What makes gamers keep gaming?

Dec 09, 2010 by Lisa Zyga weblog
World of Warcraft is one of the most popular games in the world. Image credit: Blizzard Entertainment.

(PhysOrg.com) -- Creating Wikipedia has so far taken about 100 million hours of work, while people spend twice that many hours playing World of Warcraft in a single week, notes Jane McGonigal, a game designer and researcher at the Institute for the Future. McGonigal has written a soon-to-be-published book called "Reality Is Broken: Why Games Make Us Better and How They Can Change the World."

She is one of several researchers who, according to an article in The New York Times, are trying to understand and perhaps harness the power of the gaming mentality. As the article states, the average 21-year-old American has spent 10,000 hours playing computer games. Researchers want to know why games are so addicting, and if we could learn things from games that could encourage and motivate people to work better in the real world.

In some ways, game activities are similar to real-life activities. In both realms, people must solve problems, overcome obstacles, and achieve specific goals. Researchers have noted that, when people get into playing games, they seem to reach a mental state of high concentration and focus, similar to that achieved by great musicians and athletes. However, gamers get “in the zone” very quickly, while it usually takes years for the professionals in music and sports to train themselves to reach this level.

In the NYT article, some researchers pointed out a few ingredients that good games have in common: instant feedback, small rewards for small progress, occasional unexpected rewards, continual encouragement from the computer and other players, and a final sense of triumph. Together, these components motivate gamers to keep trying even after multiple failures, even if it means spending hours at the same game.

“One of the most profound transformations we can learn from games is how to turn the sense that someone has ‘failed’ into the sense that they ‘haven’t succeeded yet,’” said Tom Chatfield, a British journalist and the author of “Fun Inc.: Why Gaming Will Dominate the Twenty-First Century.”

Some game developers have started designing games that have positive real-world consequences. For instance, smartphone users can download an app for the nonprofit group First Aid Corps, and help create a worldwide map of where defibrillators are located for real-life cardiac emergencies. Researchers can also use virtual worlds to test ideas, such as national disaster policies or how financial bubbles and panics occur.

McGonigal thinks that there are enormous benefits that can be reaped by engaging gamers to help solve real-world problems. The key is to convince them that it’s still just a .

Explore further: University of Houson program earns kudos for improving grades, retaining students

More information: via: The New York Times

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Quantum_Conundrum
2.9 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2010
The average Starcraft 2 player in in Platinum league and Diamond leagues performs 120 unique, calculated actions per minute, averaged across an entire game.

The average "professional" Korean player (and a handful of American and Europeans) perform 300 to 400 actions per minute, averaged across an entire game.

In the case of a few Korean pros, they have been observed to get in a "Zone" and have short spurts of a minute or two in which they may do 600 to 700 actions per minute.

This far exceeds anything remotely seen in any other genre of video games, nevermind traditional "sports".

Video games are addictive when they have absorbing stories, or have nearly unlimited replayability.

You can challenge yourself to beat an RPG in less time or at a lower character level.

You can challenge yourself in starcraft to beat 1v7 computers, or in starcraft 2 to beat 1v4 insane Terrans(I've done it!) Then when you get bored, you can play 1v1 and get smoked by Huk or a Korean...
Mercury_01
2.5 / 5 (15) Dec 09, 2010
Get a life. If you people would just go outside, maybe you could "perform 700 actions per minute" in the realm of human interaction. Theres a lot of work to be done on this planet besides raiding orcs and goblins.
Quantum_Conundrum
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2010
Mercury 01:

Ah yes, pray tell, how are other "options" of entertainment in any way superior to playing a video game or an RTS game? What is wrong with playing a Real Time Strategy game, for example?

Other entertainment options are what? Idiot night clubs and bars like 40-something percent of americans frequent where they kill their own brain cells and liver?

Seriously. Work has nothing to do with how anyone spends their spare time.
Sciencebee
4.3 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2010
I keep telling my friends as soon as someone writes a comprehensive math and science addon for World of Warcraft test scores will go way up. That is tongue-in-cheek of course but I still wish there were more popular and accessible learning games available.
Mercury_01
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 09, 2010
Mercury 01:

Ah yes, pray tell, how are other "options" of entertainment in any way superior to playing a video game or an RTS game? What is wrong with playing a Real Time Strategy game, for example?

Other entertainment options are what? Idiot night clubs and bars like 40-something percent of americans frequent where they kill their own brain cells and liver?

Seriously. Work has nothing to do with how anyone spends their spare time.


To hell with your selfish entertainment. Do you even know your neighbors? When was the last time you helped out a stranger in need? Its called real life, and the work of making humans respectable again. We wouldnt depend on the government so much if people would just get up off their ass and make their own way in life. What kind of existence is it to be plugged into a damned GAME every day? You disrespect your self and the gift of human life.
Quantum_Conundrum
4 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2010
To hell with your selfish entertainment. Do you even know your neighbors? When was the last time you helped out a stranger in need? Its called real life, and the work of making humans respectable again. We wouldnt depend on the government so much if people would just get up off their ass and make their own way in life. What kind of existence is it to be plugged into a damned GAME every day? You disrespect your self and the gift of human life.


What the heck are you talking about?

whether someone plays games or not has nothing to do with work or whether they help others in need.

I've pretty much known most of my neighbors all of my life, so yeah.
CreepyD
5 / 5 (2) Dec 09, 2010
Mercury_01, those Koreans able to accomplish those kinds of figures in Starcraft 2 probably earn almost as much as some Premier League footballers in England. I think they have a life.
It's true though, relaxing/unwinding is essential if you're going to be productive when you work. You can't work 24/7, and games are a very good escape from reality.
Modernmystic
4.3 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2010
To hell with your selfish entertainment.


To hell with your sanctimonious screed.

Do you even know your neighbors? When was the last time you helped out a stranger in need?


Do you know how to mind your own business, how about you live YOUR life and you try your damnest (I know it's hard for people like you) to let others do the same.

Its called real life, and the work of making humans respectable again.


Respectable to whom? YOU? Who the hell do you think YOU are?

What kind of existence is it to be plugged into a damned GAME every day?


Who are you to decide what existence ought to be for other human beings. I'll answer that for you, you're NOBODY in that respect. You'd do better to start living YOUR so-called life and letting others do the same. Man I'd consider what you propose a living HELL, and thank GOD you don't live in my neighborhood.

You disrespect your self and the gift of human life.


Ironic..
Quantum_Conundrum
3 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2010
Mercury_01, those Koreans able to accomplish those kinds of figures in Starcraft 2 probably earn almost as much as some Premier League footballers in England. I think they have a life.
It's true though, relaxing/unwinding is essential if you're going to be productive when you work. You can't work 24/7, and games are a very good escape from reality.


Yes, well, up to $400,000 per year in guaranteed contracts, not counting prize money.

Starcraft is a game with an extreme skill gap, which makes it very unforgiving to noobs. I'm at the top of platinum, the second highest league, and I basicly can legitimately 1v2 people at the bottom of Platinum. On the other hand, someone who is in the middle of Diamond could probably 1v2 players of my skill level, unless it's protoss vs protoss. If it's protoss vs protoss, I usually win anyway.

I think Mercury101 should realize the people who play Starcraft at the upper skill levels require a genius intellect.
Javinator
5 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2010
Get a life. If you people would just go outside, maybe you could "perform 700 actions per minute" in the realm of human interaction. Theres a lot of work to be done on this planet besides raiding orcs and goblins.


You're labeling all gamers with a negative stereotype. For most of people who game it's is as casual as watching TV or whatever else it is you do when you relax in your down time.

My neighbours would probably be pissed if I went knocking on their door and wanted to hang out for an hour at 10pm on a Wednesday night to be honest. Fortunately I know them well enough to know that.
maxcypher
5 / 5 (3) Dec 09, 2010
I love playing RPG's and I'm a math teacher to at-risk high schoolers. I work about 60 hours per week in my job and I help build local communities. If I didn't have the opportunity to let go into a fun environment every night, I'd go bonkers! Mercury 01 is way, way off.
Aargau
5 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2010
To hell with your selfish entertainment. Do you even know your neighbors? When was the last time you helped out a stranger in need? Its called real life, and the work of making humans respectable again. We wouldnt depend on the government so much if people would just get up off their ass and make their own way in life. What kind of existence is it to be plugged into a damned GAME every day? You disrespect your self and the gift of human life.


Wait, this is coming from someone sitting at their computer posting on a messageboard complaining about people sitting at computers instead of getting out and helping people?
Sculpture_void
5 / 5 (2) Dec 09, 2010
The irony... What does it matter whether you like to play basketball, play soccer, play Halo or CoD, or build castles out of sand. It is your life. You do with it what you will.

It disturbs me that there are people in this world who think they are "better" than others, just because they do one activity in lieu of another. You aren't. I play World of Warcraft a good 4 hours a day. I am healthy, smart, and I love my family. Just because one doesn't do cardiovascular activities constantly does not make them a lesser being. As long as you find enjoyment, than you are winning.
dtxx
1 / 5 (1) Dec 09, 2010
The average "professional" Korean player (and a handful of American and Europeans) perform 300 to 400 actions per minute, averaged across an entire game.

In the case of a few Korean pros, ...have short spurts in which they may do 600 to 700 actions per minute.


I call 100% BS. 600 actions per minute? I DARE you to even click at a rate of 10 clicks per second, let alone making them count. And anything I've ever heard about korean players is that they spam worthless clicks solely to boost that number as high as possible.
Quantum_Conundrum
1 / 5 (1) Dec 09, 2010
dtxx:

Ok, well, not true.

It IS true that players sometimes spam keys in the first few minutes of a game while there isn't much else to do. This is sometimes as a matter of keeping their concetration at a high level.

However, I personally watched a replay in which Jaedong attained 770 APM in Starcraft Broodwar for about a minute sustained, with an average of over 400 across a roughly 20 minute game.

I also have downloaded a Starcraft 2 replay in which the formerly banned "Last Shadow" played a Terran vs Zerg game (I believe vs Dimaga) and exceeded 400 average apm. The majority of actions are NOT spam, because he is microing his Reapers at such a high speed to abuse the 0.5 range advantage vs Queens, allowing him to fire a shot with each reaper, and run away within a frame or two, before the Queen can ever get off a shot.

In an interview he actually remarked that if he isn't playing at least 300 to 400 APM he feels like he's playing badly.
Quantum_Conundrum
1 / 5 (1) Dec 09, 2010
OH yeah, Starcraft 2 now has a built in APM counter which also breaks down the APM into categories such as Micro, Macro, etc, which means that "spam" such as repeatedly hitting a control group hotkey would be detected and not counted.

IN Starcraft 2, the built in counter ONLY counts actions that result in a unique command being executed in-game. IN some cases, one "action" acturally requires 2 or 3 clicks or hotkey strokes.

For example, to order a high templar to cast "Psionic Storm" you must either hit the hotkey, or manually click on the GUI button. Then you must click the target unit or target location. So this technically requires 2 button presses to perform 1 action. It is counted as only one action by the built in counter.

Sorry friend, the top players really are that good.

Huk is the best American last time I bothered to check, and I've seen him beat other top 10 players without even losing a unit. Sometimes you have to slow down the replays to see the micro...
Quantum_Conundrum
1 / 5 (1) Dec 09, 2010
Think about it this way.

Your right hand is on the mouse which has two buttons if it's a standard mouse (which is the only thing allowed in pro-gaming.)

The left hand operates the keyboard for your 10 control group hotkeys and your build/train/spellcast hotkeys, and a few fo the "F1-10" buttons for camera control, etc.

Now you say it's impossible to have 600 Apm even momentarily. I say no it isn't.

5 fingers left hand, 2 fingers right = 7 fingers.

600apm/60 seconds = 10 actions per second.

This is "only" 1.5 actions per second per finger, which is easily within human abilities, or in the case of some 2 or 3 stage actions, a maximum of 3 or 4 button presses per second per finger.

If you do not believe this, you can actually watch tournament streams live on Gosugamers dot net and watch these guys. 200apm sustained across an entire game is basicly the bare minimum to be a pro in modern starcraft and starcraft2.
Quantum_Conundrum
1 / 5 (1) Dec 09, 2010
Additionally, excluding the first minute or two of the opening, nobody playing in a tournament with a thousand dollar grand prize is going to be "fooling around" spamming useless keys when they should be concentrating on the game. That should be obvious.
Mercury_01
3 / 5 (3) Dec 09, 2010
To tell you guys the truth, Im still open minded on this whole issue, and really only argued the "youre a waste of human flesh" line to get a rise out of you and hear some good arguments. Ive been trying to understand my younger brother whos glued to warcraft most of the day. I have a hard time getting him out of the house, but I respect his judgment. It just pisses me off that he wont try anything new because I fear that he's going to regret it later. Truly, Im on the fence when it comes to the whole gaming thing. I too reserve the right to waste some time whenever I want, so long as its educational. But I also know that my presence of mind makes a difference in peoples lives, and so I regard my time on earth as valuable. Id hate to miss out on even one life experience. Ive heard some decent arguments, but Im still afraid that my brother is missing out on the richness of life. Hes in front of the computer 80 percent of his waking life, and losing his health in what should be his prime
Quantum_Conundrum
1 / 5 (1) Dec 09, 2010
When I think about it, when I play protoss and because of my unique build order and unit composition, almost every "train" command in middle game is followed by a Chrono Boost command.

Now a "Train" can be 1 or 2 actions, depending on whether I re-set the rally point. If I do not re-rally then it's two button clicks and one action: Select Robotics Facility, click appropriate train button. If I do re-rally it's 4 button clicks and 2 actions: Select building, click train button, click rally button, click target location.

Then once the unit is training, I Chrono Boost from Nexus, which requires 3 button presses for one action: Select Nexus, click Chrono Boost, click Robotics Facility. This entire sequence is typically done in less than one second and involved 2 or 3 "actions," but 5 or 7 button presses.

I'm not counting the simultaneous actions of control group maintenance and unit sorting and positioning, and scanning of my oponent's base with observer, etc, during this time.
Mercury_01
not rated yet Dec 09, 2010
Quantum, can you change a tire?
Quantum_Conundrum
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 09, 2010
Quantum, can you change a tire?


Yes. I don't "like" to do mechanical things, but yeah I know how to do basic stuff like that. So get over it.

And I can also build your house (most of it anyway).

I can run pythagorean theorem in my head in feet, inches, and sixteenths faster than most people can key it in a calculator to find rafter length, or square a foundation.

You'll find I'm interested in a wide variety of things from Astronomy, Cryptography, spatial analysis, computers, nanotechnology, medicine, etc.

Any other "practical" things you want to know about me?
Mercury_01
3 / 5 (2) Dec 09, 2010
Quantum, youve been here since before I arrived in 08. Youre a unique mind and a thorn in the side of more than a few. Im glad youre here.
soulman
2 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2010
but Im still afraid that my brother is missing out on the richness of life

Only from your perspective. You cannot miss that which you're uninterested in. I'm sure he thinks you're a PITA trying to get him out of the house along with your overinflated sense of self-importance.
mattbroderick
not rated yet Dec 10, 2010
but Im still afraid that my brother is missing out on the richness of life

Only from your perspective. You cannot miss that which you're uninterested in. I'm sure he thinks you're a PITA trying to get him out of the house along with your overinflated sense of self-importance.


I can see Mercury's point from the perspective of someone who played video games and poker during early college years. I planned on going to medical school, kept my grades up, but still languished and didn't do much else with my life. I basically used those games as a crutch for a pretty depressed lifestyle. I regret that time because I have realized that I value other interactions -- my teaching job, social life, etc. Its a small regret, but still palpable.

Yet, I have come full circle and will be in medical school next fall. So its not like that time spent playing was a total loss -- it just might not have been the ideal thing to be doing for two years!
gmurphy
5 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2010
I think the real reason games are addictive is that the sense of progression in the game is so tangible. Compare to real life where progress is marked by a few rare events (raise, promotion, etc) punctuated by long periods of thankless slog. What the world really needs is some Intelligent Design :-P
otto1932
1 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2010
but Im still afraid that my brother is missing out on the richness of life

Only from your perspective. You cannot miss that which you're uninterested in. I'm sure he thinks you're a PITA trying to get him out of the house along with your overinflated sense of self-importance.
Hi dick. Still venting bile under phony nicks? Yes you are. If you can't say something nice about somebody then why don't you FOAD?
wwqq
4 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2010
Games are close to a true meritocracy, they have short cycle-times for trial and error and the only punishment for failing is that you get to try it again.

Compare this to real-life. Failing frequently has large costs, it takes between weeks and years to determine whether you have failed or succeeded, success or failure often depends on completely irrelevant things like being in the right time and place or sucking up to the right people.

Life is a very poorly designed game.
otto1932
1 / 5 (6) Dec 10, 2010
Failing frequently has large costs, it takes between weeks and years to determine whether you have failed or succeeded,
Naw usually you know right away. Life teaches that there are real consequences to your actions. Humans were fashioned in the crucible of reality not pretend.
success or failure often depends on completely irrelevant things like being in the right time and place or sucking up to the right people.
Like our friend dick_wolf the gang-rater with many nicks. He acts the way he does here because he can't handle the consequences of acting that way in real life. Right dick?
Life is a very poorly designed game.
It's very well designed for producing human beings, for example. And weeding out guys like dick.
dfunkd
1 / 5 (1) Dec 10, 2010
Mercury 01:To hell with your selfish entertainment. Do you even know your neighbors? When was the last time you helped out a stranger in need? Its called real life, and the work of making humans respectable again. We wouldnt depend on the government so much if people would just get up off their ass and make their own way in life. What kind of existence is it to be plugged into a damned GAME every day? You disrespect your self and the gift of human life.


I play MMORPGs and RTS Games to release stress so I don't end up killing stupid, unenlightened ass clowns like you. Yes, I do go outside and smell the flowers. Yes, I do know my neighbors. And due to stress release thanks to WoW, I am not a crazed lunatic that kills people like you.
Quantum_Conundrum
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2010
Otto1932:

So, you knew right away what career you wanted to be in, or what school to attend, or who to marry, etc, and all those things worked out right away? wow. Lucky you.

Real life certainly doesn't work like that for everyone, and definitely never has for me.

And yeah, "mistakes" in real world can quite literally cost you everything, even honest mistakes, even when well informed, or even when you had nothing to do with what went wrong, but paid the consequences anyway.

Ever been falsely accused of a crime, with absolutely no way to prove yourself innocent because it's five or ten lying witnesses against you and it's just your word vs them? Not only was I not doing anything wrong, I was doing everything right!

I can think of at least several times where something went wrong in my life that nobody could have possibly planned for or anticipated till it was too late.

Anyway, comments like the one you just made are typical of an ignorant, sheltered individual.
CHollman82
4 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2010
Depending on what and how you play, certain games (like WoW) can be as, if not more, social than going to a bar/club or other "normal" social behavior. With voice chatting and soon to be video chatting directly in the game the line between locally interacting and remotely interacting with others is blurring. Add to the that the fact that these games often encourage team work, strategic planning, and overcoming difficult obstacles, dealing with failure as a team, etc, all of which help form strong personal bonds, and I would argue that games CAN be as social as anything else.

I wouldn't say the friends I have made in any game are exactly equal to my real life friends, but they are close... and the fact is because of games I can spend more time with my friends than I ever could before.
otto1932
1 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2010
Anyway, comments like the one you just made are typical of an ignorant, sheltered individual.
What otto said was:
Naw usually you know right away. Life teaches that there are real consequences to your actions. Humans were fashioned in the crucible of reality not pretend.
-Which are neither ignorant nor conceived in a sheltered mind, and at first glance appear to have nothing to do with QCs outburst. Therefore otto concludes QC is having a bad day. Otto suggests video games- maybe that will cheer you up.

Did you see the article on the black guy who was identified by multiple witnesses including his mother, and then some white guy was implicated for the crime. He was wearing a silicone mask.
http://www.spfxmasks.com/
Quantum_Conundrum
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2010
Add to the that the fact that these games often encourage team work, strategic planning, and overcoming difficult obstacles, dealing with failure as a team, etc, all of which help form strong personal bonds, and I would argue that games CAN be as social as anything else.


Hehe.

anyone who hasn't played Starcraft or Starcraft 2 couldn't possibly understand the strategic depth involved.

Some people think of video games as just mindlessly sitting in front of a console or computer, when that couldn't be farther from the truth. They are certainly infintely more engaging and interactive than television or a movie.

The fact is most people end up quitting Starcraft and Warcraft because they aren't smart enough to play it. Once they get destroyed by a D- player a good 10 or 20 times in a row, they give up and go back to playing Deer Hunter, or watching MTV or something.
Magus
3 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2010
If in the end the universe dies of heat death or some other life ending event. It won't matter if you played a game or spend your life helping others. So no matter how many people in RL you save or how much time you spend on a game everything eventually comes to a screeching halt. At that point it will not matter who far humans have progressed or not. So unless you make reality as much fun as a game why should anyone care to go outside and meet people.
In contrast to the above, people must realize that we could be wrong about how the universe will/might end or we could possible prevent an end. In that case I can see the perspective of doing everything we can to help society grow so that the intelligent among us can proceed to find out a way to stop our distant non-existence.
CHollman82
2.6 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2010
@Magus:

Why should it matter if the universe ends in billions and billions of years? Saying that "It might all end some day so the hell with it" is pretty irrational. You don't do what you do for the ultimate end, you do what you do for the immediate effect.
Mercury_01
2 / 5 (4) Dec 11, 2010
In life, the stakes are always higher than they are in games or social networking online. it used to be that if you had a hole in your bucket or a broken wagon wheel in the dead of winter, your DNA might not make it to the next generation. Our bodies and minds were forged in a hostile environment and are capable of amazing feats of endurance and strength. When the body is running, moving logs, standing, crouching, balancing, taking in real food, etc, it is working optimally and the brain is running on all cylinders. The senses are heightened, colors seem more vivid, we speak and understand each other more clearly, and our interactions are enhanced by a healthy chemistry. In contrast, quoth my brother: " I cant really run very far because when I do my side hurts and the doctor said it was cramps" I think it just comes down to how much we value our bodies. If someone is just not interested in going outside, then I feel bad for you because youre missing out on a whole world of good.
Magus
3 / 5 (2) Dec 11, 2010
@CHollman82 - Did you read the send part?

You still missed the point. And you never explained that irrational part. So tell me after you die what will have been the benefit to helping others. Your existence is over. The only thing I can think of is being remembered by others. Which lasts some time after your dead, but then those people get remembered and your influence makes the next generation a little different and so on until the universe doesn't allow for a next generation. At that point your influence over the lives of future generation and the influence of everyone else is nulled out. No one around to remember us no one around to use the scientific discoveries and no one around to appreciate existence.

So can you give me one reason to care about what happens that is rational.
Magus
1 / 5 (1) Dec 11, 2010
@Mercury 01
You do realize that our senses of sight and our reaction time have all been improved by playing action games. Doctors hand eye coordination is improved as well. We are not capable of amazing feats of endurance or strength. Our greatest feet of endurance and strength are no where near top tier performance among the species of this planet. Not even the strongest man in the world stands a chance against our gorilla cousins. However our collective intelligence far exceeds any other species on this planet.
"We speak and understand each other more clearly..." - Prove this assertion because I don't see it. When in the past have we not been killing each other?

Our bodies only value is to house our brains and to propagate our genes, until we find something better. Feats of strength are easily surpassed by technology.
wwqq
not rated yet Dec 11, 2010
Naw usually you know right away.


Twaddle. Takes years to figure out whether you chose the right career, whether you should spend the rest of your life with someone. Takes months of practice to figure out whether you have the aptitude to become a good musician, scientist, programmer or any other skillful activity.

Who knew the best thing for Bill Gates was to drop out of college?

Life teaches that there are real consequences to your actions.


Most of these consequences are either completely chaotic, impossible to predict with limited knowledge and resources(encourage inaction or tradition), provide an incentive to do the wrong thing or provide a disincentive for doing the right thing(this is how you get Auswitch).

It's very well designed for producing human beings, for example. And weeding out guys like dick.


No. Life is very illsuited at producing independent, curious, thoughtful and kind human beings and very good at producing mindless drones.
Mercury_01
1 / 5 (1) Dec 11, 2010

Our bodies only value is to house our brains and to propagate our genes, until we find something better. Feats of strength are easily surpassed by technology.


Just because you grew up in front of a screen doesn't make it ok to stay there. Do you honestly think you know better than millions of years of evolution? Have fun with the hemorrhoids,and whatever form of cancer you end up with as a result of your modern lifestyle.
Mercury_01
1 / 5 (1) Dec 11, 2010
Im with otto. A lot of gamers are going to shrivel up and die the first time our technology fails us. Those hot pockets dont grow on trees. I respect peoples rights to do whatever they want, but I wish for their sake that they could live better. this whole trend reminds me of the movie "The Surrogates".
Quantum_Conundrum
3 / 5 (2) Dec 11, 2010
Im with otto. A lot of gamers are going to shrivel up and die the first time our technology fails us. Those hot pockets dont grow on trees. I respect peoples rights to do whatever they want, but I wish for their sake that they could live better. this whole trend reminds me of the movie "The Surrogates".


Hey guess what. I spent much of my childhood and teen years working like a damn slave for my parents and grandparents in everything from farming to construction, and didn't get paid or an allowance either. I'm pretty sure I never learned a damn thing in any of it that has ever benefited me in the real modern world. Not much good to be said about any of it, really.
Magus
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
Just because you grew up in front of a screen doesn't make it ok to stay there. Do you honestly think you know better than millions of years of evolution? Have fun with the hemorrhoids,and whatever form of cancer you end up with as a result of your modern lifestyle.

I didn't grow up in front of a TV screen. My grandmother suffers from constant melanoma's that she has to have surgically removed. Cancers by the way caused by the very sun you seem to want all of us to enjoy.
I don't get the evolution part. Evolution has no set goal, nor does it know anything. But if I think we can do a better job at making us a stronger species you are damn right technology and our collective intelligence is better than evolution. In the past 2000 years our species has not gone through much of a change as far as genetics goes. However our intelligence/tech has got is from hunter gatherers to space explorers. Evolution gave us the intelligence so I will props to it.
Mercury_01
1 / 5 (1) Dec 12, 2010
And so now thanks to technology, your solar intolerant genes get to see the light of day (or not). And as long as everything stays exactly the same for us here on this planet for ever and ever, we can be proud of our triumph over nature and go on believing in our self-existence. Meanwhile half our kids will mysteriously be born autistic, allergic to the earth, and unable to cope with environmental change.

Humans have evolved genetically more in the last 2000 years than in the previous 100,000. But now that natural selection is more or less out of the picture, who knows what will happen. Im glad technology will be there to steer our evolution, but Id hate to see it come at the cost of adaptability. We need to balance our mental faculties with physical prowess. Pick up a shovel every once in a while, or take up snowboarding at least.
Mercury_01
1 / 5 (2) Dec 12, 2010

Quantum, I make my arguments to those who are less well-rounded. (or more round). And I dont think any manual skill could ever be useless. Even if you never have to repair your vehicle on top of a snowy mountain pass with no cell phone, build a cabin after some catastrophe, butcher a deer, stop a mugger, or grow a garden, youll at least be able to dazzle the opposite sex with your home repair genius.

I personally might not be a master of physics yet; thats what Im shooting for. but Im not going to earn my education by loosing my health. Thats why I take summers off to fight wildfire. last summer I fished for Alaskan King crab. It scared me half to death, but now Ill never be afraid of even the toughest scientific , employment, or educational challenge. Im only saying this to make the point that we should try to become what we can become in all areas of life.
Skeptic_Heretic
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
I think Mercury101 should realize the people who play Starcraft at the upper skill levels require a genius intellect.
I'd beg to differ. It's more a matter of learning very complex rock paper scissors balances and resource management. You really only have 3 things to watch in order to determine what you do. Other than that, the ability to collect intel makes the difference. It isn't as hard as you make it sound.
Magus
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
@Mercury 01
Natural selection is always a part of the picture. We naturally gained the intelligence which led to us naturally creating the technology. We were selected naturally by our ability to manipulate our environment. Technology is just as natural as everything else. Our physical prowess can be augmented by our technology. We are becoming a part of the technology. I would suggest eventually we will be our technology as it will be the only way to get off this ball of dirt. Technology is our adaptation.

Also about the children thing. You do realize that kids were born with those thing back in the day, but instead of us not being able to help them, they died, sometimes horrible painful deaths.
Skepticus
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
Second chance, third chance...is the reason gamers keep on gaming.

In real life, once you are dead, you are dead, no second chance. If a non-fatal mistake is make, it may be impossible to undo.

No gamers ever in history has not died once playing in his or her game; while noboby has ever come back from the dead in real life-games. That's the attraction of games. To sidestep reality for awhile and have fun doing the impossible.
SmithyJones
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
I think you'd find better results if you remove the word 'addition.'

You might want to also try playing a game, like World of Warcraft. I don't play it anymore because it was too time consuming, but it is a fantastic game.

Your last paragraph also made me feel ill.

"McGonigal thinks that there are enormous benefits that can be reaped by engaging gamers to help solve real-world problems. The key is to convince them that it’s still just a game."
MorituriMax
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
Get a life. If you people would just go outside, maybe you could "perform 700 actions per minute" in the realm of human interaction. Theres a lot of work to be done on this planet besides raiding orcs and goblins.


You're absolutely right, for 90% of us we could get a life, finish high school, then college, then look for a job we want, settle for a job that provides food, shelter and clothing, then do that job for 50 years 5 days a week till we retire and spend the rest of our days having our bedpans changed and out drool wiped off our mouths till we die.

And after we die, like the billions before us, the world rolls on just like it has for the last 4 billion years without any change in how it orbits the sun.

Yay real world!
Husky
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
how many kilowatt hours do the korean elite players produce in a month, i am thinking of piezoelectric keyboards/mouse that would save one or two nuclear plants by harvesting all their clicking action, btw if the south koreans would replace all the airplanes tanks and vehicles with remotely operated drones by their multi-boxing macro gaming youth, they would be a lethal force
MorituriMax
1 / 5 (1) Dec 12, 2010
Aargau,
Wait, this is coming from someone sitting at their computer posting on a messageboard complaining about people sitting at computers instead of getting out and helping people?


Yeah, we can see how having a real life has improved mercury's social skills. Instead of posting a reasoned thought-provoking argument in support of his position, he berates and insults people. Wow, another reason to get addicted to gaming so we don't have to be around people like him.
Husky
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
and what to think of IMVU where fat people can escape to an alternate reality and the avatars look like the guidos and guidettes from Jersey Swhore with that cabbage orange tan and "Situation" like abs , or Farmville that helps people from dealing with important issues?
MorituriMax
1 / 5 (1) Dec 12, 2010
mercury,
I personally might not be a master of physics yet; thats what Im shooting for. but Im not going to earn my education by loosing my health.


And how is your becoming a master of physics going to make the world a better place for everyone else or make you a better neighbor? Shouldn't you join the Peace Corps? Or get a degree as a Doctor? Then you could actually get out there and meet new people or save lives.
yyz
5 / 5 (2) Dec 12, 2010
"No gamers ever in history has not died once playing in his or her game"

I'm not sure if you're referring to *literally* dying playing video games, but there were reports of several South Korean gamers whose deaths were in some ways attributed to gaming: http://www.game-a...ing.html

Extreme cases, to be sure, but in line with other reports (of SKs, IIRC), with debilitating forms of internet addictions.
Husky
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
Gameculture has been a mixed blessing for modern soceity, some gamers totally hooked and dropping out while others make a professional living by it, but what i like about games most is that it gives a big push to technology, multi-player games, 3d graphics and high framerates have resulted in demand for broadband internet and advanced GPU, both are now commonly used by science to do large distributed computed projects, so yes, I want my gamers to keep pushing the envelope! Personally I am a lousy gamer, too damn slow! but I make up for it by occaisonally writing gamebots in AHK
Mercury_01
1 / 5 (1) Dec 12, 2010


And how is your becoming a master of physics going to make the world a better place for everyone else or make you a better neighbor? Shouldn't you join the Peace Corps? Or get a degree as a Doctor? Then you could actually get out there and meet new people or save lives.


You should refrain from emotional trolling. I cant even make out what your opinion is here. Im sorry if I offended you, but yes, by becoming a physics adept, I do hope to make a mark on the world, and yes, I do like to get out there and meet new people and help others. Thats why I am a firefighter and a hospice volunteer trainee.

I think you missed the part where I admitted to my first post being aimed at prying some reactions. I was interested to see what could possibly motivate people to spend thousands of hours playing a game. If youre offended, perhaps its because deep down you cant justify it to yourself either.

scenage
not rated yet Dec 12, 2010
lol - I love this thread.
SC4lyfe :P
Soon to be diamond player on SEA :)
epicurious
1 / 5 (1) Dec 13, 2010
It's pretty silly for anyone to decry gaming and gamers. Gaming is here to stay despite what "normal" people would say or do. It is a pastime just like any other activity in the world. Some are enriched by literature, others raid; some people attend religious activities, others PvP. Each to their own vice; we would have better world if other people cared less about what others are doing in their life.
Yellowdart
1 / 5 (1) Dec 13, 2010
Mercury, I agree with your point that balance is a good thing. It is good you care for your sibling to give him such advice.

Give a better opening though next time.

QC,

Nice stats on the SC2. I havent gotten even remotely good at it, like i was with the original, but it is fun to play.

In regards to the article,

There is no clear answer asm uch as theyd like one. People enjoy gaming for esacpism, social interaction, challenge, etc etc goes the list.

Too time consuming on one thing is never good though. Too much water will drown you, too much work can kill your social/family life...

Even the best of pros, find time to balance their life with other hobbies and enjoyments.

Where as I love video games, I always perfer someone to call me up to go do something out on the town.
CHollman82
3 / 5 (2) Dec 16, 2010
So tell me after you die what will have been the benefit to helping others.


The benefit to helping others is that others are helped... all this "after you die none of it matters" nonsense is a pretty stupid outlook that you have somehow acquired. Turn it around, you are driving through the rockies in january and your car slides off the road and you are pinned down and are freezing to death... imagine if all the drives that passed by thought "what will it matter if I help him, we're both just going to die someday anyway..."

Oh, and you want to know why this attitude of yours is irrational? Because it can be applied to ANYTHING. Why do X, I am just going to die someday... Why breathe another breath, I am just going to die someday, might as well make it today.

Why don't you just kill yourself if you think nothing you will ever do will matter?