Study of clays suggests watery Mars underground

Nov 02, 2011 by Guy Webster
Impact cratering and erosion combine to reveal the composition of the Martian underground by exposing materials from the subsurface. Investigation of exposed clay minerals at thousands of Martian sites by the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars (CRISM) on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter suggests a long period of wet, warm conditions, mostly underground. Infrared light indicates terrains of different composition in false-color infrared images (top) of a crater (left) and an escarpment (right). Each of the scenes is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) wide. The lower images of the same sites show how distinctive absorption bands permit identification and mapping of specific minerals. In the lower images, iron-magnesium clays are mapped in blue. These are the most common clays on Mars, occupying large sections of the deep crust and mostly formed by subsurface water. These clays are beneath unaltered volcanic layers that contain the mineral olivine (green). The site shown in the image on the right also contains aluminum clays (red), which formed by waters near the surface. These clays are uncommon on Mars but are sometimes located on top of iron-magnesium clays in a distinctive stratigraphy, indicating formation later in time. These two example sites, out of thousands where CRISM has observed clay minerals, are at 10.65 degrees south latitude, 98.22 degrees east longitude (left pair) and 22.06 degrees north latitude, 74.63 degrees east latitude (right pair). In the top two images, the false color comes from presenting observed brightnesses in three different wavelengths of invisible infrared wavelengths -- 2,529 nanometers, 1,506 nanometers and 1,080 nanometers -- as red, green and blue, respectively, composited into color images. In the bottom two images, colors are assigned to absorption-band characteristics: infrared frequencies at which the materials on the Mars surface are less bright compared to their brightness at other frequencies. The data presented as red are pixel-by-pixel absorption-band depths at 2,210 nanometers, the data presented as green are broad absorption-band depths near 1,000 nanometers, and the data presented as blue are the absorption-band depths at 2,300 nanometers. These color data were then overlain and merged with the brightness at 770 nanometers to show the relationship of detected minerals with underlying topography.Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/JHUAPL

(PhysOrg.com) -- A new NASA study suggests if life ever existed on Mars, the longest lasting habitats were most likely below the Red Planet's surface.

A new interpretation of years of mineral-mapping data, from more than 350 sites on Mars examined by European and NASA orbiters, suggests Martian environments with abundant liquid water on the surface existed only during short episodes. These episodes occurred toward the end of a period of hundreds of millions of years during which warm water interacted with subsurface rocks. This has implications about whether life existed on Mars and how the has changed.

"The types of clay minerals that formed in the shallow subsurface are all over Mars," said John Mustard, professor at Brown University in Providence, R.I. Mustard is a co-author of the study in the journal Nature. "The types that formed on the surface are found at very limited locations and are quite rare."

Discovery of clay minerals on Mars in 2005 indicated the planet once hosted warm, wet conditions. If those conditions existed on the surface for a long era, the planet would have needed a much thicker atmosphere than it has now to keep the water from evaporating or freezing. Researchers have sought evidence of processes that could cause a thick atmosphere to be lost over time.

This new study supports an alternative hypothesis that persistent was confined to the subsurface and many erosional features were carved during brief periods when was stable at the surface.

"If surface habitats were short-term, that doesn't mean we should be glum about prospects for life on Mars, but it says something about what type of environment we might want to look in," said the report's lead author, Bethany Ehlmann, assistant professor at the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, and scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, also in Pasadena. "The most stable Mars habitats over long durations appear to have been in the subsurface. On Earth, underground geothermal environments have active ecosystems."

The discovery of clay minerals by the OMEGA spectrometer on the European Space Agency's Mars Express orbiter added to earlier evidence of liquid Martian water. Clays form from the interaction of water with rock. Different types of clay minerals result from different types of .

During the past five years, researchers used OMEGA and NASA's Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer, or CRISM, instrument on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter to identify clay minerals at thousands of locations on Mars. that form where the ratio of water interacting with rock is small generally retain the same chemical elements as those found in the original volcanic rocks later altered by the water.

The study interprets this to be the case for most terrains on Mars with iron and magnesium clays. In contrast, surface environments with higher ratios of water to rock can alter rocks further. Soluble elements are carried off by , and different aluminum-rich clays form.

Another clue is detection of a mineral called prehnite. It forms at temperatures above about 400 degrees Fahrenheit (about 200 degrees Celsius). These temperatures are typical of underground hydrothermal environments rather than surface waters.

"Our interpretation is a shift from thinking that the warm, wet environment was mostly at the surface to thinking it was mostly in the subsurface, with limited exceptions," said Scott Murchie of Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Md., a co-author of the report and principal investigator for CRISM.

One of the exceptions may be Gale Crater, the site targeted by NASA's Mars Science Laboratory mission. Launching this year, the mission’s Curiosity rover will land and investigate layers that contain clay and sulfate minerals.

NASA's Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution Mission, or MAVEN, in development for a 2013 launch, may provide evidence for or against this new interpretation of the Red Planet's environmental history. The report predicts MAVEN findings consistent with the atmosphere not having been thick enough to provide warm, wet surface conditions for a prolonged period.

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Pirouette
1 / 5 (16) Nov 02, 2011
This website URL below displays an area of Mars where a liquid is flowing and spurting out of a hillside. Please notice the darker areas where the ground material is wet, as opposed to the lighter areas that are dry. Also, in some of the pictures, the liquid is flowing as in a creek and spurts out in "drops" through what appears to be an embankment. This is geology.

Further down on the same page are pictures providing proof of large life forms that are semi-transparent. Those are NOT geology and are not a trick of light and shadow. Mars has life.

www.marscritters.blogspot.com
Dokudango
4.7 / 5 (14) Nov 02, 2011
Yeah boi! You tell those NASA scientists what's up! Obviously they have no clue about geology or biology. /sarcasm
aroc91
4.4 / 5 (16) Nov 02, 2011
This website URL below displays an area of Mars where a liquid is flowing and spurting out of a hillside. Please notice the darker areas where the ground material is wet, as opposed to the lighter areas that are dry. Also, in some of the pictures, the liquid is flowing as in a creek and spurts out in "drops" through what appears to be an embankment. This is geology.

Further down on the same page are pictures providing proof of large life forms that are semi-transparent. Those are NOT geology and are not a trick of light and shadow. Mars has life.

http://www.marscr...spot.com


You're a fucking lunatic.
gwrede
4.6 / 5 (9) Nov 02, 2011
You're a fucking lunatic
Shouldn'that be Martiatic?
Nerdyguy
3 / 5 (2) Nov 02, 2011
"The photos are derived from those sent back to Earth from Mars orbiters and Rovers. I will also post pictures of my tabbies and whatever things of interest I can capture with my digital camera. NOTE: Some comments by viewers may contain objectionable wording. I will delete such comments whenever I find them."

From the blogger mentioned above. Talk about a credible source.
Jaeherys
3 / 5 (2) Nov 02, 2011
I wonder how big that "helmeted being" is? 10-15km tall? HA! That person really is insane.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (9) Nov 02, 2011
Sure, there's no liquid flowing on Mars and there's no large life forms that almost resemble humans. And if there were, they would have to be no more than 6'6" - 7'0", and NASA would know all about them if they really existed. Right.
Just keep believing it and it will come true.
Pirouette
1.4 / 5 (10) Nov 02, 2011
Definition of ANTHROPOCENTRIC from Wikepedia:

Anthropocentrism describes the tendency for human beings to regard themselves as the central and most significant entities in the universe, or the assessment of reality through an exclusively human perspective.
PinkElephant
4 / 5 (8) Nov 02, 2011
Definition of ANTHROPOCENTRIC from Wikepedia:
Good, now look up the definitions of "anthropomorphic", and "pareidolia".

Then go look in the mirror.
Pirouette
1.4 / 5 (9) Nov 02, 2011
Definition of ANTHROPOCENTRIC from Wikepedia:
Good, now look up the definitions of "anthropomorphic", and "pareidolia".

Then go look in the mirror.


What does all this have to do with the pictures in the website? You're not making sense at all.
Are you trying to say that it is impossible to have present life on Mars, but there MIGHT be a possibility of life elsewhere in the Universe, just not in YOUR backyard?
PinkElephant
4.2 / 5 (10) Nov 02, 2011
Are you trying to say that it is impossible to have present life on Mars
No, I'm saying that you're seeing the equivalent of shapes in clouds. And human-like shapes, at that.

You're engaging in anthropomorphic pareidolia. (You did look up the definitions, yes?)
Pirouette
1.6 / 5 (13) Nov 02, 2011
aroc91 says:

""You're a fucking lunatic.""


That's a typical sign of hysteria when someone faced with a new concept and is scared $hitless of it can only fight back with name-calling and stupidity. We are used to disbelievers as well as believers in life on Mars. The pictures don't lie, so life does exist there whether you like it or not. Apparently, not too many true open minds come to Physorg and that's a pity.
Pirouette
1.3 / 5 (13) Nov 03, 2011
Pink Elephant says:
""No, I'm saying that you're seeing the equivalent of shapes in clouds. And human-like shapes, at that.""

Look at the picture. There are NO clouds, just a mountain or vertical hillside with a grotto within a big crater. Sad that you and others here are unable to see the figures in the pictures. I guess you also don't see the liquid in the first set of pictures either.
Osiris1
4.5 / 5 (2) Nov 03, 2011
I would be happy to find bacteria or some such on Mars that used DNA with other bases than our own, or some other structures that duplicated the function of DNA. Anything marking it as totally alien so some pathoskeptik could not publicly poke holes in it out of an insane desire to uphold some increasingly untenable dogma. It would be enough and the implications would be huge. For one thing, biological defense strategies would have to be rethought lest we bring a plague back to us. Hey the bugs survived...MARS...or EUROPA...whatever. Earth will be a bacchanalian feast! So humoring pathoskeptics to curry favor with republican beancounters would be like whistling in a graveyard.
kaasinees
1 / 5 (1) Nov 03, 2011
There are no liquids, they overlay different spectra over each other and use Photoshop to boost colors. These aren't live images.
MarkyMark
3.7 / 5 (3) Nov 03, 2011
Pink Elephant says:
""No, I'm saying that you're seeing the equivalent of shapes in clouds. And human-like shapes, at that.""

Look at the picture. There are NO clouds, just a mountain or vertical hillside with a grotto within a big crater. Sad that you and others here are unable to see the figures in the pictures. I guess you also don't see the liquid in the first set of pictures either.

I woud say you are deliberatly misunderstanding what pink is saying as pink never said there were clouds just that you were looking at geological shapes and forming immages that are part of your directed (by the blog author) immagination. I myself looked at those heaverly edited images and could easilly see these things the blog author was talking about such as the pipelines and giant beings with headdresses but to me they looked more like geological formations.
typicalguy
5 / 5 (2) Nov 03, 2011
My take on life living on mars. There is almost certainly nothing large on the surface only microbes. Below the surface in underground rivers there may be larger life forms such as fish or worms. There is already very good evidence that water exists and flows to this day on mars during the summer. Remember the equator of the planet reaches roughly 70 degrees Fahrenheit during the summer (during the day). And the life on mars? Most likely it shares a common ancestor with life here. My guess is that microbes on one planet went for a ride on a rock to the other planet. We will probably find it is DNA based life. In fact, I Would wager any life in the solar system is the result of microbial hitchhikers from earth (especially given how diverse life is here).
Water on mars
http://www.nasa.g...804.html
Pirouette
1 / 5 (8) Nov 03, 2011
@typicalguy
We had already determined before we put up the pictures in the website that there would be many skeptics and worse, downright hostile behavior towards the researchers as well as the research itself. That is BASE human nature, to attack that which you don't understand or readily observe, or prefer that it go away. Possibly 95% of humanity reacts in that fashion to a new concept or stimuli which they cannot process with any of their 5 senses. Fortunately, there are many of us who delve deeper into the pictures without emotion, seeking scientific fact. In the case of the flowing water, the pictures show huge "drops" of liquid that are unmistakeable as such and are oozing out of the ground material. There is also the "twin peaks" that are close together and a liquid flows between them. We have no idea what the liquid is, but we think it's H2O, possibly mixed with something else.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (8) Nov 03, 2011
BTW, absolutely NONE of the pictures in the website have been photoshopped or altered in any way except to darken them just a bit and to zoom in as close as possible without enlarging pixels too much. In the pictures of the "humanoids", please note that they cast shadows on the rock face behind them. The helmeted being's boots cast shadows and the one "female" with the "headdress is partially behind a rock so that you can't see her full figure. Her headdress casts a shadow.
It appears that all 5 figures are semi-transparent and are well adapted to the harsh environment of Mars. Because they're semitransparent, the rock behind them shows a a bit through their bodies. We have jellyfish and other animals on Earth that are also semitransparent, so it shouldn't be so shocking..In the website, we have recommended using a 6X magnifier to see better detail, since we could not zoom in too far. IF these had only been geology, they would have looked exactly like the vertical rock face.
Sternenfisch
4 / 5 (4) Nov 03, 2011
BTW, absolutely NONE of the pictures in the website have been photoshopped or altered in any way


Hi,
Your comment is incorrect[1]

1. "false-color infrared images" [line 11-12]
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Nov 03, 2011
Osiris1 says:
"""For one thing, biological defense strategies would have to be rethought lest we bring a plague back to us. Hey the bugs survived...MARS...or EUROPA...whatever. Earth will be a bacchanalian feast! So humoring pathoskeptics to curry favor with republican beancounters would be like whistling in a graveyard."""

Several years ago I spoke to Dr. John Rummel, NASA Astrobiologist by phone and asked him about the "Sample Return" project and whether or not it would be returned directly to Earth. I suggested that it should be sent directly to the ISS and a special module built to receive it. He tried to reassure me that everything is being done to contain any accidents or mishaps and not to worry. He didn't mention the ISS at all, so I assume that the Mars sample will be returned to Earth. I too, am concerned about contamination of our planet. But, in the 1970s, NASA's "clean rooms" were not all that clean. Technicians were baring their skin with all its many bacteria.
Sternenfisch
not rated yet Nov 03, 2011
-/-
Pirouette
1 / 5 (7) Nov 03, 2011
BTW, absolutely NONE of the pictures in the website have been photoshopped or altered in any way


Hi,
Your comment is incorrect[1]

1. "false-color infrared images" [line 11-12]

Nope, the images of the "humanoids" have been colored by me so that certain features of the images are more readily observed. A tiny bit of sharpening also. I used different shades of transparent coloring from a cheap editing software so that the original greys, blacks and whites could be enhanced by color. The colors were met with approval by my colleagues. Photoshopping can be detected easily, so we decided it was not necessary to use any other kind of enhancing. These images are straight forward and are proof that NASA and other agencies are ignoring certain aspects of Mars, while searching only for bacteria. Their funding depends partially on producing results, even if it's the same things over and over again. Many have complained that NASA drags out the same stories, in different wording.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (7) Nov 03, 2011
You may have seen that the original black-white-gray images are included with the ones in color. Actually, I object to NASA's (and other agencies') use of black/white/grey filters and/or colors because they tend to mask or obliterate objects in the images so as to become unrecognizable. The images of the humanoids on the hillside grotto is something they missed entirely. I'm sure they will be more careful in the future. My colleague who did the texts may have not been as articulate, but the images speak for themselves.
The raw images took all of us by surprise. We did not expect to find (quite by accident) anything alive on Mars and were admiring the geology. But we did understand the differences between geology and biology and could not figure out why NASA missed the biology on Mars.
Perhaps they did not zoom in very much as we did. The water images include clay substances also, as in the article.
Skultch
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 03, 2011
Is there an evolutionary psychological explanation or established term/phrase that describes the motivation to latch onto a hypothesis, connect your identity to that hypothesis, then ignore/devalue/overlook contradictory evidence? I'm more looking for why people tie themselves emotionally to ideas that will not directly help their survival or social standing. After they do that, I think I understand why they ignore contradictory evidence. Wait... I think I got it....social standing.

Piro, do you ever feel a rush of positive emotions when people give your hypothesis attention, whether their reaction is positive or negative?

I don't mean to be dismissive of something you are clearly passionate about. I just want to understand where you are coming from in more detail so I can converse with you more efficiently.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (8) Nov 03, 2011
@Skultch
Kindly assume the position of explaining the "contradictory evidence". WHERE is this 'evidence' you are so fond of, and could you please present it here in this thread so that we may all have a look at it? I have never seen anything contradictory to the humanoid images or the liquid flowing in that low lying area of Mars, except a few people who are unable to see much of anything that is outside of their lists of what is real.
If I was presented with any contradictory evidence that actually revolved around scientific fact, there would be no need to ignore/devalue/overlook the evidence. There is NO such contradictory evidence anywhere around, no matter how hard you wish for it to be.
As far as my social standing or any other of your psychological voodoo, emotion, positive or negative has no place in scientific research. YOUR OWN emotional involvement in this is quite evident. I assume that you are not too happy with the concept of large life on Mars, or in the Universe.
aroc91
4.5 / 5 (8) Nov 03, 2011
You interpreting tall, helmeted, robed, transparent beings sitting on a hillside out of blurry, non-descript photos of martian soil is not evidence, it's lunacy. There is absolutely nothing in those photos.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Nov 03, 2011
What Martian soil? The figures are on a surface made of layered rock, not soil. You are obviously either looking at the wrong photos or you are suffering from a psychosis and cannot deal with the idea of life on another planet in the solar system. You might also hang onto every word issued from NASA, and if they don't say it, it can't possibly exist or matter. If that is the case, then that website is not for YOU. Thousands of people have acknowledged the figures in the pictures as factual and are hominids or humanoid. But, you are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, however narrow in scope.
I can only associate your user name, and your shoddy behavior with your first comment of:
"you fucking lunatic". That is quite a revelation. I have heard of you before from others in these threads, negatively, so it's not surprising.
Skultch
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 03, 2011
I would love to find life on Mars. So, there's another reason for me to lean towards you being biased; you make incorrect assumptions; my guess is in order to ease your mind in the presence of perceived attacks on your pet theory. How damaging to your confidence would it be for you to know that a credible skeptic doesn't believe anything you say on this topic?

The contradictory evidence has already been provided. It's the evidence that shows the prevalence and survival advantage of self-deception. Look at it from my perspective: what's more likely? Some grand conspiracy involving humanoid Martians, or your own emotional bias? Unless you address the possibility of your own self bias, you won't make any progress convincing skeptics. The fact that you don't show that you understand this possibility makes it that much more likely that you are merely seeing what you want to see. Self deception doesn't work as well once you are past the denial phase.
panorama
5 / 5 (4) Nov 03, 2011
BTW, absolutely NONE of the pictures in the website have been photoshopped or altered in any way except to darken them just a bit and to zoom in as close as possible without enlarging pixels too much.


Nope, the images of the "humanoids" have been colored by me so that certain features of the images are more readily observed. A tiny bit of sharpening also. I used different shades of transparent coloring from a cheap editing software so that the original greys, blacks and whites could be enhanced by color.


So you state that the pictures weren't altered in any way, then go on to explain how exactly you altered them...clever girl.
Pirouette
1.5 / 5 (6) Nov 03, 2011
The pictures are not altered, they are merely in several colors AS WELL AS IN the ORIGINAL black, white and greys versions. Apparently, some in this thread are unaware that the original versions are also included on the first page of the website. I suggest you look for them and see if THIS time, your minds will be able to perceive those originals.

@Skulltch. .
It is evident that your penchant for pseudo-psychology or neuroscience is driving you to declare those who bring valid arguments to the "table" regarding the existence of E.T., as suffering from some kind of disconnect from reality, when it is actually YOUR OWN reality from which the evidence is being disconnected.
It is very plain to see now, that you mean to label anybody who disagrees with your narrow view of the world as having mental problems. Had you been around in Albert Einstein's day, you would no doubt have charged him also for his Relativity theories. You are in the wrong Forum. . .the Three Stooges is your speed.
typicalguy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 03, 2011
Pirouette, do you have other photos of the same region from other passes that show either no humonlids or these same humanoids in different locations? The NASA page I linked showed several photos that seem to depict themovementof liquid. You will need a great deal more evidence before coming anywhere near proving something so earthshaking (Mars shaking?) as not just extraterrestrial life, not just intelligent extraterrestrial life, but inteeligent extraterrestrial life on the next planet out and the only one within the habitable region. The claim is so exceptional, we will need a hell of a lot more evidence than the photos you have on your site. I would love for it to be true and I do believe microbial life is probably on Mars. For animals the size your talking about to exist, there will have to be a massive and diverse ecosystem in the caves. Surely such an ecosystem would make it's presence known from the surface.
kaasinees
1 / 5 (1) Nov 03, 2011
social standing.

More like social acceptance and social pressure etc.

http://www.youtub...UhlBgfoU

I think religion is so successful because of this very fact. (Plus childhood brainwashing).
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Nov 03, 2011
@typicalguy
Your curiosity is very much appreciated on the E.T. topic. I have spoken to Dr. Alfred McKewen, principal investigator at U. of Az, Tucson, and I had asked him about that particular crater and whether another picture of it, same time of year, day and month and same distance from the surface, had been photographed at a later time. He said he thought so, but could not give me the PSP number. Without the new number, it would be difficult to track it down to view and determine if the figures in PSP_001374_1805 had moved or left the grotto. It will take a lot of searching, but I will make the attempt. You must understand also that NASA is likely to mask or obliterate such proof of large life from the raw images in JPEG2000 format. Without the proper funding from us, their pet projects may go the way of Constellation and Orion. I am hoping to find the time to drive over to Arizona and access Dr. McKewen's stash of large files. . .there are thousands now since the end of 2006.
typicalguy
5 / 5 (2) Nov 03, 2011
Pirouette, you think the discovery of large life forms on Mars would reduce funding. There is already discussion of cutting the NASA budget (along with most other government spending). It seems to me that NASA would love to provide evidence of life on Mars. Since it would result in support for increased funding from all political parties (at the cost of other government agencies).
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Nov 03, 2011
The funding is all important. The hierarchy at NASA needs to keep people believing in their credibility, otherwise there may be bigger budget cuts and more layoffs. Bolden & Company will not allow any individuals or groups to score a hit (discovery) unless the cabal allows it. That means that I would have to request the large file in person, before any changes are made once they find out what I'm after.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Nov 03, 2011
Typicalguy, I can't be absolutely certain, but I think a "discovery" by them of that nature would have the opposite effect. The public, if they found out that NASA had been "sitting" on these pictures for years and did not announce the discovery or allow anyone else to, would cause a lot of anger, and quite possibly heads would roll.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Nov 03, 2011
Another thing to consider, Homeland just might consider it a breach of national security. Don't forget that we have competitors in China, for instance.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Nov 03, 2011
Typicalguy says:
"" It seems to me that NASA would love to provide evidence of life on Mars. Since it would result in support for increased funding from all political parties (at the cost of other government agencies)."""

I don't think it would be supported by Democrats very much. The Dems and the President are supportive of the OccupyWallStreet crowds all over the country. There is too much call for redistributing the wealth from the top down and the bottom up. I don't see how NASA can survive too much longer with this kind of off-the-wall thinking. Those mobs are not concerned with outer space, E.T.s, science discoveries, and what Republicans think. I can't imagine what will happen with all the crap going on in this country.
typicalguy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 03, 2011
pirouette, I would like to avoid political discussions as much as possible but you need to read up on the James Webb telescope funding. It is going to replace Hubble which will soon be retired. The James Webb went over budget as many NASA projects do. Despite the budget issues, the work on it is almost complete and the house appropriations committee (Republicans) was going to kill it. Obviously Hubble is hugely popular and probably the best known telescope by the general public. So rather than take heat from voters for killing the Webb (and leaving the US with no space telescope), they are funding it by taking away funds from the NASA budget which means other science won't be funded. Honestly, there is no value placed on anything in the government right now. They didn't save the Webb because of its scientific value but because they didn't want to answer to voters. Don't believe me? Look it up. Google James Webb funding.
typicalguy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 03, 2011
About the only funding that's secure is directly related to the military. For example, the National ignition Facility (NIF) is funded despite majorly going over budget because it's chief goal is nuclear weapons research and science advancement is a nice plus on the side. Don't get me wrong, I'll take whatever research we can get but I'm trying to explain that you are incorrect in assuming the Dems want to kill budgets. The Republicans gained a house majority with tea party support which they (naively?) assume means all ares other than military should be cut. Individuals have different beliefs on each issue but I get the feeling this isn't played out that way right now. If the value of science were better explained to the general public we wouldn't have to worry about the possibility that we may not have a space telescope or that the shuttle won't be replaced. I fear it will take china landing on the moon and us with no space program to get the public to care.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (3) Nov 03, 2011
I doubt the public would care, in any case. There are just too many people out of work and the economy is getting worse. . .and then there's Europe.
I say the James Webb should be finished and sent up since it's so far superior to Hubble. But before it's launched, every effort to perfect each and every component MUST be performed, otherwise we will have another expensive and dangerous scenario as with Hubble needing some flaws fixed due to human error on the ground. Hubble was great in its day, but we need better equipment now, and in a few more years, we will need to replace HiRise and CRISM aboard the MRO. Luckily, THAT hasn't also disappeared mysteriously as did the Mars Global Surveyor with its MOC aboard in November 2006. Personally, I don't really think the thrill is gone for new telescopes (space). It might have to be conducted in secret if the public disapproves of James Webb, but I think most will come around when they see what Webb can do. Call your Repubs.
Skultch
not rated yet Nov 04, 2011
Piro:
@Skulltch. .
It is evident that your penchant for...blah blah....(not answering any questions)


So, multiple people don't see what you see, we've shown you a plausible reason for the disagreement, and you aren't willing to even look into possible issues with your methodology. So, why again are you talking about this on a **science** discussion site? If this was actual science we were engaged in here, you would be essentially ignoring the results of peer review. If we are going to continue this discussion, can you start by addressing these points? If not, this isn't a discussion, it isn't anything close to science, and I really don't understand what motivates you to behave this way.
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (3) Nov 04, 2011
@Skultch,
Is there an evolutionary psychological explanation or established term/phrase that describes the motivation to latch onto a hypothesis, connect your identity to that hypothesis, then ignore/devalue/overlook contradictory evidence?
Look up "confirmation bias."
Skultch
not rated yet Nov 05, 2011
@Skultch,
Is there an evolutionary psychological explanation or established term/phrase that describes the motivation to latch onto a hypothesis, connect your identity to that hypothesis, then ignore/devalue/overlook contradictory evidence?
Look up "confirmation bias."


Yeah, I know about that. I was more looking for something that speaks to the negative reaction to conflicting evidence as opposed to the positive reaction to reinforcing evidence. Does conf bias usually refer to both?

Edit: nevermind. wiki says it does. I guess it's really a very similar mechanism of the brain that produces both reactions.

Anyway, Piro, you aren't a fucking lunatic. Just a normal human that has a lot of skin in this game and is understandably resistant to throwing it all away just because of a lack of self objectivity.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Nov 05, 2011
@Skultch
If you are an Astrobiologist, then we can discuss this further, but I suspect that you and some others are merely coming to a negative determination of the website pictures through your own biases and pseudo-psychology. It's a well-known fact that even school psychologists will try to convince the parents of children in grade school that a child has mental problems of some sort and must be placed in a special class for retards. They don't say the word "retard" of course, but the parents will go by a psychologist's word and place the child in special ed. class, when all along there is nothing wrong with the kid but a little bit of pent-up energy. That happened to my neighbor's son. When the psychologist realized she was wrong a few grades later, she apologized for her mistake. The boy is an Honors student in H.S.
You and everyone else are welcome to ignore the pictures as you should not be so overly concerned about them anyway. Are they harming you psychologically?
Pirouette
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 05, 2011
School psychologists, for example, need to maintain a certain quota for special education classes in any given school system, so they will collect all the names of unruly children from each teacher and mark those kids as potential candidates for special ed. The psychological criteria testing can be as ridiculous as the child's refusal to sit down. One child was marked as such because he had to go to the bathroom and the teacher kept telling him to sit down and shut up.
Special Ed. teachers need to keep their jobs, as do school psychologists, and they will even make up stories about children to the parents and school admin. in order to keep their jobs. It's proven time and time again. That's why I consider psychology to be a pseudo-science and not based on reality. How about you going to the OWS demonstrations and examine some of the people living tents and having sex on the sidewalks. Oh, and defecating on police cars. Check on Obama too. HE seems very biased. LOL
bluehigh
1 / 5 (1) Nov 05, 2011
... and having sex on the sidewalks.

That's what I thought was happening in the cave entrance. It looks like the male is .. oh .. the tricks our eyes and mind can play.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (3) Nov 05, 2011
Personally, I don't care for sex on the sidewalk, even covered with a tarp. . . .I'd prefer "sex on the beach", wouldn't you?

;)
bluehigh
1 / 5 (1) Nov 05, 2011
Beach sand can get into places that it should not but I guess preferable to corrosive sticky Martian clay. Having a shower or bath on Mars might be problematic.

The idea of semi-transparent creatures is new in this context to me and I quite like the idea. Certainly might be a justifiable evolutionary adaptation given the Martian environment.

An interesting start to the day, thanks Pirouette.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (3) Nov 05, 2011
Exactly, the Chemistry is very different. You're very welcome, bluehigh.
ROBTHEGOB
not rated yet Nov 05, 2011
typicalguy: China may well be looking past the moon - to Mars. If they beat us there, then watch the political sh** hit the fan.
Pirouette
2 / 5 (4) Nov 06, 2011
@bluehigh
I thought that I should mention that my colleagues and I don't believe that the semi-transparent life forms in the crater on Mars are indigenous to that planet. We feel that they MAY have come from elsewhere, perhaps from another star system and were stranded on Mars or left there as in a penal colony. Mars isn't exactly a garden of Eden and we couldn't understand WHY intelligent life forms would prefer to live on a mostly desert world with no beauty whatsoever. There are other life forms as well on Mars, but they appear solid, though really weird. It took us quite a while to get used to all of these creatures, and many hours of viewing them. A few years after we found the figures in one of the large file JP2, I read the "Book of Enoch". I had given up on the Jewish Bible already after realizing that the teachings of Jesus were not meant for Gentiles in the first place and that Gentiles had been EXcluded until Paul's travels to Greece.
Pirouette
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 06, 2011
The Book of Enoch describes a God sitting on a throne and Enoch's travels to various regions accompanied by "angels" to explain what Enoch is shown. But, the crucial part of the story is that of the "fallen angels" who were punished by their God, who ordered his loyal angels to bind up the fallen angels and take them to a place called "Dudael". Some of us feel that Mars may be that place and the fallen angels are these figures in the Mars pictures. There is also a possible connection with the Sumerian Gods. Those gods were portrayed in Sumerian art as giants who were worshipped by man. In the Sumerian glyphs, some of the giants are drawn with wings which indicates the ability of flight. I felt that from these may have come the Jewish stories of angels. The glyphs do not indicate semi-transparency, of course, since it is impossible to portray that in clay or metal.
Pirouette
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 06, 2011
The author and Archaeologist, Zechariah Sitchin, interpreted Sumerian text and glyphs, which is said by some to be an inaccurate interpretation. He claimed that there is a twelfth planet in the Solar system called Nibiru MY estimation is that this Nibiru and twelfth planet may be in a different star system and not in our own, and that Sitchen misinterpreted the location. While I tend to think that the figures on Mars could possibly have been taken there as punishment for mating with humans and begetting giants, as in Genesis and the Book of Enoch, they could not have originated on Earth. The fact that the Sumerian glyphs resemble us somewhat could mean that the optimum shape all over the Universe for INTELLIGENT life COULD VERY WELL BE our own physiology (plus a thumb). The Sumerians may have worshipped these winged humanoids because of their semi-transparency and having come from the sky.
Pirouette
2.3 / 5 (3) Nov 06, 2011
The article does not explain whether the clay, whether of aluminum or magnesium-iron composition is wet or dry. If wet, that could indicate that water is flowing on the surface also, and not just in the subsurface. Also, the false colorization masks the true features of the area and renders it useless to me, but maybe others here are better able to interpret the true nature of the clays by their images.
Vienna
3.7 / 5 (3) Nov 07, 2011
Pirouette/Jeanie :

You are truly pathetic. Truly self-deluded to write the following --

"Also, I have coined the term "Bobbles" to indicate the "people" on Mars that have giant heads and little bodies for lack of a more scientific name. They remind me of bobble-head dolls or, better yet, the new M & M candy commercials on TV that have legs, heads/faces, but without a body. Some are cute, some horrid looking and many have animal faces but seem to walk on 2 legs. They are in many places in the Mars photos and can be found in caves, alcoves, overhangs and sometimes even in pits as well as out in the open. They are probably quite friendly in spite of their large size and appearance!! Someday, mankind will discover the truth. Hopefully, the truth will not be suppressed by governments."
yyz
5 / 5 (1) Nov 07, 2011
Vienna, on the second page of that blog she accuses the operators of the the Rock Abrasion Tool of intentionally killing an alien life form inside of a rock:

"It also appears that at least one of the tools on the Spirit's arm has cut open the little pie-shaped creature that is within the porthole-like round object on the rock. The creature has a face with 2 eyes, a possible nose and a mouth. It is apparently dead. It is hard to say whether or not the cutting open of the creature can be counted as murder of an alien since it is the Mars Rover that is the alien and not the creature who is on its home planet. It is most likely a case of accidental death since how could the Rover know that it was cutting into a living Being who was on its own planet. The Rover has to be held blameless."

(con't)
yyz
not rated yet Nov 07, 2011
(con't)

"But, at the same time, the scientists who guided the Rover's actions had to have seen the Being and should have stopped the killing at once before the Being could be hurt. Unfortunately, the creature appears to have died in the porthole. I consider it a very bad start for Mars exploration and a terrible shame and waste of a life."

Yeah, that's seriously out there. This not counting the delay time and preprogrammed nature of instructions sent to the Spirit rover, as if they could spot this "alien" and immediately halt the RAT tool!. Yet this blog purports to show the dead alien "creature's 2 eyes, nose and downturned mouth" in several images taken by Spirit.

So this is the incontrovertible proof that we have killed a "Martian" in his rocky porthole!. How many more "Martians" have perished at the hands of the RAT?

Gimme a break, Pirouette.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 07, 2011
Jeanie is one of my colleagues in that venture. She owns the blog, the rest of us contribute to it.
Where is your evidence that there was no pie-shaped creature within that rock? There were chips of rock that fell on it from the cutting tool (RAT). But there also appears to be some liquid coming out of it. It might be its blood. We only present the pictures and our own interpretations of the contents of same. It has already been said in the blog that everyone is free to interpret or misinterpret the pictures all they want. At the time that we had decided on which pictures to include in the blog, NASA had no knowledge of what we had. Admittedly, some of the text, the descriptions according to what we viewed, may be in error. But that is how we saw the figures and objects. Much of the pictures is geology, and that is mentioned. The life forms on Mars are strange indeed and it is understandably hard to relate to them.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 07, 2011
As for the creatures we called "Bobbles" (we couldn't think of anything else to call them), we have seen several who would have been in high resolution, but it was obvious that NASA had also seen them first and skewed the raw images so that the creatures were out of focus with lines placed over them, absolutely FUBAR. More recently, we have found other of the same creatures that NASA apparently missed, and they are not skewed at all. Clear and outstanding.
Perhaps you might be interested in the long snake-like creatures on Mars that possibly measure a half mile in length. We call them "sand dune worms" and are covered with sand or clay and appear to migrate across the planet in groups. You can laugh at that too.
We already are aware that our Mars pictures will never be vindicated until our astronauts land on Mars and explore the planet. That is the only way to know the truth.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 07, 2011
BTW. . .we (our group) have all read the comments on this thread and have decided to no longer add any more pictures that we have found of the large life forms of Mars. We feel that you people are not ready to accept that there is life over on the next planet to ours. For that reason, we are very sad, not for us, but for you.
We will also be removing our webpages, pictures and all, from blogspot within the following week from this post. In the meantime, we seek out truly open minds regarding our discoveries in our Mars pictures and hope for them to continue our work for the future. Perhaps the younger ones will be around to find out that we were right all along.
Skultch
not rated yet Nov 07, 2011
We already are aware that our Mars pictures will never be vindicated until our astronauts land on Mars and explore the planet. That is the only way to know the truth.


What makes you think 'they' can't get to the astronauts, too? Or do you mean *your* astronauts?
yyz
5 / 5 (2) Nov 07, 2011
"We already are aware that our Mars pictures will never be vindicated until our astronauts land on Mars and explore the planet. That is the only way to know the truth."

So you discount the thousands of hi-res high quality images and radar altimetry gathered by the European Mars Express probe and other robotic Mars probes that have preceded it? And what of the thousands of planetary scientists of *all* nations that have scrutinized the voluminous imagery these orbiting and land-bound probes have returned over the past decades? Are they all involved in some vast conspiracy/cover-up?

Additionally, do you really believe the discovery of life on a body other than the Earth would result in a decrease in funds allocated to study such life? This would be the greatest discovery in the history of science. Your CT views just do not make any sense, except to you and other like-minded individuals.

PE nailed it above. You, sir, suffer from OBVIOUS confirmation bias.
Skultch
5 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
Conversing with this Piro person is an interesting case study to me. Whatever his/her responses are, they enlighten me to how the functionally irrational think. Dealing with them, and in a similar way, understanding my own innate irrationality, is probably the greatest challenge of my life. We are all irrational until we use our ability to introspect, learn our limitations/tendencies, then transcend them. Somewhat counter-intuitively, respect and understanding of the advantages of our relatively quick emotional intelligence is a crucial first step towards this goal and understanding ourselves in order to better ourselves.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (3) Nov 08, 2011
Skultch. . . .according to YOU, anyone who dares to present pictures of large life on Mars is irrational, like yourself. Introspect? Learn our limitations/tendencies? WTF does all of that have to do with pictures of living beings on another planet in our own solar system??
You are applying your stupid nonsense of pseudo-psychology to hard copies in my possession of science which you prefer to disagree with and denigrate all because you can. . .with absolutely NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF YOUR OWN THAT MAKES SENSE.
All you can do is spout crap from books you read authored by other equally knee-jerk smartass know-it-alls.
YOU are an interesting case study to ME. I find that you believe yourself to be an authority on life on other worlds and their existence greatly offends you. Your way of dealing with this serious offense to your own reality is to kill off the messenger, if you can.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Nov 08, 2011
Skultch, , , ,YOU may be another Jeffrey Dahmer in disguise. Since that MIGHT be the case, I would suggest that you have yourself incarcerated or admitted into a mental institute before you do damage to another human being with your unrealistic placing of undeserved guilt on the innocent.
We can see right through your hokum and your spin. . .you are so transparent.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
@ yyz
"""So you discount the thousands of hi-res high quality images and radar altimetry gathered by the European Mars Express probe and other robotic Mars probes that have preceded it? And what of the thousands of planetary scientists of *all* nations that have scrutinized the voluminous imagery these orbiting and land-bound probes have returned over the past decades? Are they all involved in some vast conspiracy/cover-up?"""

LOL. . .not at all, yyz. You have misinterpreted the data that we have provided to the public. All other cameras orbiting Mars have produced wonderful and very nice images returned to Earth and, certainly. they are very important. However, we have only used the images from the HiRise camera aboard the MRO that also orbits Mars. The HiRise camera, at its closest imaging, is capable of capturing images as small as one (1) meter across.
Skultch
not rated yet Nov 08, 2011
I'm only trying to understand why the two of us come to different conclusions of the same evidence. I thought it was clear that I was speculating. Of course I think you're irrational; we all are. The alternative would be my own error. I have considered the possibility that I am wrong, again, and I still think that is unlikely. So, what would you have me do? Increase doubt in everything I think I know so I can incorporate your humanoid martian theory? Would you do that in my position?

It's very telling how the mere suggestion that you aren't thinking clearly elicits such a negative emotional response.

See, people affect my life, so I study people. Do martians affect your life?
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
That is quite a feat since the MRO is flying overhead somewhere between 150 miles or more to a bit over 200 miles above the surface. The distance to the ground varies because of high and lower terrain, mountains, valleys, etc.
But WE took great pains to zoom in and out as close to the varied surface terrains as possible as we went along through each section of the JP2 large file(s). Through the use of an IASViewer from ITT Corp., we were able to turn each section so that we could see the terrain from all sides, East, West, etc. BECAUSE we were able to do this and get up so close within a meter in most cases, we were able to find the semi-transparent humanoids (and other life forms).
I personally believe that there is a concerted effort by NASA, and possibly other space agencies to mask and hide any life forms in the returned images. But they did manage to miss a few, and we took advantage of their error.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
Skultch. . . .you are a lost "soul" trying to make sense of the world and your own perceptions of it.
There's nothing wrong with that. Welcome to reality. There are a lot of things about reality that are difficult to accept for some.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011


I AM on a "learning curve", and have dealt with and accepted that I am not the only life form in the Universe, nor of in our solar system. After I got over my awe of the images we found, I thought how appropriate it is that we humans and other Earth creatures don't have a monopoly on life. After I explained my feelings to my Mars group, they all agreed with me and understood they felt the same way. That is why we decided to publish the pictures online.
BTW yyz. . . .do you honestly believe that after BILLIONS OF YEARS, that it is only possible for Mars to have germs crawling on its surface or subsurface? Tiny GERMS?? If you believe in evolution, then you cannot possibly believe that germs remained in stasis for billions of years and never progressed in any way. Seriously.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011


I AM on a "learning curve", and have dealt with and accepted that I am not the only life form in the Universe, nor of in our solar system. After I got over my awe of the images we found, I thought how appropriate it is that we humans and other Earth creatures don't have a monopoly on life. After I explained my feelings to my Mars group, they all agreed with me and understood they felt the same way. That is why we decided to publish the pictures online.
BTW yyz. . . .do you honestly believe that after BILLIONS OF YEARS, that it is only possible for Mars to have germs crawling on its surface or subsurface? Tiny GERMS?? If you believe in evolution, then you cannot possibly believe that germs remained in stasis for billions of years and never progressed in any way. Seriously.
Skultch
5 / 5 (1) Nov 08, 2011
Skultch. . . .you are a lost "soul" trying to make sense of the world and your own perceptions of it.
There's nothing wrong with that. Welcome to reality. There are a lot of things about reality that are difficult to accept for some.


I really don't think I have any difficulty 'accepting' your hypothesis about humanoid martians. Knowledge of that would be the most exciting and cool thing to ever happen in my lifetime.

No, the problem we have here right now is that you don't understand the mind of a skeptic, no matter the issue, apparently. I also think /you/ have a difficulty accepting your own human limitations of observation and cognition.

Isn't it interesting how much we unknowingly (at the time) project our own problems onto others? I know I do it all the time.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
ooops. . .my apologies for the double message.
yyz. . . .be honest with yourself, do you also, as Skultch seems to, hate the idea of semi-transparent large life forms alive on Mars? And do you agree that there MIGHT BE large life forms on an exoplanet elsewhere in the Universe, but they cannot possibly be on the next planet over from Earth? Do you feel that NASA and all other space agencies, as well as ALL government agencies will NEVER lie to the taxpaying public(s), and will ALWAYS be truthful as to the contents of ALL images returned to Earth from Mars? Think on it awhile.
Pirouette
2.3 / 5 (3) Nov 08, 2011
Skultch says:
"""I really don't think I have any difficulty 'accepting' your hypothesis about humanoid martians. Knowledge of that would be the most exciting and cool thing to ever happen in my lifetime."""

I don't think you comprehend the true anatomy of a hypothesis. A hypothesis is something that necessitates further research before it can be regarded as truth and factual that needs no further research except to find possible improvements on it to increase its value. The pictures of the semi-transparent large life forms on Mars are not hypothetical. They are fact and do exist. YOU are placing a DIFFERENT value on them according to your own sense of reality, which seems to be faulty. You pigeonhole everyone else's sense of reality according to your OWN faulty mentality. You try to make sense of things that you can't make sense of, and it's obvious that you are going around in circles while missing completely that which is true and factual because of your own confusion.
Skultch
5 / 5 (1) Nov 08, 2011
You have yet to acknowledge that the same possibilities exist within you that you claim exist in me. I guess I shouldn't expect anything different. I mean, you really think that you see translucent humanoids in those pictures. I don't know what else to say that could get through to you, other than, I have a lot more people (independent verification) on my side than you do. Are we all as delusional as you think I am?
yyz
5 / 5 (1) Nov 08, 2011
Pirouette,

Sorry, I have no desire to converse with a conspiracicy theorist with an anthropomorphic pareidolia and a severve case of conformation bias.[Enough CT people posting already].

Best wishes to you and your semi-transparent Bobble creatures. My condolences to the alien killed by Spirit's Rock Abrasion Tool. I'm sure he will be missed (by you and all sentient Bobbles). :^)
Pirouette
1 / 5 (3) Nov 08, 2011
@Skultch. . . .semi-transparent, not translucent. We also have independent, PROFESSIONAL verification as to the existence of the humanoids in the Mars pictures. You and your "people" need to either get your eyes checked out and possibly purchase reading glasses, OR take a class in facial recognition at your local police precinct. You might also want to play the "Where's Waldo" game and/or take a picture of a crowd during New Year's Eve and try to find your girlfriend, boyfriend or spouse in it without being told first where he/she is. There are many humans who have a hard time recognizing faces. You would not be the only one with that handicap. That is why, in a court of law, many testimonies are declared inadmissible because the "witness" could not correctly identify a human face in the courtroom or in a picture.
YOUR irrationality begs for similar company in others, and you have attempted to transfer a part of your irrationality to me and others to help your troubled mind.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
yyz
And best wishes to you too.
yyz
not rated yet Nov 08, 2011
@Skultch,

One can only wonder how much "hidden" life Pirouette has found on the multitude of images of other imaged bodies in the Solar System (Hyperion, Umbriel, Mercury, Triton, Vesta, Itokawa, Halley, etc.) LOL
Skultch
not rated yet Nov 08, 2011
Your first post receive 16 one votes out of 16. 16 different people don't see what you think you see. Why don't you react introspectively to that? Are all 16 as irrational as you think I am? What is the probability of that?

Who is your "professional" and when was his/her last eye exam and/or psych eval?

The pics are evidence to you, but not to me (us), therefore *I* (we) don't consider it a theory yet. I choose my words carefully and I know what they mean. I didn't ask for your help. If you are not going to answer my questions, then this isn't really a discussion, is it? If you don't like or want my investigating, fine, we can end this any time you like. Just LMK, and I'll stop psychoanalyzing you. If you won't participate in that, then I have no other purpose in this thread.
Skultch
5 / 5 (1) Nov 08, 2011
@Skultch,

One can only wonder how much "hidden" life Pirouette has found on the multitude of images of other imaged bodies in the Solar System (Hyperion, Umbriel, Mercury, Triton, Vesta, Itokawa, Halley, etc.) LOL


One day while on mushrooms I kept seeing faces in canyon walls and clouds. Pretty cool, but temporary. Knowing a schizophrenic that is past his denial stage (usually takes years of therapy) has made me appreciate the ability to induce hallucinations and simultaneously know that they are hallucinations. Not having control of them or being able to identify what they really are is incredibly scary, stressful, and depressing. To date, it is the tragedy of our lives. This is what motivates me to understand normal and abnormal psychology.
yyz
5 / 5 (1) Nov 08, 2011
Skultch,

I can relate with what you say (both re the hallucinogens and knowing a long-time aquaintence diagnosed with schizophrenia, undifferentiated. Both gave me new ways to interpret how I perceive and interact with others. I appreciate your thoughtful replies to Pirouette here, as he genuinely appears sincere...though misguided.

Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
yyz says:
@Skultch,

One can only wonder how much "hidden" life Pirouette has found on the multitude of images of other imaged bodies in the Solar System (Hyperion, Umbriel, Mercury, Triton, Vesta, Itokawa, Halley, etc.) LOL


yyz, You need not continue your wondering. We only work with the HiRise raw images from Mars and no others. So you can relax, you will not be inundated with other pictures from elsewhere in the Universe from us.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011

skultch says: """Your first post receive 16 one votes out of 16. 16 different people don't see what you think you see. Why don't you react introspectively to that? Are all 16 as irrational as you think I am? What is the probability of that? """

FYI. . .FrankHerbert and his alter-egos follow me around in threads. In case you weren't aware, you can go into a thread and give "ones" to everyone you hate or dislike or has proven you wrong, even without commenting, and then change your name over and over to give ones over and over. Pass it on. He does this to me every time since I questioned his ability to comprehend sentences.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
I'm sure admin knows about these things and probably think it gives interest to the website. LOL
Pirouette
1 / 5 (2) Nov 08, 2011
@Skultch
As I've said to you earlier in this thread when you started in on me, "IF YOU ARE AN ASTROBIOLOGIST, THEN WE CAN DISCUSS IT FURTHER". Since you have proven not to be an Astrobiologist, then we have nothing further to discuss since I much prefer talking about Martian life forms with a PROFESSIONAL scientist who knows what he's talking about. I am wasting my time with you and I am not interested in your mental evaluations of me or the rest of the human race. You and your opinions are only important to yourself. I will no longer reply directly to you, but I will refer this thread to one and all who ask why you continue your obsession with me. The Mars pictures speak for themselves. If you disagree, then don't look.