CERN and colliding theories
October 10, 2011 By Lawrence M. Krauss
Findings that showed faster-than-light travel were released to the public too soon.
What do you do as a scientist when you know a research result that is almost certainly wrong is about to become a media sensation? That is the quandary I found myself in last month as I awaited the announcement from CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, about particles called neutrinos supposedly traveling faster than the speed of light. I had already been informed about the experiment, whose findings, if true, would require an overhaul of physics: Our current understanding - based on Einstein's theory of relativity and consistent with every known physical theory and experiment - is that nothing can travel through space faster than the speed of light.
I hoped that somehow the result would escape the attention of the world news media, but I knew better: A news conference had been scheduled. On the other hand - except for the die-hard would-be Einsteins who have already begun to write me suggesting that the CERN result proves their pet theories - I also knew that for the general public the claim would prove to be a momentary curiosity, forgotten along with much of the rest of yesterday's news.
First, why is it likely that the neutrino result has a mundane rather than earth-shattering explanation? To start, experiments with neutrinos are notoriously difficult - one can only "see" them through rare interactions with other matter. If one produces many neutrinos at a source, one cannot merely track them one by one but must detect the neutrino "pulse" by probabilistic means.
The claim that neutrinos arrived at the Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy from CERN's Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland on average 60 billionths of a second before they would have if they were traveling at light speed relies on complicated statistical analysis. It must take into account the modeling of the detectors and how long their response time is, careful synchronization of clocks and a determination of the distance between the CERN accelerator and the Gran Sasso detector accurate to a distance of a few meters. Each of these factors has intrinsic uncertainties that, if misestimated, could lead to an erroneous conclusion
It's equally important that the speed of light as the ultimate speed limit has been tested numerous times in many situations over the last century, and it has held up. The predictions that flow from it have been correct, in certain cases to better than parts per billion. In addition, more than 20 years ago a colleague and I demonstrated that neutrinos and light traveled the 150,000-year voyage from a distant exploding star at the same speed to an accuracy of better than one part in a billion. This was derived from fact that 19 neutrino "events" - interactions - were observed in two underground detectors within four hours of the visual signal coming from the exploding star. If the same deviation that was claimed in the new experiment applied to the neutrinos in our experiment, they would have arrived instead several years after the visual signal.
This doesn't disprove the CERN result, but it means that for it to be true, physicists must come up with a pretty contrived way of having neutrino velocities vary under different conditions.
Given the potential problems with the CERN finding, the way it was presented to the world is cause for concern. A dramatic claim from a distinguished laboratory that turns out to be false reinforces the notion that somehow science is not to be trusted, that one can dismiss theories one finds inconvenient, even those whose predictions do agree with observations. This particular claim also reinforces the notion that scientific revolutions sweep away all that went before them. This is not how science progresses. Results that have withstood the test of experiment will continue to remain valid, no matter how physical theory evolves.
The researchers involved in the CERN result have not made exaggerated claims about their findings. They have merely pointed out an anomaly with their experimental result. Their paper will be examined and carefully dissected by knowledgeable referees who will decide if it is worthy of publication.
What is inappropriate, however, is the publicity fanfare coming before the paper has even been examined by referees. Too often today, science is done by news release rather than waiting for refereed publication. Because a significant fraction of experimental results ultimately never get published or are not later confirmed, providing unfiltered results to a largely untutored public is irresponsible.
The CERN result may indeed herald something new and remarkable. But if the overwhelming suspicions that greeted it are true instead, then the public presentation is unfortunate and misleading.
The Large Hadron Collider at CERN is one of the most complex and remarkable machine humans have ever built, and it may one day reveal remarkable new insights into the nature of reality. To date, the careful analyses done by the major experiments there have not produced any new discoveries. It would be a shame for CERN, and for science, if its legacy in the public's mind is a result that will one day be shown to be wrong.
More information: Lawrence M. Krauss is director of the Origins Project at Arizona State University.
(c)2011 the Los Angeles Times
Distributed by MCT Information Services
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Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (8)
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 4.3 / 5 (4)
one of my true loves is spreading the word of science, but as you say, we must be careful to not let science become an artifact of pop culture, it is to be respected and cherished for its honesty
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 2.8 / 5 (9)
Protecting funding of expensive scientific projects may be important, but do notice that we, so prone to misunderstand, are funding them.
Not encouraging the lunatic fringe may be important, but we are not only the fringe.
Your agendas may be laudable, but sitting on information because you and your peers know better than we do is not the way. Peer review is important, but so is free news.
Ultimately, we have to be the judge of source, value and importance of news, so get out of the way please.
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 3.5 / 5 (6)
In general, I see your points, but I also have a bit of a thrill that we will get to see some "real" science played out here, with the curtains open, and I'm not sure that's all a bad thing. The very fact that the researchers at CERN are *not* making exaggerated claims is a positive step to a productive process.
It also probably helps that the implications of this research are currently so far removed from daily life, that exaggerated claims are hard to make. (Contrast with the "cold fusion" debacle, where everyone immediately jumped to the idea of limitless, free power on your countertop...)
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (5)
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (5)
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 4.6 / 5 (13)
> It would be a shame for CERN, and for science,
> if its legacy in the public's mind is a result that
> will one day be shown to be wrong.
Remember when the Hubble space telescope was launched with a flawed mirror, and whole project took intense drubbing in the media? Then after the optics were corrected, what a stunning new view of the universe we had! That early fumble is now barely remembered.
What the Public needs is to see science in action, warts and all. Science depends on its practitioners being BOTH open-minded AND skeptical. Too often the public is spoon-fed a sanitized story that scientists rarely make mistakes, and that once a theory is "proved", it becomes unchanging Truth. Science today is at risk of intimidating kids out of even entering this grand enterprise.
Knock it off!
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (7)
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
Science is a process and the more minds aware of the current questions and controversies the better for our progress as a species.
No more hiding the decline please.
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (5)
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Sorry. No reputable scientist makes that claim. You are mistaken.
Oct 10, 2011
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (6)
Don't get your knickers in a bunch. Every article I saw presented these results as an anomoly which was probably wrong. So even anti-science elephants should have gotten the message.
The scientific community should not worry about how science is presented to the public, as long as the science being presented is reported accurately - warts and all.
The only exception to this rule should be in those areas where there are public anti-science campaigns being run by corporate or private organizations. Examples of such anti-science propaganda include the campaign against climate science by oil interests and Libertarian/Randites. The other would be the campaign against evolution by religious zealots.
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 4.7 / 5 (3)
yet he doesnt actually explain and/or prove the specifics. no one else has yet either. this was released partly because the researchers looked and looked and couldnt find an explanation for the results. of course it was going to make waves, thats good. the more interested people are in it the more people will focus on it and try to figure out whats going on.
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 4.5 / 5 (2)
You can't put a value on the publicity generated and getting people to think and be aware of "Big Physics".
This uplifts many people who have been dumbed down, and can only have positive effects.
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 4.5 / 5 (4)
An open process protects all of us. It's unfortunate that someone who favors openness would create exceptions in order to dismiss their philosophical opponents as anti-Science... in which case they believe Science should be protected from public scrutiny.
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
It's no secret in the science world that certain theories held as truth do not play well with each other and that a new model is needed to explain how matter interacts on all levels. I would prefer a world of wannabe-Einsteins than a world without.
Let's show the world the scientific method in action.
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Secondly, the author doesn't really suggest any reason for a difference between his real world test and the CERN experiment. I could be wrong, but I would suggest that perhaps neutrinos in space might be slowed down by the gravitational pull of various bodies that they travel by, while the CERN experiment, I understand, doesn't really have those same gravitational forces.
Basically, the op-ed piece shows that the author is more concerned about losing the prestige of his 20 yr old experiment and possibly losing his position as "top dog" in the field, rather than furthering science and introducing science to otherwise disinterested people. I believe the technical term for such behavior is Jealousy.
Oct 11, 2011
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (4)
Oct 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
For a real world example of how excited people are, I had 7 or 8 of the 15 people who i work with who are not science that much that know that i am were excited about it and wanted to talk to me about it. The last time i can remember anything close was when they were talking about the number of black holes calculated to exist in the universe and that was just a few of them.
Oct 12, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
A wordy article. Let's summarize:
Dear all concern,
Preemptive strikes are fashionable.(See original wording)
If you are collateral damage, tough shit.
Your loving Krauss.
Kiss, kiss.
Oct 12, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Oct 13, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
In a vacuum, a quantum soup of particles is constantly coming into & out of existance. Light interacts with these particles. Nutrinos interact with matter alot less, so the speed of nutrinos in the earth's crust could actually be closer to "c" (but still a bit slower). The speed of neutrinos in a vacuum would begin to approach the real value of "c".
In addition to these temporary particles, a vacuum may also contain a Higgs field, which could be another factor in slowing the speed of light below the real value of "c".
Jim Burrill
jburrill {at} gmail {dot} com
Oct 13, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Miss Anne Elk: Can I just say here for one moment that I have a new theory about the brontosaurus.
Presenter: Exactly.
[long pause]
Presenter: Well, what is it?
Miss Anne Elk: [looks around, concerned] Where?
Presenter: No, no, your new theory.
Miss Anne Elk: Oh, what is my theory?
Presenter: Yes.
Miss Anne Elk: Oh, what is my theory that it is. Well, you may well ask me what is my theory.
Presenter: I am asking.
Miss Anne Elk: Good for you. My word yes. Well, what it is that it is - this theory of mine. Well, this is what it is - my theory that I have, that is to say, which is mine, is mine.
Presenter: Yes, I know it's yours, what is it?
Miss Anne Elk: [looks round again] Where? Oh, what is my theory? This is it.
(with respect to Monty Python and the brontosaurus)
Call it what you like. A Higgs field, virtual particles or spacetime. Its an Aether.
Oct 13, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Pick any arbitrary number. Label this 'c'.
If not exceeded, then do not pass go.
The monopoly of theory.
Oct 14, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Oct 16, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Lol, and there's no shortage of 'die-hard would-be Einsteins' on this site apparently :P
Oct 16, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
"...I also knew that for the general public the claim would prove to be a momentary curiosity, forgotten along with much of the rest of yesterday's news."
Krauss, I forgot what I wanted to say.
Now you can vouch for your statement. Just quote me. lol
Oct 17, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Oct 17, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)