US lawmakers vote to kill Hubble successor
Artist impression of the James Webb telescope. Credit: NASA
In a fresh blow to NASA's post-shuttle aspirations, key US lawmakers voted Thursday to kill off funding for the successor to the vastly successful space-gazing Hubble telescope.
The US House of Representatives Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, and Science approved by voice vote a yearly spending bill that includes no money for the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST).
The move -- spurred on by belt-tightening in cash-strapped Washington -- still requires the full committee's approval, the full House's approval, the Senate's approval, and ultimately President Barack Obama's signature.
But the relatively mild dissents in the committee, which said in a terse statement this week that the project "is billions of dollars over budget and plagued by poor management," suggests the JWST faces an uphill fight to survive.
The vote struck a blow at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's goals with the space shuttle program about to end after 30 years, and Obama's decision to axe a new plan to return astronauts to the moon.
NASA plans to lay out a budget that "will allow us to launch the Webb telescope in this decade," deputy administrator Lori Garver told reporters at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
"We will be working with Congress to assure them we can manage this program and develop the most amazing space telescope," she said, calling the JWST "a perfect example of reviewing the unknown and reaching for new heights."
In February, NASA Inspector General Paul Martin told lawmakers the JWST had careened billions of dollars over budget.
Initial estimates put the cost of the telescope, designed to help the hunt for knowledge about early galaxies in the universe, at $1.6 billion, but now the total price tag has ballooned to $6.5 billion, he said.
NASA has repeatedly pushed back the telescope's launch date, now set for 2018 at the earliest.
A full scale model of the James Webb Space Telescope sits on the National Mall outside the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC, in 2007. In a fresh blow to NASA's post-shuttle aspirations, key US lawmakers voted Thursday to kill off funding for the successor to the vastly successful space-gazing Hubble telescope.
The project, initially named the Next Generation Space Telescope, is designed to look deeper into space than the Hubble Telescope, and would also venture farther than the Earth-orbiting Hubble, launched in 1990.Some Democrats on the panel voted against the bill, and lawmakers often wait until the full committee takes up legislation to offer amendments to protect cherished projects.
The vote came one day after Obama, in an unprecedented question and answer session with Twitter users, said NASA needs new technology breakthroughs to revitalize its mission to explore the universe.
"We are still a leader in space exploration, but, frankly, I have been pushing NASA to revamp its vision," Obama said, as the shuttle Atlantis geared up for its final mission.
Obama, who axed NASA's Constellation program that would have sent astronauts back to the moon, said the United States should move beyond the space travel models it used in the Cold War-era race to the moon in the 1960s.
JWST is an international collaboration grouping NASA, the European Space Agency (ESA), and the Canadian Space Agency (CSA).
(c) 2011 AFP
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Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.9 / 5 (54)
Jul 07, 2011
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Jul 07, 2011
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Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 1.2 / 5 (14)
Breaking News: Private Company to Deploy New Space Telescope
(3 Days Later) TRAGEDY: Space Telescope Rocket Crashes into School
(...Later) Government to Approve Money for NASA (at taxpayer expense)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (29)
Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.4 / 5 (32)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (24)
Can we please force the retirement of all NASA management and start anew? Their politicking is taking away from exceptional science programs.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (13)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.7 / 5 (19)
management guys are bunch of loosers, can't even do good math, few hundred millions I can understand, but billions over budget ?? that's pathetic, I was excited, that I will see this beauty working for science in 2014, they fu... up and we probably won't see JWSP in space until early 2020's....design and functionality will be outdated then. We will have better telescopes even here, on Earth
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 1.6 / 5 (12)
Now NASA can start working on a Mars expedition model :):)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.8 / 5 (35)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.6 / 5 (15)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.7 / 5 (13)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.3 / 5 (6)
-Maybe someone realized that by the time the JWST is launched it will have been superceded -?Robots...
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (36)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.8 / 5 (16)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.4 / 5 (22)
So to goes the spirit of discovery, the advancement of knowledge and the desire to learn in the union of states.
Good night America. You've traded the fire you held for these things to hold a flame for war and destruction instead.
We're sad to see you go.
Signed Canada.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.6 / 5 (16)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 1.4 / 5 (58)
http://www.politi...id-main/
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (10)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (57)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.3 / 5 (9)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (7)
" NOT YET my young apprentice"
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (12)
Canada? Canada!!! Lose a hockey game and then burn and Vandalize a proud and productive city (Vancouver)! One of the finest places on earth to live and you have the gall...the unmitigated temerity, to prematurely cheer the demise of so much as a grain of sand on anyone else's shores! You forget yourself "Canada"! America HAS a space program and they make PLENTY of room for Canadian science in it (Canada 'arm') YOU do not have the right to speak for an entire nation of people and only left Afghanistan a few days ago.
word-to-ya-mothers
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.1 / 5 (14)
Correct. There is no future for America. The technological expertise that designed the JWT will now be exported to China just like most of America's other jobs.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (13)
Perhaps this will explain the situation to you.
"We need to manufacture an 'economic' crisis in order to assure that there is no alternative to a smaller government." - Republican Jeb Bush - Imprimus Magazine 1995.
"Starve the beast of government through fiscal bankruptcy." - Republican Party strategy as stated by Republican Strategest Grover Norquest.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3.5 / 5 (13)
You didn't fall for the Bush Era Nonsense about America going to Mars did you?
The Republican plan has always been to destroy NASA...
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 1.6 / 5 (11)
So long America. It is so nice to see you go.
The world will not miss you.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 2.8 / 5 (8)
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (12)
You can't possibly be shocked. I've been telling you that the JWT won't reach orbit every time I see a story about it.
Don't you know the motivations of those Republican traitors your fellow countrymen have been voting for for the last 40 years?
Weren't you paying attention? Or did you think the Republicans were joking when they said that they wish to kill the American Government in a bathtub of water?
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (11)
Couldn't have said it better, although u did forget white phosphorus and stuxnet 2.0.
I mean you would be saner to believe the usa is in iraq to secure secret hidden alien tech than you are to believe we are there to protect americans at this point.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.4 / 5 (14)
either that or win a contest on who can assrape and bankrupt a successful country the fastest.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3.9 / 5 (15)
And yet you see more clearly than 90% of Americans who are still deep in denial.
Right now.. Republicans are plotting to push the U.S. into a 30 year depression by raising the U.S. unemployment rate to 30%, and denying Government Unemployment Assistance to those whom they cause to lose their jobs.
This is what the Budget debate in the U.S. is all about. Republican created depression or a slow climb out of the Republican created debt crisis.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (18)
Don't B2 bombers cost around 2 billion each?
Wasn't the advanced fighter coming in a 1 billion per unit?
How much is Bushies little war crime in Iraq going to cost the U.S.? 3,000 to 4,000 billion by best estimates?
Didn't Reagan's aids say that Borrowing a trillion dollars plus was the greatest thing they ever did?
Didn't Dick Cheney say that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter?
Are you beginning to see the extent of the treason these Libertarian Republicans have conducted against your nation?
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3.5 / 5 (11)
You might have noticed that your own countrymen just re-elected the very tea-publican traitors who created your debt crisis in the first place.
It seems to me that in re-electing the Republican traitors to office their criminal ideology has been celebrated, and they are as far away from being punished for their crimes as possible.
Is it standard practice for rational, thinking people to elect criminals to high political office?
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Perhaps the European Space Agency will buy it for 10c on the dollar ??
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Apparently so, from Richard Nixon, to Adolph Hitler, to Saul of Jerusalem literally scores of miscreants get 'picked'. Also, often if you do NOT elect them, they raise an army and take power. There is no escaping their ilk but the Space Telescope is NOT dead yet. It may eventually die but it is NOT dead yet.
word-to-ya-muthas
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (5)
Yes, that is the approximate cost for a B-2 Bomber; and after Kosovo, Iraq, twice, and Libya, it has proven its' worth the money.
No, the F-22 is not that much AND it is the last fighter along with the F-35 that will be manned. Yes, there will always be humans in armed air combat just...different.
No, the Iraqi freedom action will cost a little more than 4 Trillion dollars.
word
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (6)
Vendi - Please CUT the american people just a teeny tiny bit of slack...I can assure you, more than ten percent of the US population voted DEMOCRAT my friend. You are, are, insulting people who feel the same way YOU DO, please, please, calm down and show consideration for like minded and humane people. Other than that, everything else you wrote MAY be the agenda of some who call themselves 'republicans' in your great country! Now...breathe DEEP...exhale...take another toke...breatheeee...toke.......sip...exhale
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (8)
Vendi - c'mon! I won't even argue with you...just try...TRY to imagine someone as passionate as you are about what is WRONG with America thinking...no, DREAMING of a world in which there was/is NO United States of America. Heck, you would have to wake up and apologize!!!
If America did nothing else right, it let you live here, duh!?! And what a boring as Hell place this world would be without Americans in it...no rock and roll, no,.. no,.. no,... ROCK AND ROLL! C'mon man, ease off a little huh?
word-to-ya-muthas
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (8)
Any wonder why NASA is screwed up and the congress is cutting funds for worthy projects. Can you blame them with the administrator busy trying to make Muslims "feel good" while the agency mismanages important projects like the Web Telescope. Malfeasance is too kind a word for his actions. What a bunch of pathetic rubbish.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 4.9 / 5 (7)
The SSC deserved to be killed, like the supersonic transport program, and for the same reason. The programs quickly became infested with bureaucrats who would be retired well before the program accomplished anything, and the money went in lots of directions. In the case of the SSC more construction costs for office buildings than for the collider tunnel.
Once the maggots infect a program like that, it can't be saved. What about the JWST? I don't think it is dead yet. We will see if the bureaucrats volunteer to clean up their act and get the program back on track or not.
Jul 07, 2011
Rank: 1.5 / 5 (4)
Ya, a lot of great stuff came from the 60's peace movement. A large amount of it came from england of course.
Music died in the 70's. But what was good was Canadian largely.
In the 80s technopop is great but it was pretty multinational, withe Canada, the UK, and the U.S. in there.
Then rap took over and wrestling and roller derby came back to American TV, and for the last 20 years American music has been in rapid decline.
Right now the best stuff to listen to is Russian.
Here is a sample.....
http://www.youtub...18RdxPZM
http://www.youtub...bEHNTqBc
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (5)
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (9)
You don't get it do you Brainwave? The U.S. is bankrupt. Morally, Ethically, Intellectually, and Economically.
IF the U.S. manages to survive at all - which I strongly doubt - it won't be returning to space until the end of this century, and most probably as a passenger on a Russian/Chinese built craft.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 3.9 / 5 (11)
Bolden didn't zero funding for the JWST. Radical, treasonous Republicans did, re-elected just 2 years after they ran their own nation's economy into the ground through tax breaks for the rich and relaxed regulation for their corporate brothers in crime.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (11)
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 2.7 / 5 (6)
And 80 percent of Democrats think they can just trim a little here or trim a little there and solve the budget crisis, when in fact it means increasing taxes by 50% or shutting down 1/3rd of the U.S. government.
Which 1/3rd do you think the Republican enemy plans to shut down?
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (1)
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 2.2 / 5 (9)
What stopping Canada from doing the job?
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (14)
Kodak produced the bad mirror John Boy.
And they performed the faulty Focault tests.
Once again Corporate America failed, and in ignorance you blame NASA.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (11)
What Job? Tard Boy.
Continuing the American campaign of murder and theft in the middle east.
I don't think that Canadians are interested in conducing themselves so immorally.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Russian chicks are infinitely superior.
Perhaps a little Corsican...
http://www.youtub...YeXPQaQI
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
This is just horrible for so many reasons.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Oh...Okay, and, thanks for the warning Vendi! I can see the extreme cuteness no doubt inherent in ALL Russian women...when I reach perfection...and I am in a hurry NOW to be MR. PERFECT, I will get over to Russia and hit the disco/night club scene. I am sure Russian women have VERY high standards and...gosh...thanks for opening my eyes man! I could have died without knowing what I was missing :-)
word-to-ya-muthas
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 3.4 / 5 (5)
Who cares if they go over budget by a few billion, they're taking us to space and beyond for crying out loud!
It's some of the most important work mankind has ever done but people still find time to bitch about the management and other petty things.
NASA have done a fantastic job in helping us realise our dreams and to cancel a project like this stinks of ignorance.
Look at Hubble and all of the beautiful pictures of the universe we have explored and try to imagine not having these images or knowledge that this amazing stuff is out there. Without the hard work from the men and women at NASA it would not have been possible.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 4.1 / 5 (7)
Even when the budget is over, when wapens are involt, that don't matter at all.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (5)
Fact is that like Constellation and many other poorly run NASA projects, JWST has evolved into a vampire program; one that sucks the life, and money, out of other better run and more efficient projects.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (5)
I don't care if costs are mounting up, I've seen the amazing pictures from Hubble and am really excited to see what JWST is capable of.
You have to remember it's not just the US that has money invested in this program, the ESA and others are also working at this project.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (11)
GTFO
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (12)
No more world leader on Education
No more world leader on Infrastructure
No more world leader on Biggest Passenger planes
No more world leader on Biggest Car and Plane company
No more world leader on Largest Ground based Telescopes
No more world leader on Largest Particle Accelerators
No more world leader on Renewable Energy (yes, it once was!)
Soon it will have no more Space Shuttle`s, No more Hubble successor. No more Tevatron. And this just seems the beginning of US decline. It`s a shame the US doesn`t have leaders who care about it`s future. Cutting NASA while boosting the CIA by 17 Billion in a time of US decline is disturbing. The same policy of the Holy Roman Empire just before it collapsed. Military, Military, Military. Not strange more and more US scientists are moving to nations like Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland etc.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
No wonder why the rest of the world thinks so little of america and it's citizens!
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (3)
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
But seriously, when the economy upswings again, there will be justification for a bigger better lens in space. We have other priorities that come first right now. You don't buy a 60" HDtv when your broke. It's just stupid.
As to NASA, they were once the pinnacle of pushing our frontiers. They brought alot to us. They have settled lately for routine, mundane tasks. I see no reason to keep them unless they are revisioned to push those boundaries again. So for once, I actually agree with Obama scraping NASA's vision, and I believe he has recently requested that they plan for Mars instead.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 4.5 / 5 (4)
You know the saying, first they came for...( found here http://en.wikiped...E2%80%A6 ).
First the manufacturing jobs were off-shored to China. And no one said anything.
Then white collar jobs went to China ( call centers to India...) and no one said anything ( loud enough to be heard )
Then High tech jobs went to China ( Dell pc made in China )
Then...(fill in the blanks )
Now there no more jobs to off shore and most Americans would be happy to find a minimum wage job at McDonald or Wall mart.
Divide and conquer has worked just fine this time too.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 4.6 / 5 (5)
You cannot afford to do R&D after you have promised to deliver a functioning device. R&D is for learning about the unknown and there is no telling how long it will take or how much it will cost. Doing a specific project with clearly defined specs, costs, and deadlines requires enough knowledge from your R&D efforts that you can predict with reasonable certainty that there are no major unknowns that would prevent you from completing the project.
Either it was mismanaged, or they did not know enough to build it at this time. Regardless, NASA is guilty of making a promise that it could not keep. Either change the management team and try again, or go back to R&D to learn more before making another promise.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (9)
Know what? This exact thing happened to the relative of friend of mine. She spent three years in prison as a result of declaring bankruptcy for her flower shop. In China. That's right; there such failure is punishable by imprisonment. She wasn't found guilty of fraud or some such, just having to close her shop. Yes, this too is part of the Chinese economic miracle. Must be considered motivation. But is this really where you want to go?
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 4.4 / 5 (7)
If the real reason for this cut was the mismanagement, then instead of a cut in funding they would go after the individuals who mismanaged instead of the project.
It's not the project, or science's "Fault" that the project went over budget.
This all seems much more an automatic responce by those committed to cutting all non-military related spending to zero.
Were we to not have engaged in SEVERAL wars of CHOICE (not need) we would easily have the money for this project, along with being able to provide our citizens with the basic tools needed to survive in a cut-throat capitalistic society.
Jul 08, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Did you seriously censor "stupid" and "idiots"? lolwut?
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
You just don't understand. The patterns of 1's and 0's in bank computers are more important than anything physical, anything meaningful.
Even more important than your life.
Capitalists tell me that those 1's and 0's never get in the way of progress, and in fact maximize it.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 3.6 / 5 (5)
That is the Republican plan.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
it at this time." - code warrior
Ahhhhhhhhh.... It occurs to me that predicting the cost of something that has never been engineered before is not particularly easy or reliable because... Well, because, it has never been done before.
Hence the cost overruns.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
You planning ahead for year 2245 Boy?
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Mr Perfect is my nickname.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
I doubt they read them, but it's something we can do at least.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (1)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (5)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 1.3 / 5 (10)
http://blogs.forb...ernment/
""Once science has to serve, not truth, but the interests of a class, a community or a state.... As the Nazi minister of justice has explained, the question which every new scientific theory must ask itself is: 'Do I serve National Socialism for the greatest benefit of all?'"
http://www.crossr...m-11.htm
Cutting the program is positive sign the US may still beat back the socialists.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (5)
While it may be true that we have become a nation of self obsessed hedonists who over consume and overspend, consider what the last century would have been like without America. We pulled Europe from the brink twice and then rebuilt her, we kept the world free for a half century, we feed the world, we share out technology, we are always there to pick up the pieces when there is an earthquake, or hurricane, or famine.
For those of you who gleefully cheer on the demise of the U.S.A., you might want to consider what the next century will be like in your benighted little corner of a world without America. May your Chinese overlords be merciful!
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (52)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
Or cholera.
"you might want to consider what the next century will be like in your benighted little corner of a world without America" - sstritt
Ask that question to the 30 million people that America has murdered over the years.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 2.8 / 5 (9)
Zeroing government funding for science has long been the goal of Libertarians and Randite vermin.
Ignorance is fertilizer for their political movement.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 3.2 / 5 (9)
Nope. Constructing weapons of war, roller derby and WWF wresteling, is much more important to Conservatives.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 4.2 / 5 (5)
About $60M per day to air condition bases in just Iraq. Obama made a big splash, $70M for robotic manufacturing. I wonder which one is more relevant for national security. I morn for our country with the teabagger's in control. I though Obama would be our man, but he can't muster even the simplest arguments against them. All government industrial policy has to be "in the name of defense". Think of microchips and the internet, both were "protected" by military uses. China's tax rate is at least 10% higher than ours. I guess their economy must be terrible. We've been running against our government since Regan ... where has it gotten us?
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 2.9 / 5 (10)
Nothing the defense department does is routine. Do you know how technically challenging it is to drop a bomb through an open window or just hit a tank? How about knocking down a nuclear tipped missile? DoD has done these and many other challenging acts with constant criticism.
If you really want the telescope finished or return to the moon or go to Mars, put DoD in charge. After all, the very successful Apollo project WAS a national defense project.
NASA since Apollo has been a political organization more than a technical one. Feynmann provided significant insight in his own Challenger investigation.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Wait. What war?
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 4.6 / 5 (5)
But we will still be able to borrow from China to buy a ride on the Soyuz. Swell.
Jul 09, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
http://www.scienc...bad_news
"Budgets are finite. Everyone knows this except partisans in science. The $1.5 billion that JWST now claims it needs in order to not waste the billions already spent could fund 5,000 basic science research projects in space science "
"First, fund smaller projects that don't have big engineering issues and are achievable.
Second, make missions time-based, get back to 'acceptable risk' and allow NASA to shuck off the modern 'zero defects' mentality and the tentacles of bureaucracy and regulatory constraints that infect much of government-funded science."
http://www.scienc...it-80701
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (6)
It has given you a well earned first class ticket to Oblivion.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (8)
Or blowing up wedding processions, killing reporters attempting to take people to a hospital. Killing children playing outside their school, etc. etc. etc.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (9)
Each funded to the tune of $300,000.
You can't put a paperclip into low orbit for that price.
I have never encountered a Conservative who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 2.6 / 5 (10)
".. yet the vast majority of the american people is to ignorant to realize what is really happening, and which is about to explode in their faces. " - Diego paragraph 3
Make up your mind. Are Americans extremely bright or are they ignorant?
Given that they just elected some TeaTards into office who have promised to destroy what is left of the U.S. economy, I think the answer is quite clear.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 4.5 / 5 (8)
"the goal of Libertarians and Randite vermin." - VD
This is the same type of talk that enabled the NAZI socialists to convince themselves they were murdering others for the greater good. Might want to consider saying something positive about your politics rather than always posting the negative about others.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 1.4 / 5 (9)
People have unending needs and wants so there will ALWAYS be a demand side.
So the solution is to have a screwed up govt take more wealth and waste that?
If you haven't noticed Iran is building nuclear missiles that can reach Europe and the USA. I agree, the US should cut military funding and just defend the USA. Europe seems to want to return to Islamic Sharia law. If they don't what Iran to help process along, Europe can defend itself from Iran and Russia.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 2.7 / 5 (7)
Competent to do what?
Do you think the federal govt is too big? Do you want a competent govt to write thousands of pages of new regulations every year, and selectively enforce them?
Why not support the idea embodied in the US Constitution? Limit the power of the federal govt as its authors intended.
Just heard, govt mandated calorie counts on restaurant menus have no impact upon what people eat. But the customers still pay for an ineffective govt regulation.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
The only reason these resources are dwindling is the US govt bans anyone from pumping more KNOWN oil reserves and the govt increases the costs of building new refineries to make that gasoline.
The 'dwindling' is artificial.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 1.4 / 5 (9)
That's all a 'liberal' can do when he can't make a rational point.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
'Liberals' keep trying to impose socialism and it fails to create prosperity, every time. As Al noted above, that's insanity.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 3.9 / 5 (7)
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
More anti-religious BS.
Too bad those atheist, 'liberal', 'intellectuals' can't accomplish engineering projects on time and budget. Even the democrats want to waste the money somewhere else to buy votes.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
If space were made of 1 x 10^-30 per centum pure gold, however -well, it would hardly be possible to EVER appropriate ENOUGH funding for the NASA mission.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (8)
Who is cutting the program, CONGRESS, one of the three branches of the federal govt that has the authority and responsibility to collect and spend the taxes it confiscates.
So Cali wants Northrup Grumman and Ball Aerospace among the dozens of other contractors to lobby to keep wasting billions of borrowed dollars?
You 'liberals' keep complaining about how corporations control Congress and now you complain that corporations do NOT control Congress to support YOUR pet programs.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (4)
Ain't it a BITCH?
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
For you.
I am the only one here who supports limiting the power of the state. By limiting the state's power corporations (or universities) have no need to bribe politicians.
Jul 10, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
So that's why you feel compelled to whine about my viewpoint? Because you are so attuned with the corporate power structure? I suppose that, in any event, they would still feel it necessary to pay you?
Jul 11, 2011
Rank: 1.5 / 5 (6)
It is the 'progressive' that demands more govt power, which some corporations support as they can use that power to squash their competitors. It's been happening since the creation of the FDA.
It is so amusing to observe the 'progressive' whine about corporate influence in govt then advocate for more state power just as the corporate power structure wants. They should read De Tar Baby.
BTW, here is another big science project to waste money on. Fusion has been 30 years away for 60 years.
"But an abundant, safe and clean energy source once thought to be the stuff of science fiction is closer than many realize: nuclear fusion. Making it a reality, however, will take significant investment from the government at a time when spending on scientific research is under threat. "
http://www.nytime...=opinion
Jul 11, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
Generalizing all Americans is the same logic radical Islam uses to defend attacks on the innocent. Just saying.
I'm with all of you on your hatred of the wars. However, you are all wrong on the AC issue. It's necessary. If you haven't spent a night in the desert where temps stay above 36C all night, then you have no understanding of the reality of the situation and your opinion is therefore less than worthless. Find some other war issue to be outraged about. AC is the wrong one, and you all come off as extremely ignorant and intellectually lazy for polemic reasons.
Jul 11, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
Isn't that why you all voted for Obama?
Jul 11, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
No.
I voted for Obama to end the failed social experiment called "trickle down economics".
I voted for Obama with the hope that he would re-regulate the financial industry and stop the reign of the speculators on the commodity markets and on Wall Street.
I voted for Obama to prevent the corporate money grab that the Republicans call "privatization of Social Security".
I voted for Obama with the hopes of one day having single payer health coverage in America.
I voted for Obama so that the people could retake the Supreme Court majority from the pawns appointed by big business interests.
Hopefully we can use the current budget crisis to reevaluate NASA and build a stronger, leaner, more efficient agency to further our exploration of space. JWST might not make the cut.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
Will you vote again for Obama's socialist policies? They are working so well.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (5)
What failing policies were those again?
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
I was raised a Democrat and Mr Carter's incompetent adminstration convinced me that was not the way to go, so I tried the Republican party even though I disliked the religious right. George W's bone-headed administration showed me they can't get it right either. So, now I'm an independent because the various parties keep changing their platforms and who they are in bed with. More than ever you must judge the individual and their record.
We get the government we deserve.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
Ever hear of Obamacare or that Obama started a war in Libya?
"Ronald Reagan understood this well, which is why his question at the end of his only debate with Jimmy Carter was so devastating:
"When you make [your decision to vote next Tuesday]," he said to the American people, "it might be well if you would ask yourself: Are you better off than you were four years ago? Is it easier for you to go and buy things in the stores than it was four years ago? Is there more or less unemployment in the country than there was four years ago? Is America as respected throughout the world as it was?""http://online.wsj...194.html
The answer in 2012 will be NO!
"An Unemployment Report That Screams Spectacular Failure"
http://blogs.forb...failure/
Obama has played a lot of golf and taken many vacations.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Bush was not a conservative.
More data documenting the failure of central planning (aka 'progressivism'/socialism):
"Despite massive investments of money, effort, and ingenuity, our ability to predict human affairs is impressive only in its mediocrity. With metronomic regularity, what is expected does not come to pass, while what isnt, does. "
"Natural science has discovered in the past half-century that the dream of ever-growing predictive mastery of a deterministic universe may well be just that, a dream."
"It follows that we also need to give greater consideration to living with failure, uncertainty, and surprise. "
http://www.cato-u...norance/
"
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
I'd call it an explanation, rather than an excuse, but why shirk from the truth?
Really need to go there? You really think that energy prices and OPEC didn't have anything to do with it? Don't toss out red herrings and expect anybody to listen.
Yeah, because the president was ultimately responsible for the success of a military operation? Reagan manipulated that crisis to get elected. Dirty politics.
Do some more homework. Carter wasn't incompetent. Just not a salesman.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Really? You too with the Carter administration? Why do you think Carter was able to get elected? Because the previous Republican administration was such a train wreck. He walked into a nightmare and got bushwhacked by OPEC and then again in Iran.
Again, Obama was handed a plummeting economy caused by the neo-cons. He has made great strides to improve the situation, but the foundation was so weak because of the total devastation wreaked by Bush that it is going to take time. We are moving in the right direction.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (5)
Yeah, so the answer is to step back and let chaos reign? What happens when the evidence we already have that free markets don't self regulate effectively proves true? What then when you have dismantled the government and there is no safety net? What do we do when the corporate overlords start polluting and destroying us? Revolution? What then?
Your libertarian fantasy world doesn't exist. The real world doesn't work the way you dream it would. Market controls need to be supported by regulation and a strong federal government. More transparency and election reform are necessary.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 4.8 / 5 (4)
Failure? Like a dead planet? Like thousands of people being killed by unsafe products before "market corrections" can punish the bad companies?
Uncertainty? Like not knowing whether somebody with more money and resources is going to like your property and take it from you? Like not knowing whether the products you buy are going to kill you? Like not knowing whether the company you work for is killing you everyday when you go to work without any threat of punishment/recourse by you?
Surpise? Like Surprise, you're dead? HA OPEN YOUR EYES! (nod to Patton)
How about a stable federal government looking out for the American people? How about transparency and election finance reform so we better understand motivations driving our elected officials? How about a progressive tax policy that promotes reinvestment rather than hording and offshoring?
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
"The Crystal Cathedral, seeking a way to resolve its debt woes, will sell its church and 40-acre campus for $46 million to an Orange County developer, according to the federal bankruptcy plan filed Friday.
"Only a portion of the 550 creditors listed in the filings were designated as eligible for full repayment. The California megachurch plans to pay back any remaining vendor debt over the next 42 months.
"...Sheila Schuller Coleman, the founder's daughter, will receive a salary of around $70,000 a year.
"A chief financial officer will be hired by the church and receive a salary of no more than $300,000 a year..."
-etc. Big drop from what sheila and other leeches were making.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 2.7 / 5 (3)
How about we simply follow the money? For instance, who has received how much from the financial and banking sector from 1989 to 2008?
#1) Hillary Clinton (D-NY) $31,040,714
#2) Barack Obama (D) $27,942,613
#3) John McCain (R) $26,593,411 (Absent from the vote)
#4) John Kerry (D-Mass) $19,094,828 (Voted for deregulation)
#5) Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn) $13,204,556 (Voted for Dereg)
#6) Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) $12,795,946 (Voted for Dereg)
"The bill passed handily with bipartisan support in both the House of Representatives and Senate, 450-64 between the two chambers." This a "Conservative Recession" when both parties created it?
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (1)
We agree on 3 out of 4. 75% isn't so bad. I happen to think that progressive tax policies promote offshoring. Tax and policy instability promote hoarding. If we don't know how stable the economy will be we horde our money. If you tax me too much and I can figure out how, my money is going elsewhere to be sheltered from the government's abuse of what they forcefully take from me. Do you really think its not just a game to the liberal and conservative billionairs alike who can afford to play the system? I'd rather have consistant and set tax rates with zero deductions unless you are at or near the poverty level. No favoritism, no other special deals, no other exceptions.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 4.8 / 5 (6)
Crazy libertarians want government to go away, but that will only lead to chaos. Free market self regulation will destroy the world economy and this planet. There are too many people in it only for themselves and technology enables them to do great harm even with government protections in place.
The answer is transparency, campaign finance reform, intelligent regulation, and bolstering enforcement. Dems and Reps are both guilty. But the "conservatives" aren't changing course.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
Progressive tax policies have never promoted offshoring. Cheap labor and government incentives have promoted offshoring. Higher marginal tax rates have historically lead to higher rates of reinvestment, to keep from paying taxes.
Look at the last 10 years. In the 90's the top 1 percent earned 16% of all income in the US. In 2010 it was 23.5% Where were the jobs? The top 1 percent owns more wealth than the bottom 90%. Where are the jobs? Why wouldn't you tax corporations and high wage earners? They rely upon the government services and infrastructure to make their money more than anyone.
How is it that Exxon Mobil and GE paid NO TAXES in 2010. It needs to get fixed while we still have something the multinational corporations want: consumers. Pretty soon China and the rest of the world will make us irrelevant if we keep on the same path.
Jul 12, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
You prioritize your future goals and spend your R&D budget developing the enabling technologies that support those goals. When your R&D has provided enough knowledge about the enabling technologies to build a device, then you ask for the money to build it. At that point, you should not be breaking new ground. You should be leveraging your R&D and should be in a position to provide an accurate estimate of cost and time to build. The fact that it has not been built before is mitigated by the R&D that created the technologies that make it possible to build. The cost and time to learn about the unknowns and develop the required technologies is buried in the R&D budgets of the past, not as part of the build project itself.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (5)
The JWST project has expanded so much beyond its initial scope it is ridiculous. They have piled on more and more capabilities since the $1.5bn estimate that it isn't even close to a fair comparison. Its like saying you were going to buy a bicycle to get to work, changed your mind and opted for a motorcycle and now you are all upset because your initial cost estimate was so far off.
Beyond that, the procedures behind the design, construction and launch that NASA is imposing on the project have also changed dramatically.
If the project has to be delayed for economic reasons, delay it. But the piling on about the cost change needs to be more objective and at least mention that the project is much more than initially proposed.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
I was speaking in generalities in response to Vendicar's assertion that predicting the cost of something that has never been built before is difficult and was trying to illustrate how you go about doing that so that you don't go way over budget when you ask for the money to build a thing.
Scope creep is a form of mismanagement and is an easy trap to fall into. It is`easy to justify adding new capability during design, but you must resist if you hope to complete the project.
Policy changes can kill a project. All the more reason to avoid scope creep and get the thing built. The longer the delay, the greater the chances of policy changes having a negative impact.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
NASA changed it's short lived philosophy of quick and dirty missions. Hopefully the tough decisions with JWST will be a delay and/or paring down and not junking it.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
This can be a great motivator, but can also cloud judgement if used as the rationale to constantly change the scope to make something bigger and better. Change the scope once and people will generally understand. Perhaps new information not known at the time it was designed rendered some of the mission obsolete or demanded a change to make the original mission viable once again. Change the scope more than once, and people begin to question credibility - especially those people who are in charge of the money and not invested in the history of the project or its promise to deliver new discoveries.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
The fall-out happened on George W's watch, but the fire was lit on uncle Billy's watch. Both main political parties stink to high heaven in my opinion. It's just that when people castigate just one party they are apparently ignoring the tomfoolery of their favorite one. I hold both parties accountable because I know that no single party has a lock on the laws that are passed and the more these self serving political jackalopes keep fooling around with a system of governance that once worked the worse off we become.
I'd rather see billions spent on JWST than on arts and other feel-good projects. A byproduct of projects like JWST is that it supports science and engineering and represents technical progress. A large part of that money is re-injected back into our economy through payroll and parts.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
We need to hold Managers accountable for their projects and their budgets (It's your money and mine!). I know when I worked for Alcoa if your capital project went 10% over budget, well, lets just say life became uncomfortable and far more complicated. Personally I never exceeded 9.76% over budget and I was sweating that. Accountability is the key to responsibility. Our lawmakers, who have stewardship over our economy seem to not remember that.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
If not, then the Cato article I posted must have some merit.
As for Obama and golf:
"Obama has played golf far more often than former President George W. Bush. In his eight years in office, Mr. Bush played just 24 times. His last time as president was Oct. 13, 2003.
He said in 2008 that he gave up golf "in solidarity" with the families of soldiers who were dying in Iraq.
"I don't want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander in chief playing golf," Mr. Bush said in a White House interview Saturday with the Politico. "I feel I owe it to the families to be as to be in solidarity as best as I can with them. And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal.""
http://www.livele...71879598
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 2.4 / 5 (7)
Companies are leaving high tax 'progressive' states for lower tax states.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (6)
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 1.9 / 5 (8)
No, they do not. Data does not support your fantasies.
Of course. FORCE is the 'progressive' way. That's how socialism leads to millions murdered.
Companies pay NO taxes. The customers of those companies pay the taxes.
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (7)
"The NAS panel recently issued a sharply worded criticism of the EPAs rushed methodology in evaluating formaldehydes toxicity. The NAS found the EPAs practices to be in desperate need of substantial revision and expressed concern about the persistence of problems encountered with [the Integrated Risk Information System] assessments over the years. The NAS concluded that the EPAs criteria to identify evidence for selecting and evaluating studies are fundamentally flawed.
Read more: http://dailycalle...S301UQqd
Regulation based upon fantasies or science?
Jul 13, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (7)
http://www.sba.go...853/2016
This is the 'progressive' way to stifle competition. That's why the large meat packers wanted the FDA, to put their competitors out of business.
Large companies like GE donate to Obama and in return get regulations favoring their company to the detriment of their competitors.
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (4)
You got a problem with America also spending $gazillion on (insert titanically evil and obviously criminal American Right-wing plot)? OK, feel free to add it to the list.
I'm a space nut. Rabid. I'd love to live on the Moon. But not at taxpayer expense, and in terms of government spending, we need to cut out ALL the fat, maybe some extra muscle, and possibly a few bones.
I'll make you a deal. If you can close Congress, I get to sell California. Win/win!
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
THAT's why the economy is so screwed up.
What is the opportunity cost of that money? What if that money was in the hands of innovative, economic entrepreneurs working to create products and services, for a profit, their customers need and want?
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (7)
Europe wants to return to Islamic Sharia Law??? Really?
At which point in European history would we have been governed by Sharia Law and why the inference that the US has saved us from it?
We'll manage quite happily on our own thank you, we coped prior to the US being a super power and we'll cope quite happily if it eventually isn't anymore.
I spend a lot of time in the USA and of the many fantastic people I've met there is always the odd one now and then who believes that the US is the saviour of the entire world instead of a partner to other nations, are you one of those?
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 4.5 / 5 (6)
We can't afford to police the world, we can't afford to buy international "friends" year after year, we can't afford to pay for artsy feel-good projects and bridges to nowhere.
From a tax code perspective we also need to stop supplimenting unlimited family sizes with $7,500 child deductions. We need to eliminate deductions for charities. Also, we need to take a close look at corporate deductions with the idea that corporations making $40,000,000,000 profit per quarter ought to be paying taxes. Something is wrong when the GE's of the world don't pay taxes. This inequity drives polatization in politics and class structure.
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
You believe in some fairy tale land where companies do the right thing for everybody and if nobody is looking then the market will create a utopia on Earth. People lie, cheat, and steal. If there is no government then the rich will get richer and the poor will die. But maybe you want that. I would prefer if the masses were a comfortable thriving mass of consumers propelling us forward and not an abused source of cheap labor to line the pockets of the corporate overlords.
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
Yup. I love the NAS. I wish we had more organizations like it to watch the federal government and make sure that the right things are being done. The EPA does need to be improved. We need more transparency and active involvement in government, not necessarily less government.
Yup. It isn't fair. The big boys need to pay their fair share. I agree. But the answer isn't to flush it all away. The answer is to even the burden and improve the regulations.
Nope. You cite an example from 100 years ago. Give it a rest. This is big business corrupting government. We need to fix that.
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (6)
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 4.1 / 5 (7)
There are some major problems in this country and privatization isn't the answer to solve almost any of them. Sure, I like the idea of private companies competing for space contracts. But cutting edge research like JWST needs government support. I firmly believe that great things will come from it and projects like it.
Progressive means change, not socialism. It means making things better. The problem with the progressive movement is that it means lots of different things to different people. The "conservatives" in America aren't conservative. They are unified in their goal to squeeze every last cent out of the people for the sake of profit. They lie cheat and steal to do it and want to weaken and control gov't so nobody can stop them.
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 4.8 / 5 (6)
The answer to the problem isn't easy. But it absolutely isn't "don't give poor people money", which can be construed from your position. I'm pretty sure you don't think it is the answer either.
The answers include transparency. Campaign finance reform. Stronger ethical guidelines preventing the revolving door and lobbyist transgressions.
But most importantly the people need to GET INVOLVED and have better access to information. People with money are feeding trolls like ryggy the nonsense he spews. More better sources need to be developed to balance the flow of information.
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Sounded kind of illiterate there.
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 0.8 / 5 (49)
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
Ryggy, good points.
In response to the first part, YES. So the answer is to wake our elected officials up and remind them as well as electing better representatives that understand better how to do their job and who are working for us, not towards some other ends.
In response to the second part. Yes. All options need to be on the table. Sometimes throwing money at entrepreneurs is the right answer. Sometimes megalithic multinational government sponsored research is the answer. JWST is probably the latter. Its for humanity after all, not profit.
Jul 14, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (7)
The only way to do that is to vote them out of office. The tea parties did a wonderful job of waking up many politicians and are doing a wonderful job of waking up many more.
Too bad the 'progressives' don't want to help.
And the 'progressive' solution plays right into the hands of 'big business'. More competition and less govt IS the only method PROVEN to 'fix that'.
Then you agree, only the customer pays taxes therefore you should support the FAIR tax so the consumers pay all taxes, and, since when something is taxed, less is produced. So, tax consumption, not income. Many here decry excess consumption and want people to make more money.
Jul 16, 2011
Rank: 1.5 / 5 (6)
"Police in Georgia have shut down a lemonade stand run by three girls trying to save up for a trip to a water park, saying they didn't have a business license or the required permits."
http://hosted.ap....=DEFAULT
State regulations are used to limit competitors.
This happened to a woman who started a business braiding hair. The state demanded she obtain a cosmetologists license to braid hair.
"By forcing hairbraiders to get an expensive license, cosmetology schools are guaranteed tuition-paying students and licensed cosmetologists are protected from competition, forcing consumers to pay more, "
http://atlantapos...ing-law/
Jul 16, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Right, so the people piling up their wealth don't pay any taxes on what they put in the pile. That will stimulate the DEMAND driven economy how? The economy is driven by CONSUMERS. Your FAIR tax sound rather like a stimulus to pile wealth that decreases consumption, since you are taxing it. Taxing income leads to reinvestment. More...
Jul 16, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Consumer protection is difficult, I agree. As long as the enforcement is even-handed then I feel this is a necessary inconvenience.
There is abuse of the system by groups trying to establish market advantage. The way to fix this is with better information and transparency. License fees don't need to be higher, but I want everybody performing a service to be accountable for the work they do.
Jul 16, 2011
Rank: 1.3 / 5 (4)
How does a license ensure accountability?
There are better, more efficient solutions that don't involve creating a larger govt bureaucracy. But a larger govt bureaucracy (power) IS the objective of the 'progressive'.
THIS makes sense. And anti-socialist policies are supported by SMALL businesses as well.
Why are so many big businesses SUPPORTING the Regulatory State?
Murdoch and Koch Industries support and promote competition.
The Koch brothers operate and highly successful and profitable business. Why didn't Obama ask one of them to be on his business team? One of the Koch brothers wrote a great business book on their philosophy.
"The Science of Success: How Market-Based Management Built the World's Largest Private Company "
Jul 16, 2011
Rank: 0.8 / 5 (49)
Jul 16, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (2)
http://www.spacen...wst.html
In addition, we should realize, due the liquid helium cooling of infrared telescopes, JWST would work just a few months at the space in similar way, like the Planck telescope. It's not replacement of Hubble, which serves well for thirty years.
Jul 16, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Policies supported by 'progressives' punish some businesses and favor others, depending upon how much they donate to Obama.
Jul 16, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (1)
You know - ryggesoggysocks - informed posters [me] understand that humans require BOTH progressives/libs and regressives/neocons because EITHER mode can and will be subverted and thus will inevitably decay over time.
One must occasionally supplant the other both to give people the illusion that govt responds to their entreaties, and to maintain the illusion that they have a choice. Which they most obviously do not. Only democracy enables this danse macabre to occur.
Jul 18, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
And we need a majority in the middle to keep the political polar ends balanced. The problem comes in when policies lead to a gap between the haves and the have-nots. This situation moves people away from the middle to the political ends of the spectrum.
Jul 18, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Jul 18, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
This is the key. We have laws in place that greatly limit the ability of the interested person from finding out where the money is coming from. Also problematic is that a large portion of the media is controlled by parties that contribute large sums to politics. The media needs to be independent of the political process. The media needs to be digging in to everywhere looking for the story. Checking up to make sure that everybody is behaving in a responsible manner; i.e. acting as watchdogs.
In addition we need more independent agencies like NAS, mentioned above, that can watch over the regulators and federal agencies to make sure they are doing what they should be.
The quid pro quo that goes on in Washington needs to be curtailed. Both parties are guilty of it, but I contend that one side is much more guilty than the other.
Jul 18, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
The Reagan/Bush campaign is alleged to have gone around the Carter administration before the election and contacted the Iranians, undermining Carter's attempt to bring the hostages home. In exchange for holding on to the hostages, again, it is alleged, American arms were supplied to Iran. Such arms shipments began in 1981 shortly after Reagan was in office. The investigation in 1991 was shut down by a bogus alibi for Casey that the 1st Bush administration knew was wrong.
http://smirkingch...surfaces
Nixon's sabotage of Johnson's attempts at peace in Vietnam are another, much worse, example of the same election manipulating treason.
The Democratic Party has its share of examples of conflicts of interests, but I have yet to see such blatant examples of outright treason. One side IS worse than the other.
Jul 18, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
The only solution then is to limit their power, which was the intent of the Constitution.
Wow, a web-site devoted to those with BDS.
http://smirkingch...surfaces
Jul 18, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Yup. Ain't it great? I haven't read any of Parry's books, but the article is pretty straightforward. I would probably rank it on a scale of deranged to reliable (1-10) around 9. His source seems to be documents from daddy Bush's presidential library on this, so I'll trust them.
Limiting power is fine. I'm not against that. But it needs to be done intelligently. Cutting businesses free to do whatever they want with the market being the only means of control is a terrible idea. The federal government is a necessary evil in my book. You just go way too far ryggy. I think it has something to do with your fantasy of how companies would self regulate their behavior.
Jul 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
That's just semantics. Rotten to the core and rotten mostly to the core - I don't want either apple thank you very much.
Jul 19, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
To me the single greatest failure is in the loan organizations who knowingly convinced less experienced people they could take on more debt than they could actually handle. Your common consumer wants to believe that the banking loan officer knows what they are talking about and thinks they can trust them. When in fact the loan officers are getting bonuses for how many millions in loan contracts they sign, not neccisarily secure loans.
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Then that bank deserves to fail.
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Don't get me wrong. I like capitalisim, I like self interest. They are great motivators. But, there need to be ground rules to ensure everyone who wants to compete gets a fair shot. The only entity that can mediate and enforce those rules is a fairly representative centralized government. In addition, the only entity that has the means to protect the public from corporate mischief is again a representitive government. How many kids would still be chewing on lead pencils in school if not for government?
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
True. But I noticed a complete lack of concern for the duped consumer. A consumer that no longer has the ability to influence that business, do to their bankruptcy, I might add.
How can millions of misled bankrupt consumers affect the banks that screwed them over for simple blind greed? They don't have buying power. They have no ability to establish a relationship with the banks that survived, which are most, btw. Government is the only way, hence our current political mood.
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
That was the opinion of the muckraker whose family lost business to Rockefeller, but the customers buying his products liked the reduced price and higher quality kerosene his market efficiencies wrought.
I don't believe you.
Vote out all 'progressive' politicians.
But it is the govt that created the rules and won't enforce them. The central govt refuses to enforce immigration laws so the decentralized govts (states) must.
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
No. That is an unsatisfactory answer because you did not show that you understood the context of my question. In the hypothetical scenario that the market and its regulations are how you would like them to be, how does the market self correct when the consumers that are hurt have no way of changing the market due to their bankruptcy? You think consumer voting works better than political voting, right? How can this possibly work in the situation we are discussing at this time?
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
If banks did operate in a free market and were not protected by the govt from failure, they would either be quite conservative or they would be out of business.
A bank in MA was in trouble from the FDIC for being too conservative:
"A Massachusetts bank that has defied the odds and remained free of bad loans amid the economic crisis is now being criticized by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. for the cautious business practices that caused its rare success.
Read more: http://www.foxnew...SrPwEkfo
"
This bank is punished and failed banks are rewarded. Govt is great?
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 0.8 / 5 (48)
Everyone's a secret socialist don'tchya know!
LMAO!
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Sounds like a good start!
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Since when does criticism equal punishment? You sound like my wife. You failed at discussion. Try again. This time, address my actual question, instead of the exact opposite scenario.
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"the FDIC slapped East Bridgewater Savings with a rare 'needs to improve' rating after evaluating the bank under the Community Reinvestment Act."
http://www.bizjou...p;page=1
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
That's still not even punishment, anyway. What, now they have to pay 0.001 percent for govt paper? Probably not even that.
That's all still irrelevant to my question. I wonder why you are ignoring it. Oh sorry, you aren't quite ignoring it, merely attacking the opposite as a straw man. Afraid of addressing holes in your delusions?
Jul 22, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Jul 23, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Jul 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Not very capitalistic of you. Down right socialistic.
Jul 24, 2011
Rank: 0.8 / 5 (48)
Jul 24, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Of course it won't. You're a good little robot:
Like Infrastructure, Education, and Healthcare for everybody -even your old Granny, who never held a 1040 job?
Don't you mean "based upon the corporate need to fill a job position"? Are you familiar with the terms "downsizing", "prevailing wage", "underemployed", offshoring"? Hell -have you ever heard of WalMart?
What's that? Of course you've heard of them -you're a shareholder in WalMart?!?
All your noise is no more than ideological apologetics.
Jul 24, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
USSR had full employment. The said so.
Not long ago, real unemployment in the USA was less than 4%, which was considered full employment.
The unemployment rate in ND was 3.1% in June'11
Jul 24, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
USSR had full employment. They said so.
Jul 24, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (49)
Just to make this clearer, what I am trying to ask you is:
Assume automation increases to the point that there just aren't enough jobs. (Please just accept this for the sake of this question.) How would you handle the unemployed?
Jul 24, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
No.
Jul 24, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (49)
That nagging feeling you get when you consider such notions is called "cognitive dissonance". You avoid it at all costs, but it's valuable in the same way pain is. But instead of learning not to touch the hot iron, you fill your mind with numbing ideology.
So since you aren't willing to consider what would happen under a capitalist system without the possibility of adequate employment, please tell me what will prevent automation from leaving a sizable chunk of the population unemployed?
To reiterate, what mechanism is going to slow/stop automation?
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
It is a false assumption.
When there was no automation, all work was by hand, craft guilds dominated, the world economy was not very prosperous.
As automation increased, and economic liberty increased, prosperity increased.
I don't see any reason for this to stop.
You need to prove your theory.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Me either. The rich will get richer and the poor will continue to struggle.
No, you need to open your eyes.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
What is your answer for the 90%? Let the market sort it out? Pretty sure they'll just start dying or living in dirt huts.
But you don't really care do you ryggy? Do you?
We need the government to level the playing field. Enforce rules. Provide for the common defense. Maintain and protect the commons. Fund science research without a profit motive.
(btw, I do agree that we DON'T need the government to employ everybody. We need to enact policies and regulations that promote job growth. Forced labor in socialized industry is NOT the answer.)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Like cutting regulations and lower taxes?
There would be full employment in the USA in a month if Obama lifted restrictions on oil and gas exploration and extraction.
How do you automate oil drilling?
No justification has been given supporting the assumption that automation destroys employment or business opportunities.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (51)
Automation leads to a loss of jobs where automated. There is no reason to believe automation will slow or reverse. Eventually all manufacturing jobs will be automated. Service jobs after that. Probably the medical profession and managerial positions eventually with the advent of sufficient AI. It is extremely obvious to anyone willing to examine it that there will at some point be an absolute irreversible shortage of jobs.
What is done in this situation? Regulate automation so people have jobs again? That's hardly smart. I'm not for returning to guilds as Marjon implied.
Do we let a sizable chunk of the population starve? Try finding a state to ask that has tried this. You might be hard pressed.
So we're down to two options. Provide for basic human needs or... well I'll leave it to Marjon to Godwin me :-)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Technology increases faster than the ability of the workforce to adjust. Always. And its getting worse because tech development is increasing geometrically. Besides this western economies are struggling with floods of immigrants due to malthusian geometry in religionist cultures, made even WORSE by climate change.
Sure, you deny any and all of these factors or think draconian measures will fix them. So did that religionist norwegian guy. We'll see how far that gets them.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
I'm sure that, along with lots of water, we will find lots of abiogenic hydrocarbons beneath the martian dunes. Because we find them throughout the solar system. They will be extracted and refined robotically.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
Automatons need engineers and technicians that know how to think.
Our present education system and society does not support such education.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 0.8 / 5 (48)
For capitalism to exist in a world with ever increasing automation, eventually the unemployed will have to be killed. Period. Full Stop. If you don't kill them they starve. If you let them starve, they overthrow the society. There are plenty of historical examples.
So either you have to have some sort of safety net (though I'm not sure that would really be an accurate term once the majority of the population is in it) or you have to cull them.
Due to the steady march of automation capitalism will either:
1) Fall at the hands of popular uprisings
2) Kill off those who would revolt
-or-
3) Become more socialist.
Deny it all you want, but these are your options. Which would you pick?
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
Selectively cutting regulations and lowering taxes might help promote job growth, but wholesale it won't. Bush did it and it didn't work.
You are an idiot if you believe that.
No justification is needed. Efficiency is the measure of the relative amount of work a person can do. Automation increases worker efficiency. More automation, higher efficiency, fewer workers needed to get the work done. AI WILL make humans unnecessary. Deal with it.
Oops. But we know what you meant and agree; the education system needs an overhaul. But privatization, as you prefer, isn't the overhaul it needs.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (49)
They then will become their own states and we'll start all over again ;-). You can't avoid governments Marjon.
As Iron Maiden said:
"Run to the Hills - Run for your lives!"
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Heres a view of the future.
http://www.youtub...e6ugpfX4
-Dont worry nobodys talking. They dont have to. Theyre all ROBOTS. Soon youll see little robot maintenance buggys scurrying around in between. Soon these robots will be manufactured by other robots and programmed by software. SOON.
I think that is a big part of what this extended economic dark age is for; to prepare for a swift transition in the nature of your war between the states. Or the way the great depression enabled industry to reconfigure for ww2.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Frank's worries are a symptom of the 'progressive's' arrogance.
Automation will FREE people to create handcrafted products and services for customers who can then afford them.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (4)
"According to President Obama, his Administration's anti-free-market, anti-business, and pro-union policies are not to blame for the high rate of involuntary unemployment. No, instead we are to believe a root cause of that problem is too much automation."
http://www.americ...yth.html
"The belief that machines cause unemployment, when held with any logical consistency, leads to preposterous conclusions. Not only must we be causing unemployment with every technological improvement we make today, but primitive man must have started causing it with the first efforts he made to save himself from needless toil and sweat."
"In brief, on net balance machines, technological improvements, economies and efficiency do not throw men out of work."
http://www.fee.or.../#0.1_L8
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (50)
LMAO, no wonder Marjon lives in such a fantasy world.
There is a name for an economic system where very few people own exclusively handmade items made by the vast majority of the rest of society.
It's called feudalism.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1.4 / 5 (5)
They had full employment didn't they?
But of course you intentionally mis-characterized my point. With automation, the cost of commodity items drop, productivity rises, real wages rise, and new markets are created for specialty items like craft beers, specialty hand made goat cheeses,....the list goes on and on and on....The list is endless because the needs and wants of people are limitless.
Frank's fear of automation is unfounded as automation has continuously raised the world's standard of living since it began.
Once again, the 'progressive' fears what he doesn't understand and resorts to violence to assuage his fear.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (51)
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1.8 / 5 (4)
IMPOSE?
How is a free market an imposition?
Frank and other 'progressives' want to IMPOSE their vision of the Regulatory State on everyone else.
Jul 25, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (50)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
You still don't get it, do you? I've been here before with you.
I make craft beer, and I see no reason why automation cannot do the same. It's just chemistry with a little help from our friendly neighbor, the yeast. The only difference between PBR and DogFish Head is complexity and originality. Why can't this be programmed? If you don't know, ask a programmer/chemist.
I think you put too high a value on "hand-made" products. They don't buy them for the process, but for the quality. Automated quality is increasing with efficiency.
I'm not saying I /want/ this to happen. I'm saying it /will/ happen whether I like it or not. (But, just because some machine can design and make better beer than me, doesn't make it less fun of a hobby.)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
ECONOMICS IN ONE LESSON
Harper & Brothers edition published July, 1946
-A little outdated eh mojo?You left out a factor in your equation; the number of workers per unit produced drops. Real wages rise for fewer workers, you claim; but in reality more workers per job opening FORCES employers to pay workers less, as their competitors are also cutting wages.
This is what generates worker backlash in the form of unions and communism. The emergence of these organizations are direct evidence that automation makes jobs disappear faster than the workforce can adjust. This is a chronic condition.
cont
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Labor is just another commodity in the economic equation. When there is a demand for labor the price goes up. Employers naturally look for cheaper alternatives, and find it in technology. Automation is cheaper than labor. The only reason labor has persisted to the extent that it has in many markets is due to the need for consumers of the goods they produce.
But this is changing. Fewer individual consumers with more money are buying more expensive products which is driving more complex technologies. While this accelerates the pace of innovation, and is also better for the environment as it produces fewer more durable items, it is bad for the increasing numbers of people who are left out of the loop entirely.
Tech development is no longer being driven by cheap disposables. Ordinary people are left to consume only information, like those starving people in somalia with their cell phones and logo t-shirt
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
What is the 'progressive' education system doing to help people be less ordinary?
Then do it if it is so easy.
But if your customers don't want beer made by robots, you may not sell much.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
What's do hard to understand about 'free market'? A buyer and seller negotiate, agree to a price and complete the exchange. I guess this is too simple for the 'progressive' control freaks.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
"Gov. Jerry Brown signed a law Monday easing access to privately funded financial aid for undocumented college students. He also signaled that he was likely to back a more controversial measure allowing those students to seek state-funded tuition aid in the future."
-Which is funny. Brown knows I guess that the people who have the gumption to come here in the first place are better investments?
US secondary education has 2 primary functions: 1) to keep people from propagating during peak reproductive years; and 2) to teach them to be good consumers.
Population control and participation in the economy are extremely important to the continued health of western culture. Due to wide variations in acumen, most people sadly are incapable of being 'less' ordinary.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Never said I sold it. Care to address the implications of the truth I gave you? Naahhhhh. That would end the convo, and the convo is all the deluded shill has here.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1.1 / 5 (52)
"Yo, Henry Ford! Where's my 2012 Focus!" - Marjon, circa 1904
What's so hard to understand that a truly FREE market requires rules to prevent abuses, just as a free society requires laws?
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
That's a win-win in my book. I get to live a longer and happier life with my knowledge. I get to have less, but more self-rewarding children, and I get to have boatloads of fun beforehand.
Proof: Pop music and celebrity gossip.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
http://www.guardi...ing-game
-Its the new religion. Tempt the weak and watch them shrivel like poor amy and lindsey et al. Wheat from chaff.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
http://theorigina...re/3794/
Or this:
http://content.us...bnetwork
-I always like to peruse this site when searching out CEOs for my many busyness ventures:
http://www.chicag...ogallery
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Care to address the issue that maybe customers don't want machine made food?
Please tell us how you will teach a robot to pick the right grape at the right time or when that barrel of JD is ready to bottle.
Luddites have been fretting over automation for hundreds of years. Are the Luddites dissatisfied with the prosperity and wealth that automation has created? Or are they angry that their fear has no merit?
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1.1 / 5 (52)
LMAO you are calling us luddites, yet your mechanism for the survival of capitalism is that people won't want to buy machine made items even though someday they will all be better than their handmade counterparts.
Do you even read what you type?
Read: I AM NOT AGAINST AUTOMATION. I am against allowing people wither and die despite absolutely no reason for this to happen other than a psychotic need for a "free market".
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
"Throughout the history of wine, winemakers would use the sugar and acid levels of the grape as a guide in determining ripeness. Early winemakers tasted the grapes to gauge ripeness. Modern winemakers use a refractometer to measure sugar levels and Brix or titration tests (using an indicator such as phenolphthalein) to determine the titratable acidity within the grape." WIKI
Taste-testers
http://www.mohr-e...ing.com/
-Machines can do this.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
The rules are very simple. I can't force you buy and you can't force me to sell.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1.3 / 5 (4)
Liar.
Free markets and free people have been PROVEN and are necessary to increase liberty and economic prosperity for all people.
The 'progressive' Regulatory State has been proven to inhibit liberty and economic prosperity for all.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
I can cheat and you can cheat. I can hire thugs and you can hire thugs. I can adulterate your tylenol and you can adulterate mine. I can unfairly corner supply and so can you.
Without laws to prevent abuse and govt to enforce them, cheaters will always tend to win.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
http://content.us...-knife/1
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
There is no win-win here.
'Progressives' can't understand the wealth is unlimited and that aggression (cheating, lying, etc.) is not a win-win and destroys wealth for all.
Ultimately then it must be the 'progressive' who initiates the lying, the cheating, the violence in economic relations providing him with the excuse to create a govt protection racket.
That's how the mob does it, right? "Gee, it would be a shame if your store window was broken or if you fell down and broke your leg. Give us $100 a week and we won't break your leg, or window."
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
I keep pointing out that it takes an interplay of BOTH sides to make things work for any length of time. Either side will seek to gain total control and if they do so they will tend toward excess and corruption.
So youve got to have some hokey device like 'democracy' which allows either side to be played off against the other.
Obviously this sort of system has to be Managed from behind the scenes in order for it to Function properly.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
"Evidence Suggests GOP Hacked, Stole 2004 Election
"...King Lincoln Bronzeville v. Blackwell case includes a copy of the Ohio Secretary of State election production system configuration that was in use in Ohio's 2004 presidential election when there was a sudden and unexpected shift in votes for George W. Bush," according to Bob Fitrakis, columnist at http://www.freepress.org and co-counsel in the litigation and investigation.
"Evidence from the filing suggests that... the private computer firms hired to manage the electronic voting data were compromised."
"...SmarTech had the capability to "input data" and thus alter the results of Ohio's 2004 election."
"SmarTech was a man in the middle...they were designed specifically to be a man in the middle...a deliberate computer hacking setup."
http://www.benzin...election
-Either side could do this and we wouldnt know.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
http://www.washin...y_1.html
How many people in the USA do no have some form of photo ID? All states issue state IDs. An ID is required to buy alcohol or cigs. An ID is required to fly. Are we to believe the 10% of the adult population doesn't buy alcohol or cigs or lottery tickets or fly or receive welfare or....
Why are the 'progressives' so concerned about voters obtaining IDs? Why don't they propose 'aid' programs to help these 10% obtain IDs?
Of course the real purpose of the 'progressive' is voter fraud.
They can prove me wrong by supporting IDs to vote and helping those who don't have IDs, if true.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (50)
Okay, let's do this. Since your system is only susceptible to 'progressive' tampering, how do you plan to deal with this?
You don't deny that it can be gamed, just that it will only be gamed by those who don't believe in it.
To word it another way: how does capitalism prevent 'progressives' from gaming the system?
Liar.
Jul 26, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (50)
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
I know it's nearly criminal to allow this guy's crazy ideology to infect the unwitting, but it just seems like our efforts are a little overkill sometimes.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Yup, the time & effort might be better spent putting pressure on the Tea Party representatives that have been elected. Although they may well share Marj's world view, hopefully they aren't outright crazy and may be more subject to pressure as they are elected; Marj is not.
And for a last bit of unsolicited advice: I don't know what mountains you're living next to, but unless you're way down next to Mexico, grab yourself a pair of fat skis or a split-board, a set of skins, some avi gear (with a *course* if you don't have one) and get to shredding that powder in winter. You may quickly find it's even more fun than hikes and scrambles. Oh, and always bring a friend.
And it will always be more fun than wasting time on Marjon.
Apart from sharpening your eye for misdirection, obfuscation, logical fallacies, etc. it's pretty useless. If he wasn't completely stuck in an irrational ideological rut it might not not, but... There isn't even a substantial audience to sway.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Govts are needed not to make cheating impossible but to make it less profitable than not cheating. This costs money.
Computer intelligence will make cheating impossible but humans will have to give up their god-protected right to cheat before this can happen. Another reason for religion to end.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (6)
Then why do your 'progressive' socialist economic solutions lead to bankruptcy?
Frank was lying about caring for people as centuries of history show free markets have led to prosperity.
'Progressive' policies do not.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
In your eyes the utter failure of trickle down economics and deregulation as well as the destruction of the American middle class caused by our nation's free trade policies are just proof that we didn't go far enough down the rabbit hole?
And you say Frank was lying. You are severely delusional.
Progressive policies did lead to prosperity in the United States. And for the past thirty years your corporate overlords have done everything they can to raid that wealth and pad their billion dollar bank accounts. Quite successfully I might add.
Enough. I'm moving off to another thread. This one is tired.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 0.8 / 5 (48)
Since your system is only susceptible to 'progressive' tampering, how do you plan to deal with this?
You don't deny that it can be gamed, just that it will only be gamed by those who don't believe in it.
To word it another way: how does capitalism prevent 'progressives' from gaming the system?
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
When was this going on?
It could not have been the past thirty years.
The Community Reinvestment Act was reinvigorated by Clinton. Freddie and Fannie grew, a whole new cabinet post was created.
What deregulation?
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
The function of a limited govt is to protect everyone's private property. A limited federal govt won't have the power to grant favors or special treatment to anyone so lobbying is a waste of time and money. A limited federal govt is also a decentralized govt so people will have more local control of corruption, or corruption will be limited to small jurisdictions from which people and business can readily flee.
Capitalism creates competition among limited govts as well.
We see what has happened to 'progressive' govts in CA and MI and voters in WI and NJ have elected leaders who are trying to limit 'progressive' gaming.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (49)
What will prevent 'progressives' from centralizing power?
Do you deny that power has become more centralized in the US since the adoption of the Constitution in 1789?
Everytime a flaw is pointed out in your idealogy you plug your ears and scream 'progressives!' Well I'm going along with this. Tell us how your system will prevent the big bad progressives from ruining it for everyone.
What will prevent 'progressives' from centralizing power?
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
But soon this begins to tax staples and raw materials supply. More money begins chasing fewer goods and inflation sets in. Competition heats up and employers seek to cut corners in order to maintain profits. Cheating, corruption, and manipulation ensue. Labor responds to decreases in real income and benefits. This is the Decay phase of the Cycle.
Laws and regulations are passed in response to these abuses and govt grows in order to manage them. The Collapse phase of the Cycle approaches.
This is all Inevitable to one extent or another. Leaders know this. History tells THEM this marjon. Knowing that this Cycle will always lead to ruin and misery, wouldn't you expect Them to want to Manipulate it to their advantage??
Buy low sell high. Always.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (5)
Competition, well armed and moral citizens.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Adams quotes (American 2nd US President (1797-1801)
Then we agree Frank, 'progressives' are immoral.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (49)
http://en.wikiped..._Breivik
Obamulus Augustulus?
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (49)
Breivik posing in a compression garment in a photo released six hours before the attacks. The insignia on his left shoulder reads: "Marxist Hunter - Norway - Multiculti Traitor Hunting Permit"
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Something tells me that if it was not for the US and rest of the evil capitalist Western world sharing their knowledge, youd be growing rice somewhere in the third world with your dad and have life expectancy of 30 years or so.
Little ungrateful of you to kick it when its down, don't you?
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
our liveliest minds. But if we can regain that belief in the power of ideas which was the mark of liberalism at its best, the battle is not lost. The intellectual revival of liberalism is already underway in many parts of the world. Will it be in time?"
http://aetds.hnuc...9875.pdf
Of course Hayek is referring to the classical liberal, not the modern 'liberal'/socialist/'progressive'.
For a book written in 1944, "Road to Serfdom" to be #431 on Amazon's list is a sign of hope.
"Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #431 in Books "
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
"When a man dressed in a police uniform began slaughtering young people at a Norwegian summer camp last week, one of the first to be killed was a real police officer named Trond Berntsen, who for years had worked in security at the camp.
Whether Berntsen tried to stop the gunman is still being debated. But facing a man carrying multiple guns and ample ammunition, there was little he could do. Like most other police officers here, he had no weapon.
By law, Norwegian police officers must have authorization from their chief to gain access to a firearm, but they have rarely needed to ask, until recently. Violent crime has been steadily increasing, jolting a society used to leaving doors unlocked and children to play without fear."
http://o.seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2015728616_norway26.html
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 0.7 / 5 (47)
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
They chose not to adopt. Were they racist or did they just want to have children that may look like them?
Norway and Sweden have opened their doors to third world immigrants who have not assimilated to their culture.
"Although it is not stated, most of the immigrant perpetrators are Muslims. In one of the rare instances where the Swedish media actually revealed the truth, the newspaper Aftonbladet reported several years ago that 9 out of 10 of the most criminal ethnic groups in Sweden came from Muslim countries. "
http://www.brusse...node/938
In the USA, the US govt is failing to control immigration and states that try are being attacked.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 0.9 / 5 (49)
What's that thing you keep harping on... government monopoly of violence, that's right. So now socialists are bad for NOT trusting their government? I can't even muster a chuckle.
That's awfully nice of you to justify Mr. Breivik's actions for him.
Are you a marxist-hunter too?
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
crimes: No, we just see some Swedes that look rich or have nice mobile phones and then we rob them.
http://www.brusse...node/938
Frank:
Norwegian govt doesn't trust their people to have any weapons either. The govt confiscates metal cowboy boot tips from returning tourists.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
http://www.brusse...node/938
This was written in 2006 and once again demonstrates the failure of 'progressive' policies and prescience of conservatives.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
She raised a family in the city of Malmo, and for the next six decades lived happily in her adopted homeland - until last year.
In 2009, a chapel serving the city's 700-strong Jewish community was set ablaze. Jewish cemeteries were repeatedly desecrated, worshippers were abused on their way home from prayer, and "Hitler" was mockingly chanted in the streets by masked men.
"I never thought I would see this hatred again in my lifetime, not in Sweden anyway," Mrs Popinski told The Sunday Telegraph.
"This new hatred comes from Muslim immigrants. The Jewish people are afraid now." "
http://www.telegr...mes.html
Is this why the 'progressives' support Muslims, they hate Jews?
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
The immigrant issue a big reason the right-wing Swedish Democrats are the fastest growing political party in the country.
Matthias Karlsson is the Swedish Democrats' Press Secretary
"In many parts of Sweden, people are, as I said, fed up," Karlsson said. "And they're being pushed too far and they want to make a stand."
Fascist and Bigoted?
Swedish Democrats, who stand for traditional Christian values and limits on immigration, have been stigmatized by the Swedish media as fascist and bigoted."
http://www.cbn.co...299.aspx
The same happens to people in the USA who support Christian values and limits on immigration.
Jul 27, 2011
Rank: 0.8 / 5 (48)
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
A lot of words have already been written blaming the Norwegian atrocity on Christians and conservatives.
The 'progressive' press bent over backwards to not blame Muslims for the Ft Hood murders.
Why the bias?
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"He said Muslims should stand up and fight the aggressor and that we should not be in the war in the first place." He said that Maj Hasan said he was "happy" when a US soldier was killed in an attack on a military recruitment centre in Arkansas in June. An American convert to Islam was accused of the shootings. "
http://www.telegr...-up.html
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Inward altruism and outward animosity - hallmarks of tribalism. Immigration is something civilization has been dealing with since the beginning. I had lots of friends at the catholic school - they were the cool kids.
Reintegration of the species MUST occur. It is a continuous Process. The Urge to Diverge is strong and ruinous to global harmony. Even tho completely natural.
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
But it was not made easy for them. They were not given visas. They had to pay bribes and walk to get here, and they had to stay low and behave themselves. Only the most ambitious and resourceful immigrate successfully; the dregs are left with the misery and war and famine of chronic overpop.
This Formula is what has made America great. The melting pot is really a great Refinery, attracting the best for amalgamation. Europe now gets to play the Game.
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
I'm a backcountry nut. I live South Park, CO and work in Summit County. I'm 30min from Breck, Keystone, A-Basin, Copper, Loveland and 45 from Vail/Beaver Creek and Winter Park. I climbed and snowboarded Mt. Sherman (14k') last Saturday and I'm doing Rollins Pass near Winter Park this Saturday. 57 degree north-facing pitch. I'm going with a Mt.Rescue team leader/nurse. We got so much snow this year, I plan on riding on my B-day in late August. I had more than 40 6inch plus powder days last season. One 30 inch day huckin off 15 foot cliffs all day. I love Colorado. :D
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Anywho, I've already PMed you back. I enjoy talking powder more than arguments with Marjon, but PhysOrg forums are really more about the latter ;)
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 0.7 / 5 (47)
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
http://www.cbc.ca...?ref=rss
"Bond rating agency Moody's Investor Services is maintaining Canada's debt rating at triple-A, the highest possible.
The firm said Thursday the AAA rating was warranted, citing among other things, the country's "high degree of economic resiliency" and deficit-cutting efforts by the federal and provincial governments.
It based its assumption about resiliency on Canada's 'high per capita income, the large scale of the economy and its diversity, including natural resource industries and a competitive manufacturing sector, as well as a well-developed and well-regulated financial market.'"
My GOD, Marjon! MY GOD!!! Moody's, *MOODY'S*, MMMM-OOOO-OOOO-DEEES! believes in a WELL-REGULATED FINANCIAL MARKET!!!
Care for a reality check, now?
No?
Didn't think so.
Never mind.
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"deficit-cutting efforts by the federal and provincial governments."
or the 'competitive manufacturing sector'?
A govt the protects private property and promotes competition is better than a govt that does not.
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
"competitive manufacturing sector" IS in there, but isn't a point of contention with anyone on this board. (All those against a competitive manufacturing sector, please write "Aye!")
"deficit-cutting efforts" are also there, and AFAIC also non-contentious.
But, when Moody's says a "well regulated" market we all know they mean *by government* (and yes, that is actually what the Canadian government *does*).
When *you* say it, you mean "properly self-regulated". Not the same thing. So you're basically ignoring Moody's opinion on this and putting your own above it.
Problem is your version is based on an ideal impossible to achieve or maintain in the real world because humans are subject to irrational, parasitic or predatory behavior and network effects. This results in self-regulated markets only being META-STABLE. This is where Moody's definition becomes the only one that matters.
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
I prefer to aim for the ideal limited govt instead of an 'ideal' 'progressive' govt.
Jul 28, 2011
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
your responsibility to meet our rules. In Canada, the responsibility is to run the institution right."
"OSFI requires Canadian banks to hold 7% of Tier 1 capital and 10% total
capital, above the Basel II requirements of 4% and 8%."
http://www.nsi-in...r%29.pdf
There are few other factors that contributed to a more sound Canadian system.
The key seems to be that because the Canadian govt commits to being a lender of last resort, it demands banks stay sound.
In the US, politicians conspire with banks to buy votes and risk is socialized. All with the express consent of the govt.
The US economic system was more prosperous and stable before Federal Reserve.
Bad regulations are worse than no regulations.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
It's more of an area. Before CO was a state, there was North Park, Middle Park, and South Park regions. South Park has stuck in the language, I think mostly because it is an easily defined basin. There's this huge wide valley completely surrounded by mtns, that's all over 9,000' elevation. It's kinda weird seeing cattle ranching done so high in the mtns, but there it is.
If you wanted to specify the town in the show, you'd pick Fairplay, which is at the North end of SP, and the county seat of Park County. I live way up on a mtn above that incorporated town.
It's actually a relatively diverse little area. We got cowboys, ski bums, raft guides, hunters, hippies (neo and real), rich 2nd home owners, tourists, Texans, etc, etc.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Wow, Marjon! I'm actually stunned. That was was an unusually good post, and a very educational article. Lots of highly interesting stuff in there. Mind you, I DON'T UNDERSTAND how this ties into your laissez-faire market self regulation approach, but I do agree with virtually all of what the author write. I was actually aware of most of the stuff that he deals with, but hadn't seen some of it in as much detail.
I generally agree with this, but...given the context, are you saying that the US financial sector is a victim of bad regulation, whereas in Canada, fewer but stronger regulations contribute to a more robust sector?
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
"Matt Winkler, editor-in-chief of Bloomberg
News, noted 'Canadians are like hobbits. They are just not as rapacious as Americans'"
Gotta love it, eh Mr. Frodo? :)
But anyway, NOTE:
"It is also certainly clear that Canadian banks were more strictly regulated, that the Canadian state played a more assertive role in the financial system, and that banks accordingly avoided more of the excessively aggressive market practices than was the case in the US and other jurisdictions that were harder hit by the crisis."
And:
"The Canadian experience is therefore a testament to the importance of regulation and restraint on the most risky bank activities in preventing crisis. As such it is a repudiation of pre-crisis conventional wisdom favoring heavy reliance on markets and light-touch regulation."
Now, Marjon, if you're trying to say US banks should be run more like their Canadian counterparts, well, who am I to argue!
But what jives, Dude?
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
What you write here sort of comes off like what I just wrote in the above paragraph (not sure), but I don't think there is one single key; Porter describes 7 factors that work together.
I can't speak to this (maybe one of your compatriots can), but I'm surprised that you seem to be advocating for a more, shall we say, paternalistic (Canadian) approach.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
While having a smaller budget certainly means you can't do as much--meaning you're *financially* limited--I think the more important limitations stem from Constitutional powers and your Bill of Rights or our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
I don't advocate that.
Since ALL govts print their money and control its supply using banks, the govt should ensure their policies don't destroy private property.
That happens with inflation. Such recent inflationary periods in the US was in the 90s and after the stock market bubble burst the inflation shifted to housing.
Stable money means stable economic activity.
If the federal govt can't or won't keep money stable, the market will. Witness the price of gold.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
In the USA it is ~ 100%.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Well, if you are going to count it the same way you do to arrive at 100% (or close to it) for the US, then Canada's debt to GDP is ~80%.
If you count only FEDERAL debt then Canada's is only ~35%. Which is actually not bad (Thank you Paul Martin!). Then again, if you count only FEDERAL dept for the US, your dept to GDP ratio is 60%. Mind you that's not good! But it's still 50% off from the 90% that typically beings to impact overall economic performance. Mind you, Canada had to tackle it's growing deficit problem in the 90s, and you're way better off doing that in the US NOW than when the ratio gets pushed up into the 70% and 80%'s. But you're still not actually in a situation where panic is yet justified.
Seriously, it's not that America is really BROKE: she still technically has plenty in her to actually pay her bills (including, BTW the James Webb! Hell, can we donate?), it's just that she DOESN'T WANT TO!
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
So?
So what was the point to the Porter article (a copy of which I'm keeping, btw)? Why did you post it? Doesn't it go against your POV?
So what about the fact that Porter's article purports to justify government "regulation and restraint on the most risky bank activities"?
So what was the point of Canada/US dept to GDP comparison?
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Who is 'she'?
A govt only has the money it can print or TAKE out of its economy.
The wealth is owned by the individuals, not the govt.
I said, money is now the legal monopoly of govts and as such they have the responsibility to maintain its value. If they don't, they are then stealing the wealth from the people who create the wealth. Which is why they enforce a monopoly on the money.
The prime function of govt is to protect private property. Maintaining stable currency value does that.
If the govt chooses to manipulate the money supply for political power, then free market money solutions begin to emerge.
You do know the currency in Somalia is quite stable. They only accept one note and its value is the cost to print it.
I prefer the govt give up its control of the money as it is too tempting for 'progressive' meddling as we have seen with the mortgage crash.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Is your confusion more clear now? Didn't think so.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
liberty, propertythis is man. And in spite of the cunning of artful
political leaders, these three gifts from God precede all
human legislation, and are superior to it.
Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have
made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and
property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in
the first place."
"Each of us has a natural rightfrom Godto defend his
person, his liberty, and his property."
"If every person has the right to defendeven by forcehis
person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group
of men have the right to organize and support a common force
to protect these rights constantly."
"since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common forcefor the same reasoncannot lawfully be used to destroy the person,liberty, or property of individuals or groups."
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
If it is the PEOPLES money, then ALL the people need to agree, 100%, on how to spend it and how to collect it.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Yeah, well, that's a bit hilarious. You guys can't even get Capitol Hill to pass a critical vote and you (Marjon) want to raise the bar to unanimous consent of 250 000 000 adult Americans, or whatever the number is. That's a little transparent, IMO. You're craaaaaaazzzyyyyyyy!
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Oh come ON Marjon, you KNOW who she is!
She's America!
America!
America!
Red white, and blue, gaze in your looking glass
You're not a child anymore!
Red, white, and blue, the future is all but past.
So lift up your heart, and make a new start
And lead us away from here!
Govt. is also made up of individuals. People, Marj. And is by the people. You always seem to forget that.
O.k. high inflation is a terrible thing, but do complain when the price of gold goes down?You want people to be able to print their own currency? No hyperinflation there!
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (3)
Such as what?
Well., what are you still doing in New England?
Wait, wait, wait...you're serious? You're telling us that this is what you want?
YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO PRINT MONEY??? Along with anybody else? Like printing companies?
I'm sorry, I was going to say "you haven't answered any of my questions about the Porter article" but never mind.
Man, now I don't know what to say....you're mind is like an extra-terrestrial landscape to me.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Why not? What really matters regarding money is who will accept its value. As we see, the USD is falling meaning many don't want to keep dollars. And that is with the govt monopoly.
You don't get it about Somalia. The value of the bill is the cost to print it. So their is no worry about counterfeiting, unless you can print the money cheaper than anyone else.
What is the price of gold now? 1600USD, 3-4 times what it was a few years ago. This means the dollar has lost that much value.
Free market currency printed by banks has worked in the past. The key would be do you trust the bank to control its value? It would be in the banks interest for people to use their currency so they would have an incentive to keep its value.
Govts have every incentive to INFLATE their currencies.
How much does a loonie cost today in USD? Is the loonie stronger or the dollar weaker?
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
So hang on, at couple of things are clicking together here. You want to have the right to print your own money, and that ties into the monopoly on gvnt. violence thing, because as long as printing your own dough is a crime government appointed men with guns are eventually going to show up at your door.
So let me get this straight. You want to be able to have your own money, private armies, kind of like being able to set up a state within the States (or be completely independent?), with your own laws...according to anarchic principles.
O.k., so....
"Militia groups claim legitimacy based on colonial writings, particularly the Declaration of Independence; Article 1, section 8 and the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution; the Militia Act of 1792; Title 10, Section 311 of the United States Code; and the concept of an independent wing of the citizenry that enacts its own governmental beliefs."
So this is you, right?
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
The authors and signators were traitors to your king, Gawad.
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"From an economic point of view, the So.Sh degenerates into a pure commodity money, Mubarak argues. He estimates that the production cost of printing and importing one unit of forged So.Sh was US$0.03 in mid-1990s. In 1997, the So.Sh1,000 note, the highest denomination, was exchanged for US$0.12. However, in late 2001 the exchange rate dropped to US$0.04: producing So.Sh500 notes became counterproductive, and printing So.Sh1,000 notes was no longer more profitable than other enterprises. The best option would have been creating higher denominations, but knowing that they would not have been accepted by Somalis, many suppliers abandoned the activity. "
http://thinkafric...currency
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
http://thinkafric...currency
This confirms Bastiat:
"Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have
made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and
property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in
the first place."
"Customary laws develop in a country like Somalia in the absence of a central legislating body. Rules "emerge spontaneously as people go about their daily business and try to solve the problems that occasionally arise in it without upsetting the patterns of cooperation on which they so heavily depend" (Van Notten, 15: 2005). Van Notten contends that the Somali customary law closely follows the natural law and therefore should be preserved."
http://mises.org/daily/2066
Jul 29, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
http://online.wsj..._Popular
"Boston Scientific said it would pare 1,300 jobs worldwide, but similarly did not say where."
"Boston Scientific disclosed it was investing $150 million and hiring 1,000 people in China, raised fears that the company will gradually shift more work to foreign sites with less government oversight and lower costs than the United States."
http://www.boston.com/
The 'people' can and do leave.
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Indeed they were!
But careful now, Marjon, PhysOrg is a British site! Don't disrespect your hosts!
So henceforth, let it be known that I am and ever shall be a proud member of the Commonwealth!
Now, come on Marjon, sing along! Give it a try...
Cue music! (Oh, come on, it's by the US Navy Band; if they can do it surely you can too. Be a sport, lad!)
http://upload.wik...ueen.ogg
And 3, 2, 1...
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen!
There ya go! That didn't hardly hurt a bit, now did it?
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
http://www.youtub...a_player
NO FUTURE
http://www.newsma...d/404782
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
What a surprise, NOT.
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"But the strength of the Lefts analysis lies in its understanding of how the powerful have used liberal-conservative language as a cloak to secure their advantages. Thus globalisation, which ought to mean free trade throughout the world, turns out to mean a system in which big banks take the gains of international success and taxpayers in each nation affected bear the cost of any failure. The banks only come home when they have run out of our money. Then our governments give them more."
http://www.telegr...ple.html
Why do 'progressives' keep giving them more?
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"Modern governments across the Western world seem to be frightened of the people they govern, rather than on their side. Given the mess they have got us into, I suppose their fear is perfectly rational. "
http://www.telegr...ple.html
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 3.5 / 5 (2)
You are correct, my grandmother, who is in her mid 90's never held a 1040 job. Instead she and her husband worked hard and saved all their lives, going without many of the luxuries that advertizing has convinced modern people to waste their money on. She and my grandfather lived frugal lives of self reliance and self accountability. My grandmother is doing fine, living on their savings at her home in Star, Idaho and takes care of her critters and garden every year. I should tell you though, she doesn't prefer to be called "Granny", but thanks for asking about her. Should I mention that you asked when I'm out that way this September for her birthday?
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
From your excerpt above:
"Thus globalisation, which ought to mean free trade throughout the world"
-So you would be in favor of this type of globalization would you?
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"Here is a man," Dr. Dalrymple says, "behaving like this and quoting all kinds of people, some of whom I admire or agree with." But to suggest that the views of those thinkers (including himself) somehow contributed to the killing in Oslo, he argues, makes no sense."
http://online.wsj...000.html
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
"While NAACP President Benjamin Jealous lashed out at new state laws requiring photo ID for voting, an NAACP executive sits in prison, sentenced for carrying out a massive voter fraud scheme.
In a story ignored by the national media, in April a Tunica County, Miss., jury convicted NAACP official Lessadolla Sowers on 10 counts of fraudulently casting absentee ballots. Sowers is identified on an NAACP website as a member of the Tunica County NAACP Executive Committee.
"And ACORN, which filed for bankruptcy last November, was itself convicted of voter fraud in Nevada in April."
Election experts say voter fraud is fairly common, but progressive activists typically insist that the crime is virtually nonexistent."
Read more: http://dailycalle...Tc6wwZf0
Jul 30, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
"Crawford and other historians argue that most fictional accounts of the group focus on unsubstantiated myths and conspiracy theories and that recent reappearances of the Knights Templar name in Norway and Mexico are just the latest attempts to manipulate their legacy.
"The drug gang and the murderer are trying to cloak the horror of their acts with the glamour and ideals of this religious order," Crawford said."
-Yah. "ideals of this religious order" whose mission was to free the 'holy land' from the grip of evil heathens by slaughtering hordes of them.
"The original Templars' NOBLE IDEALS and dramatic demise give them "an aura of glamour and mystery," said Paul Crawford, an associate professor of ancient and medieval history at California University of Pennsylvania."
-Indeed. They and their brethern the Knights Hospitaller, roamed the mittelmeer killing and enslaving 100s of 1000s for profit and for jeebus.
-Free Marketeers.