Fresh scandal embroils US climate science debate

Feb 22, 2012 by Kerry Sheridan
A natural gas-fired power station operates in Long Beach, California in 2009. A fresh scandal over climate change has erupted in the United States after leaked documents appeared to show a right-wing funded campaign to influence how climate science is taught in schools.

A fresh scandal over climate change has erupted in the United States after leaked documents appeared to show a right-wing funded campaign to influence how climate science is taught in schools.

The internal budget and strategy documents from a Chicago-based non-profit group called the Heartland Institute were made public last week, and showed $200,000 was to be spent on a "global warming curriculum project."

The project would teach that "whether humans are changing the is a major scientific controversy" and that climate models' "reliability is controversial," according to some of the leaked documents.

Others showed hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations from fossil fuel industries and interests, an anonymous donor's pledge of $1.25 million, and $300,000 to be paid to a team of scientists to rebut UN findings on climate change.

The Heartland Institute has said that one of the leaked strategy memos, a two-page document, was fabricated, but has not commented on the others and did not respond to AFP requests for an interview.

The scandal appeared to take on larger dimensions Wednesday when a called for a hearing into whether one of the scientists named in the documents, a government employee, had improperly accepted payments from Heartland to spread the anti-climate-change message.

Indur Goklany, assistant director of programs, science and technology policy at the Department of the Interior, was named as being allocated $1,000 per month to write a chapter on economics and policy for the Heartland Institute.

The chapter was to appear in a book produced by the group's "Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), an international group of scientists that produces critiques of the reports of the United Nations' ."

The US Department of the Interior. A fresh scandal over climate change has erupted in the United States after leaked documents appeared to show a right-wing funded campaign to influence how climate science is taught in schools.

A Democratic congressman from Arizona, Raul Grijalva, requested a full hearing of the Natural Resources Committee, noting that it is unclear whether Goklany received payments -- which is illegal for federal employees -- or if other government scientists were involved.

"Our Committee has a unique responsibility to find those answers," Grijalva wrote. His appeal is awaiting a decision by senior lawmakers.

Another government contractor, David Wojick at the Department of Energy, has drawn scrutiny for his alleged links to the group after documents showed he would be paid $25,000 quarterly for his work in drafting the school curriculum.

Wojick is listed as a "senior consultant for innovation" at the DOE's Office of Science and Technological Information.

Greenpeace USA sent a series of letters to the government urging an official inquiry into whether the documents reveal illegal payments to government scientists and a conflict of interest.

The documents show Heartland, which was founded in 1984, has "a coordinated multimillion dollar, multi-year campaign to sow confusion about climate change and science," Greenpeace USA research director Kert Davies told AFP.

Another wrinkle emerged in the story on Monday when a prominent climate scientist admitted he had posed as a Heartland board member to fraudulently obtain copies of the confidential internal documents and distribute them to colleagues and the media.

Arizona congressman Raul Grijalva, pictured in Tuscon in 2010, requested a hearing over a fresh climate change scandal. The scandal has erupted in the United States after leaked documents appeared to show a right-wing funded campaign to influence how climate science is taught in schools.

Peter Gleick, president of the Pacific Institute, said his involvement began early this year when he "received an anonymous document in the mail describing what appeared to be details of the Heartland Institute's climate program strategy."

Gleick said he then "solicited and received additional materials directly from the Heartland Institute under someone else's name," which "confirmed many of the facts in the original document."

Gleick apologized late Monday, adding: "My judgment was blinded by my frustration with the ongoing efforts -- often anonymous, well-funded, and coordinated -- to attack and scientists."

The blogosphere has been jammed with commentaries on his actions, alternately blasting Gleick for poor ethics or hailing him as a hero.

Heartland Institute president Joseph Bast said the group was seeking legal counsel, accused Gleick of a "crime" and added: "A mere apology is not enough to undo the damage."

Greenpeace's Davies said the revelation "has sort of made everything uglier," but should pass.

"Yesterday... it was, 'Oh my goodness, a scientist stole some documents,' but you know, we will get over that because the truth is -- what really happened was that he verified that the were real and they were from Heartland."

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Loodt
1.6 / 5 (33) Feb 22, 2012
Gleick obtained the Heartland documents fraudulently, hope he does get his just deserves and do some time?

I also hope that all his published work will be critically reviewed to ensure the integrity of the data used. After all, he is one of the new breed of so-called scientists that have the results of their experiments already written-up before the actual experiments are done and the data is obtained.

Once a liar, always a liar!
gmurphy
4.5 / 5 (24) Feb 22, 2012
@Loodt, I hope you reserve the same ire for those that hacked into the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, somehow, I doubt it.
deepsand
3.1 / 5 (28) Feb 22, 2012
Gleick obtained the Heartland documents fraudulently, hope he does get his just deserves and do some time?

I also hope that all his published work will be critically reviewed to ensure the integrity of the data used. After all, he is one of the new breed of so-called scientists that have the results of their experiments already written-up before the actual experiments are done and the data is obtained.

Once a liar, always a liar!

Which has what to do with the veracity of the information obtained, much of which has been affirmed by Heartland as being being legitimate?
Excalibur
2.9 / 5 (25) Feb 22, 2012
Is Loodt short for Luddite?
kaasinees
2 / 5 (8) Feb 22, 2012
LOL/WTF at the writer:

A natural gas-fired power station operates in Long Beach, California in 2009. A fresh scandal over climate change has erupted in the United States after leaked documents appeared to show a right-wing funded campaign to influence how climate science is taught in schools.


I really don't know how to respond to this. Jumping from one subject to another that are not related? Natural gas is the cleanest fuel to burn.
Vendicar_Decarian
4 / 5 (20) Feb 22, 2012
"Gleick obtained the Heartland documents fraudulently" - Loodt

Since Heartland is does nothing but engage in wholesale fraud, I fail to see your point.
Estevan57
2.9 / 5 (36) Feb 22, 2012
The fox (big oil) is guarding the henhouse. (schools)

What a nasty business. I hope it won't affect the natural gas-fired power station that operates in Long Beach, California in 2009! lol

Scientists accepting payments from Heartland to spread the anti-climate-change message. Just obscene for the scientific community. They should be independent of such influences.

"Gleick obtained the Heartland documents fraudulently, hope he does get his just deserves and do some time?"
Was this an illegal act or just an unethical one? In comparison with with the attempt to bribe and coerce government scientists to change curriculum from science based to that of the energy (oil) industry, it seem like small potatoes.

Of course he will now feel the full wrath of an enraged right wing and industry led backlash, as well as lawsuits.

Loodite, why attack his science, has he been bribing government officials, or do you just want to call him names and hang him?

Well written article.
kochevnik
3.1 / 5 (17) Feb 23, 2012
Gleick obtained the Heartland documents fraudulently
When in Rome...
ccr5Delta32
2.7 / 5 (12) Feb 23, 2012
Something tells me even though this story has the words "Scandal and Climate Science "in the title ,it will NOT be all over Fox News
antialias_physorg
4.4 / 5 (7) Feb 23, 2012
The fox (big oil) is guarding the henhouse. (schools)

Naturally. What industry wants out of the education system is not critical people but workers for and consumers of their products. Nothing more, nothing less.

Profit maximization requires that no investment need to be undertaken - so it is in the interest of companies to further the belief that "everything is fine the way it is - let's just keep doing what we've been doing for eternity (at increasing prices due to ever scarcer resources, of course)"

In capitalist societies governments are little more than the enforcers of industry whims. So we shouldn't really be surprised by that kind of attitude towards education.
antialias_physorg
4.1 / 5 (9) Feb 23, 2012
Something tells me even though this story has the words "Scandal and Climate Science "in the title ,it will NOT be all over Fox News

It is - but only to the extent that they are upset about Gleick publishing stuff that was supposed to be Heartland internals - while AT THE SAME TIME alleging that it's a forgery of his.

How can a forgery be property of Heartland and be stolen - and that THEFT be termed dishonorable to the point of firing Gleick for it? Someone explain that logic to me.

http://www.foxnew...nk-tank/
rubberman
3 / 5 (12) Feb 23, 2012
From AP's link -

"Gleick's crime was a serious one. The documents he admits stealing contained personal information about Heartland staff members, donors, and allies, the release of which has violated their privacy and endangered their personal safety, Bast wrote in a statement posted Monday night to the groups website."

Endangered their personal safety? How exactly?
Have they started using combat weapons to debate climate change causes? Or perhaps the threat to their personal safety comes from the other prisoners where whole heartland team belongs in the first place.

antialias_physorg
3.4 / 5 (10) Feb 23, 2012
Endangered their personal safety?

Well, they want to make it out as being terrorism.

It's really come up to the point where anything that sounds even remotely patriotic (like "Heartland", "Homeland Security", etc. ) is a sure fire giveaway that it's an organisation that is completely insane and just out to manipulate and terrorize the American people.
Estevan57
2.4 / 5 (29) Feb 23, 2012
"Gleick's crime was a serious one. The documents he admits stealing contained personal information about Heartland staff members, donors, and allies, the release of which has violated their privacy and endangered their personal safety, Bast wrote in a statement posted Monday night to the groups website."

A bit of legalese before the first salvo of supoenas and civil suits.

Perhaps Heartland feels violated for being "exposed".

I would hope that Physorg will continue to follow this story as it develops.
Excalibur
2.2 / 5 (24) Feb 23, 2012
Has anyone noticed the dearth of denialists rushing to Heartland's defense?
enigma13x
2.3 / 5 (9) Feb 24, 2012
"The Heartland Institute has said that one of the leaked strategy memos, a two-page document, was fabricated, but has not commented on the others and did not respond to AFP requests for an interview."

ha... the denalists even try to deny the fact of the documents and what their doing lmfao once a denialist always a denialist by the way the earth is still flat people lol
Howhot
3.9 / 5 (12) Feb 24, 2012
Since Heartland is does nothing but engage in wholesale fraud

It's not just Heartland promoting wholesale fraud, its the entire Republican/Tea-party/right paying people to lie... Paying to propagandize society, and worst destroying the freedom to think in science.

I can not believe how slimy these low-lifers are. To poison the waters of our children's knowledge with made up fibs and anti-science propaganda. It's criminal. They should be ridiculed out of existence and sued for fraud.

Also, have you noticed how the opposition has just shut-up on Physorg.... humm do you think ... could they have been funded by Heartland?? It makes you go Humm.
gregor1
1.8 / 5 (20) Feb 25, 2012
@ Excalibur are you perhaps a solar denialist? apparently it's the IPCC itself that's been committing fraud. That's if one of it's reviewers is to be believed. http://wattsupwit...-in-ar5/
.
Excalibur
2.6 / 5 (20) Feb 25, 2012
Solar denialist?

While the Sun may have vanished within the preceding 8 minutes without our yet knowing of that, I'm pretty confident that old Sol is still there.
gregor1
1.8 / 5 (21) Feb 25, 2012
Solar forcing denialist. Read the link
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (9) Feb 25, 2012
"It's not just Heartland promoting wholesale fraud, its the entire Republican/Tea-party/right paying people to lie..." - HowHot

Correct. The entire world knows that American Conservatives are behind this massive warming denialism fraud.

"Also, have you noticed how the opposition has just shut-up on Physorg..." - HowHot

These Conservative/Libertarian propaganda organizations certainly do their best to have a presence and spread their lies to specific forums.

Has LoodTard or RyggTard ever posted anything but anti-warming, anti-government propaganda here?

Not that I have ever seen.

So why are they here, and who has sent them?

American Republicans aren't involved in terrorism. It is outright treason against their own nation, mankind and nature.

Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (10) Feb 25, 2012
From gregor1's own second hand reference. The author of the complaint states the following.

"My training is in economics"

Hence he has no background in science.

Libertarian Economists are the worst kind of Lowlife scum.

"apparently it's the IPCC itself that's been committing fraud." - gregor1
Vendicar_Decarian
3.6 / 5 (9) Feb 25, 2012
"Endangered their personal safety? How exactly?" - Rubberman

Heartland is a Libertairan organization that revolves around lying lying to further the corporate takeover of America. Those who work for Heartland are well aware that they are supporting an entity that constantly produces a vast array of lies.

Heartland's Bast himself is a liar when he claims that the release of Heartland documents has endangered his safety.

Heartland, Cato, CEI, AEI, and all the other Libertarian corporate propaganda groups engage in the same dishonesty for the same desired ends.

I have personally caught one high level employee of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, being paid to post the same kind pro-corporate lies, anti-environmental lies to usenet forums - before blogging became popular.

This was done by analyzing his posting patterns and determining from them his daily posting profile for each hour of the day.

Cont.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.5 / 5 (11) Feb 25, 2012
I am completely serious when I say that I have never encountered a Libertarian/Randite who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

NONE. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Not even one.

RyggTard is a fine example of the filthy lying breed.
ryggesogn2
2.1 / 5 (19) Feb 25, 2012
"But more than a few environmental blogs and mainstream news outlets ran with the story of how this leak exposed the nefarious antiscience Neanderthals of Heartland and their fossil fuel paymasters. But the strategy memo is a fake, probably created because the genuine internal documents are fairly ho-hum. It seems the climate campaign is now taking its tactics from Dan fake but accurate Rather."
"Gleick looks set to be spending a good chunk of his MacArthur genius prize winnings on lawyers; hes retained the same criminal attorney that Andrew Fastow of Enron used for his defense against fraud charges."
"environmental organizations take in many multiples of Heartlands total budget in anonymous donations washed through the left-wing Tides Foundation. "
http://www.weekly...l?page=3
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (16) Feb 25, 2012
"The Gleick episode exposes again a movement that disdains arguing with its critics, choosing demonization over persuasion and debate. "
http://www.weekly...l?page=3
This is apparent here everyday.
Caliban
3 / 5 (6) Feb 25, 2012
"But more than a few environmental blogs and mainstream news outlets ran with the story of how this leak exposed the nefarious antiscience Neanderthals of Heartland and their fossil fuel paymasters. But the strategy memo is a fake, probably created because the genuine internal documents are fairly ho-hum.


The "strategy memo" is CLAIMED to be a fake. Naturally.
The fact that it is a scanned image of what was probably printer copies of a word.doc should come as no suprise to any of us here employed in the corporate sector. Strategy is very sensitive information, and can create serious vulnerability/backlash if it falls into the "wrong" hands.

Case in point.

The fact that it wasn't --at least apparently-- information that was circulated via email is nothing more or less than DOCUMENT CONTROL. If you can physically control and verify to whom a document is distributed, then you can vastly reduce the leak potential.

Cont
Caliban
4.2 / 5 (5) Feb 25, 2012
Claiming that this memo is forged because of its format is obviously no more than the most transparent strategy to discredit it, based upon that very internal evidence which makes it most likely to be just the sort of standard practice it appears to be-- a memo/handout, considered sensitive information(and therefore for only the most strictly controlled circulation --never intended to fall into anyone else's hands) that was supplied to the members of the board at their meeting, and a hardcopy of which had to be obtained and scanned to be transmitted as an attached file via email. Intentionally leaked, or not.
The fact that the leaking email account later disappeared would tend to support the "intentional" interpretation.

@rigsuggin's slavish devotion to untruth will always and positively identify him as a willing mouthpiece and waterboy for corporocratic interests.


Callippo
1 / 5 (4) Feb 25, 2012
The irony of climate battle is, the origin of global warming is probably somewhere, when nobody expects, i.e. geothermal and the only viable long-term replacement of fossil fuels - i.e. the cold fusion - is ignored heartily both with proponents of fossil fuel lobby, both with proponents of green alternatives from the same reason: it would make them redundant. Nevertheless, if I should still make some choice, then I vote for urgent replacement of fossil fuels and for life environment protection. The main risk of fossil fuel consumption is not the global warming, but the increased cost of oil, the geopolitical and economical instability and the nearing risk of global nuclear war for the rest of sources.
Callippo
1 / 5 (1) Feb 25, 2012
"somewhere, when nobody expects" = "somewhere that nobody expects", I presume. I failed to correct my post in three minute period.
Caliban
4 / 5 (4) Feb 25, 2012
The irony of climate battle is, the origin of global warming is probably geothermal and the only solution - cold fusion - is ignored both with proponents of fossil fuel lobby, both with proponents of green alternatives from the same reason: it would make them redundant.


Callippo,
That's an irony that I'm pretty sure virtually everyone here would be only too happy to embrace, were it true.

But by all means --bring on cold fusion! Nothing would do me more good than to see Big Oil(and everything it signifies here on this Earth) completely unhorsed, making a jarring, crippling landing on its backside, and never to recover.

ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (15) Feb 25, 2012
"I used a pdfinfo script to analyse the memos. The info I got is that all the meta data dates changed on the day of the leak in the Pacific time zone (-8 GMT). This is likely where our thief resides. This is also where the "fake" was created on 2/13. The other docs, with the exception of the IRS form were in the central time zone (-6 GMT). The IRS form was -4 GMT. This has been corroborated by a commenter at Lucia's. Based on this, and I'm not sure if I've covered every base, the strategy memo is a fake."
http://www.theatl.../253276/

Too bad AGWites don't have the same investigative skills.
Excalibur
2.4 / 5 (14) Feb 25, 2012
Too bad that you don't have any.

If you did, you might not be continuously posting such drivel, fluff, and tripe.
SteveL
5 / 5 (1) Feb 26, 2012
Something tells me even though this story has the words "Scandal and Climate Science "in the title ,it will NOT be all over Fox News

Which is why you should never rely on a single source of news. MSNBC is just as liable to mis or under-report news they don't like as is FOX, ABC, CBS or whomever. Every news outlet has a political leaning and will tailor their news as they see fit. Truth isn't always what we want it to be. I've found that "the Left" has been tailoring education to fit their agenda for generations now - Since before the U.S. Department of Education was created. "The Right" is simply way behind getting into this dirty game of brainwashing our youth into what to think. My preference is that the educational systems expend more effort teaching our youth how to seperate fact from fiction and how to reach logical conclusions.

Not "all over" FOX news:

http://www.foxnew...nk-tank/
Excalibur
2.6 / 5 (15) Feb 27, 2012
Which is why you should never rely on a single source of news. MSNBC is just as liable to mis or under-report news they don't like as is FOX, ABC, CBS or whomever. Every news outlet has a political leaning and will tailor their news as they see fit.

Including PBS, NPR, and PRI?

I've found that "the Left" has been tailoring education to fit their agenda for generations now ... "The Right" is simply way behind getting into this dirty game of brainwashing our youth into what to think.

Look a bit closer, and you'll find otherwise.

My preference is that the educational systems expend more effort teaching our youth how to seperate fact from fiction and how to reach logical conclusions.

Not easily had when so many States' curricula and textbooks are controlled by politicos.
deepsand
2.5 / 5 (16) Feb 27, 2012
Which is why you should never rely on a single source of news. MSNBC is just as liable to mis or under-report news they don't like as is FOX, ABC, CBS or whomever.

None so blatantly, though, as FAUX News.

How many times has it been that, when reporting unfavorable news re. a Republican, they "accidentally" label the images with a Blue "D" rather than a Red "R?"
kochevnik
2.6 / 5 (10) Feb 27, 2012
Too bad AGWites don't have the same investigative skills.
Probably the computer was set to Greenwich mean time.
Howhot
5 / 5 (3) Feb 27, 2012
The Heartland Institute; What crap these people are. Scum they are. To propagandize science is nothing less than brainwashing your child or you mom. Scum. I can not believe how slimy these low-lifers are. To poison the waters of our children's knowledge with made up fibs and anti-science propaganda. It's criminal. They should be ridiculed out of existence and sued for fraud.

This is even lower than FAUX News. This is lower than low gets! This is anti-science and teaching people lies. Fraud. They should have their non-profit status challenged in Court.

And, guess what R2 and crew, they have been caught red handed trying to manipulate american education. Are the minions pleased?

Birger
5 / 5 (3) Feb 27, 2012
"I can not believe how slimy these low-lifers are. "

Their ilk has been around for decades.

First their kind was sowing confusion about the effects of tobacco.
And asbestos.
And the health insurance companies have been launching massive desinformation campaigns to avoid a change of status quo.

And...(insert just about any subject like worker safety, environmental poisoning and other stuff)
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (11) Feb 27, 2012
"Just as shrewdly, Enron saw the
importance in silencing the scientists who didnt accept the alarmism that
had driven the Kyoto Protocol. In a 1998 letter, Enron CEO Ken Lay, among
others, asked president Clinton to appoint a bi-partisan Blue-Ribbon
Commission designed to pronounce on the science and, in effect,
marginalize the skeptics.
T he precise commission that Lay demanded didnt happen but the general
marginalization of scientists did, and continues to occur to this day, with
great success. Scientists who question the Kyoto Protocol invariably find
themselves subject to public ridicule; all too often they find they are unable
to obtain funding for their research, or even that their employment has been
terminated."
National Post, 30 May 2009
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (4) Feb 27, 2012
Funny how only US scientists who doubt the climate scienxce sem to be ridiculed.

Have you noticed that there are scientists from all over the world doing climate science? And that they all agree on what the data points to? And that ONLY in the US are there people who claim it's a hoax in any numbers?

Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Or is it a worldwide conspiracy, now?
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (11) Feb 27, 2012
And that they all agree on what the data points to?

No, they all don't agree.
Do some research.
Excalibur
2.2 / 5 (13) Feb 27, 2012
After you first demonstrate an ability to find, recognize, and understand real data, as opposed to the cherry picked stuff that you are so very fond of.
Howhot
4 / 5 (4) Feb 28, 2012
R2 goes political and says
Enron CEO Ken Lay, among
others, asked president Clinton to appoint a bi-partisan Blue-Ribbon Commission


You have some great accusations against President Clinton R2. A lot of guilt by association, But was he really guilty of anything as nefarious as you imply? Enron and all of that --- Enron went bankrupt, Mr Lay is in jail, what better of the US justice system than that?

The bottom line though, is the Heartland is a manipulative propaganda factory for extremists as nasty as they come. They have been caught in a lie. R2 if you support that shit, I give up on you as an American.

Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 28, 2012
"R2 if you support this shit, I give up on you." - HowHot

Support it? He wallows in the stuff. His Libertarian Stench is as powerful as his stupidity.
Howhot
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 28, 2012
Lets let R2 reply VD. He is one of the cogs in this anti-environment propaganda machine. He boasts about his insider political knowledge of the President Clinton dealing with Enron... He seems to know a lot of stuff for an ordinary USA educated climate change denier. R2; so are you paid to post?

Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 28, 2012
The thing is, Clinton didn't deal with Enron. RyggTard is simply reporting that Enron made requests from the president.

Now on the other hand Enron had a very close relationship with the Bush Family.

That relationship is well documented.

RyggTard would rather ignore that real relationship and imply one that didn't exist.

He is lying in doing so of course. But then I have never encountered a Libertarian who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 29, 2012
He seems to know a lot of stuff for an ordinary USA educated climate change denier

Not really. He requested my credentials via PM. I'm still waiting on his.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (8) Feb 29, 2012
Climate change may be real or climate change may be just a ruse by climatologists to get funded for continual research and for third world countries to extort billions from rich countries. Either way, it is criminal to fill the minds of innocent children with the scary scenario of death by CO2 just because Liberals/Socialists want to get these young minds to agree with what may not be entirely factual.
It would be fine if the subject of climate change in the class included only that climate change or global warming is a possibility and not something that will definitely happen. Teachers would be forced to tell their students that the seas will rise and kill the polar bears and all that nonsense as though it is an absolute certainty. . . instead of saying that it MIGHT happen and suggesting ways to prevent it from happening. The climate is always changing. . .it warms the earth and it cools the earth. There is nothing new about that. But leave the kids alone. They have enough with math
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (7) Feb 29, 2012
history, language skills, biological sciences, gym and other curriculum. If anything, the parents should be educated as to the possibilities of global warming . . .or cooling. . . or whatever the case might be.
It is the parents and other adults who will have to give up their usage of fossil fuels, not the kids. Children should NOT be burdened with things over which they have no control. Let them be kids for the little time they have for being kids instead of worrying them to death. They will grow up soon enough.
antialias_physorg
4 / 5 (4) Feb 29, 2012
Climate change may be real or climate change may be just a ruse by climatologists to get funded for continual research

Scientists work overwhelmingly in the public sector (universities and such). They get paid no matter what. More grant money doesn't mean a better paycheck (it just means better equipment and more PhD students to do the actual work)

it is criminal to fill the minds of innocent children with the scary scenario of death by CO2

They report the facts. Filling the minds with fear is what the media does. Sometimes the facts are scary. But covering your eyes and sticking your fingers in your eary isn't going to make them go away (it's only going to make the problem worse).

climate change or global warming is a possibility and not something that will definitely happen.

It's happening. Islands are disappearing. People are suffering. We need to act. Teaching a 'possibility' does not lead to action.
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (10) Feb 29, 2012
They report the facts.

Output from climate models are not facts.

Mr Lay is in jail,

He is dead.

"Ken Lay was the erudite senior statesman interested in politics. He has a Ph.D. in economics -- a very wide background." {Lay had a PhD!} "He was a friend not only of President Bush, his father, but Bill Clinton. "
"The Kyoto agreements which would of course cut down gaseous emissions -- he favored these because natural gas is less polluting than the petrochemical industry and the oil."
http://www.pbs.or...-12.html
Vendicar_Decarian
4 / 5 (4) Feb 29, 2012
But the physical laws that those models employ are most certainly facts.

"Output from climate models are not facts." - RyggTard

There is no rational way to deny the fact that CO2 absorbs Infared Radiation and re-radiates 50% of the energy back down towards the surface of the earth.

Hence there is no rational way to deny the reality of global warming.

Rationality and Reason seem to elude Libertarians, Randites, and other forms of dishonest Conervatives.
Vendicar_Decarian
4 / 5 (4) Feb 29, 2012
Bush's Enron Problem

"The Bush Administration, having run up against its first honor-and-dignity issue in the person of Enron's former chief, longtime (and politically generous) Bush buddy Kenneth Lay, is fervently washing its hands of the whole mess"

http://www.physor...firstCmt

Enron: The Bush Connection

Enron founder Ken Lay and his family rank among President Bushs biggest financial backers of his political career.

http://www.democr...nnection

Enron's Connections With Bush Go Way Back

Lay and Enron together donated $2 million to George W. Bush. In 2000, a company memo that was an open strong-arm recommended employees give campaign checks for Bush to the political action committee: low-level managers were urged to contribute $500 and senior executives at least $5,000. It gave more money last cycle than any other energy company.

http://www.common...7-08.htm
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (10) Feb 29, 2012
"If they're so sure their critics are wrong, how come the warmists have to invent evidence to discredit those critics? If they are the heroic defenders of science that they claim to be, how come they have to tear down the very foundation of science in order to prop up their cause?"
http://www.realcl...294.html
Vendicar_Decarian
4 / 5 (4) Feb 29, 2012
Are you still trying to defend your ideological brothers at the Heritage Foundation RyggTard, after they were caught red handed trying to sell poison to children?

Message from the Heritage foundation to America's Children.

... Smoking isn't dangerous and is in fact a healthy life style choice that not only has many health benefits, but is also fun. Just ask Joe Camel...

ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (12) Feb 29, 2012
"As a fellow trained in the sciences (chemistry) and who reveres the scientific method, I followed Dr. Peter Gleicks pathetic, mean-spirited attempt to demean and degrade the Heartland Institute with a mixed sense of disgust and sadness. The former because I have nothing but contempt for a man trained in the sciences who stoops to such underhanded, dishonorable tactics as part of a continuing effort to silence people with whom he disagrees. Sadness, because like so many others who share my particular views the work that Heartland does is so important to maintaining scientific integrity in a world rushing to embrace the 21st century version of Lysenkoism."
http://blog.heart...ientist/
Excalibur
2.2 / 5 (13) Feb 29, 2012
And, yet, you so eagerly embraced the purloined e-mails that gave rise to Climategate.

You epitomize hypocrisy.
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (12) Feb 29, 2012
And, yet, you so eagerly embraced the purloined e-mails that gave rise to Climategate.

You epitomize hypocrisy.


Were the thousands of emails fakes?

Vendicar_Decarian
4 / 5 (4) Feb 29, 2012
Are you still trying to defend your ideological brothers at the Heritage Foundation RyggTard, after they were caught red handed trying to sell poison to children?

Message from the Heritage foundation to America's Children.

... Smoking isn't dangerous and is in fact a healthy life style choice that not only has many health benefits, but is also fun. Just ask Joe Camel...
Excalibur
2.2 / 5 (13) Mar 01, 2012
Were the thousands of emails fakes?

Is that the case here? NO.

The Heritage Foundation has contested the validity of a SINGLE document. Furthermore, a former member has confirmed that, with that one possible exception, all are legitimate.

You are an intellectual fraud.
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (12) Mar 01, 2012
one possible exception, all are legitimate.

Why did even ONE document need to be faked?
Why did Mann have to fake his hockey stick data?
deepsand
2.6 / 5 (15) Mar 01, 2012
Not only has it not been established that anything here is a fake, but the one in question does not change the validity of the remaining ones.

But, then, you already knew that, but just couldn't bear to admit it.

You are an intellectual fraud.
Howhot
5 / 5 (3) Mar 01, 2012
The bottom line R2 is your cherished "Heritage Foundation" is a front for a stooge operation; and you bought it hook-line and sinker! I have nothing but pure disdain for this anti-american
slime-pit.

If you support this kind of hypocrisy education, then as Deep say; "You are an intellectual fraud."