
3.7 / 5 (18) May 15, 2012
NASA is too hung up on making probes and telescopes, which are of very little functional value.


Wow... dumb.

They are of immense scientific value.
Lurker2358
1.4 / 5 (20) May 15, 2012
Wow... dumb.

They are of immense scientific value.


NOt really.

They haven't contributed to any breakthough inventions to help humanity in any meaningful way.

They just took a few pictures.

It's been at least several decades since anything relevant to daily human life was discovered by a telescope.
CHollman82
3.8 / 5 (16) May 15, 2012
The metric you are using to measure worth is asinine. According to you it is not worth it to know anything if it doesn't help us in our every day life. This purely utilitarian view completely ignores relevant traits of humanity. Art does not help us in our every day life, art is not utilitarian, would you say that art has no worth?

Understanding where we came from, where we are going, and our place in the universe by studying cosmology may not affect anyone's day to day life but answering these questions certainly has worth.

No wonder you're so ignorant of science, you have no desire to discover or understand things.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 15, 2012
CHollman82, I am only guessing, but I think that Lurker feels that it is far more of importance to launch space vehicles again with men aboard than it is to continue to spend fortunes on telescopes to take more pictures.

"Im massively privileged to be part of the space program, and I never forget to say that", said Musgrave last year.

I think that Musgrave is tragically disappointed in what the NASA has become, and is wistfully wishing that it would break with its ineptness and incompetency along with tunnel vision for science of space exploration by humans. The tunnel vision is bureaucratic in source. My government has better chance of putting cosmonauts in space to go to Mars than does the NASA. We do get much data from American and European probes and telescopes at their own expense, not ours. But they still have not enough crucial data on radiation exposure on humans physiology from outer space above the ionosphere, et al. It should have been had already by this time.
Deathclock
2.6 / 5 (18) May 15, 2012
Manned missions are dog and pony shows, there is no good compelling reason to send a flesh and blood human to an asteroid or a moon of Jupiter. The difficulty of doing so is a thousand fold what it is to send a probe, and the benefit is negligible, especially considering modern advancements in robotics.

We aren't going anywhere, we don't need to study long term space flight on humans because there is NOWHERE TO GO. It would take a generational ship and nearly the entire productive output of the human race to get to the next nearest star system... We will not be migrating off of this planet for the conceivable future, if ever. Exploration and discovery is the name of the game, and that is much better served by unmanned probes.

NASA knows exactly what it is doing, and these old Astronauts are dinosaurs with a serious case of nostalgia.
Deathclock
3.1 / 5 (18) May 15, 2012
Imagine if we insisted on sending a team of humans to Mars rather than the probes that we have operating there right now... we would STILL be working on it and it would have cost ten times as much. Instead we are already analyzing terabytes of data that we've received from our probes which operated 100x longer than their expected mission life. If spirit and opportunity are not proof of the value of robotic probes then I don't know if anything will convince you.
Russkiycremepuff
1.5 / 5 (16) May 15, 2012
@Deathclock
It is too bad that you are so pessimistic. the manned missions would have been accompanied with the robotics necessary for exploration and enhancement of human survival. At this rate, it will be the Chinese that will get to Mars first and then mine the minerals without regard to environmental considerations. The Chinese cosmonauts will be considered expendable and subjected as guinea pigs for purpose of understanding radiation on humans. They are not so humane as we are. In China, if you are not politician or military, you can be thrown under bus with no regard for cries of protest. If they get to Mars first and occupy the moon, they will have power that you cannot imagine. They are working on new weapons to control even Russia. So your pessimism is visionless and lacks insight. Those probes are not equipped with instruments to find life. Even Curiosity is limited and will not even record moving object. So we are still somewhat blind despite fortunes spent on robots.
tardiz
4.4 / 5 (5) May 15, 2012
What's needed is a real launch system. 10 billion could get an electromagnetic launcher for 100kg payloads, 100 billion and we can start launching multi-thousand kg payloads fo a thousandth of the price of today. With that kind of easy acess to space the field would erupt. A veritable Panama Canal to orbit and beyond.
Deathclock
1.8 / 5 (10) May 15, 2012
I'm not a pessimist I am a realist, comrade.

It won't be economically feasible to mine the moon or mars in our life or our grandchildren's life, and by then it will STILL be more efficient to do it robotically.
ShotmanMaslo
3.5 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
The purposes of space program should be multiple:

1. Scientific exploration, just because humans have desire to know things.
2. Manned spaceflight, just because it is frakking cool.
3. Developing practical technologies for some utility down on Earth.

Dont be so hung up on your pet idea of why we need space program. Others may consider something different to be important.
Skepticus
1.4 / 5 (9) May 15, 2012
I'm not a pessimist I am a realist, comrade.

to mine the moon or mars in our life or our grandchildren's life, and by then it will STILL be more efficient to do it robotically.

Yeah, sure. Everything that you lot DON'T make anymore because "It won't be economically feasible" is being make in China, and you lot are borrowing their money to buy it.
Terriva
1 / 5 (3) May 15, 2012
Astronauts can just fly, but they don't know how to make money for cosmic flights..
panorama
5 / 5 (6) May 15, 2012
So we are still somewhat blind despite fortunes spent on robots.


But those robots have given us mountains of data about the places that some would propose sending humans. Would you rather that humans are just launched towards an object with an estimate of what they will need and an inflated sense of bravado? Seems like that would lead to not only big wastes of money but a few lost lives.
Fisty_McBeefpunch
3.3 / 5 (12) May 15, 2012
Um...why rely on 5 senses when we can build machines that can see beyond our own as well, and do it without the physical risk? I hope someday we can send a man to Mars, but to what point other than to say we did it?

As for doing "nothing": http://www.nasa.g...dex.html
Lurker2358
1.2 / 5 (6) May 15, 2012
CHollman82, I am only guessing, but I think that Lurker feels that it is far more of importance to launch space vehicles again with men aboard than it is to continue to spend fortunes on telescopes to take more pictures.


Not exactly.

I'm in favor of developing maximum automated systems for mining space and space-based energy production on mega-engineering scale.

Art does not help us in our every day life, art is not utilitarian, would you say that art has no worth?


Bad art has no worth, except perhaps as a "what not to do" teaching tool.

I'm not entirely against non-utilitarian things, I do a lot myself. It's just, you know, $10 billion a pop.

No wonder you're so ignorant of science, you have no desire to discover or understand things.


Absolutely and ridiculously false.

Why the hell would I hang out on this site with half of my spare time if I didn't care about learning or discovery?
Deathclock
3 / 5 (12) May 15, 2012
Why the hell would I hang out on this site with half of my spare time if I didn't care about learning or discovery?


Why do all the creationists hang out here? I don't know, sick perversion I can only assume...
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (8) May 15, 2012
Tardiz is correct. A superior launch system is required for such travel to Mars and asteroids. Without better and more efficient rockets and fuel, plus ship design, it would still be too expensive for continuous manned exploration. Realists are in NASA and in American Congress. Perhaps they will abolish NASA and all future manned space programs paid for by NASA to save money?
"Musgrave said that NASA had a series of goals with the construction of the Hubble Space Telescope.
He spent eighteen years helping to design and prepare Hubble for it's launch in 1990. He then flew up to the great observatory to fix a design flaw with it's optical lens and repair twelve other issues three years later."
I cannot help but feel sadness for this American with so many accomplishments. He may not live to see another manned space program, not in his lifetime. NASA no longer has a series of goals except to abandon the science for purpose it was created. What happened? Some say Obama happened.
T2Nav
5 / 5 (6) May 15, 2012
Yes, Mr. Musgrave, there are lots of things I would like to do if money grew on trees too.

As for our lack of an asteroid program or Mars program, hmmm. If I remember correctly, I just read an article about a robot spaceship that's orbiting an asteroid and measuring it right now, and is soon to leave for another asteroid using a novel new engine technology. And in a few months, a car-sized robot is going to plop onto the surface of Mars.

It sounds like it's only a real space program if you're sending humans there. Perhaps this is an anachronism from the Cold War, where space was about who could risk the most and spend the most treasure. But money doesn't grow on trees these days.
Russkiycremepuff
1.3 / 5 (12) May 15, 2012
When China gains superiority in space exploration and manned missions to planet Mars, they will be the superpower and you will all bow down to them. That is the realism that you must think about in your deep concern for money. Your sense of extreme capitalism will do you no good in the end and you will kiss the hand of your Chinese masters. You do not yet understand that they are not like you. There is no room for compassion in their hearts. It is all about efficiency and power.
That is why I say that you in the Western countries are soft and weak. You are more concerned about all the wrong things and ignore the future except what will make you and your grandchildren most comfortable and happy. I see no hope in such kind of realism.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) May 15, 2012
Robotics do not offer the human kind of first-hand experience, and first-hand experimentation with many more tools that are not included in rovers. Full complement of robotics cannot compete with the human mind as it explores a planet with all senses in play and ability to go where rovers cannot climb. Robotics has its place in space programs, of course, but it is not robotics that must find an alternative place to live if we have to get off planet earth quickly because huge asteroid is seen with our telescopes as coming toward us. I am talking about LIFE as we know it, not cogs and wheels.
We have already known sun flares that are not so massive yet. But bigger flares could possibly destroy the ionosphere and leave us open to cosmic radiation. While we might still survive it, there are other things that can make extinction event. Extinction events have happened in the past and we as humans were lucky to not be as we are now, in that time. That is realism of life.
Deathclock
2.9 / 5 (16) May 15, 2012
Hey comrade, listen very carefully, there is no economic or strategic reason to put humans on Mars. Let China send a man to mars, they will mine and bring back the most expensive worthless rock in the history of the world. It will cost MILLIONS of times more to acquire resources from Mars than it would to acquire them from anywhere on Earth. You're nuts.
Fisty_McBeefpunch
1 / 5 (5) May 15, 2012
Ok, I'll throw this fish into the kettle. If NASA is going to focus on manned space exploration, then what advantage does it have within the solar system? If it is going to "aim high" then the focus should be on the inevitable 5 billion years from now. Do we perpetuate the species by moving some humans to another part of the galaxy, or do we simply let it die out completely?

So now we are left with the following problems. 1. Interstellar distance. After all our radio bubble is only 70 ly out. Add to this, that there are only 4 stars within 20 ly of Earth that we know to have planets, and most are hot Jupiter types. 2. Propulsion. How do we get to another star system in an acceptable amount of time. Sure, if we could realistically move at or near the speed of light, we could explore with a probe any planet capable of sustaining human life, but that information alone will take years. Using nuclear pulse propulsion would still take almost 90 years to get to Proxima Centauri! CONT
Fisty_McBeefpunch
1 / 5 (5) May 15, 2012
CONT. Resources. Given the distance and time it would take to get to a proper star system with a proper planet, there will an ability to meet the physical needs of the crew in terms of nutrition, water and medicine. This will be a daunting task if we are going to load a craft and then try to move it close to the speed of light in order to get there before the crew dies of natural causes. But if it is manned space travel you want, this would be the the ultimate goal and some obstacles that will need to be overcome. A Mars expedition would be a good place to test if this is the goal. But to send a man to Mars just to collect data on its rocks...not so much.
tardiz
4.6 / 5 (5) May 15, 2012
Robotics and manned missions are complimentary, not be mutualy exclusive. The problem is a lack of resources not a lack of plans, goals, ambition or even technology. Divert a $100 billion from welfare and military to NASA and we can rock the world.
Terriva
1.6 / 5 (7) May 15, 2012
You will rock the cosmic space, but not the world with such approach. The Russians and Arabians would eat the USA alive. The situation of Israel is miniaturized version of USA situation.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 15, 2012
@ Deathclock
Not really. The Chinese are taking your money without you realising it and you are powerless to do anything. Your president Obama is helping and will continue to help the Socialists in America and the socialists will help American Communist Party after that. I am laughing already.
Chinese will do as they like and someday, they will do to you and your grandchildren.
I see you still worry about almighty dollar. Under Communism you will be paid only what you are worth, and maybe less. You seem to think that the Chinese are only interested in mining. There is more to it than that, Deathclock
Deathclock
2.7 / 5 (12) May 15, 2012
@Fisty:

That goal is currently ridiculous.

I doubt humans will exist in 5 billion years (actually things will start getting pretty dicey in only 4 billion years as the sun begins to cool and expand).

The technology we have now flat out does not allow us to explore other star systems with manned crafts, period, so you can rule that out right now.

Manned exploration of bodies in our own solar system would be neat, but still present many challenges. The furthest we've sent people so far is the moon, the moon is about a half million kilometer trip, the distance traveled to reach mars is almost FIVE HUNDRED MILLION kilometers, a difference of a THOUSAND times... and Mars is very CLOSE compared to the other bodies we would like to explore (Enceladus, Europa, for example)... It's just not feasible.
Deathclock
2.2 / 5 (10) May 15, 2012
In fact, it would be impossible to send humans to most places that we want to explore because no current technology could keep them alive for any amount of time on the surface... It's just stupid wishful thinking and romanticizing space exploration due to star-trek'ism to think that humans will play a significant first person role in the exploration of the universe...
Russkiycremepuff
1.9 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
The only answer to the "Fisty Conundrum" on page 1, is to build a ship that is very much like the earth itself but smaller that can move through intergalactic or interstellar space through many generations. The ship will be almost like second home to the travelers. Since it is impossible to move at or near c, a more reasonable speed will be sufficient. Speed of light is not healthy for human bodies, I don't think so. And yes, Mars is needed first for more immediate future.
Fisty_McBeefpunch
1.6 / 5 (7) May 15, 2012
@Deathclock:

That was exactly my point. Given the constraints, that is almost an impossibility. And yes, I used 5 billion since most already would know what I meant by it. But anyway, beyond sparing extinction, I see no real value in manned exploration. Sure, it would be cool to actually handle a rock from Mars or some other place in the Solar System, but ultimately it will go "under the microscope" so to speak, so actually holding it is not relevant.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
Yes Deathclock, no CURRENT technology could keep them alive. But, my question to you now is:
1) Do you prefer that only probes and rovers continue the exploration without humans also in space?
2) Is it your wish to allow the People's Republic of China to occupy the moon and Mars as strategic military outposts with targets in American soil and areas of Europe?
3) Do you really believe that Chinese scientists, military and government officials are only interested in bringing back boulders from the moon and Mars?
ShotmanMaslo
1.7 / 5 (6) May 15, 2012
In fact, it would be impossible to send humans to most places that we want to explore because no current technology could keep them alive for any amount of time on the surface... It's just stupid wishful thinking and romanticizing space exploration due to star-trek'ism to think that humans will play a significant first person role in the exploration of the universe...


Colonizing the LEO, Moon and most likely Mars is perfectly possible to do with current and upcoming technology, even economically.

People are not aware of just how much potential for cost reduction things in the pipeline posses (new EELVs like Falcon or Atlas Phase II, Bigelow habitats, Skylon spaceplane, ULA propellant depots, ion engines, VASIMR, in situ resource utilisation..).

Manned spaceflight and space colonization does not necessarily have to be very expensive, thats a misconception caused by the Shuttle economic disaster:
Deathclock
2.1 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
Manned spaceflight is always much more expensive for the very simple fact that humans require food water air and heat... all of these things add huge costs to any spacecraft, both directly and indirectly.
ShotmanMaslo
1.7 / 5 (6) May 15, 2012
In particular, NASA administrator Michael D. Griffin argued in a 2007 paper that the Saturn program, if continued, could have provided six manned launches per year two of them to the moon at the same cost as the Shuttle program, with an additional ability to loft infrastructure for further missions:
"If we had done all this, we would be on Mars today, not writing about it as a subject for the next 50 years. We would have decades of experience operating long-duration space systems in Earth orbit, and similar decades of experience in exploring and learning to utilize the Moon."
Deathclock
2.3 / 5 (12) May 15, 2012
1) Do you prefer that only probes and rovers continue the exploration without humans also in space?


If money was not an issue? No, I would prefer humans to go. In the real world? Absolutely.

2) Is it your wish to allow the People's Republic of China to occupy the moon and Mars as strategic military outposts with targets in American soil and areas of Europe?


This is stupid beyond belief.

3)Do you really believe that Chinese scientists, military and government officials are only interested in bringing back boulders from the moon and Mars?


You're the one that brought up mining... I was responding to that.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (8) May 15, 2012
Yes, on first page I had said, "At this rate, it will be the Chinese that will get to Mars first and then mine the minerals without regard to environmental considerations." and on this page I said, "You seem to think that the Chinese are only interested in mining". It was meant in "as opposed to military purposes".
The Chinese will mine for certain minerals, that is true, just as Americans would. The difference, I might be naive in thinking, is that the Americans would be more concerned environmentally. Rovers are not equipped to dig for uranium or plutonium presently, but I am sure that the Chinese will bring equipment for that purpose, although I do not know how they would process such ore. Diamonds and gold can be sent back to earth. If they colonise, they will create alternative habitats.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
Why is the #2 question stupid? You do not have to answer. This is not interrogation.
Deathclock
2.1 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
Neither the moon nor mars are "strategic"... We might as well build a military base at the bottom of the Marianas Trench for as strategic as it would be to build one on MARS!
Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (5) May 15, 2012
America is Bankrupt and won't even exist as a nation within the next decade.

Space belongs to the Socialists.
Deathclock
2.1 / 5 (14) May 15, 2012
America is Bankrupt and won't even exist as a nation within the next decade.

Space belongs to the Socialists.


You're intellectually bankrupt right now...
Fisty_McBeefpunch
2.5 / 5 (8) May 15, 2012
@Russkiycremepuff

LOL! We could always transfer funds to SETI and have them contact Slaribartfast. He does fjords you know. ;)
Russkiycremepuff
2 / 5 (12) May 15, 2012
Ah yes, this is in reference Hitchhiker's Guide. Popular book in some Russian circles.
Russkiycremepuff
1.7 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
I have read three books of Guide. I enjoy reading the English and I hope to know enough to become English professor at University when I go home.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
I have now dropped my plate of pampushki. Roommates dog jumped on my lap to attack the food.
Or he is attacking me?
Anyway, I do admire the cosmonaut Musgrave. So many things he has done in his life. I am envious.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
America is Bankrupt and won't even exist as a nation within the next decade.

Space belongs to the Socialists.
- Vendicar -

You are mistaken, Vendicar. Space travel will belong to Communists. Socialists, just like Capitalists are soft and weak crybabies. Socialists are too easy on the porch sitters who expect to get paid for doing nothing but make more babies. We do not tolerate such who are weak-willed. Our people are strong and ready to go to moon and Mars and help each other.
I believe you should think it over.
CHollman82
2.7 / 5 (12) May 15, 2012
Yeah, you'll go to Mars, just like your people drilled haphazardly into lake Vostok and corrupted it, rendering any research or scientific study impossible, well done. Make sure you bring tons of bacteria to Mars when you go so you can ruin that for real scientists too.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
Neither the moon nor mars are "strategic"... We might as well build a military base at the bottom of the Marianas Trench for as strategic as it would be to build one on MARS!
Deathclock -

You do not understand. The moon and Mars are strategic places for weapons emplacement and with faster rockets, many ICBMs that are equipped for space travel can reach the earth very quickly in the future. Maybe not now, but it will happen.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 15, 2012
Yeah, you'll go to Mars, just like your people drilled haphazardly into lake Vostok and corrupted it, rendering any research or scientific study impossible, well done. Make sure you bring tons of bacteria to Mars when you go so you can ruin that for real scientists too.
- CHollman82 -

I make no excuses for our scientists. I will have to read further about it. Do you have a link, please?
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (3) May 15, 2012
Possibly.

I won't be too upset if your claim turns out to be correct.

"You are mistaken, Vendicar. Space travel will belong to Communists. " - Russki

Better Cremated than Capitalist.
CHollman82
2 / 5 (8) May 15, 2012
Russkiycremepuff
1.7 / 5 (11) May 15, 2012
Perhaps they are more like Russian bears than Russian scientists. I think the word for it is snafu? or was it fubar? I am learning all these American English slang words that make no sense to me. (laughing)
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (1) May 15, 2012
And Russian Women are such fantastic Babes.

"Our people are strong and ready to go to moon and Mars and help each other." - Russki

http://www.ukrain...rain.jpg
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) May 15, 2012
Thank you, CHollman for the link. I am very impressed with o3epo BocToK. I did not know much about it before. I am now concerned as to the microbes, bacteria that are so old in that lake and that they might be dangerous to life if they are not contained well. I am sure they are careful, but how about quarantine of ice core?
This has me worried also: "Scientists suggested that the lake could possess a unique habitat for ancient bacteria with an isolated microbial gene pool containing characteristics developed perhaps 500,000 years ago.[47"
Incidentally, I did not read anything to indicate that the water of the lake has been pierced already. Only some meters above it and then work stopped for the winter.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 15, 2012
And Russian Women are such fantastic Babes.

"Our people are strong and ready to go to moon and Mars and help each other." - Russki

http://www.ukrain...rain.jpg
- Vendicar -

Yes, all Russian women are beautiful. I will go home to marry one in about six months. Ukrainian girls are pretty but they do not care so much for Russian men. I think they prefer their Cossacks. (laughing)
CHollman82
1.9 / 5 (9) May 15, 2012
Incidentally, I did not read anything to indicate that the water of the lake has been pierced already. Only some meters above it and then work stopped for the winter.


They reached the surface of the lake on Feb. 6 of this year. There was kerosene and silicon oil in the borehole. It's yet to be seen the damage that was caused due to the contaminants.
CHollman82
2.4 / 5 (10) May 15, 2012
You do not understand. The moon and Mars are strategic places for weapons emplacement and with faster rockets, many ICBMs that are equipped for space travel can reach the earth very quickly in the future. Maybe not now, but it will happen.


You do understand that there is a narrow window of opportunity when a spacecraft launched from Earth could even reach Mars at all, right? I can't help but assume this would be true for the return trip. Mars and Earth do not sit in space motionless relative to each other, you can't just aim a ballistic missile toward the Earth from the Martian surface and hit it, it is extremely complicated, we employ a technique called gravitational assist using the suns own gravity to accelerate the craft past the sun, at which point it slowly catches up to Mars, which is moving away from it, until it finally gets close enough when we fire rockets to slow the craft down so that Mars can capture it with it's own gravity... none of this is easy...
CHollman82
2.1 / 5 (9) May 15, 2012
I couldn't find the animation for Mars, but here is how we are going to get a probe to Jupiter... do you see how complex this is? Good luck hitting a specific target on Earth using trajectories like this!

http://www.youtub...5p2oL51g
ShotmanMaslo
2.5 / 5 (8) May 16, 2012
panorama
not rated yet May 16, 2012
Perhaps they are more like Russian bears than Russian scientists. I think the word for it is snafu? or was it fubar? I am learning all these American English slang words that make no sense to me. (laughing)


More specifically those are military slang words.
http://en.wikiped...ng_terms
Vendicar_Decarian
1.7 / 5 (6) May 16, 2012
No corporation has ever gotten out of earth's orbit, and none have gotten into orbit without massive government subsidies.

Capitalism is pathetic isn't it?

"Nope, space belongs to the capitalists:" - ShotManTard

It just ain't profitable.
ShotmanMaslo
2.8 / 5 (9) May 16, 2012
No corporation has ever gotten out of earth's orbit, and none have gotten into orbit without massive government subsidies.

Capitalism is pathetic isn't it?

"Nope, space belongs to the capitalists:" - ShotManTard

It just ain't profitable.


Thats like saying in 1980s that the internet is just not profitable, since only government and some universities had networks.

Spaceflight indeed was not profitable in the past, but its slowly becoming now, and will be in the future. This is repeated with all technologies - first, only governments can afford them. Then very rich people. Then the price drops further, and government subsidies are no longer needed. See for example airplanes or cars.

Besides, capitalism/socialism is a false ideological dichotomy. Combined and pragmatic approach is usually the best.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (3) May 16, 2012
An amusing claim given that there are exactly zero private space firms.

"Spaceflight indeed was not profitable in the past, but its slowly becoming now" - ShotMan

"Combined and pragmatic approach is usually the best." - Shotman

That would be Socialism.

Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 16, 2012



You do understand that there is a narrow window of opportunity when a spacecraft launched from Earth could even reach Mars at all, right? I can't help but assume this would be true for the return trip. Mars and Earth do not sit in space motionless relative to each other, you can't just aim a ballistic missile toward the Earth from the Martian surface and hit it, it is extremely complicated, we employ a technique called gravitational assist using the suns own gravity to accelerate the craft past the sun, at which point it slowly catches up to Mars, which is moving away from it, until it finally gets close enough when we fire rockets to slow the craft down so that Mars can capture it with it's own gravity... none of this is easy... - CH -

Yes, from Mars you are correct. But not from moon. With full control of moon, Chinese military can hit almost anywhere on earth with correct technology. Once they gain that control, do you think the Chinese will want to share the moon with
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 16, 2012
- cont'd -
Americans or Europeans? I do not believe so. It would be a great vantage point for their military to choose where warheads will hit. If Russians get to moon first, we will gladly share with Westerners, but on our terms. We could also collaborate with Chinese and they and Russians own the moon. It will be the same result. While you Americans are enjoying your money, Chinese will be deciding how to take over your country.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 16, 2012
Perhaps they are more like Russian bears than Russian scientists. I think the word for it is snafu? or was it fubar? I am learning all these American English slang words that make no sense to me. (laughing)


More specifically those are military slang words.
http://en.wikiped...ng_terms
- panorama -

Thank you. I had heard those terms, but I was not aware of what they meant and hesitated to ask the American soldiers for meanings. I added them to my lists. Russian Army is forbidden to be snafu, fubar or the other euphemisms. We have much pride in our military.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 16, 2012
I have much dislike for Socialism. It benefits millions of porch sitters who are the pirates and brigands who consider they are entitled to not work. America venerates the porch sitters at expense of manned space programs and it will be their undoing. American kids are failing sciences at high percentages and new generations will lack knowledge of technology needed for engineering for robotics and spaceship building. I am amused at dumbing down of Americans and I applaud socialist teachers for teaching in all seriousness the cucumber trick to schoolchildren. I also think it is amusing the American war on the heterosexual white men and how so many white people are labeled the racists while they are being beaten by black teenagers. It is like comedy of clowns everywhere in America. This is clown country.
ShotmanMaslo
2.1 / 5 (7) May 17, 2012
An amusing claim given that there are exactly zero private space firms.


I have just linked no less than 6 space startups earlier. And some of them have already outperformed NASA in terms of bang for the buck.

"That would be Socialism."

Maybe by stupid American definition. Social CAPITALISM (social democracy, welfare capitalism) is the correct term. Majority of the means of production are owned privately, it cannot be socialism.
panorama
not rated yet May 17, 2012
Thank you. I had heard those terms, but I was not aware of what they meant and hesitated to ask the American soldiers for meanings. I added them to my lists. Russian Army is forbidden to be snafu, fubar or the other euphemisms. We have much pride in our military.


You're very welcome. We also have pride in our military (I personally have two brothers serving), but those terms refer to military situations not personnel. Most of them were coined during WWII.
Russkiycremepuff
1.5 / 5 (8) May 17, 2012
There are many coined words and phrases that I must add to my lists to teach my countrymen when I go home. American English is a bit more difficult than British due to all the slang from one region of America to another. You have too mush diversity for my taste. The British also has slang but more silly nonsense from British teenagers. GB also has their ghettoes just like America, but not so much dumbed down by Socialist teachers. However, they are working on dumbing down students.
In Russia we do not have such problem. That is why we do not want our clean youth tainted with American Socialist and ghetto values. We observe products of America"s mistakes and we do not wish for such to happen to us.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) May 17, 2012
Cosmonaut Musgrave would enjoy living in Russian Federation. We are very serious about our future manned missions.
Deathclock
1.5 / 5 (8) May 17, 2012
Cosmonaut Musgrave would enjoy living in Russian Federation. We are very serious about our future manned missions.


Really? What is your space program been up to in the last decade or so? I ask because here in America we have successfully privatized space and in doing so have several new rocket designs, including a brand new heavy lift rocket that is scheduled to dock with the ISS in a few months... what's Russia up to?
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) May 17, 2012
There have been private space startups since I was a wee lad.

They always go broke and shut down.

"I have just linked no less than 6 space startups earlier" - ShotMan
Deathclock
2.5 / 5 (11) May 17, 2012
There have been private space startups since I was a wee lad.

They always go broke and shut down.

"I have just linked no less than 6 space startups earlier" - ShotMan


You understand that SpaceX has put 2 different rockets of their own design in LEO right? You understand that they have completed commercial missions already right? How about that they will be docking with the ISS later this year, did you know that?
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (4) May 17, 2012
Ahahahahahahahahahaahah.......

"I ask because here in America we have successfully privatized space" - DeathTard

What have the Russians been doing?

Saving America's sorry ass.
Deathclock
2.2 / 5 (10) May 17, 2012
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) May 17, 2012
I wish them all the luck in the world.

When is the ISS scheduled to be pushed out of the sky? 2015? 2.5 years from now?

"How about that they will be docking with the ISS later this year, did you know that?" - DeathTard

Snicker... You really need to get back on your playstation and play some more video games to learn how the world works.

Ahahahahahah........

Deathclock
1.8 / 5 (10) May 17, 2012
I wish them all the luck in the world.

When is the ISS scheduled to be pushed out of the sky? 2015? 2.5 years from now?


That doesn't in any way diminish the technical accomplishment of the first private space agency successfully docking with another space craft in orbit (when they do, I know I'm jumping the gun a bit here...)
ShotmanMaslo
2.3 / 5 (6) May 18, 2012

When is the ISS scheduled to be pushed out of the sky? 2015? 2.5 years from now?


Nope, as far as I know 2025 is the current earliest possible date.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (11) May 18, 2012
Cosmonaut Musgrave would enjoy living in Russian Federation. We are very serious about our future manned missions.


Really? What is your space program been up to in the last decade or so? I ask because here in America we have successfully privatized space and in doing so have several new rocket designs, including a brand new heavy lift rocket that is scheduled to dock with the ISS in a few months... what's Russia up to?
- Deathclock -

We in Russian Federation have many manned mission projects for future, happening now. Perhaps you believe that past mistakes have made our scientists so depressed? That is not the case.
I am not free to divulge such secrets or I will be forced to go home and maybe house arrest. They are monitoring me. Perhaps I should not mention this, but we have spies in your country and in your space industries. You are helping us without knowing such. It is the same with China. They have already your information because Americans are stupid.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (10) May 18, 2012
Cosmonaut Musgrave understands the politics of the NASA and its close association to Socialism via the present NASA and Obama administrations. He is not so old that he cannot recognise the con job. Even if private space companies will succeed, they must still be paid from federal budget, not from charity like United Way. If your Congress cuts budget further, Obama will blame the Republicans and will not take blame on himself. Obama is typical socialist who loves the porch sitters enough to destroy America. He could never be good or useful Communist.
panorama
not rated yet May 18, 2012
good or useful Communist.

Isn't that an oxymoron?
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (11) May 18, 2012
No it is not. Communism is good for the world and it is useful system that enables to have 100% able bodied workers employed. We are more efficient than your government and your socialist ideas for taking care of the masses. Our own people know where they stand and it is positive approach for better understanding. In America, nobody knows where they stand and always with negative feelings between all groups. There is no trust in your country. You cannot trust your government because it is socialist, but even your capitalist system is somewhat corrupt and you do not insist to have it monitored. You do not understand enough the human nature and because of this, capitalism is ruined when it could be a glorious system. It is the corruption that is killing it and socialists understand this corruption because they also indulge in it. The only ones that is winning are the porch sitters. We have capital in my country, but it is very much monitored to prevent the corruption disease.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) May 18, 2012
"That doesn't in any way diminish the technical accomplishment of the first private space agency successfully docking with another space craft in orbit." - DeathTard

Isn't Rocketdyne a private company? Isn't McDonald Douglas a corporation? How about any of the other contractors that NASA employs to construct it's spacecraft?

SpaceX is just going to be sucking on the same government teat as the rest of them. Provided they don't blow up on the launching pad or crash into the ISS.
Calenur
5 / 5 (2) May 20, 2012
I really am quite tired of this America vs. China Vs. Russia nonsense. Any progress toward more efficient space exploration is a huge win; keep your nationalist shit at the door.