Physicists closing in on 'God particle' (Update)
European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) scientists talk in the Alice experiment control room in 2010 near Geneva during an experiment in the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). Experiments at the world's biggest atom smasher have yielded tantalising hints that a long-sought sub-atomic particle truly exists, with final proof likely by late 2012, physicists said.
Experiments at the world's biggest atom smasher have yielded tantalising hints that a long-sought sub-atomic particle truly exists, with final proof likely by late 2012, physicists said Monday.
"We know everything about the Higgs boson except whether it exists," said Rolf Heuer, director general of the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN).
"We can settle this Shakespearean question -- to be or not to be -- by the end of next year," he told journalists at a webcast press conference at CERN headquarters in Geneva.
Researchers at the US Department of Energy's Fermilab, meanwhile, also reported telltale signs of the elusive particle, heating up a longstanding rivalry between the two high-energy physics laboratories.
CERN and Fermilab have both reduced the range of mass within which the "God particle," as it is known, might be found to a fairly narrow, low-mass band.
"The search for the Higgs boson is entering its most exciting, final stage," Stefan Soldner-Rembold, spokesman for one of Fermilab's two key experiments, said last week in a statement.
Higgs or no Higgs, the stakes are huge either way, and could easily earn a Nobel Prize for the scientists who can take credit for the breakthrough.
The long-postulated particle, first proposed in 1964, is the missing cornerstone of an otherwise well-tested theory, called the Standard Model, which explains how known sub-atomic elements in the universe interact.
Without the 'God particle', however, that whole edifice falls apart because the Standard Model fails to answer one fundamental question: why do most elementary particles have mass?
British theoretical physicist Peter Higgs proposed a mechanism that would "save" the theory -- if the particle named for him truly exists.
"If you find the Boson Higgs, the Standard Model is complete. If you don't find it, then the Model has a serious problem. Both outcomes are discoveries," Heuer said.
A monitor showing the first ultra high-energy collisions is seen at the CMS experiment control room of the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in 2010 near Geneva. Experiments at the world's biggest atom smasher have yielded tantalising hints that a long-sought sub-atomic particle truly exists, with final proof likely by late 2012, physicists said.
The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) -- a 27-kilometre (16.9-mile) ring-shaped tunnel 100 metres (325 feet) below ground straddling the French-Swiss border -- is on track to crack the puzzle within 18 months, he said."The LHC is working beyond my expectations, as are the experiments" which, he added, are "now ready to bring us into unchartered territory."
Scientists have increased the amount of collisions delivered to the experiments by a factor of 20 over the last year, he noted.
The complex is designed to accelerate sub-atomic particles in opposite directions at nearly the speed of light and then smash them together, creating collisions that briefly stoke temperatures 100,000 times hotter than the Sun.
Researchers search the fleeting, sub-atomic rubble for clues to unsolved mysteries about the origin and make-up of the universe.
"But don't expect too much too quickly," Heuer cautioned. "We are a factor of ten away from (the collision force) we hope to have at the end of next year. We are just in the middle," he said.
The announcments at CERN Monday received an unexpected challenge from George Smoot, an American astrophysicist who won the Nobel prize in 2006 for pioneering work on the Big Bang, which set the known Universe in motion 13.7 billion years ago.
"Here we have a situation where people locked into a model -- the Standard Model -- because it was a great solution way before there was any data," said Smoots, seated among the journalists at the press conference.
"I think we are actually seeing a discovery, but because we have been so narrow and brainwashed in our focus ... (theorists) have not really looked at the fact that there are new possibilities out there."
Jean Iliopoulos, winner in 2007 of the prestigious Dirac Medal for theoretical physics and mathematics shot back with a rejoinder.
"The role of the theorists is not only to run behind data, but to anticipate it," he said.
(c) 2011 AFP
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Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 3.4 / 5 (12)
No, it doesn't. It would only have a problem explaining the origin of mass. It is a massive problem, but doesn't affect the validity of the rest of the Model.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1.4 / 5 (58)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 4.8 / 5 (5)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (5)
FH, please don't explain my lame attempts at humor. It seems to have a negative effect on the conversation. Although I suppose this article warrants this level of discourse.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (7)
Rip theory predicts that this process is always occurring with the creation and annihilation of particles and virtual particles on the minute quantum scale. This process can occur at temps above zero kelvin, but at zero kelvin this process occurs on large scales, scales involving more than single quanta.
© Copyright 2011 Thomas A. Sullivan
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 4.9 / 5 (13)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (5)
We know everything about the God except whether it exists.
Spot the difference
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (5)
Bazinga???
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (3)
Except that it's the rare theory that makes specific predictions that are found to be true. Many are formed or constantly modified to fit the facts.
The Higgs will almost certainly be found. Not because the standard model is correct but because it describes reality well enough so far that its requirement of a mass mediator means that something that fits the bill will probably be found. Is it making a prediction or is it making the theory fit the fact that mass exists?
Newtonian physics described reality real well too once.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
On another note, why does TomSullivan feel such a compulsive need to bring such a disputed theory into play at EVERY opportunity he gets? He is slowly torturing THAT hobby-horse to death! Also, why the need to put a copyright mark at the end of every post?? Unfortunately, the only impression that leaves, is rather tainted by a projected sense of arrogance. Sorry mate, but that is merely how it is coming across.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (6)
It is because since second quantization, they have been trained to believe that fields are quantized and hence the gravitational field must be quantized as well. Momentum? Oh, that has to be quantized too.
Why? Because...
So you have to have a particle mediating the quantization.
Basically they are looking for a one trick pony that can explain everything to the limit of observation and computation.
So far, you must admit, they have had remarkably good luck.
If only they actually knew what they were doing.
Then I would have more confidence in their virtually non-existent explanations.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
A friend and I have just had a thought: IF the description of the Higgs as a uniqe mass imparter holds true, just how and where does it fit into the creation timelines ascribed to the Big Bang (or variations thereof)?
Also, no matter which sub-category a particle fits into, a particle is a particle, is a particle. So if it can impart mass, where does IT get it from? You can't impart what you don't already have. Or is it supposed to be some sort of 'lock and key' system, where the mixing of two other properties (one from the Higgs and one from the particle 'wanting' mass) creates the 'new' property we call mass?
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (52)
Photons for example don't interact with the field and are able to zoom through it unimpeded.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (8)
My foot can impart a red welt on your backside. Does that mean my foot contains a red welt waiting to be transferred to your derriere?
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 3.4 / 5 (5)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (5)
Ap olgies if this slots into the thread out of place. I have no idea what (if anything) has been added on in the meantime. There does not appear to be live updating of incoming information and that is very annoying.
NOTE TO MODERATOR: Live thread updating would be appreciated!!!
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (4)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 3.4 / 5 (5)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Apart from that: H2O well-greased feathers = unconcerned duck :)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
Like an aether?
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Because that's what the standard theory of particle physics is predicting.
No, it doesn't. Nothing NEEDs to exist, but there is good reason to expect that it does exist. In fact, the Higgs mechanism was 'discovered' back in the 60s by three independent groups almost at the same time, so this more than a just-so theory.
Of course, in some ways, it would be even more exciting if the Higgs mechanism was completely ruled out, as this would send the theoreticians back to their slide-rules and perhaps lead to new physics. It's a win-win.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Only as a superficial analogy.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 4.4 / 5 (7)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
As the result, these scale invariant density fluctuations (Brownian noise) are virtual from perspective of surface ripples, nevertheless they can still cause the attractive force between objects at short distances (an analogy of shielding Casimir force).
If physicists would take the dense aether model of vacuum seriously, they would get into such simple connections already before many years.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Well known "hiearchy problem" implies, that quantum corrections can make the mass of the Higgs particle arbitrarily large, since virtual particles with arbitrarily large energies are allowed in quantum mechanics. Because Standard Model cannot predict Higgs boson mass, it cannot use it in any equation, which actually means, it doesn't require it for anything from perspective of mainstream physics, which does care just only about numbers of its model, not about their philosophy at background.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
:)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 0.7 / 5 (48)
lol good one
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
http://www.c90.bi...-signal/
Tevatron has a sensitivity up to 180 GeV and LHC up to 400 GeV. But lightest Higgs is expected at 115 - 145 GeV, i.e. well within the reach of both colliders.
Currently we have two colliders with four detectors and each of which produces different results. Some speculations about their averaged signals exist, but it's just a speculation in this moment, because these results differ significantly. We simply "need" more data.
http://blog.vixra...-combos/
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
The standard model can't have both.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
"Do the orders still stand?"
(SOP - Standard Operating Physics)
"Did I say otherwise?"
"Terrified, petrified, mortified by you" -
John Nash portrayed in "Beautiful Mind"
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
e-electron charge;k-Boltzmann constant;
c-Light speed;h-Planck constant;pi=3.1415927;
alfa-Fine structure constant
alfa = 1/(137^2 pi^2)^0.5
Aug 01, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
In that case, could that mean that the universe in general, and we specifically do not exist? Wow, *that* would be a load off my mind.... Or can one just infer that mass does not exist? In which case, we would all just spirit forms.
Sorry, my imagination is just working overtime.
Aug 02, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Aug 02, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
HUH!?!?!
Where did the assumption of opposite entropy paths come from? Or for that matter, that the outside of our universe is antimatter, just because matter dominates on the inside???
Also, it is not the 'forces' that LHC (or any other particle acceleration lab) would be seeking, it would be the particle responsible for generating the relevant fields, if such a search is what is called for. Somehow, not that they would be looking for evidence of the existence of EM-fields.......