China orders nationwide emission cuts by 2015
A woman wears a mask as she rides a bicycle in Beijing, October 2011. China ordered local governments to reduce emissions of "major pollutants" by as much as 10 percent by 2015, amid growing public anxiety over the country's bad air.
China on Tuesday ordered local governments to reduce emissions of "major pollutants" by as much as 10 percent by 2015, amid growing public anxiety over the country's bad air.
Authorities will also start to monitor the smallest and most dangerous airborne pollution, known as PM2.5, in densely populated areas such as Beijing and Tianjin, the government said in a statement on its environmental targets.
"Total emissions of major pollutants should be reduced significantly by 2015," the State Council, or cabinet, said, listing a number of pollutants including sulphur dioxide, but not carbon.
"Urban and rural drinking water supply and environmental security should be protected effectively, water quality should be improved greatly and heavy metal pollution should be controlled effectively."
China also vowed to "significantly" improve safety measures for nuclear energy production and speed up the elimination of "old automobiles and motorcycles" registered before 2005.
The announcement comes amid growing public debate over pollution in China, where more than 30 years of rapid economic growth has left the country's air, soil and waterways severely contaminated.
Millions of Chinese went online to vent their anger after thick smog blanketed Beijing earlier this month, raising health fears and causing hundreds of flights to be cancelled.
Public angst in the Chinese capital over heavy pollution has been compounded by official data showing air quality is good, or only slightly polluted, when smog is visible and figures published by the US embassy rank it as "very unhealthy".
Chinese authorities currently use a method known as PM10, focusing on larger particles in the air.
But the environment ministry has proposed adopting the system favoured by the US embassy, which measures PM2.5.
Protests over environmental pollution are also increasing. In the latest incident, residents in the southern town of Haimen stormed government buildings on Tuesday to protest against a power plant they say is damaging their health.
(c) 2011 AFP
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Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Correct, because CO2 cannot be efficiently captured and sequestered in any heat engine, since the process of capturing the exaust reduces the efficiency of the generators.
Even in the most idealistic scenario it is not possible for the Chinese to reduce carbon emissions by 10% in 5 years. In fact, they are more likely to increase carbon emissions by about 20% in the next 5 years or so.
Replacing an entire infrastructure with "new and improved" or "alternate" technology would require several decades of focused efforts.
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
The reason they threw in the "but not Carbon" phrase at the end of the second paragraph is because of Global Warming.
You are correct though, a few PPM worth of CO2 doesn't make any difference as far as human or animal respiration.
The only point I was making is it's not possible to address the CO2 problem without a complete overhaul of technology, and that takes decades.
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 3.4 / 5 (5)
One unfortunate barrier for China is that they have a political culture that does not promote honest conformity to regulations such as the ones mentioned above. The local officials will report that they are in compliance, but it's impossible to know if they really are or not because they do not have the infrastructure needed to enforce such regulations adequately. It takes a lot of highly trained people to carry out proper environmental testing and such.
Dec 20, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
That's the only way to get true readings. But these doctors and scientists must be credible in their work and not be corruptible with bribes of money or gifts. . .or even threats.
Dec 21, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
To be honest, by 2025 it will be a no brainer on the need to remove greenhouse gasses from earths atmosphere. It will effect us all.
Dec 21, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (6)
Before 2025, you will see the executions starting for the denialists.
Have your list of names ready.
"To be honest, by 2025 it will be a no brainer on the need to remove greenhouse gasses from earths atmosphere. It will effect us all." - howhot
Dec 21, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
That would likely be a positive step, but China is NEVER going to agree to that.
Dec 21, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
You realize that methane seepage isn't a new thing, righ? There is natural petrolium and methane seepage anywhere there is petrolium under the ground. Are you saying that the new developement is that, due to melted ice, the methane is now able to get out from under the ice? I would not argue against that, but that methane would eventually make its way out from under the ice anyway in time. If a hole opens up, it just lets it escape faster. By contrast, if we see the Arctic ice start to recover, it should result in the opposite.
Or are you confused and think they are talking about melting methane cathlates on the ocean floor? That's not happening.
P.S. I wouldn't want VD on MY side.
Dec 21, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Dec 21, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
@howhot - The above link was provided me another poster. If this isn't the one you read, check it out. They are indeed talking about the methane clathrates on siberian arctic continental shelf. The lead researchers also provide input regarding the size of the plumes coming from the ocean floor, along with some graphics as to what may be causing the increase. They also speculate as to how dangerous they feel this is should it continue. After I read it I researched a number of supporting papers to check accuracy...they aren't exaggerating.
Dec 21, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Grachev and Severinghaus 2005
and
Petrenko et al. 2009
or
Fischer et al. 2008
They all agree, as does the IPCC ar4 (page 796) that methane clathrates are not an issue. Look to the tropical wetlands in stead. Apparently rotting and pooping things emit more methane than clathrates.
or here:
http://www.eureka...2109.php
Dec 21, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
http://www.nzhera...10773020
and this one is another.
http://www.dailym...-newsxml
Maybe 2015 VD?
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
My suggestion would be to give Semiletov a grant extension and keep sending him out to the ESCS to monitor the plumes for a few years. The danger of this event unfolding needs to be verified.
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
I would actually suggest an independent confirmation from another group entirely. His result is way different than every other group that's gone up there before. I cited several different groups that all agree with one another. Don't place too much confidence in a new study that has been neither peer reviewed nor confirmed by follow-up studies.
It is worth looking into, but send another group with their own equipment.
Either way, it's irrelevant due to the relatively small emissions we're talking about here, in comparison to methane emissions from tropical and temperate sources. It's a drop in the bucket.
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Dec 22, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Yes, and if this guy is correct about the quantity, then I wouldn't be surprised to see funding come from fosile fuel exploration companies. ...if they can get the permits from the relevant governments. If so, they will use their own people and their own equipment, so they will be able to give a good independent confirmation or denial of what that guy estimated.
That's really far off topic though. For now, I'll stick with the two year old research which has been thoroughly peer reviewed, published, and backed up with follow-up study. You can go with the two week old press release if you want.
Dec 24, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
On another note, from what I can tell from the paper by Semiletov being reference by both yourself and Howhot, the source of the methane bubbling up from the depths is NOT believed to be from destabilizing methane clathrates; rather, the source is from methane trapped beneath permafrost--
Dec 24, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Nota bene, I say this more for clarity's sake than anything else; from reading the other sources you posted, GSwift, the source of methane during the termination of the last interglacial appears to have been largely from wetlands, and not from either clathrates OR permafrost disintegration. However, as the methane releases referenced in the various papers you referenced all occurred in much colder times than our own (it was, after all, during an ice age), it's not clear to me that the lack of significant releases of methane from permafrost then precludes similar releases now.
Dec 24, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Dec 24, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (1)
Developing countries are bound to pollute but they can at least mitigate the damage they cause in the name of progress. It took us a much longer time to industrialize so it spread out the damage over centuries, rather than decades. The Chinese are blessed with technology that the first industrialized countries did not possess when they began the process, so China's industrialization is hastened, also its pollution. Industrialization is all fine and dandy as long as you can survive it!
This will be good for the world and particularly the Chinese. Good for them!