Suit alleges dismissal for intelligent design

Mar 11, 2012 By GILLIAN FLACCUS , Associated Press

(AP) -- NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory has landed robotic explorers on the surface of Mars, sent probes to outer planets and operates a worldwide network of antennas that communicates with interplanetary spacecraft.

Its latest mission is defending itself in a workplace lawsuit filed by a former computer specialist who claims he was demoted - and then let go - for promoting his views on intelligent design, the belief that a higher power must have had a hand in creation because life is too complex to have developed through evolution alone.

David Coppedge, who worked as a "team lead" on the Cassini mission exploring Saturn and its many moons, alleges that he was discriminated against because he engaged his co-workers in conversations about intelligent design and handed out DVDs on the idea while at work. Coppedge lost his "team lead" title in 2009 and was let go last year after 15 years on the mission.

Opening statements are expected to begin Monday in Los Angeles Superior Court after two years of legal wrangling in a case that has generated interest among supporters of intelligent design. The Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian civil rights group, and the Discovery Institute, a proponent of intelligent design, are both supporting Coppedge's case.

"It's part of a pattern. There is basically a war on anyone who dissents from Darwin and we've seen that for several years," said John West, associate director of Center for Science and Culture at the Seattle-based Discovery Institute. "This is free speech, freedom of conscience 101."

The National Center for Science Education, which rejects intelligent design as thinly veiled creationism, is also watching the case and has posted all the legal filings on its website.

"It would be unfortunate if the court took what seems to be a fairly straightforward employment law case and allowed it to become this tangled mess of trying to adjudicate scientific matters," said Josh Rosenau, NCSE's programs and policy director. "It looks like a pretty straightforward case. The mission that he was working on was winding down and he was laid off."

Coppedge's attorney, William Becker, says his client was singled out by his bosses because they perceived his belief in intelligent design to be religious. Coppedge had a reputation around JPL as an evangelical Christian and other interactions with co-workers led some to label him as a Christian conservative, Becker said.

In the lawsuit, Coppedge says he believes other things also led to his demotion, including his support for a state ballot measure that sought to define marriage as limited to heterosexual couples and his request to rename the annual holiday party a "Christmas party."

"David had this reputation for being a Christian, for being a practicing one. He did not go around evangelizing or proselytizing. But if he found out that someone was a Christian he would say, `Oh that's interesting, what denomination are you?'" Becker said.

"He's not apologizing for who he is. He's an evangelical Christian."

In an emailed statement, JPL dismissed Coppedge's claims. In court papers, lawyers for the California Institute of Technology, which manages JPL for NASA, said Coppedge received a written warning because his co-workers complained of harassment. They also said Coppedge lost his "team lead" status because of ongoing conflicts with others.

Caltech lawyers contend Coppedge was one of two Cassini technicians and among 246 JPL employees let go last year due to planned budget cuts.

While the case has attracted interest because of the controversial nature of intelligent design, it is at its heart a straightforward discrimination case, said Eugene Volokh, a professor of First Amendment law at the University of California, Los Angeles School of Law.

"The question is whether the plaintiff was fired simply because he was wasting people's time and bothering them in ways that would have led him to being fired regardless of whether it was about religion or whether he was treated worse based on the religiosity of his beliefs," said Volokh. "If he can show that, then he's got a good case."

Coppedge, who began working for JPL as a contractor in 1996 and was hired in 2003, is active in the intelligent design sphere and runs a website that interprets scientific discoveries through the lens of intelligent design. His father authored an anti-evolution book and founded a Christian outreach group.

He is also a board member for Illustra Media, a company that produces video documentaries examining the scientific evidence for intelligent design. The company produces the videos that Coppedge was handing out to co-workers, said Becker, his attorney.

His main duties at JPL were to maintain computer networks and troubleshoot technical problems for the mission. In 2000, he was named "team lead," serving as a liaison between technicians and managers for nearly a decade before being demoted in 2009.

He sued in April 2010 alleging religious discrimination, retaliation and harassment and amended his suit to include wrongful termination after losing his job last year.

Coppedge is seeking attorney's fees and costs, damages for wrongful termination and a statement from the judge that his rights were violated, said Becker.

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mvg
2.6 / 5 (15) Mar 11, 2012
"His main duties at JPL were to maintain computer networks and troubleshoot technical problems for the mission."

With those duties, what difference would it make what he believes?

freethinking
1.7 / 5 (30) Mar 11, 2012
MVG, I agree, what difference would it make what he believes as long as he does his job. Problem is Many Progressives hate Christians and have no problem denying them their rights.

Since he has brought this law suit, as a Christian I hope his allegations of discrimination are true, if true are provable, and if provable, the judge judges fairly.

jesse_rock
3.5 / 5 (15) Mar 11, 2012
Calls himself "freethinking"; "as a Christian...".
mvg
2.7 / 5 (7) Mar 11, 2012
MVG, I agree, what difference would it make what he believes as long as he does his job. Problem is Many Progressives hate Christians and have no problem denying them their rights."

Perhaps Prejudice is the 'least common denominator' of human nature.
axemaster
4.8 / 5 (16) Mar 11, 2012
"David Coppedge, who worked as a "team lead" on the Cassini mission exploring Saturn and its many moons, alleges that he was discriminated against because he engaged his co-workers in conversations about intelligent design and handed out DVDs on the idea while at work."

He sounds really annoying...
Callippo
1.5 / 5 (15) Mar 11, 2012
To be perfectly honest, I do consider the people adhering on creationism in its strong form a biased and a bit senile. And I don't like the people with biased religious thinking in any form. There is an elevated probability, such a people will remain biased even in another areas, where the rigorous unbiased thinking is required and as such incompetent for their work.

But on the other hand, the mild forms of creationism represent the natural opposition for Darwinism, which lacks the scientific feedback today. For example, the Fred Hoyle believed in panspermia events and such an events could influent the evolution of terrestrial life from outside in the way, which contemporary evolutionary theory cannot handle. In particular, just the NASA specialists are fluent in observations of UFO, in findings of traces of extraterrestrial life inside of Mars meteorites, and so on - so they should judge the evolutionary theory with caution from this perspective.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (24) Mar 11, 2012
Jesse, Christians are commanded to prove all things... I would agree that too many don't, but I find the more Progressive one is, the less they are willing to think and more likely they are to discriminate against those that don't believe the way they do.

If you read what I said, even though I HOPE what he is saying is true (as Christians are suppose to be truthful), that he receives a fair judging.
Callippo
1 / 5 (11) Mar 11, 2012
Apology: influent = influence, etc.. The spell checker is not everything sometimes..
There is basically a war on anyone who dissents from Darwin and we've seen that for several years
The proponents of mainstream science are really hostile against all ideas, which could help them to understand their own science, like the dense aether model of space-time. But I never met with some intelligent arguments related to intelligent design, in particular because whole this idea relies to arguments, which defy the rational reasoning. I only met with less or more intelligent arguments against evolution, which I do consider with caution. IMO the Christianity is defined in the way, which excludes any form of extraterrestrial intelligence or panspermia event, so it cannot contribute with anything positive into discussion itself.
Sonhouse
4.5 / 5 (16) Mar 11, 2012
I had a Jehovah witness dude at work say to me several times,'Is you completely satisfied wich yo life?, No, come down to our meetin hall, we'll straighten you out spiritually'. It was very annoying and ate into our work time. A guy is hired to do troubleshooting like I do, he shouldn't be interrupted with that kind of BS.
flashgordon
3.9 / 5 (18) Mar 11, 2012
The Pilgrims who settled Plymouth Massechusetts did so after first trying Holland; only, they found the free-thinking there intolerable; so, they left for the Americas where they could later inspire the Salem witch trials.

This is typical christian thinking. They turn everything inside out. They believe in a religion they know nothing about and try to act like the victims.
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (22) Mar 11, 2012
Would the govt fire a Muslim who promoted Islam at work?
flashgordon
3.7 / 5 (15) Mar 11, 2012
Would the govt fire a Muslim who promoted Islam at work?


not the point; read the article; christian scientists gets let go becaue of downsizing; he tries to cash in by claiming his colleagues didn't accept his religious dvds.
NeuroPulse
4.5 / 5 (15) Mar 11, 2012
Of course, one is free to have whatever religious beliefs one wishes. The problem was he was evangelizing at work. Handing out religious material. Creationism or "intelligent design" is not science. It is religion. This was proven quite thoroughly in the Dover school district case.
SincerelyTwo
4.5 / 5 (17) Mar 11, 2012
If someone constantly lectured their personal religious views at me while I was at work I would feel very uncomfortable. Especially while I'm at work I would not like a Christian constantly challenging my understanding that evolution has driven the development of complex life on earth. the joke is because I spoke that phrase some preachy Christian will argue with me. This, essentially, is the truth; it's not that you're Christian, it's that you also get in people's faces and don't stfu while they're at work, these people don't want to be lectured on their personal beliefs while dealing with space flight/network related challenges. I would have submitted complaints against this person as well.

There's nothing he can say to defend his position on bringing his personal sh*t into the work place. Handing out DVD's to people, seriously? Keep it at home, this is NASA and not your church.
Callippo
3.2 / 5 (20) Mar 11, 2012
This story just illustrates, the religious approach brings a social problems and it polarizes the personal relations - even here, on this remote forum - no matter how well intentioned it originally was. So we should avoid it at public in the same way, like the usage of drugs.

"Religion is the opium of the people". If you believe, you cannot think. If you cannot think, you're just making troubles for all other thinking people. It's as simple, as it is.
kochevnik
2.5 / 5 (19) Mar 11, 2012
@freethinking MVG, I agree, what difference would it make what he believes as long as he does his job. Problem is Many Progressives hate Christians and have no problem denying them their rights.
Retardation affects the work environment. It's documented on this site that IQs vary with one's social circle. Listening to stupid fairy tales and moronic pious bullshit does brain damage, even if invisible with current technology. Besides, I documented your religion is oxymoronic garbage and you failed to defend your worthless myths. At least come up with some defensible new age mumbo jumbo that hasn't been pounded into hammered effluent.
Callippo
1.8 / 5 (18) Mar 11, 2012
It's documented on this site that IQs vary with one's social circle.
IMO it's just you who enforces the stereotype of rude primitive Asians from Russia right now. Your attacks against Christianity fit this stereotype quite well - it just covers your frustration with verbal aggression against large group of people. Try to think about it: you're doing exactly the things, which you're criticizing here.
Callippo
1.5 / 5 (15) Mar 11, 2012
BTW At the case of Russians one can be never sure, if they're atheists because of love of rational thinking - or if they're simply brainwashed from the era of stalinism. For many people the religion is certain attribute of credibility and adherence on moral principles. The fact, you're refusing Christianity (or whatever else religion) loudly just doesn't make you better or even more advanced.
Excalibur
3.1 / 5 (23) Mar 11, 2012
Looking to ones imaginary friend for guidance is hardly a sign of rationality.
shawnhar
4.1 / 5 (10) Mar 11, 2012
All I can think is....Thank god they fired that guy!
Intelligent design is not science, it's religion, and it has no place in the workplace. JPL? NASA? Passing out religious DVD's? I would so get fired if I passed out info about atheism at work I would be blackballed instantly, yet the religous groups are given free passage to assault the rest of us ad nauseum. THAT is why we are defensive, not because we hate them but because of what they have done to us.
kochevnik
2.8 / 5 (16) Mar 11, 2012
It's documented on this site that IQs vary with one's social circle.
IMO it's just you who enforces the stereotype of rude primitive Asians from Russia right now. Your attacks against Christianity fit this stereotype quite well - it just covers your frustration with verbal aggression against large group of people.
Way to miss the point. People working in an office have a right to focus on their work, and not be dogged by a passive-aggressive Christian Nationalist coworker or incessantly reminded of some untenable cold-fusion experiment. It's laughable that you could construe an intolerant cult born out of banning all Rome's religions as legitimate. It bears all the legitimacy of the fascist axe.

And you did nothing to disprove the well researched fact that mingling with morons damages one's IQ.

Mind you, the same people who sacked Constantinople. So tolerant are these xtians. They never let religion get in the way of a good raping and pillaging.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (18) Mar 11, 2012
"David Coppedge, who worked as a "team lead" on the Cassini mission exploring Saturn and its many moons, alleges that he was discriminated against because he engaged his co-workers in conversations about intelligent design and handed out DVDs on the idea while at work."

-These activities were expressly not allowed as part of his job description. This is why he was fired. This story was here on physorg about a year ago. Anybody remember the pic of this leering goon? You know, the 'Im so happy I've got Jesus that I'm about to burst - and you can be this happy too (or burn)!' grin we've seen in church?

And rygge is of course right - we have seen the dangers of allowing religionists to ply their wares in the workplace, with the shootings at ft hood and the 2 officers recently shot in afghanistan because somebody burned some storybooks. They belong nowhere.
Callippo
2 / 5 (11) Mar 11, 2012
People working in an office have a right to focus on their work, and not be dogged by a passive-aggressive Christian Nationalist coworker or incessantly reminded of some untenable cold-fusion experiment.
It's the question, how aggressive this "Christian nationalist" really was - we know anything about this case. The Cassino's mission is one of the most successful projects of NASA ever, so I do presume, he was a good leader. I can say as well, I don't want to read about building of coal plants and about the hypothetical achievements of NIF/ITER facilities at every second article at PO, because the real contribution of these projects to future of human civilization is negligible. It's sorta modern religion as well - no matter whether it is supported with some half-baked theories or not. In addition, the people visiting the PO forum mostly don't work, they actually avoid the work in office instead. We are discussing here voluntarily and we aren't required to spend our time here.
rwinners
3.1 / 5 (17) Mar 11, 2012
Preaching on the job is a no no. And should be. This behavior puts his co-workers and those he supervises in a very difficult position.
We all have our beliefs. We should be allowed to keep them separate from our work lives.
A reasonable choice by NASA.
kochevnik
2.5 / 5 (15) Mar 11, 2012
BTW At the case of Russians one can be never sure, if they're atheists because of love of rational thinking - or if they're simply brainwashed from the era of stalinism.
Stalin was Jesuit-educated and destroyed the Orthodox Church to clear the way for catholicism, which has infected half of Ukraine and split the country. Thanks again for proving my point!

Yet another current example of christianity at work is a one Mr. Joseph Kony head of the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA). His specialty is cutting the lips off women so they can't speak heresy against his religion. He also is fond to gathering children in pits and burning them alive. Could that possibly in tribute to the Vatican god Moloch, god of molestation?
Callippo
1.6 / 5 (14) Mar 12, 2012
Preaching on the job is a no no. And should be.
Of course not. But has the situation really appeared so?
which has infected half of Ukraine and split the country
Ukraine was already independent country before Russia annexed it. IMO you're thinking like the nationalist Zhirinovsky. The accusation of Stalin from support of catholicism is simply out of reality, in East Europe countries the catholicism suffered most just during government of Stalin. Stalin hated every religion.
kochevnik
3.2 / 5 (13) Mar 12, 2012
I can't get the image out of my head of the xtian nationalist spewing heliocentric theories while attempting to navigate the Cassini through asteroid belts. Should the craft be pummeled, he can simply declare science invalid, the sun to orbit around the flat Earth and point the blame at NASA for being so foolhardy and arrogant as to provoke gawd.
barakn
4.3 / 5 (11) Mar 12, 2012
The guy was using time in which he should have been working for personal stuff. A tax-payer funded employee. It doesn't matter how he was wasting it, he could have been learning to juggle or watching porn. That alone would be cause to fire him. But add on top of that the fact that he was wasting other people's time as well, and that there might even have been financial incentive for him to hand out the dvds (being a board member of the company that produces them).... He was a piss-poor employee who got what he so richly deserved.
Callippo
1.8 / 5 (14) Mar 12, 2012
I would understand it, if Coppedge would lead the JWST team, for example. But the Cassini mission was undoubtedly one of the most successful projects of NASA ever and if NASA is willing to lose one of leading experts in this area, then we should be prepared for very good reasoning of its stance, or for some conspiratorial explanations, which actually have nothing to do with religion at all.
He was a piss-poor employee who got what he so richly deserved
Do you know more about this case, than the article provides? If not, then you're revealing rather your personality than Coppedge's one by now.
kochevnik
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 12, 2012
The accusation of Stalin from support of catholicism is simply out of reality, in East Europe countries the catholicism suffered most just during government of Stalin. Stalin hated every religion.
Look on a map http://www.augb.c...-map.htm you will see that Stalin forced starvation on the Orthodox Church heartland, and left the catholic west unscathed. It's so easy to disprove religious nutjobs these days with a mouse click.
Callippo
1.4 / 5 (10) Mar 12, 2012
and left the catholic west unscathed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union[ [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_victims_of_Soviet_persecutions]http://en.wikiped...ecutions
[url=http://college.holycross.edu/faculty/vlapomar/persecut/ussr.html]http://college.ho...ssr.html
http://econc10.bu...RCH.html

Frankly, to say that comrade Stalin supported the Holy Church is like the saying, the Hitler supported the Gypsies, because most of his victims were Jews.
kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (8) Mar 12, 2012
@Callippo I just showed you a map proving Jesuit Stalin targeted Orthodox Christians for elimination. You have no rebuttal. The Vatican is the most dangerous terrorist organization the world has known. It's tentacles control banking, secret police SS like Hitler's and the USA's Secret Service, and they are ever moving nations toward war so as to expand the catholic cult.

Religion is at the root of war and it's adherents are are a cancer upon all free thinkers and those who choose reason over tyranny. Lets remember the word religion. The etymology of the word religion is religare in Latin, which means to re-bind.

What do you re-bind it into? A fascio. What is a fascio? It is a bundle of sticks, but it is also fascism.
CardacianNeverid
4.6 / 5 (9) Mar 12, 2012
NASA is defending itself in a workplace lawsuit filed by a former computer specialist who claims he was demoted - and then let go - for promoting his views on intelligent design -article

I applaud NASA for its vision.

if I passed out info about atheism at work I would be blackballed instantly -shawnhar

You would pass out info about nothing?
Callippo
1.8 / 5 (9) Mar 12, 2012
The Vatican is the most dangerous terrorist organization the world has known.
IMO every group of people can become pretty annoying, if they get a sufficient power. The Holy Church was just historically the first, but definitely not last one. I actually don't like every person, which hates the other people from whatever reason. Now it's just you, who attacks the rest of people. The (fight against) religion is just an evasion for asocial behavior. We shouldn't tolerate the persons, who are promoting the intolerance and animosity between people.
CardacianNeverid
4.3 / 5 (12) Mar 12, 2012
The (fight against) religion is just an evasion for asocial behavior. -ClappoTard

No it isn't. It's a fight against mass indoctrination, superstition and ignorance. By weeding that out from society, it can only improve outcomes in just about all domains.
Callippo
1.3 / 5 (13) Mar 12, 2012
No it isn't. It's a fight against mass indoctrination, superstition and ignorance. By weeding that out from society, it can only improve outcomes in just about all domains.

The same people like you believe in gravitational waves, Big bang and impossibility of cold fusion. And they gain the resources from others to support their religion. Of course, Holy Church caused many problems, but now its the scientists who gained its power and many negative aspects of large sectarian community. I'm asking you to stop with your censorship, mass downovoting of the opinion of another people and with religion first - just after then you can judge and require the very same from other people. Until you do it, you will just replace one religion with another one for the sake of your power.
mueckstein
3.8 / 5 (4) Mar 12, 2012
Message to employers: don't hire evangelical Christians, because you can't lay them off again without them calling it religious persecution.
Talk about unfortunate side effects.
CardacianNeverid
4.7 / 5 (12) Mar 12, 2012
The same people like you believe in gravitational waves, Big bang and impossibility of cold fusion -ClappoTard

That's right tard boy! I believe in evidence. You believe in pixie science and conspiracies.

And they gain the resources from others to support their religion -ClappoTard

WTF?

Of course, Holy Church caused many problems, but now its the scientists who gained its power and many negative aspects of large sectarian community -ClappoTard

Oh oh, sinking fast...

I'm asking you to stop with your censorship -ClappoTard

I don't have the power to censor, unfortunately.

mass downovoting of the opinion of another people -ClappoTard

If it's crap, it gets what it deserves. Intelligent, considered posts get rewarded. You only see it as 'mass' downvoting because 99% of your posts (including all your aliases) is crapola. But, I think I did give you a 5 once or twice in a climate thread, can't remember which alias you used at the time...
Callippo
1.6 / 5 (8) Mar 12, 2012
Message to employers: don't hire evangelical Christians, because you can't lay them off again without them calling it religious persecution. Talk about unfortunate side effects.
Such bias is culture dependent. Try to tell it the employers in Iran or North Korea. In the country of lawyers like the USA you should be careful, when you're firing the women, too young or too old, too black or too yellow or green people.
That's right tard boy! I believe in evidence.
You're believing in interpretations of evidence. This is still a difference.
CardacianNeverid
4.4 / 5 (9) Mar 12, 2012
You're believing in interpretations of evidence. This is still a difference -ClappoTard

Well duh! All evidence is interpreted. Do you have a point?
Cave_Man
2.9 / 5 (8) Mar 12, 2012
So a higher power created the universe but yet that higher power did nothing about him getting fired.

Take some LSD or DMT or Salvia Divinorum or some Liberty Caps (shrooms) and you will understand that the entire universe is alive and there are dimensions of the mind that cannot be studied with space ships or particle colliders.

It's amazing though how many "rational" people participate in the MASSIVE delusion of organized religion.

There are two 'religions' i respect. Those are Zen Buddhism and a form of belief that takes into account my experiences on hallucinogenic substances (hallucinogenic is the wrong word, a better one may be 'entheogenic' or giving rise to 'God' within ones self.

But come on, life and death are bigger than technology and bigger than societal trends. Consciousness itself cannot be explained since it's consciousness that is our only tool to explain experience.
Callippo
1.3 / 5 (13) Mar 12, 2012
All evidence is interpreted. Do you have a point?
Of course - the interpretation or red shift by expansion of Universe was objected with its founder (E.Hubble) already, the interpretation of gravitational waves by relativity has been impeached with its founder (A.Einstein) already - well, and the denial of cold fusion is the greatest failure of mainstream science of modern era.
It's amazing though how many "rational" people participate in the MASSIVE delusion of organized religion.
Maybe it's amazing, maybe not - but the AWT explains it. We are just passing the era of success of deterministic rational thinking and returning into era of more holistic and pluralistic judgment of reality.
CardacianNeverid
4.5 / 5 (11) Mar 12, 2012
the interpretation or red shift by expansion of Universe was objected with its founder (E.Hubble) already -ClappoTard

Where? And show a reference in a peer reviewed journal where red shift is discredited.

the interpretation of gravitational waves by relativity has been impeached with its founder (A.Einstein) already -ClappoTard

Where tard boy? And show a reference in a peer reviewed journal where gravitational waves are invalidated.

the denial of cold fusion is the greatest failure of mainstream science of modern era -TardOfTards

More like the greatest vindication of the scientific method. Grow a brain!
Callippo
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 12, 2012
Consciousness itself cannot be explained since it's consciousness that is our only tool to explain experience.
Never say never. One of property of human consciousness is its ability to extrapolate outside the scope of our experience.
Callippo
1.4 / 5 (9) Mar 12, 2012
Where? And show a reference in a peer reviewed journal where red shift is discredited.
Hubble wrote six years after publishing of his finding:

"if redshift are not primarily due to velocity shift the velocity-distance relation is linear, the distribution of the nebula is uniform, there is no evidence of expansion, no trace of curvature, no restriction of the time scale and we find ourselves in the presence of one of the principle of nature that is still unknown to us today expanding models are a forced interpretation of the observational results if the redshifts are a Doppler shift the observations as they stand lead to the anomaly of a closed universe, curiously small and dense, and, it may be added, suspiciously young. if not, then these anomalies disappear and the region observed appears as a small, homogeneous, but insignificant portion of a universe extended indefinitely both in space and time"
kevinrtrs
2.9 / 5 (15) Mar 12, 2012
It's unfortunate that he lost his job, for whatever reason.

Fact is that people in general DO NOT want to hear / talk about their religious beliefs at work since it's an intimate thing.

So the question arise whether he was making a nuisance of himself and annoying people with his insistence on taking DVDs. In my opinion one should express one's viewpoint once and then if anyone shows any interest, follow up with that person only.

There's no reason to badger people at work with one's beliefs, hoping they'll change. One can only do it by living the life you profess.

I consider it different on the internet - you are free to leave your comment and others are free to read or ignore. Or flame. Comes with the territory.

CardacianNeverid
4.7 / 5 (12) Mar 12, 2012
Hubble wrote six years after publishing of his finding -ClappoTard

I see, so no, you can't provide a reference to a current peer reviewed journal. What was unknown in Hubble's day is certainly known today which makes his objection at the time null and void.

Do you also have 150 year old Darwin quotes up your sleeve which disproves evolution?
Tausch
2.1 / 5 (11) Mar 12, 2012
Passing out is a serious medical indication.
Passing out DVDs is fatal.
kochevnik
1.8 / 5 (9) Mar 12, 2012
Consciousness itself cannot be explained since it's consciousness that is our only tool to explain experience.
Yes unfortunately stuck in the physical we are forced to contend not with the illuminated, but the bastards who construe the metaphors of the wise as to be taken literally. This undermines the very collected wisdom they claim to enshrine. They then enforce rules which, after a time, create the dialectic to which they oppose at no end. Thus the institutionalized theocratics ensnare mankind in their chaotic dualism. Science and rational inquiry have provided an escape from this incessant chaos. In a way science is the order created by man's innate fear of death.
DarkHorse66
2.2 / 5 (10) Mar 12, 2012
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, Callippo. It's bad enough that you keep trying to ram the same stuff about ether theories and whatnot down everybody's throat on pages in the science section every chance you get...but on a site like this!!!!! There is such a thing as subject appropriateness & your comments aren't! Even if the guy DID work for NASA; that is not the issue here and I am quite sure that at least a good proportion of people who come to the non-science sections of this site, do NOT come here out out of an interest in scientific theories, especially ones flogged half to death. However I am sure that most of them will be well able to appreciate the following observation: YOU FLOG THAT ETHER THEORY WITH THE SAME LEVEL OF INTENSITY & FERVOUR AS THIS GUY FLOGGING HIS BELIEFS. Apart from the subject matter, where is the difference?You both worship your convictions religiously.Or are you so blinkered by your convictions that you cannot see what effect you have every time you repeat them?DH66
Kinedryl
1 / 5 (7) Mar 12, 2012
you cannot see what effect you have every time you repeat them?
I'm not quite sure what do you want to say.. Do you want to indicate undaringly, the repetition is the mother of wisdom?
DarkHorse66
2 / 5 (8) Mar 12, 2012
I'm not quite sure what do you want to say.. Do you want to indicate undaringly, the repetition is the mother of wisdom?
On the contrary. There is no wisdom in repeating yourself ad infinitum, when you have been told over and over again by so many that they really don't want to hear it anymore. The problem is that repetition doesn't actually make something more palatable - or more true. You are trying to push your theories in a very unfertile environment, where you are more likely to turn others away, than you are to convert them. Most of the time this causes an awful waste of space and time filled with unnecessary arguing. What is worse is when it has nothing to do with the question being asked and you slip it in anyway and by extension fail to answer what are often honest questions by people just trying to increase their understanding of the topic's subject matter. You just can't let it rest, even when it doesn't belong there. That is what I mean by religious fervour...cont
DarkHorse66
2 / 5 (8) Mar 12, 2012
cont... Real wisdom would be to live and let live. In other words, keep your beliefs to yourself and allow others the freedom to cherish theirs. This also means having an open mind about what others have to say and respecting their contributions as well as they fact that this site is not actually here for your purpose. It is a pity that you seem to have such difficulty in this arena. I'm sure that when you are not proselytising, you could have a great deal more to contribute. Productively. Please have a good think about what I have just said, and moderate your participation accordingly. PLEASE. Perhaps then you might find people being more open to real discussion with you (instead of constant arguments) and it might be more pleasant all round.
Regards, DH66
DarkHorse66
2.3 / 5 (9) Mar 12, 2012
@Kinedril:
I would also like to add that what you are pushing is not accepted theory, let alone mainstream physics. No matter how hard you try to pretend otherwise. If you choose to espouse such divergent views/theories, especially at all costs, this cost does eventually include your very credibility on the field in general, irrespective of how genuine your desire to 'convert' others might be. The end result will be -whether you like it/intend it, or not- that everyone stops taking you seriously and treats you like an annoying bad joke. Nothing personal. I am just observing what is just a natural progression in terms of a sociological nature. Judging by the ongoing nature of many people's responses over many threads over an extended period, it is already happening. It is almost as if you go looking for it. Surely this is not what you really want?!? Regards, DH66
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (2) Mar 12, 2012
"Preaching on the job is a no no. And should be." - rwinners

Unless of course, it is the morning Walmart prayer meeting.

http://www.youtub...=related

http://www.youtub...=related

http://www.youtub...nvyyC-Oc
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (4) Mar 12, 2012
Libertarian RyggTard seems to be unusually concerned with Muslims.

"Would the govt fire a Muslim who promoted Islam at work?" - RyggTard

Has the gubderment fired this Christian nutcase who promoted his religion at work?

Very Probably not.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (14) Mar 12, 2012
Of course ID can also mean genetic manipulation by an alien intelligence over thousands of years.
After all, humans are genetically manipulating. Is that not ID?
kochevnik
2.5 / 5 (10) Mar 12, 2012
Now it's just you, who attacks the rest of people. The (fight against) religion is just an evasion for asocial behavior.
NOT ONLY MYSELF: Two Ukrainian organizations, The Ukrainian Union of Nazi Victims and Prisoners and The Organization of Antifascist Resistance Fighters, representing over 300,000 Ukrainian World War II victims of Nazi and Fascist aggression announced the filing of a class action lawsuit alleging complicity in war crimes by the Vatican Bank and the Franciscan Order. State Department Report which linked the disappearance of the treasury of the Nazi satellite state of Fascist Croatia to the Vatican Bank and Roman Catholic Church Officials. The Fascist Croatian state is credited with murdering over 700,000 Serbians between 1941 and its demise in 1945. The Serbs were brutally liquidated in a state sponsored killing spree aimed at cleansing Croatia of adherents to Eastern Orthodox Christianity and the foundation of an ethnically pure,
Roman Catholic state. ctd
kochevnik
2.4 / 5 (11) Mar 12, 2012
..Croatian army, navy, and air force divisions assisted the German Army in occupying Ukraine during the war. The Croatian forces also participated in the well documented, systematic looting of Ukraine by the Nazis. The suit seeks to recover a percentage of the Croatian hoard estimated to have been worth as much as 180 million dollars in 1945.
Another Ukrainian class action was filed last August in New York on behalf of former Ukrainian slave laborers...The majority
of Ukrainians are in sympathy with the little known Serbian Holocaust. Recent books, including the best selling "Hitler's Pope" and a soon to be released Argentine government report, firmly link Vatican organizations to the Fascist Croatian state and subsequent disappearance of its treasury following the Nazi defeat.
mrlewish
4 / 5 (4) Mar 12, 2012
Well if you had a boss and he "handed out" DVDs at work.. it can be a bit intimidating. I suspect that he was doing what he is accusing others of doing.. being discriminatory against those that disagreed with his views and it came back and bit him.. Good riddance to bad trash.
Modernmystic
1.5 / 5 (15) Mar 12, 2012
Well, it could come about in the following way. It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved, probably by some kind of Darwinian means, probably to a very high level of technology, and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Now, um, now that is a possibility, and an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer.


-Richard Dawkins-

Not fit to work at JPL either...