An alien code close to home: Seeking ET beyond the radio silence

Oct 28, 2011 By Jeremy Hsu
Allen Telescope Array. Credit: SETI.org

Any intelligent extraterrestrial life that exists probably won't announce itself by blowing up the White House, or win over the hearts of children as a lovable alien with a glowing finger. Many scientists simply hope to find evidence of them by scanning the skies for a radio signal from a distant star's alien civilization. But such efforts may also risk overlooking clues of past alien activity right here on Earth.

If aliens did leave their mark on by some wild chance, we could search for the possible "footprints" of alien technology or even analyze the DNA of terrestrial organisms for signs of intelligent messages or tinkering. Such a CSI-style forensics search could complement, rather than replace, the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) astronomers who continue to look skyward, said Paul Davies, a physicist and at Arizona State University in Tempe, Ariz.

"My proposals aim to spread the burden from a small band of heroic radio astronomers to the entire scientific community," Davies said. "Projects like genomic SETI are an attempt to complement radio SETI, not undermine it."

Davies wants scientists to broaden their thinking about how aliens could have left behind their mark. Having worked with SETI for three decades, he has written about his ideas in a book, "The Eerie Silence" (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2010) and articles such as one that appeared in the online August edition of the journal Acta Astronautica.

But Davies does not think such intelligent alien life must necessarily exist. And his many years of supporting SETI have not stopped him from describing the needle-in-a-haystack search as "a search without any clue as to whether there is a needle there at all, or how large the haystack may be."

Alien signposts

To their credit, SETI astronomers have not ignored the possibilities beyond extraterrestrials deliberately beaming a message straight at Earth. Suggestions over the past 50 years include extraterrestrial radio traffic that happens to pass by, or a powerful radio or optical beacon that sweeps the Milky Way galaxy like a lighthouse.

A very advanced might have built huge astro-engineering projects called Dyson spheres to directly tap the power of stars. By putting a shell of material around a host star, aliens would not only trap much of the star's heat, but also create a unique infrared signature that Earth astronomers could detect.

Mouse and DNA. A mouse's tail that transforms into a strand of DNA. Credit: Darryl Leja , NHGRI

Just as Earth sends out robotic explorers, an alien civilization could have left behind dormant probes at strategic locations such as in the asteroid belt. Earth astronomers could try searching for such probes or even beaming "hello" radio messages to suspected locations in an attempt to "wake up" the probes.

Left behind

There's also a chance that past visits to Earth by intelligent aliens left signs much closer to home. But probability and the length of the universe's age suggest that any such alien visit would have taken place before humans ever emerged on Earth, Davies said.

That means any traces of an alien visitation would have had to survive for hundreds of millions or billions of years for humans to still find them today.

"If there is another form of life on Earth, we could find it within 20 years, if we take the trouble to look," Davies told Astrobiology Magazine. "Of course, it may not be there, but searching our own planet is far easier than searching another one."

Diagram of a Dyson Sphere. Credit: Wikipedia

Non-human deposits of nuclear waste consisting of plutonium would point to artificial origins, because natural deposits would have long since decayed, Davies said. Scars of mining or quarrying could remain buried beneath the Earth or on its moon.

Alien "messages in a bottle" or artifacts similar to the monoliths of "2001: A Space Odyssey" would seem less likely to survive for hundreds of millions of years on Earth because of geological and weather forces.

Shadow life

Perhaps the most fascinating possibility is if aliens used bioengineering to leave behind unintentional or intentional traces or messages in the DNA of life on Earth. The self-perpetuating nature of could help ensure survival of any such biologically-embedded messages.

Citizen scientists and school students could pitch in to run genomic versions of SETI programs to find any such traces, Davies said. Data-mining software programs could do much of the heavy lifting as just a small part of the usual genomic analyses going on in everyday research.

Alien bioengineering might have also created a "shadow biosphere" of life built upon biochemistry separate from that of Earth life forms. Examples would be life forms that don’t use DNA or proteins, or incorporate different elements in their biochemistry than all other known life forms on Earth do. Scientists have already begun major efforts to find shadow biospheres, but of natural rather than artificial origins.

If scientists find "weird" shadow organisms that arose separately from the Earth life forms we know, that won't necessarily suggest intelligent alien involvement. But such a find could give more credibility to the idea that life has a good chance of arising when given the right circumstances, rather than simply being a one-time freak accident, Davies said. And that might make everyone feel a little less alone.

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User comments : 97

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mlange
2.3 / 5 (6) Oct 28, 2011
As far as a "shadow biosphere", we've already discovered extremophiles who's DNA use Arsenic instead of Phosphorus. [http://www.scienc...034/1163]. Lets also not forget, while we're just entering the era of metamaterials, civilizations far advanced than us have prob mastered nanotech pretty well. I'm confident any 'Alien' technology out there to be discovered will simply move photons around to make it invisible to electromagnetic detection. We can pretty much do that in our labs now and we're dumb. Dumb compared to anything that makes it's way to Earth from another star system that is.
sstritt
1 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2011
I'm very interested in the concept of hidden messages in the DNA. I recall an episode of Star Trek in which an ancient alien race encoded a message into the DNA of a number of worlds. I wonder how such a message could be detected.
Squirrel
1 / 5 (4) Oct 28, 2011
Given the precautions NASA makes so that Earth microbes do not accidentally hitch a ride on probes and contaminate another body in the solar system, surely no extraterrestrial presumably smarter than us would do this--except intentionally.
jamesrm
4.5 / 5 (8) Oct 28, 2011
If Paul Davies and Michio Kaku had a baby it would be the ultimate science media whore
Phideaux
5 / 5 (2) Oct 28, 2011
J Craig Venter already encoded a message into his synthetic genome.
Arkaleus
1.4 / 5 (9) Oct 28, 2011
I've never understood why the emphasis was on radio based SETI. It's a silly anthropomorphism to expect multi-mullion year old interstellar cultures to use radio waves.

We should be looking for more universal indicators of intelligent activity - light. Optical SETI is just now becoming technically feasible and should be the primary emphasis. If a solar system is inhabited by a technological species, we should be able to see their light traces.
hemitite
2.8 / 5 (11) Oct 28, 2011
As others have noted, we are nuts to be flooding the galaxy with our radio nose. We have absolutely no idea who or what is out there and what they may be capable of. Perhaps the reason that we haven't heard from "ET" is that other intelligent races have figured this out and are maintaining radio silence.
Aliensarethere
5 / 5 (4) Oct 28, 2011
@hemitite: ET can analyse the Earth's atmosphere and conclude that there is life here. There's no way we can hide from a sophisticated civilization.
TopherTO
4.5 / 5 (4) Oct 28, 2011
In defense of SEDI and searching for radio waves, we should at least keep in mind the distances involved. Should we detect a signal, it could easily have derived from a source millions of light years away. They obviously wouldn't be using radio signals now, but at some point in their development, like our own, they went through an era where they were widely utilized.
Temple
5 / 5 (6) Oct 28, 2011
hematite:
As others have noted, we are nuts to be flooding the galaxy with our radio nose.


You understand that we've only 'flooded' a sphere of the galaxy which is on the order of 100ly in radius right? That's on the order of about 15,000 stars, or about 0.000005% of the stars in our galaxy.

We're not "flooding our galaxy with radio waves". Most of the radio waves we are emitting are incredibly weak as well.

Indeed, that's one of the problems with looking for extra-terrestrial intelligence via radio waves. The normal radio 'pollution' of a society will not only likely be rather quiet and rather short lived (as they potentially migrate away from broadcast radio, and towards more efficient directed light communication like fibre optics or the like).

SETI is looking for any non-natural radio broadcasts, but the reality is that they expect anything they do find (unless quite close) will be a specificaly-broadcast 'Hello Universe' message, with way more power than necessary.
Temple
not rated yet Oct 28, 2011
@TopherTO:
In defense of SEDI and searching for radio waves, we should at least keep in mind the distances involved. Should we detect a signal, it could easily have derived from a source millions of light years away. They obviously wouldn't be using radio signals now, but at some point in their development, like our own, they went through an era where they were widely utilized.


Agreed in principle, but our galaxy is only about 100,000 light years at its widest. We're not expecting to find many/any radio broadcasts from other galaxies. While the window is a couple orders of magnitude smaller than you mention, your point is certainly valid.
Jeffhans1
not rated yet Oct 28, 2011
So they are looking for things such as: http://www.scient...-reactor
kornus
1 / 5 (2) Oct 28, 2011
what we need radio silence for?? if we continuously exposing our selfs with TV signals, everything U see alien civilization will see as soon as signal reach their star system :)
Shabs42
not rated yet Oct 28, 2011
I'm very interested in the concept of hidden messages in the DNA. I recall an episode of Star Trek in which an ancient alien race encoded a message into the DNA of a number of worlds. I wonder how such a message could be detected.


This is also a similar idea to the Descoladores in the Ender saga. They send out a virus to terraform planets. If I recall correctly the book ends just as the humans discover their home planet and are attempting to figure out how to communicate with them as they seem to communicate through customized DNA sequences or bacteria or something like that.
Cynical1
1 / 5 (5) Oct 28, 2011
What we could possibly consider (taking into account the difficulties of visiting Earth as a tourist destination) is previous "earth-born" intelligences. There would have little to prevent earlier iterations of life(reptiles, amphibians, insects, et al) from advancing to the same level of "intellect" that we possess. If we look at the length of individual archaelogical ages of our "biosphere" - they certainly had the time...
And - if a few of them are still around - it would certainly provide a possible explanation to the different "types" of aliens observed by witnesses, abductees and conspiracy theorists alike.
The DNA evidence of their "coded message" is in us and all around us.

"The funny thing about "the big picture" is that there always turns out to be a bigger picture..."
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Oct 28, 2011
@Cynical1
I was hesitant at first in commenting in this thread because the last time I made a comment about intelligent Extraterrestrials that have been to Earth and also are on Mars, the person who asked me for the proof, and to whom I gave it to, never bothered to comment on that same thread again. . . .at least I don't think so. He may have changed to another name, but I waited and waited, then I gave up since others were talking about the main topic of the article. After I joined in that discussion of the main topic, I didn't really go back again to explaining about the E.T.s on planet Mars, of which I have pictures. I was very disappointed that the person who asked me for proof did not go further on about it within the thread, for I had hoped to educate my fellow commenters on the truth that is "swept under the rug", so to speak. It is a sore point with some people who might prefer not to hear about actual E.T.s, whether on Earth or on Mars or elsewhere.
xznofile
5 / 5 (1) Oct 28, 2011
while searching for radio signals, we should also consider what kind of civilization would continue to use radio after newer forms of transmission became available. I propose they would be a small group of specialists like horse breeders (or radio astronomers) who persist after they become culturally obsolete simply because they're specialists. This facet of nerd to nerd communication has never been fully explored. They would probably be expecting to dazzle the terrestrials with novel technique so that no-reply would be proof of superior geek skill. If this is true, we need to concentrate on the devious things we haven't thought of yet. We can't let them do this to us.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Oct 28, 2011
I think that most people are waiting for confirmation of the real existence of intelligent E.T.s, from the mouths of scientists themselves and, of course, it is known as fact that certain government agencies known as "black ops" have given a "gag order" to scientists to continue their search so as to keep getting funding and keep the public interested in such matters. . . .but NEVER to break the silence on the existence of E.T.
Continued funding enables the government to also keep up the pretext of wanting to look for and find microbes in the soil and rocks of Mars and many people have said that the rovers will never be sent to any area where the scientists and gov't agencies KNOW that large life exists. So, they will keep hunting for germs and we, the American taxpayers will not know the truth until the gov't is good and ready to give us that information.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (7) Oct 28, 2011
I tend to agree that radio is not the ideal venue for communications between E.T.s and other E.T.s, and that the best system MIGHT be the use of photons, probably in the form of dots and dashed, if that is possible. Sort of a Morse code with light. I kind of agree with the Dyson's sphere theory also. I don't know why, but I think that a signal going through a star would give that special ooooomph to boost the signal and carry it much further. (Sorry about the ooooomph, I couldn't think of a better word).
Newbeak
5 / 5 (2) Oct 28, 2011
I think that most people are waiting for confirmation of the real existence of intelligent E.T.s,..

I think the government is as clueless as to the nature of UFOs as anyone.Get this book from your local library:UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities by Colonel John B. Alexander, Ph.D.
He had contacts in the defence industry,all the sensitive intelligence agencies,at the top levels of clearance.In his experience,as he relates it in his book,all these contacts assumed OTHER agencies were looking into the UFO matter,which tells you that NONE were involved in any secret government programs,for the simple reason NO government organization is looking into the subject in a serious manner.If it makes the conspiracy nuts feel any better,he also says he thinks there is something physical involved in the UFO experience,but it is unlikely to involve real aliens visiting the planet.This is due to the huge number of differences in reported shapes of UFOs,among other things.
Humpty
1.6 / 5 (7) Oct 28, 2011
I beam down messages from intelligent life in the galaxy.

It's jesus! - in low earth orbit!
Urgelt
2.3 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2011
I don't remember any discovery of arsenic replacing phosphorus in natural life forms. Perhaps I missed it.

I do remember an experiment where a researcher forced arsenic into an extremophile and got it to replace some phosphorus molecules in its DNA. The organism, however, sickened.

As proof that arsenic-based DNA can arise naturally, the experiment failed to deliver proof.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 28, 2011
@Newbeak
I refer you to this Wikepedia page on the Brookings Institute report. While the Institute doesn't completely recommend a coverup, it also does not recommend exposing the existence of E.T. due to various differences in attitude and beliefs of the populace, as well as government leadership.

http://en.wikiped...s_Report
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Oct 28, 2011
Urgelt said:
""As proof that arsenic-based DNA can arise naturally, the experiment failed to deliver proof.""

As I recall the experiment, the researcher(s) found these extremophiles in a wasteland out in the desert, I think it was. Or was it in a cave? Anyway, the research was to find out if these creatures could change their eating habits from their natural menu to something that the researchers imagined would be plentiful on another world. It was bound to fail. These little "bugs" live on or in the Earth, not Mars, Europa or Venus. Their habitat is here and it was stupid to make them adapt to an entirely foreign diet without allowing evolution to help adapt them first to the arsenic. How cruel.
Alexander_Herrmann
1 / 5 (1) Oct 29, 2011
"Just as Earth sends out robotic explorers, an alien civilization could have left behind dormant probes at strategic locations such as in the asteroid belt. Earth astronomers could try searching for such probes or even beaming "hello" radio messages to suspected locations in an attempt to "wake up" the probes".

So my opinion to this is Earth is already sending out continuous Hello on several frequencies and we earthlings may just be to noisy to hear a response. And even if we here a response we may not identify it because of our own information overload. To be audible at the same frequencies a alien space probe would need to 'overcry' our 24h/7d/365d signal and this could be considered a aggresive act so it won't do it. The answer may be given changing our continious stream but this would go unoticed by most of us and the ones who may be able to figure it out won't talk about it -
Mr Bill
not rated yet Oct 29, 2011
@Cynical1
I was hesitant at first in commenting in this thread because the last time I made a comment about intelligent Extraterrestrials that have been to Earth and also are on Mars, the person who asked me for the proof, and to whom I gave it to, never bothered to comment on that same thread again. . . .at least I don't think so. He may have changed to another name, but I waited and waited, then I gave up since others were talking about the main topic of the article. After I joined in that discussion of the main topic, I didn't really go back again to explaining about the E.T.s on planet Mars, of which I have pictures. I was very disappointed that the person who asked me for proof did not go further on about it within the thread, for I had hoped to educate my fellow commenters on the truth that is "swept under the rug", so to speak. It is a sore point with some people who might prefer not to hear about actual E.T.s, whether on Earth or on Mars or elsewhere.

Ignatius P. Riley
Mr Bill
2 / 5 (4) Oct 29, 2011
Maybe the advanced civilizations are already tuned into a quantum radio station of some sort that is truly in real instantaneous time. Once a civilization makes the devise they get "updated" about what has been going on in the universe. Anybody who is really hip is already on line. You still can't travel to visit each other though because of the distances ... or could you? If you were to send the complete instructions to recreate yourself through the NOW Machine then you could colonize that way. If there is such a thing as a NOW Machine and we make one, we had better be careful when it goes on line. Then again, what the heck...
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2011
Does PhysOrg not have the technical resources to block this advertising spam? It's all over here the last few days. Geez!
Newbeak
5 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2011
Does PhysOrg not have the technical resources to block this advertising spam? It's all over here the last few days. Geez!

You click on the report abuse button,I assume? I do.Maybe if enough posters did,the webmaster would move faster to remove it.As well,this site needs an "ignore user" button.Another site I am a member of has this feature.When you click on it,the offending post is not shown.
Newbeak
not rated yet Oct 29, 2011
@Newbeak
I refer you to this Wikepedia page on the Brookings Institute report. While the Institute doesn't completely recommend a coverup, it also does not recommend exposing the existence of E.T. due to various differences in attitude and beliefs of the populace, as well as government leadership.

http://en.wikiped...s_Report

That report is 50 years out of date.Society has been inundated with sci-fi movies and tv shows since it came out,and religious beliefs have become far less important in most western countries.People are much more comfortable with the notion of life on other worlds-even the Vatican has accepted it.With the internet,keeping something like alien contact hidden is now ,for all intents and purposes,impossible.
If you do get a chance to read Alexander's book,I am sure you will be left with the impression,as I was,that what governments have been saying all along is true:they are as mystified about UFOs as much as the guy on the street.
sstritt
1 / 5 (4) Oct 29, 2011
@pirouette
You got pics of ET on Mars? Let's see'm!
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2011
Does PhysOrg not have the technical resources to block this advertising spam? It's all over here the last few days. Geez!

You click on the report abuse button,I assume? I do.Maybe if enough posters did,the webmaster would move faster to remove it.As well,this site needs an "ignore user" button.Another site I am a member of has this feature.When you click on it,the offending post is not shown.


Yes, I used it. I only became familiar with the sight less than a year ago, and I've had an account for a short while. But, I don't recall ever seeing much in the way of these spam attacks until very recently. I agree with you on the "ignore user". And I've said before I wish they would not lock you out of your post after just a couple of minutes. Can't edit, correct, delete, etc. Seems like a very antiquated system compared to other sites.
Bookbinder
5 / 5 (1) Oct 29, 2011
Radio waves? Shouldn't we be looking for courier pigeons?
Newbeak
not rated yet Oct 29, 2011
And I've said before I wish they would not lock you out of your post after just a couple of minutes. Can't edit, correct, delete, etc. Seems like a very antiquated system compared to other sites.

I had the same problem a while ago.Somebody posted the suggestion to clear your cache,history,or something like that,I don't exactly remember.I do recall that following their advise seemed to help me.I agree they could allow a little more time to edit one's post.As far as spam is concerned,it's my experience that it flares up on occasions.I doubt there is a way to stop it,as it is uploaded by a human spammer,I assume.Maybe something like the Watson software could be adapted to intelligently weed out spam posts,lol!
Newbeak
not rated yet Oct 29, 2011
@pirouette
You got pics of ET on Mars? Let's see'm!

If he is referring to the face on Mars,that one has been debunked as a case of suggestive lighting.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Oct 29, 2011
The face on Mars is geology. I was not referring to pictures of geology. There is a lot of geological formations on Mars that resemble Earth creatures, but are possibly art. Please keep in mind that the humanoids I referred to are SEMI-TRANSPARENT, not solid as we are.

see: www.marscritters.blogspot.com
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 29, 2011
@Nerdy and others:
The spammers, if you've noticed, do not display their website URL as a link that you can just click on. . .if that was the case, then site admin could deem their spam as spam and delete it. The spammers make it so that you have to copy and paste the URL, that's how they get away with it.
Newbeak
5 / 5 (1) Oct 29, 2011
@Nerdy and others:
The spammers, if you've noticed, do not display their website URL as a link that you can just click on. . .if that was the case, then site admin could deem their spam as spam and delete it. The spammers make it so that you have to copy and paste the URL, that's how they get away with it.


Good point,I never considered that.Looks like the webmaster is working Saturdays.I notice the posts I flagged as abuse a few hours ago are gone.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Oct 29, 2011
I think they're on call 24/7, but it does takes time for them to get to ALL the spam and have to go down in each thread to read them as they're alerted. I've alerted admin also, but I noticed that the same spam was still there when I looked a few hours later. It's prolly gone by now though.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 29, 2011
@Newsbeak
Although it's true that the Brookings Institute report is over 50 years old and that we have moved on from the conditions that were prevalent back in 1960, have you not wondered just WHY so many TV shows and movies were about Extraterrestrials all through the years and the military, particularly the Air Force balked at revealing anything about "flying saucers" and aliens?
When anybody DID manage to acquire anything through the FOIA from the government, whole paragraphs were blacked out so that no one could read the contents And it wasn't just to hide names and addresses. If there was nothing to all the sightings of E.T.s and alien spacecraft, then why all the secrecy? I think the answer to that is that certain agencies of the government is dealing with that "problem" in their own way and is jealously guarding their information from getting out to the public.
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2011
@Nerdy and others:
The spammers, if you've noticed, do not display their website URL as a link that you can just click on. . .if that was the case, then site admin could deem their spam as spam and delete it. The spammers make it so that you have to copy and paste the URL, that's how they get away with it.


Good point,I never considered that.Looks like the webmaster is working Saturdays.I notice the posts I flagged as abuse a few hours ago are gone.


Same.
Skultch
5 / 5 (1) Oct 29, 2011
asked me for the proof, and to whom I gave it to


Let US see your proof, Pirouette. Thanks.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2011
I say "jealously" because their role is of guardians and their other role is to DISINFORM AND MISinform the American public so as to KEEP THEIR JOBS. There is an awful lot of taxpayers' money that somehow "DISAPPEARS" and nobody knows what happened to that money. I think it lands in the pockets of these agencies. I'm also sure that money is being used for something else, not just to pay their salaries and build nice quarters. If I was a lot younger, I would do some investigating. LOL
Col. Alexander is most likely paid to disinform also, and many or most people fall for it every time. He teases a lot in the book, otherwise how is he going to sell his ideas?
Jeddy_Mctedder
1 / 5 (5) Oct 29, 2011
i have yet to see a science experiment where a sattelite sent to mars or beyond is programmed to look randomly for radio signals, and then beems us back the date on which it 'discovers us'.

i bet it would not be able to find the radio noise of earth if it were programmed to be ignorant of earths location.
Newbeak
5 / 5 (1) Oct 29, 2011
@Newsbeak
Although it's true that the Brookings Institute report is over 50 years old and that we have moved on from the conditions that were prevalent back in 1960, have you not wondered..

If you read Alexander's book,you would get a taste of how things work in the military/intelligence community from someone who lived it.I thought largely how you do before I read the book,and firmly believed "they" were hiding "something".I now believe the reason FOIA releases have blacked out text is to protect sensitive technology/sources in most cases.Sci-fi movies and tv shows about aliens are popular because we live in the most high tech period in history,and besides,we are learning through astronomy that there are extra-solar planets,some possibly supporting life.Again,Alexander is NOT saying the best UFO sighting reports have mundane,down-to-earth explanations-he thinks some revolutionary things could be learned from them.It's just that some people let their imaginations run rampant.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2011
I am aware that there are conspiracy theorists on the topic of UFO contact. FYI, a UFO contact isn't only for a close encounter. It can also be comprised of a visual sighting that is a full recognition that the object is not of this Earth. Of course, there are sightings that later on are revealed to be some kind of AIRCRAFT, not an E.T. spacecraft.
The fact that researchers were shown pages of blanked out lines does NOT necessarily indicate that the lines contained classified information. IF there were really classified information pertaining to OUR sensitive technology on each page, then the agency responsible for those pages should have redacted that sensitive information and separated it from the UFO contact information for which the researcher had accessed the FOIA. Researchers need to request this as soon as possible, to avoid confusion between evidence of true E.T. contact and classified government documents.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2011
Another thing to consider is that these blanked out pages were supplied to the researchers as regarding UFO contacts, in the first place. If the heading on each page was titled with the letters, UFO or something related, then that should indicate that that is all about UFOs. I fail to understand the logic to including sensitive tech material in a page about UFOs, UNLESS the sensitive material IS ABOUT the UFOs.

Sci-fi movies and TV shows are very entertaining, absolutely, but there IS a smattering of people who think that these shows are designed to compel "Earthlings" to be ready for the possible influx or out-worlders who may or may not look like us. It IS a consideration when you get down to it, and not just because authors and producers are prolific with a sci-fi bent.
It's hard to deny that these shows would be an excellent means of getting the population ready for something. . .whatever it is. It's a little like propaganda films, but entertaining.
I will wait for more data.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 29, 2011
I will read the book, in full this time. But there are several other authors, including astronauts and military and airline pilots who have witnessed UFOs. There are just too many credible witnesses to pass it off as imagination or some other excuse.
My own observance of this whole thing, apart from my OWN UFO contact is, WHAT DOES IT MATTER to me and others that there is other large life in the Universe or in our own backyard?
It doesn't affect me and mine, unless the pilot and crew of the spacecraft that I saw are hostile. THEN we have a problem.
Blakut
4 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2011
Yes Pirouette, but it's getting the US ready, not the world... for you see, you've forgot to include the other 6 billion people of this planet in your little conspiracy theory :))
Newbeak
5 / 5 (1) Oct 29, 2011
I am aware that there are conspiracy theorists on the topic of UFO contact.

Well,the best suggestion I have is read a book written by an insider,and then make your mind up.You have to look at both sides of things to make an informed decision,and Alexander's book is a rare inside look at how the system really works.
Newbeak
3.5 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2011
I will read the book, in full this time. But there are several other authors, including astronauts and military and airline pilots who have witnessed UFOs.

Agree,and Alexander acknowledges this,and goes on to say in effect that these events represent the potential of greatly expanding our knowledge.Of particular interest are visual cases involving competent witnesses in different locations backed up with radar tracking.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2011
@piro
Fifty pounds of words is only proof of your compulsion for gabbing and flooding. Why don't you just call your mum?
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Oct 29, 2011
blakut saysL
Yes Pirouette, but it's getting the US ready, not the world... for you see, you've forgot to include the other 6 billion people of this planet in your little conspiracy theory :))


sorry, I have NO conspiracy theory . .I thought I made myself clear on that.
The other 6 billion are not my concern. , ,they will find their own solutions.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (4) Oct 29, 2011
Okok. I suggest David icke for an interesting perspective on the aliens who control us. He's a very popular and personable guy who does some excellent research but then ties it all to delusions of reptilian overlords. How sad.

Is this Planned disinformation meant to demean the whole conspiracy movement, or an honest effort by a deluded nutter?

Whatever.
http://www.davidicke.com/
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 29, 2011
Newbeak. . .I agree with you totally. I've been thinking of what we and our scientists can learn from the off=worlders, when they choose to reveal themselves to us. For now, the sightings are hit or miss, but they have been tracked on radar. My guess is that they have a device for cloaking their spacecraft so we cannot see them, and they recharge with electromagnetic storms and possibly gamma rays. If we could find out how they have harnessed those, maybe we could do it also.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Oct 29, 2011
Ghost says:
@piro
Fifty pounds of words is only proof of your compulsion for gabbing and flooding. Why don't you just call your mum?


Ghost, my mum is dead and buried this year. . .and would you prefer that I use only one or two syllables?

Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (5) Oct 29, 2011
Sadly, his mum was taken by aliens and now lives on Mars.

And I'm just glad to say that this whole thing didn't get too far off track!
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Oct 29, 2011
Shame on you, Nerdyguyl . . . .making fun of my mum.
Apparently, you still haven't gotten over Ethelred besting you in the other thread because you couldn't take a joke. So now you are anxious to use ME as your victim. Do your children know what a jerk their dad is? Perhaps you're not even their father. Have you done a DNA on them yet?
Cynical1
1 / 5 (4) Oct 29, 2011
Wow, Pir.
I think that may have been a little off topic. And certainly , a little more than of personal nature. I hope it was just an attempt at humor.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2011
Cynical1. . .I have no regrets for what I said. Attacking one's parent is a violation of the unofficial code of decency, and that requires a retort in kind. I'm sure you understand. I regard an attack on my parent as of a personal nature. Just because he mentioned Mars does not excuse bad manners.
Cynical1
1.7 / 5 (6) Oct 29, 2011
Pir,
May I suggest.. you may have an unresolved issue or 2 in connection with your mum.
Her energy is still with us and can still interact with us.
Take a little quiet meditation time and TALK to her. I think you'll find it quite helpful...

It worked for me...
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 30, 2011
Cynical1. . .thanks for the Transcendental Meditation advice, but I use that method only for developing my skills at concentration. I have no use for it within a framework of religion. That's basically why I enjoy physorg. It helps alleviate emotion and replaces it with scientific thought.
That's not to say that science is the answer to everything, and it certainly doesn't provide all the answers to many, but it's good to know that many of the world's problems are being worked on and someday the answers might come easier. How hard is it to deal with the death of one's child, or one's parent? Age-old problem with very limited solutions. One of my sister inlaw's son also died at 34. Type 1 Diabetes. I couldn't even call her up to give condolences. Didn't know what to say. I couldn't deal with that kind of death. So young and full of hope. My mum was elderly, but still it was hard to see her go. I'm glad you understand my situation, as I understand yours. Thanks for your fellowship.
Cynical1
1 / 5 (5) Oct 30, 2011
Anytime.
However I didn't tell you her energy was still here in a religious sense. I believe it REALLY is.
So, either the voices in my head are me going crazy or it is a reflection of natural sensitivity to REAL energies...:-)
roboferret
5 / 5 (2) Oct 30, 2011

So, either the voices in my head are me going crazy or it is a reflection of natural sensitivity to REAL energies...:-)

Which is more likely? The former, absent evidence. You should seek help if you are really having voices in your head
And Pirouette, your "proof" is extremely inadequate.
People believe any crap they want to believe. The difference between happy thoughts and fact is compelling evidence followed up by rigorous investigation. All else is woo.
Skultch
not rated yet Oct 30, 2011
competent witnesses


There is no such thing. Seriously, do a little research on what modern legal systems and psychological research has to say on that. We have not evolved to correctly observe complex visual stimulus NOR have we evolved to recall those experiences accurately. We simply are not capable. None of us.

Piro, if you truly want to learn from science, start with the well established limitations of even /healthy/ brains. Then explore how your brain might not even be that optimal. You have to know yourself before you can know anything else.

I'm still waiting on the "proof" you said you had, and I asked for earlier in this thread.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 30, 2011
@roboferret
Which "proof" are you talking about? I have proof of a lot of things. I have proof of my existence, I have proof in what you just said that you are obtuse and are attempting to put the kibosh on possibilities of alien life for which this thread is designed for discussion. I have proof that you, and possibly others will attempt to discount my own experience with E.T. contact simply because it was not YOU who experienced it. Therefore you regard MY experience as something that never happened.
I did not have a camera at the time of my sighting to back up my claim, otherwise you and others would have the pictures as proof. I was not expecting to see an E.T. spacecraft in the sky on that day, so I was unprepared for it. However, I DID report my experience to MUFON and they probably still have my report in their files. How does one "investigate" a sighting when one is in a car and the spacecraft is in the air? It is still very clear in my memory and I am proud of my experience.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Oct 30, 2011
@Skultch
Had you bothered to scroll up you would have seen the link. Therefore, I ASSUME that you were not interested in my earlier posts on this thread, and missed it entirely. I should not have to repeat myself.

Pirouette
1.7 / 5 (6) Oct 30, 2011
@Cynical1
There could be a number of reasons for hearing voices. But please take good advice and have yourself checked out physically and neurally as hearing voices when no one is there could be a sign of a serious condition. It's not something to fool around with. Sometimes, past memories are floating around in our brains which manifest themselves as voices. And it could be a simple desire to see and hear one's loved one again.
Religious people might say that there's a spiritual cause to it, but don't take that as fact.
Get yourself checked out first, then if all is well, talk to your pastor or priest. They will most likely tell you that it may be something evil, and to ignore it.
Cynical1
1.8 / 5 (5) Oct 30, 2011
Pir. Was attempt at humour. Not going crazy. If you notice, I did put a smiley face at the end of that statement, indicating so.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 30, 2011
Oh ok, Cynical1. . . .glad to see that you are fine, after all. I was worried there for a bit. Remembering the news article some time ago about the woman who put her baby in a hot oven and cooked and ate him because she heard voices telling her to do it. It's really not something to joke about. . .hearing voices.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 30, 2011
BTW. . .we now know that a supernova can encompass all planets, moons, planetoids, etc., within its disc and far beyond. It may not be our concern for now, but think of all those worlds that were burnt up by a massive explosion of their star. Those worlds may have had intelligent life evolving on them, who had no chance to evolve enough to the point of escaping off their world to colonize other worlds. Some may have been like us, or their DNA based on another element other than Carbon. Maybe Silicon or something else.
OR perhaps some aliens from these other worlds DID manage to get off their own world and are searching for adequate and appropriate worlds to colonize or to have temporary shelter.
It's something to think about. I recently saw a movie called "District 9" which involved that type of scenario. How would WE as a species TREAT a species from another world if they came here?
Pirouette
1.8 / 5 (5) Oct 30, 2011
Answer: Judging by the way we treat one another, we would treat THEM like $hit.
Cynical1
1 / 5 (4) Oct 30, 2011
Didn't hear the microwave story. Did see the movie.
Bigger question is - why, with all their advanced tech - did they LET us treat them like sh$t?
Answer - cuz it's a movie...
Thex1138
2 / 5 (1) Oct 30, 2011
We humans are asking the wrong questions.
There is no doubt there is other intelligent life on other planets, star systems in our galaxy and beyond. SETI is looking for, and will only find background noise. The radio emissions from stars and galaxies at these distances will muffle out the origins of radio emissions.
If a society can travel between stars and galaxies, they would first send a probe.. we do! Second... A society that can travel between stars would want a communications method that is faster than they travel, of course... one that we would probably not know to look for.
Thex1138
1 / 5 (1) Oct 30, 2011
technology of scales... We humans have portable scanners for infrared, x-rays, sonar, laser light point-clouds, radar to research both here and on other worlds like mars... in 100 years no doubt there will be newer tech that can see even more detail... think about how dolphins and whales use sonar to see your entire body under water... or sharks can smell your blood, or 'hear' the panic splash from swimmers up to a mile or more away...
So high tech interstellar society would easily be able to achieve these feats and more... and with faculties much faster than we can perceive. We're not that fast, we need computers to tell us the stuff that sensors and scanners find out...
Take your mobile phone to a farmer, start flicking through your sms or email at your normal pace, he wont be able to keep up...
We are asking the wrong questions with SETI.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 30, 2011
Didn't hear the microwave story. Did see the movie.
Bigger question is - why, with all their advanced tech - did they LET us treat them like sh$t?
Answer - cuz it's a movie...

The script called for it. Didn't that movie win an oscar?
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Oct 31, 2011
""We are asking the wrong questions with SETI.""

More like, we are using the wrong form of communication. Radio is too slow. I think photon plinkers shot out of some type of "cannon" at the speed of well, um, photons would have been better, and some kind of "message" could be created, such as dots and dashes, or in math language as in IO, and, with the exception of momentary slowdowns of the photons to account for gravitational lensing, the photons might cross into another star system pretty quickly. The "cannon" could be moveable so that photons could shoot out in several directions. Just a pipe dream of mine, I guess. (sigh)
Thex1138
1 / 5 (1) Oct 31, 2011
Photon plinkers??? Dots and dashes.... Are we talking high tech or something clowns juggle?

Think high tech dude.... Think quantum entanglement.... Assuming the effect is persistent over long periods, which a lot of researcher are starting to believe. Would enable, according to a lot of the researchers testing the quantum effect, would enable instant communications over 'any' distance.
Entangling paired molecules and injecting them into a quantum computer which controls a probe or other vehicle and sending it on its journey.
There would be no carrier wave aside from the source and destination quantum effects 'working' in parallel, the source and destination sending and receiving information instantly.
Thex1138
1 / 5 (1) Oct 31, 2011
Answer: Judging by the way we treat one another, we would treat THEM like $hit.


You think a society able to freely travel through interstellar space would tolerate a bunch of hobbits on a blue ball of water treating them with disrespect... They could probably harvest hydrogen fuel directly from any star...
roboferret
5 / 5 (3) Oct 31, 2011
@roboferret
Which "proof" are you talking about?

I'm not sure you understand what proof is. It is sufficient evidence to regard something as true, beyond reasonable doubt. Your story, whether it happened or not, falls short of proof. To prove your story, or a least make a good case you would need to:
Produce evidence of your encounter with the vehicle.
Demonstrate that it was a spacecraft (this seems to be an assumption on your part)
Demonstrate that the vehicle was extraterrestrial (another assumption)

I'm not being obtuse, I'm afraid scepticism is the default position in science. I'm optimistic on the probability of alien life, however it's an enormous leap to conclude they are here harassing motorists and practising proctology on rednecks. I don't mean any offence, or to belittle your personal experience, but that isn't how science works. I recommend "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan as a good intro to rationality and evidence based thinking.
Nerdyguy
2 / 5 (4) Oct 31, 2011
Shame on you, Nerdyguyl . . . .making fun of my mum.
Apparently, you still haven't gotten over Ethelred besting you in the other thread because you couldn't take a joke. So now you are anxious to use ME as your victim. Do your children know what a jerk their dad is? Perhaps you're not even their father. Have you done a DNA on them yet?


LOL. Yeah, I'm just all worked up about the trolls on a science website. Geez, get a life Pirouette. Though in fairness to your mother, it's true that I should have taken a poke at your directly. It's probably not her fault directly that you turned out this way. Toodles.
jibbles
not rated yet Oct 31, 2011
The normal radio 'pollution' of a society will not only likely be rather quiet and rather short lived


the initial 'noise' of our analog signals has already subsided to a digital 'whisper'
nickelsworth
1 / 5 (2) Oct 31, 2011
Would it be correct to say that perhaps the greatest transceiver in our solar system already exists? The radio- frequency spectrum of this transceiver is very minute when compared to its total bandwidth. It has been broadcasting since before the Earth was formed. Whatever entity that has the ability to transmit must also have the ability to receive. The understanding of our own Sun is still in the prenatal stage. Unfortunately, so are may of the comments.
Nerdyguy
1 / 5 (3) Oct 31, 2011
Would it be correct to say that perhaps the greatest transceiver in our solar system already exists? The radio- frequency spectrum of this transceiver is very minute when compared to its total bandwidth. It has been broadcasting since before the Earth was formed. Whatever entity that has the ability to transmit must also have the ability to receive. The understanding of our own Sun is still in the prenatal stage. Unfortunately, so are may of the comments.


Do you have a rationale for the statement that every entity that "has the ability to transmit must also have the ability to receive"? Because I can think of several cases off the top of my head where that's not the case. Otherwise, I agree with everything you said though.
Cynical1
1 / 5 (4) Oct 31, 2011
You could say - Stars are a life form. And we need to learn the language of the Stars. And then we can communicate with other stars and any "intelligent" life that have also learned the same trick...
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 31, 2011
Roboferret says:
""I'm not sure you understand what proof is. It is sufficient evidence to regard something as true, beyond reasonable doubt. Your story, whether it happened or not, falls short of proof. To prove your story, or a least make a good case you would need to:
Produce evidence of your encounter with the vehicle.
Demonstrate that it was a spacecraft (this seems to be an assumption on your part)
Demonstrate that the vehicle was extraterrestrial (another assumption) ""

I have already explained in my earlier post which you seem to have either not read, or did not absorb the meaning of my not being prepared with a camera for my E.T. contact. Kindly scroll up and read it before making idiotic statements in your rush to dismiss my experience which you would prefer falls in line with your own pathetic cynicism.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Oct 31, 2011
To be fair, I TOO, was a skeptic most of my life about extraterrestrial life and spacecraft, and I thought all the stories of sightings and abductions were just a way of silly people getting attention in their narrow little lives. I didn't even care for sci-fi books and movies because I felt they were a waste of time. But since my OWN experience I've realized that there is more to this Universe than we suspect is possible. And with each scientific discovery, I am more and more of the belief that life has been seeded across the Universe wherever there are optimum conditions for life to generate.
Now we know as scientific fact, that stars spew out the elements necessary for life and those elements are carried to many places where conditions are ripe for generating life.
Chronic skepticism is what I was filled with before Y2K, but not anymore. I do wish I had that camera with me, though. It would have made things a lot easier.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (7) Oct 31, 2011
Answer: Judging by the way we treat one another, we would treat THEM like $hit.


You think a society able to freely travel through interstellar space would tolerate a bunch of hobbits on a blue ball of water treating them with disrespect... They could probably harvest hydrogen fuel directly from any star...


@Thex. . . .I understand your meaning, and I agree with you. The reference to aliens living here and our treatment of them was only about a MOVIE. That's all.
True, REAL E.T. spacecraft pilots and scientists must understand by now that humans are a mostly violent and untrustworthy species, which is why they haven't landed and greeted us and we them. I believe that they are here to OBSERVE and EVALUATE US. NOT to make friends. In our present state of evolution, they would be fools to interact with us unless they are interacting with a select few, who are committed to not reveal that interaction.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Oct 31, 2011
Nickelsworth says:
Would it be correct to say that perhaps the greatest transceiver in our solar system already exists? The radio- frequency spectrum of this transceiver is very minute when compared to its total bandwidth. It has been broadcasting since before the Earth was formed. Whatever entity that has the ability to transmit must also have the ability to receive. The understanding of our own Sun is still in the prenatal stage. Unfortunately, so are may of the comments.


Perhaps you're also referring to the "Birkeland Current"? I'm not too well informed on that yet, but will read more. In one of the threads, I proposed my own theory that stars could be similar to the neurons in a human brain, and that the 'firing synapses' could be likened to a form of communication using the stars to 'transmit' messages'. Of course it was so outlandish that nobody picked up on it. But, if stars did transmit communication, then it MIGHT be possible that we live with a giant brain
Pirouette
1 / 5 (6) Oct 31, 2011
oooops. . .I meant to say WITHIN a giant brain. OR a giant computer.
I agree that stars would send and receive in order to conduct the messages to and from, similar to messages transmitted in a brain. I doubt that this kind of hypothesis has been worked on, but it would be interesting.
An alien race could communicate over very long distances in very little time using that kind of method, if it were possible. WE just don't have the technology to detect it if it was happening.
Cynical1
1 / 5 (4) Oct 31, 2011
All about perception and relativity.
If you were to bring down to our time-scale the length of time it takes light n radiation n gravitation n whatever that passes between stars and their actual "life"span, it would probly be a LOT faster than posting on a website...
Maybe about the same time it would take to have an actual conversation...
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 31, 2011
. . . .or a THOUGHT, but without any form of cognition. Just the message required for transmission. Think of all the possible applications.
Cynical1
1 / 5 (4) Oct 31, 2011
"light n radiation n gravitation n whatever" being the communication meedium of that conversation...
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 31, 2011
Just wondering. . .if there could be any similarity whatsoever of the Cosmos to the inside of a Brain and stars are Neurons transmitting messages between each other, could a massive star that became a supernova and then a Black Hole be the equivalent of a CANCER CELL within the cosmic brain? It consumes everything in its path and grows larger; and when it merges with another Black Hole, the new BH can be kicked out of its orbit and leave its galaxy quickly (metastasize). It can even travel to another galaxy and consume everything there. Then, when all of the BH's merge together, the Universe ends (the brain dies.)
Cynical1
1 / 5 (4) Oct 31, 2011
One giant BLack Hole.... Cool!
On that note - time to end this thread...:-)
Pirouette
1 / 5 (5) Oct 31, 2011
I thought that since the Universe is organic as well as inorganic, along with your light, radiation and gravitational forces, all these ingredients combined could be the building blocks of a cosmic brain. Possibly a computer also. Mainly because on a cosmic scale, we cannot see it as such due to our minuscule existence. . . .but it's possible that, IF this is indeed the case, our alien brothers may have figured this out already.
Pirouette
1 / 5 (4) Nov 01, 2011
Cynical1 says:
One giant BLack Hole.... Cool!
On that note - time to end this thread...:-)


I agree, unless someone else can make a lucid comment that is germane to the topic of communication with aliens. My above comments on Black Holes were admittedly off topic and I apologize for it. It was NOT meant to push the idea as fact, but simply a hypothesis, only one of many. Apparently, my comments were not welcome. I will see if admin. can remove MY comments from this thread.

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