Sympathy for the devil?

May 31, 2011
The Concordia graduate student discretely taps a rich vein of research in the Church of Satan that has largely remained an under-documented religion. Credit: Concordia University

Misconceptions about the Church of Satan abound. For many people, anything with the word Satan is synonymous with evil, conjuring up images of gory offerings and babies bred for sacrifice. Nothing could be further from the truth, says Cimminnee Holt, a graduate student from Concordia University's Department of Religion, who has published a new study "Death and Dying in the Satanic Worldview," in the Journal of Religion & Culture.

Her unraveling of the myths and distortions surrounding the of Satan shows it to be a law-abiding, atheistic new religious movement, thriving on the margins of society. Ironically, it was Holt's own academic interest in the construction of evil that first led her to choose the Church of Satan for the focus of an undergraduate paper on new religious movements. "But the more I looked into the Church of Satan, the more I saw something I didn't expect," she says.

Upsetting people's expectations was, no doubt, what founder Anton Szandor LaVey intended when he first announced the existence of the Church of Satan in 1966. A showman with an aggressive public persona, LaVey liked to shake up the status quo. And how best to trump convention than to adopt a name that suggests devil-worship but really means adversary in Hebrew?

Over the course of five years of research, Holt has learned much about what Satanists believe – and don't believe. More importantly perhaps, Holt uncovered a promising area in which to pursue her scholarship, one that has been largely undocumented. Holt has produced two undergraduate papers and a journal article on the Church of Satan. She is currently conducting preliminary research for her doctoral dissertation on the ethnography of Church of Satan adherents and on how these Satanists live their daily lives.

When some people learn the subject of her research, says Holt: "There's this immediate, alarm on their faces. I find that fascinating; that even in our secular society, where we tend to say we don't believe in the devil, even the mention of the word creates tension."

This alarm arises from the public's confusion between members of the Church of Satan and those theistic Satanists who do worship the devil. Fearing such misunderstandings, the Church of Satan has learned to shy away from exposure — unless orchestrated by the church itself. It refuses to reveal information about any of its members, many of whom are thought to hide their affiliation so prejudice won't interfere in their public lives and often highly successful careers.

"Individual members can decide for themselves whether or not to divulge their affiliation, but most choose not to go public for a variety of reasons," Holt says. "Openly divulging their affiliation could harm them."

Such a lack of transparency merely sharpened Holt's investigative skills. Through lengthy online forum discussions and email correspondence, Holt gained "a certain amount of trust from the church administrators."

Although her research into the Church of Satan allowed her access to two highly placed, though unnamed members. Their thoughtful answers form the basis of the paper.

Holt is fully aware her research to date has opened only "a very small window into this mostly reclusive new religious movement." Nonetheless, she has learned a great deal in the process about scholarship.

"A good idea means little unless you have gained the skill to support it with strong, critically sound arguments. My research on the Church of Satan has certainly gone through scrutiny, and will again, but the end result is very satisfying."

Explore further: A two generation lens: Current state policies fail to support families with young children

More information: artsciweb.concordia.ca/ojs/ind… c/article/view/34/11

Provided by Concordia University

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User comments : 76

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JRDarby
not rated yet May 31, 2011
Entirely relevant (and amusing): http://www DOT youtube DOT com/watch?v=bqMqduyzIkA
antialias
4.6 / 5 (15) May 31, 2011
Good for her. Sparked by an online discussion (in which the word 'Satanism' was bandied about) I conducted my own research - since no one actually seemed to know what it really meant.

Some of the astounding things I found:
- The Church of Satan doesn't worship any supernatural entity (and also no entity called 'Satan')
- Basic tenets are not fixed - they are merely guidelines
- Some of those tenets boil down to:
"you are responsible for the consequences of your actions"
or
"try not to act without forethought" (willful stupidity being regarded as somewhat of a sin)
or
"you are an individual - you are responsible for giving your own life meaning or finding out what you like (psychologically/sexually) and don't like"
etc., etc.

...call me crazy, but I don't find that to be the worst approach one could have towards life.

Certainly it is in every detail the opposite of what the christian church preaches. That is basically the only reason why it has the buzzword 'Satan' in its name.
gunslingor1
4.3 / 5 (12) May 31, 2011
Geezz.... how about telling us a little bit about the church? This site keeps doing this, they're stories are focused around telling people that someone is researching something, without giving any information about the freaking research... which is useless from a readers point of view and a copout from a journalistic point of view.
krundoloss
4 / 5 (4) May 31, 2011
I agree Gunslingor1, too many times these articles are hollow. Saying "Someone is researching this thing and found out some stuff". Its as though the article was written by someone who has not read the related information. But Hey, we cant just expect world-class news articles for free, now can we? People must be paid to do a really good job and sometimes online ads just dont produce enough revenue for more detailed and thorough articles. Thanks to antialias for actually providing some supporting information.
Personally that Satanism sounds pretty good. I feel the ultimate fallacy of any religion is being inflexible, unchanging, rigid. If the world is always changing, shouldnt your religion change with it? Duh!
LindaPP
not rated yet May 31, 2011
I hope she understands the splits within the "church" and the time element. Anton LaVey's practices changed over time, such as his getting out of the BlackMass show business. After his death, the church and it's offshoots don't necessarily follow his beliefs.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (10) May 31, 2011
Church of Satan basically has the same tenants as most main stream churches like the Congregational and United churches.

Actually since I'm someone who likes people to be honest, I have no problem with Satanist Church if they actually believe in Satan. Otherwise, they are like many churches today such as the Congregational and United who say they are a Christian denomination, but they don't believe in the basic tenants of Christianity, including Jesus.

Same thing as Agnostics Vs Atheists, I have far more respect for Atheists. Atheists say there is no God, Agnostics don't care about God but are too cowardly to say there is no God, just in case there is a God.

Krundoloss, I would agree with you regarding religion if you feel the religion you practice isn't real. If it isn't real to you feel free to change it however you want. But you would be a hypocrite for following it. But if you believe it to be real, then it wouldn't change. Also, if there is a real religion/God, then its/there tenants wouldn't change either.
dirk_bruere
5 / 5 (7) May 31, 2011
Just what we need - politically correct Satanism
Shakescene21
5 / 5 (5) May 31, 2011
This piece is not science. This is merely Religious Studies masquerading as "social studies". What is it doing on this site?

ladylane1
not rated yet May 31, 2011
Linda PP:I hope she understands the splits within the "church" and the time element. Anton LaVey's practices changed over time, such as his getting out of the BlackMass show business. After his death, the church and it's offshoots don't necessarily follow his beliefs.

krundoloss :
Personally that Satanism sounds pretty good. I feel the ultimate fallacy of any religion is being inflexible, unchanging, rigid. If the world is always changing, shouldnt your religion change with it? Duh!
< Exactly why the Church of Satan is so appealing, it changes with the world
Gilbert
5 / 5 (7) May 31, 2011
"This piece is not science. This is merely Religious Studies masquerading as "social studies". What is it doing on this site?"

I actually think it's worthwhile being on this site, as us who are science inclined ( just with anyone else ) will tend to choose the news we want to hear and block out other news. This kind of article keeps us informed about other aspects of life, while at the same time keeping it brief and not too heavy, perhaps because they know that it's not exactly what we're on physorg to read, but it's still something we should know, in order to give us context incase we come across something about this later on in our lives :/
frajo
4.1 / 5 (7) Jun 01, 2011
Agnostics don't care about God but are too cowardly to say there is no God, just in case there is a God.
Your attribution of cowardice is erroneous. Agnostics (you know, it's Greek for "someone who doesn't know") are those that have the cojones to admit their lack of knowledge with full certainty. It's a matter of honesty, not of bravery.
Which is not meant to suggest dishonesty in non-agnostics as long as they accept that their belief systems are non-falsifiable.
gmurphy
5 / 5 (4) Jun 01, 2011
meh, just one more religion I'm going to ignore.
impZ
5 / 5 (1) Jun 01, 2011
A very ambiguous article . Satan (Hebrew:ha-Satan), "the accuser", is the title of various entities, both human and divine, who challenge the faith of humans in the Hebrew Bible.(wiki)So basically if its not ONE's religion there is NO religion , only false acusations . This smells fishy , and it does so for quite some time now (couple of millenniums). Considering that human beliefs contour reality - wrong beliefs = wrong reality. GOD's BIBLE , for the single fact of accusation , is in fact the wrong ideea.
Javinator
3.1 / 5 (8) Jun 01, 2011
Same thing as Agnostics Vs Atheists, I have far more respect for Atheists. Atheists say there is no God, Agnostics don't care about God but are too cowardly to say there is no God, just in case there is a God.


Belief is not a choice. Choosing to follow the tenets of a religion is a choice, but whether you actually believe in it is not.

Belief is based on the evidence on is presented and the conclusions that are drawn in the mind based on that evidence.

Agnostics tend to see the existence of a deity as unfalsifiable. As such, there is no evidence to support the existence or presence of a deity definitively. Because of this agnostics don't believe in a deity either way. It has nothing to do with cowardice.

Also, remember that an agnostic can hope for the existence of a deity (or lack thereof), but there's a big difference between hope and belief.
jjoensuu
not rated yet Jun 01, 2011
Actually since I'm someone who likes people to be honest, I have no problem with Satanist Church if they actually believe in Satan. Otherwise, they are like many churches today such as the Congregational and United who say they are a Christian denomination, but they don't believe in the basic tenants of Christianity, including Jesus.


hmm yea although makes me wonder if in Satanism it is "the right thing" to believe in Satan. I mean, at least from Jesus we have the statements that indicate that he wanted us to believe him (and more importantly, show that in how we live our life) but from Satan we have not heard anything about whether he wants us to believe him. Maybe he does not care a !@#$% about that.

Although, since this now is Satanism, maybe they want to rebel against everything...even Satan:-P
Atomicat
2.7 / 5 (3) Jun 01, 2011
Although, since this now is Satanism, maybe they want to rebel against everything...even Satan:-P


"What are you rebelling against?"
"What have you got?"
- The Wild Ones

Black leather jackets and motorcycles are cool. Religion on the other hand, is bollocks. I've better things to do with my time, like working on my hog and reading articles about real science.
antialias
4 / 5 (3) Jun 01, 2011
Although, since this now is Satanism,

As noted Satanism does not include a concept of supernatural entities and also no entity/force which is called Satan.

Satanism is called Satanism to signify that it is all the christian church/belief is not. Nothing more.
Negative
5 / 5 (2) Jun 01, 2011
just read the paper before commenting.

as research goes, the effort put into it is quite solid.

the scientific content may be controversial (after all, are "economic sciences" sciences?!? or "social sciences", for that matter? some people deny even mathematics the "science" status!), but the research is honest and the stuff in the article is clear, structured and relevant.

there is little doubt that the paper led to a physorg insert mainly due to its scandalous topic, but i can say i am quite satisfied that they put it here.

(Atomicat: "real science" - how lovely!)

hush1
5 / 5 (3) Jun 01, 2011
Well, I'll be damned. :P
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (13) Jun 01, 2011
...call me crazy, but I don't find that to be the worst approach one could have towards life.
So... Why does it call itself the church of Satan? Publicity?
Satanism is called Satanism to signify that it is all the christian church/belief is not. Nothing more.
Yah but Satan isn't 'antigod' it's just another deity. I smell film flam (typical religionism).

You all should realize that Satan, if he existed (he does not) would be far smarter than any human. In order to enthrall us he wouldn't act or look evil you know, he would be the kindest, most loving god we could ever want. Heck he would even promise us we could live FOREVER, in HEAVEN, if only we would do what he asked, namely resist and fight all other Religionists in many bloody horrific wars in which the children he demands that we bear are sacrificed in great heaps. So as to preserve his kind and loving goodness.

Good thing he doesn't exist eh? I've said this before but I think it's worth repeating.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (6) Jun 01, 2011
It's funny... I pulled over into a baptist parking lot to check the news and write this in the shade, and some guy comes out and asks me if I needed help. Yeah sure. I think I'll go park at barnes and noble.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Jun 01, 2011
Belief is not a choice. Choosing to follow the tenets of a religion is a choice, but whether you actually believe in it is not.
I see you got 2- 5s because of your measured response and the use of the informed 'unfalsifiable' word. Snore.

Belief is absolutely a choice. 'I made a decision to turn my life and my will over to the care of god, as I understood him.' -is one such proclamation.

Either to accept something with no proof but great promise, or to reject it and draw no conclusion, or to judge the availabe evidence as conclusive and move on, are choices. We are compelled to make them for various reasons, usually because one makes us feel better than the others.
Javinator
3.8 / 5 (5) Jun 01, 2011
Belief is absolutely a choice.


It really isn't.

'I made a decision to turn my life and my will over to the care of god, as I understood him.' -is one such proclamation.


You're not refuting what I'm saying with this statement. As I said above, the actions one takes because of their beliefs are choices. The belief itself is not.

Think about yourself. You believe there is no god. That's not a choice. If it were a choice, you could simply choose to believe in god and not believe in god and flip back and forth as you wanted to. But since belief is really based on your interpretation of the world around you, unless something changes that interpretation or new evidence is presented to you, that view won't change.
Javinator
4.6 / 5 (9) Jun 01, 2011
You all should realize that Satan, if he existed (he does not) would be far smarter than any human. In order to enthrall us he wouldn't act or look evil you know, he would be the kindest, most loving god we could ever want.


You should realize that, in one of the infinite unfalsifiable possibilities that exist, Satan could be so smart as to fool you into thinking that he doesn't exist.

I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying you made a point against yourself with your argument.
hush1
5 / 5 (4) Jun 01, 2011
lol
Otto is looking at you. In disbelief. He has no other choice.
Of course, I have trouble distinguishing between dismay and disbelief. So, maybe both are appropriate.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Jun 01, 2011
You should realize that, in one of the infinite unfalsifiable possibilities that exist, Satan could be so smart as to fool you into thinking that he doesn't exist.
Yeah so?
freethinking
1 / 5 (5) Jun 01, 2011
Otto, we agree :)

You all should realize that Satan, if he existed (he does not) would be far smarter than any human. ---Agree except for I believe in Satan.

In order to enthrall us he wouldn't act or look evil you know, --- The Bible agrees with yu here.

Heck he would even promise us we could live FOREVER, in HEAVEN, if only we would do what he asked, namely resist and fight all other Religionists in many bloody horrific wars in which the children he demands that we bear are sacrificed in great heaps. So as to preserve his kind and loving goodness.

Good thing he doesn't exist eh? I've said this before but I think it's worth repeating
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Jun 01, 2011
And so dear godlover and satanhater
In order to enthrall us he wouldn't act or look evil you know, --- The Bible agrees with yu here.
Please explain and expound on how YOU personally could ever tell the difference (you can't, and your hey-zeus fits the description of ACTION vs words very well. After all religion is what it DOES and not what it SAYS it does. Right?

And this speaks to mr javinators statement:
'm not saying he is, I'm just saying you made a point against yourself with your argument.
My clever comment could be taken to mean that 1) organized religions are evil because of the bigotry and violence they engender and/or 2) The punchline was only for comedic irony and not meant literally. Unless you chose to interpret it as such.

If violence is INEVITABLE (due to overpop) then it must be Planned for Constructive Purposes. But the people must be reassured that it is still evil. And further, that it is their own fault if possible, for not Believing HARD enough.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Jun 01, 2011
If violence is INEVITABLE (due to overpop) then it must be Planned for Constructive Purposes. But the people must be reassured that it is still evil. And further, that it is their own fault if possible, for not Believing HARD enough.
-So that the next Round will be Prosecuted even more effectively and enthusiastically.

In ottos world the only evil is when leaders are in a position to recognize the Inevitable, and then refuse to do whatever would be necessary to prevent it from endangering all that is good and right about humanity. Of which there is a great deal indeed.

Leaders who fail to Protect the irreplaceable would truly be evil in every sense of the word.
hush1
1 / 5 (1) Jun 01, 2011
Inevitability? An Otto cornerstone?
Irreplaceable?
You were doing so well, until words failed you.
Doesn't matter. After tonight's solar eclipse, a meteorite will smit and strike the Earth dead. We can't have Nature disappointing fire and brimstone beliefs.
Gilbert
5 / 5 (1) Jun 01, 2011
And what we have here is a somewhat intricate representation of the debate between the psychological schools of free-will vs determinism...so it is science after all?
hush1
1 / 5 (1) Jun 01, 2011
This is a test question. In the event of a real emergency (real event), you will be instructed to understand. See instructions for understanding after breaking the glass and pushing the button. The instructions are below the button.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Jun 02, 2011
Inevitability? An Otto cornerstone?
Irreplaceable?
You were doing so well, until words failed you.
So we are still here and your comment is as empty as your cometary threats.

Inevitability and the irreplaceable are cornerstones of ottonian theories of empire and I know exactly what I mean when I use the terms. Please explain why this disturbs you. In prose if possible.
hush1
1 / 5 (1) Jun 02, 2011
.1)I did not say when the meteorite strikes.
.2)Inevitability and 'irreplaceable' are constructs of human language. Language, of course, a part of Nature, as well. All you seek is consistency with your constructs of Nature with Nature itself.

Good luck.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Jun 03, 2011
.1)I did not say when the meteorite strikes.
.2)Inevitability and 'irreplaceable' are constructs of human language. Language, of course, a part of Nature, as well. All you seek is consistency with your constructs of Nature with Nature itself.

Good luck.
.3)And good luck to you sir with your poetic word maths. Stuff.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Jun 03, 2011
Hey! Numbers are the only words which lose nothing in translation. Except when Germans use commas for decimal points.

How about that!
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 03, 2011
Music. A most tragic 'Dasein'(existance). Music needs evidence to exist. Yes. An existence without translation as well.

Math. A most fortunate 'Dasein' (existance). Math - the only language needing no evidence to exist. Yes. An existence without translation as well.

And the Germans? All are in use.
Math, music, commas, and decimal points.

All, in the order you least expect.

And, of course, half of life is order. (Shitty translation)
And the rest we support. Your vendetta, for example.

And in the count to one hundred, the least in value of the numbers is said first.

And when you park, I know. We all do. Help was not sought.
Glad to have met you.
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 03, 2011
Let's not forget our Americans friends. They will say:
"Ass-backwards" Homophobia preoccupation. A distraction.
Elissa
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2011
Well, at least, supposedly, satanists 'say' they r responsible 4 their own actions. What they have u believing is a LIE, a HUGE coverup, by advocating they are a church of 'humanity'. There is a spirit world,contradictory to ANYTHING one thinks.Does one actually believe this cult is going to tell one what really goes on in their rituals. Spirits, evil, demonic spirits ARE called upon from their abyss. One, if spiritually aware and involved i.e. out of body experience, mental telepathy. I have had, thru meditation, out of body experience & my physical mind and body knew exactly where I was and what was happening.I saw people's spirits(saw the person,exactly what he looked like, in spirit, before I ever saw him physically & then I said, "That's him-the male I saw spiritually IN MY HOME.I have seen the warehouses they conduct their black magic in, with stainless steel freezers(dead animals are kept inside), stainless steel work tables for killing animals & directing this pain to people.
Elissa
1 / 5 (7) Jun 03, 2011
You all should realize that Satan, if he existed (he does not) would be far smarter than any human. In order to enthrall us he wouldn't act or look evil you know, he would be the kindest, most loving god we could ever want.


You should realize that, in one of the infinite unfalsifiable possibilities that exist, Satan could be so smart as to fool you into thinking that he doesn't exist.

I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying you made a point against yourself with your argument.

satan is the biggest liar & deceiver. he never looks the same, twice. he wants the world to believe he does not exist. satan had to ask The Heavenly & Eternal Father for permission to be on earth and God gave him 1,000 yrs., after which he will, once again, be sent back to his abyss & chained for 1,000 yrs. This fact, alone, proves hell will never win over Heaven.You also believe, then, that The Eternal Father does not exist or opposing forces in the universe. How naive & blind you choose to be.
marraco
5 / 5 (1) Jun 03, 2011
They would have the same right to spread his teaching to children than any "intelligent design" religion.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (11) Jun 04, 2011
Music. A most tragic 'Dasein'(existance). Music needs evidence to exist. Yes. An existence without translation as well.
Again with the stench of philospeak. More poetry for posturers. Music is inextricably culture-bound. Wagner meant something completely different to the 'slopes' in 'apocalypse now!', than it does to pretentious highbrows.

See, I like this music:
http://www.youtub...a_player

-Which is by the way on-topic. My culture prepared me for it. I think its magnificent. Your culture probably tells you that it's objectionable and crude. Na und.
satan is the biggest liar & deceiver. he never looks the same, twice. he wants the world to believe he does not exist.
But Jesus NEVER looked like the icons you guys pray at. And he wants you to believe he was something that he never was, and grants wishes and immortality which he cannot do.

I say Jesus and all such gods are the Great Deceivers.
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 04, 2011
Sounds of Stench - now as lucrative business.
Flatulence© (under copyright) Yes. Culture. You are prepared.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (9) Jun 04, 2011
Jesus was not Caucasian with long wavy brown hair. He was undoubtedly more like this:
http://relijourna...-christ/

-Or at least something like this:
http://en.wikiped..._Crystal
FrankHerbert
1 / 5 (52) Jun 04, 2011
@Elissa

I think you need to get that stainless steel plate in your head checked out.

How naive & blind you choose to be.


Stupid christians, so arrogant, so ironic.

Jesus was not Caucasian with long wavy brown hair. He was undoubtedly more like this:
http://relijourna...-christ/


If he even existed...
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (11) Jun 04, 2011
The Heavenly & Eternal Father for permission to be on earth and God gave him
In fact Satan never did anything without gods full knowledge and support. For instance god was responsible for Jobs torture and the slaughter of his family, because he just wanted to know how much Job loved him. And rather than doing the dirty work himself he let beelzebub do it. You can begin to appreciate the lengths the church fathers had to go to, to make this god appear benevolent. Or how easy it is given the fact that people want immortality so much.

The lengths some gods will go to appease their insecurity is appalling don't you think?
If he even existed...
At least we know he could never have existed the way that xians expected. So the god character wants us to believe he existed when he didn't, and the Satan character wants us to believe he doesn't exist when he in fact doesn't either. Which is the more trustworthy fiction?

See hushman, otto can play nonsense word math games too!
FrankHerbert
1.1 / 5 (53) Jun 04, 2011
Otto, you'll never top hush though because he has two dictionaries to draw from. Kind of unfair when your only goal is obfuscation ;-)

Also I'm really curious. I wonder if people like Elissa spout that kind of BS in real life or if they save that kind of crazy for the internet. I can let religious people get by as long as they don't directly challenge my beliefs (I let bigoted statements not directed at me slip by most of the time), but if I were confronted with some astral warrior BS from someone like Elissa I think at the least I would have to get up and leave the room. How do people get through their lives without being challenged on such shit unless they just don't tell anyone?
Gawad
5 / 5 (5) Jun 04, 2011
@Elissa
I have seen the warehouses they conduct their black magic in, with stainless steel freezers(dead animals are kept inside), stainless steel work tables for killing animals & directing this pain to people.
Idiot! That was a Maple Leaf Foods bacon plant!

www.mapleleaffood...on/bacon
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (9) Jun 04, 2011
I dont know if you've seen Religulous by bill maher but it pretty well expresses my brand of antireligionism. Bill says 'For the world to live religions must die.' Any religionist who thinks he can indulge his fantasies in relative safety, is only reinforcing the legitimacy of the most virulent and violent of them. If one exists then we must live with them all.

Religion is the source of all evil in the world. It is the cause of overpop and the resultant war and poverty. It needs to end before it kills us all.
http://www.youtub...a_player

A strange talk between maher and David icke:
http://www.youtub...a_player

Another hymn from the Church of Infinite Distortion:
http://www.youtub...a_player
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 04, 2011
...or if they save that kind of crazy for the internet.


lol
I am crazy enough to save the world from itself. Internet? Little things for little minds.

I have the capacity to die.
A really stupid, senseless remark!
...
For those, never born. :)

(No, sillies, not those reborns or rebirthers)
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Jun 04, 2011
lol
I am crazy enough to save the world from itself. Internet? Little things for little minds
And empty poetry for empty minds in elaborate packages? I'm sorry dude, but you evoked Dasein. You are a legitimate target. Watch out for drones.

What- well here comes one now!
ottogroupietroll
1 / 5 (5) Jun 04, 2011
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo...und so weiter
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Jun 04, 2011
Yikes that was a close one! You ok dude? Dude? Uh hush you ok man? [silence] OH NO they killed HUSH! lol
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (9) Jun 04, 2011
This is interesting. Wiki says in the lucifer article that "in Revelation 22:16 ... Jesus calls himself "the bright morning star". So what you say? Well in other locations the word lucifer is used to represent 'morning star', which is identified with Satan.

An interpretation: as bible-writers knew full well that the human propensity toward overpopulation threatened the entire world, even as it had stripped and desertified vast regions in their time and saltified the Euphrates valley; they could readily identify the ultimate source of their problem: the sun.

The sun caused the crops to grow even as it brought it's oppressive heat. These crops fed the people and caused their numbers to swell until they were inevitably at each others throats, and threatened Leaders. The Only Way to combat lucifer was to divide the people up and set them against each other. Hence religion. Priests slept all day in the cool recesses of their temples. They plotted the stars at night and dreaded the dawn.
micahgtb
4.5 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
"Belief is not a choice. Choosing to follow the tenets of a religion is a choice, but whether you actually believe in it is not."

"Belief is based on the evidence on is presented and the conclusions that are drawn in the mind based on that evidence. ".

Belief is not based on evidence. Belief takes leap of faith that is not ENTIRELY based on fact. The conclusions that are made in the mind and not based on fact because our brains cannot be trusted. It fills in blanks. That filler is not TRUTH.

dogbert
1 / 5 (5) Jun 05, 2011
A graduate student at a Lutheran University publishes an uninformative article about an un-church Church of an un-god God composed of unbelieving Believers -- an un-religious religious movement.

One might wonder why such an article would find its way to physorg.com.

Her unraveling of the myths and distortions surrounding the Church of Satan shows it to be a law-abiding, atheistic new religious movement...


Is the mere inclusion of the word "atheist" in an article sufficient or is it fascination with the concept of an atheist religion?

I suspect it is fascination with the concept of an atheist religion.

hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
Watch out for drones.

There is no greater recognition to one's accomplishments.
No expense too much. No effort too big. No chain saw ever too big for butter. No stupidity too great. The American evolution.
Predestined extinction. A case study. For religion beyond God.

Your goal is reached, when nothing approaches you in a church parking lot. Or any parking lot. That is your lot. Parking is such sweet sorrow. Whether it is nobler to take arms against a sea of me's. iPod on.
FrankHerbert
0.8 / 5 (49) Jun 05, 2011
A graduate student at a Lutheran University

Let me stop you there ;-)
Bitflux
not rated yet Jun 05, 2011
Thank you all for the entertainment :oD
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Jun 05, 2011
The conclusions that are made in the mind and not based on fact because our brains cannot be trusted. It fills in blanks. That filler is not TRUTH.
Yeah unfortunately the brain and our senses are the only things we have to understand the world, for there exists no superhuman Answerman who thinks you're worthy of inside info. I suggest you trust less in the brains of Deceivers and try to develop your own ability to reason.
There is no greater recognition to one's accomplishments.
-said the martyr. Hush is enamored of metaphysics and the ersatz veracity of lyrical wordmath. He speaks in tongues. He presents alternate buttcheeks for slapping. I think what we have here is a closet religionist.
Ensa
4.7 / 5 (3) Jun 05, 2011
Belief is a state of mind, or an attitude about something.
You can develop a belief intentionally - by choosing to believe it (some technique may be required, or you may find it easy to naturally believe it), or you can discover that you believe something by examining your own mind.
If you find yourself believing something you do not wish to, you can choose to dis-believe it if you like, however this is not always easy and some technique may be needed.
In short - belief certainly can be a choice.
I think that the wise choose to develop or abandon their own beliefs based on an understanding of the effect those beliefs will have on themselves and others.
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
-said the martyr. Hush is enamored of metaphysics and the ersatz veracity of lyrical wordmath. He speaks in tongues. He presents alternate buttcheeks for slapping. I think what we have here is a closet religionist.


And so, dear readers, Thus Spoke Otto. The worst of all possible substitutional Zarathutras. Feel cheated?
Only if you insist on the real thing.

Otto feel 'unfortunate'. Shortchanged. Only to have a brain and senses. We are all brought to the brink of tears. Those of a crocodile.
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
Typo correction in CAPS:
Otto FEELS 'unfortunate'
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (6) Jun 05, 2011
'Ersatz veracity of lyrical wordmath'. Has a rhythm to it a little bit, yes? Otto beats hush at his own artism. Artifice?
Otto feel 'unfortunate'. Shortchanged. Only to have a brain and senses.
Aber nein, I am quite happy with what I have and do not feel the need to ascribe to anything which is not there, because life has shortshrifted me in some fashion and needs augmenting. It is what it is and not what we would want it to be, however hard we wish to gods or try to extract deeper truths from misty vapors.

Physics is adequate because that's all that there IS. There IS no metaphysics. Superman isn't REAL. Get over it.
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
Ah. The Beatitudes of Physics.
It lists the type of person who is happy.

Matthew 5:1-12,
Bla, bla, bla, but then...
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in physics...
Woe unto the lesser of us, and blessed are the men of physics.
(Feminists alert! O.k. ...mortals of physics)
(Yes, agreed. Great Stuff. I do learn from it)

I put the word out. The second coming will be a physics prof.
Yes. Otto beats Hush. lol
That has rhythm.

Palin's Philly Poem.
Paul Revere's Ride.
Digressing again....
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
@Ersa
What is "state of mind"?
What is "an attitude about something"?

Before birth, I did have questions. So a few of my specialize cells got together and started rhythmic movements. Viola! I didn't have a name for that. (You call it "breathing".)

I did not need a "state of mind", "an attitude about something", a name, a label, wisdom, understanding, or choice.

I damn well had technique!
No small thanks to all those diversified cells!

So, in the beginning, there was technique (function).

"Oh", you say, "and just how does one ask oneself questions if 'technique' is the only world you know?"

That's an easy question. If the only technique a cell processes is movement, and the cell isn't dead, the question of movement is answered by technique, or if you will, function.

You object: "You can not reinterpret a cell's function as a thought process or as a question being asked. That is silly"

I reply: "You have insulted all nerve cells that have ever existed. Apologized!"
KBK
5 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"....-The Glimmer Twins aka Rolling Stones
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Jun 05, 2011
@Ersa
What is " [...] silly"
-Hushes drivel.

I reply: [...] Apologized!"[sic]
-for posting drivel.
mrtea
not rated yet Jun 05, 2011
Very disappointed in the moderator of this article. My post was on topic, but was removed (personal attack - calling someone insulting?), while other posts here clearly breach the guidelines. Apparently it's OK to write post after post of utter drivel (see above).
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
lol
Typos as 'Tarnung' You are severely limited. You only a have brain and senses. Far worst, you are happy. You are easy prey...I mean, easy to please. lol

And predictable. Your reply will be "more drivel." lol
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2011
@mrtea
Just removed what you think the moderator views as personal attack - the assertion of insult?, or whatever, and repost.
Ensa
not rated yet Jun 05, 2011
@hush1
I do not object.
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 06, 2011
Oh my! I asserted cell function over belief, state of mind, and attitude to save my 'cell theory' - the ability of a cell to actually provide, what we call in our emergent normal language - a question. I think we assign to any function a motive(question) for a function. I think we assign a motive for/to everything we experience.

Let us let the objections stand - not for you, but for anyone else that might harbor those objections.

Thank you for your (surprising) reply!
Ensa
5 / 5 (1) Jun 06, 2011
I think we assign to any function a motive(question) for a function.

Motive and function appear to go hand-in-hand as concepts.

I think we assign a motive for/to everything we experience.

That would explain a lot of what I observe in people.
Possibly a tendency without which we would not have maintained a continuum of intention (as evolving aggregates) required for species continuation. After all, in this case, assignment of intention would have come before the ability to distinguish self from environment (perhaps the perceptual line was drawn arbitrarily to begin with and then functionally/evolutioanrily refined) and would be a prerequisite for deciding between what is perceived as an action and what is perceived as an event.

Thank you for your (surprising) reply!

And you for yours / us for ours.
;)
Sanescience
5 / 5 (1) Jun 06, 2011
What a lame topic for a physics site.

And what a lame name for a church that claims they are not Satanists. Churches change their name all the time, they need to change theirs so they can stop complaining people think their Satanists.
hush1
1 / 5 (2) Jun 07, 2011
@Ensa
You held a mirror (quotes)in front me. Your mirror (the quotes) reflected back just two single sentences or statements from me.

Allow me the same action.

Motive and function appear to go hand-in-hand as concepts.

That would explain a lot of what I observe in people.



Now all readers perceived, read and see. Reflections.
Reflections translated is:
And you for yours / us for ours.


Those are my words. Those are your words. There are no better words for ...
Reflections.
Shared.
For the benefit of all readers.
(Even Otto) lol
;)