Calif. imposes battery charger energy standards

The lemmings in California are running full speed ahead, right over the cliff. Every little regulation makes the state that much more bankrupt and less competitive. I just hope when the impoverished out of work residents move to other states they learn their lesson and do not infect the electorate of their new host state with their progressive stupidity.

Why do people even live in such a hell hole. Is the weather really worth putting up with all the Flakes, Fruits and Nuts?

Is the weather really worth putting up with all the Flakes, Fruits and Nuts?

The regulation of adapters doesn't affect the users, but producers of adapters. Their voltage and safety is already regulated, so why not the energy efficiency? And it's not about "weather", but about cost of energy. Where the people are using electricity for heating of their homes, there the heat dissipated from adapters doesn't increase the consumption of electricity, which is regulated with thermostats. California is not such a place.

Where the people are using electricity for heating of their homes, there the heat dissipated from adapters doesn't increase the consumption of electricity, which is regulated with thermostats. California is not such a place.

I guarantee the power adapters do not convert electricity to heat as efficiently as an actual electric heater does, and nowhere near as efficiently as other heating technologies.

Wall mounted power transformers are very common in homes.

I have directly measured the power consumption of a random selection of these power converters in my home and have found that on average when powered off or on, they consume about 9 watts of power.

Even if a home has only 11 of these units, they represent a power draw of 2.4 kilowatt hours of electricity.

In the collapsing American nation, this translates nationally to the combined output of 4 nuclear reactors.

That 2.4 kilowatt hours of needless energy waste is also 32 percent of my current daily electricity use which currently stands at 7.5 kilowatt hours per day.

I guarantee the power adapters do not convert electricity to heat as efficiently as an actual electric heater does, and nowhere near as efficiently as other heating technologies.

And what they actually do instead? A neutrinos?

I guarantee the power adapters do not convert electricity to heat as efficiently as an actual electric heater does, and nowhere near as efficiently as other heating technologies.

And what they actually do instead? A neutrinos?

I'm not sure what you're asking, but electric heaters are specifically designed to produce heat. If anything, these power converters are designed to minimize heat production. Saying that it's okay to leave them plugged in and wasting energy because people have thermostats in their home so they contribute to heating the home and will equivalently reduce the use of normal heaters is ridiculous. They aren't designed to be heaters, I am sure they consume much more energy to produce the same amount of heat as a real heater.

And just where do you think the extra energy used to make that heat goes? Bananaland?

With the exception of a trivial amount of EM radiation, all electric heaters are 100% efficient.

PERIOD.

"They aren't designed to be heaters, I am sure they consume much more energy to produce the same amount of heat as a real heater." - Deathclock

And just where do you think the extra energy used to make that heat goes? Bananaland?

With the exception of a trivial amount of EM radiation, all electric heaters are 100% efficient.

PERIOD.

"They aren't designed to be heaters, I am sure they consume much more energy to produce the same amount of heat as a real heater." - Deathclock

Internal electronic controls, LED lights, whatever how do I know we aren't talking about a SPECIFIC product but a type of product.

The beauty of science is that you don't need to know.

Energy is always conserved so it doesn't go to Bananaland, although it might visit there for a figment of someone's imagination.

Hence no matter what the "enerty" is used for it is never used up, and ends up being degraded to heat.

You do remember grade 7 science don't you?

"Internal electronic controls, LED lights, whatever how do I know " - Deathclock

all electric heaters are 100% efficient. PERIOD.

No...

http://en.wikiped..._heating

"No..." - Deathclock

Now you are confusing electric consumption with electric generation.

Electric heaters convert 100% of the energy supplied to them to heat. Contrary to your earlier assertion, there are no practical losses.

all electric heaters are 100% efficient. PERIOD.

No...

http://en.wikiped..._heating

True, but I think non heat-pump electric heaters were implied here.

Ok, this discussion leads me to a question. How does a heat pump increase efficiency? An electric heater I can understand, 1KW of electric power is converted to 1KW of heat. There is no problem there. Now you put 1KW into a heat pump and supposedly get 1.1KW (or more) of heat out into the room. This sounds like perpetual motion to me ( with the proper heat engine ). I don't see how a 91% efficient heat engine/generator combination violates any law of physics.

Heat pumps pump heat.

You place a heat pump in a room and you use it to pump heat into the room.

The result is a room that has more heat in it than it would have if the heat pump did nothing but convert the energy it used into heat.

I fail to see the problem?

Heat pumps pump heat.

You place a heat pump in a room and you use it to pump heat into the room.

The result is a room that has more heat in it than it would have if the heat pump did nothing but convert the energy it used into heat.

I fail to see the problem?

No...

Electric heaters convert 100% of the energy supplied to them to heat. Contrary to your earlier assertion, there are no practical losses.

"The overall efficiency of any heating or cooling system is given by the Carnot cycle. While it is true that electrical heating loses little energy to other sources such as chemical reactions, as is the case with oil or gas heating, the system is limited by the temperature difference being created. A more detailed explanation can be found on thermodynamics or the Carnot cycle."

Contrary to your earlier assertions electronic heating is never 100% efficient, and the efficiency scales with the heat differential between the heating element and the environment being heated.

Ok, this discussion leads me to a question. How does a heat pump increase efficiency? An electric heater I can understand, 1KW of electric power is converted to 1KW of heat. There is no problem there. Now you put 1KW into a heat pump and supposedly get 1.1KW (or more) of heat out into the room. This sounds like perpetual motion to me ( with the proper heat engine ). I don't see how a 91% efficient heat engine/generator combination violates any law of physics.

A heat pump acts to simultaneously absorb heat from one environment and then release that excess heat into another environment. The amount of heat that can be absorb is proportional to the temperature differential between the environment itself and the medium of exchange.

If anything, these power converters are designed to minimize heat production.

Anyways: these chargers produce heat at any time of day and night - summer or winter. So while one may argue that they help heat the home in winter they also make it necessary to use your AC even more during the summer.

This is a net waste (since AC is a lot more wasteful than heating)

"The overall efficiency of any heating or cooling system is given by the Carnot cycle." - Deathclock posts nonsense from Wikipedia.

Lean some science doofus and then get back to us.

Why do people even live in such a hell hole. Is the weather really worth putting up with all the Flakes, Fruits and Nuts?

Yes, the weather is that good. But mostly, I think it's the attempt to get as far away from red state lunatics that pushes people to the coasts. The reason people live along the coast of CA is because we haven't found an economical way to get a few miles further away from middle America. Once we perfect floating cities I'm sure we'll float ourselves out to sea.

deathclock: give it up, you're wrong. It would be about 99% (at least) as efficient as a space heater of the same wattage in the room. However, when the AC is turned on you would be fighting the AC raising your electric bill with the wall warts, so in the winter, more or less it's a zero sum game, during the other seasons it is indeed waste heat. However, aside from miniscule IR and other EM power emanated the wall warts are very efficient heaters. If you don't believe this you need to take a basic physics class.