New calculations suggest Jupiter's core may be liquefying

December 21, 2011 by Bob Yirka report

Jupiter

Enlarge

Jupiter. Photo courtesy of NASA

(PhysOrg.com) -- Jupiter, the largest planet in our solar system, may be causing its own core to liquefy, at least according to Hugh Wilson and colleague Burkhard Militzer of UC, Berkeley. They’ve come to this conclusion after making quantum mechanical calculations on the conditions that exist within the big planet. In a paper published on the preprint server arXiv, and submitted to Physical Review Letters, the two explain that because the gas giant has a relatively small core made of mostly iron, rock (partly magnesium oxide) and ice, and sits embedded in fluid hydrogen and helium all under great pressure from the planet’s gravity (which has created very high temperatures (16,000 K)), there is a likelihood that the core is liquefying due to the heat and pressure exerted on the magnesium oxide.

Calculating the possibility of the magnesium oxide liquefying had to be done to predict the outcome because recreating the environment that exists inside of Jupiter for experimentation purposes isn’t feasible. They have in essence shown that , when exposed to such high temperatures and pressure, has high solubility, which of course means a high probability of dissolving into a liquid. In a previous study, the team also made calculations showing that the core ice would likely be dissolving as well.

The findings suggest that Jupiter’s core might not be as big as it once was, though it currently weights about as much as ten Earth’s (the whole planet weighs as much as 318 Earth’s). This implies that the core could eventually be reduced down to nothing at all. And if that’s the case, than those who study exoplanets, particularly the giant gas variety, will have to do some rethinking, because those others might not have a core at all, contrary to conventional wisdom.

Unfortunately, the calculations the two performed can’t give a rate of erosion, thus a timeline for how long it’s taken for the core to come to its current size can’t be made, nor can predictions be made on how long it might take for the core to disappear altogether; both of which would be useful in helping to predict the ages of other gas giants out beyond our . Luckily, NASA has a space probe on the way to measure ’s gravitational field more accurately, though it won’t get there till 2016; that should give scientists plenty of time to consider the impact these new findings might have on their current models regarding giant gas planets.

More information: Rocky core solubility in Jupiter and giant exoplanets, arXiv:1111.6309v1 [astro-ph.EP] http://arxiv.org/abs/1111.6309

Abstract
Gas giants are believed to form by the accretion of hydrogen-helium gas around an initial protocore of rock and ice. The question of whether the rocky parts of the core dissolve into the fluid H-He layers following formation has significant implications for planetary structure and evolution. Here we use ab initio calculations to study rock solubility in fluid hydrogen, choosing MgO as a representative example of planetary rocky materials, and find MgO to be highly soluble in H for temperatures in excess of approximately 10000 K, implying significant redistribution of rocky core material in Jupiter and larger exoplanets.

via Wired

Journal reference: Physical Review Letters search and more info website

© 2011 PhysOrg.com

4.5 /5 (10 votes)  

Filter


Move the slider to adjust rank threshold, so that you can hide some of the comments.


Display comments: newest first

MorituriMax
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 1.7 / 5 (12)
It's probably our fault too, like everything else.
Isaacsname
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Ugh, I feel like I'm doing the same....
Sonhouse
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Anyone know how they came up with the idea that magnesium oxide might be part of the mix?
El_Nose
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
any clue as to why this phenomenal act might be starting to occur right now --
Osiris1
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
Could that core be settin up to start a fusion reaction and initiate Jupiter as a Star?
Nanobanano
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 2.9 / 5 (10)
any clue as to why this phenomenal act might be starting to occur right now --


It makes no sense within the "standard model" of SS formation.

After all, supposedly the planets accreted billions of years ago,and lost most of their heat since then.

Indeed, Jupiter is allegedly radiating away more heat than it receives from the Sun, therefore, if anything Jupiter "should" be solidifying and becoming more dense, not the other way around.

Additionally, according to NASA, Jupiter is supposedly shrinking in radius right now at a rate of a few centimeters per year.

Point being, if something has allegedly been cooling for billions of years, it should not suddenly start re-heating it's core. That's absurd and as they say, "Something's Gotta Give".
antialias_physorg
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 4.2 / 5 (5)
Could that core be settin up to start a fusion reaction and initiate Jupiter as a Star?

Jupiter's mass is too low for that.

any clue as to why this phenomenal act might be starting to occur right now

Where do you get the indication that this is staring just now?

Point being, if something has allegedly been cooling for billions of years, it should not suddenly start re-heating it's core.

Shrinkage means more density. More density means more gravitational effect closer to the core.

Remember that AT the core of any planet gravity is zero. gravity at a set distance outside, however, is the same if the mass stays the same. So the gravity magnitude can shift within a planet if the surface recedes (i.e. the distribution magnitude of gravity as a function of depth can vary if parts of it shrink not uniformely)

Higher gravity (i.e. pressure) at some depth can lead to heating and hence melting of volatile substances.

Just my knee-jerk analysis....
Osiris1
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
If it really does become a brown dwarf, what of its moons...er...new 'planets'?
stellar-demolitionist
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 4.8 / 5 (5)
any clue as to why this phenomenal act might be starting to occur right now --


Nothing implied that it is starting now. If the core does dissolve, it could have started a billion years ago, or it might not start for another billion years.

What is happening now is that better calculations of material properties at those densities are becoming available, and soon there will be a better measurement of Jupiter's density profile.

Combined those will place restrictions on what materials can be were inside Jupiter, and if any core dissolution has taken place.
antialias_physorg
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
If it really does become a brown dwarf, what of its moons...er...new 'planets'?

What of them? They'll contimue on exactly as before.
Argiod
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 2.4 / 5 (5)
So, what does this mean for Jupiter? What if Jupiter is NOT a planet at all, but a cooled off sister star to the Sun?

Would this re-ignite what I believe to be our Sun's sister star? What would the solar system be like with two active stars?
If it reignites, would that destabilize the system? How would it affect life on the Earth?
I'm not saying this is what's happening; but it deserves some consideration; and would make for a great new premise for a rousting good Sci Fi Thriller.
Pirouette
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 2.9 / 5 (8)
Morituri Max says:
It's probably our fault too, like everything else.


No, it's Bush's fault. :)
FrankHerbert
Dec 21, 2011

Rank: 0.9 / 5 (56)
Moderators please remove the above comment for being "OFF TOPIC". Thank you.
UnlimitedRealms
Dec 22, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Arigoid - Jupiter is too small in mass to ignite in to a stellar body and never has . And there was a movie about such a thing but it took an alien artifact to pull it off - Remember " 2010 - The Year We Make Contact " it was the sequal to " 2001 - A Space Odyssey ".
bewertow
Dec 22, 2011

Rank: 3.2 / 5 (6)
omatur is so annoying. I hope they put him in prison for child molestation already so he can stop posting all his nonsense.

antialias_physorg
Dec 22, 2011

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
What if Jupiter is NOT a planet at all, but a cooled off sister star to the Sun?

Jupiter is one of those 'stars that never made it'. It doesn't even have enough mass to be a brown dwarf.
Brown dwarfs are themselves substellar objects - i.e. no fusion going on - with between 13 to 80 times the mass of Jupiter.

So you can see: Jupiter has less than 10% of the mass it takes to even classify for the next higher (non-stellar) category. No. It never will be a sun and never has been.
Osiris1
Dec 22, 2011

Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
We really do not know everything. If we did we could simply drive there in our saucers and check it out, or would not need too inasmuch as we assumably would have already observed this many years ago. Immune to gravity wells, temperature and pressure....(observably by witnesses 'discredited by governments to at least have folks not listen to them even if those governments saw it "inconvenient to shoot them")[put this in for the pathoskeptiks], our craft could then see this first hand and THEN come up with a reason why...we always DO this after some principal like 'Einstein' gets broken. Watch 'em dance..on both sides with equal intensity. We see new stuff all the time, followed by those explanations that previously existed but were buried by their authors for fear of losing: jobs, house mortgages, child custody, their freedom!, etc. We are not certain of this either, but SHOULD watch! No danger to solar system unless Jupiter explodes! Or directs an X-ray jet this way..improbabl
rubberman
Dec 22, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Osiris....aren't those lyrics to a "beck" song?
LuckyBrandon
Dec 23, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
Could that core be settin up to start a fusion reaction and initiate Jupiter as a Star?


lol i had the same thing cross my mind...ah watch this thing convert into a star and really screw up our cozy orbit

Moderators please remove the above comment for being "OFF TOPIC". Thank you.

Don't defend Bush, you only help to vindicate the morons who supported him as a presidential candidate...his track record speaks for itself...
antialias_physorg
Dec 23, 2011

Rank: 3.3 / 5 (3)
lol i had the same thing cross my mind...ah watch this thing convert into a star and really screw up our cozy orbit

How would that screw up our orbit? The mass stays the same so the gravity stays the same.*

That's one of the things people don't understand (especially about black holes). These things don't suddenly have a bigger gravitational attraction after a star turns into a black hole (or after a ball of hydrogen initiates fusion and becomes a star). At the disteance equivalent to the radius of the former star's surface and beyond the gravity stays EXACTLY the same.

Only (very much) closer to the center of a black hole things get crazy.

*We'd just have a (tiny) bit more ligh. Jupiter has one thousandth of the mass of the sun and is 5 times as far away from us as the sun is. So even if it could turn into a sun it would only be marginally more visible than it is now.
Sinister1811
Dec 26, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (1)
Reason would also dictate that the same thing is happening to Saturn's core. Or is Jupiter marginally bigger than Saturn, so much so, that this could only happen on Jupiter?
Sinister1811
Dec 26, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
Could that core be settin up to start a fusion reaction and initiate Jupiter as a Star?


Doubtful. Jupiter doesn't have enough mass to support nuclear fusion. It's not even large enough to be a Brown Dwarf.
LuckyBrandon
Jan 08, 2012

Rank: not rated yet
@antialias - would the mass stay the same if said gases began to burn off?
antialias_physorg
Jan 08, 2012

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Ermm..where would they 'burn off' to? The stuff is atoms pre and post combustive reaction. As such every atom/molecule is still subject to gravity. The atoms in it still have the same mass - so they will stick with the planet just the same as they did before.

The sun loses a bit of mass due to ejection of mass in solar flares. But we're talking thermonuclear fires and massive magnetic fields here - none of which are part of what Jupiter can do.

Of course the solar radiation equates to a loss of mass (IIRC about 4 million tonnes per second)..but that is small fry compared to the size of the sun.
Shelgeyr
Jan 09, 2012

Rank: not rated yet
...the two explain that because the gas giant has a relatively small core made of mostly iron, rock (partly magnesium oxide) and ice, and sits embedded in fluid hydrogen and helium...


Ummm, no.

By which I actually mean "yeah, maybe", but this is the sort of statement that should NOT be stated as a fact since we flat don't know if it is true. It certainly MAY be, but we have no evidence to support that statement, and "evidence" is kind of "the big important thing" in science. Or at least it is supposed to be.

Since this study apparently takes this statement as a true factual given, the conclusion shouldn't be taken seriously. Even if their math is otherwise correct.
Rank 4.5 /5 (10 votes)
Relevant PhysicsForums posts
  • Distance of planets from stars and revolution
    created5 hours ago
  • revamping general concept and cosmological principle
    createdMay 25, 2012
  • Transiting Exoplanet Light Curve
    createdMay 25, 2012
  • Math behind Theoretical Physics
    createdMay 24, 2012
  • Do we know whats at the center of galaxies yet?
    createdMay 23, 2012
  • Structure of the Milky Way?
    createdMay 20, 2012
  • More from Physics Forums - General Astronomy

More news stories

Land and sea species differ in climate change response: study

(Phys.org) -- Marine and terrestrial species will likely differ in their responses to climate warming, new research by Simon Fraser University and Australia’s University of Tasmania has found.

Space & Earth / Environment

created 3 hours ago | popularity 3.7 / 5 (3) | comments 2 | with audio podcast

Yale study concludes public apathy over climate change unrelated to science literacy

Are members of the public divided about climate change because they don't understand the science behind it? If Americans knew more basic science and were more proficient in technical reasoning, would public consensus match ...

Space & Earth / Environment

created 5 hours ago | popularity 4.8 / 5 (4) | comments 11 | with audio podcast

10 million years needed to recover from mass extinction

It took some 10 million years for Earth to recover from the greatest mass extinction of all time, latest research has revealed.

Space & Earth / Earth Sciences

created 5 hours ago | popularity 5 / 5 (3) | comments 1 | with audio podcast

Sophisticated simulations predict future warming

The chances of our planet being hit by a global warming of 3 degrees Celsius by 2050 is as likely as it being hit by an increase of 1.4 degrees, new research shows. Presented in the journal Nature Geoscience, the British study ...

Space & Earth / Earth Sciences

created May 22, 2012 | popularity 4.4 / 5 (9) | comments 51

Aliens don't want to eat us, says former SETI director

Alien life probably isn’t interested in having us for dinner, enslaving us or laying eggs in our bellies, according to a recent statement by former SETI director Jill Tarter.

Space & Earth / Space Exploration

created May 25, 2012 | popularity 4.4 / 5 (14) | comments 40


Nvidia trumpets Tegra 3 phone design wins for 2012

(Phys.org) -- Nvidia’s competitive war paint has a name, Tegra 3. On the heels of Nvidia announcements about lowering costs of its Tegra 3 processors and Nvidia-enabled tablets running Android Ice Cream ...

'Unzipped' carbon nanotubes could help energize fuel cells, batteries

Multi-walled carbon nanotubes riddled with defects and impurities on the outside could replace some of the expensive platinum catalysts used in fuel cells and metal-air batteries, according to scientists at ...

T cells 'hunt' parasites like animal predators seek prey, study shows

By pairing an intimate knowledge of immune-system function with a deep understanding of statistical physics, a cross-disciplinary team at the University of Pennsylvania has arrived at a surprising finding: T cells use a movement ...

Computer model used to pinpoint prime materials for efficient carbon capture

When power plants begin capturing their carbon emissions to reduce greenhouse gases – and to most in the electric power industry, it's a question of when, not if – it will be an expensive undertaking.

Change in developmental timing was crucial in the evolutionary shift from dinosaurs to birds: study

At first glance, it's hard to see how a common house sparrow and a Tyrannosaurus Rex might have anything in common. After all, one is a bird that weighs less than an ounce, and the other is a dinosaur that ...

Scientist: Evolution debate will soon be history

(AP) -- Richard Leakey predicts skepticism over evolution will soon be history. Not that the avowed atheist has any doubts himself.