LHC experiments eliminate more Higgs hiding spots (Update)

Aug 22, 2011

(PhysOrg.com) -- Two experimental collaborations at the Large Hadron Collider, located at CERN laboratory near Geneva, Switzerland, announced today that they have significantly narrowed the mass region in which the Higgs boson could be hiding.

The ATLAS and CMS experiments excluded with 95 percent certainty the existence of a Higgs over most of the mass region from 145 to 466 GeV. They announced the new results at the biennial Lepton-Photon conference, held this year in Mumbai, India.

“Each time we add new data to our analyses, we close in more on where the Higgs might be hiding,” said Darin Acosta, a University of Florida professor and deputy physics coordinator for the CMS experiment.

More than 1,700 scientists, engineers and graduate students from the United States collaborate on the experiments at the LHC, most of them on the CMS and ATLAS experiments, through funding by the Department of Energy Office of Science and the National Science Foundation. Brookhaven National Laboratory serves as the U.S. base for participation in the ATLAS experiment, and Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory serves as the U.S. base for participation in the CMS experiment.

The Higgs particle is the last not-yet-observed piece of the theoretical framework known as the Standard Model of particles and forces. According to the , the explains why some particles have mass and others do not.

“The more data the experiments collect, the more scientists can say with greater statistical certainty,” said Konstantinos Nikolopoulos, a physicist at Brookhaven National Laboratory on the ATLAS experiment. “The LHC has been providing that data at an impressive rate. The machine has been functioning beyond expectations.”

Scientists on ATLAS and CMS both announced seeing small, possible hints of the Higgs boson at the European Physical Society meeting in July. Those hints have become less pronounced as scientists have increased the amount of data in their analysis.

“These are exciting times for ,” said ’s research director, Sergio Bertolucci. “Discoveries are almost assured within the next twelve months. If the Higgs exists, the LHC experiments will soon find it. If it does not, its absence will point the way to new physics.”

The experiments are on track to at least double the amount of data they have collected by the end of the year.

Explore further: Serial time-encoded amplified microscopy for ultrafast imaging based on multi-wavelength laser

More information: Further information about the Lepton Photon conference: www.tifr.res.in/~lp11/

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User comments : 18

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Noumenon
4.7 / 5 (48) Aug 22, 2011
Hopefully the results will be resoundingly conclusive rather than in that grey area of statistical uncertainty and debate.
ant_oacute_nio354
1.5 / 5 (8) Aug 22, 2011
The Higgs doesn't exist:
the mass is the electric dipole moment

m = e.k/x (1 - pi^3.alpha^2 /2)

m-mass;e-electron charge;k-Boltzmann constant;
x-Compton wavelength;pi=3.1415927;
alpha-fine structure constant.

Saraiva
Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (5) Aug 22, 2011
For an electron neutrino e in the equation above = 0 yet electron neutrino's have rest mass.

Poor ant. Poor, poor ant.
stealthc
1 / 5 (4) Aug 22, 2011
there is no higgs but for different reasons than ant says, I think of gravity as a localized loop which interacts with other loops, down to the scale of the vacuum. So the fabric of the universe more or less resembles 3d chainmail. A carrier particle for gravity? I bet you they think there's chronotons and tachyons too. How laughable. Time and gravity are not the result of unique carrier particles but of a trait of ALL particles.
antialias_physorg
not rated yet Aug 22, 2011
Hopefully the results will be resoundingly conclusive rather than in that grey area of statistical uncertainty and debate.

As noted in the article the alpha for this statistic is 0.05
(i.e. one in 20 such statistics turn out to be wrong due to 'freak' fluctuations in the measurements taken).

This is why the few events that have been reported as possible Higgs findings aren't being published yet - the statistics are not yet statistically significant (at least not with an alpha of 0.05)
Lazernugget
5 / 5 (1) Aug 22, 2011
For an electron neutrino e in the equation above = 0 yet electron neutrino's have rest mass.

Poor ant. Poor, poor ant.


Cool.

Anyway, I totally believe in the Higgs Boson, even if I'm not doing the math on it right now.
El_Nose
not rated yet Aug 22, 2011
remember this article last week ..

http://www.physor...lhc.html

and then

http://www.physor...849.html

please just jump to around 130 - 139 already so this can be done with -- the issue with brute force searches is that you have to test everything
axemaster
3 / 5 (2) Aug 22, 2011
I really hope they don't find the Higgs... I want there to be a great new mystery to explore.

Come on God, don't let us down!
david_42
5 / 5 (6) Aug 22, 2011
All they will ever get is gray statistics, but when you are five-sigma certain (5-sigma means that the probability that a particular result is simply a fluctuation in the background data, just a statistical fluke, is less than 5.7e-07), you can call it good.

If you require absolute certainty, switch from physics to religion. Nothing can disprove a religious belief.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (1) Aug 22, 2011
please just jump to around 130 - 139 already so this can be done with

You do realize that there is a significant time lag between doing an experiment and evaluating the data?
'Jumping' to another energy region isn't called for. Let them sort through the data they have first.
midddleagemanbob
not rated yet Aug 22, 2011
certinly, i am no scholar, but am intriqued by the higgs, et al. the idea of them being related to or existing as attributes of carrier particles is hard to grok. i am wondering if they are more effects than causes. mass. although obvious, is enigmatic in character without data continuity and association to measurements we can repeat. the idea of studying cataclsym for exactitude at CERN or anywhere else is also hard to grok, although it has proven fruitfull.
where does the explosion of data stop and simply prove to be an explosion?
eachus
2 / 5 (4) Aug 22, 2011
please just jump to around 130 - 139 already so this can be done with -- the issue with brute force searches is that you have to test everything
Two misunderstandings here. First, a problem with the Higgs is that you can't just collide two existing particles and get a Higgs. The lifetime of the bottom quark is so short that they cannot be collected and put into a beam. So if you are looking for a bottom quark and an anti-bottom quark to collide, you have to find that happening in the middle of a lot of other debris. So we have the LHC operating at 3.5 or 7 TeV, and are looking for particles with less than a tenth of that energy.

The second misunderstanding, prevalent here, involves statistical estimates. When researchers say that there is a 95% chance that the Higgs won't be found in the 145 to 466 GeV. They are excluding the entire range, and any version of the Higgs that might occur there. The six sigma limit used as a gate on discovery is a lot easier to meet.
iPan
1 / 5 (4) Aug 22, 2011
Here's a novel idea: the universe has no mass.
Ricochet
not rated yet Aug 23, 2011
Right, and by extension, we and our world have no mass? Is that what you're saying? So, by that, gravity doesn't exist either, since it depends on and acts on mass...
El_Nose
not rated yet Aug 23, 2011
@ant

I do realize the time lag for experimentation to data processing -- nothing humans have can process a few hundred gigabytes a day that the LHC is producing -- secondly

@eachus

I do understand the process they are using to eliminate ranges - but to be honest 50% of the range they eliminated had already been done at other reactors and they were in essence double checking while getting used to the new hardware. Its not the the LHC is the only reactor that can find the Higg's it the only reactor that can thoroughly test the entire range in a 2 year time frame. The number of collisions it can produce at each energy level is a few orders of magnitude higher than anything else built. SO this process is a lot faster than it could have been with say Fermi lab
Pressure2
1 / 5 (1) Aug 23, 2011
Oh geez, this is really getting to be a big disappointment. I was hoping they would find the Higgs only do discover some time in the future it had nothing to do with the origin of mass.
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (1) Aug 24, 2011
The suspense is killing me but its a good time to be alive, so many interesting things to learn and probably trillions of times more things to still learn remaining. It really does seem a cruel joke that their is so much to learn and understand but at most all one human ever gets is 100-120 yrs max.Imagine 1000 yrs into the future.
Ricochet
not rated yet Aug 25, 2011
And thus, why it's called The Information Age...