New WikiLeaks 'spy files' show global surveillance industry

Most people have no idea how we are drifting towards a spooky future. Google "surveillance fan letter" and see what I mean.

"surveillance fan letter" is fiction. Assange has a big ego, delusions of grandeur, etc. No one person should represent Wikileaks, he has hijacked it for his own petty need for attention.

"Amesys delivered the Libyan authorities equipment and had no control over the use to which it was put," said the firm

Yes, if you sell a gun to a lunatic, whatever happens is not your responsibility. Some companies must be ran by amoral psychopaths! (Psychopaths in the sense that they show no empathy to other human beings.)

he has hijacked it for his own petty need for attention.

He may be eccentric or whatever else you wanna call him, but that still doesn't change the facts that WikiLeaks reported.

Some companies must be ran by amoral psychopaths

Well, that's just what unchecked capitalism will get you. Those without morals have the edge over those who have some in the marketplace.

We should be so proud of our capitalist system. Anything for the highest bidder.

it sure aint capitalism, adam smith is turning over in his grave!

he has hijacked it for his own petty need for attention.

Yes, being hated by probably all governments and any corporation that preforms nefarious activities is exactly the kind of attention a person would crave.

When is this dumbass going to go away. His 15 minutes are over.

Some companies must be ran by amoral psychopaths

Well, that's just what unchecked capitalism will get you. Those without morals have the edge over those who have some in the marketplace.

We should be so proud of our capitalist system. Anything for the highest bidder.

Idiots like you are ruining this country. Capitalism made this the most powerful and prosperous country the world has ever seen. If people like you achieve your goal we will live in poverty and crime. Then you will realize your idiotic approach. It will be too late. I will fight your foolish idiology to my last breath. Liberalism, socialism = complete mental illness.

Some companies must be ran by amoral psychopaths

Well, that's just what unchecked capitalism will get you. Those without morals have the edge over those who have some in the marketplace.

We should be so proud of our capitalist system. Anything for the highest bidder.

Claptrap, opinions, negativity. Not a shred of fact or reality.

You are right about one thing, we should be proud of our capitalist system.

he has hijacked it for his own petty need for attention.

Yes, being hated by probably all governments and any corporation that preforms nefarious activities is exactly the kind of attention a person would crave.

Do you think that you just somehow proved your case?

What incredible naivete.

Do you not understand the human concept of narcissism?

Idiots like you are ruining this country. Capitalism made this the most powerful and prosperous country the world has ever seen. If people like you achieve your goal we will live in poverty and crime. Then you will realize your idiotic approach. It will be too late. I will fight your foolish idiology to my last breath. Liberalism, socialism = complete mental illness.

If by "this country", you mean America, just an fyi:

1) antialias is not American. Or he claimed that anyway. Or someone else did. Can't remember. I think he's German. Anyway, he's a flaming left-wing liberal socialist.

2)You'll find on this board that a large majority of commenters enjoy America-bashing and yet are so cowardly as to NEVER respond when asked their country of origin. It's truly funny.

3) PhysOrg -- this website -- is based in England.

This is really non-news. I mean, did anyone think this was new? Or that it wasn't going on at all? In one sense, you could say that the industry they're describing goes back to our earliest ancestors' tribal scouting. But, certainly in the modern age this has been a very profitable business since WW1.

Capitalism made this the most powerful and prosperous country the world has ever seen.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism - if it is kept in check.
Capitalism can be great for competition and making businesses strive hard to get the best product out at the best price.

However, left unchecked it is a runaway process which leads to monopolies (financially and politically). Monopolies do the opposite of what makes capitalism great: They stifle innovation (or outright discourage/punish it) and do no longer care for the best product.

as always you live in a world of black and white. But neither works (not unchecked capitalism nor feel-good communism). We need something in between. But with national rules vs. global businesses the checks no longer work.

I think he's German.

Yep.

as always you live in a world of black and white.

Who is "you"?

The one whom I quoted (the knifeman).

Upon rereading I would like to add that being a 'powerful' nation or a nation where a minority are prosperous aren't really great metrics for comparing places to live in.

Happiness, sustainability (of said happiness), export of happiness (i.e. not generating your own happiness at the cost of the unhappiness of people eslewhere) and the ability to adapt to future challenges seem much more sensible metrics.

Happiness, sustainability (of said happiness), export of happiness (i.e. not generating your own happiness at the cost of the unhappiness of people eslewhere) and the ability to adapt to future challenges seem much more sensible metrics.

Happiness is an awfully esoteric quality. Virtually impossible to define other than in generalities. There has been much research that indicates we don't even really understand what it is that makes us happy.

Happiness for one person might be getting high all day and driving around in traffic. Happiness for another might be actively proselytizing in order to convert the "heathens" to whatever religion.

I would have a problem with either of these.

Happiness for one person might be getting high all day and driving around in traffic. Happiness for another might be actively proselytizing in order to convert the "heathens" to whatever religion.

As noted - both these would be happiness at the expense of decreasingthe happiness in others.

But I find happniess a much better metric than (military) power or number of super-rich in determining which country I find 'great'.

Happiness for one person might be getting high all day and driving around in traffic. Happiness for another might be actively proselytizing in order to convert the "heathens" to whatever religion.

As noted - both these would be happiness at the expense of decreasingthe happiness in others.

But I find happniess a much better metric than (military) power or number of super-rich in determining which country I find 'great'.

This may be kind of nit-picky, but would you then find a country where everyone was, say, a Muslim fundamentalist, who derived happiness through the forced conversion of other people, to be a great country?

a Muslim fundamentalist, who derived happiness through the forced conversion of other people

Since 'forced conversion' implies force (i.e. an act that is contrary to someone's happiness) this is a pretty clear case of: No - such a country would not be 'great' in my book.

a Muslim fundamentalist, who derived happiness through the forced conversion of other people

Since 'forced conversion' implies force (i.e. an act that is contrary to someone's happiness) this is a pretty clear case of: No - such a country would not be 'great' in my book.

Well, I'm bored of this one. But, I wanted to say that despite the problems defining it, I believe your system of ranking by happiness would be superior to many others. It's sad as hell that billions upon billions of people have been born, lived, and died while being miserable the whole while. And, it's entirely preventable. Just not easily so.

Wikileaks should concert to a distributed encrypted system similar to FreeNet and Bittorrent.
It would release them from having to fund its website and make surveillance intractable.

"surveillance fan letter" is fiction. Assange has a big ego, delusions of grandeur, etc. No one person should represent Wikileaks, he has hijacked it for his own petty need for attention.

Never mind who, or with what motive. I will deside for myself what the data obtained is worth as information. That's what this is about I think.

Wiki Leaks is freaking the whole world's hypocrites. We got to see real picture of what is actually happening around us. Assange's the real super hero of 21st century, Standing in the line of fire even in front of world's Super Power.
We have to accept, he's doing what we must do against cruel and inhuman people.

Capitalism made this the most powerful and prosperous country the world has ever seen.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism - if it is kept in check.
Capitalism can be great for competition and making businesses strive hard to get the best product out at the best price.

However, left unchecked it is a runaway process which leads to monopolies (financially and politically). Monopolies do the opposite of what makes capitalism great: They stifle innovation (or outright discourage/punish it) and do no longer care for the best product.

as always you live in a world of black and white. But neither works (not unchecked capitalism nor feel-good communism). We need something in between. But with national rules vs. global businesses the checks no longer work.

I think he's German.

Yep.

There has never been 100% true Capitalism in the United States. That's a fact. Capitalism has always been compromised and diminished by politicians who realized the value of bowing to

those Leftists whose agenda was to destroy the U.S. economy and remove the Capitalist system and replace it with Socialism/Communism. The churches in the U.S. were entrusted with the task of providing for the poor, invalids and orphaned children. They did a lot of good for the people who were in dire need of help.
These days, the churches are attacked for their work with the poor and discouraged from helping those in need, by restrictive regulations from the U.S. government. Politicians have always practiced double-dealing to get votes in order to keep their posts in political office. It is rare to find an honest politician who truly wishes for Capitalism to succeed. Capitalism has also been besieged by dishonest men and women with criminal intent to dupe innocent people who wished to invest and grow their money for their own purposes. The criminals understand the basics of Capitalism, and they understand loopholes

What you call Capitalism in the U.S. is only a shadow of the great system it could be. There are too many phony plastic banana humans who don't like other humans, and wish to cheat them out of their hard earned money. That's the criminal element in our societies. . .all over the world. That's why Capitalism is hated so much. . . .they're not hating the criminals....only the system that would work otherwise.

Person of Interest, anyone?

All the unwanted/unfriendly/awkward/unpleasant/dull people should kindly be asked to search for a way out.

Pirouette: It's human nature to cheat. If a system is vulnerable to cheaters, it sucks. It's the same way with communism. True capitalism and true communism are both pipe dreams, we need to work out something else.

The more you move towards one of the two extremes, the more corrupt it will be. Democracy has shown us that some systems can be better, for example by making sure no one is in power for too long, the tendency to be corrupted is diminished (never eliminated of course). So there *are* solutions.

In my opinion, two important remaining problems are:

1. Positions of power in political parties, unlike in public office, have no time restriction, which (IMO) fosters corruption at this level. (Debatable of course.)

2. Too much permeability between political and corporate positions (you should choose one and stick with it; I don't care if that means you can't get rich by being a politician, no one forces you to be one, you can't get rich by being a teacher or fireman either).

Jotaf. . .it's not the Capitalist system that sucks, it's as you said of cheaters. But it's not all human nature to cheat. Cheating is a LEARNED process, babies are not born with the ability to cheat. In fact, a study was done to see if babies approve of the theft of a toy. The study used puppets. It was shown that babies as young as 8 months disapprove of one puppet stealing the toy of another puppet and displayed happiness when the thief was reprimanded or punished. Cheating and theft are practically synonymous, and adults who cheat or steal have learned to do so by a process of diminished sense of morality. The good sense of morality is important to the complete success of Capitalism. The "free market" areas of Capitalism depends largely on morality and the free enterprise system. Without the sense of morality, the true Capitalist system, as well as honest Capitalists cannot hope to succeed, and others suffer as a result also.
However, Communism is based on Collectivism, and it. .

doesn't foster morality, a sense of fairness, or free enterprise. Communism has been proven unworkable time and time again, in that it FORCES people to cheat, lie and steal in order to eke out a living.
The 2 problems you mention are some of the reasons why there has never been true Capitalism in existence. 1) Corruption countermands honesty and a sense of fair play in a Communist or Socialist society. Altruism is only pretend when everyone is grasping desperately to just get by, and the politicians are busy watching out for dissension that might topple them.
2) A good example of the display of political and corporate cronyism is that of the Obama administration. His support of bailouts for their favorite industries with tax money shows no free enterprise whatsoever. In free enterprise, the failing companies MUST be allowed to fail, no matter what the cost, for the simple reason that they are not trustworthy to succeed, but will continue to fail otherwise.

Failure in business is NOT a terminal disease. All one has to do is to be far more innovative than all other competitors and begin again from the bottom up. Without innovation and a forward approach to business, it will continue to fail no matter how much money government pours into it. Most Conservative business people know these guidelines and they know enough to hire the RIGHT people for each job. If the new employee is wrong for the job, it should NOT be allowed that Union leaders be the ones to determine if the employee is kept on the job even if he/she does poorly. But in Communism, that employee would be still on the job no matter what, and the business is likely to fail.

Julian Assange is an enterprising businessman who, if he hadn't gotten in hot water over alleged wrongdoing, might have had better support for his (quite innovative) business. He exposes corruption in so many areas of government, business, etc. I like that. That's what the world needs. . .for the ugly truth to be told.
With truth, Communism cannot succeed because Communism depends on lies and the threat of violence and incarceration for its enemies. The good, decent people of the former Soviet bloc know these things. They lived under oppression for so long, and they are curious to find out what it is about Communism that enthralls so many sympathizers about that system. They can't understand the workings of the minds of Socialist and Communist sympathizers, and believe those people to be insane. I believe they are too.

Jotaf. . . .there is NO middle ground, sorry to say.

The good sense of morality is important to the complete success of Capitalism.

You know absolutely NOTHING about capitalism or any system based in reality if you can actually type that sentence with a straight face.

Any good system will NOT rely on morality. Christ, have you read anything about the writing of the US Constitution? Have you read even an excerpt of any of the Federalist Papers?

SERIOUSLY?

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary." - James Madison

Seriously, why don't you put down the Ancient Aliens and Glenn Beck and actually pick up something of substance?

The Federalist Papers are available freely online.

http://thomas.loc...ers.html

10 and 51-56 are my favorites.

LOL. . . .I KNEW that FrankHerb$hit would show up in this and all threads where I comment. For everyone's edification, I have read and understood ALL of the Federalist Papers AND the U.S. Constitution AND I read all the bills that are introduced in Congress.
FrankHerb$hit believes in entitlements for all people on welfare and has decided that white people in the U.S. must be eliminated UNLESS they are Liberals/Socialists/Communists.
HE IS ALSO A BIIIIG RACE-BAITER WHO TELLS LIES ABOUT PHYSORG MEMBERS, TO try to LEAD PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT HIS VICTIM IS A RACIST OR BIGOT. This person is sick in the head, but I will leave it for other people to decide. Please note the lies about morality he is spewing in the comment below mine.
I will not respond to such a lying idiot, whether Liberal or not.

Nerdyguy says:
""This may be kind of nit-picky, but would you then find a country where everyone was, say, a Muslim fundamentalist, who derived happiness through the forced conversion of other people, to be a great country?""
The very nature of Muslim Fundamentalism begs for the conversion OR annihilation of that part of humanity which doesn't subscribe to the Muslim belief in Quranic dogma. In the radical Muslim religion, violence and death are the order of the day if a populace doesn't wish to be subjected to that which opposes the freedoms to which the populace reveres and prefers. Thus, people of Israel and the Western countries must be murdered wherever and whenever they are found by loyal Muslims. Since religious fervor is a powerful craze, I often wonder why it is that JEWISH people can be found in countries like Iraq and Pakistan. They are also, or were, in Libya and Morocco. They must know that they are targets because they are white, but also because of their Jewishness.

The video of Daniel Pearl being beheaded in 2002 evoked a lot of nausea in many people, and yet, Jewish people will STILL travel to Muslim countries where they can be kidnaped and murdered. I don't understand this type of thinking.

For everyone's edification, I have read and understood ALL of the Federalist Papers AND the U.S. Constitution

If you had, you wouldn't have been caught dead saying this:

The good sense of morality is important to the complete success of Capitalism

AND I read all the bills that are introduced in Congress.

This is a total lie. No person can claim this. Obviously you are not claiming what is literally there, unless you really are insane, which is quite probable. Maybe you honestly believe you've read every bill introduced in congress.

Please note the lies about morality he is spewing in the comment below mine.

You sure like to call people liars a lot. Where did I lie?

The only factual statement I made in that post was quoting James Madison. "If men were angels, no government would be necessary."

Are you taking issue with the quote, the accuracy of it? What?

Do you even understand what a lie is?

LOL. . . .I KNEW that FrankHerb$hit would show up in this and all threads where I comment. ...
HE IS ALSO A BIIIIG RACE-BAITER WHO TELLS LIES ABOUT PHYSORG MEMBERS, TO try to LEAD PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT HIS VICTIM IS A RACIST OR BIGOT. This person is sick in the head, but I will leave it for other people to decide. Please note the lies about morality he is spewing in the comment below mine.
I will not respond to such a lying idiot, whether Liberal or not.

Agreed. Does the same to me and multiple others.

Obviously Pirouette is afflicted with some sort of mental disorder, so I won't label him as a liar. However, I do feel the need to address his labeling of me as such because he does it quite often anytime I point out he is making a totally inane or inaccurate statement, which nearly all of his comments fall into those categories.
Every time I criticize him he says I "misquote" him, even if I didn't quote him to begin with, then he calls me a liar, and refuses to address the point in any specifics.
The whole misquoting thing actually started when I quoted him as saying there are "transparent" animals on Mars rather than "semi-transparent[sic]", like there is any difference. Semi-transparent isn't even a word, I was simply translating his quote into English.
Either way the whole "semi-transparent martian" crap is a perfect example of his total lack of worth in any discussions on this site.
Here is the site: http://www.marscr...pot.com/
That site is the product of a diseased mind

Yes. . . .anyone who is interested in Martian life forms SHOULD view the pictures in my girlfriend and her sisters' website. I find the pictures on the first page very interesting, particularly the first set of "water, oil or a gel" AND the second set that shows the Martian life forms who appear to be humanoid in form. They cast shadows on the rock face behind them. Please observe the very distinctive "helmet" that one of the life forms is wearing on "his" head. It's not such a stretch to figure the possibility of SIMULTANEOUS EVOLUTION of humans on Earth and these life forms on Mars. Take your time in viewing and understand that anthropogenics doesn't necessarily occur on every planet in the known Universe.

Most of the pictures in other sets are very interesting, and sometimes beautiful, geology. Perhaps you might also be interested to find that there is a picture of a "crystal tower" in one of the earlier sets of pictures. The crystal tower has straight lines and is semi-transparent or semi-translucent and is almost laying down, but not quite. The text explains that a cataclysm must have occurred and several towers fell down. Some broke in pieces but at least 2 towers are still intact. There is also the picture of something that looks almost like a conveyor belt, but is probably the result of the cataclysm on some kind of roadway, IMHO.

Yes please, anyone who doubts my interpretation of Pirouette's mental state, please check out that website. Here is another link to it. http://www.marscr...pot.com/

This isn't as simple as "oh Pirouette is cooky, he thinks there are Martians." The site which is either maintained by him or his girlfriend, is the product of a diseased mind. All one has to do is view it to come to that conclusion.

The author is literally seeing things that aren't there, then tries to rationalize it to other people as "transparency". View it if you doubt me.

As I've said, take your time. Use a magnifying glass if you have one, because many of the pictures were downsized by the web owners for some reason. We intend to bring the pictures back to their original sizes. NASA is aware of these pictures but are not interested in revealing them to the general public, as yet. They are in no hurry to tell about it.
Oh definitely, please do view it. And a good ability of facial and body recognition would be helpful too.

I welcome all opinions from true scientists and interested observers. We are not alone in this solar system. I don't understand how it happened, but I think it's a wonderful happening in any case.

We are not alone in this solar system.

Proof? Your girlfriend's glitter diary doesn't count.

Idiots like you are ruining this country. Capitalism made this the most powerful and prosperous country the world has ever seen. If people like you achieve your goal we will live in poverty and crime. Then you will realize your idiotic approach. It will be too late. I will fight your foolish idiology to my last breath. Liberalism, socialism = complete mental illness.

If by "this country", you mean America, just an fyi:

1) antialias is not American. Or he claimed that anyway. Or someone else did. Can't remember. I think he's German. Anyway, he's a flaming left-wing liberal socialist.

2)You'll find on this board that a large majority of commenters enjoy America-bashing and yet are so cowardly as to NEVER respond when asked their country of origin. It's truly funny.

3) PhysOrg -- this website -- is based in England.

Thank you for the info

@Pirouette - do you and your gf live in the Villages by any chance?