Global warming skepticism climbs during tough economic times

Mar 13, 2012

The American public's growing skepticism in recent years about the existence of man-made global warming is rooted in apprehension about the troubled economy, a University of Connecticut study suggests.

Lyle Scruggs, associate professor of political science in UConn's College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, says the public's belief in dropped significantly as the economy dipped and unemployment climbed in the late 2000s.

His research with UConn political science graduate student Salil Benegal found that popular alternative explanations -- partisan politics on the issue, accusations of biased media coverage, and weather fluctuations -- could not explain the suddenness and timing of the changing opinions.

Many believe the solution to global warming is suppressing , Scruggs says, but that's an unpopular view when the economy is struggling. "So it's easier for people to disbelieve in climate change than to accept that it is real, but little should be done about it right now," he says.

Scruggs and Benegal published their findings online in the journal on Feb. 24.

The study relies primarily on information from numerous national and international public opinion surveys dating to the late 1980s.

The researchers found stark declines in the public's belief in global warming in the late 2000s. In 2008, for example, the Gallup poll reported 60 to 65 percent of people agreed with statements that global warming is imminent, is not exaggerated and is agreed upon by scientists as a valid theory. By 2010, those numbers had dropped to about 50 percent.

The authors also found a strong relationship between jobs and people's prioritization of climate change. When the was 4.5 percent, an average 60 percent of people surveyed said climate change had already started. But when the jobless rate reached 10 percent, that number dropped to about 50 percent.

Scruggs says the trend also held true among survey respondents across political parties.

The authors did find that if people had experienced a recent change in short-term weather, they were more likely to believe that climate is changing over the long term. But when these effects were controlled, the economy mattered more than the weather, Scruggs says.

Their research found the same skepticism during tough economic times in European countries, despite what some see as a stronger overall pro-climate ethos there.

The researchers speculate that cognitive dissonance, which occurs when people experience conflicting thoughts and behaviors, could explain the pattern. Many people view economic growth and environmental protection to be in conflict, so admitting that climate change is real but should be ignored in favor of economic growth leads to an internal philosophical clash.

"Psychologically, people have to evaluate economic imperatives in the recession, and that can create conflicting concerns," Scruggs says.

Now that the economy is beginning to recover and the unemployment rate is shrinking, Scruggs says that it makes sense that belief in is starting to rebound.

"We would expect such a rebound to continue as the economy improves," he says. "You wouldn't make that prediction if you think something else, like political rhetoric, is the issue."

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More information: link to abstract: http://bit.ly/yo0AbO

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Vendicar_Decarian
3.2 / 5 (19) Mar 13, 2012
You have to be pretty feeble minded to have your view of climate altered by national unemployment rates.

But this evidence does support the previous research that shows that Conservatives are inferior thinkers and have feeble minds.

There certainly is ample evidence of that fact to be found on this forum.

Rational thinkers base their view of physical reality on evidence, not economics.
Modernmystic
2.5 / 5 (14) Mar 13, 2012
Even if true Vendi, good luck in getting any carbon taxes, new moratoriums on drilling, mandates for hybrids, preventing new refineries from getting built etc etc.

In the end money is a better tool of persuasion than a gun. If you honestly want people to change their ways you're going to ACTUALLY have to give them an alternative to living like serfs or dying of starvation....no really....
Vendicar_Decarian
3.3 / 5 (12) Mar 13, 2012
Carbon Taxes are a means to an end. The end is the reduction in CO2 emissions. The means - Carbon Taxes - were the method preferred by Conservative Economists.

"In the end money is a better tool of persuasion than a gun." - Modern

Then you agree with Conservative Economists who have promoted those taxes.

rubberman
3 / 5 (9) Mar 13, 2012
Even if true Vendi, good luck in getting any carbon taxes, new moratoriums on drilling, mandates for hybrids, preventing new refineries from getting built etc etc.

In the end money is a better tool of persuasion than a gun. If you honestly want people to change their ways you're going to ACTUALLY have to give them an alternative to living like serfs or dying of starvation....no really....


.....Really?
So the whole do the right thing because it's the right thing won't work....
I guess not when the society you are trying to convince has it's economic foundation rooted in mass production and consumption.
So a healthy economy leads to more people willing to recognize that it is and has been creating a problem, and a dead economy solves the problem...for anyone left alive after the mayhem a dying economy would insight.....you may have been right about that whole war thing MM. TO CHINA!
Kinedryl
1.4 / 5 (10) Mar 13, 2012
IMO the global warming is of geothermal origin outside of solar system - the acceleration of decay of radioactive elements at the marine water with neutrinos from dark matter cloud passing the solar system. The people account to droughts with aerosols, rather than to temperature increasing with greenhouse gases.
The symptomatic is, the AGW fighters never promote cold fusion research as a solution of environmental crisis - they do promote alternative technologies for the sake of their employments (biofuels, solar cells, etc.) These "green technologies" are material hungry, environmentally unfriendly (biofuels, wind plants) and of low energetic efficiency. They increase the dependence on rare earth metals, indium and similar materials, the source of which face depletion in the same way, like the sources of fossil fuels, so that they cannot be considered as a sustainable solution of energetic and environmental crisis.
dogbert
2.3 / 5 (19) Mar 13, 2012
People don't accept AGW because it is a use of pseudo science to obtain a socialist political agenda.

rubberman
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 13, 2012
Kinedryl...the only cold fusion (name changed to LENR) to make any waves lately is Rossi and the E-cat. I have subscibed to the news letter, it appears more fraudulant in nature every issue I receive. He talks vaguely of customers (unnamed every time) and effiency breakthroughs regarding various sized units, however the current "breakthroughs" fail to achieve his initial claimed efficiency....as revolutionary as it would be if it he was on the level, my opinion is that he isn't.....
Modernmystic
2.8 / 5 (13) Mar 13, 2012
"In the end money is a better tool of persuasion than a gun." - Modern

Then you agree with Conservative Economists who have promoted those taxes.


No, I agree with the industrialists who want to build more nuclear power plants, make hybrids cheaper than regular cars, put up wind farms that actually turn a profit, etc etc...

Taxes are a gun in disguise...
Vendicar_Decarian
3.5 / 5 (8) Mar 13, 2012
Yup, it's geothermal energy being transmitted to earth by moon men from the planet mongo.

"IMO the global warming is of geothermal origin outside of solar system" - KineTard
Vendicar_Decarian
2.8 / 5 (11) Mar 13, 2012
I agree with the industrialists who want to build more nuclear power plants in Iran.

Guns are a tax in disguise....
rubberman
2.7 / 5 (14) Mar 13, 2012
People don't accept AGW because it is a use of pseudo science to obtain a socialist political agenda.


Do you know what 'AGW' stands for? It is a state, not a science. For example: "The current state of global warming has been greatly enhanced by the activities of man, hence we can refer to this current state as Anthropogenic global warming". Your political perspective means nothing and labelling it as socialist is simply your excuse to do nothing.
Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (8) Mar 13, 2012
Yup. That is what many anti-science fools believe because the unemployment rate is high.

One wonders what other scientific reality they might deny because they have a wooden kitchen table, or because they have chicken for dinner.

"People don't accept AGW because it is a use of pseudo science to obtain a socialist political agenda." - DogTard
Kinedryl
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 13, 2012
the only cold fusion ... to make any waves lately is Rossi and the E-cat.
This is just a mistake, because cold fusion today is 30.000 publications, Andrea Rossi never published anything about it.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (17) Mar 13, 2012
That's the conundrum for socialists.
Cheap energy begets prosperity which creates the wealth needed to have clean cheap energy. And prosperity means more individual liberty and less need for socialists.
Artificially increase the cost of energy, prosperity declines making more dependent upon the socialists.
rubberman
2.5 / 5 (8) Mar 13, 2012
the only cold fusion ... to make any waves lately is Rossi and the E-cat.
This is just a mistake, because cold fusion today is http://lenr-canr.org/, Andrea Rossi never published anything about it.


I said lately K, your link "30 000 publications" listed 2 articles off the top, one 2004, one from 2009, the articles to the right of the page you linked which were current, referenced Rossi. The only mention of an available technology was Rossi's, where Duncan says he is buying 2, one to use and one to dismantle to see if he can figure it out...
Noumenon
2.4 / 5 (22) Mar 13, 2012
The far left progressive liberals want to use AGW as a foot-in-the-door, to promote their political perspective, which means increased government control, and less personal liberty. This means they must exaggerate an effect of using carbon based energy as a "cataclysmic crisis" to the environment.

The world economies will continue to use the cheapest energy source available, despite all the speculative predictions and propaganda from the left. Artificially causing oil prices to rise is far more dangerous to the world than AGW.

If the existing economy is not ready to accept some particular alternative, it will not be adopted, period. This is simply reality, something naive liberals will never get.
Noumenon
2.3 / 5 (18) Mar 13, 2012
....Besides the social engineers, communists and socialists, even the bioengineers are licking their chops,....

"There is ample evidence that climate change is likely to affect adversely many aspects of life for all people around the world, and that existing solutions such as geoengineering might be too risky and ordinary behavioural and market solutions might not be sufficient to mitigate climate change. In this paper, we consider a new kind of solution to climate change, what we call human engineering, which involves biomedical modifications of humans..."

http://www.smatth...ange.pdf

These far left progressives are far more of a threat than climate change. Their naivete and pure stupidity is dangerous to economies and human dignity.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 13, 2012
All things are possible at Zombo.com

http://zombo.com/

"Cheap energy begets prosperity which creates the wealth needed to have clean cheap energy." - RyggTard
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (10) Mar 13, 2012
I thank NumenTard for so clearly stating that his dishonest denial that the globe is warming, is based entirely on his conservative political ideology.

"The far left progressive liberals want to use AGW as a foot-in-the-door, to promote their political perspective, which means increased government control, and less personal liberty." - NumenTard

I have never encountered an American Conservative who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
Callippo
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 13, 2012
..your link "30 000 publications" listed 2 articles off the top, one 2004, one from 2009....
List of articles about cold fusion of hydrogen at nickel http://newenergyt...rs.shtml http://www.sede.e...taly.pdf

List of replicators of cold fusion of hydrogen at nickel http://nickelpowe...30-2011/
Vendicar_Decarian
2.8 / 5 (11) Mar 13, 2012
From NumenTards reference

"Anthropogenic climate change is arguably one of the biggest problems that confront us today. There is ample evidence that climate change is likely to affect adversely many aspects of life for all people around the world, and that existing solutions such as geoengineering might be too risky and ordinary behavioural and market solutions might not be sufficient to mitigate climate change. In this paper, we consider a new kind of solution to climate change, what we call human engineering, which involves biomedical modifications of humans so that they can mitigate and/or adapt to climate change"

So NumenTard would rather genetically modify the human species than establish and environmentally sustainable economy.

Again.. I refer to Zombo.com...

http://zombo.com/
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (9) Mar 13, 2012
I don't see any in your list that are published in reputable, peer reviewed scientific journals.

New Energy Times isn't a respected journal.

"List of articles about cold fusion of hydrogen at nickel" - Callippo
dutchman
3.8 / 5 (10) Mar 13, 2012
It's funny, the Republicans came up with "Cap snd Trade" as a "free-market" approach to reduce carbon emission. Once again, just like with the new Health-Care program, essentially based on a Republican counter-proposal to the "Single-Payer" plan, the Republicans are now vehemently opposed to it.

Is it based on any real science? Hardly. Its is all bottom-line (corporate profit) driven bolderdash.

I am so glad I am not a young kid anymore, if I were I'd be REALLY upset with these corporate interests for stealing my future!
Vendicar_Decarian
2.5 / 5 (8) Mar 13, 2012
Exactly. Republicans came up with the "free market" solution and now proclaim that it is socialism designed to destroy America.

"It's funny, the Republicans came up with "Cap snd Trade" as a "free-market" approach to reduce carbon emission." - Dutchman

I have never encountered a Republican who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
gregor1
1.7 / 5 (11) Mar 13, 2012
Anthropogenic global warming is merely an hypothesis that so many people see as a great way to make megabucks out of that it's become untestable. Environmental activists have made so much money that they don't want it tested at any costs and are willing to destroy the environment to keep the gravy train rolling on. Ironically,the biggest threat to the environment is a decline in the economy.
Moreover, people without jobs have the time to search the internet and asses the data for themselves. Unfortunately if there really is a problem with the climate we may never get through the clouds of confusion created by those with vested interest to find out exactly what it is
Vendicar_Decarian
4.2 / 5 (6) Mar 13, 2012
Yes, in exactly the same way that the cause of the seasons is a hypothesis, the theory of gravity is a hypothesis, and the existence of electrons is a hypothesis.

But of course that is only a layman's comprehension of science. In science, these things are known as exceptinally well established theories.

To the thinking lay person they are known as facts.

"Anthropogenic global warming is merely an hypothesis" - Gregor1

"Environmental activists have made so much money" - GregorTard

How much GregorTard? Provide some verifiable numbers.

And then provide some verifiable numbers to how it was spent.

"Environmental activists... are willing to destroy the environment to keep the gravy train rolling" - GregorTard

Lets all play the baseless accusations game.

GregorTard needs to stop molesting his children and get off of welfare and the drugs.

Vendicar_Decarian
3.4 / 5 (5) Mar 13, 2012
A fine source of information for Gregor, presented in a form in which even children can comprehend.

http://www.yalecl...te-wars/

http://www.youtub...nman3610

"Moreover, people without jobs have the time to search the internet and asses the data for themselves." - GregorTard
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (14) Mar 14, 2012
Yes, in exactly the same way that the cause of the seasons is a hypothesis, the theory of gravity is a hypothesis, and the existence of electrons is a hypothesis.


Except, those hypothesis have been empiracally verified countless times through future predictions, while cataclysmic AGW has not been verified once, and is pure speculation as to the extent of the effect on the global climate, and the precision in tenths of one degree over decades is fraudulent. There is no empiracally verified justification for surmising that humans have such an accurate handle on global temperature.

I think the basic science is correct, and that it's a good thing to develop alternative energy sources but only in accord with existing free market forces. The reality is that we have to continue to burn oil for some time to come, and just because one is able to recognize this reality does not make them a "denier" or anti-science, yet all those opposed to "progressive" solutions are labeled as such.
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (13) Mar 14, 2012
From Noumenon reference

"Anthropogenic climate change is arguably one of the biggest problems that confront us today. There is ample evidence that climate change is likely to affect adversely many aspects of life for all people around the world, and that existing solutions such as geoengineering might be too risky and ordinary behavioural and market solutions might not be sufficient to mitigate climate change. In this paper, we consider a new kind of solution to climate change, what we call human engineering, which involves biomedical modifications of humans so that they can mitigate and/or adapt to climate change"

So Noumenon would rather genetically modify the human species than establish and environmentally sustainable economy.


You seem to suffer from reading comprehension. That was obviously an example of a far leftist social engineering dolt and the extent that such big government socialism can go.

Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (13) Mar 14, 2012
So the whole do the right thing because it's the right thing won't work....

Only a profoundly naive p.e.t.a type liberal would ever think that people would voluntarily use less carbon based energy just because people get the word out. Not reality.
I guess not when the society you are trying to convince has it's economic foundation rooted in mass production and consumption.

Humans are intrinsically egoistic in nature, even if being suppressed by communism, which is why in such societies force is required, and their is typically human rights violations and poor standards of living.

Freedom of choice and survival of the fittest is the most natural state of man, and the most powerful force available to societies. The great wealth created in western countries has improved life expectancy around the world.

Production and consumption are NOT problems that need to be regulated.

The left are readily for abortion, but feign concern over future unborn generations.
bluehigh
2.3 / 5 (12) Mar 14, 2012
Freedom of choice and survival of the fittest is the most natural state of man, and the most powerful force available to societies.
- some ignorant twit

The attributes you describe are for wild animals. It is structured associations for mutual benefit, such as community co-operation, that bring the benefits we enjoy in advanced social civilization. Production and consumption ARE PRIMARY issues that need to be organised (regulated) for a successful society.

Otherwise, I just get a bigger gun than you and do whatever I want and we descend into violence and chaos. Oh I see ... sadly you're an American conservative that enjoys the benefits of a 400 year old war economy. Your time is almost up.
bluehigh
1 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2012
tell ya what ... i got all the food and bigger guns. stuff the ethics. ya wanna eat tonight then i wanna fuck you and ya girl then kill those filthy ratbag kids spreading your useless DNA. Survival of the fittest. You make yourself a dumb animal.

Was that clearer or a bit extreme?
rubberman
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2012
Freedom of choice and survival of the fittest is the most natural state of man, and the most powerful force available to societies.
- some ignorant twit

The attributes you describe are for wild animals. It is structured associations for mutual benefit, such as community co-operation, that bring the benefits we enjoy in advanced social civilization. Production and consumption ARE PRIMARY issues that need to be organised (regulated) for a successful society.

Otherwise, I just get a bigger gun than you and do whatever I want and we descend into violence and chaos. Oh I see ... sadly you're an American conservative that enjoys the benefits of a 400 year old war economy. Your time is almost up.


BINGO!

There were 4450 federal laws at the end of 2007, plus the state and municipal laws....how about restriced freedom of choice?
Chuck Liddell vs. Noumenon for the last can of Ravioli on earth = survival of the fittest....enjoy your pasta Chuck
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2012
"There were 4450 federal laws at the end of 2007.." - Rubberman

Although they are called laws, really what they are, are regulations. Legitimate laws are those "regulations" that are created through the courts.

In any case, federal regulations can be retired.
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (14) Mar 14, 2012
The attributes you describe are for wild animals. It is structured associations for mutual benefit, such as community co-operation, that bring the benefits we enjoy in advanced social civilization. Production and consumption ARE PRIMARY issues that need to be organised (regulated) for a successful society.


The USA is not nor has ever been, nor will ever be, a socialist country. This means that the greatest of economies the world has ever seen, developed from the basic principals and nature of man I outlined above, and NOT from government control over the masses.

Of course, it benefits man to enter into a society, and give up some freedoms so that property and life can be protected by government from those that are anti-society. You're taking my statement way off into space.

I'm just responding to the commie above, that competition, freedom of choice, consumption and production, and the egoistic individualism, are essential to capitalism, and the results are great..
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (14) Mar 14, 2012
,... Man has not evolved to the extent that he is no longer effected by the basic scientific principals of evolution; competition and survival of the fittest. I just telling you how it IS, while you're reacting emotionally because it doesn't fit with your adolescent idealism.

Production and consumption are absolutely necessary for the good of mankind, and the idiotic liberal notion that it should be regulated and limited by obviously incompetent governments, will prevent innovations from being adopted by the market place, ... and shows the left have no solutions. Welcome to reality.
mtc123
2 / 5 (8) Mar 14, 2012
Thug socialist monkeys use fear to extract money from taxpayers.
Acid rain, ozone depletion, global baking.
All different flavors of crap science.
How many times do you have to flush your Al Gore toilet when you take a crap? W lives in a truly energy efficient home. Al Gore and Streisand live in multi-chimney sprawling monuments to liberal excess.
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (13) Mar 14, 2012
AlGore's mansions use some 20 times the energy of an average home. This shows that he is motivated by freedom of choice and egoism, and that he is human, and not a robot as once thought.
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (14) Mar 14, 2012
tell ya what ... i got all the food and bigger guns. stuff the ethics. ya wanna eat tonight then i wanna fuck you and ya girl then kill those filthy ratbag kids spreading your useless DNA. Survival of the fittest. You make yourself a dumb animal.

Was that clearer or a bit extreme?


No, just absurd and emotional irrationality. I never mentioned thunderdome or the jungle.

I'm telling you how capitalism works in practice, ya twit; businesses, investors, and employees must compete against each other and offer value (unless they work for the gov or are a gov entity), or they will not succeed in comparison with those that do offer value and quality. The reason that this is a good thing should be clear.

The notion that energy use, consumption and production should be limited in any way is pure liberal stupidity, and is ass backwards wrt progress. The survival of the human species is not worth it if the very nature of man must be oppressed to do so.
ryggesogn2
2.4 / 5 (12) Mar 14, 2012
I just get a bigger gun than you and do whatever I want

If you survive.
The US 'wild' west was not really that wild.
Ever hear of Northfield, MN? The Cole-Younger gang planned to rob the bank. The townsfolk had other ideas and shot them.
The only way your 'bigger gun' concept can work is if you first disarm your victims as all socialists attempt to do before taking over.
kaasinees
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2012
I just get a bigger gun than you and do whatever I want

If you survive.
The US 'wild' west was not really that wild.
Ever hear of Northfield, MN? The Cole-Younger gang planned to rob the bank. The townsfolk had other ideas and shot them.
The only way your 'bigger gun' concept can work is if you first disarm your victims as all socialists attempt to do before taking over.

Being a socialist i believe that people have the right to own arms, also everyone should have combat and gun training.
But one must be declared sane and capable first, through medical tests, not shrink tests.

So where do u get the idea from that all socialists want to take your guns and 'money'?
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (8) Mar 14, 2012
So where do u get the idea from that all socialists want to take your guns and 'money'?

History (NAZI Germany for example) and the 'liberal' opposition to the 2nd Amendment in the US, UK gun laws, Canada gun laws, Australian gun bans, etc.
kaasinees
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2012
So where do u get the idea from that all socialists want to take your guns and 'money'?

History (NAZI Germany for example) and the 'liberal' opposition to the 2nd Amendment in the US, UK gun laws, Canada gun laws, Australian gun bans, etc.

the national socialists were a weird case because they were extremely fascist and right-winged.
Socialisms is in the left spectrum but it is about social sciences mostly, there is no reason they cant call themselves socialists and be fascists. In my country there is some kind of liberty party but they are religious, which is very contradictory, that's politics mostly.

Also left vs right is a matter of definition, and its created to divide, nothing else.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (10) Mar 14, 2012
The Right and Left are clearly and unambiguously defined, it's just that they are relative to country and era.

Socialists (social engineering) use valid scientific studies to implement regulations and social controls to solve every little "problem" they deem necessary at the cost of freedom. So, a proper study showing that crime is not reduced with gun rights in place (a recent conclusion in the USA), would lead such socialists NOT to ban guns, presumably. Here in the USA, we have mush-headed liberals who are not really professional socialisst, so they would ban guns anyway. Ironic.

The imperfections of society, even preventable deaths, etc, are the cost of freedom, and well worth it. What social engineers and their statatician side-kicks don't understand is that there is no utopian society and even if there was, it is not worth the costs.
ryggesogn2
1.9 / 5 (9) Mar 14, 2012
the national socialists were a weird case because they were extremely fascist and right-winged.

But they were socialists.
Socialism is quite simple, state control of property.
It matters not how the state is formed or organized, if the govt controls private property, that is socialism.
Socialism is entirely about central planning, central ownership, central control. Socialism is anti-individual, anti-emergence, anti-nature in that it is an unnatural system.
kaasinees
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2012
Socialism is quite simple, state control of property.

If state control of property is proven to be beneficial for the inhabitants of the country then yes it is socialist. If however it is been proven to be not beneficial for the inhabitants of the country than it becomes fascisms. It largely depends on how it is controlled. In current state of property control in the western world I would say it is extremely fascist not socialist.

Socialism is quite simple, state control of property.

That is not the philosophy of socialism. It can be a result of this philosophy in some cases though.
If you want to know the true meaning behind socialism you will need to learn about the philosophers behind it.
In many cases socialists are blamed for control, but that is not true in most cases it is fascists.
The gun law for example is socialist, make rules so that insane people or convicted people are never allowed to carry a gun. But the sane and capable ones can.
RitchieGuy
1.4 / 5 (9) Mar 15, 2012
The AGWite saga is never an altruistic endeavour. If it were, they would be able to convince more people to not pollute the planet in any way. But the topic of a transferring of money always comes up, and that's the part that stinks so bad. AGWites are the moral equivalent of the Koch Brothers and George Soros when it comes to wanting money exchanged to buy Catholic church type "indulgences". instead of just promoting common sense behavior.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (2) Mar 16, 2012
"tell ya what ... i got all the food and bigger guns. stuff the ethics. ya wanna eat tonight then i wanna fuck you and ya girl then kill those filthy ratbag kids spreading your useless DNA." - BlueHigh

Sounds like a worthy plan.

Kaplah!
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (3) Mar 16, 2012
"The USA is not nor has ever been, nor will ever be, a socialist country." - NeumenTard

NumenTard and his kind have vowed to destroy their own country rather than see it saved by government plan - which is what they call Socialism.

I have no complaints regarding their treason as long as the American people remain complicit with that treason through choice or ignorance.

Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (3) Mar 16, 2012
"Man has not evolved to the extent that he is no longer effected by the basic scientific principals of evolution; competition and survival of the fittest." - NumenTard

It would appear that the Socialists of China and the other Pacific Rim nations are the "fittest".

Perhaps NumenTard intended to say "survival of the fattest", when he was referring to Americans.
Vendicar_Decarian
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 16, 2012
Anti-science runs deep in the Republican party.

"Acid rain, ozone depletion, global baking.
All different flavors of crap science." - mtcTard
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Mar 16, 2012
fascist not socialist.

Fascism IS socialism.
The STATE controls the property, PERIOD.
The end results are always the same, economic decline.
rubberman
4 / 5 (4) Mar 16, 2012
"tell ya what ... i got all the food and bigger guns. stuff the ethics. ya wanna eat tonight then i wanna fuck you and ya girl then kill those filthy ratbag kids spreading your useless DNA." - BlueHigh

Sounds like a worthy plan.

Kaplah!


I will sharpen my Batleth!
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (2) Mar 16, 2012
Why do you keep lying Libertarian Boy?

"Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

That describes the U.S. Republican party almost exactly.

"Fascism IS socialism." - RyggTard

I have never encountered a Libertarian/Randite who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2012
Noumenon and his kind have vowed to destroy their own country rather than see it saved by government plan - which is what they call Socialism. - Dipstick trol


LOL, did the government plan on being 15 trillion in debt? Did the government plan on a sub-par school system despite a near infinite amount spent? Did Detriot and California plan on being nearly bankrupt, both run by big gov leftist? Did Greece plan on defaulting on their debt and need emergency austerity? Big "government plan" only results in incompetence every time.

The great American economy wasn't an orchestrated plan and product of the government, only to the extent of staying out of the way as much as possible. This is just a fact.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (3) Mar 16, 2012
"LOL, did the government plan on being 15 trillion in debt?" - NumenTard

Yes.... Republicans have worked for years to bankrupt the country.

The plan is known as "starve the beast".

http://en.wikiped...he_beast

"For more than 30 years, since the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980, some Republicans have pursued a theory called Starve the Beast.
STB holds that you dont cut government spending in order to lower taxes; you lower taxes in order to cut government spending. The deprivation of revenue will force the government to get smaller." - Bloomberg news
Callippo
1 / 5 (3) Mar 16, 2012
hat describes the U.S. Republican party almost exactly. I have never encountered a Libertarian/Randite who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
Aren't liberals considered an opposition to republicans and conservatives? Sometimes you're sounding pretty confused (diplomatically speaking) - you're attacking the republican party while using a vocabulary, which is apparently antiliberal, if not conservative.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (10) Mar 16, 2012
hat describes the U.S. Republican party almost exactly. I have never encountered a Libertarian/Randite who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
Aren't liberals considered an opposition to republicans and conservatives? Sometimes you're sounding pretty confused (diplomatically speaking) - you're attacking the republican party while using a vocabulary, which is apparently antiliberal, if not conservative.


Libertarians and liberals are not the same in some respects, especially wrt the role of gov,... but you're correct that VD is confused, just generally.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2012
""Why don't you go to the Dean's office and
ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a
2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair
and equal distribution of GPA.'

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back,
'That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my
grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work!
Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my
tail off!'

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican party.'"
http://patriotupd...-immoral
Noumenon
1 / 5 (10) Mar 16, 2012
"LOL, did the government plan on being 15 trillion in debt?" - Noumenon

Yes.... Republicans have worked for years to bankrupt the country.
STB holds that you dont cut government spending in order to lower taxes; you lower taxes in order to cut government spending. The deprivation of revenue will force the government to get smaller." - Bloomberg news


Actually in the right circumstances, lowering taxes can increase government revenue, by allowing the free market to create more taxable wealth. The free market creates wealth, not the gov, which only spends money.

Obama has added five trillion to the debt. Liberalism and big gov threatens to bankrupt the nation. Government never does anything efficient nor with quality, because it is the only institution that does not need to compete and so constantly improve to exist. In gov there is no one "behind the counter" making a profit, thus it is no wonder there is a lack of motive to be efficient.

Only the inept rely on gov.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2012
owering taxes can increase government revenue,

Which only encouraged Congress to spend more.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (10) Mar 16, 2012
owering taxes can increase government revenue,

Which only encouraged Congress to spend more.


I agree, the USA gov has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. The point was that Venereal_Disease dopy STD law, or whatever, doesn't hold water.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2012
Yup... Starve the beast of big government through fiscal collapse.

It's been the Libertarian plan for the last 30 years.

"Which only encouraged Congress to spend more." - RyggTard
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2012
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2012
owering taxes can increase government revenue,

Which only encouraged Congress to spend more.


I agree, the USA gov has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. The point was that Venereal_Disease dopy STD law, or whatever, doesn't hold water.

"How Spending CutsNot Higher TaxesSaved Canada
Liberals up there listened to voters, and their economy is now growing faster than ours."
""Canadians have told us that they want the deficit brought down by reducing government spending, not by raising taxes, and we agree," Mr. Martin said. "
http://online.wsj...612.html
Callippo
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2012
Obama has added five trillion to the debt.
Because of financial crisis, which republican government has started. Without at least rudimentary memory you can never understand, how the politics is working.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) Mar 17, 2012
"Its the beauty part of free-market capitalism: To successfully pursue happiness, you must help others do likewise. That simple, universal equation is the root of capitalisms essential morality and of its wonder-working power to create wealth and opportunity. If you are unable or unwilling to supply a valuable product or service or hour of labor, then you eventually will fail. "
"to the extent that some bit of Wall Street now lives in a pocket universe operating according to a different set of financial physics, it is because government has created and maintained an artificial too big to fail bubble around its largest players."
http://www.nytime...ing-nice
Why aren't the socialists attacking the root cause, govt power? Because they want that govt power.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (7) Mar 17, 2012
Obama has added five trillion to the debt.
Because of financial crisis, which republican government has started. Without at least rudimentary memory you can never understand, how the politics is working.


You're clueless. The financial crisis occurred because banks were pressured to give loans to unqualified borrowers, by de facto democratic policies, and the existence of Fannie mae caused a proverbial carpet in in which to sweep sun-prime mortgages.

..........

The National Debt is exploding under liberal big gov spender Obama
Vendicar_Decarian
4 / 5 (4) Mar 17, 2012
What RyggTard would rather not mention is that taxes were increased by the Canadian Liberals, and the combination of tax increases and deficit reductions were put to reducing the Canadian debt.

RyggTard also would rather not mention that the large Canadian Debt was created almost exclusively by the Conservative Mulroney government - a government that followed in the disastrous and fiscally insane economic policies of the Reagan government.

Canadians were smart enough to throw that government out on it's ass and elect a Liberal government that restored fiscal sanity.

That was not the case in America which decided to re-elect the Conservative traitors and fools that had long planned to destroy their own nation through a planned policy of national bankruptcy.


"How Spending CutsNot Higher TaxesSaved Canada" - RyggTa
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2012
It is interesting to note that while the Canadian Liberals were saving their country with rational economic policies, the few Canadian Conservatives that survived the Liberal route spent their years in exile whining that the budget surplus that was being used by the Liberals to pay down the national debt, was actually stolen money that should be returned to the Canadian people, without paying down the debt.

Of course, this is the same fiscal treason that U.S. Conservatives have successfully used to bankrupt their own nation.

The difference is that Canadians were smart enough to remove the Conservative traitors from power. The same is not true in the U.S. where George Bush Jr. was appointed president and who then through incompetence and failed ideology, then embarked on various programs that drove the American national economy into the ground.

Canadians on the other hand benefited greatly due to the rational policies of their Liberal Government, particularly in the area of banking.
Vendicar_Decarian
4 / 5 (4) Mar 17, 2012
And now the Conservative American Lie.

"The financial crisis occurred because banks were pressured to give loans to unqualified borrowers" - NumenTard

In fact, no such pressure existed, and in fact the housing bubble was purposely inflated by a personal protege and disciple of Ayn Rand - Alan Greenspan - who has publicly admitted that he believed the fundamental tenant of her ideology that people and corporations would never act against their own self interest, and was astonished when the banking industry did just that.

Not only was the 1998 near depression Bush's fault, it was absolutely and unquestionably the result of the application of Libertarian/Randite ideology to the real world.

http://www.russel...iot.html

Libertarian/Randite Greenspan admits free market has foundered

http://www.ajc.co...DOT.html
Vendicar_Decarian
4 / 5 (4) Mar 17, 2012
Data from the 1994 budget rather nicely illustrates the increase in debt as a percentage of GDP.

It rises from just under 40% in 1984 to almost 70% in 1993. This was around the time the Wall Street Journal was calling Canada a basketcase.

Now, who was prime minister while the debt was going from 40% to 70%? That would be Conservative Brian Mulroney.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (7) Mar 17, 2012
...that people and corporations would never act against their own self interest, and was astonished when the banking industry did just that.


This is patently false. As individuals, the originators of the loans acted in their own best interest, because they could sell the sub-prime mortgages as securities, only having to guarantee them for a short time.

My contention is that the government created the conditions in which this bubble occurred; mortgage securities, lowered lending standards, and holding interest rates to low for too long. If the government had never been involved this would not have been as devastating.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (7) Mar 17, 2012
....
The Governmental Department of Housing and Urban Development invented mortgage-backed securities, ...loan originators no longer had to hold the loan, they only had to guarantee it for a short time, thus relieving them of accountability.

The Governmental Community Reinvestment Act was modified to compel banks to increase their mortgage lending to lower-income households. To meet the new requirements, banks relaxed their mortgage lending standards.

The Governmental Department of Housing and Urban Development began to increase the percentage of mortgage loans to lower-income households that Fannie and Freddie were required to hold in their portfolios. This caused Fannie and Freddie to relax the standards that mortgages had to meet to be classified as conforming and thus eligible for purchase by Fannie and Freddie. Down payment requirements and income requirements were reduced.

IOW do gooder democrats trying help people get houses, while ignoring or being clueless of market forces.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (4) Mar 17, 2012
OCT 97 Wachovia press release:
"First Union Capital Markets Corp. and Bear, Stearns & Co. Inc. have priced a $384.6 million offering of securities backed by Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) loans - marking the industry's first public securitization of CRA loans."
"The $384.6 million in senior certificates are guaranteed by Freddie Mac and have an implied "AAA" rating."
"We believe there is opportunity to expand our CRA loan securitization capabilities to other companies in the market.""
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2012
"This is patently false." - NumenTard

Yes, your comments are patently false. Nothing new there.

Greenspan and the ideological failure of Randism/Libertarianism/FreeMarketism.

"... almost three years after stepping down as chairman of the Federal Reserve, a humbled Mr. Greenspan admitted that he had put too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending."

You had the authority to prevent irresponsible lending practices that led to the subprime mortgage crisis. You were advised to do so by many others, said Representative Henry A. Waxman of California, chairman of the committee. Do you feel that your ideology pushed you to make decisions that you wish you had not made?

Mr. Greenspan conceded: Yes, Ive found a flaw. I dont know how significant or permanent it is. But Ive been very distressed by that fact.

http://www.nytime...nel.html
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2012
"Randite Alan Greenspan was a disaster" = Libertarian Ron Paul

http://www.realcl...ter.html
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2012
Meaningless and pointless.

"OCT 97 Wachovia press release:" - RyggTard

On the other hand we have...

Ayn Rand disciple - Alan Greenspan: "U.S. Debt 'Scared' Me Into Supporting Tax Increases"

http://www.huffin...879.html

Ayn Rand disciple Greenspan Admits Philisophical Error in "The Warning"

http://www.youtub...=related

Poor RyggTard. How do you RandDroids manage to feed yoursleves?

ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 17, 2012
One motivation for such a press release. Premission from the govt to expand.
"The Board has carefully considered comments received on the proposal, the performance records of First Union and Signet under the CRA, and the effect of the proposal on the convenience and needs of the community. "
http://www.federa...9971014/
For those who say the Federal Reserve is not a part of the gov, note their internet domain, .gov.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2012
The links above in which Randite/Libertarian Alan Greenspan admits that his political and economic ideology is a failure and a fraud should tell Randite/Libertarin's like RyggTard that their ideology is a fraud.

"One motivation for such a press release." - RyggTard

But the commission of fraud is what RyggTard is all about.

This goes for Ayn Rand as well, as proven by her reliance on government welfare programs as she lay dying from smoking induced cancer. A form of lung cancer that she - a heavy smoker - denied could be caused by smoking.

And where was her good friend and probable lover Alan Greenspan while she lay dying in her bed?

Offering assistance to her? Of course not.

Libertarian/Randite Greenspan kept her on the public dime.

scum.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2012
Can you explain to us RyggTard why your favorite news channel repeatedly resorts to lying like this?

http://www.youtub...=related
jBal
4 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2012
Ok a bit of basic info CO2 has been at stable levels for about 800000 years or perhaps 8 million. Now if we had NO CO2 we would be about -15c average temp on earth because of the sudden rise from late 1880 to now the effect is going to be higher highs and lower lows ie pressure gradients the result of which is high rainfall low rainfall higher temps and lower temps. We are only here becuase of the fact the earth was stable for a long time if any person doubts the fact that a small shift in the retained heat we receive is not going to have an effect perhaps he/she is deluded plese do not think we ie humans are not haveing an effect i am afraid we are and yss it will not harm us but i so feel sorry for our gandkids kids.
I think it is time for us to honestly think about where the poor buggers who come after us are headed
jbal an aussie
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2012
"I think it is time for us to honestly think about where the poor" - iBal

Those who are impeding the effort to address the problem are already guilty of crimes against humanity and nature.

I believe the punishment should fit the crime.
Tausch
1 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2012
Change you can believe in.
History recorded the above as a political slogan and ploy.
The future will supersede this past political ploy with climate.

Isn't that ironic?
Is that saying a copyright infringement like happy birthday?
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2012
"OCT 97 Wachovia press release:" - RyggTard

On the other hand we have...

Ayn Rand disciple - Alan Greenspan: "U.S. Debt 'Scared' Me Into Supporting Tax Increases"

http://www.huffin...879.html

Ayn Rand disciple Greenspan Admits Philisophical Error in "The Warning"

http://www.youtub...=related

Poor RyggTard. How do you RandDroids manage to feed yoursleves?
p1ll
3 / 5 (6) Mar 18, 2012
Ahh vendicar, it doesnt suprise me to see your "tard" commentary all over the pages of physorg. Don't you have a life? Your use of the word Tard is childish and hey it may have been funny a couple times, but you are STILL 'Tarding anyone who thinks differently?

I digress..

OK all you armchair scientists, let me point out that petroleum is responsible for every technological advance we enjoy today. Maybe if we use it a little longer it may fuel the way to a greener future. Without petroleum we would have sh*t. SH*T.

What about plastics and all the other things petroleum provides? Where is your alternative source?

And if I'm not mistaken, there is nothing more important than humanity. no, not whales, not bears,. HUMANS. F*ck solar, F*ck wind, go power your future on summer breezes and sunshine and see how far you go.

We are not going back to the stone age because your little computer models say doomsday is coming.

The next ice age will take care of any warming caused by us humans.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (8) Mar 18, 2012
Yes, vendicar has proven himself to be a mental child for over a decade on the Internet, but far leftist are not men in any case.

I constantly get rated down for simply pointing out the reality that the world economies has oil running through it's veins and no other alternative will replace the volume of oil being used, as of right now. This means we must continue full bore in using oil, and no novelty president will change that by gambling away tax payers money in failed green industries, no redistribution of wealth will work, nor social engineering, nor artificially causing oil prices to rise by preventing use of existent oil, nor control of energy use. As even Venitard can see there is no drastic changes being made in the use of oil, nor gov control of energy use.
Callippo
1 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2012
The financial crisis occurred because banks were pressured to give loans to unqualified borrowers, by de facto democratic policies
Nope, the financial crisis started because of jump of crude oil prices and it jumped so because of huge consumption of oil during lost Iraq war. After all, the oil crisis at the beginning of 70's has started from the same reason: the lost Vietnam war. The wars are simply expensive stuff for whole global economy, they're just helping the producers of oil, like the Bush family. http://dollardaze...ices.gif What I cannot understand is, the people cannot understand these trivial connections. They're confused all the time and as the result they're fighting against nonexisting or wrong enemy. I'm not supporter of bankers in any way, but they didn't started financial crisis.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (7) Mar 18, 2012
,...
It will require decades and decades because the use of oil is an economic evolutionary fact, not an a-priori 'plan of the gov', thus the gov can't plan a-priori the futures energy,... instead it must evolve itself of it's own volition.

If gov was competent in planning anything ahead of time, it wouldn't be 15 trillion in debt & would succeed at something rather than nothing.
Noumenon
1.5 / 5 (8) Mar 18, 2012
The financial crisis occurred because banks were pressured to give loans to unqualified borrowers, by de facto democratic policies
Nope, the financial crisis started because of jump of crude oil prices and it jumped so because of huge consumption of oil during lost Iraq war. After all, the oil crisis at the beginning of 70's has started from the same reason: the lost Vietnam war. The wars are simply expensive stuff for whole global economy, they're just helping the producers of oil, like the Bush family. http://dollardaze...ices.gif What I cannot understand is, the people cannot understand these trivial connections. They're confused all the time and as the result they're fighting against nonexisting or wrong enemy. I'm not supporter of bankers in any way, but they didn't started financial crisis.


In the USA everyone knows that the financial crisis started because of the housing bubble, not that there were no other causes.
Callippo
1 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2012
because the use of oil is an economic evolutionary fact, not an a-priori 'plan of the gov'
This is wrong opinion too. The prices of oil don't follow the global economy, they're driving it instead. It's because the price of oil has no reason to raise, until all oil supplies aren't depleted. In addition, the companies mining oil are lying about actual state of oil resources, because it helps them to increase the mining quotas. At third, the increasing amount of oil is consumed during mining for production of oil, but because this oil is not sold, it doesn't contributes to oil price at market.

At the end of 30's the energy of one barrel of oil was sufficient for production of 230 barrels, at the end of 70's it was only 15 barrels and not it's only 5 to 7 barrels. But the price of oil didn't increase so rapidly - how is it possible? Just re-read my post once again.
Callippo
1 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2012
In the USA everyone knows that the financial crisis started because of the housing bubble, not that there were no other causes.
The people outside of USA knows very well, it's just a USA propaganda, covering the cost of (essentially unsuccesful) Iraq war and the sensitivity of the USA economy to the cost of crude oil. You can believe me, you're living in alternate reality. The housing bubble would never pop, if the price of crude wouldn't raise above 200 dollars per barrel. This housing bubble just popped, because it was most fringe part of economy, heavily dependent on Ponzi scheme of investors. You can believe me, I do understand a much more things deeper, than just aether theory, because I'm informed better about global connections.
Callippo
1 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2012
Please don't expect in any way, if we will not switch to the cold fusion, then the global economy will somehow heal itself. It's virtually impossible: if we would ignore it, then the things will just get worse and worse. It's the energy conservation law, which is driving the global economy and you cannot beat the physics.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2012
The links above in which Randite/Libertarian Alan Greenspan admits that his political and economic ideology is a failure and a fraud should tell Randite/Libertarin's like RyggTard that their ideology is a fraud. - VeniTard


Your posts demonstrate that you fail to understand Rands basic philosophy. Greenspan was an employee of the government, as already pointed out, and as such did not have the power to implement Rands philosophy. If he could he would have nullified the Governmental Community Reinvestment Act, and dissolved the Governmental Department of Housing and Urban Development, Fannie mae, and Freddie mac, and such other gov housing entities, because they work AGAINST the market.
Noumenon
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2012
....because the use of oil is an economic evolutionary fact, not an a-priori 'plan of the gov'

This is wrong opinion too. The prices of oil don't follow the global economy, they're driving it instead. It's because the price of oil has no reason to raise, until all oil supplies aren't depleted. In addition, the companies mining oil are lying about actual state of oil resources, because it helps them to increase the mining quotas. At third, the increasing amount of oil is consumed during mining for production of oil, but because this oil is not sold, it doesn't contributes to oil price at market.


You have misunderstood my post, I did not mention oil prices. I was saying that industrialization evolved on the use of oil. One can no more swap oil for another source as an a-priori plan, than one can remove the blood circulation system of a person,.... it is too ingrained into the economy. The world will have to evolve off of oil gradually over generations of time, not via gov
Noumenon
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2012
In the USA everyone knows that the financial crisis started because of the housing bubble, not that there were no other causes.
The people outside of USA knows very well, it's just a USA propaganda, covering the cost of (essentially unsuccesful) Iraq war and the sensitivity of the USA economy to the cost of crude oil. You can believe me, you're living in alternate reality. The housing bubble would never pop, if the price of crude wouldn't raise above 200 dollars per barrel. This housing bubble just popped, because it was most fringe part of economy, heavily dependent on Ponzi scheme of investors. You can believe me, I do understand a much more things deeper, than just aether theory, because I'm informed better about global connections.


Your knowledge seems contingent on the existence of conspiracy. In the USA the banks collapsed because of the housing bubble, which of course was enough to effect economies globally. This is not in debate.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2012
And the housing bubble was created by the Libertarian Economic ideology of the Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan - who in the above links admits to the failure of his ideology.

"In the USA everyone knows that the financial crisis started because of the housing bubble..." - NumenTard

NumenTard is incapable of learning.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2012
From his earliest days in office, Bush paired his belief that Americans do best when they own their own homes with his conviction that markets do best when left alone. Bush pushed hard to expand home ownership, especially among minority groups, an initiative that dovetailed with both his ambition to expand Republican appeal and the business interests of some of his biggest donors. But his housing policies and hands-off approach to regulation encouraged lax lending standards.

As early as 2006, top advisers to Bush dismissed warnings from people inside and outside the White House that housing prices were inflated and that a foreclosure crisis was looming. And when the economy deteriorated, Bush and his team misdiagnosed the reasons and scope of the downturn. As recently as February, for example, Bush was still calling it a "rough patch."

"There is no question we did not recognize the severity of the problems," said Al Hubbard, Bush's former chief economic adviser
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2012
Bush officials covered up Housing Bubble and Financial Crisis

http://oneutah.or...-crisis/

Bush touts his minority home ownership program.

http://www.youtub...tUq0OJ68

Bush uses taxpayer money to pay for minority housing.

http://www.youtub...Qx7sjoS8
Noumenon
1 / 5 (6) Mar 18, 2012
That is true about the Bush administration, employees of the government, but he does not represent true conservatism.

It is also true, as you apparently admit by admonishing Bush, ...that the ad-hoc implementation of policies to increase home ownership by lowering lending standards and engineering conditions counter to free market, is the primary reason for the severity of the collapse.

Bush did not invent those gov institutions that were designed to accomplish this, he merely bragged about minority home ownership increase under his watch for political reasons. He also repeatably warned of the impeding doom toward the end. He was guilty of political hypocrisy, not the democratic liberal policies of forcing the market to deal in sub-prime mortgages, to help the lower class.

Liberal Democrats are experts in unintended consequences, do to bleeding heart policies that function as a wrench into the works of the free market.
Noumenon
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 18, 2012
,... the regulations that were required were those to dampen the effects of the government entities I sited above, as these purposely designed the conditions in the market to increase home ownership amongst k-mart workers, whom otherwise were not qualified.

But, the government does not like to regulate it's own policies given the redundancy of doing so, ...they only like to regulate the free market, which only needs regulation (for the most part) on account of arbitrary counter-free-market policy wrenches thrown in by do-gooder dumacrats.
Callippo
1 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2012
Your knowledge seems contingent on the existence of conspiracy. In the USA the banks collapsed because of the housing bubble, which of course was enough to effect economies globally. This is not in debate.
Nope, this is just a religion. You're apparently don't realize, if you support this stance without good reasons, they you're becoming an active member of this "conspiracy" too. You're helping to spread it, which is the Holy Grail of every propaganda.
Tausch
1 / 5 (1) Mar 19, 2012
Psychologically, "cognitive dissonance" can explain behavior - or "pattern" as a substitute word for 'behavior' that the authors use.

Scruggs suggests this is "an internal philosophical clash".

ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (4) Mar 19, 2012
"But it does mean that one promise of modern economics -- to extend economic expansions and shorten slumps -- can create the conditions for its own failure. Although the conclusion is obvious, economists ignore it. The most likely reason is that it undermines their self-appointed role as agents of social progress. "
http://www.realcl...521.html
Applies to AGWites as well.
Vendicar_Decarian
5 / 5 (1) Mar 19, 2012
From RyggTard's own link.

"It's true that Wall Street took too many risks while government regulators watched passively..."

A sad commentary on the Libertarian Free Market Economics that caused the ongoing near depression.

Fortunately Obama was there to clean up the mess.

Unfortunately the Libertarian failure was so spectacular that the cleanup cost Americans trillions of dollars.

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