RQ-170 drone's ambush facts spilled by Iranian engineer
December 17, 2011 by Nancy Owano 
RQ-170 Sentinel. © TruthDowser / Wikimedia Commons / CC-BY-SA-3.0
(PhysOrg.com) -- In the aftermath of the Iran capture of a US military drone earlier this month now come arguments over how Iran managed to pull it off. An Iranian engineer’s exclusive interview with The Christian Science Monitor has been published, which details how the Iranians captured the drone through jamming. An opposing camp says the story is just that, a story, while others schooled in GPS systems say that the Iranians' technique is technically possible but they would not bet on it.
Iran’s story about the electronic ambush of America’s sophisticated drone, the RQ-170 Sentinel, is that their experts used their technology savvy to trick the drone into landing where the drone thought was its actual base in Afghanistan but instead they made it land in Iran. They used reverse engineering techniques that they had developed after exploring less sophisticated American drones captured or shot down in recent years. They were able to figure how to exploit a navigational weakness in the drone’s system. "The GPS navigation is the weakest point," the Iranian engineer told the newspaper.
Iranian electronic warfare specialists were able to cut off the communications link by jamming on the communications. The engineer said that they forced the drone into autopilot. That state is where “the bird loses its brain." The Iranians reconfigured the drone's GPS coordinates and they used precise latitudinal and longitudinal data to force the drone to land on its own. In doing so the Iranian team did not have to bother about cracking remote control signals and communications from a control center in the U.S., and the RQ170 suffered only minimal damage, according to the report.
Adding strength and credibility to that story were military experts saying that even a combat-grade GPS system is vulnerable to manipulation. According to a GPS expert at the University of New Brunswick in Canada, Richard Langley, it’s theoretically possible to take control of a drone by jamming.
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GPS satellites transmit on two legacy radio frequencies. The unencrypted code used by most civilian GPS units is transmitted only on the L1 frequency. The encrypted P code for military users is transmitted on both the L1 and L2 frequency. If the Iranians could jam the encrypted military code on the L1 and L2 frequencies then the drone’s GPS receiver might reach out to use the less secure code to get directions. Without encryption, it would be possible for an enemy to fool a drone into thinking it was elsewhere.While possible in theory, other GPS experts say it is a difficult feat and they express doubt that the exploit happened.
Some analysts think another possibility is that the aircraft malfunctioned independent of any Iranian electronic interference. Further doubt is expressed not only over whether it was technologically possible for them to overtake the navigation system but also to bring it down with such minimal damage to it. John Pike, defense expert from GlobalSecurity.org, was quoted as saying he thought the drone exhibited by the Iranians looked like a parade float in that it was remarkably intact.
© 2011 PhysOrg.com
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Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (16)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.5 / 5 (8)
Remember that these systems are remotely operated by government sponsored video gamers and not by pilots aboard nor boots-on-the-ground warriors. Bradley Manning was sitting in the next cubicle over. This is the modern-military's "oops."
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (16)
A trojan horse-style distraction.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (10)
I suggest you put automatic self-destruct systems and remote control your unmanned aerial vehicles.
Suggest that the air force carried out an international ideas competition to find new guidance systems that can not be damaged.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (13)
Most readers here could accomplish the GPS attack described here, if they were given a year to prepare and some money for what they need to buy.
This gives credibility to Science Fiction stories where a technologically superior adversary is defeated by exploiting a trivial oversight in the design. There always seems to be one, even in real life.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.9 / 5 (14)
...*rubs hands together*
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (27)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (19)
How will peace look like after an US-Iran war?... Not much different than today. I am watching this as I watch a football match and my favorite team is Iran. Iran please obey your masters in command from Washington otherwise you will be punished ( sarcasm ).
USA is spreading tyranny and poverty lately rather than freedom and prosperity.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4.4 / 5 (16)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.6 / 5 (21)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.1 / 5 (15)
They probably do - but why would it self destruct if it thought it landed at the right place? and as long as there's jamming going on no outside trigger will be able to detonate the device.
Which is actually fairly trivial if you have a working cell phone network. Stealth craft swallow EM radiation. This is picked up by cell phone towers as a drop in signal strength and they try to compensate. By tracking which towers are affected in sequence you can get a very exact trajectory of low flying stealth craft.
(Most trivial would be visually spotting it, though)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4.7 / 5 (14)
If you are not striving to develop these systems and improve them under actual combat conditions then the enemy will and you will be usurped. It is not something you can choose to avoid.
The equation of life is based on competition. Population pressure is what drives this. Either your tribe gets the food or the other tribe gets the food. Either your tribe gets to fill up the earth or they do. Needless to say these imperatives can generate some pretty serious conflict and some major technological advance.
Tech is only evolution externalized. Our claws became knives.
Dec 17, 2011
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Dec 17, 2011
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Dec 17, 2011
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Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.9 / 5 (18)
Well, it is quite big - 26 meters wing span and when it crash landed in the desert their most sophisticated detection system - hordes of goat shepherds had no problems spotting it.
Really! Personally I prefer Made in the USA tyranny and poverty over the Iranian freedom and prosperity.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4.5 / 5 (16)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4.7 / 5 (6)
The need for an overhaul would be a clue that there is a problem beyond the "accident" claim, and that there is a need to change something.
Not a proof mind you but a clue...
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.5 / 5 (15)
Imagine that GPS satellites are knocked out by solar storm. A critical system should not rely on GPS any longer.
After all the drone has been insufficient designed.
USA does act like a dictatorial country putting down smaller more rebellious countries.
Enemies are needed to keep the massive military complex busy for centuries to come. Peace means unemployment, war means staying busy and prosperity.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (8)
The 'news' on our side was silent because events in this war were handled by the old rules. Money was being lost every day at sea when ships went down. Environmental disasters were being committed every day by both sides. Money being lost meant stocks were GONNA GO DOWN! and the truth told WHICH STOCKS! Delaying the truth to mass media gave an opening to special media available only to the rich to give this temporary inside information to their customers in Gucci shoes, Armani suits and Limos....so they could make TAX FREE money out of the world's suffering and blood...and short sale the loser stocks in all the world's stock markets.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 1.3 / 5 (6)
the Iranians will be able to redirect it to crash into Dimona?
The world could then become a lot more peaceful for it.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (10)
It's especially hilarious because as I've repeatedly said here and elsewhere, the trouble with using robots is that you never know when they might be used against you. What do you wanna bet the Chinese have already managed to get hacked chips inside our drones? They'll be laughing when they sell the activation code to Iran, and our bots turn right around and start mowing down our own troops.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 1.3 / 5 (21)
A viral agent (hidden within the envelope of a harmless virus on the shell of the drone) will activate in about five years and will wipe out the majority of the population who handled the drone and all those who have had contact with those who handled the drone (including government personnel).
As I said, it is probably just a rumor with little to no basis in fact. I doubt that the technology is available even to the US government to do something like that. But, if it turned out to be true, Iran's only out would be to incinerate the drone and all its components, and quarantine anyone exposed to the drone or to those exposed to others who handled it for the next five years to minimize further contamination.
But, as I said, it is most likely just a rumor. :)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 1.6 / 5 (7)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (4)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.6 / 5 (8)
A laser signal would be much harder to intercept and decode, because it would be an extremely focused beam only a few feet wide even by the time it disassociated a bit, rather than Radio, which disperses through the whole damn region and gets picked up by every reciever.
Ultimately, this just goes to show that nothing beats a human pilot.
It's pretty bad if the "ultimate spy plane" didn't have enough sophisticated instrumentation, programming, and backups to recognize a false signal.
What happened to passive backup systems, such as a common gyroscope and compass?
Why not have cameras on the top side of the craft looking at the sky, so it can self-navigate via the stars and sun?
See that? I can probably still think of at least 2 or 3 perfectly reliable, UNJAMMABLE nagivation systems.
Our engineers are incompetent..
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
Really? Thou Shall Not Lie? A muslim is just as "free" to lie as a christian. How about Ahmadinejad stating that homosexuals do not exist in Iran? Or when they welded together some barrels, painted them, and claimed they were Russian S-300 missile systems?
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4.3 / 5 (6)
How would that help if it thought it was landing in the right place? Or do you propose to self destruct an UAV on EVERY landing (or even on every low altitude maneuver during missions)?
If it has an inertial reference systems (and I'm not sure it does) these are backup features as best (because they are very inaccurate over long times). If the process was as the engineer described then that system wasn't called for as the GPS signal was present at all times - it just didn't show the right coordinates.
UAVs are designed for range. This means: As light as can be.
At some point you have to compromise on the types and number of systems you can lug along.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.2 / 5 (6)
How old is this tech? Arent GPS sats close to being obsolete? Giving 'enemies' the ability to provide respectable competition is a very good way of justifying critical expenditures, is it not?
The soviets were 'given' a great deal of tech during the cold war. The imminent threat of mutual annihilation justified the expenditure of trillions on the tech that both 'sides' have used to thoroughly subdue the world, and to produce many 1000s of tons of our civilization's most valuable tangible assets - fissionables.
And there are now new and very dangerous and very useful 'enemies'. Much Progress will ensue, affording more freedom, more options, and more security for what may well be the only intelligent species in a very perilous and unpredictable universe.
2 sides - 1 Coin. Every toss a Winner. EMPIRE
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (10)
Dec 17, 2011
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Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (3)
They do, but the aircraft's GPS was telling it that it has returned to base, so it had no reason to blow itself up.
This type of spoofing attack is entirely possible, and I have speculated about this exact scenario before it was released as news.
Stealth or not, this drone was probably flying the same route for weeks, enough time to figure out when it will be flying over the area again and orchestrate its capture. With a little bit of clever programming, which most entry-level software engineers armed with Google could easily do, you can intercept just about any drone anywhere without needing to know its route. All you need to know is its home base. You can set up a perimeter of jammers around your country/city/whatever that automatically lands any drone that ventures there. It's not rocket science, the GPS signals aren't encrypted - they're just timestamps sent from space.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
http://www.popula.../4318471
-The only Reason to maintain current defense systems and to develop new ones is if there are still enemies left to fight.Uh wouldnt you expect the military to know enough not to do this sort of thing? Even armored car pickup and deliveries are staggered. Duh.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.2 / 5 (5)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4.9 / 5 (7)
I'm surprised that site hasn't been shutdown considering the sophistication of the drones you can build with off the shelf technology. As for self destruct, well if the drone did have an engine failure, you would have to think that this is CAUSE to activate the chip fryer!!!! Intertial computing engines are always comparing with the GPS, so if the Iranians had tricked the GPS, surely the intertial system would have spotted the error, and said WTF, did I just warp through space?? Didn't the drone have a WTF routine on it????? Would be easy to implement!!!!
So either the yank drone was STUPID, OR it was given to the iranians in order for them to build dodgey drones. Much like the brits let the russians get hold of conchord plans, which led to the russians crashing all of their home built conchords!!!!
Dec 17, 2011
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Dec 17, 2011
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Dec 17, 2011
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@flashgordon. . pssst. . . ..the U.S. military LET them bring it down. . .so that Obummer and Clinton could put on a BIG show, practically teary-eyed so that Ahmadinejad would think he had good technology there in that little ol' drone. American Pentagon officials are not stupid, no matter how badly they are portrayed by the Leftist whackos.
Dec 17, 2011
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Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.7 / 5 (7)
Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
This thing flies a weee bit further than a quadcopter(it was downed 250km behind the Iranian border. So its operational range is 500km at the very least - probably much more)
It's basically a fueltank with wings and a tiny payload.
If it had an engine failure it would have crashed. Certainly it wouldn't look as good as it does. Even if it can glide in this does not provide it with a level landing field.
Why not? Intelligence and engineering skills are fairly evenly distributed the world over.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Dec 17, 2011
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Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (3)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (7)
To make the GPS think is was somewhere else would be extremely difflcult, and certainly any country with the technology to achieve this would already be technically capable of developing their own drones.
To achieve this feat would require generation of multiple PN codes with nanosecond accuracy for code phase, and picosecond accuracy for carrier phase, but these would have to be compensated in real time for the true position of the drone. GPS simulators, e.g. spirent are capable of faking a set of signals for a known position / track, but not in real time responding to the drones true position.
it's not impossible, but if you can do it then you're clever enough not to need to.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
Above is a complete nonsense! This aircraft is a slow flyer with a low wing load factor and high airfoil thickness. It's a self stable flying wing made entirely of composites. Such design provides a good gliding ratio and definitely it can always make a powerless landing without any damage.
It is like a big RC FPV plane. It's Autonomous Navigational System has limited capabilities as it was design to be actively remotely controlled all the times. The ANS system only kicks in if it experiences loss of communication or other major system malfunction. In such cases the onboard computer starts to maintain a pre programmed flight path - usually in such situations the autopilot maintains speed, altitude and heading.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.9 / 5 (7)
And they covered the bottom of the drone with stupid propaganda banners to hide the damage it suffered from the belly landing.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
I could build this airframe in my backyard from easily available components incl engines and mechanical equipment install the best FPV and RC systems and have in the air a few miles from home. It's been done by modellers around the world countless times. Give me more sophisticated navigational systems and I could fly it hundreds of miles away. And finally give me a military grade electronics and I could send you pictures of nudist beaches in Iran, ha, ha, ha!
A system failure without a crash. YES! Have you ever heard of Fail Safe mode on remotely controlled planes? A complete loss of power or communication puts the plane into a pre programmed flight path. Same features are found on all drones and military drones are just one category of them.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
how many fail conditions before inertial guidance maneuvers for stratospheric homing reacquisition or triggers auto destruct ?
thermite at a minimum ?
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
My Lord, I wish I was able to jump to conclusions so easily! I hope you're not a brain surgeon!
Have you had a chance to take a look at the belly of the drone? Probably not as they made sure it was well hidden from the view.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
I saw it and I noticed that it seemed to be caved in a bit. Did you see that?
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.2 / 5 (5)
The primary GPS based navigational system is backed up by an Autonomic Navigational System that kicks in and maintains pre programmed flight parameters based on the last recorded position before the loss of comm or GPS signal. As you said, it is highly improbable they were able to fake the GPS signals. But even if they managed to keep the GPS bandwith jammed the ANS will not allow them to take over the control of the drone as it is a "read only" system that executes only the stored procedures. Also time warping to force the drone to think it is in a Home Zone is impossible as it logs hundreds of flight parameters and anything received that does not match the flight record is ignored. The other thing is to get access to is its landing system. As far as I know it uses conventional manual landing system similar to RC planes and the computer will only activate it if dozens of certain conditions are satisfied.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (8)
YES! If they had an unscratched machine the would show the whole beauty of this American design and parade it with the landing gear down. It's simple like that. The problem is it belly landed and the bottom might have suffered a substantial damage that would certainly indicate a major component failure not a triumphant takeover of the United States property.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 4.8 / 5 (4)
The Iranian story is really funny. It now shows how little
they know.
You are correct, if GPS lost it still knows its position.
Iranians are so full of erroneous reporting its really
not worth reading.
The US Government will be billing the Iranian nation for hundreds of Billions of Dollars for the non-return.
By the time they figure the technology out the US will be
into more advanced technology making the technology as
useful as a buggy whip.
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 3.5 / 5 (6)
Dec 17, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
mrlewish, so what are you saying exactly? Just let Iran build nuclear weapon which they probably already have? Just let them fund Hezbollah and Hamas? Just let them rig fraud elections?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (53)
You know you're talking about the man that gave the order to take out the Somali pirates rescuing hostages and... you know... Osama bin Laden, right? He also just decisively ended the Iraq war literally minutes ago. It's over. That takes balls when dealing with violent morons like you.
You've forgot about bin Laden already? Maybe you should grow a pair and admit to yourself your entire ideology is intellectually and morally bankrupt and you might just put yourself on the path to becoming a decent person.
hehehe
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
Nobel Prize laureates:
Iran: 2 - Peace and Literature
United States: 333
Dear Mr. Lewish,
Sorry but your comments did not convinced me they have the abilities and that's pretty much based on facts. Do you really think we should let them play with nuclear power without supervision?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (2)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
hehehe
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (51)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (8)
The US has already been invaded by China. Have you ever shopped at Walmart?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (4)
That is my point. If I were a small country facing one as large as the U.S. and many of the people in the that country held me and my country in contempt.. I would try like hell to figure out how to produce a nuclear weapon. If you don't want an enemy don't treat someone like one.
Dec 18, 2011
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Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (55)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
...and this statement is based on what sources?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (6)
It's very difficult now to start a business in the U.S. thanks to Obummer.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (52)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (5)
@kochevnik the Bolshevik. . . .how did you like that calendar gal link I gave you, eh? A Russian babe . . .and hot. Did you like it?
:)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
My dear! You're a genius! Let's give nuclear arsenals to every country and we will never see any nation at war with another. You're my bet for the 2012 Peace Nobel Prize winners:)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
http://www.telegr...dar.html
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Making statements like the above assures me that you are one of a lot of Americans that buy china and aren't even aware of this. Did you know that domestic cars are on average only 70-75% made in the USA? Guess where the rest of it comes from?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (52)
How 'bout just the ones that paleocons want to invade?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (2)
No difference. You're still my candidate for the Peace Nobel Prize:)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (8)
Obama should have apologized profusely for violating Iranian Air Space.
Who do you pieces of Garbage think you are?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (8)
Ya, the Wallmart, Target, and all of the other American stores are empty.
"It's very difficult now to start a business in the U.S. thanks to Obummer." - Spirochete
Really? What Rules has Obama changed that make it so difficult?
Like so many of your Libertarian Claims, we can assume what you say is a lie until you show otherwise.
I have never encountered a Libertarian who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
Wise, moral, and ethical words.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
It is just another wonderful illustration of American Military Incompetence.
Five years ago Al-Quada was using a $20 software package purchased from Russia off the net to view the video that these drones were streaming back to their controllers, thereby enabling them to watch the watchers.
American Military intelligence seems to have fallen since then.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1.9 / 5 (9)
That is what the IAEA is for.
I for one wish Iran great success in it's nuclear power program.
The world needs more nuclear reactors right?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
asking the drone back is the ultimate facepalm.
Its like a burglar calling you the next day that he want to pick up some tools that he left in your house, anyway the iranians unable to show the undercarriage seems to indicate that whatever really happened, it was not full control of the drone, This leaves open other scenarios:
- GPS spoofing (hard to pull off, would probably need Russian or Chinese backing)
- system failure of the drone
- it could even be brought down with one of those old american F4 fighters that iran has, its not really a super duper stealth drone, it is good enough for taliban, but any country with medium tech radar and fighter could gho after it
As usual the iranian regime puts out bombastic statement as if they have written their own stuxnet to gain control over drones, their prop machina would want you to believe that iranian airforce has flying carpets...
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Paul Kintner of Cornell University did this in 2008 and said the apparatus could be made as cheap as 1000$. He did it inadvertently while simulating effects of solar storms on GPS navigation.
But if it wasn't guided it had no landing strip. Certainly it can glide in - but have you seen what happens to a glider that goes down in just any old terrain? Iran isn't flat.
But all of this is besides the point. They have it and now they're going to pick it apart. Just one way of having a technology transfer, I guess.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3.2 / 5 (5)
Actually, that's incredibly naive and foolish words.
People tend to be enemies just for the hell of it, or for no real reason at all, other than prejudice. Think of Hitler massacring Jews.
Personally, I'm starting to think Obama and our military leaders have committed treason in delivering our technology to the Iranians; this was, otherwise, too easy and too incompetent to be real.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (2)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Iran has a very healthy drone program, routinely sending them into Iraqi airspace. They are providing worthy competition with aiding and abetting from the west. This is how it is DONE.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
And you think you know this technology enough to educate us, eh? The GPS system is backed up with ANS and compares data with logs. "Time and space warping" can easily be detected by software. Practically the drone is only prone to a loss of engine and limited gliding ability greatly reduces the chances of flying it back to a Safety Zone.
First thing is to spot it and they DO NOT have radars capable of it. This aircraft maintains an alt of 15k ft and is made of composites which makes it transparent to Iranian radars. Making a visual contact from a fighter jet? What are the chances, tell me.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
15000 meters of course, my mistake.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Are you sure? Or is that just propaganda our military wishes you to believe?
Stealth technology was known to be less-than-perfect even in the first Gulf War, so they ended up using radar jammers to help mask the stealth bomber's signature.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
And I also have a very healthy drone programme and own a few highly sophisticated FPV planes. I built my own large scale composite RC sailplanes with wingspan over 4 meters from scratch. I know composite technology, vacuum molding and my background is in electronics. I can tell you my friend, if I had the money and the need to built my own drone I could do it in my backyard and there are at least hundreds of hobbyists worldwide that are able of it. And advanced navigational drone systems are commercially available. The problem is to get a military grade electronics and Iran does not have it. They got the RQ-170 with self destructed avionics, so they only have a nice RC plane, that's it. Slightly damaged but as you can see, their engineers already repaired the broken right wing with some duct tape, painted it with some household grade paint and brush, ha, ha, ha!
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (2)
AND it gives the west something to fear just when the Iraq war ends and everybody wants to cut budgets, especially R&D. PR is part of the peacetime deception I was referring to. Just like democrats and republicans, both sides will give each other ammunition in order to maintain a close race. Because it is most important that the people believe in the Illusion.
The first priority of either side is to maintain the Illusion. How else will you get the people to divide up and engage each other in conflict? The people are the true enemy of Leaders everywhere.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (5)
The RQ-170s have made countless missions over the Iranian territory since its introduction around 2005 and probably there is another RQ-170 drone or drones flying over Iran as we have this conversation.
I'm pretty sure they do not have the needed radars otherwise this drone would've been shot down. Russians probably have such systems but not for sale.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (5)
Your posturing and your bluster does not lead you to any greater understanding of how and why things happen. The US is only a smaller Part of a much larger Whole.
There are no sides left in this world. There is only one Side - EMPIRE - and it is dedicated to waging war against the people by dividing them up and setting them against each other in Manageable and Constructive ways, in order to maintain overall Stability so that Progress can ensue. As we can see that it has, and it does, and it WILL. Stasis is extinction and this is not an option.
This explains everything. Your bile is only a symptom of your thorough indoctrination. Dupe.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (3)
To prevent unauthorized users from using or potentially interfering with the military signal through a process called spoofing, it was decided to encrypt the P-code. To that end the P-code was modulated with the W-code, a special encryption sequence, to generate the Y-code. The Y-code is what the satellites have been transmitting since the anti-spoofing module was set to the "on" state. The encrypted signal is referred to as the P(Y)-code.
The details of the W-code are kept secret, but it is known that it is applied to the P-code at approximately 500 kHz,[citation needed] which is a slower rate than that of the P-code itself by a factor of approximately 20. This has allowed companies to develop semi-codeless approaches for tracking the P(Y) signal, without knowledge of the W-code itself.[citation needed]
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (2)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2.8 / 5 (8)
It's clear Obama is little more than a spokesperson: a puppet for the secret shadow government.
Is there a "Palpatine" in the background, playing all sides from the middle?
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 4.9 / 5 (28)
Yea, because everyone knows that nothing could possibly go wrong with a nuclear arms race in the middle east ruled by religious fanatics. Ya, am sure that Israel are praying for Iran to get a nuke, so that they can live in peace, finally.
Imbecile.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 4.6 / 5 (30)
The decision to take out bin-laden could have been made by a 3rd grader.
The Somali pirates rescuing hostages situation was purely political posturing on the part of Obama, because it was in the media,... otherwise it never would have landed on his desk.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
yes, it's possible to make GPS get an error in position, but that's completely different from making it compute that it's in a position that you choose, and when it's moving at high velocity this is even more difficult.
Additionaly, GPS antennas tend to be somewhat directional, so to overcome the signal when transmitting from the ground is even more difficult.
Then there's the small issue of the navigation solution using RTK information as well as GPS, when these don't agree how do you make it prefer the GPS solution and discard the RTK information?.
If I were building such a drone you can bet that it would not be that simple, and I don't doubt that the US engineers have exactly the same principles in mind when they design drones that are likely to be subject to jamming attempts. If the GPS cannot be trusted I would use the RTK information to re-trace the path to a safe area until GPS could be re-acquired and match the RTK data.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (3)
Now they would have us believe that they brought our drone down with such a lame story?
It would have been much easier to simply override our signals with stronger signals, and pilot the drone to a landing wherever they pleased, using the same control commands we do. But, of course, they don't want to openly admit it was them who were hacking us; that might be construed as an act of espionage, and an incitement to war.
On the other hand, it has been suggested that we deliberately allowed them to capture a drone, so that we could verify who hacked us; and of course, from the GPS information transmitted back to us from the drone, we now know where their 'secret retro-engineering base' is.
Of course, this is just my opinion; I could be wrong
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
The GPS engineer probably didn't have access to the flight control documents and some general now has consulting job with the company that build the defective hardware.
It is my belief that the Navy's nuclear fleet uses diesel, steal doesn't work and they never fly the B2 because it can't fly. This is just the nature of a capitalist build military.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
Wise, moral, and ethical words.
"Actually, that's incredibly naive and foolish words." - Nano
And that is why you will always be a failure as a person and a nation.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
It occurs to me that since the Iranians are smart enough to pluck an American drone out of the sky, they are probably smart enough not to land it at spy central.
Ya think? Sparkie?
Obviously not.
"and of course, from the GPS information transmitted back to us from the drone, we now know where their 'secret retro-engineering base' is." - Argoid
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
GPS gives you your location accurate to several meters, and then RTK provides the high resolution offset from that position.
"Then there's the small issue of the navigation solution using RTK information as well as GPS, when these don't agree how do you make it prefer the GPS solution and discard the RTK information?." - MIBO
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
It was made by a third grader. War Criminal and Mass Murderer George W. Bush Jr.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
The best way to make people want to hang onto something you have 'lost' in their yard is to ask for it back. I'm sure Obama has his reasons. :)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Here's where you're wrong, VD- George Bush, Jr. and Bush senior promised the Bin Laden family they would never touch a hair on Osama's head. Why? The Bushes and the Bin Ladens made zillions for each other, so, if the son of your business partner burned down your barn, are you going to forget who made you zillions by punishing the barnburner? It took another administration to exact vengeance.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
The Iranians dont have the ability to reverse-engineer it, and there was no fancy [ISR] technology on board, says a veteran intelligence specialist with insight into the program.
http://www.aviati...;prev=10
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
If you think you live in a country ran by tyrants you can always immigrate to a country of your choice where you can find freedom and happiness. I think you'd prefer Iran or Afghanistan. In the communist times East Europeans were faced with the same dilemma often risking their lives or lives of their relatives illegally crossing the borders. I think you will not leaving the US, will you? It's time you start planning your future or waste the rest of your life in Texas.
Dec 18, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
"He brought enormous shame on the family and for that he has been ostracised," he said. "My sister leads a quiet, unflashy existence in a beautiful house in Cairo and, along with the rest of the family, I know she is appalled at what has happened.""
http://www.telegr...ily.html
By Telek's 'logic', Osama should be held to account for his illegal immigrant aunt in Boston.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Actually you can see rather a lot of damage along the leading edges of the wings as well as the port wing being distinctly bent. As far as the bunting around the base I would suspect it hides rather a lot more damage they cannot disguise. I would suspect the only real involvement the Iranians had was the fact they control the ground it crashed on. The only really sensitive parts would have been sensors not the "carcass". Even the control electronics are not that sensitive. For example look inside a modern and brand new air data computer and you find the chip used is a Z-80 which was state of the art in 1976.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
As I said before the most probable cause of the crash is an engine failure. The avionics used on these drones are very reliable and secure. The Iranian claims are a bunch of lies and simply reflect the state of their technical culture and their lack of education. Bunch of retards trying to get their hands on nuclear technology!
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 4.7 / 5 (3)
1. The drone is nothing more than a large RC plane
2. Both governments are lying
3. The world is controlled by oil tycoons and warmongers
Righteo
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
http://en.wikiped...tability
The shape of these drones (and of other stealth craft) is dictated by the stealth requirements. Unassisted gliding ability is not part of the package.
For comparison look at what a UAV looks like that is designed to glide well (i.e. one designed for range instead of stealth):
http://en.wikiped...bal_Hawk
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
The most probable cause of the disinformation from "stripeless" is embarrassment over yet another American military failure.
"As I said before the most probable cause of the crash is an engine failure." - Stripeless
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
As for myself, I am no longer an American. I left several decades ago, when it became obvious that Republicans and Libertarians were plotting and acting to destroy the nation.
"If you think you live in a country ran by tyrants you can always immigrate to a country of your choice where you can find freedom and happiness" - Stripeless
As to the nature of Republican Tyrants, I note that Republican Newt Gingrich has just defended his public claim that if judges don't rule as Repubicans wish, Republicans have the right to have them arrested by a Congressional security force.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
I am sure we agree on this fact.
"I think you'd prefer Iran or Afghanistan. In the communist times East Europeans were faced with the same dilemma often risking their lives or lives of their relatives illegally crossing the borders." - Stripeless
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
If your claim is true, I would expect it to be made public by the Democrats.
Do you have any evidence for your assertion?
"Here's where you're wrong, VD- George Bush, Jr. and Bush senior promised the Bin Laden family they would never touch a hair on Osama's head." - Telekenetic
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Might typically doesn't succeed in doing anything by providing a temporary victory for the mighty while those who have been victimized, gather strength in order to destroy the "mighty" through any and all means possible.
Iraq and Afghanistan are just the latest two examples of America's perpetual military failure.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Clearly Obama is moral and civilized, while you and your Conservative brethren, are not.
"The best way to make people want to hang onto something you have 'lost' in their yard is to ask for it back." - Skepticus Rex
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
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Just an idea, with self-destruct option drone is vulnerable to explosion if hacked, including while being in the hangar next to other equipment or personnel.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
"Why don't these aircraft have self-destruct options on-board?" - Vantage
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
To the extent that BinLaden admitted to being behind the brilliant and exceptionally lucky attacks on the WTC, then yes, his execution was not an unreasonable or particularly immoral act.
Arrest would have been better. But arrest would have produced an ongoing security problem.
Arrest would have been preferred prior to the illegal invasion of Afghanistan and the war crimes committed by the U.S. that followed.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
The proper course of action would have been for BinLaden to provide evidence that he was not responsible rather than releasing video tapes indicating that he was.
Republican Lawmakers are now considering imprisoning their own citizens for life without trial in direct violation of the constitution, and Republican Lawmakers like Newt Gingrich are proposing that judges who do not rule as Newtie likes should be arrested.
BinLaden is the gift that just keeps on giving.
I salute him.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Firstly, there is no hard evidence that Bin Laden was involved in the 911 attacks. How do I know this? Well, the FBI website doesn't even link him to the 911 attack - http://www.fbi.go...in-laden
Secondly he never admitted to the 911 attacks. In fact, he denied ever being involved. The only "evidence" was a video which has a man who doesn't even resemble Osama Bin Laden talk about the attacks. If you want to know more about this fraud, read this - http://www.twf.or...den.html
Perhaps for his other "crimes" you could try and argue that assassination, rather than justice by the codes of law that the US claims to be fighting to uphold, is preferable. I for one don't.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
If your RTK info says you're changing velocity / direction then the carrier phase measurements should agree. But if the signal you're receiving is not coming from the GPS satellites then they will not agree, in fact the system jamming the GPS needs to compensate for this by computing the expected carrier doppler and also compensating for the effect of the doppler imposed by the drones relative velocity to the transmitter, which needs to be done in real time.
Difficult enough with a target that has a good radar image, but given that these are stealth aircraft tracking the position and velocity in the first place accurately enough to be able to compute the required doppler is difficult enough.
Actually applying the required doppler to the signals and re-transmitting them in real time is much harder.
It's not like they carry a beacon that can be used for computing this information.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Remember that those drones aren't invisible to the eyes (and also not entirely to radar. Once you know where they are you can track them - even if the radar image is low).
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Vendicartoon has MISQUOTED Newt Gingrich. Newt said that if judges IGNORE Congressional requests for information, he would have them arrested. It has nothing to do with judges "ruling" according to either Party's wishes.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
The only way Obama is moral and civilized is that he cares about and loves his wife and children. Apart from that, in the role of leader of a nation. his actions and words are all a display of immoral deceit as he betrays the whole concept of liberty, freedom and patriotism, while he introduces a continuous litany of class warfare and war against job-creating businesses, even while promoting government investments in favored businesses with dubious success potential, all payed for by the American taxpayer dollar.
A truly civilized leader does not divide the people of the country, but UNITES them. He has done NOTHING to unite the American people, only to degrade them.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
If you were near me I'd kick your hind-end for calling me a conservative, ignoramus. You haven't the faintest idea about me. But, keep right on guessing. It'll do you no good.
By the way, if Obama is so civilized, why did he say what he did to other nations in his warning against their interference with Iraq? What of his invasion of Pakistani airspace? The list could go on...
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
If a drone loses contact, it will autopilot and land back at home base. It will use both intertial and GPS references to return, as well as other technology. As I think many have pointed out, it's easy to jam GPS signals but difficult to jam real signals while transmitting believable false signals.
As for stealth: stealth is a relative term. Everything transmits and we still haven't invented a true blackbody (i.e., nothing in our inventory is truly radar-absorbant)
It is likely there was a self destruct mechanism on critical electronic systems, although my knowledge of drones is limited here. Normally, these systems are manually activated.
You'd be surprised at the things we DON'T consider secret. People think the military is shrouded in secrecy. Some things are. Most of the time, though, the rest of the world can't afford US tech production and MX costs so they'll never persue it anyway
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (50)
Is it any surprise Pirouette would listen to this man as a voice of reason?
http://www.youtub...xDi0V_4A
This is the same BS that crazy liberals waged against Bush. Bush was a bad president, maybe a war criminal, but this? Not even Bush deserved this.
"The Paranoid Style"
http://karws.gso....yle.html
"It is hard to resist the conclusion that this enemy is on many counts the projection of the self; both the ideal and the unacceptable aspects of the self are attributed to him. The enemy may be the cosmopolitan intellectual, but the paranoid will outdo him in the apparatus of scholarship, even of pedantry. Secret organizations set up to combat secret organizations give the same flattery."
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
I don't have any "Wikileaks" memoranda, but this link, especially the "Historic Ties" section, says it all.
http://www.consor...711.html
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
http://www.guardi...worldwar
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
http://www.youtub...c2emtcvo
The RQ-170 has a limited natural directional stability due to the wingtip design dictated by low visibility requirements but it has gyros for improved stability and this thing can definitely make a nice powerless landing.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Tell us honestly, what do you think about the political situation in Iran?
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Aha, so you left America and went to... Texas as your Location shows and you surrendered your US passport to become a naturalized Texan. Is this weird or what?
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Possibly Taiwan, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippines, Mexico, Ecuador, Japan, Yugoslavia, oh and yes, China.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
LOL. . . .he's a man about town and a citizen of the worldddd :)
I don't believe the Texas story for one minute.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Thank you!
Now I fully understand his sympathy for the Iranian propaganda, ha, ha, ha.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
http://www.youtub...xDi0V_4A
... Obama will have the opportunity to get rid of his opponents, even with trumped-up charges.
This is the same BS that crazy liberals waged against Bush. Bush was a bad president, maybe a war criminal, but this? Not even Bush deserved this.
"The Paranoid Style"
http://karws.gso....yle.html
"It is hard to resist the conclusion that this enemy is on many counts the projection of the self; both the ideal and the unacceptable aspects of the self are attributed to him. The enemy may be the cosmopolitan intellectual, but the paranoid will outdo him in the apparatus of scholarship, even of pedantry. Secret organizations set up to combat secret organizations give the same flattery."
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
He made no such admission. The fakers on the tapes looked remarkably different that Osama. Anyone who met him in person, as I did, would know. Keep in mind that Israel has an entire branch of mossad Arab impersonators called the SOF which infiltrates groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and steers them toward actions that cast a favorable international light on Israel. They have dozens of impersonators on hand for ever major Arab figure. Since Israelis undercover can fool Arabs themselves, fooling Americans is child's play.
He was busy depositing a billion dollars cash that your government gave him. He made everyone really happy that day. Guess you didn't get the memo? Well at least Americans got the bill. Wonder why your government is giving a $billion to a "terrorist"/employee?
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (1)
You really think the Israeli's need U.S troops to bungle things? Since so many on this forum seem to get titillated by military toys, Israel has the best of them and sell the tech to the U.S. Sending U.S. troops to bail out Israel... HAH!
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Yes. But what about an engine failure deep within the enemy territory? Do you know how the system deals with this scenario?
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
The only reason why Israel has the best military weapons is that America gave them the technology and they improved on it. We also gave them billions of dollars each year, sold them new war planes, for which they paid us back with the money we had given them already.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Good to see an intelligent person getting involved on here.
This place has been full of mentally challenged ppl for awhile now.
I enjoyed every one of your above posts!!! Congrats Sir!!!!
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Considering how the West treated the Jews for centuries, supporting them is a refreshing change.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Now that the Persians are Muslim, they hate the Jews. What changed?
You hint at something here. Muslims treat women the way they do because they, the Muslim men, are weak and must institutionalize their laws so as not to tempt the Muslim men.
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
But Jewish women are not treated that way by Jewish men. Muslim men think that all Jewish men are p_______y whipped by their women, a view that Jewish women reenforce by their aggressiveness, whether in the U.S. or in Israel
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Dec 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
You can blame it all on Mohammed, the Muslim prophet. He set forth his rules and regulations that he enforced during his lifetime with a lot of bloodshed to those who did not accept his Quran. Of course, a THINKING person could not accept such nonsense as is in the Quran, but a lot of superstitious Arabs took it on faith and not logic.
You are mistaken if you think that Muslim men are weak, they are quite strong because their FAITH is strong. Their faith in the teachings of Mohammed is stronger than the Communist faith in Mao, because it is a religion, not just an ideology.
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
If it has an airstrip - but if the engine failure scenario were true then it had none.
I highly doubt that they have the type of algorithms on board that can survey the landscape, decide where the terrain is level enough and make a controlled landing on any such available surface and then maneuver around to it - all while being unpowered.
As I said: Even if it COULD glide (which I think it can't) it had no level ground to land on. Certainly it would have stubbed its nose on an unpowered landing over rough terrain.
But from the little damage observable it looks like it made a controlled landing at an airstrip (maybe without its landing gear deployed. Can't see how scratched up it is on the underside).
This could only happen if it were guided there.
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
That depends. Due to the nature of the design, it COULD glide for a short way but it would need to keep a high angle of attack to maintain speed. Without a vertical stabilizer, it would rely entirely on forward momentum for course corrections. If the software wasn't prepared for this, it's possible the plane would put itself into a stalling spin almost instantly, which would allow for a relatively slow but immediate descent.
@ Antialias, the landscape algorithms do exist
A last thought: the engines provide primary power. If there wasn't a backup, it would run out of power very quickly (proportional to batteries, of course, and who wants lots of heavy batteries on their light plane?)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
It is fine entertainment for everyone living outside of Iran, and a fine diversion for anyone living inside Iran.
Other than that, there is no significance.
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
I've been flying planes for decades and always and on any plane increasing the angle of attack always causes loss of speed and eventually leads to a stall. Maybe on your planet it works the opposite way. Do you have a degree in aerospace science?
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Planes with vertical stabs also rely entirely on forward momentum. Basic aerodynamics...
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
This design has a good static and dynamic stability also assisted with gyros on three axis. That means if properly trimmed it's a self flying plane and when disturbed it has a natural tendency to return to a stable flight. That of course means it can maintain a stable gliding path without the operator input.
Here is an example of the flying wing that does not use gyros or computers. Airbrakes work similar to a rudder and it can land with both engines dead same like the RQ-170.
http://www.youtub...gYmNb2a8
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
http://en.wikiped...ing_wing
The design is extremely efficient but is absolutely unstable if it loses power, as any B-2 pilot could tell you. While it might be able to maintain a stable glide path under battery power, it would still need the correct software to do so.
Since no one here has detailed knowledge of the RQ-170, it's arguable that it even has traditional airbrakes. Really, anything in this discussion thread about the jet itself is entirely speculative
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
I think, one can get more info from the North Korean propaganda than from your comments...
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
Sir, the question is: do you raise the wing's AOA to maintain the airspeed or lower it?
This aircraft flies at speeds well below the speed of sound, any expert can tell you that simply by looking at it. The thick airfoil and shape similar to Northrop flying wings determines its flying characteristics as self stabilizing.
The B-2 is a completely diff beast! It requires active control inputs to stay in the air and without computers it falls down the skies like a barn door!
NO! NO! This object has natural stability! Properly balanced and trimmed it maintains a safe gliding path without any power! That's it!
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Look closely at 0:34s. Do you know how traditional airbrakes look like?
http://www.youtub...vGszQhJw
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
Sorry but I really doubt you have any knowledge of aerodynamics.
http://insideraci...tack.htm
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
UMPIRE...
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
I see where the disconnect is... I used to design medium caliber ammo for aircraft. In that business, we refer to a literal angle of "attack" when describing how steeply ammunition will be fired. You're correct that this is probably not the standard use of the term. I sometimes get stuck in my old ways.
That being said, the B-2 isn't that much of a "different beast" than the RQ-170 in terms of aerodynamics. The flying wing style of plane is inherently unstable: this is a fact. All practical flying wings have extensive integrated electronics and are highly reliant on automatic computer control. I've canvassed an office of engineers in the business to give myself a sanity check and they all agree
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (6)
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
With the loss of the drone.
As with all spying incidents that go sideways: Finders, keepers.
And spying isn't equal to an act of war. An act of war is an aggressive use of (military) force that constitutes a threat to peace. While this is definitely a military action it isn't aggressive (nor is it a use of force).
But the term 'act of war' is very vague - and there actually does not seem to be an international definition of what constitutes one.
So the answer to your question is: However they feel like exacting payment.
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Fixed that for you.
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Technically, any violation of sovereignty (i.e. infiltrating airspace or installing spies) is an act of aggression that could be used as a means to call for war. However, as you point out, "act of war" is a vague term. Everyone spies.
There have been serious discussions lately trying to decide at what point we would openly retaliate for cyber attacks. The fog of war is no longer constrained to the battlefield
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
That is a real problem since you can never be absolutely certain where the attack originated from. attacking the wrong conutry might be a result.
Not that that hasn't happened in the recent past because of conventional attack (WTC->Iraq)...so nothing new there.
The issue is that there exists no precedent for reacting to cyber-atack. So one country or another might lose its nerve. This is pretty scary given today's possibilities of cyber warfare and intelligence manipulation.
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Yes, there is a very big difference in terms of aerodynamics. The B-2 is indeed an inherently unstable platform whereas the RQ-170 is self stable. Like this design:
http://www.youtub...bs1YlQvc
and does not require flying computers to achieve a stable controllable flight. The B-2 is like a flying barn door and without a computer helped steering cannot be flown.
These guys have a lot to learn, I'm telling you. Ask them how the flying wings of the WWII era were able to make a stable flight without ANY input from computers.
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
On the first day of Christmas they should send them a nuclear bomb!
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
A state of war has essentially existed with Iran since then.
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
The shah that ruled Iran before that was threatening democratic reforms (as well as reforms in womens rights, social securityand an industrial modernization program).
The the US and the UK couldn't have that. So theż backed the shia clergy to organize a revolt (The iranian revolution)
Which didn't stop the sales of arms (Iran-Contra affair anyone?)
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Khomeini was a champion of women's rights and democratic reform?
Contemporary complaints against the Shah was he was westernizing. Iranian students were scattered across the West attending university.
So for anti, as long as the majority decides, (democracy) it doesn't matter what they decide? The majority can subjugate the minority, which apparently is acceptable to anti. After all, that's democracy, majority, mob rule.
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
No. Mohamad Reza Pahlavi was. (Kohmeini is not a shah - he's an Ayatollah). Pahlavi felt the need of the country to change and started the reforms towards a more democratic and liberal Iran.
Kohemeini was in Exile and was brought back to take over power after the shah was ousted.
Just saying: before you go talking about enemies of the US you should open up a history book and see
a) who put them in power
and
b) why they are enemies of the US
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
....Who confiscated the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company winning the support of the Iranian communist party. Some capitalist!
March 15, 1951: Iran nationalizes the AIOC.
Putting this in context:
Jan '51, Massive Chinese/North Korean assault on United Nations-lines; Viet Minh offensive against Hanoi, Vietnam. ;
FEB '51: US performs nuclear test at Nevada Test Site.; Bread rationing in Czechoslovakia.
MAR '51: Beginning of high-profile trial of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in the USA, on charges of spying for the Soviet Union.;
Ali Razmara, Shah of Iran (1950-51), is assassinated. ;
Persia nationalizes Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.;
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
After all, that's why an Iranian govt signed a contract to form AIOC, to extract oil and provide royalties to the govt.
After the Iranian govt attacked the US embassy in 79, the US kept 4 destroyers slated for Iran and stopped supporting F-14.
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Dec 23, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
AIOC/BP was a govt owned company. Who owned Persia at the time oil concessions were granted? No one.
We have another example of how the socialism fails all sides.
Dec 24, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
In this way conflict could be more effectively Managed. Kurdistan for instance is a part of 4 countries. Kurds are the fastest growing ethnic group in the area. And so we can appreciate the Wisdom of this Intent. This also allowed for the Staging of conflicts such as the Iran Iraq war, Shia against Shia, which is expressly forbidden in the Koran.
Your perception of conspiracy is stunted.
Dec 24, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
The Empire negotiated with some Persian govt for oil rights in 1901. A different Persian govt unilaterally nullified that agreement.
Obviously there is a cost to imposing an empire or imposing nationalism upon society that does not wish it.
Yugoslavia is no more. Czech and Slovakia are independent. East Timor is independent.
Borders, language and culture define a nation-state.
Dec 24, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Imagine what the middle east would look like if shiites had been able to set their own borders and install their own leaders? Or if kurdistan had been allowed to congeal?
'Divide the people up and set these groups against one another.' This has been the only way to maintain Order. ALL countries are artificial. Belgium was constructed to provide a nest for leopold from which he could rape the congo. Germany is a great ILLUSION. Germanic peoples occupy the entire subcontinent. The german rus established russia.
And there is none more artificial than the USA. 'One nation [no its not] under god [smoke and vapors] with liberty [whats that?] and justice [whats THAT?] for all.
Another Agency to fulfill Mission. Ephemeral.
Dec 24, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Three Swedish Vikings responded and came to Russia. Rurik became governor of Novgorod, Sineus settled down in Beloozerg and Truvor in Izborsk. Two years later Sineus and Truvor both died and Rurik extended his rule over the whole country. Later two of his lieutenants went down to Kiev, nearly six hundred miles away, and conquered it. In 882 Oleg, Rurik's successor, came to Kiev in his turn. Having established his own leadership over numerous towns and tribes Oleg strengthened considerably the new Russian State and became its master. The new capital, Kiev, little by little became one of the richest towns in Europe.
Rurik's successors became a ruling dynasty in Russia for more than 700 years."
http://www.viking...sia/inde