US, Germany developing secret spy satellites: cables

January 3, 2011

Germany and the United States are jointly developing secret spy satellites under the guise of a commercial programme despite opposition from France, leaked US diplomatic cables showed Monday.

The project, named HiROS, envisions the construction of an undetermined number of high-resolution observation satellites capable of spotting any object on the planet down to a size of just 50 centimetres (about 1.5 feet), according to classified cables from US embassy in Berlin leaked to WikiLeaks and obtained by Norwegian daily Aftenposten.

The satellites will have the capacity to take infrared images at night and to send images much quicker back to earth than the satellites currently in service, the cables showed.

Due to the controversial nature of the programme, US and German officials have decided it should be presented as a civilian project with environmental aims, run by commercial entities.

But in reality it is "under the total control" of the German intelligence service BND and the German aerospace centre DLR, the cables showed.

A DLR spokesman on Monday denied HiROS, which stands for High Resolution Optical Satellite System, was a spy satellite.

"The purpose of HiRos will be to transmit data for public services, for example for crisis management in natural catastrophes," Andreas Schuetz told AFP in an email.

"HiROS is not a spy satellite nor a secret project," he said.

The US embassy cables quoted in Norwegian by Aftenposten cover a period from February 2009 to February 2010.

They also show that some countries, "especially France," have tried to stop the project by every means possible.

The opposition from Paris however appears to have been brushed aside by German officials, who according to the cables, said they were sick of being "outmaneuvred by France."

"Absolutely no cooperation is planned with France or any other EU country when it comes to the HiROS project," DLR executive Andreas Eckart was quoted as saying.

According to Aftenposten, the satellites would cost an estimated 1.6 billion kroner (205 million euros, 274 million dollars) and were scheduled to enter service between 2012 and 2013.

Officially, France and Germany are involved in the common Multinational Space-based Imaging System (MUSIS), along with Belgium, Spain, Greece and Italy.

Contacted by AFP, the US embassy in Oslo refused to comment on any information emerging from the some 250,000 US diplomatic cables leaked to whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.

The German and French governments have also refused to comment.

WikiLeaks has so far only made public around 2,000 of the cables in its possession, in cooperation with publications El Pais, The Guardian, The New York Times, Le Monde and Der Spiegel.

Norwegian daily of reference Aftenposten however said last month it had obtained all the diplomatic documents and would publish stories based on them independently of WikiLeaks' own releases.

(c) 2011 AFP

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jjoensuu
Jan 03, 2011

Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Deutchland...you failed me again...
JRDarby
Jan 03, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
They also show that some countries, "especially France," have tried to stop the project with every means possible.

The opposition from Paris however appears to have been brushed aside by German officials, who according to the cables, said they were sick of being "outmaneuvred by France."

"Absolutely no cooperation is planned with France or any other EU country when it comes to the HiROS project," DLR executive Andreas Eckart was quoted as saying.


lol
NotAsleep
Jan 03, 2011

Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
I'm more curious about the specific partnership with Germany than I am with the satellite itself.

I can't help but wonder what 1944 Eisenhower's face would look like if he read this news. It's amazing how quickly things change
Jotaf
Jan 03, 2011

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
That's not the scary part; everyone knows the major powers have spy satellites, they need to gather intelligence and it's a powerful platform. But they're collaborating with companies to disguise these as civilian satellites. If that's not a conspiracy, I don't know what is!

They're constantly redefining the line and crossing it. The things we put up with. But as long as we have our iPads, we're happy. Bread and Circus, the romans said!
NotAsleep
Jan 03, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Really? Where do you think the framework for the CIA came from?

You've totally missed the point of the joke, but since you went down that path: not from collaboration between Eisenhower and Hitler, if that's what you were getting at
gwrede
Jan 04, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
high-resolution observation satellites capable of spotting any object on the planet down to a size of just 50 centimetres
I'm amazed by the low power here. If I can look at Google satellite imagery that shows individual cars and sometimes even persons walking on the streets, then this isn't much better.

I wonder what I'd see if I were to aim Hubble at the Oval Office window, night or day. (The Webb telescope wouldn't be better since it'll be so far away.)
Skepticus
Jan 04, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
The decimal point must have moved in the cables... 5cm should be about right:-)
yyz
Jan 04, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
@gwrede

"I'm amazed by the low power here. If I can look at Google satellite imagery that shows individual cars and sometimes even persons walking on the streets, then this isn't much better."

Just as ground-based astronomers are confronted with optical abberations induced by Eath's atmosphere, so too are satellites looking down at the Earth (sometimes referred to as 'seeing', these distortions cause stars to 'twinkle').

There are techniques that can be used to compensate for some of this atmospheric distortion, but only so much can be done, regardless of the size (and hence resolution) of the optics.

A favored technique employed by terrestrial astronomers employing laser-induced artificial *stars* and CC deformable mirrors would be impractical for several reasons and would be VERY expensive to implement.

Also, some of the "Google satellite imagery" employs terrestrial aerial imagery.

(btw atmospheric laser weapons are similarly affected by atmospheric distortions)
gwrede
Jan 04, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
@yyz: Yes, we all know about atmospheric aberration and adaptive optics. Your answer was also beside the point.

But since you brought it up, the cause of distortions is near the subject when one looks down from space. This lessens the perceived aberration. Also, daylight objects are well lit, which means exposure times in fractions of a second, instead of the minutes or hours that are usual in regular astronomy. This obviates the need for adaptive optics for this purpose.

After some research and math, I found out the astounding answer: the Hubble, pointed downwards, would see about as well as what you see on Google Maps.

Yet, this seems reasonable on second thought, as one might surmise that the imaging satellites use the same technology as Hubble.
yyz
Jan 04, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
@gwrede, I assumed from your post you were commenting on the resolution of HiROS images compared to "Google satellite imagery".

"I'm amazed by the low power here"

What are you specifically referring to here? Magnification? Resolution?

"daylight objects are well lit, which means exposure times in fractions of a second, instead of the minutes or hours that are usual in regular astronomy"

High speed (astronomical)imaging only 'freezes' the atmospheric distortions present in images (see Wiki entries *speckle imaging* and *lucky imaging* for examples). The same distortions are also present in satellite images of Earth. Image distortions exist independent of exposure time. Btw, long 'exposures' in almost all professional astro-imaging usually consist of a number of 'sub frames',exposures of seconds to a few (~5) minutes, and are combined to produce a final image (total exposure times refer to the sum of sub-frame exposure times).

con't
yyz
Jan 04, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
con't

"the cause of distortions is near the subject when one looks down from space"

The optical depth of the atmosphere is the same for ground based scopes or Earth-observing satellites. Distortions occur both close to the scope and at greater altitudes and differ in amplitude and frequency. LGS-AO works to reduce distortions that occur in the upper atmosphere, but different techniques exist to help mitigate distortions created near the scope.

The point is all these distortions combine to degrade the performance of large scopes (and Earth-observing sats) to well below their theoretical diffraction limit.

"the Hubble, pointed downwards, would see about as well as what you see on Google Maps."

Is this according to the diffraction limit of 2.4m optics in a vacuum or does this include atmospheric effects?

"one might surmise that the imaging satellites use the same technology as Hubble."

Hubble's mirror, not coincidentally, is the same size as that used in KH-11 spy sats.
knikiy
Jan 09, 2011

Rank: not rated yet

I can't help but wonder what 1944 Eisenhower's face would look like if he read this news. It's amazing how quickly things change

Maybe his inside knowledge is what led him to warn about the "military industrial complex"?

Really? Where do you think the framework for the CIA came from?

Rank 5 /5 (6 votes)
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