US looks for answers after hypersonic plane fails

Looks like it's been stolen TWICE now....;-)

Looks like it's been stolen TWICE now....;-)

They crash it into the ocean where it won't be recovered by other nations... it's not like we let other nations recover our technology.

DARPA is so cool. They're like the real life version of Q from 007.

The Peacekeeper launch vehicle was originally designed to carry up to 10 MIRV's. I wonder if this glider weapon would be deployed with multiple gliders per rocket or just one? If the launch costs up to 30 million per shot, but you get 10 gliders per shot then the cost per target isn't too bad compared to other methods. Tomahawk cruise missiles are about a million a piece.

Looks like it's been stolen TWICE now....;-)

I don't think there'd be much left at the crash site. At this kind of speed, even a water crash is gonna be like smacking into concrete. There was a Mythbusters episode where they tested if you would be safe from bullets under water. They found that the slower bullets could shoot you, but the faster ones just burst into tiny bits when they hit the water.

Kinda off topic, but I saw an airplane crash, when I was a teenager in NJ. A small plane ran into power lines over a lake. The debris came down in the trees near the beach, and since my buddy was a lifeguard, we ran over to the crash site with first aid gear. There wasn't anything visible that you would have recognized as an airplane part, or people. Just torn bits of metal and plastic and tree limbs all over the place. There were two men and two kids on board.

By the way, in regard to my previous post. They found out that shooting a Barrett .50 cal into a swimming pool at short range isn't a good idea. lol.

As a matter of fact, at this kind of speed, running into air is almost like smacking into concrete. lol.

consider the famous u.s. spy plane the blackhawk. it travelled faster than any other manned plane EVER. reaching like mach 3 routinely. the plane has ammased some impressive records. the problem is that when you are operating your plane at such high temperatures, it is inherently expensive to maintain. thus the blackhawk , despite its success was closed by congress for being obscenely expensive for a spy program. sattelites and other technologies abrogated the need to spend such outrageous sums to maintain the blistering skin and skeleton of the blackhawk

this is the same reason the this plane will not work for anything but super highly specialized missions. this technology (scram/ram) is not suited for travelling at a large distance in the atmosphere with people. it's suited for carrying rockets up to as high an altitude as possible at the highest possible speed so as to save on the need for carrying oxidizer.

there is NO reason a person needs to be transported this way.

You're referring to the SR-71 Blackbird, not Blackhawk.

I don't think transporting people is one of the research objectives of this HTV project to be fair. There are other projects that are looking at scramjet/ramjet propulsion systems. Furthermore this HTV Falcon is a non-powered craft...it's a glider with flight control systems & thrusters which allow it achieve stable hypersonic flight (although that's currently debatable). Agreed the Blackbird (not blackhawk)was astronomically expensive but more than that it was not particularily useful. By the time it was a working machine it's use was surplus to requirement. Similarly, while I love DARPA and I like research to push the envelope this HTV will never be useful in a military sense...it's not even reusable??? If they want the capability to strike any target on the planet within a short space of time...put a massive satelite up there with a rail-gun or something really really advanced!

..bombers that can strike targets with conventional weapons anywhere on the planet within minutes..

This is defence? Or is it just a continuation of the USA's desire for global domination??

"They crash it into the ocean" - Chief

According to the Washington Times and echoed widely by TeaPublicans, Obama ordered that it be given to his Muslim brother Obama BinLaden.

Question: Pentagon scientists were puzzled by the failed test and said they were trying to understand what went wrong.

Answer: Major Chris Schulz, program manager said: "We do not yet know how to achieve the desired control during the aerodynamic phase of flight."

LOL

The research agency said a team of experts would analyze flight data and address the main technical problems, which it described as aerodynamic, aerothermal, guidance, navigation and control.

The research agency went on to say that other than those minor issues the thing flies like a dream.....

9 minutes? That's pretty good, compared to previous tests. Keep at it!

Lol it severed control and either flew to the newly emerged skynet hive mind in the bahamas or was hijacked and flew a bee-line to china for immediate dismantle and study.

Either way we're fucked.

So how many millions went into the ocean? Also how many trillions in debt are you guys again?

James Webb could have used that money.

Me thinks that America's priorities are bass ackward.

James Webb could have used that money.

Me thinks that America's priorities are bass ackward.

Right on. Lets find some planets (such as with Webb, and the Terrestrial Planet Finder).. I hope TPF isn't completely cancelled, haven't heard much on it.

Well, the main thing is that it went real fast. It crashed, but it crashed at a high velocity. 1 out 2 isn't bad.

This is defence? Or is it just a continuation of the USA's desire for global domination??

As I explained elsewhere, this would actually be cheaper and easier to maintain, once fully developed, and allows negation of rogue state's military with a minimum risk to our own human, vehicle, and technology resources.

Who would you rather to be the world super-power?

The U.S. who goes around protecting people and giving aid to anyone who asks?

Iran? Would you prefer if Iran was the world power? So they can oppress women and kill all "infidels" on sight?

Overwhelming military force reduces needless casualties.

Since evil people and rogue nations aren't going away any time soon, the best option is to be so much better than them that they dare not try anything.

Something really old:

"Offense is the best defense. Defense is the planning of an attack."

Lol, someone just mentioned mythbusters as a proof of some physical effect... Really? Mythbusters?!?
lol

Hmm...we've fought 3 wars (Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya) and never even used the F-22. What are we saving these advanced planes for? The Transformers?

[
Who would you rather to be the world super-power?

The U.S. who goes around protecting people and giving aid to anyone who asks?

You got to be kidding... Please stop watching Fox News.
The USA goes around "helping people and giving aid..."

You have to be joking... Have we been indoctrinated from childhood have we?

Sorry to burst the bubble you live in but the USA is the greatest villain of our world...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki? An unnecessary evil demonstration of power by a moral-less nation with absolutely no regards for the other... AFTER THE WAR WAS FINISHED!!!

Iraq? do you believe the USA had the right to fuck things up in someone elses country and kill MILLIONS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS INCLUDING CHILDREN just for the money from oil?
What about illegal sanctions USA puts up against poor countries in order to keep them poor and US rich?
Man, you are so misinformed, funnily, by the very government you defend... it would be comic if it wasn't sad...

Who would I rather be the worlds super-power? Any other non-muslim country except the USA would be a far better option.

And BTW, FYI (lol), the USA isn't the world's super power for quite a while now... educate yourself...

Educate yourselves:

http://www.herita...ime-high

Around 1/4 of that U.N. money going to help Somalia and other nation is coming from the U.S.

This also doesn't count direct food aid contributions as well as private and "faith based" organizations contributions.

What about illegal sanctions USA puts up against poor countries in order to keep them poor and US rich?

Who are you talking about?

http://wiki.ask.c...mbargoes

Educate yourselves.

Most of these places are run by majority governments who support international terrorism and aggression.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki? An unnecessary evil demonstration of power by a moral-less nation with absolutely no regards for the other... AFTER THE WAR WAS FINISHED!!!

First, that is debatable.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure almost nobody involved in that decision is alive any more anyway.

Do you think that the Japanese civilians were innocent anyway?

They started the war in a totally unprovoked suicide bombing of Hawaii at Pear Harbor.

It's really convenient for you to try to spin the Japanese as a "victim".

You forget they were deliberately using early bio-weapons, like plague and chemical warfare against the Chinese too? I guess they must have skipped that part of the history lesson wherever you went to school.

When an entire nation adopts a philosophy of total war, and attacks multiple other nations in totally un-provoked attacks, yeah, I'm all for a BEAT-DOWN in response. One emperor, or just the royal family, didn't do all that. The EVIL PEOPLE who supported the bastard did it.

Also, I think you are a liar or mis-informed on the casualty rate in Iraq as well. Their military casualties were very high, as would be expected. Their civilian casualties were minimal, and often caused by their own people and the terrorists bombing them.

They removed Libya from the sanctions in 2003, and what do we get in return? Ghadaffi running his mouth in the U.N. calling for destroying western civilization, and then butchering his own citizens.

They have sanctions on these countries because the ruling parties, often the MAJORITY party, are a bunch of murdering thugs.

..bombers that can strike targets with conventional weapons anywhere on the planet within minutes..

This is defence? Or is it just a continuation of the USA's desire for global domination??

Attack is the best defense. Anybody knows this. If you know an enemy is going to attack, why wait until he is ready to do so?

In this world full of obsolete religionist cultures all trying to out-reproduce their neighbors, aggression is Inevitable. The only choice is to attack them first and repeatedly with the intent of destroying the source of their aggression; their culture.

...Their military casualties were very high, as would be expected. Their civilian casualties were minimal, and often caused by their own people and the terrorists bombing them.

Oh I see now...

Thank you for masterfully making my point about your indoctrination...

Good by now, if I have learned anything until now in web-forums is that it is useless arguing with creationists and brainwashed well educated people...

You are a sharp guy, try to find some real information out there not the "official" numbers...
Not as difficult as it looks for, as in the example of Iraq you can try to make virtual friends with some Iraq youth, on the ground and find out how many had their sisters, cousins etc, raped by US soldiers and the story never saw the light of the day...
Or ask a brasillian orange farmer how easy it is to compete internationally with american farmes because of the illegal, often black-budget money Us government injects in the market to keep US prices illegaly competitive...

in the example of Iraq you can try to make virtual friends with some Iraq youth, on the ground and find out how many had their sisters, cousins etc, raped by US soldiers and the story never saw the light of the day...
Or ask a brasillian orange farmer how easy it is to compete internationally with american farmes because of the illegal

Well arent you breathtakingly Stupid.

Hey where ya from soldier? So's I can make fun of the slimy little backwater you call 'home'?

Fidel Castro and all of the cuban scientists (really good ones too FYI

Ah. That explains it. Cuban scientists. All 3 of them. Exploring the many health benefits of polycosanol and chicken feet.

brainwashed well educated people...

None of those in cuba are there? Well educated people I mean-

I have no doubt American soldiers are no different from any other military force in the history of man. There are always bad eggs, even when you throw many good natured people into a war zone and give them no hope of returning anytime soon the mental fatigue can cause these good men to change. Meanwhile propaganda fuels enough people to join up so they can also join in on killing the "bad guys". This isn't the American way, it's the human way, and it does not matter what race or religion you are part of as every single one of them does it in some way or another. Whether it's through corporate greed or religious ideals, it all ends up killing good people.

So the conspiracy trolls have infected physorg as well. I suppose it was just a matter of time.

So the conspiracy trolls have infected physorg as well. I suppose it was just a matter of time.

We've been here all along. We are watching you.

hypersonic research is a good thing, but using it to achieve "prompt global strike" is over thinking the problem. a couple hundred tungsten rods with small deorbit motors orbiting in a constellation would be much easier to achieve. "rods from god" have been thoroughly researched for 20 years.

They probably already exist, but you don't show your cards until someone calls you down.

"The U.S. who goes around protecting people and giving aid to anyone who asks?" - TechnoTard

USA Foreign Aid Budget 2010

Israel Military 2.6 Billion
Israel Economic 0.4 Billion

Egypt Military 1.3 billion
Egypt Economic 0.3 billion

Africa 0.6 Billion
Asia 3.3 Billion
South America 0.4 Billion
Asia Pacific 0.2 Billion
Near East 1.7 Billion
Other 0.0 Billion
----------------------------
Total 10.8 Billion

Cost per American per year $31.75

America ranks at the very bottom of the first world nations in terms of foreign aid per capita.

If they want the capability to strike any target on the planet within a short space of time...put a massive satelite up there with a rail-gun or something really really advanced!

Well US is not the only country with satellites........if US can do it so can others. And there is a pact between US and other nations , not to put weapons in space or on satellites, except for kinetic bombardment......!

America ranks at the very bottom of the first world nations in terms of foreign aid per capita.

You're ridiculous and a bad liar.

Maybe you don't count private, corporate, and other donations.

I'm sure you're not counting all of the volunteer time from stuff like the red cross, missionaries who often build whole towns' houses for them as well as food and water and medicine, doctors who donate wholes weeks or months of their time, and etc.

You might also want to consider that our own military provides FREE MEDICAL EVAC AND FREE MEDICAL CARE to iraqis and afghans, even from normal diseases and civilian accidents and such, which I certainly can't get even right here in my own country.

You might also want to consider that our own military provides FREE MEDICAL EVAC AND FREE MEDICAL CARE to iraqis and afghans, even from normal diseases and civilian accidents and such, which I certainly can't get even right here in my own country.

A good way to cover up your bad deeds ...........by helping the very same people you have destroyed.......my friend US has one lame excuse for every war "nuclear weapons"....why the hell did not they find something......or another possibility may be that the American forces and government are so incompetent and negligent that attacked a country on some misplaced intel.......here is the answer " because there were no weapons" ............here's the problem dude you just don't go killing thousands of people blindly and later try to make things right by providing them some home and medical facilities..!

I just finished a video summary history of the US and one of the things that struck me is how the current polarization of US culture/politics resembles the extreme divide between the North and the South right before the Civil War.

Can the case be made that Americans are the most violent people on Earth? Maybe not...

Can the case be made that Fundamentalist Christians are the most violent people on Earth? Hmmm, sounds about right...

Oh, excuse me: that's a God-fearing NRA representative pounding on my door. Well, it was fun while it lasted...

Uh max aren't you ignoring all the turmoil among indigenes in the middle east, the leaders bombarding rebellious cities, acid being thrown in the faces of women, little kids being hung for being spies and being conscripted into rebel armies etc etc? The London riots?

Religionists are ALL violence-prone. Because the US and other western nations find the need to fight the results of their aggressive overproduction is no reason to get sucked into the bullshit rhetoric so popular with students and other such dimwits. Are you a student max? If not then maybe it's time for you to grow up?

[Double post. This ones better-]
Uh max aren't you ignoring all the turmoil among indigenes in the middle east, the leaders bombarding rebellious cities, acid being thrown in the faces of women, little kids being hung for being spies, conscripted into rebel armies, forced to being suicide bombers, etc etc? The London riots? Norwegian nutjobs? Buddhists fighting border skirmishes over moldy old temples in Thailand?

Religionists are ALL violence-prone. Because the US and other western nations find the need to fight the results of their aggressive overproduction is no reason to get sucked into the bullshit rhetoric so popular with students and other such dimwits.

Are you a student max? If not then maybe it's time for you to grow up?

Oh, excuse me: that's a God-fearing NRA representative pounding on my door. Well, it was fun while it lasted...

And it's too bad all those law-abiding Brits only had cricket bats to protect themselves and their property with isn't it? The looters had guns. They shot many people. One died in his car.

The riot started from a police gun raid gone wrong. A gang banger got shot too bad. So his bros decided to burn tottenham down, and the bobbies were nowhere to be found. Or they were standing around waiting to arrest anyone who tried to defend themselves with a gun I suppose.

Now Brits will have to pay for more cops who will still take 15-20 mins to answer a 911 call while middle-aged people and women are trying to fend off home invaders. With cricket bats.

here's the problem dude you just don't go killing thousands of people blindly and later try to make things right by providing them some home and medical facilities..!

Naw you're right we should do it like al shabbab and prevent them from getting relief. Let them starve in the desert. Or in the jungle like the Hutu did the Tutsi in Burundi. Or vice versa in Rwanda. Great pits full of them. Like pol pot did.

Or hey - we could do it like the Serbs did to Moslems in Bosnia. More pits full of bodies. Until the US put a stop to it. Like when Hussein gassed the Kurds in their villages or the xians in that Palestinian camp in Lebanon. Lots of examples.

And it's too bad all those law-abiding Brits only had cricket bats to protect themselves and their property with isn't it? The looters had guns. They shot many people. One died in his car.

Maybe we should give every country nuclear weapons.

Later comments on this topic are all 'off topic', as cricket bats, rioters, and racism has no bearing to hypersonic flight regimes. My guess is that when one is flying a flake, it had better be a powered flake or it is as a kite sans tail! This thing had no power. It is more expensive, but we will have to use larger, fully powered models similar to the X-15 if we want to see progress. But not to worry, the Chinese saw the shape of this and will build a larger robotic controlled scram-jet version of it and try it. What 'flew' on this flight was a wind tunnel model, probably complete with a screw hole on the bottom for mounting it on a stick, like it was in the wind tunnel where it evidently performed beautifully as long as it was steadied by the stick. No stick, and no power == no possible control forces sufficient to overcome dynamic instabilities in a real world flight regime.

Otto, I live in london, some of my local shops got trashed. There was only one gun death, two arrests for that so far, one 68 year old assaulted, died from head injuries, one arrested so far. That Malaysian student you see getting robbed? Two miles from my home.
Many shots fired? Don't make me laugh. Oh, and far from increasing police funding, the present government is going to reduce it. Lastly, never underestimate a cricket bat.

If they want the capability to strike any target on the planet within a short space of time...put a massive satelite up there with a rail-gun or something really really advanced!

At least WMDs are prohibited in orbit (under the SALT II treaty and also the Outer Space treaty). Kinetics and other 'pinpoint' weapons, unfortunately, are not.

So how many millions went into the ocean?

Quote from a news site (2007):
"The most ambitious project in a new $459 billion (£221.5 billion) defence spending Bill"

...so you can guess that not millions but billions just went fwoosh.

DARPA projects may be cool but for that kind of money I know a lot of other projects that would add up to a whole lotta more cool.

The U.S. who goes around protecting people and giving aid to anyone who asks?

Thanks for the laugh. This gets my vote for "most deluded statement of this (and the last) century".

Who would I rather be the worlds super-power? Any other non-muslim country except the USA would be a far better option.

And BTW, FYI (lol), the USA isn't the world's super power for quite a while now... educate yourself...

China, perhaps? They're the only other country that has the resources & could possibly handle it... Too bad they're Communist... But hey! If you're into having only one leader for a lifetime, then by all means, support the Anyone But America campaign.

To Vendicar:

America ranks at the very bottom of the first world nations in terms of foreign aid per capita.

Not sure where you got that 10 billion figure, but that certainly isn't a comprehensive figure. Maybe that's direct financial aid? Whatever that is, it's not anywhere near the total US Federal foreign aid. Our United Nations budget alone is bigger than that. That's really off topic though, which is not unusual for you. Besides, it's our money and we can spend it any way we want.

If you don't like us spending money on cool DARPA research, then stop using our internet. Yep, this is a DARPA invention!

Many shots fired? Don't make me laugh.

How do you know?

"Duggan's weapon a BBM 'Bruni' pistol containing live rounds was hidden in a spare sock"

"He had been stopped by undercover officers as he travelled in a minicab and confronted because they believed he was on his way to 'use the weapon'."

"Notorious gangster Desmond Noonan ... was the uncle of Mark Duggan, who was shot by police

"[Noonan] also boasted: 'I've got a bigger army than the police. We have more guns than the police.'

"And at one stage during the Channel 5 documentary with journalist Donal MacIntyre, he hinted that he was responsible for 27 murders."

"Hundreds of so-called Noonan Boys youngsters said to be allied to the crime family were allegedly also among the city centre rioters and looters."

So. Your city was trashed by gangsters who will always have guns. And you WILL be paying more for police protection as a result, who will nevertheless be powerless to stop crime against you as it is happening.

they are still playin cricket. What ever happened to staying on topic? Darn wickets around here are gettin tooooo sticky. Think I'll go have a cuppa tea and lardy cakes before headin' for the loo'.....after hangin a no smokin sighn on the doooooooooor...

I love all this political talk. I think America needs to abandon the world and focus on paying off its debt and creating a way to make money again. Once we are gone, everyone will see how big a difference we were making. I would then say, "Sorry, why dont you ask the UK or China to help. Bye". I would just love that. I think the world has to get Less Stable in order to get More Stable.

Once we are gone, everyone will see how big a difference we were making. I would then say, "Sorry, why dont you ask the UK or China to help. Bye". I would just love that.

Yeah, exactly. But don't stop there! Tax the crap out of outsourcing, repeal NAFTA, and take our UN donations down to match what everyone else gives too.

Close ALL the foreign military bases...
Stop ALL exchange student programs...
Obtain refund for ALL the money we (as a country) spent on Harry Potter movies, book, and merchandise...

"For that money..." - somewhere by someone.
Yes.
We badly need more funding. More funding for what?
CIA sponsored vaccinations.

Once we are gone, everyone will see how big a difference we were making. I would then say, "Sorry, why dont you ask the UK or China to help. Bye". I would just love that.

Yeah, exactly. But don't stop there! Tax the crap out of outsourcing, repeal NAFTA, and take our UN donations down to match what everyone else gives too.

Uh...

"U.S. arrears to the UN currently total over $1.3 billion. Of this, $612 million is payable under Helms-Biden. The remaining $700 million result from various legislative and policy withholdings; at present, there are no plans to pay these amounts."

To the Ghost:

The actual budget for the UN, including peacekeeping costs, is somewhere around 15 billion, and the US pays about 1/4 of that, so being .7 billion short on a 3.75 billion contribution isn't bad. Most countries don't come close to spending .7 billion on the UN. The next biggest contributor, Japan gives about half what we give. Germany is third with about a third of our donation. From there it plummets.

By the way, wiki isn't a good source for current events. It's significantly outdated. It looks like your quote came from there, so just thought I'd mention that before you tell me that the UN budget isn't 15 bill.

What 'flew' on this flight was a wind tunnel model, probably complete with a screw hole on the bottom for mounting it on a stick, like it was in the wind tunnel where it evidently performed beautifully as long as it was steadied by the stick. No stick, and no power == no possible control forces sufficient to overcome dynamic instabilities in a real world flight regime

That's not remotely accurate. Wind tunnels that go faster than a few mach do not operate like you think. The fastest wind tunnel in the world can do mach 30, but only for two miliseconds.

What they flew here was a fully equipped aircraft with control surfaces. The shape isn't a secret. It's all about the materials and the behavior of the control surfaces. Reaching hypersonic velocity is fairly routine with rockets, but it's ballistic flight, not controlled atmospheric flight. That's the goal of this; to figure out hypersonic atmospheric controls. Nobody has ever done it.