Russians desperately try to save Mars moon probe (Update)

Nov 09, 2011 By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV , Associated Press
The Zenit-2SB rocket with Phobos-Grunt (Phobos-Soil) craft blasts off from its launch pad at the Cosmodrome in Baikonur, Kazakhstan, early Wednesday, Nov. 9, 2011. The daring Russian mission to fly an unmanned probe to Phobos, a moon of Mars, and fly samples of its soil back to Earth was derailed right after its launch by equipment failure.(AP Photo/Oleg Urusov, Pool)

A Russian space probe aiming to land on a Mars moon was stuck circling the Earth after equipment failure Wednesday, and scientists raced to fire up its engines before the whole thing came crashing down.

One U.S. space expert said the craft could become the most dangerous manmade object ever to hit the planet.

The unmanned Phobos-Ground craft was successfully launched by a Zenit-2 booster rocket just after midnight Moscow time Wednesday (2016 GMT Tuesday) from the Russian-leased Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. It separated from the booster about 11 minutes later and was to fire its engines twice to set out on its path to the Red Planet, but never did.

Russia's Federal Space Agency chief Vladimir Popovkin said neither of the two engine burns worked, probably due to the failure of the craft's orientation system. He said space engineers have three days to reset the spacecraft's computer program to make it work before its batteries die.

The mishap is the latest in a series of recent launch failures that have raised concerns about the condition of Russia's space industries. The Russian space agency said it will establish its own quality inspection teams at rocket factories to tighten oversight over production quality.

The $170 million Phobos-Ground was Russia's first interplanetary mission since a botched 1996 robotic mission to Mars, which failed when the probe crashed shortly after the launch due to an engine failure. Mars has two moons, Phobos and Deimos, and the latest spacecraft aimed to take ground samples on Phobos.

James Oberg, a NASA veteran who now works as a space consultant, said it's still possible to regain control over the Russia space probe.

"With several days of battery power, and with the probe's orbit slowly twisting out of the optimal alignment with the desired path towards Mars, the race is on to regain control, diagnose the potential computer code flaws, and send up emergency rocket engine control commands," Oberg said in an email to The Associated Press. "Depending on the actual root of the failure, this is not an impossible challenge."

In this Nov.2, 2011 photo distributed by Russian Roscosmos space agency on Wednesday, Nov. 9, 2011, Russian space engineers work to prapare the unmanned Phobos-Grunt probe on the Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan. The daring Russian mission to fly an unmanned probe to Phobos, a moon of Mars, and fly samples of its soil back to Earth was derailed on Wednesday, Nov. 9, 2011, right after its launch by equipment failure.(AP photo/ Russian Roscosmoc space agency, HO) EDITORIAL USE ONLY

He warned, however, that the effort to restore control over the probe is hampered by a limited earth-to-space communications network that already forced Russian flight controllers to ask the general public in South America to help find the craft. Amateur astronomers were the first to spot the trouble when they detected that the spacecraft was stuck in an Earth orbit.

If the controllers fail to bring the Phobos-Ground back to life, the tons of highly toxic fuel it carries would turn it into the most dangerous manmade object ever to fall from orbit, Oberg warned.

"About seven tons of nitrogen teroxide and hydrazine, which could freeze before ultimately entering, will make it the most toxic falling satellite ever," he said. "What was billed as the heaviest interplanetary probe ever may become one of the heaviest space derelicts to ever fall back to Earth out of control, an unenviable record."

The spacecraft is 13.2 metric tons (14.6 tons), with fuel accounting for a large share of its weight. It was manufactured by the Moscow-based NPO Lavochkin, which has specialized in interplanetary vehicles since the dawn of the space era.

The company also designed the craft for Russia's botched 1996 launch and the two probes sent to Phobos in 1988 also failed. One was lost a few months after the launch due to an operator's mistake, and contact was lost with its twin when it was orbiting Mars.

In contrast with the failures that dogged Soviet and Russian efforts to explore Mars, a succession of NASA's landers and rovers, including Spirit and Opportunity, have successfully studied the Red Planet.

If Russian space experts manage to fix the Phobos-Ground, it will reach Mars orbit in September 2012 and land on Phobos in February 2013. The return vehicle is expected to carry up to 200 grams (7 ounces) of ground samples from Phobos back to Earth in August 2014.

It is arguably the most challenging unmanned interplanetary mission ever. It would require a long series of precision maneuvering for the probe to reach the potato-shaped moon measuring just about 20 kilometers (just over 12 miles) in diameter, land on its cratered surface, scrape it for samples and fly back.

Scientists had hoped that studies of Phobos' surface could help solve the mystery of its origin and shed more light on the genesis of the solar system. Some believe the crater-dented moon is an asteroid captured by Mars' gravity, while others think it's a piece of debris from when Mars collided with another celestial object.

Popovkin admitted the mission was risky and its failure would badly dent Russia's space prestige, but added it was essential to preserve the nation's technological expertise in robotic missions.

China has contributed to the mission by adding a mini-satellite that is to be released when the craft enters an orbit around Mars on its way to Phobos. The 115-kilogram (250-pound) satellite, Yinghuo-1, will become the first Chinese spacecraft to explore Mars, studying the planet during two years in orbit.


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User comments : 83

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rawa1
4.5 / 5 (8) Nov 09, 2011
I don't wish such a failure to Russians and it's lost for whole world science. But I'm not very surprised with this result. The Russians can still produce amazing technology, but their quality assurance processes are in decline. They just need the organization level, which their post communistic country based on improvisation is not able to provide.
Ober
4.3 / 5 (8) Nov 09, 2011
This is bad news. I hope they manage to rectify the problem, as the last thing the world needs now, is for Russia to lose confidence in their space program.
Osiris1
4.6 / 5 (9) Nov 09, 2011
C'mon guys, you have some of the best programmers in the world. I know you can do it.
javjav
1.1 / 5 (13) Nov 09, 2011
This is weird. All you need to align for the first engine fire is to know the position of the earth and the sun, plus the details of your current orbit, or even less than that . Use this to align it manually, fire the engine, and let the fine tuning for later. You will get months of extra time to fix the software.
Blakut
4.7 / 5 (12) Nov 09, 2011
Quickly, russian space control, call javjav, he's got the answer!
javjav
1 / 5 (10) Nov 09, 2011
Yeah Blakut. I will also give them your name. At this moment they have some people looking for a solution, but sure they have more people looking for a guilty. I think you match the second category.
ScienceFreak86
5 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2011
Wish them luck! You will do it guys
Blakut
5 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
LOL javjav, learn to take joke...
nononoplease
1.8 / 5 (19) Nov 09, 2011
If this were a thread about an American probe all the third worlders here (that includes Europe, minus England and Germany) would be clapping their hands in glee. Of course, since it's the probe of a nation guilty of killing tens of millions of its own people ("political enemies") and fostering nuclear programs in Syria and Iran we can all cheer for them (huh?).
omatumr
1 / 5 (11) Nov 09, 2011
What an intriguing "coincidence!"

www.msnbc.msn.com...deck/msn

The aliens are not extraterrestrial!
kaasinees
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 09, 2011
The thing that saddens me is the wasted resources that otherwise could have been greatly spend. I hope they fix it soon.
kaasinees
1.7 / 5 (6) Nov 09, 2011
If this were a thread about an American probe all the third worlders here (that includes Europe, minus England and Germany) would be clapping their hands in glee. Of course, since it's the probe of a nation guilty of killing tens of millions of its own people ("political enemies") and fostering nuclear programs in Syria and Iran we can all cheer for them (huh?).


Wow, such ignorance. Germany is not even close to the richest country in Europe. Luxembourg is nr1 and Netherlands is nr2, Germany is nr8 and the uk is nr10. (sorted by GDP (PPP))

http://en.wikiped...an_Union

Most of america is third wolder anyway, most of the money is concentrated in cities like NYC, oakland, las vegas, atlanta(?).
A lot of countries in the EU are like the states, some have a lot some have not much.
Nerdyguy
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 09, 2011
Wow, such ignorance. Germany is not even close to the richest country in Europe. Luxembourg is nr1 and Netherlands is nr2, Germany is nr8 and the uk is nr10. (sorted by GDP (PPP))

http://en.wikiped...an_Union

Most of america is third wolder anyway, most of the money is concentrated in cities like NYC, oakland, las vegas, atlanta(?).
A lot of countries in the EU are like the states, some have a lot some have not much.


Yes Kaasinees, if you sort by per capita GDP you change the order. But since literally no one but you would do that, the rest of us will still acknowledge Germany, France and the UK as the largest European entities. Get your facts straight.

And where did you get the idiotic notion that most of America is third-world? You appear to get more clueless with each passing day.
kaasinees
1 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
Yes Kaasinees, if you sort by per capita GDP

Fail. i said GDP (PPP) not PPC.
you change the order.

Oh gee, maybe because luxembourg and netherlands and belgium is very small compared to germany?
But since literally no one but you would do that,

Fail #2.
They even have special categorizations NUTS-1 and NUTS-2 (but you didn't read the whole page did you? Germany is still #5.
Get your facts straight.

Learn to read. Dumbass, you are nowhere near deserving the title of a nerd. FYI nerds have a little more intelligence than geeks and general population.
And where did you get the idiotic notion that most of America is third-world? You appear to get more clueless with each passing day.

wikipedia:
According to the U.S. Census Bureau data released Tuesday September 13th, 2011, the nation's poverty rate rose to 15.1% in 2010

Lets say 45 million people.
How many people are just above the poverty line?

cont.
nononoplease
3.4 / 5 (8) Nov 09, 2011
Yes, and our "poverty" line still consists of people who are more wealthy than the majority of Europeans.

However, as would have been obvious to anyone with the reading comprehension of at least the average American seven-year-old, the point of my original post was not to debate the distribution of wealth in the world, but rather to point out the hypocrisy of ubiquitous mediocrities like you who continually berate the US while simultaneously celebrating failed communist regimes such as the one in Russia that have murdered their own people and support nuclear weapons programs of avowed terrorist states.
CapitalismPrevails
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
Yeah i totally predicted this would happen. Check out my comment on this physorg article posted before the launch.

http://www.physor...oon.html
nononoplease
3.6 / 5 (5) Nov 09, 2011
"Wow, such ignorance. Germany is not even close to the richest country in Europe. Luxembourg is nr1 and Netherlands is nr2"

You're an idiot. I live in Italy right now, and everyone here is talking about Germany bailing them out, not Luxembourg. Per capita is meaningless in this case. Everyone in Europe knows that it is Germany's economy which is driving the entire EU.

"Most of america is third wolder anyway, most of the money is concentrated in cities like NYC, oakland, las vegas, atlanta(?)"

You're an idiot. Those cities happen to have the richest few people (like Warren Buffet) but it also has all of the poorest people. The rest of the nation, outside of those cities, is made up of a quite prosperous middle class (especially relative to Italy, France, all of Eastern Europe, and the rest of the world), despite the best efforts of people like you to strangle it.
antialias_physorg
3.2 / 5 (5) Nov 09, 2011
and support nuclear weapons programs of avowed terrorist states.

Like Israel...Oops... they're not classified as terrorist states (but if we use the definition by which the US classifies 'terrorist states' then Israele - and the US itself - fall squarely into that bracket)

So I wouldn't use that type of argument too much to delineate one group from another. the US and Russia (and China and most other nations) are much more alike in how they treat their underlings than it is in the interest of the governments to be known.
Nerdyguy
2.3 / 5 (6) Nov 09, 2011
I wouldn't use that type of argument too much to delineate one group from another. the US and Russia (and China and most other nations) are much more alike in how they treat their underlings than it is in the interest of the governments to be known.


There is some merit in your position that nations will use careful wording to identify their opponents and then often turn their heads while their allies do similar things.

However, I find it preposterous that you could even pretend to categorize the U.S. and Israel along with the aforementioned "terrorist states" (e.g., Iran, North Korea).

Israel and the U.S. are stable democracies and, while any country has problems, they are supported by their citizens. It's absurd to even attempt to compare them on equal footing.
Pirouette
2.3 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
@kaasinees
Unfortunately, you are correct. The demographics of poverty in the U.S. is climbing higher as the unemployment checks run out for so many, and the jobs are no longer there. Even small businesses are afraid to hire because they are afraid that their customer bases will dwindle as people lose jobs and have no money to buy goods and services. It's a very vicious circle that has happened here and other countries. Even Red China's base minimum wage is only the equivalent of $2 an hour. That's one of the reasons why American firms went overseas to hire cheap labor. American unions and their incessant demands for higher pay to bad workers forced the run to factories overseas. Let's face it, an awful lot of Americans are, and have been, lousy workers. They were not offset well enough by the good workers and the good ones have suffered because of it. I don't see any way out of it now.
antialias_physorg
3.9 / 5 (7) Nov 09, 2011
However, I find it preposterous that you could even pretend to categorize the U.S. and Israel along with the aforementioned "terrorist states" (e.g., Iran, North Korea).

You are completely right. Neither Iran nor North Korea have led any wars for pure profit or with complete lack of justification. Nor are they engaged in fostering terrorist organizations and regimes on nearly the level that the US (and Israel) are.
And how dare they want to have a single nuke when these aformenetioned countries have hundreds and tens of thousands respectively.

I'm deeply sorry for trying to lump the two together.
Pirouette
3 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2011
I feel a little sad for the Russian space program community. This mission was to be their one shining moment and now it has flopped. It could be caused by a "small" thing, like a faulty nut and bolt. Russia hasn't exactly had the best manufacturing record even since the reign of Czar Nicholas. But now, we have a new fear that if the fuel falls back to Earth, all that hydrazine, etc. might poison the Earth. Who can you blame for this? Maybe it's time for the Russians to ask American scientists and engineers for help.
Nerdyguy
3.3 / 5 (7) Nov 09, 2011
@kaasinees
Unfortunately, you are correct. The demographics of poverty in the U.S. is climbing higher as the unemployment checks run out for so many, ...


Ridiculousness. Unemployment numbers just went down to 9%. So, 91% of people seeking employment in the U.S. HAVE A JOB!

Both of you need to quit watching so much television. The state of reality and the state of things being described on the news don't necessarily jibe.

Could things be better? Yes. Is unemployment high relative to numbers from the last hundred years? Yes, it's on the high end. Is it Armageddon? No. Just a normal economic cycle.
Nerdyguy
2.1 / 5 (7) Nov 09, 2011
However, I find it preposterous that you could even pretend to categorize the U.S. and Israel along with the aforementioned "terrorist states" (e.g., Iran, North Korea).

You are completely right. Neither Iran nor North Korea have led any wars for pure profit or with complete lack of justification. Nor are they engaged in fostering terrorist organizations and regimes on nearly the level that the US (and Israel) are.
And how dare they want to have a single nuke when these aformenetioned countries have hundreds and tens of thousands respectively.

I'm deeply sorry for trying to lump the two together.


Your head is clearly so buried up your ass that you are having a difficult time perceiving reality. We could spend all day going back and forth I suppose. However, you are obviously an ideologue with an axe to grind. Grind on fool!
antialias_physorg
3.9 / 5 (7) Nov 09, 2011
However, you are obviously an ideologue with an axe to grind.

Not really. I'm just saying that the black and white people (like your good self) should read a little more and get a bit more experience of the world outside what their nation is telling them.

Propaganda is not limited to some nations. Evil deeds are not limited to some nations. There are no 'good' nations and 'evil' nations (much less nations that are somehow guided by a moral compass) - every single one is looking out for themselves and employing strongarm tactics when they can. They all try for the same goals with the same methods.
yyz
5 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
There is some additional info on the status and nature of the malfunction at this site: http://www.russia...nch.html

Unfortunately it still looks like they may have only two days to attempt any rescue of this mission. Wish them the best of luck!
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (5) Nov 09, 2011
Yes, it would be awesome to harvest material fom Phobos and get it back. Though that system they have for transferring stuff from the box outside the lander to the recovery capsule seems extremely prone to congestion. I hopethey toroughly tested that with more than simple 'simulation objects'.

Also to do some spectroscopy right there and see if Phobos was originally a part of Mars or got caught later on (which would give new input to the debate on the Moon-Earth system formation)
HeloMenelo
1.7 / 5 (6) Nov 09, 2011
Anyone know where this thing is going to ditch when it comes down if it does "gotta know where to dig that trench if it hits near me" Seems like falling man made stuff from space is the norm these days.
omatumr
1 / 5 (9) Nov 09, 2011
I feel a little sad for the Russian space program community.


Do not weep for the Russian space program community!

We might have weeped when Richard M. Nixon announced the end of the Apollo program on Jan 5, 1972. See: Claud Lafleur [No More Dreams, Mr. President

http://claudelafl...ams.html

The rest of the tale became evident four decades later

http://dl.dropbox...oots.pdf

A rumored (I vaguely recall) from the 1972 Lunar Sci Conf:

a.) US President Richard M. Nixon,
b.) USSR President Leonid Brezhnev,
c.) and China's Premier Zhou EnLai:

Will orbit the Earth in a spacecraft and sign a world peace treaty to end world conflict. That didn't happen in 1972, but a number of coincidences seem to point in that direction.

All is well,
O.K. Manuel
http://myprofile....anuelo09
Summary of Research Career (1961-2011)
http://dl.dropbox...reer.pdf
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2011
Anyone know where this thing is going to ditch when it comes down

With the variability of atmospheric resistance that's not something we can precalcuate (other than very roughly).

The recovery capsule is designed for reentry. So that part - at the very least - will not burn up and make a very solid splashdown.

Digging a trench might not be a good idea - since the thing will come in from above ;)
HeloMenelo
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 09, 2011
Anyone know where this thing is going to ditch when it comes down

With the variability of atmospheric resistance that's not something we can precalcuate (other than very roughly).

The recovery capsule is designed for reentry. So that part - at the very least - will not burn up and make a very solid splashdown.

Digging a trench might not be a good idea - since the thing will come in from above ;)


Aaa... dang.... lol.. aa well, by the looks of it's orbit on the site link that was provided, it seems that it is out of reach, i'm in the southern part of Africa... Let's hope they get it going, i'd love too see it land on Phobos !

"new attempts to escape Earth orbit would be conducted between 03:00 and 05:00 Moscow Time on Thursday, November 10 (6 p.m. - 8 p.m. EST on Wednesday)"

holding thumbs here...
Nerdyguy
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 09, 2011
I'm just saying that the black and white people should read a little more...
Propaganda is not limited to some nations....


This is the most foolish liberal garbage I've heard you spout antialias, under the guise of "intellect". What a joke. You think there is no such thing as evil governments? Fine, I don't use that term anyway.

But, are there governments whose primary goal is to brutally stomp on anyone and anything who doesn't agree with the official line of thinking? Yes. Do Iran and North Korea belong to that group? Yes. Does the U.S.? Most assuredly not.

This is not about propaganda, which is the crap you've been spouting. This is about actions. And it is the actions of the governments of those two countries that are atrocious. The fact that you would defend them while casting aspersions at the U.S. is a sad reminder that there are sad, ignorant, brainwashed, ethnocentric bigots in lots of places. Like your home for instance.
omatumr
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 09, 2011
See also news story events at 2:00 pm EST:

www.theblaze.com/...n-nov-9/
antialias_physorg
3.4 / 5 (5) Nov 09, 2011
You think there is no such thing as evil governments?

I just think that they are all evil. Some a little more, some a little less. But there certainly aren't any Dudley-do-right governments out there.

Does the U.S.? Most assuredly not.

In their own country? No.
In other countries via their military actions, covert opperations, propping up of dictatorial regimes and aiding in the suppression of democratic reforms: most certainly yes.
(or simply by outsourcing their stuff to areas where the US laws don't count and redefining terms...Gitmo...cough, cough)

Or doesn't that count? Do only actions that have ramifications "on one's own soil" count?

The fact that you would defend them

Did I defend them? No. Not with one word.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2011
Anyone know where this thing is going to ditch when it comes down if it does "gotta know where to dig that trench if it hits near me" Seems like falling man made stuff from space is the norm these days.


In most cases, it's planned obsolescence without reliable planned safety precautions. Let's hope it falls in Siberia so that the fuel MIGHT be salvaged if it's not too widely spread out over the landscape. Falling into ocean
water would be disastrous.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
See also news story events at 2:00 pm EST:

http://www.thebla...n-nov-9/


Omatumr. . .today is the ninth and I've had my radio on all morning and part of this afternoon. It is now past 2PM and the radio has been on without an outage of signal. Perhaps Obama changed his mind amid too much discord between taking over radio signals and charging a tax or fee on the sale of fresh Christmas trees. He goes with the flow. . .what do you expect?
kochevnik
1 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2011
Of course, since it's the probe of a nation guilty of killing tens of millions of its own people ("political enemies") and fostering nuclear programs in Syria and Iran we can all cheer for them (huh?).
Oh you poor little Zionist! Pity for you not everyone is on board establishing a Rothchilds central bank in every last nation. Bet you didn't even know Ahmadinejad is Jewish? That all official communiqués between USA and Iran go through Israel, to ensure that the message is properly spin-aligned? And who sponsored Lenin and the Bolshevek revolution? Why indeed your own Zionist Rothchilds bankers. In fact the cashed cheque is on display at the British museum. Seems you have a lot of blood on your hands.
kochevnik
2.3 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
@Nerdyguy But, are there governments whose primary goal is to brutally stomp on anyone and anything who doesn't agree with the official line of thinking?
You mean the USA instigating wars and regime change in seven nations for the banksters, right?
Pirouette
1 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
Nerdyguy says:
"""Ridiculousness. Unemployment numbers just went down to 9%. So, 91% of people seeking employment in the U.S. HAVE A JOB!

Both of you need to quit watching so much television. The state of reality and the state of things being described on the news don't necessarily jibe.

Could things be better? Yes. Is unemployment high relative to numbers from the last hundred years? Yes, it's on the high end. Is it Armageddon? No. Just a normal economic cycle."""

Nerdyguy appears to have the market on the reality of today's main stream media news, as well as statistics available on the dot gov websites. That's the kind of news that is mostly favorable to the Obama regime to keep Americans asleep and content with the idea that unemployment has gone down under Obama's rule. Black unemployment has NOT gone down and is still rising. But that is unimportant to some psuedo-Conservatives who refuse to admit that the U.S. is still in trouble economically and is NOT business as usual.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
Kochevnik. . . . .you're saying that Ahmadinejad is a JEW? When did that happen? LOL
My other question to you is, "why do you seem to have such hatred of Jews"? What did they ever do to you? Were you cheated out of some small change? Did your sister get knocked up by a Jew?
Do you hate their style of clothing? their beards and forelocks? their ability and talent of handling money, gold and jewels well? You should LOVE Jewish teachers and professors, since so many of them are teaching American kids to burn their own country's flag and sit in on demonstrations instead of learning the 3 R.s in class. You should embrace THOSE Jews. Yes, you're right about Jews all over the world supporting Israel. So what? Where were you while the U.S. Treasury was sending billion a year to Israel. Did you complain about that? I really would like to know.
nononoplease
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
"There are no 'good' nations and 'evil' nations (much less nations that are somehow guided by a moral compass) - every single one is looking out for themselves and employing strongarm tactics when they can. They all try for the same goals with the same methods."

You're an idiot. If Americans actually had the brains to elect a leader who would be looking out solely for the good of America the rest of the world would feel it. Instead some moron occupies the white house who can't stop bending over for the rest of the world because apparently he was made fun of in middle school and really really wants to be liked.

North Korea and Iran kill their own people. When political opponents are shot in a nation, that nation is wicked. That is not seeing nations in shades of only black and white, that is seeing that there are huge variations in the gray. If you can't see that, you are a moron--and you prove the point of my earliest post.
kochevnik
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
@Nerdyguy Just a normal economic cycle.
What evidence do you have to claim that "economic cycles" are normal? Indeed they were unheard of prior to the traitor Torries passing the Currency Act, over which your American Revolution was fought and lost. Indeed they're the result of banks creating more and more debt, which is the only product a banker has to peddle. Indeed these cycles are empirical proof that banksters reside above governments. Well, apart from the few remaining which you're planning to attack.

Some clips to bring you up to speed:
The American Dream http://www.youtub...RuC12scM
Statism is Dead http://www.youtub...2Eb63qIY

Skepticus
1 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
ha ha probably the Chinese satellite hacked the computer system of the probe! ;-)
kochevnik
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
@Pirouette My other question to you is, "why do you seem to have such hatred of Jews"?
Making stuff up isn't very scientific, Pirouette. You should ask yourself why the Rothchilds demanded that German Jews not be allowed to enter Israel or escape Germany. You should also ask yourself why they funded the manufacture of Zyklon B gas for the gas chambers. Or why their friends the Vatican have hoarded the gold they extracted from concentration camp victim's teeth all these years. Or why your buddy Soros felt no guilt hanging out with Nazis while they made their midnight rounds, so effectively than he now trades for the Rothchild's Bank of England.
omatumr
1 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
See also news story events at 2:00 pm EST:

http://www.thebla...n-nov-9/


Omatumr. . .today is the ninth and I've had my radio on all morning and part of this afternoon.

.... He goes with the flow. . .what do you expect?


I know that I don't know, but the number of coincidences is very high today.

Something is afoot, but i don't know what . . . yet.

om
Nerdyguy
2 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
Of course, since it's the probe of a nation guilty of killing tens of millions of its own people ("political enemies") and fostering nuclear programs in Syria and Iran we can all cheer for them (huh?).
Oh you poor little Zionist! Pity for you not everyone is on board establishing a Rothchilds central bank in every last nation. Bet you didn't even know Ahmadinejad is Jewish? That all official communiqués between USA and Iran go through Israel, to ensure that the message is properly spin-aligned? And who sponsored Lenin and the Bolshevek revolution? Why indeed your own Zionist Rothchilds bankers. In fact the cashed cheque is on display at the British museum. Seems you have a lot of blood on your hands.


Forget to take your meds today?
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
Nerdyguy appears to have the market on the reality of today's main stream media news, as well as statistics available on the dot gov websites. That's the kind of news that is mostly favorable to the Obama regime to keep Americans asleep and content with the idea that unemployment has gone down under Obama's rule. Black unemployment has NOT gone down and is still rising. But that is unimportant to some psuedo-Conservatives who refuse to admit that the U.S. is still in trouble economically and is NOT business as usual.


You clearly understood little of my post. To clarify:

1) I'm advocating not getting any of your news from TV. Liberal, conservative, Fox, CNN, MSNBC, whatever. They have too much of an entertainment agenda, which distorts everything.

2) If you have to pick one program, make it Bill O'Reilly.

3) No idea wtf you're talking about on the .gov stuff.

4) This is an economic cycle, and will get better.

5) The sky will not fall!
Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
This failure can be the cause of only one thing.

Neutron/Neutron Repulsion
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
@Nerdyguy But, are there governments whose primary goal is to brutally stomp on anyone and anything who doesn't agree with the official line of thinking?
You mean the USA instigating wars and regime change in seven nations for the banksters, right?


No, I mean totalitarian regimes like Iran, North Korea, some in Africa.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.3 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
"If you have to pick one program, make it Bill O'Reilly." - NerdGuy

O'Reilly? His Distorted, Ideologically motivated reporting makes him an infamous joke all over the world.

No wonder you are a Nut Case.
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
What evidence do you have to claim that "economic cycles" are normal? Indeed they were unheard of prior to the traitor Torries passing the Currency Act, over which your American Revolution was fought and lost. Indeed they're the result of banks creating more and more debt, which is the only product a banker has to peddle. Indeed these cycles are empirical proof that banksters reside above governments. Well, apart from the few remaining which you're planning to attack.



One word: clueless.

The fact that our ancestors neither understood economies or economic cycles does not in any way diminish the fact that they have been a part of human history since the first cavemen bartered beads for fish.

Of course, we didn't know about quantum theory until the early 1900s - is this to say that quantum mechanics didn't exist until then?

Oh, and btw, our American Revolution...it was won!
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2011
ha ha probably the Chinese satellite hacked the computer system of the probe! ;-)


Sadly, this isn't just random conspiracy theory stuff. My guess is that at least one or two specialists have been pulled aside and asked to do some very quiet checking. Wouldn't necessarily have to be the Chinese either.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
Don't worry OmaTard. Your special number today is 2378.

"I know that I don't know, but the number of coincidences is very high today." - OmaTard
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
"If you have to pick one program, make it Bill O'Reilly." - NerdGuy

O'Reilly? His Distorted, Ideologically motivated reporting makes him an infamous joke all over the world.

No wonder you are a Nut Case.


It's true that he's known to be opinionated. On the other hand, I can't watch much else on Fox because of the blatant ideologue personalities. I find O'Reilly to be fair, balanced, and more moderate than most people probably realize.

I suspect that you have never watched, or have watched 2-3 minutes max.

It's this same kind of ignorance I hear from my conservative friends who bitch about me listening to NPR.

In truth, there's much to be learned from people of all different viewpoints.

Even you Vendicar, despite the streak of hatred and arrogance that runs through you like electricity through a wire.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.3 / 5 (3) Nov 09, 2011
Where are those Iraqi WMD again Tard Boy?

"But, are there governments whose primary goal is to brutally stomp on anyone and anything who doesn't agree with the official line of thinking?" - NerdGuy
Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
Because killing your own people is much worse than killing someone else's people.

How many civilians has America murdered? 30 million or so, so far.

"North Korea and Iran kill their own people." - nononointelligence
kochevnik
3 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2011
@nononoplease North Korea and Iran kill their own people.
So do many far more bloodthirsty US-backed regiemes. So, now that assassination is an official tool of U.S. foreign policy. In fact it's the cornerstone of the USA's SOF. Here is an important question: What single organization is responsible for more terror plots in the USA than any other? It is the Federal Bureau of Investigation, AKA the FBI: http://motherjone...formants And which nation is implanting murder-for-hire SOF forces in 120 countries? Taxpayer-funded hit squads that do the dirty work for USA puppet governments. Of course training terrorists is the job of the "School of the Americas" where rape is integrated as a favorite tactic.
hush1
3 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
Physorg has it's own USO (United Service Organizations).
Nerdguy is in charge.
hush1
2 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
Coming attractions - spoiler alert:
omatumr.
Supporting cast to be announced.
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (4) Nov 09, 2011
@nononoplease North Korea and Iran kill their own people.
So do many far more bloodthirsty US-backed regiemes. So, now that assassination is an official tool of U.S. foreign policy. In fact it's the cornerstone of the USA's SOF. Here is an important question: What single organization is responsible for more terror plots in the USA than any other? It is the Federal Bureau of Investigation, AKA the FBI: http://motherjone...formants And which nation is implanting murder-for-hire SOF forces in 120 countries? Taxpayer-funded hit squads that do the dirty work for USA puppet governments. Of course training terrorists is the job of the "School of the Americas" where rape is integrated as a favorite tactic.


I too can make up random falsehoods about the place where you live. Care to share?
Pirouette
1 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
Hush1. . . .I didn't know that Nerdyguy is one of the hostesses at the 42nd Street Wagon Wheel USO in the former NYC. . . .now renamed Occupy Everything.
Ahhh. . .my cup runneth over.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
whoooops. . .that building was torn down.
hush1
1 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
lol P
And what's all this talk of U.S. foreign soil violence? Doesn't everyone know the CIA sponsors foreign medical vaccination programs?

I don't understand. Medical agencies are now reporting people no longer trust vaccination programs.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
The origin of AIDS in Africa?

"Doesn't everyone know the CIA sponsors foreign medical vaccination programs?" - Hush1
djr
5 / 5 (1) Nov 09, 2011
"When political opponents are shot in a nation, that nation is wicked. That is not seeing nations in shades of only black and white" Mmmmm - what about nations that support nations that kill, and torture their own people - are they also wicked? We could look at the western (including U.S.) support of Egypt, Syria, multiple S. American dictators, Sadam Hussein, etc. etc. Do some research on Islam Karimov (boils his opponents in oil). And today we consider resuming military aid to this butcher. Read this article and tell me about your nice black and white - good and evil view of the universe. http://www.common.../11/09-2 The genocide of the Native Americans by the pure western civilizations would be another interesting thread. My world is obviously much more complex than yours.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2011
CIA also sponsors church socials and midget track meets with 6 foot hurdles. . .but nobody ever mentions THOSE. All they harp on are the little things. sheeesh
hush1
1 / 5 (1) Nov 10, 2011
Yes. Time for change. Change you can believe in. Global.
kochevnik
2.3 / 5 (3) Nov 10, 2011
I too can make up random falsehoods about the place where you live. Care to share?
Yes welcome to the temporal rift called conservatism, where everything outside the paradigm is false because Nerdyguy says so. Who needs science in the face of such awesome empowerment and inspiration? Don't click on hyperlinks they always lead to trouble.
scidog
not rated yet Nov 10, 2011
i hope they get it working,i was looking forward to the tee shirt--
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (3) Nov 10, 2011
Where are those WMD again NerdGuy?

"I too can make up random falsehoods about the place where you live." - NerdGuy
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (1) Nov 10, 2011
"Even you Vendicar, despite the streak of hatred and arrogance that runs through you like electricity through a wire." - NerdGuy

Make up your mind Nerd Boy. Am I arrogant or do I have an "inferiority complex" as you claimed earlier.

You do realize don't you, that those two claims are contradictory.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (3) Nov 10, 2011
"I find O'Reilly to be fair, balanced, and more moderate than most people probably realize." - NerdGuy

The following clip shows that Faux's O'Reilly is a congenital liar. Not only does he lie once about the facts, but he lies again claiming that he researched the lie and found it to be the truth.

http://www.youtub...e=fvwrel

And other lies by O'Reilly.

http://www.youtub..._8QL2weQ

Vendicar_Decarian
3 / 5 (2) Nov 10, 2011
More lies from O'Reilly...

http://www.youtub...=related
roboferret
1 / 5 (1) Nov 10, 2011
I'm going to have to add "Russian" to my list of keywords that bring out the woo loons and/or conspiracy theorists. Between "Quantum" and "Solar".
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Nov 11, 2011
All space enterprises need to be powered by ECats. Then there is no search for things gone wrong. The perfect scapegoat.
rawa1
1 / 5 (3) Nov 11, 2011
All space enterprises need to be powered by ECats.
IMO it's the only technology, which would enable to colonize the space safely by now. The chemical engines have their apparent limit in energy density achievable. The nuclear engines would become disaster at the case of failure, like we are facing by now at the case of Phobos-Grunt mission. And the thermonuclear reactors cannot be miniaturized in real time (even if we neglect the fact, none of them is actually working).
rawa1
1 / 5 (4) Nov 11, 2011
BTW The whole Phobos-Grunt story is not finished yet. Everyone of us could be killed in few weeks just because of this mission, because this spaceprobe doesn't contain the autodestruction mechanism and it's still full of frozen fuel.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (1) Nov 13, 2011
"Everyone of us could be killed in few weeks" - Rawa

What are you blathering about now? Fool!
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 13, 2011
rawa1.. . . . .it's doubtful everyone in the world will be killed. There are two tanks of propellant on the Phobos-Grunt. Both PRESENTLY are still liquid. That's the hydrazine (fuel) and the oxidizer (nitrogen tetroxide). BUT, as the probe continues in its orbit around the Earth for whatever amount of time it takes for its orbit to start decaying, the two tanks full of propellant MAY FREEZE. As time goes by, the chances are greater that the freezing will happen. If the orbit decayed faster and the probe falls to Earth while the propellants are still liquid, THEN the liquids will burn up as the probe enters the atmosphere.
It's only when the propellants have frozen that the unburnt propellant could fall to Earth and contaminate everything it touches. If enough of the stuff thaws out in time and mixes together, then it will cause an explosion over the Earth and all of the toxic propellant will be destroyed. I hope that it will not land in a frozen condition.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 13, 2011
If it lands in a still frozen condition, then it MAY be possible to place it into non-corrosable haz-mat tanks. It might be best for it to land in the Arctic or Antarctic where it's extremely cold. If not, then I hope it doesn't land in water.
blawo
2.3 / 5 (3) Nov 13, 2011
Von Braun said that no failure is real loss as long as telemetry is provided. Assuming you have willingness and means to learn from mistakes and are allowed to correct them is succession of frequent trials.

This time however telemetry seems lost, and 15-year period of Russian attempts for deep space probes does also not provide much space for effective learning. Pity.

One remark. In contrary to most US probes, which always got a touch of aesthetics, besides the advanced technology inside, the Russian ones seem at lack of both. The last thing which can be considered esthetically appropriate was Sputnik 1. Perhaps, Martian gods would find some mercy over Russian technology if a bit of beauty could be find there. We know that Moscow is full of handsome people and creative designers; why for God's sake must all their probes look like dogs balls?

MarkyMark
not rated yet Nov 15, 2011
America is hardly a shining example of saintlyness to most of the world for many good reasons despite Nerdguys fanatical protests.
antialias_physorg
not rated yet Nov 15, 2011
America is hardly a shining example of saintlyness

It is to itself. Propaganda. Pure and simple.

How propaganda can warp the minds of people who think they have not been manipulated? Just go to examples of recent history (last century or so). You'll find many examples (and with peoples whose level of education was far higher).

If you think that Americans are somehow proof against this then you're just kidding yourself.