Astronomers detect vast amounts of gas and dust around black hole in early universe

Apr 02, 2012
This image shows the bright emission from carbon and dust in a galaxy surrounding the most distant supermassive black hole known. At a distance corresponding to 740 Million years after the Big Bang, the Carbon line, which is emitted by the galaxy at infrared wavelengths (that are unobservable from the ground), is redshifted, because of the expansion of the Universe, to millimeter wavelengths where it can be observed using facilities such as the IRAM Plateau de Bure Interferometer.

(PhysOrg.com) -- Using the IRAM array of millimetre-wave telescopes in the French Alps, a team of European astronomers from Germany, the UK and France have discovered a large reservoir of gas and dust in a galaxy that surrounds the most distant supermassive black hole known. Light from the galaxy, called J1120+0641, has taken so long to reach us that the galaxy is seen as it was only 740 million years after the Big Bang, when the universe was only 1/18th of its current age. Team leader Dr. Bram Venemans of the Max-Planck Institute for Astronomy in Heidelberg, Germany presented the new discovery at the National Astronomy Meeting in Manchester.

The Institut de Radioastronomie Millimetrique (IRAM) array is made up of six 15-m size telescopes that detect emission at millimetre wavelengths (about ten thousand times as long as visible light) sited on the 2550-m high Plateau de Bure in the . The IRAM telescopes work together to simulate a single much larger telescope in a so-called interferometer that can study objects in fine detail.

A recent upgrade to IRAM allowed the scientists to detect the newly discovered gas and dust that includes significant quantities of carbon. This is quite unexpected, as the chemical element carbon is created via of helium in the centres of and ejected into the galaxy when these stars end their lives in dramatic supernova explosions.

Dr. Venemans comments: "It’s really puzzling that such an enormous amount of carbon-enriched gas could have formed at these early times in the universe. The presence of so much carbon confirms that massive star formation must have occurred in the short period between the Big Bang and the time we are now observing the galaxy.”

From the emission from the dust, Venemans and his team are able to show that the galaxy is still forming stars at a rate that is 100 times higher than in our Milky Way.

They give credit to the IRAM upgrade that made the possible. "Indeed, we would not have been able to detect this emission only a couple years ago." says team member Dr. Pierre Cox, director of IRAM.

The astronomers are excited about the fact that this source is also visible from the southern hemisphere where the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array (ALMA), which will be the world's most advanced sub-millimetre / millimetre telescope array, is currently under construction in Chile. Observations with ALMA will enable a detailed study of the structure of this galaxy, including the way the gas and dust moves within it.

Dr. Richard McMahon, a member of the team from the University of Cambridge in the UK is looking forward to when ALMA is fully operational later this year. “The current observations only provide a glimpse of what ALMA will be capable of when we use it to study the formation of the first generation of galaxies."

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Kinedryl
1.8 / 5 (9) Apr 02, 2012
This is quite unexpected, as the chemical element carbon is created via nuclear fusion of helium in the centres of massive stars and ejected into the galaxy when these stars end their lives in dramatic supernova explosions.
This is just another problem with big bang cosmology: the heavy elements forming the dust shouldn't be present at the early parts of the Universe.
HannesAlfven
2.3 / 5 (9) Apr 02, 2012
There are apparently no number of surprises which are sufficient to induce the astrophysicists to question their favored cosmology. This is the historical lesson of the epicycles repeating itself. We like to imagine that with all of our technology that we are somehow more sophisticated than the ancient Greeks. But, when it comes to cosmology, it seems not so much.
Tuxford
2.4 / 5 (8) Apr 02, 2012
And there was no mention as to how such a supermassive black hole could have formed so rapidly? That that there is so much gas and dust should hint of a different scenario: continuous creation.

Astronomer must have very thick skulls, as they continue to bang their heads fantasizing about the Big Bang. It is certainly amusing. Why should we trust them ever again, when in a few years they are forced to recant this fairy tale? Will funding for their projects dry up, like funding for manned space exploration? Like CERN, better to keep the nonsense up as long as possible, to keep the paychecks rolling in.
Tennex
2.1 / 5 (7) Apr 02, 2012
Astronomer must have very thick skulls, as they continue to bang their heads fantasizing about the Big Bang. It is certainly amusing.

Every large group of people payed from mandatory fees will behave in the same way, like the Holy Church of medieval era. The consequences are undeniable.
MarkyMark
3 / 5 (2) Apr 03, 2012
Heh and which groupe do you come from Tennex?
10thman
2 / 5 (4) Apr 04, 2012
Dr. Venemans comments: "It's really puzzling that such an enormous amount of carbon-enriched gas could have formed at these early times in the universe..."

Gee, Doctor, shouldn't that mean Big Bang Theory is falsified? It should mean that, shouldn't it? That's how science is supposed to work, as opposed to myth.

"Physicist" mathematicians will now dutifully set about creating intricate equational fudge in order to preserve appearances of the falsified cosmology, just as Ptolemy's epicycles repeatedly attempted to do for the geocentric model.

Halton Arp is our modern Galileo. His rigorously recorded, very careful observations incontrovertibly reveal the falsehood of the old theory. The only difference today is in which establishment institution serves as the gatekeeping guardian of the Standard Model.
CardacianNeverid
5 / 5 (1) Apr 04, 2012
Gee, Doctor, shouldn't that mean Big Bang Theory is falsified? It should mean that, shouldn't it? That's how science is supposed to work, as opposed to myth -10thman

Maybe the 11thman might be less defective.
QuantaUniverseCom
1 / 5 (4) Apr 04, 2012
The carbon proves that the big-bang and phony black holes can be simulated by graphene metamaterials. This carbon did not form by stars, but pre-existed the big-bang. Stars are factories of buckyballs that superconduct electricity, having many cosmological properties like absorbing all incident light.
http://holographi...spot.com
10thman
2 / 5 (4) Apr 04, 2012
"Maybe the 11thman might be less defective."

hahaha, I'm not the one with the broken theory!
10thman
2.6 / 5 (5) Apr 04, 2012
It's so predictable on this site that any comment that strays from the Standard Model is ridiculed and voted down, while anything at all said by a Standard Model adherent is voted up no matter if it contains anything of substance or just a slur or smear. Pathetic. This is not a science web site, it is mythos web site, peopled by some kind of clique.
Terriva
2 / 5 (4) Apr 04, 2012
It's so predictable on this site that any comment that strays from the Standard Model is ridiculed and voted down, while anything at all said by a Standard Model adherent is voted up no matter if it contains anything of substance or just a slur or smear. Pathetic. This is not a science web site, it is mythos web site, peopled by some kind of clique.
And what else do you expect? The people are religious creatures, they haven't time to change from medieval times. The people who are downvoting the uncomfortable posts here are no conspiracy- they're normal, typical students of mainstream physics. They do behave like brainwashed sectarians, because whole the mainstream physic is sectarian. They're trained in description of reality with formal equations in mechanical way without understanding of real problem by contemporary educational system. If they wouldn't be brainwashed enough, they couldn't pass the examines.

We are just paying whole this pathology from our taxes.
CardacianNeverid
5 / 5 (3) Apr 05, 2012
It's so predictable on this site that any comment that strays from the Standard Model is ridiculed and voted down -nowhereman

Only if the poster reveals himself to be a dolt.

This is not a science web site, it is mythos web site, peopled by some kind of clique -nowhereman

The 'clique' is evidence based science. Try it sometime.
CardacianNeverid
5 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2012
They do behave like brainwashed sectarians, because whole the mainstream physic is sectarian. They're trained in description of reality with formal equations in mechanical way without understanding of real problem by contemporary educational system. If they wouldn't be brainwashed enough, they couldn't pass the examines.

We are just paying whole this pathology from our taxes -YAZC_Terriva

Do you actually do any work YAZC (Yet Another Zephir Clone), that is taxable? If so, I'd love to know what it is, because you seem to be operating in a different reality.
Lurker2358
2 / 5 (4) Apr 07, 2012
The presence of so much carbon confirms that massive star formation must have occurred in the short period between the Big Bang and the time we are now observing the galaxy.


Another piece of evidence suggesting the standard model of stellar formation is incorrect, particularly when dealing with elements heavier than Helium.

This evidence supports one of two notions...

All of the universe was created about the same time and stars and galaxies are all about the same "absolute" age.

Almost all stars visible in the universe are in fact first generation stars, including the Sun, and they are either about twice as old as anyone thinks they are, or else they were all created instantaneously "as is" (give or take some).

Heavier elements like Carbon and Iron found in planets, moons, and asteroids are created through processes that do not necessarily require massive stars or super novas, and may in fact have been created at the same time as the universe itself, contrary to theory.
Lurker2358
2 / 5 (4) Apr 07, 2012
The Sun is a First Generation Star, and is almost exactly the same age as the universe's diameter in light-years, which is to say 27.4 billion years.

If the stars in this distant galaxy were already 13 Billion years old...13 billion years ago, then that might explain how large amounts of Carbon would be in the galaxy.

OR if Carbon was created in tremendous quantities in heterogenous distributions at the same time as the universe itself, that would explain the observations.

Assumptions about conservation laws or vain symetries are irrational when considering the creative event, or even events very close to the creative event, since the laws of physics probably did not yet exist at all, or certainly not in their modern form at that instant.

There is absolutely no rational reason the creative event could not have produced fully formed planets, stars, galaxies, and black holes instantaneously, as it does not even violate conservation laws, but conservation is meaningless at creation.
Lurker2358
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 07, 2012
The reason one cannot "falsify" special creation is because it is so absolutely true as to be beyond contestation.

It is obviously not possible to prove something false if it is definitely true, and in the case of a metaphysical or the creation of a universe, there is no logical condition you could imagine whereby disproving special creation would be possible.

Absence of falsifiability obviously doesn't prove a statement false.

Tennex
5 / 5 (2) Apr 07, 2012
Absence of falsifiability obviously doesn't prove a statement false.
Of course not, but it excludes such subject from Socratic discussion, i.e. the discussion based on causal logic. The other ways of discussion have no meaning at PO, after all.
slayerwulfe
not rated yet Apr 09, 2012
There is nothing i am able to add except i really liked everyone's comments so much that i am saving them for a baby of 6 months
slayerwulfe
not rated yet Apr 09, 2012
It's so predictable on this site that any comment that strays from the Standard Model is ridiculed and voted down, while anything at all said by a Standard Model adherent is voted up no matter if it contains anything of substance or just a slur or smear. Pathetic. This is not a science web site, it is mythos web site, peopled by some kind of clique.
by slayerwulfe can i get an amen brother. i'm saving these comments so she'll know what to expect from those that do not even understand scientific method. i really want her to read yours, that there is hope.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2012
When the universe was 750 million years old, the volume of the universe was 1/2000th what it is today. It's density was 2,000 times larger than today. Dust particles were 10 times closer than they are today, and gravitational anomalies were correspondingly more potent than today.

Hydrogen clouds were more dense, and collapsed faster and in larger bulk than today. As a result stars were generally heavier, burned faster and exploded earlier.

Assuming 200,000,000 years to get neutral hydrogen, 500,000,000 remain. Assuming 30,000,000 to collapse and 30,000,000 to burn out for the most massive stars, there is enough time for 5 generations of supermassive stars to produce carbon and other elements.

I fail to see the problem.

"Another piece of evidence suggesting the standard model of stellar formation is incorrect, particularly when dealing with elements heavier than Helium." - LurkerTard