Using less effort to think, opinions lean more conservative

Apr 05, 2012

(PhysOrg.com) -- When people use low-effort thought, they are more likely to endorse conservative ideology, according to psychologist Scott Eidelman of the University of Arkansas. Results of research by Eidelman and colleagues were published online in Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin.

“People endorse conservative ideology more when they have to give a first or fast response,” Eidelman said. “This low-effort thinking seems to favor political conservatism, suggesting that it may be our default ideology. To be clear, we are not saying that conservatives think lightly.”

While ideology – either conservative or liberal – is a product of a variety of influences, including goals, values and personal experiences, Eidelman said, “Our data suggest that when people have no particular goal in mind, their initial cognitive response seems to be conservative.”

Eidelman collaborated with Christian Crandall of the University of Kansas; Jeffrey A. Goodman of University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire; and John C. Blanchar, a University of Arkansas graduate student, on studies reported in “Low-Effort Thought Promotes Political Conservatism.”

The researchers examined the effect of low-effort thought on the expression of ideology in several situations. In a field study, bar patrons were asked their opinions about several social issues before blowing into a Breathalyzer. Whether the individual self-identified as liberal or conservative, higher blood alcohol levels were associated with endorsement of more conservative positions. The results indicated that this was not because the conservatives drank more than the liberals.

The results were not just the alcohol talking: In one lab experiment, some participants were asked to respond quickly to political ideas, while others had ample time to respond. In another, some participants were able to concentrate while responding to political statements, while others were distracted. In both cases, participants with less opportunity to deliberate endorsed conservative ideas more than those who were able to concentrate.

In a fourth study, deliberation was manipulated directly. Some participants gave their “first, immediate response” to political terms, while others gave “a careful, thoughtful response.” Those instructed to think in a cursory manner were more likely to endorse conservative terms, such as authority, tradition and private property, than those who had time to reflect.

The researchers stressed that their results should not be interpreted to suggest that conservatives are not thoughtful.

“Everyone uses low-effort thinking, and this may have ideological consequences,” they write. “Motivational factors are crucial determinants of ideology, aiding or correcting initial responses depending on one’s goals, beliefs and values. Our perspective suggests that these initial and uncorrected responses lean conservative.”

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More information: psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/03/16/0146167212439213.abstract?rss=1

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dogbert
2.6 / 5 (27) Apr 05, 2012
It is continually instructive to observe political posturing dressed up in scientific garb to lend credence to B.S.

So when people are distracted, prevented from carefully thinking about a proposition or drunk, they produce conservative responses. The implication, according to Scott Eidelman and company is that stupid = conservative.

An alternate and more honest evaluation of the so called research is that people tend to be honest when they have little time to fabricate a response and that such honest responses tend to be conservative.

From this, we might conclude that, at least in America, people tend toward conservative attitudes.

But the study publishers might have to abandon their political posturing if they just concluded that people tend toward conservative positions.

Ophelia
4 / 5 (9) Apr 05, 2012
Feeling a bit put upon, dogbert?

The results of this "study", however much credence you wish to give it, seem straightforward to me. The initial, fast, "conservative" response is not to jump off the cliff. But after some reflection, you, Butch, and Sundance might decide that "liberal" jumping is the better option, or, in fact, that "conservative" staying put is better.

Without seeing the questions and knowing how "conservative" was defined as opposed to "liberal", it seems to me that there is little in the way of conclusions that can be drawn from this article. Even the words "liberal" and "conservative" have undergone definitional changes over the last 150 years.

The only conclusion I could draw was that we start off with an opinion base at some "point" on the political spectrum - probably have to start off some place after all. It just so happens it may be a conservative position. Subsequent analysis may confirm that position or move us to a more liberal one. Hardly posturing.
Birger
4.3 / 5 (13) Apr 05, 2012
Dogbert, you missed this:
"To be clear, we are not saying that conservatives think lightly.
and
"The researchers stressed that their results should not be interpreted to suggest that conservatives are not thoughtful"

so it is not as if they consider conservatives to be "Dilbert's boss"/Homer Simpson/Peter Griffin.

A better explantion is that non-intuitive solutions require more deliberation, while thinking in a cursory manner is useful in time-critical situations. If you are escaping from lions it makes sense to let cursory thinking be the default.
Modernmystic
2.7 / 5 (17) Apr 05, 2012
"To be clear, we are not saying that conservatives think lightly.
and
"The researchers stressed that their results should not be interpreted to suggest that conservatives are not thoughtful"


Nice try, but EXTREMELY thin cover for the "researchers"...

A wise man once told me that you should ignore everything anyone says in a sentence before the word "but"...this feels a lot like that.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (25) Apr 05, 2012
Does effort correlate with results?
Socialists have been 'thinking' and promoting socialism for decades and continue to fail.
Knowing what is right and wrong does not require much thought. Scheming to do wrong, to legally plunder, may require extra thought to keep the plundered from retaliating.
Deadbolt
2.1 / 5 (10) Apr 05, 2012
What's interesting to me is that it's not just social conservatism, but the economically libertarian side of conservatism that is having less thought put into it.

Kind of an amazing coincidence that only social libertarianism (liberalism) is the correct policy. Why do people think more when talking about women's/gay/black rights, than when they talk about things like low taxes, the free market, and the detrimental effects of endless money printing and stifling bureaucracy?

I think they should isolate these views and study "libertarians" next (social AND economic libertarians).
Kozyrai
2.3 / 5 (26) Apr 05, 2012
The authors miss the obvious. The same result would be found if they were studying the difference between truth and fiction. Liberalism is all about deception and lies. Everything liberals support requires obfuscation and convuluted thinking. Conservativism is the fallback position because it is based on fundamental truths and does not have a devious agenda. Liberal ideology is contrived and dishonest. Plain and simple, making things up, promoting fiction and lying takes more mental energy than stating reality and the truth.
kochevnik
3.2 / 5 (19) Apr 05, 2012
@Kozyrai Liberalism is all about deception and lies.
Actually liberalism is about escaping the dark ages and inquisition from authoritarian stormtroopers like you. And science isn't about making things up LOL, no matter how many times you repeat your hollow, mindless mantras.

This and other studies show that conservatives are either brain damaged or fascists. Either way they should be detected by an in-vitro test so the parents can make a prudent decision if they want a disabled child. If they need a sociopath heir for their corporation they may keep it anyway.
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (18) Apr 05, 2012
economically libertarian side of conservatism that is having less thought put into it.

KISS.
Free market economies need little more thought. They have been demonstrated to be effective for centuries.
It is legal plunder, socialism, that requires much extra thought to find more creative ways to deceive and plunder.
'Progressives' <=>'liberal'<=>socialist<=>fascist<=>communist are all the same, they all put significant effort into finding ways to plunder wealth using state power.
axemaster
4.3 / 5 (10) Apr 05, 2012
THIS IS DEVASTATING! BOW DOWN YOU ANIMALS!

When we scientists take over, you will all be punished.
Sincerely,
An Evil Scientist
BIG COCK
3.4 / 5 (8) Apr 05, 2012
God this article was just begging to turn into a firestorm of comments. I'll bet the mod's will close the comments section by the end of the week.

DO A BARREL ROLL
Moebius
4.3 / 5 (6) Apr 05, 2012
LOL Not a surprising conclusion since it took heavy thought to come up with. Also a conclusion that thinkers have always known.
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (17) Apr 05, 2012
'Liberal', aka socialist, govts are failing around the world so the predictable blame game begins.
One of the first steps is to insult their opponents.
Articles such as these, and there have been many lately, indicate anti-socialists are making their case.
Skultch
4.5 / 5 (10) Apr 05, 2012
Is is logical to say that, much like science, the "low hanging fruit" of political discovery is in the past and the dilemmas we have left are inherently complicated? Are "conservatives" now merely working on the obsolete assumption that "KISS" is always best in every situation "because my daddy and his daddy did it that way and it worked for them," ignoring the very real and inherently complex and nuanced socio-political decisions that are left?
axemaster
4.3 / 5 (12) Apr 05, 2012
ignoring the very real and inherently complex and nuanced socio-political decisions that are left?

The sad thing is that most conservatives probably won't understand what you just said. Much less be capable of educating themselves effectively.

Also, I think this gives us a better understanding of why universities are much more liberal than the average...
Skultch
2 / 5 (4) Apr 05, 2012
Is it true that the far right and left will BOTH say that we are very far from an optimized govt/social/economic structure? Is it also true that most centrists would say we are much closer to full optimization (will never get there; imagine exponential curve) and the incremental improvements that are possible will be increasingly difficult to achieve, and less worth the effort, the further along you progress?
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (15) Apr 05, 2012

Universities are 'liberal' because that is the only place they can be paid to be 'liberal'.
inherently complex and nuanced socio-political decisions that are left?

They are labeled " complex and nuanced" by those who intentionally obfuscate to stay in power.
"The Intellectuals and Socialism"
http://mises.org/...uals.pdf
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (15) Apr 05, 2012
"In the end, though, the really galling thing about the spontaneous order that free markets produce is not its imperfection but its spontaneity: the fact that it is a creation not our own. It transcends the conscious direction of human will and is therefore an affront to human pride."
http://econlog.ec...tic.html

KISS because it IS simple.
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (15) Apr 05, 2012
"US higher education often looks like a clear case of the inmates running the asylum. That is, the students who were radicalized in the 1960s have now risen to positions of influence within colleges and universities. One needs only to observe the aggressive pursuit of "diversity" in admissions and hiring, the abandonment of the traditional curriculum in favor of highly politicized "studies" based on group identity, the mandatory workshops on sensitivity training, and so on."
"Hayek argues that exceptionally intelligent people who favor the market tend to find opportunities for professional and financial success outside the Academy (i.e., in the business or professional world). Those who are highly intelligent but ill-disposed toward the market are more likely to choose an academic career. For this reason, the universities come to be filled with those intellectuals who were favorably disposed toward socialism from the beginning."
http://mises.org/daily/2318
Skultch
3.3 / 5 (7) Apr 05, 2012
... or maybe, when pressed for time, people react selfishly and project what they think works for them onto what they think works for regional/national policy.
Tennex
3.1 / 5 (7) Apr 05, 2012
When people use low-effort thought, they are more likely to endorse conservative ideology
This is rather diplomatic way to say, the schematically acting people relying to established rules and paradigms are just plain silly. The conservatives really have different brains. The things aren't so simple though, because the extreme conservatives - like the autistic people, who avoid every change in their life (do you remember the famous Rain Man movie?) often exhibit savant abilities in many areas and they do excel in math.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (11) Apr 05, 2012
... or maybe, when pressed for time, people react selfishly and project what they think works for them onto what they think works for regional/national policy.

Who believes plunder works for them?
kaasinees
3.4 / 5 (10) Apr 05, 2012
Everyone uses low-effort thinking, and this may have ideological consequences,

Their ideology is filling their pockets and screwing over the rest of the planet, not much thinking is required at all.
Code_Warrior
3 / 5 (6) Apr 06, 2012
Wisdom = low effort thinking. Sophisticated plans designed to extract a few extra percent of improvement over much simpler and more conservative plans tend to be rarely worth the extra effort and tend to be less fault tolerant.
kochevnik
3.9 / 5 (7) Apr 06, 2012
'Liberal', aka socialist, govts are failing around the world so the predictable blame game begins.
Not as fast as your fascist police state. In face, beyond the Rothchilds bankster's G5 nations the world economy went up 7% last year.
When we scientists take over, you will all be punished.
Oh god yes where do I apply?
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
The study is faulty because it does not take into consideration that the fast Conservative response would have been a result of prior deeply ingrained Conservative beliefs that were carefully thought out from lengthy experience beforehand. The obviously Liberal psychologist in charge of this study presumes that, had the subject had more time to think about it, they would have chosen a more Liberal or Socialist view and answered accordingly. That could not be further from the truth. One does not become a Liberal through mulling over the pros and cons of each political ideology over a period of a few hours or a day, while jumping from a more Conservative point of view without proper justification. Liberal thought, as well as Conservative thought and beliefs, are not usually extricated easily within a context of stress or inebriation, nor of threats or cajoling.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
"This low-effort thinking seems to favor political conservatism, suggesting that it may be our default ideology. To be clear, we are not saying that conservatives think lightly."

The paragraph above from the article is clearly condescending to avoid the possibility of alienating rational Conservative thinkers. Political Conservatism is never a "default" ideology. It is well thought out over time and becomes a "belief" that does not require an internal argument with oneself with further convincing data relative to Conservative ideas.
On the contrary, it is Liberal and Socialist ideas that do not require deliberate moral justification to be implemented in the mind and acted upon. It is Liberal and Socialist thought that requires less reaction time to be presented as an ideal. The terms of authority, tradition and private property are not exclusively in the Conservative realm. But they do have, in large measure, a place amongst rational ideas.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.8 / 5 (42) Apr 06, 2012
These comments are so funny.

What we witness in the comments themselves are knee jerk reactions from ConervaTards trying to justify their loathsome liedeology and well structured, well though responses from Liberal thinkers pointing out the childishness of the Conservative's remarks.

These response comments themselves are a fine example of exactly what the article is referring to.

Low Brainpower = Conservative thinking.

But then we all knew it before the research was done, didn't we?

Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (40) Apr 06, 2012
And that my little children is why a plurality of Conservatives believe in Angels, Aliens, God, and that cutting taxes increases tax revenues, but don't believe in Global Warming, Evolution, Ethics, etc...

"It is well thought out over time and becomes a "belief" that does not require an internal argument with oneself with further convincing data relative to Conservative ideas." - Russkyi
CardacianNeverid
4.5 / 5 (10) Apr 06, 2012
Liberalism is all about deception and lies. Everything liberals support requires obfuscation and convuluted thinking -kozyTard

Poor tard is incapable of understanding nuance, subtlety and balanced reasoning, so he lashes out and uses simplistic labels to denigrate those than can.

Conservativism is the fallback position because it is based on fundamental truths -kozyTard

You got that right tard boy, fallback to simple slogans and immutable ideologies handed to you by faux news no doubt.

Liberal ideology is contrived and dishonest. Plain and simple -kozyTard

You certainly are plain and simple. Thanks for proving it.

Vendicar_Decarian
0.6 / 5 (41) Apr 06, 2012
Translation: Science is showing that Conservative Liedeology is based on slack jawed, low capacity, thinking. While Liberal thinking is more sophisticated, and nuanced.

This is why Universities are known as bastions of Liberalism. The successful who graduate have learned how to think rationally for the most part, and are therefore disproportionately Liberal.

"It is continually instructive to observe political posturing dressed up in scientific garb to lend credence to B.S." - DogberTard
Vendicar_Decarian
0.8 / 5 (42) Apr 06, 2012
Perhaps this is why - like chimps - Conservatives destroy or damage anything they touch. They are incapable of comprehending or appreciating the nuance and subtle nature of the universe, or the modern world.

"Destroying" the "enemy" seems their primary preoccupation.

You can't get more base or vile than that.

"The implication, according to Scott Eidelman and company is that stupid = conservative." - DogBerTare

I have never encountered a Conservative who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (41) Apr 06, 2012
The entire world is socialist according to RyggTard.

"Socialists have been 'thinking' and promoting socialism for decades and continue to fail." - RyggTard

Seems like a great success to me.

Suck it up Tard Boy. Your childish Libertarian/Randite ideology can't even get any respect on the American Republican ticket.

If you can't get a win there, you never will.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (41) Apr 06, 2012
You may find reality insulting RyggTard. But that is just more evidence of your intellectual failure.

"One of the first steps is to insult their opponents." - RyggTard
Vendicar_Decarian
0.6 / 5 (41) Apr 06, 2012
You left out "By Da Evils Gubderment wits Money Stolen from me."

"Universities are 'liberal' because that is the only place they can be paid to be 'liberal'." - RyggTard

Suck it up Tard. Universities are full of Liberals who are vastly more intelligent than you are even capable of imagining.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (41) Apr 06, 2012
Odd how this "spontaneous order" in the U.S. banking industry resulting in a near economic depression for the U.S.. A condition that your sad country is still recovering from.

"about the spontaneous order that free markets produce" - RyggTard

Spontaneous order = Monopoly.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.8 / 5 (42) Apr 06, 2012
And that my dear children is why people from around the world still flock to U.S. Universities to get what can be the best graduate, and post graduate education in the world.

"US higher education often looks like a clear case of the inmates running the asylum." - RyggTard

All those silly Liberal "asylum inmates" doing all those lunatic things like curing diseases, building spacecraft, developing nano-tech technoloty, semiconductor technology, new operating systems, optics, and learning about how the world works.

Complete insanity, according to Libertarian/Randite Economist Ludwig Von Mises.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (41) Apr 06, 2012
Stupid questions typically come from stupid people.

"Who believes plunder works for them?" - RyggTard

The only plunder at work here is your unthinking parasitism on intellectual society.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (41) Apr 06, 2012
Conservatives don't even have that.

"Wisdom = low effort thinking." - Code Warrior

Wisdom = save for a rainy day.
Conservative = Borrow and spend your nation into bankruptcy

Wisdom = Love thy neighbour
Conservative = Hate everyone who is different. Muslims, Gays, Blacks, Mexicans, etc. etc.. etc...

Wisdom = Increase Government spending in times of need.
Conservative = Decrease Government spending in times of need.

Wisdom = An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Conservative = Deny a problem exists, ignore it and then when it becomes a crisis, blame the Liberals, and then whine about the high cost of the cure.

Russkiycremepuff
1.5 / 5 (8) Apr 06, 2012
"Wisdom = save for a rainy day.
Conservative = Borrow and spend your nation into bankruptcy"


Fact: Save for a rainy day is very much a Conservative value.
Fact: Printing more money is a Liberal value - per Obama administration.

Wisdom = Love thy neighbour
Conservative = Hate everyone who is different. Muslims, Gays, Blacks, Mexicans, etc. etc.. etc...


Fact: Love thy neighbour has religious connotations and makes no sense. Having a mutual respect with your neighbour and greater understanding of one another is a Conservative value. No need to hate anyone whether different or the same. Again, mutual respect.

Russkiycremepuff
2 / 5 (9) Apr 06, 2012
"Wisdom = Increase Government spending in times of need.
Conservative = Decrease Government spending in times of need."


Fact: The increases in spending by government is what got the U.S. and European countries in financial trouble in the first place. Government spending in times of need is for the needs of the government, not the people whose primary needs are jobs.

"Wisdom = An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Conservative = Deny a problem exists, ignore it and then when it becomes a crisis, blame the Liberals, and then whine about the high cost of the cure."



Yes. That Conservative ounce of prevention is to tackle the problems immediately by not allowing increased government spending for programs that have already proven to be failures and which encourages irresponsibility, unaccountability and corruption. Liberals are fond of supporting those three evils and blaming Conservatives when things go badly.
Russkiycremepuff
1.8 / 5 (10) Apr 06, 2012
And that my little children is why a plurality of Conservatives believe in Angels, Aliens, God, and that cutting taxes increases tax revenues, but don't believe in Global Warming, Evolution, Ethics, etc...

"It is well thought out over time and becomes a "belief" that does not require an internal argument with oneself with further convincing data relative to Conservative ideas." - Russkyi


Fact: Aha, I see now that a problem lies in the blinding error which afflicts most Liberals and Socialists, and most certainly the one(s) in this and other threads, in their mistaken belief system that Conservatives necessarily must have a belief in angels, aliens and gods in order to be Conservatives. That is a laughable premise, truth be told. Conservatism has very little to do with religion except for mutual respect for everyone; and a deep and abiding loyalty to one's family and country; civil rights and freedoms for the individual.
Russkiycremepuff
1.7 / 5 (6) Apr 06, 2012
And that my little children is why a plurality of Conservatives believe in Angels, Aliens, God, and that cutting taxes increases tax revenues, but don't believe in Global Warming, Evolution, Ethics, etc...

"It is well thought out over time and becomes a "belief" that does not require an internal argument with oneself with further convincing data relative to Conservative ideas." - Russkyi


Fact: Cutting taxes on individuals leaves them with more spending money to buy goods and services, thus providing jobs indirectly to people who may be unemployed but who will be hired when business is good from money spent at those businesses by the individuals whose taxes have been cut. In turn, those businesses who hire more workers are indirectly providing more income tax revenue to government treasury to help pay for infrastructure, etc. As more jobs are provided for workers, their taxes are also cut, leaving them more money to spend on goods and services (plus living costs).
Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (40) Apr 06, 2012
Russki's responses would be less laughable if he was actually smart enough to know that the proper use of quotes is to bracket the thing being quoted.

idiot.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.8 / 5 (41) Apr 06, 2012
Fact: Tax money collected by the government does not vanish. It is spent to purchase goods and services, thus providing jobs indirectly for the people.

"Fact: Cutting taxes on individuals leaves them with more spending money to buy goods and services, thus providing jobs indirectly to people" - RusskieTard

Cutting taxes reduces government's ability to service national needs and resort to borrowing to service those needs.

The Reagan Administration for example boasted that "borrowing a trillion dollars plus" had been "the greatest thing we ever did."

When Democrats complained about the massive yearly deficits that the Reagan Administration was running. Conservatives countered that Reagan had "repealed the business cycle", and how the borrow and spend party must continue forever because the tax cuts that created the deficit were stimulating the economy.

The truth though was much different. It was the trillion plus of borrowed money that stimulated the U.S. economy, CONT...

Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
".....and that cutting taxes increases tax revenues, but don't believe in Global Warming, Evolution, Ethics, etc..."

Fact: Global warming could be true, certainly large parts of the Earth's land mass are already quite warm. Melting of ice may also be true if VISIBLE evidence is available and not just lines on a graph, after all, the Earth IS in an interglacial period which has been in a warming trend off and on for a long time. Anthropogenic global warming is a little more iffy, given that there are other causes for the warming, such as solar activity, geo and hydrothermal activity, large forest fires such as those in Texas recently caused by lightning, Earth's orbit and tilt, etc. The whole AGW thing might be more believable if it wasn't also tied to political and dictatorial motivation rather than just true science.

Fact: Evolution is undeniable even for organized religions. They will eventually incorporate it as part of church doctrine. Ethics is basic Conservatism 101.
Kinedryl
5 / 5 (3) Apr 06, 2012
IMO it has no meaning to discuss, whether is it better to be a conservative or liberal. Both approaches have their strengths and weakness, pros and cons.. The introductory stance should be therefore based on unbiased, well balanced attitude based on both approaches. Which doesn't sound too conservatively, I admit - it's essentially a pluralistic, i.e. the liberal stance.
Russkiycremepuff
1.4 / 5 (9) Apr 06, 2012
Russki's responses would be less laughable if he was actually smart enough to know that the proper use of quotes is to bracket the thing being quoted.

idiot.
- Vendicar

I am new to Physorg. It is astonishing to be called an idiot for not knowing where to place quotation marks or whatever in a comment. Is that your normal modus operandi? If so, you only prove yourself to be nothing more than a gibbering and drooling ape. You really need to get over yourself, Vendicar.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (40) Apr 06, 2012
cont... burdened the American people with massive debt service payments and habituated American business on borrowed money.

George Bush Sr. continued the Conservative Borrow and Spend party by borrowing trillions more, even though he called the failed Libertarian Economics that created the debt in the first place "Voodoo" economics.

It wasn't until Clinton came to office that Liberal economic polices came into place that began to curb the Borrow and Spend programs set by the previous 12 years of Republican misrule.

By the time Clinton left office, those Liberal economic policies had brought current U.S. government accounts into the black.

Bush Jr. entered the White House promising lower taxes, more borrowing and more debt, and he accomplished that in spades by reversing the progress made during the Clinton Pres by borrowing 6.5 trillion dollars over his terms in office. 10.5 trillion if the American war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan are included.

Borrow and spend = Republican.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.7 / 5 (40) Apr 06, 2012
"I am new to Physorg." - Russki

On the contrary, your are Spirochete with a new alias.

But even if you were new, your failure to close quotes remains.

Vendicar_Decarian
0.6 / 5 (39) Apr 06, 2012
Lying again I see, Spirochete.

"Anthropogenic global warming is a little more iffy, given that there are other causes for the warming, such as solar activity, geo and hydrothermal activity, large forest fires such as those in Texas recently caused by lightning," - RusskiTard

Solar activity is constantly monitored and total solar irradiance (solar output) has declined as the earth has warmed.

Hydrothermal activity is orders of magnitude too low to alter the surface temperature of the earth.

Forest fires are even orders of magnitude smaller in terms of the heat liberated, and actually produce a temporary cooling as the smoke blocks the influx of sunlight.

I have never encountered a Conservative who wasn't a perpetual and congenital liar.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.6 / 5 (39) Apr 06, 2012
Fact: Conservative Libertarian economists have for decades been arguing that the opportunity cost of saving resources is negative and therefore resources should be maximally exploited now to increase the standard of living for existing people rather than preserving the resource for future generations.

"Fact: Save for a rainy day is very much a Conservative value." - RusskiTard

"Drill baby Drill" was a mantra used by the Republican TeaTards in their effort to boost U.S. oil consumption. Reagan era, Bush Sr. Era, and Bush Jr. Era borrow and spend economic policies were also certainly not that of conserving either resources or money.

I therefore conclude that your claim is yet another lie on your part.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.6 / 5 (39) Apr 06, 2012
Except of course, Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Mexicans, Gays, Etc. Etc.. Etc...

Hate for these groups and others runs very deep in the Conservative Party.

"Conservatism has very little to do with religion except for mutual respect for everyone" - RuskieTard
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
"I am new to Physorg." - Russki

On the contrary, your are Spirochete with a new alias.

But even if you were new, your failure to close quotes remains.



Who is spiroshete and why are you calling me by that word?
CardacianNeverid
5 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
I am new to Physorg. It is astonishing to be called an idiot for not knowing where to place quotation marks or whatever in a comment. Is that your normal modus operandi? -RusskiTard

Why does every new sockpuppet you create 'act' dumb by explicitly saying things like "I'm new here...is so-and-so what passes for normal here"? Ritchie/Piroutte/Xbw you're as transparent as your Martian cattle, lol.

Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
How strange that Vendicar resorts to insulting epithets when he is obviously losing an argument. But I suppose that he needs that type of crutch to lean on when he cannot make a proper and valid retort to my facts that I have presented here.

I see that Vendicar also resorts to past presidents who were, in truth, not entirely Conservative politically, such as Reagan. The next thing I think he will do at some point, is to invoke the name of another past president who could hardly be called a Conservative, not in a million years.

True Conservatism has never been tried in the United States or in Europe. That is why it is so foreign and indigestible to Vendicar. I fear that Vendicar will fritter his life away on things of no great consequence, and will be nothing more than a drooling goon for the rest of his life, steeped in Liberal and Socialist doctrine, to the exclusion of all common sense and logic. I will ask my religious friends to pray for Vendicar's soul.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.6 / 5 (39) Apr 06, 2012
The posting pattern is the same, the stupidity is the same, the whining is the same. Spirochete in a dress it is.

"How strange that Vendicar resorts to insulting epithets when he is obviously losing an argument." - RusskiTard formerly Spirochete

"I see that Vendicar also resorts to past presidents who were, in truth, not entirely Conservative politically, such as Reagan." - RusskieTard

So Ronald Reagan wasn't a Conservative? Bush Sr. Wasn't a Conservative and Bush Jr. Wasn't a Conservative either.

I take such comments from Spirochete as substantial proof that Conservatives do not live in a reality based community, but in a fictional land created by their own brain dead imaginations.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
IMO it has no meaning to discuss, whether is it better to be a conservative or liberal. Both approaches have their strengths and weakness, pros and cons.. The introductory stance should be therefore based on unbiased, well balanced attitude based on both approaches. Which doesn't sound too conservatively, I admit - it's essentially a pluralistic, i.e. the liberal stance. - Kinedryl


@Kinedryl. I have lived most of my life in the Soviet Union and was steeped in the Communist ideology. Though I love my country and my people, I am happy to be living in the United States. I have seen many bad things happen to my people because of Communism and I think that it might come here no matter how hard Conservatives fight to prevent it. This is sad to see what is happening and to see such terrible attitudes. I wonder now if there is any place on Earth where there are no hateful people like Vendicar.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.5 / 5 (39) Apr 06, 2012
Where "True Conservatism" is defined as Blah, Blah, Blah. from some Kook Tard new-speak dictionary.

"True Conservatism has never been tried in the United States or in Europe" - RuskieTard

Idiot.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (4) Apr 06, 2012
Where "True Conservatism" is defined as Blah, Blah, Blah. from some Kook Tard new-speak dictionary.

"True Conservatism has never been tried in the United States or in Europe" - RuskieTard

Idiot.


Yes Vendicar. You are obviously an idiot and a drooling goon. That is a very appropriate signature and fits you well. I have spoken to many people on Physorg and they all have said, without exception, that you are stupid and crazy and that you hate the American system and the American people. It is no wonder that you have such insane ideas. I pity you.
Kinedryl
not rated yet Apr 06, 2012
IMO it's just the Vendicar, who is using the unacceptable rude vocabulary of hard-core conservatives here, not to say about rigid schematic way of thinking, typical for conservatives. IMO it fits my insight, every extreme opinion is indistinguishable from its dual counterpart. The transverse ripples are getting longitudinal at distance, pathological skepticism gets religious, Hitler used similar methods like the Stalin etc... I'm not friend of rigid, conservative stances based on blind labelling - but this is exactly what the confused Vendicar exhibits here. The true liberal would be a much more conciliatory in his opinions.
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
unacceptable rude vocabulary

You don't spend much time around conservatives.
Compare the civility of tea party gatherings to those of the 'occupiers'.

Its quite obvious the 'liberal'/socialists here don't understand money and wealth. In order for the govt to have money to plunder, wealth must be created to represent that money. Gov't creates no wealth. At its best, govt enables individuals to create wealth. Govt creates no wealth.
CardacianNeverid
5 / 5 (4) Apr 06, 2012
I have lived most of my life in the Soviet Union and was steeped in the Communist ideology -RusskiTard

Is that before or after you were a NamVet (666), Mr Ritchie?

I have spoken to many people on Physorg and they all have said, without exception, that you are stupid and crazy -RusskiTard

Oh my...just how frigging thick are you? In an intellectual thrust and parry, you sir are unarmed!
Kinedryl
4.6 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
At its best, govt enables individuals to create wealth. Govt creates no wealth.
But when just the government enables the individuals to create the wealth, then certain level of centralistic government is necessary anyway. The perspective of individuals is always limited with their private interests, they cannot maintain the public affairs and strategic long-term decisions. I do agree, that the contemporary politicians rely excessively on their principal necessity (after all, in similar way like the scientists and other overgrown communities payed from mandatory fees) - but the blind fight against them just helps to strengthen their position. We should build and adopt some philosophy, which would enable us to optimize the balance of conservative and liberal stances and the centralist and individualistic ways of public administration. The convergence to extreme stance will not help anybody here, because it's predestined for failure by its very nature.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
the blind fight

Govt has the POWER.
All their victims can do is fight to keep that power within Constitutional limits.
Why are the 'liberals'/'progressives' opposed to following the letter and the intent of the Constitution?
Conservatives SUPPORT following the letter and intent of the Constitution and therefore DO support a limited govt.
Any blind fighting is done by the socialists who chafe at the limits of the Constitution.
Kinedryl
3 / 5 (2) Apr 06, 2012
What I'm missing with contemporary generation of people is the lack of widespread awareness of the necessity of balanced unbiased stance. The people are just trying to delimit itself and they're getting polarized all the time. If we would accept, that the balanced stance is the categorical imperative, then the 90% of the discussion in this thread will become redundant immediately.

The contemporary educational system forces the people in this schematic polarized way of thinking. The people know about the ways, which work well under many circumstances, but they have no idea, how to connect them. We have just two theories of physics, but nothing inbetween. The polarization of relationship between liberals and conservatives is just a consequence of this conceptual helplessness. The dense aether model is one of ways, how to reconcile the extreme stances.
Code_Warrior
1 / 5 (1) Apr 06, 2012
But when just the government enables the individuals to create the wealth, then certain level of centralistic government is necessary anyway. The perspective of individuals is always limited with their private interests, they cannot maintain the public affairs and strategic long-term decisions.

Exactly.
Kinedryl
1 / 5 (1) Apr 06, 2012
For example, the quantum mechanics is apparently based on liberal approach. It considers the density fluctuations of vacuum as an individual particles and it deals with their collectivist interactions only. The extreme liberals, if not hippies even helped to develop one important branch of quantum mechanics. http://www.npr.or...m-theory

The general relativity is based on apparently conservative approach: it describes the space-time curvature schematically, it doesn't bother with multiparticle phenomena. The same perspective we can get at the water surface. At the certain distance from observer the spreading of surface ripples is nearly independent to the underwater, they're spreading in similar way like the light waves in vacuum without reference frame as so-called the capillary waves. Everything has its simple, rigid rules here.
Kinedryl
1 / 5 (1) Apr 06, 2012
At the opposite side of dimensional scale the spreading of surface ripples is heavily influenced with Brownian noise of underwater. Every information which gets to observer is blurred during its travel in such a way, only statistical, indeterministic approach is applicable here. There are no other strict rules. But as we can see, it's still the very same water surface, just being observed at different dimensional scale.

Therefore even the stances of conservatives and liberals could be reconciled in similar way - it's just the matter of the dimensional/temporal scale, in which we are judging them. Many liberal opinions will become suddenly conservative from long term perspective and vice-versa: even the conservatives can get progressive at times. It's just the conservatives, who call the existing status quo in cosmology or evolutionary theory into question. Surprisingly, just the elderly scientists are becoming more progressive today, they even collected more Nobel prizes.
Kinedryl
1 / 5 (1) Apr 06, 2012
The people are naturally competitive, so that the free-market seems to be the natural environment for them. We can compare the free market to the flat environment, formed with water surface, i.e. phase gradient. This environment will be the more flat and superfluous, the more dense the fluid will be. Which brings the paradox into laisses-faire paradigm: because the people are cheaters by their very nature, the maintenance of free market requires very strong central government, which will guard its rules. And the more effective the free market can be, the more constrains and rules it actually requires. In this way the day of tax freedom will converge to the middle of year - actually the more, the more superfluous and effective economy we will get. Simply because the communistic idea, that the people will work for free just for their pleasure is the same idealistic utopia, like the belief of randists, that the people will do their business honestly without cheating and supervising.
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
they cannot maintain the public affairs and strategic long-term decisions.

Who can?
Certainly not 'liberal' politicians whose ONLY goal it to stay in power and control others.
Free markets only need govt to protect private property rights. Competition and consumers will do the rest.
But 'liberals' can't trust individuals to do what is in their interest.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C. S. Lewis"
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2012
"Political freedom means the absence of coercion of a man by his fellow men. The fundamental threat to freedom is power to coerce, be it in the hands of a monarch, a dictator, an oligarchy, or a momentary majority. The preservation of freedom requires the elimination of such concentration of power to the fullest possible extent and the dispersal and distribution of whatever power cannot be eliminated." - Milton Friedman
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (4) Apr 06, 2012
"Our economy is being controlled by the banks and the 1% right now"
http://rebuildthe...lash-v3/

So a 'liberal' Obama operative expects to sign up useful idiots for their cause.
The economy is controlled by ....'liberals' with its regulations and socialist Federal Reserve policies. The banks are controlled by ... the govt.
So how many thinking 'liberals' believe a 'former' Obama czar is serious about anything but more power?
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (37) Apr 06, 2012
Tea Party Violence: Teabagger Tries To Kill Man With Obama Bumper Sticker

http://www.youtub...dwTQ4xA8

"Compare the civility of tea party gatherings to those of the 'occupiers'." - RyggTard

Tea Party Paranoia in Cleveland

http://www.youtub...e=relmfu
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (37) Apr 06, 2012
Rachel Maddow Explores Right Wing Lying Echo Chamber

http://www.youtub...=related

"Our economy is being controlled by the banks and the 1% right now" - RyggTard

The Rachel Maddow Show: Insani-Tea: Conservatives Rally Around "Teabagging"

http://www.youtub...=related
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (37) Apr 06, 2012
But real freedom means controlling Corporations so that they act in the interest of society as a whole rather than the interest of the Corporations themselves.

"Political freedom means the absence of coercion of a man by his fellow men." - RyggTard

Rachel Maddow is a lesbian vampire.

http://www.youtub...=related
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (37) Apr 06, 2012
As long as Government is of the people, and for the people, and by the people, then the people have the power.

"Govt has the POWER." - RyggTard

But the Libertarian view, government is of corporations, by corporations and for corporations.

And that ideology has been what has destroyed the American state.

http://www.youtub...fmLRJxzY
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (37) Apr 06, 2012
Why Republicans oppose government funding for scientific and medical research.

http://www.youtub...=related

kaasinees
1 / 5 (1) Apr 06, 2012
NotParker
1.7 / 5 (6) Apr 06, 2012
Stupid "researchers" asking drunken patrons questions and taking their answer seriously.

The epitome of left wing stupidity.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (37) Apr 06, 2012
Drunk or just Republican... It is hard to tell the difference.

"Stupid "researchers" asking drunken patrons questions and taking their answer seriously." - Parker Tard
Skultch
4 / 5 (4) Apr 06, 2012
A communist and a social darwinist walk into a bar,

their equal and opposite charges attract and they annihilate each other,

Scientists survey the witnesses; nobody cares.
kaasinees
1 / 5 (1) Apr 06, 2012
NotParker
1 / 5 (4) Apr 06, 2012
Stupid "researchers" asking drunken patrons questions and taking their answer seriously.

The epitome of left wing stupidity.


VD is the type of person who would take this stupidity seriously, since he is dumber than the conmen who thought up this idiocy. But not by much.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (37) Apr 06, 2012
I never take seriously the mindless prattle that comes from Conservatives as it comes from low power thinking.

"VD is the type of person who would take this stupidity seriously"- ParkerTard
NotParker
1.7 / 5 (6) Apr 06, 2012
VD, the rule is simple. You are a moron if you pay attention to idiots who interview drunks coming out of bars.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (37) Apr 06, 2012
Now you know why we all laugh at you and ignore your mindless denialist prattle.

"VD, the rule is simple. You are a moron if you pay attention to idiots who interview drunks coming out of bars." - ParkerTard
Tennex
3 / 5 (2) Apr 07, 2012
The American society get socialized, which is the consequence of the undergoing financial crisis. It follows from dense aether model - when the homogeneous society in in low energy state, it condenses into droplets, which compete mutually and the social differences tend to increase, because what the larger droplets are doing is, they tend to grow into account of weaker and smaller ones. It brings the risk of social revolution, when the large droplets get merge into continuous phase, separated from the poor rest of system. The natural tendency of governement is to eliminate this social crisis with artificial draining of energy and mass of large droplets (their private property) and disperse it into environment. If Americans would adopt the cold fusion in time, they could remain rich and independent to external oil sources, the import of which is exhausting their economy. But how to achieve this, if the most powerful and influential people are just those, who are doing business with oil?
Tennex
2.7 / 5 (3) Apr 07, 2012
The hidden cost of fossil fuels is much higher, if we account to the cost of fossil fuel wars, the necessity of arms race and the destruction of life environment - both direct (Exxon, Deep Horizon spills), both indirect (the acidification of oceans and destruction of fishing due the extinction of plankton). These consequences are coming with their cost, but because they cannot be expressed in real prices easily, the monetary free-market society cannot account into them. Therefore another mechanisms, not so democratic and liberal must do it. The true is, because the free-market society always operates in actual prices only, it cannot account into long term connections, so it tends to be principally unstable and suffers with periodical crisis. The socialistic government suffers with excessive energy dissipation instead. Both these approaches must be balanced in rather qualified way. How?
Tennex
1 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2012
For example, with specialization, we should define their spheres of influence. The liberal monetary politics shouldn't bother with long term strategical decisions, because it has no reliable mechanisms, how to account into them. The centralist socialistic government shouldn't bother with local economy at the communal level, because the governmental officers cannot account into all its subtleties in real time. Just because they're so slow and separated from reality at the communal level, they shouldn't judge it, control the less. And the free-market community of businessmen shouldn't deal with strategical decisions - just because it's so impatient and frightened of every change of stock prices.
MarkyMark
not rated yet Apr 07, 2012
Well at least this annolog of yours makes more sence than there being sand worms on Mars huh?

Also The Aether/Cold fusion theorys you spam are pure drivel just like the transparent Martians you also believe in.
Tennex
1 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2012
IMO these connections are all very trivial, but they're evading the attention of both layman society, bot the attention of economical experts just because of it - after all, in the similar way, like the whole dense aether model itself. For example, the economists are spending huge money into research of periodic economical crisis, they're piling various formal models, involving the volatility of stock prices and/or fiscal politics of government - but nobody says clearly, the free-market economy can be never stable, until it remains "free", i.e. operating with current prices only. It's not only because such understanding is too trivial and general for highlyspecialized and qualified financial experts, but because the economical science of the Western civilization is biased. The free market is something like the God, the existence of which cannot be impeached in any way, no matter how remote. It's analogy of Lorentz symmetry paradigm of contemporary physics.
Tennex
1 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2012
Also The Aether/Cold fusion theorys you spam are pure drivel just like the transparent Martians you also believe in.
This is just ad-ridicule fallacy, because I simply DO NOT believe in sand worms and transparent Martians. I actually don't believe in anything, which I cannot explain in sequence of logical steps. The aether model cannot be spam, until it relies to well established physical laws, like the conservation of energy and wave mechanics of particle systems. The people have trouble to understand, even the human society is physical system, which follows the physical laws - it gets more dense, if you put the energy into it (Gold rush), it changes into totalitarian boson condensate when it becomes too cold and poor of energy, and so on. The people are intelligent creatures of complex individual behaviour, but because their motivations compensate mutually at large scales ("what is good for you isn't good for me"), whole their intelligence fades at large scale.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (3) Apr 07, 2012
The web site is now phys.org.
Does this mean phys.org is not for profit?
And does this mean they don't need to encourage their socialist fellow travelers to demonstrate illiberalism with their hundreds of intolerant posts?
Tennex
2 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2012
This is interesting question, because I do consider PO site rather liberal just because of the low level of censorship. This is actually what the liberalism means: the allowance of various opinions - even at the case, when these opinions are apparently illiberal. But frankly, I don't care about labelling too much - for me only the optimization of society is interesting. Both excessive liberalism, both conservatism has its apparent weakness, so just the presentation of both extremes could help the people to navigate itself in this plurality. The forced liberalism isn't liberalism at all.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (3) Apr 07, 2012
for me only the optimization of society is interesting.

How is society 'optimized' and define optimization.

The forced liberalism isn't liberalism at all.

But that is what socialists do and they call themselves 'liberal'.
FDR switched from defining democrats as 'progressive' to calling themselves 'liberal'. How 'liberal' were FDRs coercive policies?
Tennex
1 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2012
How is society 'optimized' and define optimization.
This is another interesting question from man, who believes, the illiberality is harmless. Apparently, the liberal society is optimal for you, after then - or not?
How 'liberal' were FDRs coercive policies?
And how 'liberal' can be the liberal, who calls for greater censorship? These are just the questions, which do require some geometric model to find their solution. I.e. to recognize, when and where some effort becomes counterproductive - no matter, which nature such effort actually is. And the dense aether model just points in this direction. We can demonstrate it for example with geometry of gravity field in vacuum which is not homogeneous (as the general relativity considers), but random particle stuff (as AWT considers). In general relativity the potential of gravity field would be the curve, the derivation of which will be always positive. It allows no exception from this character, until it reaches the sigularity
Tennex
1 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2012
Briefly speaking, for schematically thinking liberal (or conservative, it doesn't matter here) his opinion will be always correct and "positive", no matter in which depth he will extrapolate it. Such schematically thinking person can end in the conceptual singularity, being separated from neighbouring reality with event horizon in similar way, like the relativistic model of the light spreading in curved space-time. The more realistic model will account to the fact, we are living in gradient driven reality. The random or completely flat systems don't exist, only the phenomena and artefacts formed with gradients are real for us. Therefore every extreme stance creates such a gradient around itself, this gradient forms a new layer of reality, which has its weight too. In physics this gradient is called the dark matter and it exhibits the antigravity behavior, as it prohibits the fall of the material objects into singularity. Therefore every extreme opinion should be balanced from outside.
Tennex
1 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2012
For example the problem of Hitler was, his stance was apparently freaky, but not freaky enough for finding of sufficient number of supporters. In this extremists environment his extreme opinions were suddenly considered only mildly radical. So he deepen them and he attracted another portion of sympathisers with it, until the Nazi movements separated from the rest of society. It wasn't able to exchange any rational arguments anymore from outside - it changed into dense star filled with superfluid boson condensate, in which every idea and opinion of the Big Leader propagated without friction and dispersion inside of community. Whereas the rest of Germal society had remained separated from it with event horizon with heavy censorship. For example, most of Germans of Hitler era had no idea, that Hitler get some women friend, children the less.

Do you see the physical analogy here? It's the mechanism of formation of every feedback lacking sectarian community, not just Nazis.
ryggesogn2
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 07, 2012
his extreme opinions were suddenly considered only mildly radical.

Because the Germans were already socialists and had a superiority complex.
Tennex
1 / 5 (2) Apr 07, 2012
Because the Germans were already socialists and had a superiority complex.
Well, and this is the point. Even mild bias in opinion could become harmful, if not destructive for the rest of society, if it's occupied with many people at the same moment. For example, even the mild negativism against cold fusion or aether concept may lead to the dismissal of these concepts with mainstream, if its supported with all members of it. In this sense your fear of illiberality may appear justified, until its not followed with call for censorship. Because if every member of society will admit such a censorship, he will deserve it - and he will get it at the very end. These phenomena are of emergent nature: even subtle bias, like the density gradient of dark matter may suddenly lead into formation of black holes from nowhere, because of its additive nature. When all people in the crowd will do just a tiny little step against the wall, the people near the wall will get crushed with no mercy.
ryggesogn2
2.7 / 5 (7) Apr 07, 2012
Even mild bias in opinion could become harmful, if not destructive for the rest of society,

Then all opinions must be crushed!
Tennex
3.5 / 5 (2) Apr 07, 2012
This is destructive approach, I'd recommend to learn the people the balanced thinking and how the biased opinions form and propagate. The problem is, the people are behaving like the famous slowly boiled frog - they don't realize, their opinion is biased already. But what they can recognize easily is, they don't provide any other alternative for it. We have so many examples from history, so we could teach it by examples. So, at the moment when you promote the censorship at PO for the sake of liberality, you should be urged for some viable alternative solution at the same moment.

Before some time I proposed the decentralized personalized censorship: you could remove the posts of all uncomfortable posters with your private settings - but these posts will be still visible for the other people. But you could import the blacklists from the profile of other people, if you will decide, that their opinions are close to your ones.
Zack_Tribianni
1 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2012
Study: Justifying a snake-oil salesman takes lot more mental gymnastics than not justifying him.
NotParker
2.3 / 5 (6) Apr 07, 2012
Now you know why we all laugh at you and ignore your mindless denialist prattle.


VD ... so thick he thinks interviewing drunks coming out of bars is science. Although I must admit that drunken idiots in bars are still way smarter than VD and his STD's.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.3 / 5 (36) Apr 07, 2012
Drunk. Conservative. It's all pertty much the same nonsense.
NotParker
2 / 5 (8) Apr 07, 2012
Drunk. Conservative. It's all pertty much the same nonsense.


I love this study. It proves three things so perectly.

1) Left wing idiots are huge con men for proposing the study.

2) Left wing idiots are willing to fund bad "science",

3) Left wing idiots actual took the reults seriously.

Talk about ruining the reputation of science and scientists.

Wow.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.4 / 5 (38) Apr 07, 2012
Translation: The Conservative LowTard doesn't like the results.

1) Left wing idiots are huge con men for proposing the study.

Translation: The Conservative LowTard can't stand reality.

2) Left wing idiots are willing to fund bad "science",

Translation: The Conservative Lowtard wishes to destroy the science that illustrate is intellectual inferiority.

3) Left wing idiots actual took the reults seriously.

ParekerTard is a microcosm of everything that is wrong with America.
crass
1 / 5 (2) Apr 08, 2012
Its exactly what I have come to believe through observation. The right use little thinking when devices theories and policies. Whatever way that has the least amount of thought is more likely the correct way.
Tennex
not rated yet Apr 08, 2012
This "discussion" just demonstrates one of the reasons, for which the people are maintaining the religion and/or membership of sport clubs so obstinately. It helps the people to delimit itself. Both groups here are using the same vocabulary, they just attacking mutually in similar way, like the people from poor countries like Albania or Somalia. These people are living absolutely the same lives, they do share the very same life perspectives - just one half are Muslims, the other half are Christians. The religion is the only factor, which keeps them different and enables their mutual fight. Because this fight is the original reason of religion, not the religion. Religion is an evasion, a catalyst of social fight. If these people would be rich and satisfied, they wouldn't care about their mutual religions at all.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.3 / 5 (36) Apr 08, 2012
"Then all opinions must be crushed!" - RyggTard

Like most Conservatives, RyggTard thinks that reality is decided by opinion rather that reality being manifest in nature.

E=mc**2 is just an "opinion". CO2 absorbing IR is just an "opinion". The 13.5 billion year age of he universe is just an "opinion". Cutting taxes increases government debt is just an "opinion" to these people.

They do not exist in the reality based community.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.1 / 5 (35) Apr 08, 2012
"Study: Justifying a snake-oil salesman takes lot more mental gymnastics than not justifying him." - Zack

Translation: Reality = snake oil.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (3) Apr 08, 2012
Its exactly what I have come to believe through observation. The right use little thinking when devices theories and policies. Whatever way that has the least amount of thought is more likely the correct way.

Occam's Razor:
"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."
Tennex
1 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2012
CO2 absorbing IR is just an "opinion". The 13.5 billion year age of he universe is just an "opinion".
Absorbtion of IR with CO2 rich atmosphere is not so straightforward. Every absorbing body does the radiation too: just the strongly absorbing atmosphere (i.e. the dark one for infrared radiation) should cool itself fast with its radiation. In general, I do really believe, that the increased concentration of CO2 leads to the warming of atmosphere, but this simple thought illustrates, the one apparent fact may not imply the another ones so clearly, as it seems at the first look. You should do rather complex math to decide it.

The interpretation of red shift as an expansion of space-time and the finite age of Universe may be misleading even more. For example, I tend to explain it with dispersion of light waves by density fluctuations of vacuum rather than with metric expansion of space-time. In this model the Universe was indeed not created, but it's not of finite age anyway.
Tennex
1 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2012
In general, the interpretation of CO2 absorbtion or red shift with libertarianism or conservatism is solely artificial and dependent on actual political situation, because these questions are completely technical problem free of any political connotations..

For example, at the beginning of Big Bang theory, just the conservative religious circles were the supporters of it. The Marxists believed in eternal universe and they censored BBT. The free thinking people like the Fred Hoyle would be considered libertarians by now, but just these people were the loudest opponents of Big Bang theory. They called it a Christian pseudoscience, because it was introduced with Christian priest Lamaitre. In this context may be significant, that the same Hoyle opposed the evolution loudly, so he would be called a conservative for it by now. It just indicates, a certain inversion of society happened before some time, because the original conservative stances are called liberal and vice-versa.
RazorsEdge
5 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2012
The study itself is biased as to the distinction between conservative and liberal. From the paper cited (too few examples provided): you're conservative if you agree "A first consideration of any society is the protection of property rights."

Energy to think? The simple answer is it takes more energy to lie.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.1 / 5 (35) Apr 08, 2012
Perhaps this explains why Ann Colter is anorexic.

"Energy to think? The simple answer is it takes more energy to lie." - RazorTard
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2012
The study itself is biased as to the distinction between conservative and liberal. From the paper cited (too few examples provided): you're conservative if you agree "A first consideration of any society is the protection of property rights."

Energy to think? The simple answer is it takes more energy to lie.


Liberal is then defined as being opposed to "personal responsibility, acceptance of hierarchy {such as rule of law}, and a
preference for the status quo." {No conservative accepts the status quo under the current regime.}
"Because alcohol limits cognitive
capacity and disrupts controlled responding, while leaving
automatic thinking largely intact"
http://psp.sagepu...full.pdf html
Alcohol also hinders the ability to lie. The study should be repeated with a truth drug.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.1 / 5 (35) Apr 08, 2012
Here is another fine example of ape like Conservative thought...

"Liberal is then defined as being opposed to "personal responsibility, acceptance of hierarchy {such as rule of law}, and a preference for the status quo." - RyggTard

RyggTard has on multiple occasions whined about all them stinking, evil, liberals taking part in those 60's hippy protests, and the current "occupy" movement. And now his low power brain whines about the exact opposite.

His inclusion of acceptance of the "status quo" is equally odd since it has in modern history been the Liberal that has advanced the rights of blacks, and minorities, and women, in the face of Conservative demands that the inequitable "status quo" be maintained.

On the other hand, modern Conservative animals are regularly heard jabbering about returning to the good oll days, when the constitution blah, blah, blah.

Of course these are days that never really existed. Days that exist only in the polluted neocon faith they call history.
Vendicar_Decarian
not rated yet Apr 08, 2012
Something that as we all have seen, RyggTard, and his lying Conservative brothers are well practiced at.

"Alcohol also hinders the ability to lie." - RyggTard

Personally, I abstain from alcohol, but running moonshine and poisoning their "customers" is a long time Libertarian fixation.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2012
The study itself is biased as to the distinction between conservative and liberal. From the paper cited (too few examples provided): you're conservative if you agree "A first consideration of any society is the protection of property rights."

Energy to think? The simple answer is it takes more energy to lie.


In my country, the Communist Party was conservative while the dissidents were liberals. In the West it is just the opposite. The Party is still alive and well, but not so much power now. Our President, I believe, will bring back the old system a little at a time, but will style it more on the Chinese system of Capitalism controlled by Communists. It is not exactly a free market system in China, but the Chinese people have always been good at buying and selling. They are now manufacturing with the help of the western countries.
My country needs that wealth, so it is almost a foregone conclusion that it will happen.
Vendicar_Decarian
not rated yet Apr 08, 2012
Liberal theory predicts that when Conservatives borrow and spend, the deficit increases.

"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better." - RyggTard

Conservatives demand that when the borrow and spend government income increases and they therefore the federal debt goes down.

Which theory has predicted reality better?

"Borrowing a trillion dollars plus is the greatest thing we ever did." - Budget Adviser to Ronald Reagan.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2012
We have never known what it is ike to own personal property such as real estate. Only the wealthy could afford such things. I and my parents were not peasants so we were encouraged to become members of the Party. Young people became the young pioneers and had to attend the meetings. We also had to put in time working on the farms, that was something I hated. LOL
I think that these are things that Vendicar would like to happen in America and Canada. I grew up with all of it, but I was happy that my father worked for the Embassy in United States so that I could learn American English. I majored in English and literature at University.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2012
Liberal theory predicts that when Conservatives borrow and spend, the deficit increases.

"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better." - RyggTard

Conservatives demand that when the borrow and spend government income increases and they therefore the federal debt goes down.

Which theory has predicted reality better?

"Borrowing a trillion dollars plus is the greatest thing we ever did." - Budget Adviser to Ronald Reagan.


Who is the U.S. president now? I would like confirmation that it is Barack Obama, not Ronald Reagan. Unless he has risen from the ground?
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
In the Soviet Union, both Vendicar and Ryggesogn would have been arrested and sent to Siberia after a quick trial, if they even got a trial. No dissent allowed. Just follow the Party rules.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
In my first year in America, I was impressed with all the food in the supermarkets. We did not know such things at home. My mother almost fell over in a faint when our friends took us to go shopping.
Such amazing things we saw. I wondered why we did not have such greatness at home and why Americans had so much. I wrote to my friends and they could not wait to come to see it for themselves. Even countries such as Sweden and Finland was not like that.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
"Soviet psychiatric hospitals were used by the authorities as prisons in order to isolate hundreds or thousands of political prisoners from the rest of society, discredit their ideas, and break them physically and mentally."
http://en.wikiped...et_Union
Vendicar_Decarian
not rated yet Apr 09, 2012
The funny thing about Siberia, is that at no time were there as many people in the Russian "Gulag", as America has living in prisons today.

RyggTard's ideology holds that the millions of criminals in America's prison system are largely there because the law made them criminals against their will.

I on the other hand recognize that their criminality is a result of the willful violation of the law. Largely anti-drug laws and three strike laws, created by Conservative lawmakers.

Conservatives believe they can break the will of the American people through tough laws. Liberals believe that these tough laws are ineffective against most crimes, and that education is generally a better way to spend the effort and money needed to solve the criminal social problem.

"In the Soviet Union, both Vendicar and Ryggesogn would have been arrested and sent to Siberia after a quick trial, if they even got a trial." - Russki
Russkiycremepuff
2 / 5 (4) Apr 09, 2012
I read the news about President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and how he may be a dying man. When I got to the part where he was praying to God to save his life, I began to laugh. It was so funny. A Communist praying to God. I go to the Russian Orthodox church here, but I still remember the ways of Communism. It will be interesting to see what happens when the American President does everything that the American Communist Party wants him to do. Very interesting indeed.
Vendicar_Decarian
not rated yet Apr 09, 2012
As a pastafarian, it is clear that God will ignore Chavez just as God ignores the prayers of everyone else.

After all, God is dead.
Parsec
5 / 5 (3) Apr 09, 2012
@ryggesogn2 -
"US higher education often looks like a clear case of the inmates running the asylum. That is, the students who were radicalized in
....

You really don't sound like someone who has actually EVER stepped onto a college campus or taken a college course. Colleges are very expensive and most kids who are there work their butts off studying. You might have a small point about in Poly Sci departments, but that represents a small percentage of what people study.

You seem completely ignorant of what you are trying to pontificate about.
Russkiycremepuff
2 / 5 (4) Apr 09, 2012
"Conservatives believe they can break the will of the American people through tough laws. Liberals believe that these tough laws are ineffective against most crimes, and that education is a better way to spend the effort and money needed to solve the criminal social problem." - Vendicar

In my country very few people have what you call a 'will', and our laws are very, very tough. There is no such thing as tough laws being ineffective. You will do what you are told or you will go to jail or a mental institution. You will subsist on bread and water, if need be. In your country, your people are soft like mush. They want everything handed to them in that silver platter. If they were in my country, they would not last a day with all that whining and crying, and they would all have to work, even cleaning toilets for a living. Nobody sits around. Everyone must work.
Russkiycremepuff
2 / 5 (4) Apr 09, 2012
"The funny thing about Siberia, is that at no time were there as many people in the Russian "Gulag", as America has living in prisons today." - Vendicar

Vendicar, you are either unaware or you do not understand that a good majority of those who were sent to Siberia did not come back alive. They died there from many causes, including a firing squad. When was the last time that your prisoners were put before a firing squad or starved to death, or froze? Your prisons are like 5 star hotels compared to the Siberian prison camps.

Education: everyone is educated in my country. According to your talents, skills, ability to learn and willingness to pay back for the money spent on your education, you can go to post graduate, or stay only the equivalent of high school. But everyone must go to school. No dropouts that I know of.
Vendicar_Decarian
0 / 5 (35) Apr 09, 2012
All Randites suffer from the same mental illness, especially their welfare hating, for everyone but herself, queen Ayn Rand.

"You seem completely ignorant of what you are trying to pontificate about." - Parsec
Vendicar_Decarian
0.3 / 5 (36) Apr 09, 2012
The same is true for American Prisons.

"Vendicar, you are either unaware or you do not understand that a good majority of those who were sent to Siberia did not come back alive." - Russkie

They had the advantage of not being anally buggered by their cellmate named Bubba.

"When was the last time that your prisoners were put before a firing squad" - Ruskie

Capital punishment was quite Common in the American Gulag system before Liberals greatly curtailed the practice.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
As a pastafarian, it is clear that God will ignore Chavez just as God ignores the prayers of everyone else.

After all, God is dead.
- Vendicar

I am curious. Were you invited to the funeral of God? Where is your evidence for it? If he never existed, then how could he have died? I am not very religious, but I find it to be disingenuous if you cannot provide the proof of the death. Where is the death certificate? Where is he buried?
I do not understand such conviction on the death of an individual who is said to be a figement of imagination.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.1 / 5 (35) Apr 09, 2012
I am no longer an American, Comrad.

"In your country, your people are soft like mush. They want everything handed to them in that silver platter." - Ruskie

"Nobody sits around. Everyone must work." - Ruskie

Excellent. Something else I agree with.

Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
"Capital punishment was quite Common in the American Gulag system before Liberals greatly curtailed the practice." - Vendicar

Yes, I have noticed that your prisons are overcrowded and murderers have to wait many years and appeal their death sentences many times over before they are finally put out of their misery.
But isn't that cruel and inhumane punishment? In my country a death sentence is a death sentence. We do not stone them or cut off their heads as in Moslem countries. But a criminal is quite effectively put to death and that is a good justice system.
Russkiycremepuff
1.5 / 5 (4) Apr 09, 2012
"I am no longer an American, Comrad." = Vendicar

Then what are you? Are you a man without a country? What made you turn away from a country with supermarket shelfs full of food and you are allowed dissent and even public disturbance with a permit? In my country, if you said that you are no longer a Russian, or no longer a Communist, you would find yourself in the Gulag, back in the old days.
Russkiycremepuff
2 / 5 (4) Apr 09, 2012
Vendicar, have you joined the American Communist Party yet? It is imperative to be a member if you wish to partake of all that is available to you.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
It is late and I have an early appointment at the Embassy. Goodnight to all.
Vendicar_Decarian
0.1 / 5 (36) Apr 09, 2012
As I said, I am no longer an American.

"Vendicar, have you joined the American Communist Party yet?" - Russkie

"What made you turn away from a country with supermarket shelfs full of food and you are allowed dissent and even public disturbance with a permit?" - Ruskie

It became clear that America was an immoral nation with a culture that had no future.

"Then what are you?" - Ruskie

A logical man.

"But a criminal is quite effectively put to death and that is a good justice system." - Ruskie

American Conservatives would strongly agree with you.

CardacianNeverid
5 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2012
In my first year in America, I was impressed with all the food in the supermarkets -RusskiPirouette

I thought you were a Sicilian. You declared so in your previous incarnation. Who can forget such delightful banter as -

You realize that my brother friends could bring down some my difficult mouthwash on your a**... Then all I did was invite him/her and her bros and friends to come meet my fam from Sicily... Whassamatta, Howhot$hit? You no lika da Siciliano family? Dat makes you a racist pig bigot, don't it?...

Howhot$hit always be talking now about da Mothership. But my family coming over from Sicily and we gonna find FrankHerb$hit and his butt-buddy Howhot$hit addresses and gonna party wif dem until the cows come home. Yeah my brudder Angelo gots a friend, a computer geek who has friends everywhere who can find dem addresses and we go have us a party wif Frank and dat Howhot$hit fella. -RusskiSicilianPirouette
Russkiycremepuff
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 09, 2012
Firstly, I must apologise to Vendicar_Decarian for mistakenly assuming that he is also using the user name CardacianNeverid as his alter ego or sockpuppet, simply because the second name is an anagram of the first. Most people on Phys.org believed this to be so, but it has come to my attention through PMs from several people that CardacianNeverid may be another of FrankHerbert's sockpuppets.
This makes good sense from having read so many of Cardacian's posts in this and other threads, that it cannot possibly be Vendicar_Decarian due to the glaring differences in speech and the lack of the Tard suffix given to names. Another thing is that Vendicar seems to be infinitely more intelligent and well informed than the FrankHerbert sockpuppets and is not given to hystrionics.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
Secondly, I have been reading the threads and comments here for the past two years before registering and I believe that I am beginning to understand Americans and non-Americans quite well as regarding the famous call for diversity and culture. I am also understanding Black Americans and, for the most part, their hatred of Whites, as in this video.

http://www.breitb...f-Action

Please listen closely.

Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
Incidentally, while in another thread, I had read what RitchieGuy believes regarding the Big Bang. He had mentioned the "first star" and the "mother of all matter and energy". After that, Tabula Mentis referred Ritchie to a website that spoke about the Big Bang in a metaphysical manner which I disagreed with. I then sent a PM to Ritchie asking him to clarify what he meant by "mother of all matter and energy". He responded with another user name which I had not seen before, and explained that he had not meant it in a metaphysical way at all. and that "mother" was the first star that was the genesis of all the matter and energy that came out of that singularity. In my response, I concurred as to the possibility of a first star from which emanated all things. Soon after, RitchieGuy told me that he was due to have heart surgery and that it had been planned for months. His doctor will not allow him to use the internet, not even to read the news for several months. I wished him good luck.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
"Becoming a teacher taught me somethingthat liberals really arent liberal. They are the kids that run up to me crying no fair when they made out playing whiffle ball during PE. Another teacher once went back to the students and made them let this child get another turn at batthen anotherthen another. After swinging and missing about 20 times the child finally hit the ball weakly. He wasnt satisfied though; he screamed no! I want to hit it goodly (I did mention this is public school right?). We will teach this kid better excuses, blame tactics, and the art of being a victim."
"When I blamed myself for a mistake I had made I realized I am not an American liberal."
http://thepeoples...790.html
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
In my country, there are no crybabies that are excessively coddled and given twenty chances or twenty choices. Tests are given at several levels to ascertain how far up the ladder of intelligence a student has achieved. Failure of those tests at any point will usually determine the type of work or possibility of higher or less education that each child can hope to attain. Waste of education is unheard of, and those who go on to higher education must also show results that are commensurate to the level they have achieved. If any child displays a weakness such as crying and demanding to be treated in a special way, they are often evaluated psychologically and the parents become suspected of raising a maladjusted or abused child. This most often gives parents the incentive to raise their child to be responsible and accountable for his own actions.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2012
Yes, in my country, we cannot afford to have our children grow up to be spoiled rotten such as the so-called 99% in America. We have to be careful how our money is spent, and it is therefore necessary to find the proper "niche" for each citizen according to his capabilities, skills and area of learning. Nobody is left out of our society and everyone has a place. Modern day Americans and other westerners are, for the most part, severely undisciplined and lack leadership qualities, while many are still wanting to be leaders. The days of excellence in America are done with, and now mediocrity is the order. We see that the U.S. government is filled with mediocre people who are proud of it and willing to display even more of it. Such as these will be the leaders of the destruction of the American system, and the 99% will enable it to happen. We in the Russian Federation are still in awe at the lack of discipline and bad teachers in American schools. We are still studying this phenomenon.
Tennex
not rated yet Apr 10, 2012
this most often gives parents the incentive to raise their child to be responsible and accountable for his own actions.
This is just a theory, as the Putin himself is paedophile who cannot control himself at public and his regime keeps all Russians pretty far away from every sign of democracy.
Vendicar_Decarian
not rated yet Apr 10, 2012
Libertarians saw american psychiatric hospitals doing the same thing and used the court system to empty American psychiatric patients onto the street where they became homeless, begging for money.

Libertarians are proud of creating this class of homeless beggars.

They consider it one of their greatest legacy's.

"Soviet psychiatric hospitals were used by the authorities as prisons in order to isolate hundreds or thousands of political prisoners from the rest of society" - RyggTard

NotParker
1 / 5 (1) Apr 10, 2012
Vendicar seems to be infinitely more intelligent and well informed than the FrankHerbert


One million times zero is still zero.
alta
not rated yet Apr 10, 2012
my roomate's aunt makes $83/hr on the laptop. She has been without work for 8 months but last month her pay was $8682 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Read more on this site...NuttyRich . com
Vendicar_Decarian
not rated yet Apr 11, 2012
Is that why you insist that the globe is cooling?

Ahahahahahahahahah........

"One million times zero is still zero." - ParkerTard
Vendicar_Decarian
not rated yet Apr 11, 2012
Virtual Gods generally get virtual funerals.

"I am curious. Were you invited to the funeral of God? Where is your evidence for it? If he never existed, then how could he have died?" - Ruskie
mtc123
5 / 5 (1) Apr 12, 2012
Therefore: Conservatism is obvious.
and therefore: Liberalism is convoluted and must be presented cloaked in fallacy.
Automorphism
not rated yet Apr 12, 2012
Liberals! Do you have a problem with conserving what made this country great in the first place?! You got a problem with the Bible? you got a problem with the Constitution? You got a problem with capitalism? If so, then get the hell out of this country. I've got a great idea, Why don't you move to Ukraine or China? There is enough socialism over there to last you a life time. O wait, that's right how can you spread the wealth if there is no wealth in the first place? Better yet, since Conservative America is so 'terrible' why don't you move to Africa or Antarctica, and respectively live in a mud hut or igloo.

The reason why liberals want to change America's standard basis of living so badly is because liberals are miserable people trying to spread their miserable way of life on us. You know the saying "misery loves company". Also note worthy, research has shown the only way to really make a liberal happy is to put a dick in their ass.
ryggesogn2
3 / 5 (2) Apr 12, 2012
The reason why liberals want to change America's standard basis of living so badly is because liberals are miserable people trying to spread their miserable way of life on us.

No, it's because they want to control others.
I suggest there are two types of 'liberals'. Those who seek the power to control others and their useful idiots who buy into their zero sum game, envy arguments.
Data for the past several hundred years proves wealth can be created, (and destroyed by 'liberals').
Even the World Bank agrees.
"A World Bank report makes clear how free marketsand U.S. leadershiphave led millions to better lives."
http://www.city-j...9gs.html
But 'liberals' must deny this data or they will loose power.

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