Detroit unsure over the future of green cars
January 11, 2012 by Veronique Dupont
Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid car is shown on display at the 2012 Detroit Auto Show. The US auto industry remains unsold over the future of "green cars" such as electrics and hybrids, as carmakers struggle with the first steps in a market most agree shows promise over the long term.
The US auto industry remains unsold over the future of "green cars" such as electrics and hybrids, as carmakers struggle with the first steps in a market most agree shows promise over the long term.
Automakers wheeled out a variety of new hybrids and plug-in electrics at the annual Detroit auto show this week, touting their great energy savings along with new, freshened designs.
But despite that apparent commitment, behind the scenes, the manufacturers remain split between doubts and optimism over their potential.
Ten years after the Toyota Prius hybrid swept into the market, only about three percent of all cars sold in the United States are electric or gas-electric hybrids, said David Cole, director of the Center for Automotive Research.
"Initially there was probably some excessive exuberance about the green auto," he told AFP.
"But the economics are not attractive yet for the average consumer."
Nissan has sold only 9,700 of its all-electric Leaf in the US market, and General Motors has sold just 8,000 of its rechargeable hybrid the Volt since its launch at the end of 2010, below the targeted 10,000.
The Volt became the object of scrutiny in recent weeks after tests by US authorities saw batteries in three cars catch fire.
Detroit's investment in hybrids and electrics have picked up pace in recent years under prodding and support by the government, said Cole.
The government has set tight goals for companies to boost fuel economy across their entire range of cars and trucks, and many are turning to hybrids and electrics to meet the goals.
Ford this week launched its new 2013 Fusion mid-size sedan, to be sold in gasoline, hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions.
But Mark Fields, Ford's president for the Americas, would not commit on how many would be made in each format, saying the market would set the pace.
But last year only a fraction of the nearly 250,000 Fusions sold last year were hybrids.
One challenge has been that hybrids, which have both traditional combustion engines and electric engines, are more costly because they require two powertrains, according to Michelle Krebs of auto specialists Edmunds.com.
Moreover, drivers still worry that they will run out of power without a network of recharging stations as widespread as gasoline pumps.
Sergio Marchionne, the head of Fiat and Chrysler, reiterated his doubts over the market, especially for electric cars, at the Detroit show, citing both the pricing problem and the availability of batteries.
Marchionne's counterpart at Renault Nissan, Carlos Ghosn, is more positive but recognizes big hurdles.
"I admit I am much more optimistic on electric cars than most people. We are very far from the potential of the market," he said in Detroit.
"The problem for the moment is the supply and the bottlenecks with the batteries," he said in Detroit.
"We are going to have to solve this problem by producing the Leaf and its battery in the United States," he said.
That would be an important bet for Nissan, which with Renault has invested around four billion euros ($5.1 billion) to develop electric vehicles.
Together they plan to introduce eight green vehicles by the beginning of 2017.
Ghosn said the infrastructure to support the new cars, the recharging stations, is coming.
General Motors sees the industry building helped by the steady rise in the price of oil.
"It's a long-term commitment. I still believe there has been a change of behavior towards more responsibility" to the environment, GM North America head Mark Reuss told journalists Tuesday.
But Marchionne foresees the industry turning instead toward compressed natural gas as an alternative fuel, as gas prices falling due to the huge investments being made in extracting it from shale.
Chrysler plans to introduce in March a compressed gas-fueled truck using technology developed with Fiat.
(c) 2012 AFP
-
From lemons to lemonade: Reaction uses carbon dioxide to make carbon-based semiconductor,
32 comments
-
Thioridazine kills cancer stem cells in human while avoiding toxic side-effects of conventional cancer treatments,
3 comments
-
SpaceX private rocket blasts off for space station (Update),
42 comments
-
Climate scientists say they have solved riddle of rising sea,
31 comments
-
SpaceX capsule has 'new car' smell, astronauts say (Update),
4 comments
-
Need a rigid insulation material???
23 hours ago
-
magnets or EMF in car bumpers to protect from fender bender
May 26, 2012
-
length of wire in a coil of known dimensions?
May 25, 2012
-
India Engineering Powerhouse
May 25, 2012
-
electromagnet core dereference between hard and soft iron
May 25, 2012
-
Measuring water pressure in an open tank
May 24, 2012
- More from Physics Forums - General Engineering
More news stories
Browser wars flare in mobile space
The browser wars are heating up again, but this time the fight is for dominance of the mobile Internet.
15 hours ago |
5 / 5 (2) |
3
Probability of contamination from severe nuclear reactor accidents is higher than expected: study
Catastrophic nuclear accidents such as the core meltdowns in Chernobyl and Fukushima are more likely to happen than previously assumed. Based on the operating hours of all civil nuclear reactors and the number ...
Technology / Energy & Green Tech
May 22, 2012 |
3.6 / 5 (25) |
56
|
HyperSolar shows dirty water no barrier to power world
(Phys.org) -- The Santa Barbara, California, company, HyperSolar, is set to transparently share the ups and downs of its research experiences toward the companys ultimate vision, successfully producing ...
SpotterRF debuts Radar Backpack Kit (w/ Video)
(Phys.org) -- SpotterRF has announced a special radar backpack kit designed to enhance situational awareness for soldiers on the ground. The company says its special radar is designed for warfighters as part ...
Tesla to launch electric sedan in US on June 22
Tesla Motors said Tuesday it would begin deliveries of "the world's first premium electric sedan" on June 22, slightly ahead of schedule.
Technology / Energy & Green Tech
May 22, 2012 |
4.5 / 5 (12) |
18
Stunning image of smallest possible five-ringed structure
Scientists have created and imaged the smallest possible five-ringed structure about 100,000 times thinner than a human hair and you'll probably recognise its shape.
'Unzipped' carbon nanotubes could help energize fuel cells, batteries
Multi-walled carbon nanotubes riddled with defects and impurities on the outside could replace some of the expensive platinum catalysts used in fuel cells and metal-air batteries, according to scientists at ...
Change in developmental timing was crucial in the evolutionary shift from dinosaurs to birds: study
At first glance, it's hard to see how a common house sparrow and a Tyrannosaurus Rex might have anything in common. After all, one is a bird that weighs less than an ounce, and the other is a dinosaur that ...
Computer model used to pinpoint prime materials for efficient carbon capture
When power plants begin capturing their carbon emissions to reduce greenhouse gases and to most in the electric power industry, it's a question of when, not if it will be an expensive undertaking.
T cells 'hunt' parasites like animal predators seek prey, study shows
By pairing an intimate knowledge of immune-system function with a deep understanding of statistical physics, a cross-disciplinary team at the University of Pennsylvania has arrived at a surprising finding: T cells use a movement ...
Land and sea species differ in climate change response: study
(Phys.org) -- Marine and terrestrial species will likely differ in their responses to climate warming, new research by Simon Fraser University and Australia’s University of Tasmania has found.
Jan 11, 2012
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (15)
So is everyone else.
Massive oil deposit found in the Barents Sea.
http://www.ft.com...jCIMTxwU
Drill everywhere, drill now.
Jan 11, 2012
Rank: 4.6 / 5 (10)
Jan 11, 2012
Rank: 1 / 5 (11)
Jan 11, 2012
Rank: 4.4 / 5 (12)
Oil typically becomes cheaper during North Hemisphere winter, and expensive in the summer. It's winter now, yet oil is as expensive as it was last summer.
The point: no matter how much you discover and drill, old and cheap resources continue to dwindle as fast as you can bring new and expensive resources online. At the same time, world-wide demand for oil continues to escalate exponentially.
Welcome to Peak Oil.
The economics of green cars already make sense today, at today's oil prices. They will only make ever more sense with every passing year, as average gasoline price passes $4/gallon, then $5/gallon, then $6/gallon, and so on and so forth.
Jan 11, 2012
Rank: 1.4 / 5 (19)
http://inflationd...hart.asp
Jan 11, 2012
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Okay but... batteries are not an energy source. It doesn't really matter if you drive a car with a gasoline engine or a battery because ultimately the power for that battery came primarily from burning coal, which is horrible for the environment. (not to mention the chemicals in the batteries)
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (9)
Very "clever" of you.
Though I'm afraid this attempt of yours at apples-to-oranges comparison is in a spot of trouble: those oranges are looking more like parsley.In a traditional hybrid drivetrain -- as opposed to plug-in hybrid or pure-electric -- they don't need to be. They store scavenged energy when you break or go downhill while your engine shuts off, allow your engine to automatically shutdown and restart when you're crawling in traffic or navigating street lights in a city, etc. They greatly increase the EFFICIENCY with which you extract useful energy from gasoline. That's how a Prius can get 50 MPG in combined, real-life city/highway driving.
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (19)
The opinions of U.S. automakers are less than worthless.
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 3.9 / 5 (18)
RyggTard is a Libertarian. You are discovering that all Libertairans are perpetual liars.
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 3 / 5 (21)
BATSFJORD, Norway, Jan. 9 (UPI) -- The Norwegian oil company Statoil said it had found a new oil field in the Barents Sea that contains up to 300 million barrels of recoverable oil.
World oil consumption is about 80 million barrels of oil per day.
This massive find therefore represents around 4 days of global supply.
Have you been an idiot all your life ShooTard?
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Auto industry unsure about the future of Detroit.
Why? This may be true today. But if you don't use batteries (or some other medium like hydrogen) as an energy storage it will always remain true. If you use batteries as an energy storag then the primary energy CAN come from anywhere (oil, coal, nuclear, wind , hydro, biomass, solar, you-name-it).
Oil isn't gonig to last forever. A need to switch over is inevitable at some point. Why not do it now? It's already economically sound (and has been ecologically sound for some decades)
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 1.2 / 5 (20)
Wow. I am not an Obama fan either but that was straight up racist.
Anyhow, if they want hybrids to be a hit, make them cheap. Americans don't buy cars with conscience. They buy them with money. If the car is expensive, we look for another.
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Development costs money. You only get 'cheap' if you use stock parts. That's why most new cars are simply recycled older models with a few optical touch ups.
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (12)
Watermelon, green on the outside, red on the inside meaning they are environmental communists.
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 1 / 5 (9)
Why bother.
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 3.5 / 5 (11)
"Watermelon, green on the outside, red on the inside" - Ryggtard
Jan 12, 2012
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (10)
"How long will this production last?" - Ryggtard
Jan 13, 2012
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (11)
2.5 trillion bbl is an 85 year supply.
How many times has peak oil been proclaimed and fallen by the wayside?
Jan 13, 2012
Rank: 4.1 / 5 (9)
Even an ignorant demagogue like you ought to be able to understand that the production curve for that estimated 2.5 trillion bbl is not a flat line over 85 years, terminating in an abrupt step-drop to 0. It will be a curve asymptotically approaching 0, and it will have a maximum-value peak somewhere in the early part of that 85 year span. We are pretty much at that peak, right now.
You also ought to understand, that the most easily extracted oil got harvested first. What tends to remain over time is ever harder to get to and refine, and thus ever more expensive per barrel just due to production costs alone (even ignoring the supply/demand aspect.)
Jan 13, 2012
Rank: 5 / 5 (8)
http://www.eia.go...9-sm.jpg
And even that estimate relies on what are widely suspected to be aggressively inflated numbers from OPEC members.
According to IEA, world demand for 2011 averages 89 million bbl/day, which comes out to roughly 32.5 billion bbl/year. Divided into 1.47 trillion, this yields 45 years, not 85.
This is assuming no new discoveries, and ALSO that China, India, and the rest of the world won't continue on their rapid modernization track, and that the already-modernized countries won't continue escalating their oil consumption. Those assumptions are obviously incorrect, but the effects of new discoveries vs. higher rate of consumption probably balance out in terms of overall resource exhaustion deadline.
Jan 13, 2012
Rank: 5 / 5 (8)
Some of us see that iceberg approaching rapidly dead ahead, and would rather steer around it. Others (such as you) seem to prefer to wait until our ship is wrapped around that iceberg, by which stage the time to act will have transformed into time to panic and die.
Jan 13, 2012
Rank: 1.4 / 5 (10)
And we all know that Pinky and others here believe the consensus of scientists.
http://www.nytime...nted=all
Jan 14, 2012
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (10)
"2.5 trillion bbl is an 85 year supply." - RyggTard
Wrong. It is 80 years at current levels of consumption. But only 40 years with a yearly 3% growth rate in consumption.
So, even if you can magically double the planet's oil reserves
over the next 40 years, you will still be out of oil by 2052.
"How many times has peak oil been proclaimed and fallen by the wayside?" - RyggTard
Never.
Peak oil production occurred somewhere between 2005 to 2007.
Jan 14, 2012
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Yup, that pretty much sums up the practical results of Libertarian/Randite ideology.
Jan 14, 2012
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
RyggTard's NYT Op Ed nonsense is dated Aug 2009.
Here is a plot of World Oil prices from 2006 to current.
https://www.esa.d...oil3.jpg
Hmmm. Oil prices haven't seemed to drop to $30 a barrel as RyggTard's Lying Libertarian brothers have claimed.
In fact they are 66 percent higher now - during an American recession - then they were when his Libertarian Brother announced that they would decline to $30 a barrel.
Brent Crude is trading today at $110 per barrel.
As always. We see that Libertarian Economics is a combination of Fantasy, ignorance, and outright lying.
Jan 14, 2012
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Note how badly Lynch estimated global oil production.
http://s777.photo...asts.png
RyggTard's Libertarian brother estimated global oil production of 95 million barrels of oil in 2011.
Production however has stalled at 81 million barrels per day, while demand has continued to rise and is now close to 89 billion barrels per day.
Oil production fails to keep up with demand
The Economist online
http://www.econom...sumption
So much for Lying Libertarians.