2,000-year-old nails 'may be tied to crucifixion'

Apr 13, 2011 by Hazel Ward
Simcha Jacobovici, the producer of Secrets Of Christianity series, shows the Roman nails which he believes may have been used in the crucifixion of Jesus, during a press conference in Jerusalem, on April 12.

Two Roman nails dating back 2000 years, found in the burial cave of the Jewish high priest who handed Jesus over to the Romans, may be linked to the crucifixion, an Israeli filmmaker has claimed.

The gnarled bits of iron, which measure around three inches (eight centimetres) each, were shown to reporters in Jerusalem on Tuesday at the premier of a television documentary series examining the question of whether they could have been the used to crucify Jesus.

The series is to air from Wednesday in the United States, Canada and South America, and in Israel from May 15.

The two nails were first found in Jerusalem 20 years ago when uncovered a family tomb believed to be that of Caiaphas, the high priest who handed Jesus over to the to be crucified.

One nail was found inside one of 12 limestone coffins found inside the cave, while the second was lying on the floor of the tomb.

"Two iron nails were found inside that tomb," said Israeli documentary maker Simcha Jacobovici, who presented the popular series called "The Naked Archaeologist" which was broadcast on The History Channel.

"Somebody went to his grave with that nail among his bones and nobody reported it," he told reporters.

The length of the nails and the fact they were bent at one end were both consistent with the crucifixion of hands, he said.

Since Caiaphas is only associated with one crucifixion -- that of Jesus -- the assumption is that these were the nails used, Jacobovici said.

"If these were found in any other tomb, we would not be here today."

The discovery of the nails was noted in the original archaeological report, but shortly afterwards they went missing before being photographed or sketched.

A man shows two Roman nails next to a Roman period ossuary which Simcha Jacobovici, the producer of Secrets Of Christianity series, believes may have been used in the crucifixion of Jesus, during a press conference in Jerusalem, on April 12.

During his search for the missing nails, Jacobovici visited Tel Aviv University and stumbled across two iron nails dating back to the same era, which were discovered in Jerusalem 20 years ago -- which he believes were the ones found in Caiaphas's tomb.

The theory that these were the nails used in the crucifixion, is based on two assumptions, Jacobovici admits: "That these are probably the nails from Caiaphas's tomb, and that Caiaphas was associated with only one crucifixion -- that of Jesus," he said.

"If you accept that these nails came from that tomb, given that Caiaphas is only associated with the crucifixion of Jesus, they very well could be those nails."

Asked why the man who, according to the Gospels, sent Jesus to his death would want to be buried with the nails that ended his enemy's life, Jacobovici suggested that Caiaphas may have been racked with guilt over his decision.

An alternative theory explored in the documentary is that he may have been a secret follower of Jesus who did not realise that handing him over to the Romans would result in his death.

Historical record points to tens of thousands of people being crucified by the Romans but until now, there has only been one piece of archaeological evidence to support it -- a fossilised heel bone punctured by an iron nail which was found in Jerusalem in 1968.

Gabi Barkai, a professor of archaeology at Tel Aviv's Bar Ilan University who has 40 years of experience excavating tombs in Jerusalem, confirmed the nails dated back to the first century, but said it was impossible get a more accurate date.

"Nails are a rare things in tombs from Second Temple period Jerusalem," he told reporters, noting that there was no residue attached to them.

There were several theories as to why they might have been put inside a grave, one of which was that crucifixion nails were believed to be powerful amulets for the afterlife.

But there was "no proof whatsoever that these nails came from the cave of Caiaphas," he said.

Asked if he believed they were used in the crucifixion, Barkai was cautious.

"It's a possibility," he said.

Explore further: Oldest DNA ever found sheds light on humans' global trek

add to favorites email to friend print save as pdf

Related Stories

Experts split on supposed Jesus tomb

Jan 18, 2008

Archaeologists, biblical scholars and other experts met in Jerusalem this week to discuss a tomb that might be that of Jesus and his family.

What do we really know about the crucifixion of Jesus?

Jun 14, 2010

The many different accounts of the crucifixion of Jesus find little support in historical sources. The reason is that antique sources generally lack descriptions of crucifixions, says Gunnar Samuelsson, University of Gothenburg, ...

Recommended for you

US state reaches deal to keep dinosaur mummy

Oct 21, 2014

North Dakota reached a $3 million deal to keep a rare fossil of a duckbilled dinosaur on display at the state's heritage center, where it will serve as a cornerstone for the facility's $51 million expansion, officials said ...

Jerusalem stone may answer Jewish revolt questions

Oct 21, 2014

Israeli archaeologists said Tuesday they have discovered a large stone with Latin engravings that lends credence to the theory that the reason Jews revolted against Roman rule nearly 2,000 ago was because ...

Kung fu stegosaur

Oct 21, 2014

Stegosaurs might be portrayed as lumbering plant eaters, but they were lethal fighters when necessary, according to paleontologists who have uncovered new evidence of a casualty of stegosaurian combat. The ...

User comments : 94

Adjust slider to filter visible comments by rank

Display comments: newest first

wealthychef
4.3 / 5 (8) Apr 13, 2011
Ridiculous grandstanding attempt.
flashgordon
2.1 / 5 (11) Apr 13, 2011
talking snakes, virgin births and physorg entertains the Naked Archaeologists like Simcha here and not say those who found the gabriel stone tablet showing writing of a some jew who was trying to be the messiah B.C. time. Go figure.

http://en.wikiped...velation

I've been banned permanently from the physics messageboards that Physorg has linked up to for pointing out how most people born in a christian country say they're christian and those born in a muslim country will say Allah, and those born in a buddhist country . . . and so on and so forth. Go figure.

If you want to know the truth about christianity and Judaism read "The Bible UnEarthed", "Christ in Egypt", "The Jesus Puzzle(just read this one and not Doherty's new version; it's just commentary on books written by those who give the excuse "well, maybe there was a miracle.") and Eisenman's "James brother of Jesus." Also, there's Benson's "Origins of Christianity and the Bible."

http://www.jesus
flashgordon
1.4 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
can't seem to make the link to Benson's website about his book "origins of christianity and the bible" work here; just type it in at google and you'll see the website link come up.

All those books I mention give substantial amounts of information "your church doesn't want you to read"; but, they all give an amazingling different amount of info; they're a measure of just how much biblical research has been done and can be had.
jmcanoy1860
3.5 / 5 (8) Apr 13, 2011
oh, c'mon. 2 nails? Well that proves genesis.
pt30
4.3 / 5 (10) Apr 13, 2011
I stopped reading when I got to "...an Israeli filmmaker has.."
Makes the whole story a lot less credible.
quarkdoll
4.7 / 5 (14) Apr 13, 2011
What is this doing on a science web site?
flashgordon
2.1 / 5 (7) Apr 13, 2011
XXXI. That it will be necessary sometimes to use falsehood as a remedy for the benefit of those who require such a mode of treatment(that is Eusebius Preparatio Evangelica, book 12, chapter 31

http://www.ccel.o...ok12.htm

each time someone wants to rate me without giving reasons why, I'm going to dish it;

Eusebius was Emperor Constantines right hand man; Emperor Constantine first made christianity the official state religion; he and Eusebius organized the Nicene conferences to determine which of the many gospel variations were to be included in the 'roman catholic church's' bible.

If you look the reference up, you'll see that Eusebius is quoting and referencing . . . . drumroll . . . Plato! Yes, Plato's works really are the basis of christianity(see Benson's Origins of Christianity and the Bible". Plato's Republic was found amongst the christian writings found at the Nag Hammadi library in 1940's. Jesus is Plato's'word'ofgod
Kingsix
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
This guy seems worse than Michael Moore.
flashgordon
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
Kingsix makes no reference to who he's talking to; i'll assume this is more vaguenes gaming by the vagueness gaming that religion is; Godel proves that a finite set of axioms can prove an infinity of truths if they are inconsistent; a finite set of consistent axioms on the other hand cannot prove an infinity of truths; science and mathematics chooses to be a finit set of consistent axioms; religion chooses to be inconsisent and play all kinds of vagueness games; "God did it" God is the algebraic 'X' standing for "I don't know" and "I don't want to know." Other vagueness games the supernatural believers play is "believe and you will believe". This was started by Saint Augustine back around 400 A.D. amongst some of the other vagueness games he plays to prove god's existence(basicaly, because we don't know, god exists. Don't worry, I'm going to dish some more!
flashgordon
1 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
Paul as Eisenman shows throughout his "James brother of Jesus" is a Herodian. Paul likes to welcome Herodians(and Roman emperors in general!); Now, Herod Chalcis has a son Aristobulus, King of Lesser Armenia, who's married to a Salome. Salome has one interesting spotlight in Mark 6:17-29 where she's dancing for the Herodians; the Herod tetrarch says your great; ask whatever you want; she says, John the Baptists head!
flashgordon
1 / 5 (2) Apr 13, 2011
oh, looks like computer time is up for now!
frajo
5 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
I have no idea what "flashgordon" is trying to convey. Whatever it may be, it's nothing to do with the article.
Doug_Huffman
3 / 5 (4) Apr 13, 2011
Public libraries limit their computer use to 'active users' so Gordie clatters away to maximize his time off the street and out of the snow. His "computer time is up for now" means he's back in his doorway with his bottle of hair straightener. He'll be back with another hallucidnation (sic).
flashgordon
1 / 5 (3) Apr 13, 2011
Hello Mr Frajo,

In terms of questioning whether the article's thesis is right or wrong, I suppose nothing I've said is 'directly' related; but, I've mentioned much of why I've chosen to point out all kinds of things; i mean I've tried to talk to physorg about them posting psuedo-science religion articles; they've made no responce; i've pointed out some other things already as well. I don't feel out of line considering as I've said supernatural religion is about vagueness gaming.

all that said, it looks like it's time for another post(there seems to be a little bit of back and forth; some rating me higher and thanking me; and those who I'm fighting of course!)! This one is certainly a little bit more about the cross!
flashgordon
2 / 5 (4) Apr 13, 2011
Simon of Cyrene carries the cross for Jesus Christ in the Gospel of Mark. "15:21 And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross."

Now, Paul at the end of Romans refers to these children of Simon of Cyrene, Rufus and Alexander. Paul calls this rufus "the chosen of the lord" "16:13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine."(there's much more juicy things around Romans 16 as I can see as well; Paul once again does his salute various pagans and pagan gods; amongst the names mentioned are Plato dialogue's characters!)
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Apr 13, 2011
In terms of questioning whether the article's thesis is right or wrong, I suppose nothing I've said is 'directly' related
Right so get lost. Who cares what you have to say?
all that said, it looks like it's time for another post(there seems to be a little bit of back and forth
No, youre misunderstanding. Get lost.
because we don't know, god exists.
No, we know very well, your god does not exist. Go dirty up some other site.

"Historical record points to tens of thousands of people being crucified by the Romans but until now, there has only been one piece of archaeological evidence to support it -- a fossilised heel bone punctured by an iron nail which was found in Jerusalem in 1968."

-See? More real evidence bible stories are lies. No solomon. No david, No moses. No joshua. No jesus. All should have left abundant evidence but absolutely none exists. None. Did god make it all evaporate in order to test our faith? I smell FRAUD.
FrankHerbert
4.3 / 5 (56) Apr 13, 2011
Oh no lil' Douggie has crapped himself again. Someone get the depends.
flashgordon
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 13, 2011
Frankie must be a scientiologist!
flashgordon
1 / 5 (3) Apr 13, 2011
A good scientist is someone who knows what's obviously a problem; those who don't like me fighting irrationality are irrationalist apologists; they are Eusebius and Plato's(a vary overrated intellectual); YOu are the end of mankind; you are the beginning of the new dark ages to come(when mankind encloses itself on earth due to fears of nanotech(see lifeboat.org)

You don't want to question and learn . . . get lost!
flashgordon
1 / 5 (2) Apr 13, 2011
That's why I'm doing these things, for immature people who don't understand or can tell the irrationalist problems of humanity today.

Smells like another post is in order!
FrankHerbert
4.4 / 5 (56) Apr 13, 2011
Are you a creationist or a singularitarian? I can't even tell. I'm so confused.
flashgordon
2.6 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
Diodorus of Sicily(I've lived there for two years) said that teaching people to believe in hell keeps them in line - book one, 2.2

Also Lucretius, De Rerum Natura book one, 102 - 115

Both Diodorus and Lucretius are B.C. timeframes; in other words, the mindset of making up religion to keep people in line was before the Jesus Christ invention.
flashgordon
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
FrankHerbert, all I'm going to say is I like to call myself a Jacob Bronowski 'Scientific Humanist.' I highly recommend Jacob Bronowski's "Science and Human Values", "The Origin of Knowledge and the Imagination", "Science, Magic, and Civilization", "The Visionary Eye", and "A Sense of the Future" and not his "Ascent of Man" Better to just watch the video series!

I recall trying to get Grothendieck to come to his senses; i mentioned to him; boy, typing in 'scientific humanist' in google is pretty disappointing! There's not a lot of Jacob Bronowski's out there!(i should add Ernst Casserir to that list in relatin to Jacob Bronowski).
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Apr 13, 2011
those who don't like me fighting irrationality
You mean fighting irrationally dont you?
you are the beginning of the new dark ages to come(when mankind encloses itself on earth due to fears of nanotech(see lifeboat.org)
-Like I said.{q]Diodorus of Sicily...book one, 2.2...Lucretius, De Rerum Natura book one, 102 - 115...Simon of Cyrene, Rufus and Alexander. Paul... Your namedropping is annoying and doesnt help your credibility.

Frank- I think he's some kind of custom godder. Waiting to drop the punchline. Interested in annoying people.
flashgordon
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
some people cannot be helped.

i remember a cousin of mine; she's telling me how Nasa is covering up alien sightings and so on; i'm like going to "Astronomy picture of the day", and she immediately points out that the sight is a nasa sight; "see she says, it's nasa; it's not a legit website!" Supernatural religious people are much the same way. For various social reasons(they don't have the stomach to step back and say no and criticize), they don't know how to balance and determine a good insight from a bad one; they'll throw away good because they can't see the good from the bad. It's amazing how supposedly intellectuals today also have a hard time with this.

It's kind of like the way people can learn mathemtics without the proofs only worse!
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (8) Apr 13, 2011
You know- "...and the answer is GOD! Yes he exists but he's nothing like youve ever heard. I have proof! Visit my website at www.blahblahyukkyukka.com for the TRUTH...etc. Blah blah wokkawokka. "I'm building an ark in my basement! Send money" etc.
Smellyhat
4.2 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
This article, which is clearly a promotion of an upcoming television show, does not belong on this website.

1) It is unverified supposition that these nails are the ones reported to be found in the tomb, which itself may or may not have been that of Caiaphas.

2) Supposing that these are indeed the nails which were found in a tomb that did indeed belong to Caiaphas, it is unverifiable speculation to suggest that they may:

(a) have been placed deliberately in the tomb at the time of Caiaphas' burial (an explanation as to why one was on the floor, for instance, would be needed).

(b) have actually been the nails with which Jesus was crucified, assuming the accuracy of the Christian testaments in this respect.
flashgordon
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
You know- "...and the answer is GOD! Yes he exists but he's nothing like youve ever heard. I have proof! Visit my website at http://www.blahbl...ukka.com for the TRUTH...etc. Blah blah wokkawokka. "I'm building an ark in my basement! Send money" etc.


proof; this guy's a psuedo-scientist
FrankHerbert
4.5 / 5 (58) Apr 13, 2011
He's mocking you flash.
flashgordon
2 / 5 (4) Apr 13, 2011
for that to be mocking me is like you asking me if I'm a creationist or singularitan.
FrankHerbert
4.4 / 5 (54) Apr 13, 2011
lol whatever flash believes at least he's entertaining.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Apr 13, 2011
Supernatural religious people are much the same way.
...as opposed to Bronowskian humanistical religious people, who believe god is completely rational like we are. Or somesuch. Come on flash, whats the punchline! Just post the link already and get it over with. Youve lost the drama buildup. This reminds me of an Amway spiel.

Re; the article, I think st helen got all the good collectibles from jerusalem except for whatever the hospitaliers brought back, so this guy might have to use ebay- and pray-
MorituriMax
4 / 5 (2) Apr 13, 2011
As the Subway commercial would say, "Big Whoop."
CapitalismPrevails
1.7 / 5 (6) Apr 13, 2011
I can understand why this would make the Physorg atheist readers go bonkers.
FrankHerbert
4.4 / 5 (58) Apr 13, 2011
A couple of nails don't prove jesus existed let alone his supposed divinity. Keep projecting your insanity onto others.
rynox
5 / 5 (2) Apr 13, 2011
Yes, the scientific community absolutely loves mindless speculation. Thank you.
PinkElephant
3 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2011
@Otto,

You can't be serious. flashgordon is clearly every bit as skeptical and anti-religion as you (except he doesn't appear given to wild multi-millennial secret society global conspiracy paranoia, like you...) If you've been trying to make a joke, it's well past time for YOUR punchline...
RobertKarlStonjek
4.7 / 5 (9) Apr 14, 2011
Electron microscopic examination of the nails will no doubt confirm the presence of horse shit.
Mercury_01
4.6 / 5 (9) Apr 14, 2011
I like how they expect us to stay on topic and make disciplined scientific comments, and then they throw articles like this in the ring for us to shank each other over.
exploderator
4.6 / 5 (9) Apr 14, 2011
The presence of this "news article" on Physorg is very disappointing. As a long time lurker here, and someone who has greatly appreciated the SCIENCE news, I have a simple request:

Please keep this site free of religious nonsense.

I also caution you that the trend of including tech marketing articles is disappointing. A 23" tablet computer up for potential release IS NOT science news, and a million other web sites cover the topic much better anyways (they have useful editorial insights and longstanding relevant industry involvement, unlike Physorg).

So, to repeat: Don't waste Physorg's reputation on religious nonsense and tech marketing trash.
MarkyMark
1 / 5 (1) Apr 14, 2011
Err yea so i guess archiology has different standards over there if two nails could be some form of proof. I was digging in my garden earlier and found a broken bottle, is this proof that moles are making glass bottles?
Quasi_Intellectual
1 / 5 (1) Apr 14, 2011
MarkyMark:
Of course not, silly. They are only drinking from them. The bottles are made by gnomes, and filled with elven moonshine.
Just ask flashgordon, it is clearly stated on his website.

And yes, this article belong elsewhere. Bring the SCIENCE!
DarwiN100
1 / 5 (1) Apr 14, 2011
Common physorg, since when are you promoting narcissistic crackpots like this, selling their wishful thinking theories to Jesus freaks?

Whats next? That boy selling a book (now a best selling book) describing how he went to heaven?
Skeptic_Heretic
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 14, 2011
What is this doing on a science web site?

Fishing for page views.
I like how they expect us to stay on topic and make disciplined scientific comments, and then they throw articles like this in the ring for us to shank each other over.
Yeah I'm sick of it too. Time to just report the fundies for pseudoscience and move on.
ZephirAWT
Apr 14, 2011
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (4) Apr 14, 2011
@Otto,

You can't be serious. flashgordon is clearly every bit as skeptical and anti-religion as you (except he doesn't appear given to wild multi-millennial secret society global conspiracy paranoia, like you...) If you've been trying to make a joke, it's well past time for YOUR punchline...
Perhaps youre right and this has occurred to me, but he's had many opportunities to flat-out deny it by saying 'god doesn't exist' or some agnostic waffle buttcover like you all like to do, but he hasn't done so. I suspected a buildup.
I've been banned permanently from the physics messageboards that Physorg has linked up to for pointing out
-I read this and jumped to conclusions. Paul- and philo-quoting are other cues although I do it too. I just think that Paul was probably a Group effort, like the rest of it.

I do not foist conspiracy madam; I merely present things the way they are. Obviously. And those things are necessarily and entirely Human.

Empire lives! <:-0
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Apr 14, 2011
So, to repeat: Don't waste Physorg's reputation on religious nonsense and tech marketing trash.
Religionists will show up to spout about anything and everything on this site, as evidence for god and the need to stop examining his works too closely. This attitude can be found in our schools and in the media. Politicians will use it to get elected and try to restrict funding for research.

Confronting religionists is I feel a duty and a right. Doing so serves a purpose. One can skip over the arguments, have independent dialogue in the same thread, or skip the article entirely. Or one can fight the good fight and learn things and shed some of their own misconceptions at the same time. Yes?
Donutz
2.5 / 5 (2) Apr 14, 2011
No, we know very well, your god does not exist. Go dirty up some other site.


@TheGhostofOtto1923

Hey, am I on drugs or are you? Granted flash is a bit of a ranter, but he looks to be ANTI-theist, not PRO. He's definitely got a pickle up his butt about something, but there are some good nuggets of info in what he's posting, if you can wade throught the dross. Plus as a side benefit, kevinrts and QC get to see what they sound like 'from the other side'. Except they use far fewer checkable facts.
Donutz
4.2 / 5 (5) Apr 14, 2011
Confronting religionists is I feel a duty and a right. Doing so serves a purpose.


Completely agree with this statement. Theists in general and creotards in particular seem to think they can establish credibility for their fantasies by simple repetition. Like the old saying says, "In order for evil to triumph, all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing." If we let the creotards slide, they will establish seeming credibility, and the next thing you know they'll be teaching their delusions in our schools again.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Apr 14, 2011
No, we know very well, your god does not exist. Go dirty up some other site.


@TheGhostofOtto1923

Hey, am I on drugs or are you? Granted flash is a bit of a ranter, but he looks to be ANTI-theist
Well I explained my suspicions above. Let flash return and explain hisself in less vituperous terms. I can always appreciate a new slant on antireligionism... if that was his intent.
creotards in particular seem to think they can establish credibility for their fantasies
"we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender..."
El_Nose
5 / 5 (1) Apr 14, 2011
@ Everyone

there is no comment here from QC or kevin --- ???
exploderator
3 / 5 (4) Apr 14, 2011
Religionists will show up to spout about anything and everything on this site, as evidence for god and the need to stop examining his works too closely...(and the rest)...Yes?


Absolutely Yes. The systematic rebuttal of religious nonsense is one of the most important works that humanity needs to accomplish, in order to make real progress into a survivable future.

I am a lifelong atheist, and a science loving, auto-didactic hobby philosopher and technologist. Pretty much every bit of religion I have ever heard has been either: A. downright offensive (even if it takes some careful analysis to see why); or B. it is a grossly inferior way to express some bit of (usually straightforward) knowledge / insight / wisdom, that would be much more usefully / concisely explained in NON-RELIGIOUS terms.

It's good to see such clear rejection here in the comments. Good that the fight is on. I just wish the article hadn't shown up in the first place. This is Physorg???
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Apr 14, 2011
@ Everyone

there is no comment here from QC or kevin --- ???
uh oh- the rapture has started
6_6
2.6 / 5 (5) Apr 15, 2011
The word "Christ" has nothing to do with "Crucifix". the impaling of Christ was on an upright stake without a crossbeam of any sort, with arms stretched out above the head, not at his sides. (from Greek stau·roo / stau·ros / xylon )
6_6
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 15, 2011
_
FrankHerbert
4.3 / 5 (57) Apr 15, 2011
Crucifix is from the Latin crux, meaning leg.
flashgordon
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 15, 2011
I'm just waiting fo the next Physorg attempt at spreading the christ conspiracy;
Skeptic_Heretic
4 / 5 (2) Apr 15, 2011
Crucifix is from the Latin crux, meaning leg.

Cruci (cross) fixus (one who is attached to).
Governmental property could never be lost completely.
Yeah, just ask the Ottomans...oh wait.
panorama
4 / 5 (2) Apr 16, 2011
I think the 1988 movie Scrooged said it best, "Cross: (n) A thing they nail people to."

SexyArchaeologist
3 / 5 (2) Apr 16, 2011
Wow. There's five minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Let's stick to reporting science please.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (5) Apr 16, 2011

lets stick to skipping over the posts we dont like please?

"Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be nailed to a tree" (Matthew 27:22) -one source of the controversy. I find it interesting that there is so little evidence from the roman era of crucifixtion to either tree or cross or whatever. Just how much of history is political fiction anyway?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Apr 16, 2011
The ankh, another explanation:
"also known as key of life, the key of the Nile or crux ansata, was the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic character that read "eternal life...It represents the male triad and the female unit, under a decent form."

"Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life."

The greatest Lie- the promise of immortality- delivered by the androgene jesus, soft-spoken long-haired sandal wearer with an all-male entourage (plus a token whore and of course his mum, who gave birth without being sullied by the touch of a man) Whatever happened to joseph anyway? Aw who needs him, right mary?

-Loved by celibate (with caveats)nuns and priests everywhere.
tthb
1 / 5 (1) Apr 16, 2011
Don't spend it all in the same place, all-
Kayleb
5 / 5 (1) Apr 16, 2011
Ahhh The Naked Archaeologist.
rgwalther
3 / 5 (1) Apr 16, 2011
Crucifix is from the Latin crux, meaning leg.


A crucifix (from Latin 'cruci' 'fixus', meaning "one fixed to a cross")
draa
5 / 5 (1) Apr 16, 2011
Electron microscopic examination of the nails will no doubt confirm the presence of horse shit.


By far my favorite quote today.
rgwalther
1 / 5 (2) Apr 16, 2011
I'm just waiting fo the next Physorg attempt at spreading the christ conspiracy;


Thank something that we have Flash Gordon to keep things honest.
http://en.wikiped...h_Gordon
rgwalther
4 / 5 (2) Apr 16, 2011
Crucifix is from the Latin 'crux', meaning leg.


Latin for leg is 'crus', 'cruris', plural nominative 'crura'. Irregular third declension.
'Cross' in Latin is 'crux', gen- 'crucis', plural nominative, 'cruces'..
Also irregular nominative singular, 3rd declension. No relationship to leg.
epsi00
4.5 / 5 (2) Apr 16, 2011
Amazing that these 2 nails did not rust away as they should have if they were 2000 year old. It's probably another christian miracle that those nails do not obey chemical laws.
FrankHerbert
4.5 / 5 (54) Apr 17, 2011
Are you serious epsi00?
epsi00
1.7 / 5 (3) Apr 17, 2011
Are you serious epsi00?


Well I am dead serious ( though not a chemist myself ). The nails show partial rust ( or oxidation ) which means that they are made of a metal ( most likely iron ) that can oxidize. Now why would that oxidation stop for 2000 years? To be found just in time for a big Easter celebration. A true miracle, albeit a man made one.

Here's an experiment for the believers and non believers alike. Take a nail in iron and bury it in your backyard. Mark the spot and check what's left of it after 1 year, 2 years...and find out what the miracle of oxidation does to iron and other metals as well. Now, if you buried an aluminum nail, it may never disappear but back then they did not know that.
JoeBlue
2.5 / 5 (2) Apr 17, 2011
Somewhere some poor Palestinian is missing two nail's in his wagon wheel.
Pkunk_
1 / 5 (1) Apr 17, 2011
I stopped reading when I got to "...an Israeli filmmaker has.."
Makes the whole story a lot less credible.


Now that sounds like a bigoted statement.. While some trash is produced by their ilk , there noise to signal ratio is as good if not better than Western standards.
For sure, their journalistic standards are WAY better than the kind of crackpot docus released by others in the region they inhabit.

infidel
2 / 5 (2) Apr 17, 2011
What is going o with this site? PhysOrg giving some twit this much coverage on absolutely nothing and the article about single seater flying machines that have not even been built. Almost like Youtube without the moving pictures.
epsi00
3 / 5 (1) Apr 17, 2011
I stopped reading when I got to "...an Israeli filmmaker has.."
Makes the whole story a lot less credible.


Now that sounds like a bigoted statement.. While some trash is produced by their ilk , there noise to signal ratio is as good if not better than Western standards.
For sure, their journalistic standards are WAY better than the kind of crackpot docus released by others in the region they inhabit.


That's your way to fight bigotry? By issuing another bigoted statement when you say " For sure, their journalistic standards are WAY better than the kind of crackpot docus released by others in the region they inhabit".

So you are not really against bigotry. You want it directed to others in the region, which we all know means arabs.
FrankHerbert
4.4 / 5 (54) Apr 17, 2011
@espi00

I find it very odd that in another discussion you were very adamant about being referred to as an agnostic. Yet here you are talking about (very dubious) "christian miracles". If you believe in miracles you are not an agnostic, you are a christian. Why are you afraid to admit you are a christian? It seems like you simply take on the label that you think will garner you the least criticism, which is very cowardly.

So which is it? Are you a christian or not? Miracles (in the supernatural sense) are incompatible with all but the most backwards theist doctrines. So which is it?
epsi00
1 / 5 (1) Apr 17, 2011
Frank, I don't think you understand me. I was being sarcastic. I do not believe in god and I am an atheist ( self declared ). I was just pointing out that the Christian Church seems to come up conveniently with miracles on the eve of religious celebrations ( xmas, easter...)
FrankHerbert
4.5 / 5 (54) Apr 17, 2011
Oh okay, I totally misunderstood you. Sorry.
PinkElephant
4.3 / 5 (3) Apr 17, 2011
@epsi00,

Iron artifacts can indeed endure millennia without turning to dust. It all depends on the exact composition of the iron, as well as the conditions in which it is situated. For instance:

http://en.wikiped...tallurgy
epsi00
2.2 / 5 (5) Apr 17, 2011
Pink, yes I understand that but look at the nails. They are tiny and they were from 2000 years ago, they would have rusted away completely. Unless of course Jesus was crucified with 2 metric tons nails.

But Jesus, in fact never existed. There is no historical evidence of his existence. Read Hitchen's books. And here we are discussing nails that were apparently or supposedly used to crucify a ghost, someone who never existed.
frajo
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 18, 2011
But Jesus, in fact never existed. There is no historical evidence of his existence.
Is this supposed to be an implication of the kind B => A? IF no historical evidence THEN no existence?
PinkElephant
4.5 / 5 (4) Apr 18, 2011
They are tiny and they were from 2000 years ago, they would have rusted away completely.
Not necessarily. I'm not saying that they are necessarily as old as claimed. But it isn't impossible, either. Small iron artifacts (tools, arrow/spearheads, daggers) have been unearthed that are over 3000 years old, and still in decent shape.
But Jesus, in fact never existed.
The Jesus of the New Testament, in all probability, never existed. However, I have no doubt that not just one, but dozens if not hundreds of self-professed "messiahs" and reformist Rabbis were running around Israel and peddling all kinds of revolution. And it's possible than more than a few of them ended up executed, maybe even crucified. Of course, that still wouldn't mean these nails necessarily have any connection to any such events.
Skeptic_Heretic
3.8 / 5 (5) Apr 18, 2011
But Jesus, in fact never existed. There is no historical evidence of his existence.
Is this supposed to be an implication of the kind B => A? IF no historical evidence THEN no existence?

No, it appears to be an unfinished statement. The evidence mounts against the existence of the character of Jesus as portrayed in the New Testament being a factual retelling, which renders all characters of fiction, which the Bible is, to be non-existent.

There very well could have been a man that the story was based on, but the Biblical Jesus he was not.

Before someone plays the archaeological geography card, New York is real, does that mean Spiderman was a true story?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (3) Apr 18, 2011
Pink, yes I understand that but look at the nails. They are tiny and they were from 2000 years ago, they would have rusted away completely. Unless of course Jesus was crucified with 2 metric tons nails.
Even though you say you're not a religionist you do seem to be thinking like one.
1) the nails exist in a relatively unrusted state
2) they are apparently old
3) there are no miracles
4) ergo there is an unmiraculous explanation for their state which you would (presumably) understand and accept if you knew what it was

-I bet the guy with the funny toupee who is holding them might even explain this in his tv show, as I'm sure inquiring minds will want to know. The truth that is.
epsi00
3 / 5 (1) Apr 18, 2011
4) ergo there is an unmiraculous explanation for their state which you would (presumably) understand and accept if you knew what it was


maybe you can supply that explanation yourself to people like me who do not apparently know if they are atheist or believers and can not find an explanation on their own. Or is it a secret you do not want to share with ignorants like us?
epsi00
1 / 5 (1) Apr 18, 2011
They are tiny and they were from 2000 years ago, they would have rusted away completely.
Not necessarily. I'm not saying that they are necessarily as old as claimed. But it isn't impossible, either. Small iron artifacts (tools, arrow/spearheads, daggers) have been unearthed that are over 3000 years old, and still in decent shape.


Pink, everything I said was on the basis of the picture ( not video ) of the guy holding the nails. The nails looked rusted to me on that picture. And everyone knows ( another blanket statement ) that rust never stops working once it has started. Just remember the honda civic's or hunday from the 70 and 80's. But if the nails have dust in them instead of rust, then what I said is of course incorrect. But I still do not believe that they were used for a crucifixion of a biblical guy that never existed.
Skeptic_Heretic
5 / 5 (4) Apr 18, 2011
Nails will only rust so much as they can be oxidized. If there is no material available to oxidize them, they will not continue to rust. We have many examples of iron nails of old that are rustless due to the conditions in which they were kept.
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (5) Apr 18, 2011
^^ What SH said, plus, the type of steel used in the 70's/80's Honda Civics is not the same type used in the ancient world. Even the smelting process itself is quite different.

For instance, that famous wrought-iron pillar of Delhi does not rust despite having spent some 1600 years exposed to the hot and humid Indian climate: apparently, because it has high concentrations of certain types of impurities including a high phosphorus content -- on the order of 0.25% -- whereas modern steel tends to have less than 0.05%.

http://en.wikiped...of_Delhi
jmcanoy1860
not rated yet Apr 18, 2011
I don't care if the damn nails are two thousand years old and soaked in hemoglobin. It is still much more likely that someone hammered their own finger or even that someone else was crucified. A couple of nails does not equal proof of zombies!!
Skeptic_Heretic
5 / 5 (1) Apr 18, 2011
I don't care if the damn nails are two thousand years old and soaked in hemoglobin. It is still much more likely that someone hammered their own finger or even that someone else was crucified. A couple of nails does not equal proof of zombies!!
Neither of us is suggesting as much.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (3) Apr 18, 2011
maybe you can supply that explanation yourself to people like me who do not apparently know if they are atheist or believers and can not find an explanation on their own. Or is it a secret you do not want to share with ignorants like us?
No, you should realize that this would require testing and analysis by trained individuals with the proper equipment. Why do you not realize this?
FrankHerbert
4.4 / 5 (54) Apr 18, 2011
4) ergo there is an unmiraculous explanation for their state which you would (presumably) understand and accept if you knew what it was


maybe you can supply that explanation yourself to people like me who do not apparently know if they are atheist or believers and can not find an explanation on their own. Or is it a secret you do not want to share with ignorants like us?


Are you serious? You said just a few posts up that you are a self described atheist. WTF is your problem?
frajo
3 / 5 (2) Apr 19, 2011
4) ergo there is an unmiraculous explanation for their state which you would (presumably) understand and accept if you knew what it was

maybe you can supply that explanation yourself to people like me who do not apparently know if they are atheist or believers and can not find an explanation on their own. Or is it a secret you do not want to share with ignorants like us?


Are you serious? You said just a few posts up that you are a self described atheist. WTF is your problem?
It was sarcasm. Appropriate sarcasm.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Apr 19, 2011
The nails looked rusted to me on that picture. And everyone knows ( another blanket statement ) that rust never stops working once it has started.
Was this also sarcasm? Perhaps espi has trouble expressing himself. Or enjoys playing games. You know it is sometimes hard to tell here.
barakn
5 / 5 (2) Apr 20, 2011
Rust is a hydrated iron oxide. Water and acid play an important role in it's formation. Considering the nails came from a limestone tomb in a dry Mediterranean climate, the nails may have spent most of their time dry and coated in a basic dust, which would have halted the rusting process in its tracks. The rusting was probably episodic, occurring only during rare flooding events, or may have occurred prior to the nails' interment.