Pics of Greenland glacier melt shocks expert

Sep 06, 2011 By Sunanda Creagh
Aerial oblique view of the Petermann glacier front on 5 August, 2009 Jason Box Byrd Polar Research Center. Credit: Ohio State University.

Breathtaking before-and-after pictures showing how fast a Greenland ice sheet has melted in just two years have shocked a climate change expert familiar with the glacier.

Aerial oblique view of the Petermann glacier front on 24 July, 2011 Alun Hubbard of Aberystwyth University, Wales.

The melting of glaciers is seen as a yardstick by which the warming of the planet is measured. experts have warned that sea-level rises caused as the planet warms and the glaciers melt could devastate coastal and island communities.

A British who has been studying the in north-west Greenland, which is over 300km long and makes up 6% of the , described pictures showing how fast it had melted as “gob-smacking.”

Oblique view of the Petermann glacier front on 24 July, 2009 Jason Box Byrd Polar Research Center, Ohio State University

Oblique view of the Petermann fjord, former location of the Petermann glacier front on 24 July, 2011 Alun Hubbard of Aberystwyth University, Wales

“Although I knew what to expect in terms of ice loss from satellite imagery, I was still completely unprepared for the gob-smacking scale of the breakup, which rendered me speechless,” said Dr. Alun Hubbard from the Institute of Geography and Earth Sciences at Aberystwyth University said in a statement released by the Welsh university.

Dr. Hubbard visited the site in July 2009 and again in July this year to observe the change.

“It was incredible to see. This glacier is huge, 20km wide and over 600m thick and hemmed in by sheer cliffs that rise to 1000m on either side. It’s like looking into the Grand Canyon full of ice and coming back two years later to find it’s full of water.”

Oblique view of the Petermann glacier front on 24 July, 2009 Jason Box Byrd Polar Research Center, Ohio State University

Oblique view of the Petermann fjord, former location of the Petermann glacier front on 24 July, 2011 Alun Hubbard of Aberystwyth University, Wales

“What the breakup means in terms of inland ice acceleration and draw-down of the remains to be seen, but will be revealed by the GPS data recovered, which we are now processing at Aberystwyth,” he said.


This story is published courtesy of the The Conversation (under Creative Commons-Attribution/No derivatives).

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User comments : 29

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omatumr
Sep 06, 2011
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.2 / 5 (19) Sep 06, 2011
Absolutely. Those glaciers are melting because of Neutron/Neutron repulsion.

"When climate change "experts" recover from shock, may I suggest that they take a few minutes to read about the nuclear forces" - OmaTard
omatumr
1.2 / 5 (19) Sep 06, 2011
Climate change has occurred, and will continue to occur, because that is the natural direction of the forces that control this area - the Sun, the Earth, and our very lives [0-9].

It is time to face reality and abandon unscientific dogma that divides us ! [Obama yields on smog rule in face of GOP demands]

www.physorg.com/n...rds.html

1. www.omatumr.com/a...enon.pdf
2. www.omatumr.com/a...nces.pdf
3. www.omatumr.com/lpsc.prn.pdf
4. www.omatumr.com/a...tnuc.pdf
5. www.springerlink....6685079/
6. http://arxiv.org/.../0501441
7. http://arxiv.org/pdf/0905.0704
8. http://journalofc...102.html
9. http://arxiv.org/...2.1499v1
0. http://dl.dropbox...5079.pdf
omatumr
1.4 / 5 (19) Sep 06, 2011
Absolutely. Those glaciers are melting because of Neutron/Neutron repulsion.

"When climate change "experts" recover from shock, may I suggest that they take a few minutes to read about the nuclear forces" - OmaTard


Your ignorance in no way alters reality. Grow up!
Vendicar_Decarian
3.3 / 5 (13) Sep 06, 2011
Neutron Neutron repulsion is the origin of all of the sun's neutron star radiation.

And has been since the sun went supernova and created the earth.
omatumr
Sep 06, 2011
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
jsdarkdestruction
4.5 / 5 (8) Sep 06, 2011
Absolutely. Those glaciers are melting because of Neutron/Neutron repulsion.

"When climate change "experts" recover from shock, may I suggest that they take a few minutes to read about the nuclear forces" - OmaTard


Your ignorance in no way alters reality. Grow up!

you should take your own advice.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (9) Sep 06, 2011
If only people didn't laugh when you claim the sun is made mostly of iron, or a neutrons, that magically repel for no apparent reason and create cosmic rays that emanate from the core of the sun and speed through 400,000 miles of plasma unhindered to strike the earth uniformly from all directions.

"The public is increasingly aware that AGW is absolute bunkum, rot, BS!" - OmaTard
Canman
4.4 / 5 (9) Sep 06, 2011
Let's say that Dr. Manual (omatumr) is correct about the nature of the sun. In no way does the theory of neutron repulsion, iron core, supernova origin, etc ... logically exclude anthropogenic global warming. He could be totally correct, and AGW could still be completely correct too!

But still, if the theory were so groundbreaking, why is he pushing it on a forum like physorg, and not in Physical Review Letters or Science?
omatumr
1.4 / 5 (10) Sep 06, 2011
If only people didn't laugh . . .


Like clowns at a rodeo that divert attention away from anything serious, like an injured cowboy.

This quote from the abstract of a paper:

"Earth is connected gravitationally, magnetically and electrically to its heat source a neutron star that is obscured from view by waste products in the photosphere. Neutron repulsion is like the hot filament in an incandescent light bulb. Excited neutrons are emitted from the solar core and decay into hydrogen that glows in the photosphere like a frosted light bulb. Neutron repulsion was recognized in nuclear rest mass data in 2000 as the overlooked source of energy, the keystone of an arch that locked together puzzling space-age observations"

["Neutron Repulsion", The APEIRON Journal, in press (2011)] http://arxiv.org/...2.1499v1

May bring attention back to the serious charge that observations were ignored for 40 yrs to promote the illusion that the Sun has no influence on climate change.
jsa09
4.6 / 5 (11) Sep 06, 2011
I have nothing against different ideas - but I do have difficulty swallowing the idea that everyone that is in a position to know better has somehow joined into a giant conspiracy.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.7 / 5 (6) Sep 07, 2011
@isa

Proving that you have joined the ranks of the conspirators as well.

Did they threaten your life? Or did they offer to pay you with stolen government money?

Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (5) Sep 07, 2011
The Schizophrenia is quite obvious from the following quote...

"["Neutron Repulsion", The APEIRON Journal, in press (2011)] http://arxiv.org/...2.1499v1

May bring attention back to the serious charges..." - OmaTard

OmaTard .... Get back on your medication. You are going to hurt yourself.
intech
1 / 5 (2) Sep 07, 2011
Having scanned the internet for a few hours trying to research this topic I can across an interesting article by Tim Patterson a Quaternary geologist ( professor of Geology at Carleton University in 2004.
here is the link
http://www.ideasi...nge.html
There is a full PDF download from the site.
I am still working my way through it.
Mayor__Dooley
4.2 / 5 (5) Sep 07, 2011
Give it a rest Oliver, you are about as convincing as Criswell.
jsdarkdestruction
4 / 5 (4) Sep 07, 2011
Oliver has completely lost his mind i think. his arguments and rants are becoming more and more delusional. hopefully someone commits him to the nearest mental health facility or he realizes his deteriorating mental state and gives it up.
intech
1 / 5 (2) Sep 07, 2011
Sorry I couldnt find the PDF on the link above but I have the full report on this link

http://www.geocra...ange.pdf

I really thought that CO2 was the No1 Greenhouse gas and cause for changing the climate but after reading this report by Tim Patterson I seriously doubt it is.
very Interesting reading.
jamesrm
3 / 5 (2) Sep 07, 2011
"I really thought that CO2 was the No1 Greenhouse gas and cause for changing the climate but after reading this report by Tim Patterson I seriously doubt it is."

We that close to the dumbest comment I've read so far
jamesrm
5 / 5 (5) Sep 07, 2011
Jimi neutron-replusion Manuel mentioned here; hope this doesn't boost his ego :)
http://thingsbrea...h-curry/

lolwot comment
"Oliver K. Manuels comments are hilarious.

The subject could be about baked beans and you are guaranteed within the first few comments of the thread will be something like:

Thank you, thank you, Professor Curry, for another moment of truth about baked beans.

That reminds me of the time NASA at the behest of the world government fraudulently covered me in baked beans for daring to speak out about secret agreements made with Chinese leaders in the week that changed the world, new discoveries about the origin, composition and source of energy of the Earth-Sun system have been ignored, hidden or manipulated by the US National Academy of Sciences, the Royal Society, and the federal research agencies they control since 1972.

..."
be he crackpot or clown we should laugh at him and then pity
Truthforall
not rated yet Sep 07, 2011
How is Antarctic sea ice doing at the same time? Hope there is more data easily available.
This has to be taken into account in order to determin whether the melting in Greenland is the result of local weather/ ocean current or indeed global warming (AGW included).
omatumr
1.2 / 5 (6) Sep 07, 2011
In 1971 world leaders accepted a Bilderberg decision that Earths heat source is stable, "in equilibrium" [1].

It certainly is not!

Experimental data and observations on the Sun were hidden, ignored or distorted for the next four decades (1971-2011) [2].

Climate change continued, impervious to efforts to direct the force that powers the Sun, the Earth, and the evolution of life [3].

Our current dilemma: The integrity of science was compromised for society's benefit in 1971. Can the integrity of science be restored without damage to society in 2011?

With kind regards,
Oliver K. Manuel
Former NASA Principal
Investigator for Apollo

1. The Bilderberg model of the photosphere and low chromosphere, Solar Physics (1968) vol 3, 5-25
http://adsabs.har...oPh.3.5G

2. "Deep, historical roots of Climategate" (2011)
http://dl.dropbox...oots.pdf

3. Neutron repulsion, The APEIRON Journal (2011) in press
http://arxiv.org/...2.1499v1
intech
2.3 / 5 (3) Sep 07, 2011
@ Jamesrm

Sorry Jamesrm I guess the report was too technical for you to understand it, although it does have pretty pictures in it :)
A poorly educated person can criticize anyone but the real trick is having something to substantiate what comes out of your mouth.
Unfortunately this web site has become nothing more than a way for a number of people to vent their anger at people of science for their own failings at life.
I will leave posting comments and guess more may follow in due course which will leave the angry and inept to scorn each other.
GSwift7
2.3 / 5 (6) Sep 07, 2011
This breakup was predicted long ago, and it was way overdue. It's not because of global warming. It's part of the natural behavior of this glacier. The reason it has broken up so dramatically is because it was way overdue. The ice tounge was way bigger than it should have been because it has not calved as often as it should in recent decades. This is the area that shed an iceberg the size of Manhattan last Summer. The lead researcher from University of Deleware said all this last Summer.

http://www.udel.e...610.html

They said that there are two pinch points in the valley the glacier follows and that the glacier had unexpectedly failed to calve at either of those two pinch points for a long time, mainly because the ice was too thick to break. After the big iceberg came off last year, they have been watching for the rest of it to come off. They even predicted where the ice would fracture. The story above is obviously sensationalism.
GSwift7
2 / 5 (4) Sep 07, 2011
Dr Muenchow, one of or perhaps the top researcher on the Petermann glacier, from U of D, said that overall, the Petermann glacier is one of the few Greenland glaciers that is not changing in size to the best of our knowledge. They expect that it will now resume its normal pattern of growth and calving for the forseeable future. He also said that sea temperatures are of very little or perhaps no consequence in the case of the Petermann glacier. The tounge of the Petermann glacier sits in a very deep and isolated fjord with a narrow and shallow entrance. The currents, tides and temperatures inside the fjord are their own microclimate, and the majority of the water around the tounge comes from the glacier itself, so sea conditions are rarely a factor there.
jamesrm
5 / 5 (3) Sep 08, 2011
http://www.msnbc....eenland/
He said it was hard to judge whether the event occurred due to global warming because records on the sea water around the glacier have only been kept since 2003. The flow of sea water below the glaciers is one of the main causes of ice calvings off Greenland.

"Nobody can claim this was caused by global warming. On the other hand nobody can claim that it wasn't," Muenchow said.
_nigmatic10
1 / 5 (2) Sep 11, 2011
The double edge sword to any climate control can and will be when politics entangles itself and ultimately takes it over as custodians and guardians of "the peoples" interest. So continue on, by all means, and develop the required needs to CONTROL our climates. I'm sure the idea of being able to change a country into a desert or a lake will be most interesting at some point.
Nanobanano
2 / 5 (4) Sep 11, 2011
"Nobody can claim this was caused by global warming. On the other hand nobody can claim that it wasn't," Muenchow said.


That's putting the cart before the horse.

After all, the melting of ice is one of the two primary CAUSES of global warming, and not "just" a result of global warming.

The more ice melts the lower the albedo, and therefore the more ice will continue to melt.

In spite of our resurgeant La Nina pattern in the eastern pacific, the norther pacific, Arctic circle and Atlantic ocean are more than hot enough to make up for the low temps in the el nino area.

http://www.nhc.no...anom.gif

The Hudson Bay is averaging over 5 celsius above normal temperatures for the calendar week, and many other parts of the arctic are 5 or more celsius above normal. Consider also that the "normal" has been updated, with the previous ten years dropped from the average, reflecting only the last 30 years, 1981 to 2010, updated.
Nanobanano
1 / 5 (3) Sep 11, 2011
The loss of sea ice and land-locked glaciers doesn't simply effect albedo in summer.

http://igloo.atmo...;sy=2011

This is the winter/spring maximums for sea ice in 1980 vs 2011.

Notice we are missing an area of ice equal to perhaps a couple times the size of ALASKA all together: east of siberia, south of newfoundland, south of scandanavia, and between greenland,iceland, and scandanavia.

The comparison is useless for the land-based snowpack data, however, since it wasn't recorded back then.

However, the point is, this ice represents a PERMANENT change in average albedo of the planet, resulting in net radiant gains of up to 450 WATTS PER METER SQUARE during full daylight.

This is why the ice not only melts, but it stays melted, and melts worse and worse every cycle.

When you melt a chunk of ice that big, well, do some math at how big the change in net solar input is due to albedo changes...it's enormous.
omatumr
1 / 5 (4) Sep 11, 2011
Experimental measurements show:

1. Earth's climate has changed and is changing.
2. The Sun has evolved and is evolving.
3. Life has evolved and is evolving

We are partially protected from the Sun's unstable pulsar core by:

a.) A solar mantle of mostly Fe, O, Ni, Si, S, Mg and Ca
b.) A solar photosphere of waste products (H and He)
c.) Distance from the Sun

References:

1. "The demise of established dogmas formation of the Solar System", Nature 303 (1983) 286

http://tallbloke....1983.pdf

2. "Is the Universe expanding?", J. Cosmology 13, 4187-4190 (2011)

http://journalofc...102.html

3. "Origin and evolution of life", J. Modern Physics 2, 587-594 (2011)

http://dl.dropbox...5079.pdf

4. "Neutron repulsion", The APEIRON J., in press (2011)

http://arxiv.org/...2.1499v1

With kind regards,
Oliver K. Manuel
Formerly NASA Principal
Investigator for Apollo
Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (5) Sep 11, 2011
"The public is increasingly aware that AGW is absolute bunkum, rot, BS!" - OmaTard

"Astronomy will never advance until astronomers realize that they can't see stars." - OmaTard

Magnette
3 / 5 (2) Sep 12, 2011
Oliver seems to be on a roll this last week or so, he must be copying and pasting furiously to keep up with all of the threads he's polluted....and still no evidence for any of his ascertations except for his own conspiracy theories.

Oliver, pasting links to your own non-peer reviewed work is not evidence. Please post evidence from another source completely unrelated to you.

...and claiming conspiracy theories are holding back that evidence won't wash.

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