Religious Education is at a crossroads

Aug 05, 2011

Excluding Religious Education from the Baccalaureate in England risks unravelling years of progress in developing a subject rich in reasoning and discursive skills, say experts.

The conclusion was reached by Professor James Conroy at a recent conference to mark the end of the Religion & Society Programme, a UK Research Councils’ initiative which invested in the largest suite of research projects into religion in public life.

Prof Conroy noted that where Religious Education (RE) is given only a marginal place in the curriculum, teaching can be “dominated by somewhat crude comparisons, which misrepresent the ‘being-in-the-world’ nature of religious attachment”.

The study, conducted by the University of Glasgow, King’s College London and Queen’s University Belfast, involved in-depth observations and collaboration with teachers in 24 schools across the UK which self-identified as sites of good practice in RE.

Researchers concluded that RE offers students a positive experience, develops their discursive abilities and contributes to multicultural awareness, and is often led by highly committed and thoughtful teachers capable of navigating the complex territory of religious beliefs and attachments in contemporary society.

The researchers say the findings demonstrate that RE is at a crossroads: caught between a vision of Religious Studies as a rigorous academic discipline, concerned with exploring questions of meaning and value in the great religious and philosophical traditions; and an older vision of RE as satisfying a range of social and moral functions tangential to the study of religion.

The researchers claim RE is often overburdened with expectations laid upon the subject by politicians, educators, religious groups and schools, making up for shortfalls in citizenship education, community cohesion, sex education, collective worship and a range of other entailments.

Professor Conroy said: “While teachers in other subjects will, of course, wish to engage with questions of meaning and value – in literature or history for example – only Religious Education makes the exploration of questions of value intrinsic to the nature of the subject itself.”

In 2010, in a letter to his predecessor, Michael Gove MP, Secretary of State of Education for and Wales, cited RE alongside Citizenship and Personal, Social and Health Education as subjects to receive lower priority in the comprehensive spending review.

Pointing to the strengths of an academic model of RE, Dr. David Lundie, a co-investigator on the project said: The teacher points students not only to the limits of imagination, but to the limits of hope – opening possibilities for personal meaning-making on a level beyond the literal.”

While echoing the calls from faith leaders for the inclusion of RE in the English Baccalaureate, Prof Conroy and his research team also point to the continued confusion which surrounds their discourse, conflating the academic rigours of the subject with various social entailments around students’ social development, community cohesion, and the like.

Prof Conroy said: “Religiously literate young people are able to explore the ways in which religious and philosophical world views endow the material world with value and explanation.

“As educators, the urge to reduce education to a series of functional purposes needs to be called into question. The study of as a social practice is the one area in the curriculum where this happens by the very nature of the subject, which lends RE a distinctive character, both in state schools and in schools of a religious character.”

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Provided by University of Glasgow

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Bob_B
3 / 5 (8) Aug 05, 2011
unravelling years of progress in developing a subject rich in reasoning

Religion is reasonable? Tell that to the babies killed because someone forgot to kill a lamb and paint the doorway with blood! Or that when dead you get to have your own planet! That sounds reasonable, huh! Oh, and tell those kids abused by church members to be more reasonable and just lay back and take it.

cyberCMDR
3.7 / 5 (7) Aug 05, 2011
Religious reasoning has provided rigorous analyses such as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. This is religious indoctrination, where you can get comfortable with the prevailing logical fallacies of the dominant religion to the point you can defend them to others.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (19) Aug 05, 2011
Prof Conroy noted that where Religious Education (RE) is given only a marginal place in the curriculum, teaching can be dominated by somewhat crude comparisons, which misrepresent the being-in-the-world nature of religious attachment."
-Blah.
Excluding Religious Education from the Baccalaureate in England risks unravelling years of progress in developing a subject rich in reasoning
Bwahaaahaaaa!
and discursive skills, say experts.
Okok let me look it up here:

Discursive:
a : moving from topic to topic without order : rambling
b : proceeding coherently from topic to topic 

Hmmm. So 'discursive' means moving from topic to topic either reasonably or unreasonably... Bwahaaahaaaaa!!

-THIS is the kind of knots that Religionists seek to tie in childrens brains. Should they be allowed to do this??
Religiously literate young people are able to explore the ways in which religious and philosophical world views
Excuse me. Religionists AND all philosopher-types.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (16) Aug 05, 2011
Sorry cyber that was iPhone for 5/5
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (20) Aug 05, 2011
Let me just reiterate;
the being-in-the-world nature of religious attachment."
Let us deconstructify this. The religionist is using an esoteric philo phrase 1) to imply that a concept which few but educated types are familiar with can have some important bearing on religion being taught to children, 2) people who ARE familiar with the phrase must obviously agree on the importance of religion being taught in school, and 3) that the phrase actually has some sort of meaning to it, which it does not. Other than empty pretense that is.

People like philos and Religionists who subsist on empty pretense will tend to support the good Professors line of reasoning, whose Authority dwells in words like 'Baccalaureate'. STFU
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (20) Aug 05, 2011
I do think that religion should be addressed I schools however. It should be taught as a separate history subject, emphasizing the traits which most all religions share, these being 1) Exclusivity, 2) Emphasis on competitive reproduction, 3) their primary political nature, 4) the pre-existence of morality in human culture and religions appropriation (and adulteration) of it, 5) The archeological realities of religious claims, and 6) the dangers religions now pose, and have always posed, to science and social stability.

This would be a very useful course indeed.
Jimee
4 / 5 (4) Aug 05, 2011
Reasoning? Really? A Religion major? This would be a loss to the country, how? Moral and ethics central to what? How to believe a fantasy useful only to demonize the rest of humanity while feeling self righteous about doing so? Gee, what a loss to us all!
rwinners
2 / 5 (4) Aug 05, 2011
"Prof Conroy noted that where Religious Education (RE) is given only a marginal place in the curriculum, teaching can be dominated by somewhat crude comparisons, which misrepresent the being-in-the-world nature of religious attachment."

Huh?
Look, religion is a part of most (every?) society, and tolerated to some degree in each.
I support religious education to the point that 'religion' is explained and the various beliefs of each sect is explained... in a 2 hour class.
I'd bet a good sum that those who are inclined to a religious lifestyle are all ready well programmed in the thought dogma of one or another cult.
It would be a waste of time to spend valuable education time in trying to entice new adherents from this age group.
epsi00
3 / 5 (2) Aug 05, 2011
Religion has been a refuge for pedophiles for eons and it's not going to change. I don't think there is any room for teaching religion or its history or whatnot. It's absolutely useless to society. There are already too many bible schools or should we call them a self service for pedophiles.
tkjtkj
5 / 5 (1) Aug 06, 2011
All the points I would make have already been stated, above, except that I would support a Baccalauriat entitled: "The Anti-theticals of Religious Thought" or perhaps: "Comparative Religion: Which Have Caused More Harm".
Skepticus
2.6 / 5 (5) Aug 06, 2011
Of course we should continue to have religous education! The world's paganistic knowledge should be cleansed regularly, and who are more suited than the bearers of faith? We've done splendid jobs with the Alexandria Library, the Mayan Codex, and so many stupid heathen collections as well as their collectors for the last few thousand years, so why stop now? There is the Library of Congress, the National Archives, the humongous Google data servers...I am drooling at the prospects!
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (19) Aug 06, 2011
Religion has been a refuge for pedophiles for eons and it's not going to change. I don't think there is any room for teaching religion or its history or whatnot. It's absolutely useless to society. There are already too many bible schools or should we call them a self service for pedophiles.
Schools offer a unique environment for comparison of the various beliefs held by different students. It has been pointed out that when believers are allowed to mix the power of belief systems as a whole weaken. This is why ALL religions are exclusivist. All seek to prevent adherents from comparing their doctrines with others.

People begin to realize that others who share the same morals and devotion to family as they do, can have these qualities without worshipping the same god they do.

Children who are taught the realities of religionism vs the real world may not be as susceptible to authority figures who claim to speak for god. The earlier they learn this, the better I think.
maunas
1 / 5 (8) Aug 06, 2011
DICTION OF GOD

GOD = Almighty = divine = majesty = formidability = enervation = grimness = omen = frightening = dreadfulness = awfulness = fear = veneration = reverence = Worship = Prayer = concern = worry = trouble = upset = Disorder = haphazard = random = aberrant = variant = alteration = change = amelioration = purification = Sanctification = Blessing = consecration = Love = loyalty = devotion = = dedication = faith = Religion = organization = arrangement = regularity = ORDER = INVOLUTION = DEPRESSION = OPINION = BELIEFS = INTENTION = WILL =UNCONSCIOUSNESS = involuntariness = GRAVITY = Black hole = SINGULARITY = COSMIC EGG = Brahmanda = INSTANTANEOUSNESS = TIMELESSNESS = SPACELESSNESS = Invisible = indiscernible = insensible = senseless = unintelligent = stupid = foolish = preposterous = derisory = ridiculous = farcical = ludicrous = idiotic = absurd = nonsensical = Nonsense = odd = inharmonious = unacceptable = Impossible = impractical = Laputan = visionary = seer =
kochevnik
1 / 5 (5) Aug 07, 2011
Religion is bullshit recycling and mind control. It should be relegated to the latrine walls for contemplation.
maunas
1 / 5 (7) Aug 07, 2011
seer = oracle = perceive = realize = earn = acquire = develop = formulate = show = confirm = support = assistance = resource = asset = plus = attribute = assign = distribute = exist = be = particle = body = MASS = MEMORY = Truth = PERMANENCE = SURVIVAL = genuine = real = corporeal = material = limit = determine = influence = affect = effect = do = OCCURRENCE = Creation = MANIFESTATION = RELIGION = FORCE = RIGID = BLIND = certainty = INVOLUNTARY = FUNDAMENTAL = CONCEIVING = DOCTRINE = DOGMA = ATTRIBUTE = OSCILLATION = MAGNITUDE = DEGREE = BEHAVIOUR = ENERGY = MATTER = RITUAL = PROCESS = INDUCTION = FOCUS = BODY = PREDICTABILITY = PREDETERMINATION = BECOMING = EXISTENCE = COMMIT = PERFORM = GIVING = DEVOTE = TRUST = CONFESSION = TRANSFORMATION = CHANGE = REACTION = ACTION = LIBERATION = EMANCIPATION = INTERMINGLING = UNIFICATION = INTERCOURSE = CREATION = GLOBLIZATION = ONENESS = FUTURE = fix = set = obsession = compulsion = coercion = Terror = Force = Energy = WORK = MONEY =
maunas
1 / 5 (7) Aug 07, 2011
MONEY = (action = reaction) = (inflation = depression) = (implosion = explosion) = (violence = peace) = (wildness = tameness) = (unruliness = ruliness) = (unite = divide) = (add = subtract) = (construction = destruction) = (disobedience = obedience) = (goodness = badness) = (normality = abnormality) = (balance = imbalance) = (regularity = irregularity) = (Order = disorder) = (voluntary = involuntary) = (will = freewill) = (nonrandomness = randomness) = (Christ = Anti-Christ) draw = pull = attraction = fascinate = intrigue = captivate = charm = appeal = lawfulness = MOTIVATION = DISCIPLINE = Prayer = supplication = invocation = conjuration = magic trick = illusion = Occult = becloud = taint = cloud = swarm = teem = pour = give = sacrifice = worship = deception = deceit = fraud = dupery = falsity = untruth = lie = Misinformation = misleader = Misguidance = duplicity = falsity = misinform = misdirection = corruption = spoil = frustration = thwarting = hindrance = deterrence =
maunas
1 / 5 (7) Aug 07, 2011
deterrence = discouragement = warning = admonition = reprimand = caution = circumspection = prudence = discretion = voluntary = Volition = knowledge = noesis = cognition = arrangement = Order = establishment = organization = stay = fastening = fixing = controller = judging = verdict = belief = COGNITION = information = determination = INTELLECT = THOUGHT = ADDICTION = Mind = = logic = evidence = apparentness = manifestation = demonstration = establishment = show = defining = quantification = measure = evaluation = judge = estimate = forecast = prediction = prescience = prevision = prognostic = divination = vaticination = sibyl = oracle = Kabbalah = crypticness = mysteriousness = imperceptibility = unperceivability = undetectability = inconspicuousness = obscureness = dark = night = Erebus = Nyx = Hades = Hell = Satan = Devil = execration = curse = evil = Lucifer = Anti-Christ = Demon
maunas
1 / 5 (7) Aug 07, 2011
Demon = monster = anomaly = misfit = Jekyll and Hyde = aberrance = deviate = divergence = variance = alteration = Change = move = Motion = motility = propulsion = expulsion = explosion = INFLATION = OUTSIDE = ANABOLISM = DEVELOPMENT = ANIMATION = CHAOS = PROGRESSION = MOTION = ACCELERATION = CHANGE = SURVIVAL = LIFE = HEALTH = SOUL = DISPLACEMENT = ANTIGRAVITY = SPEED = increase = growth = UPBRINGING = evolution = process = work = act = behave = move = motivate = make = achieve = establish = give = sacrifice = impartation = Communication = information = communicate = think = believe = conceive = discover = joy = happiness = pleasure = beauty = feel = SENSATIONS = HATE =malevolence = malignity = RELIEF = SATIETY = CONTENTMENT = HAPPINESS = PAIN = SADNESS = sense = self = CONSCIOUSNESS = awareness = ATTENTION = indicate = TIME = condition = power = state = knowledge = FIXATION = STRUCTURE = FUNCTION = LOCATION = BECOMING = QUANTAS = AEIOU = AOEIOUM = OCCURRENCE = EXISTENCE =UNIVERSE =
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (21) Aug 07, 2011
People should not post here when drunk or high or otherwise impaired (stupified).
maunas
1 / 5 (4) Aug 07, 2011
UNIVERSE = function = part = separate = interval = SPACE = divide = disunite = break = burst = violence = CATABOLISM = AGING = COMA = DEATH = EXTINCTION = UPBRINGING = ANTISOUL = DEACCELERATION = DECONSCIOUSNESS = GUILT = resistance = stress = interrupt = disturb = upset = Disorder = MUTATION = RANDOM = ANTIMIND = Freewill = dust = junk = scrap = rubbish = hogwash = absurd = illusion
END OF DICTION OF GOD .
freethinking
1 / 5 (6) Aug 07, 2011
One of the main reasons the church in England, Germany has failed is because it was a state church. There should be no state churches.

I laugh when people who know nothing other that what they hear from progessives say that the christian church is about mind control. The Bible teaches that people aught to prove all things, to examine all things including themselves and their leaders and to compare our doctrines to others.

Wouldn't it be great if all people including Progressives and conservatives follow that example and question their leaders, their beliefs, and hold our leaders up to high standards?

Religion has been a refuge for pedophiles for eons, is an ignorant statment made by a fool. Pedophiles have used power for eons, which is why so many pedophiles are now public school teachers. But why examine the facts if you are a progressive?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (16) Aug 07, 2011
There should be no state churches.
Uh let me fix this for you.
There should be no churches.
Ah thats better.
freethinking
1 / 5 (6) Aug 07, 2011
Progressives like Stalin and Mao have tried to outlaw churches and couldn't wipe them out. I do believe there is a time coming shortly that being a christian will be a capital offense world wide, but even during this time there will be christians.
kochevnik
1 / 5 (6) Aug 07, 2011
I laugh when people who know nothing other that what they hear from progessives say that the christian church is about mind control. The Bible teaches that people aught to prove all things, to examine all things including themselves and their leaders and to compare our doctrines to others


The elite gather at Bohemian Grove to pay accolades to their god Molek, the Canaanite god of child molekstation. This is the true god of the Vatican and christianity, which began as a child molekstation/sacrifice cult built over a Roman necropolis. Molekstatied children are the true currency of the elite, as the child molekstatior is trivially blackmailed and his master's moll. "Moll" was used at least from the 13th Century as a shortened version of the name of Moloch and actions undertaken in the name of Moloch, or "Molls". Kids are molekstatied and snuffed on video to make useful molls and launch careers.
freethinking
1 / 5 (5) Aug 07, 2011
Otto, I agreed with you about not being stoned, too bad Kochevnik doesn't agree with you on that point.

Otto, isn't it correct to say if you don't have (different) churches (religion) you cant have freedom?

Isn't it true, by you advocating the elimination of churches (religions) you are advocating for a dictatorial police mind control state?

The reason is, the only way to have lack of churches (religion) IS by force. This same force WILL make you believe in ONE way (the lack of religion).

Otto, I would appreciate a serious answer from you on those two questions, as I never thought of it that way before, never heard that before, and am trying to see if that logic holds true.
TheRedComet
1 / 5 (2) Aug 07, 2011
Progressives like Stalin and Mao have tried to outlaw churches and couldn't wipe them out. I do believe there is a time coming shortly that being a christian will be a capital offense world wide, but even during this time there will be christians.

Self-fulfilling prophecy
kochevnik
1.7 / 5 (6) Aug 07, 2011
Progressives like Stalin and Mao have tried to outlaw churches and couldn't wipe them out. I do believe there is a time coming shortly that being a christian will be a capital offense world wide, but even during this time there will be christians.


This is the most flamboyant fundie lie. Let's try some history. There was nothing liberal about communism. The liberal utopia was a carrot to implement extreme rightwing programs. Moreover Pol Pott, Stalin, Mao and Castro had Jesuit Catholic educations. Hitler was raised catholic and Himler was a catholic priest. The objective was to destroy Orthodox Christianity and Buddhism, clearing the way to make the countries catholic.
kochevnik
1 / 5 (5) Aug 07, 2011
Isn't it true, by you advocating the elimination of churches (religions) you are advocating for a dictatorial police mind control state?


Churches should be taxed like any major multinational corporation. The Roman Catholic church hoards up to half the world's gold, in conjunction with their Rothschild bankers. The churches hoard enough wealth to buy every person on Earth a $300,000 house. Even catholics concur the wealth should be redistributed, as the Vatican jesuits invented communism in Paraguay. Taxation and wealth redistribution is simply consistent with catholic doctrine.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 08, 2011
Progressives like Stalin and Mao have tried to outlaw churches and couldn't wipe them out.
Prohibition and the war on drugs have had similar effects.
Otto, isn't it correct to say if you don't have (different) churches (religion) you cant have freedom?
I don't think that being enraptured by delusion is freedom. It degrades your ability to think for yourself and thus more dependent on those who wish to think for you.
Isn't it true, by you advocating the elimination of churches (religions) you are advocating for a dictatorial police mind control state?
Your mindless use of catch phrases is an indication of this. Advocating an end to bigotry, fascism, and addiction also fits your mindless profile.

Religions are ALL of these, in their most insidious form, and more. It is the worst disease.

I know, every one but yours which is the only true one which god loves and if everyone on earth believed exactly the same way he would return immediately blahblah. WHAT BULLSHIT.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (13) Aug 08, 2011
Churches should be taxed like any major multinational corporation.
I absolutely agree with this. Kochevnik provides some novel info here but also parrots the deceprion that 'everybody at the top is evil' which explains little.

I think that Those at the Top are desperate to save the world from the ravages of humanity and thus are left with no choice but to do extremely brutal things; and have been doing these things for a very long time, as described in your book.

It is far better to have people think Them evil than to ever suspect the Truth.

Deception is Their forté.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 08, 2011
They are Masters of Deception. They are our Shepherds but in reality they herd cats not sheep. Their Intent is to turn cats into sheep. In the meantime They know that cats will follow a nice smelly fish anywhere.

Your religions are sturgeons. Any cats which choose to hunt for themselves are culled. Pretty soon you don't even need a fish as the cats have been trained to follow the Fisherman.

This is called Domestication. Shepherds have been skilled in it for millennia.

And your religions still smell.

"Come, follow me and I will make you Fishers of men." -the godman.
freethinking
1 / 5 (5) Aug 08, 2011
Otto, no serious response. Sad.

Koch, just repeating the same revisionist lies. so Koch, what do Communists and progressives differ on?

TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (13) Aug 08, 2011
Otto, no serious response.
Well I didnt really expect one. But read what I said again and understand that it is all reasonable.

THIS is sad.
http://www.bbc.co...12101748

Your own selfish beliefs make you complicit in all of this.

For this all to end, religion must END.

TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 08, 2011
Lost the guts of that last post...

No. THIS is sad. 
http://www.bbc.co...12101748

And this.
http://www.youtub...a_player

And THIS. 
http://www.csmoni...-America

And this.
http://en.wikiped...nce_Army

And this. 
http://en.wikiped...therhood

Your selfish beliefs make you complicit in all of this.  

For this all to end, religion must END. 
freethinking
1 / 5 (6) Aug 09, 2011
Otto, do you want me to list the evil of progressives and atheists? All you shown in that there is evil in the world. I know that, the bible describes that.

Matthew 5:44
Luke 6:27
Luke 6:35
2 Timmothy 3

So Otto, what have you done to prevent violence? Have you forgiven someone lately? Have you helped and enemy lately? Have you helped someone?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.5 / 5 (11) Aug 09, 2011
Otto...the bible describes that.
The greatest evil, according to your book, is the infidel. 'No other gods before me.' This is the mechanism of religious evil.

But that was not the first commandment was it? The first was 'Be fruitful and multiply. Fill up the earth.' That is the SOURCE of religious evil. For it ensures that religious communities will grow until they come into conflict with other religious communities who in their minds are infidells and who are keeping them from filling up the world with the only people god truly loves.

Every idiot religionist the world over believes this in his heart. So we can see why religion is the source of evil in the world. For without gods edict to remain separate or lose your soul, the people could finally begin to believe that they were all part of one huge tribe, the tribe of humanity.

Religions will never let that happen. It can never happen until you godders ALL give up your selfish belief in a god who is not there.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (13) Aug 09, 2011
So Otto, what have you done to prevent violence? Have you forgiven someone lately? Have you helped and enemy lately? Have you helped someone?
Your godman teaches you how to become good martyrs. This passive aggressive stance makes you think you're better than the others (YES it does) But it's not what religions make you BELIEVE, that is important; it is what they make you DO, that is important.

Yours CAN and WILL make you kill and die on cue if necessary, just like the others. In the meantime it will make you reject reason, as you yourself like to demonstrate so often. And it makes all the others possible, including all the evil that they do also in gods name. in YOUR name, believer.
Fernstead
2.3 / 5 (3) Aug 09, 2011
If you view the Roman Catholic church, which is really just a big atheist factory, as representative of all religion, then yes, much stupidity and evil is produced by religion. But there is much more to religion and particularly to being educated about religions, and that means all categories of religions, and how their existence influences the way people live, and even why we all continue to suck air when there is no obvious reason to do so.
maunas
1 / 5 (3) Aug 10, 2011
'Attribute'of existence' is the only essential and permanent religion for all entities to exist. All religions acted by creating prejudiced orders for leading life and understanding the cosmos. Prejudices were necessary to form an operating system for the mind which sieved out order from an infinite and fatally random universe. Irrespective of the type of prejudices whether idolatry or revealed books or any other, benefits for the faithful were equal. The cavemen prejudicingly drew pictures of a successful hunt on selected spots of cave walls and special stones inside deep, dark, narrow crevices of difficult to reach caves. This gave them confidence, concentration, motivation and discipline for big dangerous hunts 80 millennia ago.Man is the sole God at this point of time and space because no one has travelled from the future or past or any other part of the universe to guide or rule us.
freethinking
1.6 / 5 (7) Aug 10, 2011
How can we expect reason from a progressive when they don't understand any religion, including (using the common term) the simplest religion which is Christianity?

The Greatest Commandment
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?
Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

The truth shall set you free, progressivism enslaves. Only progressives can be scared of someone who follows the commandment love thy neighbor as yourself. Wouln't the world be a better place if the rioting progressives in england (and all people for that matter) followed just this one commandment?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 10, 2011
How can we expect reason from a progressive when they don't understand any religion, including (using the common term) the simplest religion which is Christianity?
Hahaha

"Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system..."

Hahahahaaa
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (13) Aug 10, 2011
Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God... Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
Except that... all your neighbors who do not accept the godman are evildoers and threaten you and your family...

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world THROUGH HIM. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe STANDS CONDEMNED already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 All those who do evil hate the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But those who live by the truth come into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

-And so they are EVIL. See the OT for what must be done with evil people.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 10, 2011
the simplest religion which is Christianity?
Oh I forgot to mention...god has a mother -?

Ya see FT, and I reiterate, that it is not what the various religions would have you BELIEVE that is important. They will after all promise you absolutely anything, up to and including IMMORTALITY in paradise, not to mention granting your every wish, in order to get you to sign up.

No, its what they can make you DO in return for those imaginary but wonderous gifts, that is important.

The People who concocted your dreamworld could care less whether you survive death or not (you dont). They only care what you do while you are here, in this world.

What you do while youre here has a direct bearing on the only real chance at immortality that They, or any of us, has...and that is the chance that their children will live to reproduce. This depends on what kind of world they inherit, and how much of all the knowledege the human race has accumulated, can be preserved for Their use.
cont
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 10, 2011
And no human will be allowed to jeopardize Their chances for biological immortality. This is the commitment of all life.
kochevnik
2 / 5 (8) Aug 10, 2011
How can we expect reason from a progressive when they don't understand any religion, including (using the common term) the simplest religion which is Christianity?


"Religious reasoning" is an oxymoron. Notice how you target progressives as you are a trained counterreformationist, seething with subconscious hatred for all those who escaped the Inquisition, Dark Ages, and Hitler's ovens.
kochevnik
2.1 / 5 (8) Aug 10, 2011
Koch, just repeating the same revisionist lies. so Koch, what do Communists and progressives differ on?


You are committing the quintessential argument from ignorance. Why do xtian fundamentalists feel comfortable arguing from a basis of ignorance? And why do you keep committing the same grievous logical fallacy, uprooting your entire argument like the weed it is?

Communism is a catholic invention perfected in Paraguay, then implanted in unstable governments to infiltrate the prevailing religion. Vatican bankers paid Lenin. The check sits in the British Museum. The successors could employ atheism as a means to an ultimate Roman Catholic control, or communism which is a secular version of the austere catholic priest and nun lifestyle.

Communists live a extreme-rightwing xtian feudalistic lifestyle while progressives promote freethinking and the betterment of humankind.

Ironic you choose the moniker "freethinking" when in fact you support those who would kill the same!
freethinking
1.6 / 5 (7) Aug 10, 2011
Otto: Good verse you used. But who condemns you? Only God, I can only say your actions are good or bad. Hitting me is bad, not hitting me good.

Also,the bible is very clear who the neighbor is, read luke 10 25-37. and how we are to treat our enemy, exodus 23:4, Matthew 5 43-44

God has a mother? Where does the bible say that?

Koch, You are one extremely crazy progressive, who use the tactic of speaking untruths. Where have I ever supported the killing of anyone? Waiting..... Waiting... If you cant find one place where I advocate the killing of anyone, or if you don't appologize for stating that I do, then your posts are to be ignored as the rantings of a lunatic.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (13) Aug 11, 2011
Otto: Good verse you used. But who condemns you? Only God, I can only say your actions are good or bad.
No, since god doesnt exist it must be someone else. Use your imagination.
Hitting me is bad, not hitting me good.
Your mum used to paddle you when you were bad, not god. Other religions wish to paddle you into mush for blaspheming their god. Many PEOPLE judge you, including your own conscience. No gods required.

The Obvious Definition of Morality: What benefits you, your family, and your tribe, is good for you and bad for your enemies. What benefits your enemies is bad for you.
the bible is very clear who the neighbor is
Yeahyeah youve got to put your religion into the political context for which it was conceived. Loving your enemies was a good way of accepting conquered and usurped pagans into the fold. Those who hesitated were gleefully burnt, as history shows us.

At other times loving our enemies would invariably get us martyred like the godman demonstrated.
cont
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 11, 2011
You think your cheek-turning is unique to the xian ethic, but it is typical, as your judeo exodus source implies. Those exodus laws by the way are an example of the tribal dynamic, of internal altruism. They treated their external enemies with unmatched brutality, as well as those within their ranks who did not conform. See Numbers 25:6-9.
God has a mother? Where does the bible say that?
Youre being coy. Do the wordmath of your simple and easily-understood religion:

A) "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God."

B)"A virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

Therefore, A plus B = God ha(d)(s) a mother who was impregnated by a Phantom Wand. What could be simpler than that??

"Holy Mary mother of God..."

"Most of the text of the Hail Mary can be found within the Gospel of Luke."
http://en.wikiped...ail_Mary
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (12) Aug 11, 2011
Is Herr Kochevnik familiar with the term 'Christian Communism'?
http://en.wikiped...ommunism

"21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

Amen(hotep)
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (6) Aug 11, 2011
Problem is Jesus was talking to an individual and not setting up a government system. Come on Otto, 1. read the whole article in wikipedia, and 2. do more research.

http://www.studyt...ism.html

Your lack of understanding of Christianity is sad. Unfortunately many christians have as bad understanding as you do.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.6 / 5 (14) Aug 12, 2011
Your lack of understanding of Christianity is sad. Unfortunately many christians have as bad understanding as you do.
That's funny they all say the same thing about you. And since you're all so enthralled with this nonsense how can any of you be subjective? You all cut and paste, ignore and reinterpret, in order to maintain what YOU think the bible means.

All Religionists do this. Your religions are intentionally vague and COMPLEX to facilitate this. It makes it harder to expose their artifice.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (4) Aug 12, 2011
From Conroy's bio:
http://www.gla.ac...sconroy/

"Before joining the University of Glasgow he was Director of Religious Education and Pastoral Care at St Andrew's College; Senior Lecturer in Theology and Religious Education at St Mary's College, Strawberry Hill"

OK, I can see where a professor for Religious Education would argue that eliminating religious education is a bad idea. This doesn't exactly smack of him being an impartial researcher, does it?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 12, 2011
Case in point:
Problem is Jesus was talking to an individual and not setting up a government system. Come on Otto, 1. read the whole article in wikipedia, and 2. do more research.
Come on, FT, read the whole section of matthew19, from 16 to 30. This is about worldly goods vs salvation. He uses the example of the rich man and then goes on to tell his disciples how rich camels won't fit through needle eyes. Then he says that EVERYONE who leaves everything behind will receive 100x more stuff in heaven. For free. No checkout.

Your argument is typically used by people like Jimmy haggard and Peter popoff to justify their diamond cufflinks, and to steal your money to buy such while they are here on earth.
freethinking
1 / 5 (3) Aug 12, 2011
Otto, I think you should read the whole bible you might get a better understanding of it and Christianity.

BTW I detest frauds of any ilk, but I especially detest those like Peter Popoff. If someone claims to be a faith healer, let them prove it medically. The bible says prove all things.

Success theology is as off base as christian communists.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (14) Aug 13, 2011
Otto, I think you should read the whole bible you might get a better understanding of it and Christianity.
You ought to realize by now that I have, with notes scribbled all through it. And a few teeth marks.
The bible says prove all things.
And science has proved its full of lies. The bible does not tell us what to do with this info.

Actually yes it does:
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves." 2peter2:1

-Another example of NT violence.
Success theology is as off base as christian communists.
Yes I know, as is every other interpretation of it but yours.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (13) Aug 14, 2011
BTW I detest frauds of any ilk, but I especially detest those like Peter Popoff. If someone claims to be a faith healer, let them prove it medically. The bible says prove all things.
But... your religion is a fraud. They are ALL frauds. Consider that, of all the 1000s of religions, sects, and denominations, only ONE has the hope of being the correct one. Chances are very very small that yours is the one.
kochevnik
1 / 5 (4) Aug 15, 2011
A) "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God."


This is the unwritten law of the triskelion: The unity of three, stolen from the Druids as xtians plundered and destroyed them. Xtians employ Hegelian dialectics and dualism, creating chaos to divide and conquer. In fact the mythology of christ was none other than Julius Cesar. "Christ" simply means "the anointed one", or one who is massaged in oil. The Jews in Rome were called the Christos.

Xtians mistake "Amen" to mean "so be it" or "truly." In fact Amen means "the hidden one." The bible, or test-AMEN-t proves that Amen is indeed a god in Kings 1, verse 36:
"Amen, the lord god of my lord the king say so too." Moreover all Abrahamic religions and Hindus deliver their prayers to Amen-Ra, the shape shifting god living in stone obelisks. These giant phalluses honor the god ATUN, who masturbated and made the world.
kochevnik
1 / 5 (5) Aug 15, 2011
And it gets better! In Revelation 3:14, a mythical Jesus Christ proclaimed "Amen is the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God."

Revelation 3:14-22 King James Version

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (12) Aug 15, 2011
@kochevnik
You sir are a fountainhead of dubious information. Have any links so that others might drink from the well?
kochevnik
1 / 5 (5) Aug 17, 2011
Hi I recommend "Deception & Lies Built Christianity in 325 CE"
http://www.youtub...Pi_X2yUY
http://www.youtub...purnpiso

Also Empire of the City: Ring of Power, skipping to the Egyptian history:
http://www.youtub...e#t=167s
Ethelred
5 / 5 (2) Aug 24, 2011
Koch, just repeating the same revisionist lies. so Koch, what do Communists and progressives differ on?
Pretty much everything. Lying that progressives = communist isn't going to become true just because you tell the lie consistently.

If nothing else Marxists have these strange concept called The End of History which is about as antithetical to progress as it gets. Progressive is about progress.

Ethelred